#I'm not anti-Laurel Lance b/c I dislike KC; I'm anti-Laurel Lance b/c of the way the character was written.

[darklygophilia]

I was thinking. If you look at all the couples through the arrow-verse, O/F, Mon el and kara, westallen. I think the writers threw a lot of angst and obstacles in olicity's way, they are throwing angst and separation in Karamel's way but they seem to be very easy with westallen. What do you think about the treatment of these couples.

1st, I want to disclose that I’m not an avid viewer of the other DCTV shows (“Flash” “Supergirl” & “Legends”). I checked them out during their respective 1st seasons, but initially their tone was not my cup of tea. I’m prefer the darker Christopher-Nolan-esque Superhero shows. My fave Superhero shows are “Daredevil” “Jessica Jones” & “Punisher.” That’s not to say a prefer MARVEL over DC (though I do think the majority of MARVEL film/TV adaptations are better written than DC’s). I like various adaptations of both. IMO, MARVEL is better with their female characters. As for my other favored shows, in general I watch those with a darker tone, like “Penny Dreadful.” Or shows with serious subject matters like “West Wing” “Newsroom” & “SVU.”

2nd, I’m not at all invested in the Westallen & Karmel ships, simply b/c I don’t watch their shows. I do typically tune in for the crossovers, or if a specific character from “Arrow” happens to guest star on one of the other DCTV shows then I also tune in.

With that said, I’ll try to answer your question to the best of my ability with what I do know & what I’ve gathered from other fans of these other respective ships.

I think when you’re dealing with interconnecting shows like DCTV, there’s a sort of learning curve. There’s a few specific things the writers/EPs of “Arrow” clearly wanted to do differently with the other shows; certain mistakes they tried to learn from. Example 1: the negative backlash “Arrow” got after Sara’s unnecessarily fridging death inspired the writers/EPs to branch out & create “Legends” & do what they could to bring Sara back. Example 2: the different ways “Arrow brought back the Lance sisters; Sara was beloved so when they brought her back, they didn’t change much about her. She was still tortured from her history with the League & the bloodlust that she now had to deal with from being in the Lazarus Pit. They gradually evolved her character on “Legends.” This reflects in Laurel when she’s brought back as Black Siren (Donna Nance). Laurel was not a found character due to her inconsistent writing & poor character development, so they put KC in a role that suited her better. A villain’s role, which reflects her work on “Supernatural” “Gossip Girl” & “Melrose Place.” (IMO, the fact that they had to change Laurel’s character so drastically by making her a villain & a doppelganger from another Earth, an entirely new character, says a lot about the Earth-1 Laurel.) It’s changes like that, that seem to show how the writers try (though don’t always succeed) in learning from past mistakes.

In terms of the couples, & how the writers/EPs have learned from certain (not all) mistakes & how they handle said couples, has a lot to do with realizing what does & doesn’t work. Lauriver, for the majority of viewers & fans, did NOT work. We saw, pretty early on in “Arrow” that the writers/EPs wanted to get as far away from Lauriver as they could. They brought Felicity onto Team Arrow very early on in the show, & she learned Oliver’s secret identity long before Laurel did. Plus, Lauriver’s reunion was shadowed with regret, secrets & underpinned with betrayal; all strong foreshadowing that it was never gonna work out. Regret being that Oliver was driven to be with Laurel not out of any real love or affection, but out of his own guilt that he didn’t treat her right the 1st time around. Secrets being that, even as Oliver goes to Laurel to confess his feelings for her, he never actually says he “loves” her & he still keeps the Hood part of him a secret! Lastly, the fact that Lauriver are betraying Tommy in the process, all while Imagine Dragons’ “Radioactive” plays in the background - these are all things that show just how toxic & overall unhealthy Lauriver is. Lauriver is promptly ended in that moment.

With that understanding of Lauriver, I think the writers/EPs did learn from this particular mistake in terms of Westallen. In comparison, Westallen are a lot healthier than Lauriver namely b/c their backstories are so different. Lauriver’s backstory is filled with Ollie cheating on Laurel constantly & Laurel enabling his behavior or just outright ignoring it. On top of that Lauriver wanted different things at different times. Ollie wasn’t ready to settle down, to the point that he was so freaked by committing to Laurel permanently that he runs off with her sister! Meanwhile, Laurel seems to live in her own head, fantasizing the day she’ll become Mrs. Queen & living happily ever after with a version of Ollie that she’s built up inside her head.

In comparison, Westallen grew up as best friends, in the same loving & supportive household. The root of their relationship, like Olicity, is friendship. So, I do think doing in to the “Flash” the writers/EPs did everything they absolutely could to essentially make Westallen that exact opposite of Lauriver, to the point where they essentially mirror many aspects of Olicity. They did the same with Iris as an individual character in “Flash” S1, where they seemed to model her after Felicity in terms of character development rather than Laurel’s lack of character development. And with all the negative backlash with how the Olicity break-up was handled, the “Flash” did seem to try to approach Westallen’s temporary break-up differently as to avoid making the same mistake.

The lack of angst between Westallen vs. Olicity, IMO, is another lesson learned. One thing I heard people complaining about in regards to the angst that’s constantly thrown at Olicity (especially S4 Baby-Mama-Drama) is: Why can’t a couple be happy & still be epic? Olicity doesn’t need angst to drive them as a couple as S4A proved. IMO, the “Flash” writers have taken this into account & have evolved Westallen without petty angst & drama as a typical plot device. And we’re also starting to see less angst between Olicity, which is great.

However, as you said, the writers/EPs do seem to go easy on Westallen & most especially Barry. This is something I dislike in terms of Barry b/c there’s a clear difference between how the writers treat Barry when he does something wrong vs. how they treat Oliver. Whenever, if ever, Oliver messes up, he’s dragged over proverbial hot coals! Nothing is ever easy for him! Whereas Barry is often forgiven for something he messed up n in an ep. or two. And there’s almost never a consequence that Barry has to face for his actions that isn’t almost always quickly forgiven or immediately understood by other characters. Wile Oliver is forever judged & crucified for his wrongdoings! It lends an air of unfairness between these two characters.

As for Karmel, it feels more like purposeful angst which could simply hint that Karmel is not endgame. Especially considering that Karmel is more along the lines of Lauriver rather than Westallen & Olicity. Its not as toxic as Lauriver, but it is just as unhealthy given that Mon El too often dictates to Kara unnecessarily. Karmel is also made to look more unhealthy when lined up in comparison to Jimmy/Kara & Lena/Kara ship possibilities. Personally I think DCTV needs more inter-racial & LGBTQ couples, so I’m all for either of these over Karmel any day of the week.

In conclusion, the lessons these writers/EPs do NOT seem capable of learning is the equality of characters. These are mostly white male writers & they write their female, LGBTQ, & POC characters under a white male gaze! Its an injustice to the DCTV universe on a whole. The constantly silencing of Jewish & female characters like Felicity, the fridging of Sara, the lacking presence of Thea. The injustice of Nyssa losing her beloved & her League Legacy to a white male abuser like Malcolm Merlyn; Kara being dictated to by Mon El & Iris essentially being regulated to Mrs. Flash. Not to mention the complete lack of development for Laurel from the get go! These are all things that need to be fixed in the DCTV universe! These writers are misogynists, so while they may surprise us with some insightful growth, there’s so much more they need to do.