#Karla sofen | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

quill-is-brainstorming · 2 months ago

Text

So I've been working on a Thunderbolts fanfic lately, and since writer's block is being a bitch I thought maybe I could try breaking out by writing about some thoughts I've been having since I finished reading the series.

I'm also hoping to maybe find some Tbolts mutuals to talk with, because I just KNOW that's gonna be impossible when the MCU movie drops; and also my boyfriend who doesn't even read comics needs a break from my yapping. So, my actual thesis:

Redemption is impossible, and the Thunderbolts are a fundamentally broken concept. And also they're dead.

As of Semptember 2024, there is not a single member of the original Tbolts that has been redeemed. Or at least, if they have been, they're not alive.

Zemo, Fixer and Moonstone are villains, no nuance to it (Karla having been hit the hardest, yeeesh-).

Abe Jenkins is dead. Granted, they didn't show a body so who knows what I'm supposed to think. Still he's under ice for 7 years now so eh.

Songbird, Atlas and Jolt have just been gone since 2017. No explanation, they just don't appear in anything. And it's even weirder if you consider there's been not one but TWO whole Thunderbolts rosters since then (three if you count the one that appears in the Punisher, but they're so shallow and ooc I really wouldn't. Seriously why and how the fuck is Chen there).

The redemption was a core theme of the 1997 series, it was part of the premise, after all. I actually have a lot of thoughts about how the original series handles moral ambiguity as a narrative hook (very well, at least to me), but that's a rant for another day. But as the series went on, the idea of "redemption" just became more and more vague, so much so that nowadays I'd consider it practically non-existant.

The series never goes out of its way to define redemption. For the entirety of the og run, one has to assume that a character would be "redeemed" when they stop committing criminal acts and firmly abide by the other heroes' morals. And that never happens.

The Thunderbolts being morally ambigous has always been a massive part of the appeal of the series, but over time it just became the only appeal.

Thunderbolts 1997 is a story about redemption, and about a group of villains growing as people and learning to find their place in the world.

(This next bit references how each of the runs treats the premise set up by 1997. It has nothing to do with the quality of the work or my personal enjoyment of it, unless I downright state so, obviously.)

Avengers vs Thunderbolts. The whole point of that mini-series being that the Avengers can't bring themselves to consider the Thunderbolts actual heroes, and they're admittedly proven right when the Tbolts almost cause a cataclysm. Hawkeye tries to give them the benefit of the doubt, but by the end of the story he sides with the Avengers, which only drives the point home further. The Thunderbolts aren't trustworthy heroes.

New Thunderbolts and the Civil War period. None of the team members seems genuienly interested in the concept of redemption (the ones who come closest being Blizzard, who frankly isn't much of a character, Swordsman and maybe Radioactive Man. They all end up turning back into villains though, so I can't bring myself to cite them as good examples). The Civil War period is even worse, because here is where the Suidice-Squad-y idea of forcing villains to do good deeds surfaces, and trust me we'll be seeing a lot of that.

Secret War and Dark Reign are...fine. They are, by all means, awful Thunderbolts stories. They take the premise of the original series and spit it in the eye...but that's by design. Normal friggin Osborne took over the Thunderbolts, no wonder they're gonna be awful. The blatant disregard for the original series is, in my opinion, what makes these chapters of the Thunderbolts series so fun to read; especially because the characters themselves point out the sorry state of the Tbolts "brand".

Fear Itself (and I guess Dark Avengers, for a bit).

So Fear Itself is an interesting one. It starts out on a similar note to the previous two: the Thunderbolts are once again the Suicide Squad, except this time they're kept in check by some of the original Thunderbolts. Originally I was gonna bash this run because, from my recollection of it, I didn't think it made sense for Songbird, Mach and Fixer to be down to form a new Thunderbolts team so conceptually similar to Osborn's. But then I re-read a few parts to make the post, and it's way more complicated than that. (Don't mind the hellish visuals and try to hunt for Mel and Abe's panels. It just so happens that the one conversation I needed to quote is scattered like this, L. Although these panels do rock).

The characters are NOT okay with the way things are, and they criticise the circumstances they find themselves in . This story desperately wants to be a about redemption...but at the end of the day, it still isn't.

None of the convicts actually redeem themselves, Luke Cage drops out of the project, Fixer quite literally kills himself, and Songbird and Mach-V are saddled with a failure. This also happens to be the last time the government funds a Thunderbolts programme.

The previous two chapters were more of less about "Hey, isn't it fucked up that the Thunderbolts are like this now?", Fear Itself says the same thing, but with a somber tone. It is, by all means, a send-off to the original series, and I hate it almost as much as I love it.

On one hand, it's admittedly a finale that works. It's cynical, but it doesn't take pride in that, and it treats the old characters very respectfully.

On the other, I don't think this series should end on a cynical note. We know characters CAN be redeemed, Songbird and Mach are right there, so why should we just accept the Thunderbolts programme ending in a failure? Isn't it the original run's moral to keep fighting to better yourself even against the odds?

With all of that said, Fear Itself isn't an actual finale. Because we have....

2017 (and Pleasant Hill).

This is the Thunderbolts' Megamind 2. This run just feels like MCU pandering, and I frankly don't think it holds anything of value.

The Winter Soldier is now the leader of the Thunderbolts; none of them seem to have any thoughts about it, despite having literally never met him. The characters are brought together off-screen, the only character arc that happens, and that is admittedly tied to morality, ends with the character in question deciding to, LITERALLY, not do anything.

Abe Jenkins not beating the most boring Thunderbolt allegations I'm afraid. And I say this with love because I'm practically a stan of his. They fucked this character over in so many ways, it's so sad that it's kinda hilarious.

Back to 2017, it ends with the team fragmented. Half joins Zemo, Jolt fucks off no idea where, Mach-X literally dies and Songbird is left alone in an actually interesting cliffhanger that is never picked up again. And that's without mentioning that Pleasant Hill could have been the PERFECT setting for a Thunderbolts story, and the fact the morality of its existence wasn't explored in the slightest is just plain tragic.

How were the people under Kobik's control affected? How come Atlas and Blizzard are in there if they had their criminal records cleared? Why is Abe part of the staff? Doesn't he have any thoughts about keeping his own friends trapped like this? What about Songbird? What does she think? Is Pleasant Hill conceptually evil? Should anyone be able to hold that kind of power? How would the Thunderbolts, a team fundamentally created around the idea that villains can be redeemed, handle this situation?

We get no answers, of course. But hey, at least we get the Winter Soldier hanging out with a magical 6 year old. Yippeeeeeeee!!!

Yeah, I'm kinda salty about this run specifically. I don't know how you could tell.

After that, there are two more Thunderbolts runs, which I can't really talk about since I haven't ready any of them in full. The 2022 one I just skipped because I find modern Hawkeye to be a pain to read; might circle back to it one day, but it'll take some convincing. As for the 2023 one, I did read a few issues, I eventually dropped it because it had nothing to do with the Thunderbolts, and I also had trouble getting invested.

So, where does all of this leave us?

At this point in time, I don't think Marvel could pull off a good Thunderbolts story. The MCU inspired mindset wouldn't allow an exploration of the admittedly deep theme that is redemption, nor does it seem interested in doing so. There was this sort of "in-universe aura" that surrounded the Thunderbolts in the early 2000s; most characters were distrustful of the them, sure, but there was also some kind of underlying respect most seemed to feel, because the idea of villains becoming heroes and making up for past mistakes is definitely an incredibly noble one.

That aura is long gone, and I genuienly believe modern Marvel is way too cynical for this kind of approach.

And I'm frankly just sad about it. That a series which so much potential had to be squandered by a complete disinterest to use said potential. I still find 1997 to be, flawed as it is, an incredibly interesting story that handles grey morality in such a charming manner. And what's even sadder is seeing the remaining Thunderbolts walk around in modern comics as shells of their former selves.

With the MCU movie on the horizons, I doubt we'll get to see the original team (or themes) appear on page again. The Thunderbolts tag here on Tumblr has already been swarmed with clips from the trailers, character edits and the such (which is also why I'm planning on tagging my future posts as "Thunderbolts og" hopefully it helps), and the future is not looking bright.

But that's most of my thoughts about this matter. So, three remaining Thunderbolts fans, what do you think? Do you agree? Do you think I'm wrong? What's something you miss from the original series and that you'd love to see in its future? Or is it officially Joeover?

Any thoughts you have, I'd love to hear them. :>

#thunderbolts og #justice like lightning #baron zemo #karla sofen #paul norbert ebersol #abe jenkins #melissa gold #erik josten #thunderbolts

16 notes · View notes