#SHE ISN'T A MARY-SUE!! SHE ISN'T A STALKER!! SHE ISN'T A BAD PERSON!!! SHE ISN'T AN ABUSER!!

[enemyoflactose]

Me: I'm going to become a better person 🤗

Also me when I see someone mischaracterize and then hate on my favorite character:

[tsukimybeloved]

I didn't even wrote any actual story here, one day I will but I need to say this.

How come that in 5 SEASONS and 1 CHRISTMAS SPECIAL they couldn't portray a healthy or decent relationship between Marinette/Ladybug and Chat Noir/Adrien and ruin their characters the more it kept going while THIS MASTERPIECE

Literally did EVERYTHING right.

From the characters (Marinette and Adrien) personality, the way they interact with each other, Marinette not being confident in a bully kind of way but actually standing up for herself, Adrien trauma caused by his mom death and his father having this kind of Disney villain vibes (it reminds me of Dr. Facilier from The Princess and the Frog) mixed with the Phantom of the Opera and he have a more interesting personality as a villain.

Also the rivalry and when they start to "fight" each other on the rooftoops literally made me feral, pretty much like this.

This movie literally did what the show couldn't do with the story and characters to make it good and you can't change my mind, even the relationship with Alya and Nino is cuter because the interest is there from the start, everything felt so natural between the characters interaction and their chemistry (both Alya/Nino and Marinette/Adrien) was so good I wanted to cry.

I gave up on Miraculous (show) because of how Marinette suck (stalker, obsessive, creepy, pretty much a mary sue who might not be rich but is still spoiled and never actually learn her lesson or always gets what she wants even when she shouldn't) and how they ruined my favorite boy Adrien (from starting as a boy who just wanted to make friends and experience the world to become somewhat of a brat, somewhat of a bad person and spoiled too who act childish because he got rejected), this movie in comparison to the show is way better and I'm glad they fixed all the problems from the show and the crush from Marinette side for Adrien is just way better, also Alya doesn't encorauge her stalking tendencies here.

I loved how they didn't make the Chat Noir/Marinette scene when they are both heartbroken and just made them reject each other in different "forms" like in the show and quickly move on from who they loved because the other understand the pain.

Maybe it looks better than Marinette x Adrien or Ladybug x Chatnoir but at the end of the day it's still the same people using different names.

Whatever issue they had with one person (example Ladybug not liking Chat Noir and the arguing after the rejection) will mix up with the other (Adrien) and change how you've seen that person until now completely, so in the end making Marinette fall in love with Chat Noir after rejecting him as Ladybug and making Chat Noir fall in love with Marinette after being rejected by Ladybug and him "rejecting" Marinette as Adrien is just a messy thing to do in my opinion.

Making them just reject each other without making Chat Noir fall in love with Marinette and vice versa is way better for when they actually discover each other identity because there isn't the same mess as in the show.

It's also true that Chat Noir was salty towards Ladybug at the rejection but he still did his job instead of complaining, sure he had to be called by Plugg and I still don't really like how he ignored the call for help because she rejected him, but he didn't know it was something way worse than the usual.

It still doesn't make it right but at least he didn't let the rejection take completely control over himself like in the show.

Chloe relationship with Sabrina and Marinette.

Sure it didn't gave the same development as in the show since she had less screen time but even there they did it surprisingly well.

At the end of the movie the two are actually somewhat friends with a friendly rivalry, Chloe doesn't try to stop her from getting to date Adrien.

I remind you that at the time Adrien was still thinking about Ladybug, Chloe backed away and let Marinette date Adrien despite she made clear since day one that she wanted to date Adrien, she clearly saw something that Adrien didn't notice in their relationship and she backed away to let them be together with the "threat" of taking him away from her next year, but it's obvious she won't.

Also despite she isn't exactly nice with Sabrina she still care as she's seen helping her after the attack with Hawk Moth.

Sure it still isn't a major character improvement since it happened off-screen but I can't really blame them since it's not a show and they didn't have time to focus on all the side characters.

Still at the end of the day Chloe was good and she didn't stop Marinette from talking to Adrien and let them be happy, because as I hope all of you know if you love someone you wish for them to be happy, even if that happiness means that you aren't part of it because they love someone else.

As for Hawk Moth himself, super cool, actually scary and feels like a actual threat compared to the show.

Also Gabriel still did suck as a father but at least he had emotions, the way they animated his expression, his pain, how you could clearly see the obsession of bringing his wife back having effects on him (you can clearly see him getting worse with time and he looks like a complete mess) instead of the show where you can't even tell the obsession is taking over him since he always acts the same way until he suddenly doesn't and decide to attack the city was amazing compared to the show.

In the movie the visuals for that were so cool, the music actually made it feel scary and the visuals too made it look actually dangerous and Hawk Moth didn't felt pathetic as a villain, he actually looked scary and dangerous.

Also the way they portrayed him and Adrien family relationship and how broken it was, how Adrien actually was affected by it and how you can see him actually care more than he does in the show was just amazing.

I still can't believe that in one hour they did better than 5 whole season and a special.

This kinda give me hopes for the other two seasons coming out but at the same time I'm afraid to expect something from it, it might even get worse XD

I want to specify something, as I already slightly mention it's true that the development for certain characters or ships lacked compared to a 5 season show, but here we are still speaking of a movie with a time limit that might never get a sequel.

Still if you tell me that Marinette/Ladybug x Adrien/Chat Noir have a better development in the show than the movie, the door is right here.

If you prefer them ok, that's your business.

However you can't tell me that stalking, creepy behavior, obsession is better than a somewhat rushed but with actual chemistry relationship between the two love interests.

I remind you that despite us adults/older than 8 years old people are watching this movie/show it's still mainly aimed for kids to watch.

I'm not here to do the "but what about the kids" kind of thing but this time I have to.

Miraculous the show suck because it teach that stalking, being creepy, not asking for consent and being possessive is good and that love happens for dumb reasons such as someone letting you borrow something, in short basic kindness.

Not to offend anyone but that's literally the concept of a Yandere.

The love story in the movie might be rushed but at least it doesn't portray a obsessive crush, it portray a normal crush between two middle/highschool students (depending on which dub you watch the show) which is kinda awkward because it's the first crush but also really sweet and innocent compared to the obsessive and unhealthy version in the show.

Does the Ship have more moments in the show?

Yes.

Does it make it good?

Absolutely not, the relationship in the show suck so much I can't even watch one episode if not the ones in which Adrien act like his episode 1 self (still kinda unsure but excited to make friends), when he becomes Chat Blanc or when they focus on characters that aren't Marinette (like Nathaniel and/or Marc focused episode, Juleka and/or Rose, Luka and/or Adrien etc.)

Obviously there's nothing wrong if you prefer the show, I've been there even if not with Miraculous.

I just don't agree with how the relationship is portrayed as romantic despite all the red flags in the show and the one in the movie might lack a lot of moments but it's still healthier than the one in the show and the characters are actually good.

However as I forgot to mention, this is just my opinion on the movie and show when compared to each other.

I'm not forcing anyone to agree with me and I respect your (whoever read this) opinion if you prefer the show, I don't agree with it as personal preference but I won't force you just because it's not what I like, so if you want to write why you disagree with my opinion feel free to do it, I don't dislike listening to other people point of views but I won't lie, I "gave" the show a lot of chances to redeem itself and I reached a point where I can understand, respect and listen to your opinion on why it's good but my mind won't change idea that easily/at all or agree completely with it, at most only partially.

It would be useless to lie and say that I agree with it when I most likely won't.

[silver-wield]

Now, I get that everyone has various opinions on 🎀. Some more extreme and some more generous. I'm personally on the middle. I think she's ridiculous and annoying. And yeah, I don't like her character at all because her creative writing potential is dwindling down the drain right now. Of course the game hasn't come out yet, but I think we can deduce what type of direction this will go. 🎀 Isn't real, yes, but her audience engagement is. Luffy isn't real, but we want his character to be the pirate king. Gus in berserk isn't real, but we want him to die and suffer so much. We even got skyler from breaking bad as the most hated character (well uh mostly for misogyny but I get why she's annoying but she shouldn't be there, we're talking about drug lords here).

If you can like a character so much, you can hate a character as well. I think that's a right. Frankly, I welcome myself to Tifa haters but their takes get automatically debunked anyway by factual evidence. The same can't be said for 🎀. In fact her factual evidences don't work on her favor. For example, her OG description is sus at best, her TOTP makes her appear privileged compared to the misfortunes the others casts has to experience. And while it's no oppression olympics, it does stand out like a sore thumb. Why do you think when people defend her they use one liners or essays instead of SSs?

Personal take? I think it's valid to hate her, she's being written like that, what are we supposed to do? Cope essays? Write essays like how c/eriffs does when there's no proof of HC? But okay, she isn't malicious, but she isn't naturally a good person either. There's a reason why she's described as selfish and entitled by people (tho some would say otherwise, but evidences don't agree). Her actions are written that triggers others. When cloud is uncomfortable, we get that too. I'm still hoping she doesn't become a mary sue. I want her to realize she's doing something wrong and apologize sincerely. When you make a mistake, you have to pay the price. This isn't about wanting her to suffer. That's stupid, she isn't real. This is wanting her to be properly written.

Going off how Nojima's consistently written her she'll never learn that her behaviour is rancid and she should keep her slimy hands to her damn self. Never seen a character so fucking obsessed with a dude who ain't interested, but that somehow doesn't make her a gross ass disgusting stalker who doesn't respect people.

Her fans are fucked.

[lemonade-of-gods]

Erza's being shamed by villainous characters in each case. As in bad guys who are supposed to do bad stuff. She kicks ass and wins in each case (in fact, the way she wins in the Tartaros arc is a case of verging into Mary Sue power level ridiculousness altogether, but that's another story.)

Honestly what else are villainous characters supposed to do in a torture scene??? Nowhere in the script does it say we're supposed to approve of Kyouka/dragonslayer lady humiliating Erza and if anyone is shipping them and writing smut about these two, congratulations, you've discovered Foe Yay, lots of ladies are into that

And I'll also say that I agree; none of the characters are very well developed (with the exception of Gray, he has the most consistent character development and I could make a case for Jellal too)

And ahh, the "realistic armour" argument.

Here's the thing: that's a subjective opinion.

Is it realistic that Erza's armour is going to protect me if I wear it? Not likely even with the magic in it

Am I bothered about it? Nah. On the contrary its sexy. In fact, it's even empowering, especially in a country like Japan which is still very patriarchal today.

In Asian countries like Japan and India, the ideal woman according to patriarchy (the Yamato Nadeshiko/Adarsh Bahu) is a prude, dresses conservatively, wears little to no makeup. Growing up we're taught not to wear makeup ("it's for sluts"/"no one back home wears it, what will people say?") or dress in any matter that may attract men.

(in some places its as extreme as being forbidden to wear jeans and t shirt instead of traditional clothing like salwar kameez, and in my state Kerala (highest literacy rates, most progressive) we were told not to wear leggings so as to not distract boys studying with us.)

(And before you say anything please do your research first, because western society is leagues ahead compared to Indian society in terms of progress of women's rights, and our dynamics are a lot different from yours. Same goes for Japan)

Just look at Indian media for example. It was always the Good Traditional Soft Spoken Girl With Good Values that wins in the end, not the Modern Girl who Smokes and Drinks And Doesn't Uphold Indian Cultural Values (or be sanskari as we call it). If the Good Girl was humiliated like how Erza was tortured, if the Good Girl was sexually assaulted, then her honour would be lost, her life would be ruined and she would become a liability to her family.

Contrast that with FT. You have ladies wearing unorthodox clothing (skimpy even!!). Yet the narrative doesn't punish them for it. 3/4 ladies (kinda) get their man, but their characterisation isn't revolving around it:

one is the MC who's journey we follow, who's both intelligent and sexy

Another is one of the Strongest Mages alive who everyone fears and respects, who wins over and over again

Yet another was an S-Class mage, loves and cares for her teammates and is actually a nice person (barring her jealous stalker persona, yeesh). She dresses more conservatively but she's not made out to be better because of it

They get humiliated, but they stand up and fight and win and they are treated with the respect they rightfully deserve. And all this by being their badass, sexy selves.

Again, you're welcome to drop it or design whatever other armour you think is best, but don't think that it's objectively terrible. There's anime out there that makes Fairy Tail look like it went through a film censor board.

Will I criticise Mashima and be disappointed in some of his actions? yes

Do I still like Fairy Tail and respect the work? Yes

Does that make me a fake fan? No