#Odysseus doesn't care for me simping for his wife

[dootznbootz]

How pumped are we for the Ithaca saga?

VERY PUMPED 😤

...But also a lil worried/scared ;~;

As like... I'll be so fucking sad if Penelope's like, "real speaking as herself and not the imagination/dreams of Odysseus or a siren" songs are only "The Challenge" and "Would You Fall in Love With Me Again" :')

I hope she might be in "King" as it does have a moment of the Viola happening so I hope she's there. 😭 I really wanna see more of her 🥺 I'm crossing my fingers

[dootznbootz]

that WHO in no longer u oh my GOD

YESSSS

Like, yeah, Odysseus is like "Yandere" (joking but also not) because kills all who even go near Penelope and Telemachus and he's very protective of them AND jealous.

But I think this "WHO?!" is also a desperate plea as to who is this dangerous man who is near his wife? A warlord? A conquerer? A man who would not even care about Penelope for who she is and mistreats her?

Because even in the Odyssey, Odysseus asks about Penelope to his mother.

Tell me of the wife I married. What are her thoughts and plans? Is she still there with our son, keeping watch on everything? Or has she been married                            to the finest of Achaeans?

(Book 11, Johnston)

There's not even much resentment in his question. There could be but Narrator does not say. The use of "the finest of Achaeans" almost is a "Did she at least marry the best man? Did she at least marry a GOOD man?"

In "No Longer You", when he hears of this dangerous man NEAR his wife, he is SCARED. It could be jealousy but I feel it's more of concern. As it is in the Odyssey.

"I understand if she would remarry, it pains me but I did tell her that when Telemachus finally grows his beard, she could. I will love her always but is she at least happy? Is she safe?"

And she's not safe. She's not happy. He is terrified.

Psst. The reason why My Odysseus takes a long time to grow his beard is because of that line. He's hoping that his son will take after him and take forever to grow a beard like he did (as he doesn't really have one even when he first leaves for Troy) because he would try forever to get home. Penelope even teases him that he still doesn't have one so that's a silly request and that's the point. "I will never stop trying to come back to you. He and I will likely remain beardless forever." (it's a little funky for him when he finally grows one by the end of Troy. He's thinking "...Shit. Telemachus, stay baby-faced for your dad please.")

ANYWAYS.

I mean we all know that these two are obsessed with each other in the Odyssey and in Epic. They are likeminded and are so integral to who they are. They mean everything to one another. I think Odysseus genuinely does want Penelope happy. As even in the Odyssey with him simply asking for another bed, shows how much he loves and respects her. He could've been like "get in it" even though she had rejected him at first but he LISTENS BECAUSE HE LOVES HER. Only breaking down into a sobbing mess when he believes she destroyed their bed.

"Heaven made you as you are, but for sheer obstinacy you put all the rest of your sex in the shade. No other wife could have steeled herself to keep so long out of the arms of a husband she had just got back after nineteen years of misadventure. Well, nurse, make a bed for me to sleep alone in. For my wife's heart is just about as hard as iron."

(Book 23, Rieu)

Please note that this is his attempt to insult her in a way and yet he still talks about her being from Heaven 👀 SIMP

But even though he's deeply hurt by her rejection (poor guy would've probably sobbed himself to sleep) He still asks for another bed. After sleeping on the floor and in the dirt since he's been on Ithaca, refusing beds unless it's his own marriage bed, he takes her 'no' because he values her happiness and comfort over his own. He takes a lesser bed so she can still sleep in their own luxurious one.

I mean we know how fucking awful the suitors are. Hold Them Down is a disturbing song. (as it should be. As they are not good men) He does not even know how bad these men are yet. If his future self could speak with his past self, he'd probably be like "Yeah, don't worry about the guy who kills a bunch of people, they had it coming. ;) " or something.

That "WHO?!" is a mix of jealousy AND fear.

[dootznbootz]

I plan for Penelope and Helen to be little shits but it's in different ways.

Their husbands' differences are pretty clear in how while they're both badass simps, one is feral and one says his please and thank you's.

But for Helen and Penelope, it's a little more complicated. Kind of was looking at silly memes and textposts once more to have fun and "point out who's who" but realized I thought of both Penelope AND Helen for the same one often. And I was thinking "Why is that?" as I KNOW I plan for them to be different and it made me realize that while they may view things similarly in a way, how they'd HANDLE the situations would be different if that makes sense. It's like having 2 triangles but they're different colors.

I think it's because in a way, it's like they've been "given certain cards to deal with and that affects how they handle things." Penelope is the youngest and smallest of her siblings and likes "playing people into her hand." She's 3/4 Naiad but so many people around her have Naiad blood and many would be able to tell if she's using it to fuck with people. (or at least can tell it's being manipulated) so she has to be sneakier with her "tricks" and usually won't use water. (until she's on Ithaca where she's basically the only naiad among humans) She also loves playing dumb to "who did it?" and won't take credit. She likes making people believe it was either an act of the gods so therefore "you deserve it" and also just still being on people's "good side".

Helen on the other hand, being a daughter of Zeus and powerful herself, is pretty straightforward with her "schemes". She can change her voice and will use that when she's sneaking into the stable to make Pollux and Castor's horses look silly with their manes and tails to make the stablehand go off somewhere else because he believes he's being called so then she can get away. So while she'll "hide", later on when she sees her brothers' faces, she'll openly laugh out loud and take the credit. She kind of doesn't care about getting into trouble and feels things "are deserved and I'm not gonna hide that." She's one of the few people (other than one brother) who can do what she can do and she's intimidating and she knows that. Plus she can bat her lashes a few times and get away with things... Theseus' kidnapping her was a moment of "Oh shit, I sometimes CAN'T get my way outta things" and yeah. :') She's changed by the whole thing Remember Theseus was going to WAIT for her to be at marriageable age. I'm not gonna put our girl through more shit.

Penelope makes waddled-up threads look like bugs and leaves them in a place for them to get scared by where she can watch. Who knows who did it?

Helen will look you dead in the eye as the air pressure changes and your ears start popping. She'll poke your arm and you'll get a static shock. "Sorry! That sometimes happens! 😌 Anyways, what did you say about Menelaus?"

Kind of plan for them to be a lot like sisters (I'm basing this on me and my own cousins relationships :D ) as they're both clever and want to mess with things.

Helen has always had an interest in potions and probably just brewing and cooking as a whole (let me have fun. Let her COOK) even before she was in Egypt. She'll be like

Helen: "Psst, Penelope put this in Castor and Pollux's drinks" Penelope, already taking it: "What is it? What will it do?" Helen: It's gonna make their voices sound funny. >:) Penelope: Fuck yeah >:D

Also the fact that Menelaus is calmer than his wife but Odysseus and Penelope encourage each other to be messed up.

[dootznbootz]

oooh yeahhhh. like. they must have heard about the things he'd done in troy. But have they heard all of it? Have they heard of Palamedes, the Thracians and the countless other people? Will they still see him as the same man? Do they still care about him? Are they still waiting for him? No, no - he is the same man,, he must be. he must be the same man. He needs to get to them. He is convincing himself that he is the same. He needs them.

We love self-doubt on a tuesday don't we

Heads up, I am probably the most off track I've ever been because I'm just all over the place right now :'D Hope you don't mind. I DO make a point but it takes a long time to get there. I was just... a LOT of thoughts and it's kind of all over the palce. I'm really sorry 😅

YESSS!! I mean Palamedes dad DOES try to convince her that "Odysseus is bringing home a new bride" where she's like "You're trying to tell me, that my husband, one of the biggest simps to ever simp, is replacing me?? when he knows damn well that I'm the best thing that's ever happened to him??? You and your son are both scum. Get the fuck outta my sight."

HE'S STILL THE SAME MAN!!! He's just so...shattered. This is still the man who deeply loves his wife and son. Still the man who would do anything and everything for them. If they said "I'm cold" he'd get gasoline and matches to light the world on fire if that's what was needed. (very much "Odyssey version" haha as Epic is...Nicer? definitely WOULD still "trade the world To see my Son and Wife" but Epic is more..."Selfless"?? idk how to describe but you know. not as much of a "rude asshole" like he is in the Iliad especially (rereading it now, literally basically the only person he wasn't an ass to at some point were simply dudes he didn't have a lot of moments WITH in the Iliad haha) if he had moments with a person, he was a dick to them at some point. )

Like this is very much the same man. The man who made the wedding bed (and palace!) that meant so much to them! like, from what I know grooms WERE supposed to decorate their houses for their brides but not build an entire NEW one! Not MAKE A BED OUT OF A LIVING TREE!!! (Odysseus is canonically a hopeless romantic! Wedding Music when they reunite? the language used when he talks about her speaks to her? their bed and palace? LIKE?!?!? you cannot tell me this fucker wouldn't be into romcoms and disney movies He would still be like "just kill the villain" but he'd be all over the "romance" This is the same man who proudly declares himself as "Telemachus' loving father". He's still the man who is proud and cunning and a bit of an ass.

He's just...incredibly SCARRED. He's still there. That's what he's HOPING. He KNOWS he still loves them and is still so devoted. That's the Odysseus that they know. That's what matters, right? Right?! He LOVES them! He's trying SO hard. That's what matters, right?!

Penelope sees and knows this. but he doesn't yet and for once in his life he cares SO badly about what someone thinks about him.

Agamemnon calls him a coward? Tell him that Telemachus' loving father's head would be ripped off its shoulders before he's a coward.

Penelope simply vagues that their marriage bed is possibly gone? DISASTER! SOBBIGN! He's been STABBED!

That's "her Joy". That's her husband. No matter HOW he comes back. She will love him regardless because that's HIM.

Small thing I'm adding because it kind of has to do with it: I'm kind of one who loves the idea of Penelope hating songs about him in the war because of "That's not my Odysseus" in a way. ( I mean it is. but it's a PART of him. That is his "war" side. haha. She knows this and is the same way.) And I think Telemachus telling her to not care is kind of showing how "Telemachus doesn't see the "father". He doesn't see the loving man he is capable of being. He just sees the "Warrior"" She KNOWS that Odysseus is so much more than that. But probably since Telemachus is surrounded by asshole men right now, he's probably clinging to "my dad was a hero and I can be too!" instead of "my dad pretended to be mad to not leave our side. My dad exposed his ruse simply to save ME. He made a bed out of a living tree for my mother out of love"

He's only hearing about his darkest parts and that's PART of the reason why this poor boy is hurting so much. So ANGRY.

[dootznbootz]

16 and 19 :>

16: tiny detail in canon you wish more people appreciated.

OOh gosh, SO MANy!!! I'll go with Happy ones.

1.) The fact that when Agamemnon was testing them all. While Odysseus WAS the one who was all like "GET BACK HERE!" he was at first wanting to leave as well. ( he didn't "go to his ship" but he was pained as he probably wanted desperately to go home as well. )

She sped off, raced down from Mount Olympus’s crest, quickly reached Achaea’s swift ships, rushing to the spot Odysseus, a man as wise as Zeus, was standing. He’d laid no hand on his fast, black, well-decked ship. His stout heart was filled with pain.

(Johnston, Book 2 of Iliad)

His heart was in pain! He wanted to go too! It was because Athena was like "GET THESE GUYS!" that he started to bonk the other Achaeans!

2.) Also the fact that he says this to Agamemnon when asking him why he said that "We can go home" 🥺

A man who spends one month aboard his ship, away from his wife, becomes downhearted when winter gusts and stormy seas confine him. This is now the ninth revolving year we’ve been waiting here, on this very spot. So I don’t think that badly of Achaeans in their frustration here by their curved ships. Still, it’s shameful to go home with nothing.   

(Johnston, Book 2)

"You can't blame us for rushing to go home. A man even being one month away from his wife will make him depressed" LIKE??!?!??!1 SIMP! He's fucking OUTING himself!!!

3.) Also in the Odyssey, the fact that he asks for another bed when she first rejects him. To ME, another part of the reason why he's so upset at her "rejection" is kind of because, to me, they were basically flirting while he was a beggar ( he calls her a KING, something you did NOT do when you're a man. as you're basically saying "I'm lesser than you, a woman" ) and so I imagine him being like "Weren't we flirting before?! Because you knew it was me?! I'm no longer covered in blood! Why are you suddenly turning me away?!"

And then he asks for a different bed. While it's assumed that she's still the "boss" as he hasn't been COMPLETELY accepted as the "rightful king yet", he probably STILL could've been like "Uh, no, that's MY bed. I'm going to sleep in it." At this point, Penelope's the ONLY one in the household who has not accepted him yet. He could've been like "Uh, no. I'm going to sleep in MY bed whether you like it or not" but he doesn't!!! He asks for a completely different bed! One that's probably not as luxurious as the one he made. and like??? Idk... it's so small but he really does care about her and respect her. (This is from what I know historically. If someone knows more and is willing to share if this is bullshit. then feel free to! :D )

I have SOOOO many more but I don't wanna search through all the books to find the sources 😅

19: Current fandoms

just.... so MANY. I love a lot of things and have thoughts on many but it's mostly the Odyssey as of right now, (mostly the Ithacan royal family haha), but I also love Fairy Tail and Legend of Zelda! :D Many others include: Pokemon, Avatar (Atla and LoK), Fullmetal Alchemist, many different musicals. Those are the main ones as of now. :D I have a LOT

[dootznbootz]

hi! im so curious abt whether or not you have any hcs/thoughts abt when helen and penelope found out abt what happened to agamemnon and then later clytemnestra? (srry if youve answered smth similar before! i looked thru the tags and didnt seem to find anything)

With Penelope, I kind of have it planned where I go into a bit with how Nauplius, the father of Palamedes, goes and fucks with the other kings by going to their homelands and telling their wives they're bringing back a new bride so that the queens would, you know, take on a lover or boot out the king when he comes back.

I think it's funny af that Palamedes' dad went around trying to fuck with the other king's kingdoms and it worked as most of their wives had affairs but then you have Penelope, the WIFE of the guy who set your son up to get murdered, and she wasn't buying it. Got revenge on all the kings except for the one who was truly responsible because his wife was too cool.

I love imagining him trying to convince Penelope, who's already like "You're telling me, my husband, the embodiment of simping, is going to replace me? When he knows I'm the best thing that ever happened to him?"

But when she realizes who this man is??? She's fucking FURIOUS. this is the father of the man who put their CHILD in such a dangerous situation and is the reason why her husband is away from her. She throws him out but Nauplius gets to Odysseus' parents and...tells them he died. He lied so at least he could hurt Odysseus in some way at least...Also Ironic as Palamedes I'm pretty sure is a distant descendant of Poseidon. There's something there >:D

But idk for sure how EXACTLY I'm going to have it go down but I like the thought of the family at least COMMUNICATING and sometimes visiting each other. Maybe Penelope visiting Hermione as her auntie kind of. Maybe visiting her siblings, mother, and father (until he tries to convince her to remarry again. then she avoids him :( ). Same with Clytemnestra. And idk for SURE but everyone has an inkling that she's having an affair with Aegisthus but no one knows for sure. Penelope tries to bring up Nauplius but...isn't able to get anywhere (can't spoil everything!)

When she finds out what happens it's a "I KNEW IT!" and anger as she's saddened as she cared for both these people so much as she grew up with them nearby. First Helen was kidnapped, her husband is gone, she can't see her siblings as often, now another person she grew up with and cared about is not only dead but also the one who killed them was another person she cared about! And she doesn't know how Ithaca, being a smaller island as a whole, could help their children. She's sad for them but also knows that she already has so much on her plate that she can't really help them. (also somewhat selfish :P Her and Odysseus are like-minded)

There's a part of me that thinks that, being the somewhat "I will do whatever I have to do to get on top" part of her would just "play along" to get resources from Mycenae while deep down feeling like "There will be consequences" or she would completely ignore and no longer do things with them until Orestes takes it back. She's got a lot going on with the suitors as well so idk for sure yet ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

WITH HELEN, that's much more complicated. She's been gone so long, and has to worry about getting back to her kingdom and looking forward to seeing her family again only to realize that some of her family has done something horrendous. Her sister killed her Brother-in-law! Menelaus' brother!! She grew up caring for Agamemnon as well! And also her husband is grieving!!! There is...SO MUCH going on. She's probably able to grieve a bit while in Egypt (because if I remember correctly they find out through Proteus, yeah?) There's grief for the sister she knew. She was ripped away from Hermione, how could her own sister not only kill her husband, but also send her children away and be so horrible to them?! But kind of in the same way as Penelope, so much on their plate with just returning, that they don't know how much they can do until later. I don't think they would be willing to do any sort of interaction with Mycenae afterward though. :P

Little side thing, but since I love MenOdy's BROTP, I'd like to think that Menelaus, being told by Proteus, a deity, where Odysseus was at, was kind of "mind-wiped" until Telemachus comes as "it's not the right time yet" with the gods. Menelaus and Helen realize afterward of "HoLY FUCK WE SHOULD'VE TOLD PENELOPE!!!" as they care about both Odysseus and Penelope. Also doesn't help that yeah, gotten news about bro/brother in law being murdered so there's a LOT going on. but I don't like to think they simply forgot??? when for one thing, I plan to write them as all very close?? NO >:(

It was just prophecy shit of "Hey, it HAS to be 20 years, mm'kay?"