#I watched the YouTube version and the pilot as well I'm kinda surprised at how much changed

[hauntingjasper]

I watched Bee and Puppycat: Lazy in Space like last week and now I'm rewatching it, so here's a redraw of a favorite scene with Fionna and Cake 🤲💜

[urproblematicfav-arsonk]

God yea the SMT anon again

I'll probably be talking with you about this on anon cuz my friends are the "Overly Defending HH/HB" and I'm afraid of confrontation so I'll dump my thoughts with you

Love that I'm the authority on "hh/hb sucks"

I used to defend it back during the pilot. A vast majority of the complaints against Hazbin were either bad faith anti shit about how Viv used to be a yandere tumblr girlie and that the furry........used to make furry porn??? Baffled thats a genuine complaint to this day.

One of the big, actual literary criticisms was "Charlie is a white savior gentrifying Hell" which if we're going by the Pilot, no she isn't. She might be a bit shitty, but she's someone who feels powerless and is heartbroken watching her people die for no reason. She's a weird little freak who drugs people and loves cannibals and demons. She's a beautiful sweet baby girl trying to help.

In the series she's.........out right disgusted by Sinners. Her goal isn't to help them find a way to get free from the Exterminations and just needless suffering in general, its...to fix them? And make them less gross and weird to look at?? I was absolutely horrified and so upset during Happy Day In Hell. I felt so betrayed by what I thought I was gonna get lmao

I plan on making its own post, but the complaining that Vaggie was the "angry Latina" stereotype in the pilot was/is actually racist. If you see a brown woman DEFEND HERSELF when she is being openly hate crimed, insulted for her sexuality and later punched in the face and sexually assaulted, and you think that's "icky bad rep that makes ALL Latina women look irrational :((" you're just deeply wrong and weird.

Meanwhile in the series, this idea that Vaggie is a angry, vengeful person is still there despite........never once being aggressive or mentioning vengeance? That's actually a racist depiction of a Latina woman. Series!Vaggie is quiet, kinda awkward and really anxious to actually put her foot down about things. She's EXTREMELY toned down version of her pilot self, and framing her as "bloodthirsty and violent" when she's only ever tried to set boundaries(that are constantly ignored by Charlie btw) and maybe sometimes she gets annoyed at the stupid behavior around her is extremely uncomfortable to watch at best. Series!Vaggie is......weird

I just think it sucks that EVERY SINGLE THING I tried to say "well, actually that's not what you think it is, you're reaching a bit. I understand why you're reacting that way but I think the pilot has good intentions and can grow from the hiccups" AND I WAS SO WRONG.

Alastor is a deeply racist character. Vaggie is racist and at this point I wouldn't be surprised if Val was too. Charlie is a white savior and abusive. The story is building to this idea that conformity to the structures of abuse IS actually the best way to "redemption"

Anyway, we were robbed

I'm genuinely saddened by it. I was so excited for a nuanced, quirky looking adult show with a good art style about the nuances of Hell and what the philosophical belief "inside of every demon is a rainbow" would actually look like in practice. We didn't get that at all lmao

I think there are good...bits of both shows. But its lost in all the wasted potential and super fucking weird turns in the plot. Helluva is at its best when its completely in Brandon's control and at that point its just not Viv's anymore so why are we still here and not just watching his youtube channel

Edit: just because I'm saying hh/hb have racist aspects of it doesn't mean I think Viv should die/suffer like of lot of y'all think fandom drama should end. She needs therapy, and to think about why these things up come in her writing. Everyone fucks up and accidentally does something racist or misogynistic. The point is to face that, grow from it, and try to cause less harm in the future.