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midnightshindig · 3 days ago

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hiii this isn’t a request i just wanted to counter ur post abt being a cecil apologist 😭😭 i know cecil isn’t wrong when it comes to his point abt being tje good guys or saving the world. like with how many L’s mark takes i would lowk do the same. but think of it from marks pov it’s hard to just tolerate someone that tried to kill you. cecil just handled the situation very poorly by refusing to communicate properly with mark. nothing extreme would’ve happens if cecil just have mark a two minute lecture on what he went through. and it was extremely unfair of cecil to expect mark to understand something as complex as this after a simple order when it took cecil three years in prison to learn the same thing. i’m not saying cecil is wrong for having a contingency but he’s wrong for immediately whipping it out when he should’ve deescalated 🗿

AHHH this has been in my drafts for WEEKS- oh my god fucking object permanence- what's that?

ugh okay so like this is a long one, everything under this line is the og draft I wrote in its entirety (written like two days after episode 3 dropped):

Okay- I should preface this with: I love arguing on the internet about shit that doesn't matter, your opinions are valid and you're 100% allowed to interpret this piece of media this way.

Okay so now i'm gonna break down season 3 episode 2's conflict between Mark and Cecil and explain myself better;

(preface: I believe strongly in prison reform and am a big advocate that almost all crime is systemic, and that anybody can be rehabilitated. This belief system colors how I interact with media. I'm around Mark's age so I won't use that as an excuse for his character, but I will take it into account)

So episode one kicks off their fight with Mark busting into Cecil's office. It looks like he's gone through the proper channels, and Cecil willingly let him in. Cecil is willing to see Mark, even knowing why he's there (via Darkwing II's warning). Mark bursts in, an aggressive tone, accusatory pointing finger, all at Cecil.

Cecil tells Mark in a stern, warning voice to calm down, Mark responds by approaching more and slamming his hands onto Cecils desk. No matter how you cut it, that's aggressive. Even if you and I know that Mark is a good person, and didn't come here to murder Cecil, that's still an aggressive act.

Mark is clearly upset about D.A. Sinclair, and Cecil gives him a-- very reasonable-- explanation that he can't fix his mistakes in prison. The idea of these people fixing their mistakes is so foreign to Mark-- rehabilitation is such a non-option to him, that he responds with "What are you even talking about?" Anything less than the fairy tale ideal of bad guys rotting mindlessly in prison isn't on the table for Mark. This is because he was raised by Nolan, with a very empirical view of morality and authority. Those who broke the law died or went to prison. End of story.

Mark expresses his disbelief that D.A Sinclair in particular can do good, that his mistakes cannot be rectified due to the continued impact they have on people. Cecil responds to this by assuring him that every reaniman D.A. Sinclair makes is from a donated corpse. He isn't hurting anyone else. It is HEAVILY implied that the "severe psychological reprogramming" Cecil mentions is straight-up psychological torture. Mark just. Isn't listening. He doesn't have the space in his head for an alternative worldview.

To Mark, the last time an authority figure tried to 'broaden his perspective', was when his father pummeled him into a mountain. It makes sense Mark is acting this way, but Mark is a child. Mark's superpowers don't make him qualified to decide right from wrong, Mark is not an elected or chosen official, and he hasn't even really been to college. He doesn't know where the Declaration of Independence is.

Cecil explains his rationale, that these people are repaying their debt. DA Sinclair could be in prison making license plates, or he could be making soldiers that save lives like they do twenty minutes earlier in the same episodes. and Mark's response? "That's bullshit and you know it" Like, not even an argument. He's just, angry. Which is fine! Mark is a teenager grappling with things he shouldn't have to, but that isn't Cecil's fault either.

Cecil tries to get Mark to think differently, asking if he should arrest Mark. This is where we see Mark's tangled internal logic, he can justify it however he wants, but the fact remains that Darkwing II killed for the same reasons Mark did, to ultimately save people and make the world a safer place. Mark didn't have a choice, or he didn't mean to, which is worse?

Cecil extends and olive branch, asking Mark very nicely to go home. Mark doesn't leave. This is a telling moment. Objectively, Cecil doesn't owe Mark anything. He gave him an explanation, he sympathized with Mark's concerns and validated the ethics of his operation. Mark is only able to continue his verbal assault on Cecil because... who's going to stop him? No conversation can happen in good faith under that kind of power dynamic.

ONLY after Mark tells Cecil "uh fuck you I do what I want and I'm not leaving until you do what I say" does Cecil even enter the white room. the room meant exclusively to protect Cecil. EVEN AFTER HES IN THE ROOM, Cecil gives Mark an "out", and tells him to go home before Mark does something he'll regret. It isn't a direct threat, it's simultaneously a threat and a genuine warning. Attacking Cecil starts Mark down a moral path that's hard to turn back from.

I want to note that throughout all of this, Cecil is levelheaded and calm, while Mark is gesturing and aggressive in his stances, and yelling nonstop.

Cecil says "please go" which, knowing Cecil in context of seasons 1 and 2, is likely a genuine plea for Mark to not have to become an enemy. Cecil doesn't WANT Mark to become another aggressive Viltrumite. He asks Mark SO nicely. and Mark is still in his battle stance, unwavering.

On to episode two!

I'm choosing to ignore Cecil's backstory, since this information isn't directly brought up and isn't available to Mark.

Cecil tells Mark the white room is for Cecil's protection, and we get that line again from Mark

"What are you even talking about?"

Mark is so insular, so isolated in his worldview that he cannot comprehend that yeah, duh, a totally normal old man would find it TERIFYING that you, a viltrumite teenager, are encroaching on him with aggressive body language and a raised voice. Me? I'd be fucking terrified. My boyfriend is like 6 5" and built like a fridge, he's strong as shit and has been since he was a kid. One of the things intimidating strong people learn is that they have to watch themselves, when you're so much stronger than everyone else, you don't get to show up and throw your arms around and yell and scream and point fingers when you're mad. It's unfair to Mark, but it's terrifying to Cecil. And Mark isn't even self-aware enough to know how scary he is on a conceptual level. He's so emotionally removed from what a viltrumite even is that he can't comprehend that he's capable of the same damage his father did to Chicago.

Cecil tries to explain this concept to Mark, and Mark responds with "Okay but I ONLY use my powers for good", he isn't able to even CONSIDER that to anybody who isn't him, that's not a guarantee. Omniman was good until he wasn't. Who's to say it couldn't happen again? Notice how not a single reaniman touches Mark in this scene. This is important for later.

Cecil is banking on his authority as an adult, lecturing Mark like a bratty child, with his hand on his hip. He can't show Mark the amount of power he has over Cecil or Mark WILL take advantage of it. There can't be a world where a nineteen-year-old strongarms a military official. Not to Cecil. Cecil calls Mark on his shit, and shames him for abusing his power and being closeminded, then he shares a vulnerability. Mark is scaring the shit out of him right now.

Mark responds by freaking out more, and the SPECIFIC LILT OF HIS VOICE- ugh. It reminds me of when later in the season when Mark is scolding Oliver. "I'm not even doing anything!!" while throwing his arms in the air in his superhero suit, eyebrows furrowed and his voice like a whiny child being told to knock it off.

He approaches Cecil, and a reaniman grabs him by the arm. This is meant to detain Mark, NOT hurt him.

Mark responds by going "you're not the boss of me" (in effect, not direct language) and SMASHES THE REANIMAN.

I have beef with the whole "Cecil doesn't try an talk to Mark" angle, Cecil is watching Mark crash and burn through the creatures he EXPLICITLY says are only meant to protect him, and offers to talk to Mark. He tells Mark that he isn't keeping his operations a secret from anyone within his facilities, that this is par for the course within the GDA, and this is his attempt to de-escalate. Calm down, this isn't a fight worth having, let's just talk.

MARK engages this fight, MARK refuses to talk. The scene of Mark post-destroying the reanimen is almost a one-to-one of the s1e1 frame of Nolan after killing the guardians. This is a direct parallel. There needs to always be a bigger fish.

and instead of continuing to argue about the actual issue, instead of bringing up DA Sinclair or Darkwing or actually trying to be productive, or demanding Cecil go public. He asks

"Is that all you got?"

at this point Mark is picking a fight, and making it clear that this is now an aggressive encounter. He's demanding Cecil show him everything in his arsenal, implying no matter what it is, Mark will mow it down and get to Cecil.

I am FLOORED by the way Cecil says "I wish you hadn't asked that, kid."

NOTE Cecil calling Mark, kid. he's still offering him the grace of being considered a foolish kid and not an intentionally menacing adult. Adults don't get to be this type of threat, they don't get extended the grace a rowdy teenage rebel does. Cecil is offering another olive branch to Mark, so that he can still turn away and be protected under the 'kid' moniker.

and we get the reveal of a room FULL of reanimen. Who didn't move until initiated. Who Mark plows through like nothing.

Mark threatens Cecil, and Cecil calls him out on his hypocrisy "I thought you don't do threats?"

Mark, AGAIN, instead of being able to recognize conflicting world views or broaden his perspective, bitterly and dismissively goes "Yeah? Well people change."

WHICH IS FUCKING INFURIATING

especially since twenty minutes ago Mark was arguing that people CANT change and that trying to change bad people was a worthless pursuit.

Cecil warns him literally "Don't, Mark, i'm warning you."

at this point Cecil has told Mark to stand down or else, SO MANY TIMES, slowly increasing the severity of the defense mechanisms.

I find it VERY interesting that Cecil explains, in detail, what and why Mark is being hurt. He gives Mark all the information on his earpiece. Why? For power. To show Mark exactly what is happening and that he can't stop it. Mark needs a taste of powerlessness, to curb the unchecked God complex he's struggling with. There needs to be a bigger fish. Then Cecil releases the mind fuck thing. and tells him to be reasonable and go home

Marks response? "We are so far past reasonable"

WE. We are so far past reasonable. This shows that Mark is lumping himself in with Cecil, that somewhere in him he knows this is insane, jumping and cornering a man like this? This isn't right. He knows that.

But he also makes it clear to Cecil that this is now something Mark has to "see through" and not something he's willing to talk about.

Mark hasn't mentioned DA Sinclair or Darkwing once in episode 2, it's not even the core focus anymore

now, to Mark, it's about power. It's about Cecil acting like he has authority and power over Mark, and like any other teenager who feels like their opinion is being ignored, he lashes out

but again. When you're god, you don't get to lash out.

Cecil is TERRIFIED. I hear a lot of "Cecil wasn't mature enough" BROTHER IS FEAR. bro probably pissed his pants.

Cecil explains to Mark WHY he puts it in his head, that he still believes Mark isn't his dad, so stop acting like him. Cecil keeps giving Mark out after out, olive branch on the olive branch. And Mark is so caught up in his own sense of ego and power and betrayal that he feels truly helpless for the first time since season one, can't even hear him. He doesn't even let Cecil finish his sentence.

I find it very interesting that Mark goes to the GHQ, knowing they're on Cecil's payroll. Mark really has nobody else to turn to. He goes, specifically, to Rudy. He trusts that Rudy will do the right thing and help him.

Cecil immediately tries to disengage the guardians, saying he isn't going to kill the kid. Note the repeated use of kid. Kid is affectionate. I'm not going to kill the kid, it implies that he still has some kind of emotional attachment, killing a kid would be insane, it shows he's still extending that protection that being called a kid offers. even now, Cecil is offering him an olive branch.

Cecil tells Mark he's coming back to the GDA, and only when Mark refuses three times does Cecil use force. It seems brutal, like, stuff in his brain? How AWFUL. but also? There's not really any other way to hurt the guy.

Only once Mark has proven REPEATEDLY that not only is he not open to discussion, he isn't even open to peace, does Cecil enact any true violence against him.

Cecil calls Mark an "arrogant little asshole" and calls him on his hypocritical bullshit. and then Mark chokes him so hard he coughs up blood.

You can argue about the semantics of who is right morally, but Cecil made every attempt to calmly engage Mark, escalating slowly and only in response to the threat levels he perceived in Mark. To criticize Cecil for not being calmer or not deescalating undermines the point of why he does it: He's human. He's scared. Of course we can sit here and say, oh Cecil should've told him, or Cecil should've blah blah blah

Cecil doesn't report to Mark. Mark isn't the law, he doesn't get to decide the law any more than any other civilian does. Cecil doesn't owe Mark shit past basic decency, and he gives him that, Cecil gives Mark more grace than I would have. And we know his fears aren't baseless, either, the second Cecil stops defending against Mark, MARK CHOKES HIM SO HARD HE COUGHS UP BLOOD. It's a huge purple bruise on his throat.

but Mark is a child who has no business putting himself above the law and above peaceful conversations. He could've told others without directly confronting and attacking Cecil. Mark could have demanded answers, and then gone and acted on his own. He could've contacted local police, the news, the GotG, anyone else to make this a more fair protest of Cecil's actions. But Mark knows he's hot shit. He knows that- up until episode two- he was untouchable. and he flagrantly abuses this power. All Cecil does is respond.

and still continue to offer him grace, up until he just can't.

Uh thank you for coming to my ted talk <3

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