#I understand this isn't all spop stans

[spopsalt]

Spop stans: "The anti spop community is so toxic!" Also Spop stans:

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

Not really an ask, but I just wanted to thank you and all the other critics that speak about how much of an actual shitshow SPOP was when dealing with C*tra.

For the longest time, I shipped C*tr*dora because I was an impressionable kid who saw them kiss and didn't realize that Canon ships can suck and still be Canon. I didn't Stan C*tra or anything, but I did try defending her one time to my irl friends and my only arguments were that:

A) She's Adora's girlfriend so there has to be good in her (yeah no)

And B) She was "redeemed".

But what actually got me second-guessing C*tra and her fans was when I saw a post about the S4 Glimmadora argument and saw hundreds of comments going; "Glimmer is so selfish!" "Glimmer is a horrible person!" "This is why C*tra is better than Glimmer."

And I was and still am the biggest Glimmer fan, and it made me upset. I mean, Glimmer literally lost her mom and was given basically no time to grieve. It didn't excuse her actions, but everyone kept talking about her like she was a villain trying to destroy the world. And then I thought;

'Didn't C*tra actually destroy the world?' And that got me in this deep rabbit hole of realizing C*tra and C*tr*dora is abusive in so many ways and telling myself I was crazy because so many people were defending her. But then I saw one of your posts, scrolled through your blog and realized; 'Oh, I'm not crazy. C*tra is a horrible person and her stans are just delusional.' It even made me realize how fucked up the show was in so many other aspects; The incest, the leash, the fact that the only enby character was a lizard, and so much more.

So thank you and all the other critics out there that might help give people validation or help people open their eyes.

Thank you. 💙

i'm glad you found my blog and other critic blogs helpful! i know that anti blogs generally have a reputation for nitpicking on unnecessary details and ruining the fun, but that was never what i wanted to do with mine. i didn't expect all of c//a stans to immediately understand my point and stop shipping c//a (most of them don't even pay attention to what we're saying, let alone try to understand) but getting asks like yours really renews my faith in humanity.

i try not to judge what other people ship or to project my moral compass too much into fiction but the problem with c//a isn't that it's toxic, it's the fact that it's heavily romanticized. if they merely wanted to explore an abusive relationship in fiction, that's not a problem. it's quite healthy, actually. but the fact that they imply that this is a healthy relationship and a lot of the fans defend this ship to hell and back is really concerning.

and yes, like you said, it's really hypocritical of fans to villanize glimmer so much for two mistakes that the narrative held her accountable for, while coddling catra who had to face exactly zero consequences for her actions.

i completely understand how you felt, it can often be daunting to be the only one to actually see things as they are, instead of blindly believing what the writers say because the rest of the fandom does. i didn't ship c//a at all but i felt the same way you did, seeing everyone praise the ship and wondering if i'm just being overdramatic.

it's only after i found an anti c//a account on instagram (@anticatradora ; they go into detail with a lot of the scenes in the show, if you want to check out their account!) that i realized that i was right, and this is actually a really weird and problematic ship that people are worshipping just because they're starved of queer representation. i understand wanting to see people like you represented in media, but there are a lot of characters and ships who are much better written and better developed than c//a.

anyway all of this to say, i'm proud of you for realizing the nuance of this situation in this hivemind of a fandom. it's always better to be open to criticism than to blindly defend a show just because you like it. thank you for this ask, it made my day! 💙

[adorawasright]

i feel like at this point, catra stans are deliberately misunderstanding our point. they keep saying that we just hate seeing abuse victims getting a happy ending and that we can't fathom the idea of a bad person changing for the better, when most antis i've seen has said multiple times that they just wanted a better redemption arc for catra.

liking or sympathizing with someone doesn't mean that you have to excuse all of their actions and let them get away with anything. you can like catra and still hold her accountable for her actions but it seems like catra simps refuse to understand this, and instead act like we're villains who just want catra to suffer and die.

Yeah, I for one relate to Catra and I was very disappointed with her redemption. It was cheap and was resumed to "forgiveness". First, no one should be forced to forgive someone that hurt them; it's their choice alone. Second, if they choose to forgive, they don't have to be in that person's life. It's a lot more complex than just saying "I'm sowwy :(" "I forgive you :) now we're buddies!". Forgiveness can be really hard.

Catra's apologies are INCREDIBLY vague, like, come on. She only says "I'm sorry for everything" to Adora - and Catra still treats Adora like shit. I don't remember exactly her apology to Entrapta but I know it was brief and didn't detail anything (Entrapta mentioned the events of s3 but she didn't seem hurt about being sent to Beast Island or like. Catra manipulating Entrapta into believing she was abandoned). Scorpia, then? Catra didn't even say the word "sorry". Scorpia just instantly forgave her despite the fact she wasn't even there for Catra's "progress". She was chipped the whole time. Same for Micah and Mermista.

The show refused any accountability, which should be essential to a redemption arc. Not to beat a dead horse, but there's a reason why Zuko's arc is so remarkable. We joke about the "fieldtrips", but Zuko helps each person individually, first Aang, then Sokka, and finally Katara, the person he most personally betrayed. When Zuko first tries to join the Gaang, they reject him. They don't trust him. And they're right for it! So Zuko proves that he's better over and over again, until he gains their trust in a natural way. While Iroh isn't there to see all of it, he can tell by Zuko's mere return to his uncle and his remorse alone that his nephew found his path again. Also note that Zuko doesn't make excuses, he just straight up says, "I'm so sorry and ashamed for what I did", and implies he would do anything to gain Iroh's trust again. Similarly to how he approached Katara in The Southern Raiders.

SPOP, however, only tells us Catra is "working" to be better. When she really doesn't. Too bad most of the fandom eats all that up without giving a second thought. Then they accuse us of hating abuse victims or mentally ill people, when I'm pretty sure a lot of us are both of those things.

[blonde-and-cat-suc]

choose violence ask game: 3, 12 and 22?

p.s. love your blog, please keep spreading the truth!

And I love blogging <3!!! I do it for the girls and the gays.

>>>><<<<

Answers under the cut . . . This is gonna be a long one.

3) Screenshot or description of the worse take you've seen on tumblr?

Okay, so, the only problem with this one is that I've literally seen too many to count. But the one that I'd often seen and had the most visceral reaction to were definitely the longer, well articulated analysis posts from stans that did SO MUCH bending and twisting to claim Adora being equally toxic/(and or abusive) to Catra. Which, obviously, I also spent time analyzing. Trying my best to understand what was going on. And you know what? I get it. I don't agree. But I get it. Adora and Catra grew up under the same circumstances, so yeah, they wouldn't be entirely innocent of picking up bad habits from their childhood. Realistically. Fine.

But implying that Adora is worse? Worse than Catra?

...

Anyway, I've suffered from my own self-inflicted torture in the past. I wish I hadn't spent so much time reading stan analysis the way I did, but... Here we are.

And that's just on Tumblr. I don't believe that other social media/forum sites are better or worse about c//a and SPOP, but I have seen worse in The Wilds. (At least on Tumblr there's the filtering options. Everywhere else, good luck).

12) The unpopular character that you actually like, and why more people should like them?

Guys. I LOVE SWIFT WIND. I FUCKING LOVE SWIFT WIND I DON'T CARE THAT HE'S ANNOYING THEY'RE ALL FUCKING ANNOYING!!!

First of all, yes, yes, yes, Swift Wind is horrendous wasted potential (surprise, surprise), and yes, of course, I'm still pissed over it. Those scenes where he's so loyal and kind to Adora, and she, having no other point of reference for a friend, much less a resourceful friend... Like, awwhh. Plus, he makes it very clear that he has his own will and isn't just mindlessly following Adora around like a god-honest horse would. He has his own agenda. He doesn't have to go into battle with Adora, and doesn't gain too much from risking his life to help her and her friends in the short term, but Swift Wind does it anyway. He's interested and invested in Adora, personally, anyway. He wants to be there for her and support her growth as a person.

And Adora deserves all of those amazing, raw, sappy, fairytale friendships!

I DON'T CARE THAT HE'S LITERALLY A HORSE HE IS STILL FUNCTIONALLY A HUMAN BEING. THEY ARE BESTIES. THEY LITERALLY HAVE A MY LITTLE PONY FRIENDSHIP IS MAGIC LINK GOING ON. THEY SHOULD HAVE CONSIDERED SWIFTIE TO BE APART OF THE BEST FRIENDS SQUAD, I ACTUALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY HE ISN'T.

MORE LOVE FOR SWIFT WIND!!!

22) Favorite part of canon that everyone else ignores?

In my experience, this is the type of fandom that cultivates, um, extreme niches, for lack of a better term. As in, literally what my blog is compared to a "stan's" blog. They're like. Different SPOP fans everywhere, so I don't truly believe that there's a portion of this show that is genuinely ignored... There's someone out there that liked even the tiniest, unimportant fraction of this show. Just got to go find them. (Hell, I know people that love, like, Tall Star specifically, out of all the other characters. Nothing has gone totally unnoticed, which is something I really love about the fanbase as a whole, despite everything).

Anyway, to keep it short, my favorite "underappreciated" parts are hm... Maybe the parts where Adora gets to explore the world around her? And not in a super plot related way. I know that the BFS goofing off so much isn't totally ignored. But I like to see that Adora especially was still learning new things everyday in canon, just like, randomly. Nothing to do with the Horde or the Rebellion. Just. She should be excited for the new world around her, dude. Those are pretty rare moments in the show, actually. Wish there were more.

[featherymainffins]

I repeat this every few months but one thing that The Owl House just doe snot get enough credit for is the fact that a huge percentage of is cast are people who are middle-aged+.

It is uncommon for stories in general to feature older people in important roles, and it is even rarer for children's cartoons. Sure, it is, of course, understandable that the main characters are kids since that is the target audience, but that doesn't mean that there have to be no older people in the cast.

Like, if you look at a lot of popular cartoons, most of them have very few middle-aged or older characters who are important and a stable part of the main cast.

Gravity Falls has Stan and later also Ford.

I...know nothing about Adventure Time.

Steven Universe has Greg, who is like...well, he IS there but I am not sure if I would even count him as a main character??? The main characters are Steven, Pearl, Garnet, Amethyst and Connie. And the other characters who get a lot of attention are Lars and Sadie. And a lot of the supporting characters are teens. Rose is not counted as a main character because she has a completely special role that cannot be categorised. Also I do not count the gems as middle-aged+ because they are gems.

Infinity Train would have had Amelia, to its credit. Other than her, everyone who is a main character is either a child or a teen...ok actually the Cat might count as a stable supporting character and I guess she does count as middle-aged???

SPOP has Hordak I guess??? Possibly Entrapta??? Iirc nobody knows how old Entrapta is so idk if she's actually middle-aged or like...just an adult.

The Owl House goes absolutely "Fuck it we ball" as basically everyone who is not the small ensemble of kids we have is a middle-aged+ adult, and many of them have very important roles that are given a lot of attention. I would count not only Eda but also Lilith as main characters. The cast develops over the course of the show, but at the start, Luz is the main character and Eda is pretty much the second main character (if we do not count characters who have antagonistic roles at the start, because if we did, then Amity would be counted), which is pretty fucking balling by itself.

Then, over the course of the show, the mainest cast is composed of Luz, Willow, Gus, Amity and Hunter when it comes to the kids, King (I am...not sure how to count him), and Eda, Lilith and Camila form the main adults, who are all middle-aged.

There are also many supporting recurring characters who are middle-aged and older. Not all of them have positive roles, but all of them have a story that is explored. Amity's parents, Alador and Odalia, come to mind first, since both of them have a lot of stage time and their own arcs. Then, of course, there is Raine, who is not only middle-aged but also nonbinary, and they have a whole story going on with Eda, which is incredibly balling in its own right.

You see, usually, when a cartoon has a romantic plot revolving around a middle-aged supporting character, it's a quick one-off thing that is like...the episode of the week. Eda and Raine are a pretty memorable part of the plot and their relationship is crucial for both characters.

Iirc Darius is as old as Raine and Eda, so that is another middle-aged recurring supporting character who is pretty important. A more minor but still recurring older character is principal Bump, who is pretty memorable and he is shown as very capable depsite his age, which reminds me of that one Dark Souls screenshot:

I already mentioned Odalia, but when we go over the other antagonistic characters, we see that a chunk of them are middle-aged+ as well, though these are mostly minor roles we're talking about. For example, we have Adrian, then we have Terra,...probably Jacob? And possibly Kikimora??? Idk. No idea about her age actually, I can't remember.

Well and of course when we're talking about antagonists, there's Belos himself. Though that isn't really something revolutionary because cartoons do tend to feature adults, including old adults, as main villains. Because I guess it'd be kinda weird to have kids beating up kids. And it's easier to find a reason for someone older to have a fucked up gripe. Like he gets counted o the percentage but he isn't like...something fresh in terms of the role he's in.

[antispopausandstuff]

yeah, the logic especially makes absolutely 0 sense.

like, army and everything aside, where does she even get those outfits from?

from the very first episode, Catra stands out cuz she isn't wearing anything like the uniform that everyone else is, with the exception of Adora, though her uniform still looks kinda like the cadet one but modified. we could reason that SW gave her that outfit.

but with Catra? there's no in-world reason for it.

you could argue that Nate wanted you to pay attention to Catra in comparison to the other cadets, to show she's more important, writing wise, but her early teens outfit still did that just fine. she was wearing the uniform, but it had a slightly more scrappy look to it.

and, as someone who has a lot of trial and error in character design, there are plenty good designers that know how to still make a character look different, even if they're in similar get-up as everyone else. there's no actual reason for Catra to have a different outfit from the one she had as a younger teen. there just isn't.

as for the other outfits:

where on etheria could either her or Scorpia get fancy outfits? Scorpia, i could justify with her having a lot of money and more leeway, but the show never displays that.

the winter one makes sense, i guess, but even so, the Kingdom of Snows and the Horde didn't seem to have, like, any animosity with each other whatsoever, so why would the Horde be interested in seasonal clothes? Catra obviously isn't above stealing.

Crimson Waste is literally just their normal outfits with a jacket, not sure if you can even consider that a different outfit. this is just for her to look 'cool' and 'badass'.

yeah, i'm gonna think she's so cool in that jacket when she talks like an edgy 12 yr old obsessed with gachatube, early 2010s tumblr, and r/im14andthisisdeep.

s4 outfit, i don't hate it, but it just feels like more fanservice and i don't understand why it looks the way it does. why does she have one sleeve? people made up that it was because of the corruption from s3, but that never happened. it literally never happened.

i know you don't have to be 100% practical when designing a character, i'm honestly just nitpicking because the stans piss me off and i never understand why Catra doesn't wear armor. i mean, we know she has plot armor, but-

the... is it sleepwear? i dunno, but i'm p sure that she wore a similar outfit in the beginning of s4. writing wise, doesn't make sense, but whatever, it's fine, it's just sleepwear.

now her s5 outfit just makes me mad, cuz where the hell did she get it? if you think about it too much, it gives a creepy implication that one of the others somehow found her s4 outfit and kept it ( and knowing stans, they'd likely make it so that Adora found it ). but then you'd have to remember that this is SPOP and Nate is the main writer of it and remember that this is just yet another continuity error ( i think i'm using that term right- ).

i actually hate the space outfits, they're so fucking ugly, get them out of my fucking fa-

people call this the future, but like...

this is Adora's dream. not her seeing the future. and even then, it's a really strange one, cuz it implies a few details that just don't match with what we know?

Glimbow, for one thing. i don't think Adora was rooting for them. i mean, she'd be happy for them, i think, but that woulda come outta left field for her, like it did for the rest of us.

the other thing is Scorpia's party and how she'll 'kill them' if they're late. i feel like this does kinda make sense, but only if Adora still held the image of Scorpia from s1-s4 to the one now. which i think would be giving the writers too much credit.

i don't know why they wrote in that comment, but it doesn't really fit Scorpia. we all know she's not necessarily the most violent person, though she's not the most docile, either, so Bow saying that just never made sense to me.

final thing is people assuming that these 'dream' outfits were ones they'd wear all the time in the future. and, Nate seems to agree, considering that one illustration, that's just kinda silly? i feel like Catra definitely wouldn't look as put together, especially since she's apparently still a child and refuses to get her hair brushed.

at least Adora still acknowledges that she's a brat.

and i'm gonna be so fr, i hate dream Bow's look, why the fuck-

so, yeah, to the surprise of no one, most, if not all, of these outfits don't make in-world sense, yet they exist anyway because Nate decided that a war criminal that runs on ration bars deserves to 'look hot // badass' more than the main fucking protagonist.

this make me a little upset

and the problem is that not only adora never changes her base outfit, every other princess used only 2 other clothes

but they want me to belive the catgirl had a full wardrobe while living in the fucking fright zone where the soldiers only had ration bars to eat

Yeah, that makes no sense what so ever. It also felt weird that throughout the series Adora was still wearing her OG outfit from when she was in the Horde. Like, did she ever think, "Hey, maybe I should change out of the outfit I was wearing when I was in a fascist army? Nah."

Just goes to show who's the creator's favorite, I guess...

[mimdecisive]

one reblog of my post had 'who hurt you mim' to which I was curious who thought they had the right to nickname me, leading me to apples' blog because of course they did, and wow. there's actually people talking about me. behind my back??? that's hilarious.

love to see people missing the point on my rwde criticism, though. it's Weird when a primarily male writing team decides to give all the women characters Huge Bazongas and revealing clothes. Kind of objectifying, with the fact every woman character has to look Cutesy and have those Big Eyes and High Heels but the men don't get the same treatment. Kinda weird, kinda weird. Also, J*une is a little pissbaby boy. Little weenie of a man.

Funny how someone acted like I was saying that women with big boobs can't be lesbians though lmao I AM a big-boobed lesbian and I deal with all the problems

But apparently I'm stuck here explaining misogyny and sexism to people as old as me or older. (Note: this isn't about you, anon, I really don't mind genuine questions. it's just about people not understanding the problem of the Castaspella Situation.)

Anyways, as always, you only get Mimmy/Mim rights if you're my follower. Everyone else can refer to me only as Marahope CEO, Op, The True Writer of SPOP, The Only Real Castaspella Stan or Mimdecisive.

[spopsalt]

Ayo it's me, the Anon with the long posts and short memory of what to write next.

This time I have a question for you: How long do you think that the stans are unironically going to say that the whole conflict of the Horde conquering the universe as well as Hordak starting the war on Etheria pre-Despondos release was both indirectly 𝘢𝘯𝘥 directly Adora's fault for existing (aka taking chipped Catra's opinion of her during the lash out to heart).

Still confused of why they'd make that logic? I'm glad you asked 'cause here are the steps for the stans' potential bashing:

The First Ones didn't stop the Horde and simply went "welp, we lost, might as well die" even though we don't know what caused them to mostly disappear when Etheria came back to the universe from Despondos.

2. Light Hope was continuously going for Adora when Hordak was pulled so 𝘢𝘭𝘭 of Etheria's plight, and more specifically Catra's pain, is because Adora was born to be Adam's twin and therefore having the prerequisites to transform into She-Ra. How dare she (Adora, that is).

3. Similar to point 2, how dare she live a life of peace and privilege in the Etherian Horde while the universe outside of Despondos is being depopulated by Horde Prime due to him being a despot that had no-one try to kill him via light magic until Etheria was able to be properly placed back into the universe it originally belonged to before being transported to Despondos so that she would have the means of seeing him face to face at all.

The tl;dr? Adora existing in Etheria and not first destroying its Horde (and specifically Shadow Weaver) and then the galactic version after pulling the planet from one dimension to another even before she was old enough walk and therefore understand the situation she was in is enough reason for SPOP stans to take chipped Catra's words e.g. "this wouldn't happen if you didn't exist" to heart and take umbrage at her (Adora) for not doing enough in their eyes to be worthy of being called a predestined heroine of the series' universe.

Hopefully my ramblings made sense and not seen as the words of a fool losing their marbles.

Welcome back! Don't worry, it made sense and I agree. Even when Catra was normal she still took advantage of Adora's guilt complex, in the words of corrupted Catra (Yes I'm counting it as normal Catra since there's no confirmation that her being corrupted changed her personality at her) "Let's be honest, all of this is your fault" "If you hadn't gotten captured, your sword wouldn't have opened the portal" "Admit it, Adora! The world would still be standing, if you had never come through that portal in the first place" "You broke the world and it is all. your. fault." if that isn't enough proof for you, even regular Catra said "It won't be over until I see the look on your friend's faces when they find out that you failed! Because you were too weak to save them." "You're good enough at hurting your friends without my help." Catra just love manipulating Adora, and she even brags about it to Lonnie "She's (Adora's) slow, and easily manipulated"