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[mortuarywriting]

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[kingofthewilderwest]

Hi, how ye be today? I just have some "Dragons" musings to tell you about and perhaps you've run into this yourself. When the first movie came out, I was excited to show it to my family. Little did I know that Stoick would be their breaking point. Three of my family members were so angry with Stoick for his treatment of Hiccup. My Mom even suggested that Hiccup disown him! I understand how they feel, but it felt their reactions were a bit overkill (1/2)

The only thing I really think that was pretty rotten of Stoick, was to say, "Well I can show my face in public again! If somebody told me that in a few short weeks Hiccup would go from being, well...ah Hiccup. To placing first in dragon training? Well I would've tied em' to a mast and shipped em' off for fear he'd gone mad!". He takes such delight in belittling how his son is and acts. He more than redeemed himself in my eyes but you can see where the ire comes from (2/2)

[I am not taking new analysis requests at this current time. I’m only responding to those I’ve already received.]

Hello hello!

I’ve definitely seen a diversity of reactions to how people see Stoick’s relationship with Hiccup. Some people talk about it as though there’s no redeeming what Stoick has done, and that it’s downright awful - a bit what it sounds like your family’s perspective was. 

I do agree that there are times Stoick says things he shouldn’t - for instance, “Every time you step outside, disaster follows” is a little too harsh for my taste. You give another example of something Stoick says that is also not the best phraseology. Stoick’s flawed in his parenting. That’s part of the point of How to Train Your Dragon - there’s a division between Stoick and his son, their relationship isn’t perfect, and mistakes are made.

Honestly, though, I see Stoick’s phraseology about as bad as many well-meaning parents who say something wrong in one given instance. It’s not that Stoick is bashing Hiccup down constantly in some sort of emotionally abusive way where his son feels as though he’s irredeemable and inept. In the first scene with “Every time you step outside, disaster follows,” Stoick is giving Hiccup a well-needed lecture about running outside in the middle of a war zone where his kid could have gotten killed. A parent probably should be firm calling out their child for bad actions like that. If there’s any time for firm words, it’s now. Oh, and it’s more than implied this isn’t Hiccup’s first time disobeying and running outside in such dangerous situations. True, Stoick DOESN’T say the right words, he gets some of them wrong in the emotion of the moment... like parents do, at times. But there’s a discernible difference between a parent sometimes saying a wrong thing that hurts a kid in the moment, and a parent being emotionally abusive (either intentionally or unintentionally, because let me remind others abuse doesn’t have to have conscious “intent”). We can tell, per other interactions in HTTYD (both in this movie alone and across the franchise) that Stoick is saying something poorly phrased in the heat of a terrifying moment for a parent, and that he honestly does want to connect with his son, protect him, help him, relate to him, love him... 

And as far as that quote you gave is concerned during the Kill Ring scene... I’ve seen many wonderful, loving, healthy families occasionally make jokes about family members that accidentally cross the line for peoples’ feelings. Like one time I saw a pastor make a joke about his daughter needing to make babies... in the middle of his sermon. Yikes. Not good. Was he a father who we knew had a good relationship with his daughter? Absolutely. I grew up with his daughter and her sibling since elementary; I know what the relationship’s like. It’s healthy. But was he a father who definitely made a joke that ticked her off at the time and didn’t quite consider how she’d feel with the joke? Hm, yeah. He crossed a line there in that moment. Stoick’s doing a bit of the same thing here - it’s a public speech, making a joke about Hiccup’s ineptitude, where he crosses the line in how he talks about his son. It’s not the most well-thought-out thing he’s said in his life.

But while Stoick is flawed, I think it’s JUST as important if not moreso to talk about the fact... Hiccup ain’t doing the right things, either. The point of HTTYD is that it’s a reciprocal misunderstanding between father and son. Stoick struggles with Hiccup. And Hiccup struggles with Stoick. Hiccup does N-O-T in A-N-Y way, shape, or form, make all the right choices as Stoick’s son. Let’s return to the beginning. Hiccup directly disobeys a chief and father’s order to stay inside - not because it’s some unreasonably harsh command, but because staying inside will keep Hiccup alive. Staying inside will hopefully not tempt Hiccup to try to fight a dragon. And if Hiccup fights a dragon, because he’s a small boy who isn’t trained in fighting dragons... he’ll cause problems. He’ll cause chaos. He might wreck something as he struggles and fails to fight something he doesn’t know how to fight. He’ll cause expensive property damage the village will have to pay for. He’ll probably need someone else to save him. He is the last person who should be on the battlefield right now. However, Hiccup repeatedly disobeys his father’s instructions to stay inside where it’s safe. Hiccup already KNOWS that he causes “disaster” when he steps outside and tries to fight dragons, and yet he does it anyway. That’s EXTREMELY irresponsible. Not just to his own life. Not just to his father’s life. But to the entire village. What Hiccup is doing is jeopardizing the entire village’s security, because he’s more likely to get in the way of a battle that needs to be won, he’s going to need saving, and he’s going to put more people at risk when their lives are already in danger.

We need to be clear that Hiccup, even though he’s a sympathetic protagonist who wants to be accepted by the village, is really darned inexcusably IRRESPONSIBLE in scenes like the opening of the first movie. Teenagers want to fit in and Hiccup wants to be respected by his village. But you don’t just run outside put your life and everyone else’s lives around you in DANGER because you want to be respected and maybe get a girlfriend.

Hiccup’s got reasons for his actions that we can understand and sympathize with. We know how painful it feels to be the disrespected outcast. Doesn’t make him always in the right. And Stoick’s got reasons for his actions, and if you think increasingly more about the context of his parenting situation, wow. He’s got good reasons for acting as he does, too. He says some things wrong, but goodness if he doesn’t have a reason as a parent to be a little frustrated with what’s going on.

We can’t go by excusing EITHER of Hiccup’s imperfections or Stoick’s imperfects. But I think it’s important to understand the framework that both Hiccup and Stoick need some growing. Both of them have issues communicating with each other about what they need and what they feel.

And that’s what How to Train Your Dragon is about... that communication growing. The way in which a struggling relationship between father and son can finally connect as they both want it to.

Stoick grows. Stoick apologizes. Hiccup grows. Hiccup matures. It’s the story of a father and a son coming to understand each other and express their love.

So I completely understand how your family feels, and I can understand the indignation. It’s not an irrational reaction at all. I’ve seen such indignation against Stoick many times. I know where it comes from, and it’s true Stoick doesn’t make all the right choices. But I do also agree with you that your family was a little over-the-top harsh for Stoick. I don’t think that Hiccup has “cause” to disown his father... when Hiccup was being an undeniably disobedient, irresponsible, imperfect person himself. 

First movie viewings are hard. Sometimes the way we watch it, we don’t catch everything the first time. That’s chill. That’s just how it works. Movies should be written in ways that we audiences are on the right track the first time we watch them - and I think HTTYD does that well - but it doesn’t mean everyone always catches that. I get where your family come from and I think that even I, myself, over the years, have come to understand Stoick’s side far better.

Last but not least... I want to plop in *this link* about a discussion about Stoick’s parenting. As soon as you sent me this ask, I thought immediately about the discussion and searched the internet for it. I think it’s an incredibly good, nuanced conversation between many fans about why Stoick is a complex, understandable, albeit learning parent. I HIGHLY recommend a read.