#I really hope I've made my meaning clear with the queerbaiting stuff

[billpottsismygf]

Good Omens Spoilers

Okay, wow. It's going to take me a while to fully process that, and I definitely won't until I've rewatched it at least once. It has a very different feel to series 1. There are fewer disparate characters, especially human characters, like Shadwell, Anathema, etc., which I did rather miss; the lack of a narrator weirdly changes the tone quite a lot in itself; and, perhaps most significantly, there’s a real mystery that the audience are not let in on, in contrast to us in series 1 watching Aziraphale and Crowley search for a boy we already know the identity of.

Maggie and Nina are nice, and I really enjoyed the obvious parallels to Aziraphale and Crowley (the line about sheltering under a downpour especially felt very relevant), but I’m also not sure they merited as much screentime as they got. I am really glad that their story didn’t end with them dramatically falling in love with each other, as I found the idea that Maggie was really in love with Nina a bit suspect - they’ve clearly barely talked before we meet them. The open ended question of their relationship obviously mirrors Aziraphale and Crowley too.

And now the elephant in the room: that ending was devastating. The end of series 1 is so effective and moving because we finally see Aziraphale and Crowley get to be together on their own terms. Here, it’s completely undone. I love the little subtleties of the Metatron’s look at Crowley as he leaves the bookshop with Aziraphale - he knew Crowley would never accept an offer to be an angel again.

On the one hand, I believe that Aziraphale would accept the offer, and that he would think Crowley would want to come with him, as he’s always been the one most hesitant to distance himself from the Heaven/Hell dichotomy, and to commit to his partnership with Crowley.

On the other hand, has he learnt nothing? I thought he understood by this point that Heaven did not always have the best of intentions. And he’s just seen what happened to Gabriel when he refused to toe the line, a punishment that the Metatron himself was involved with doling out. Does Aziraphale somehow think he’ll have more control? What will he do when he’s inevitably asked to do something that contradicts his own morals? He can’t think that won’t be a problem.

Like I say above, it’s not that it’s out of character for Aziraphale to accept the offer. It’s more that it’s a step backwards in character, and feels perhaps a little artificial. It’s the hand of the writer, putting in the equivalent of that beat in a romcom when the characters have a falling out. Our other mirrors for them, Gabriel and Beelzebub, get to run off happily together, so we can probably expect the stereotypical reunion too.

And we now of course have our context for The Spoiler. It’s a lot more devastating than I think anyone was expecting. I know there’s been a lot of Discourse around queerbaiting, and I have read perspectives on that that I can understand, but it’s never been queerbaiting in my opinion. I sometimes wish that things could be allowed (and I mean by the fandom crowd, not by the mainstream) to be subtle and achingly unspoken, to be queer in theme and context, and also perhaps to allow for non-normative manifestations of queer love (asexual/queerplatonic/etc.). 

However, the kiss changes none of that. I am glad that Aziraphale and Crowley are now queer in a way in which mainstream audiences can’t miss. I sort of wish it didn’t have to be that way but, after all, a kiss is not an inherent barrier to other queer readings, and it works so well in the context of the scene. It’s Crowley’s last-ditch attempt to demonstrate what they could be, without words, and it fails. It’s heart-breaking.

As to the future of the show and their relationship, we’ll have to wait and see. There’s a possibility that we won’t get a series 3 at all, in which case this is a dreadful place to end, and I really do hope that doesn’t happen. Ultimately, this series was a little unsatisfying, but Neil Gaiman always said that it was an intermediary, the lead up to the real next part of the story, and we’re just going to have to cope with that. Here’s hoping we don’t have to cope for too long!

Misc smaller things

I wasn’t sure about re-casting characters, but I actually loved the new actor for Beelzebub. Much as I adore Anna Maxwell Martin, I think she was perhaps slightly mis-cast originally. The visual effects and costuming around them were also much improved.

Miranda Richardson is amazing. Again, I wasn’t sure about her playing a totally different character, but she completely sells it. I love the clipped way she speaks, her mannerisms, all of it. She completely embodies Shax and not for a moment did she make me think of Madam Tracy.

I loved Muriel. Just very sweet and adorable and funny. No notes.

I also loved all the little references to things. The appearance of several Terry Pratchett books (The Colour of Magic and Good Omens specifically) and nods to his worlds - in particular, I got really excited about the seamstresses’ guild getting a wink. 

There were many, many Doctor Who references as well. I know they all had outrageous fun having Crowley referred to as “Doctor”, and that he got to use a Scottish accent (though a bit posher than David Tennant’s actual accent).

On that note, the extended flashbacks were wonderful. The Elspeth stuff was maybe a little on the nose, but I loved seeing them run around Georgian Edinburgh (which was so surreal, because it looks identical to modern Edinburgh). The stuff with Job was especially enjoyable, and I still can’t quite believe we got to see the aftermath of the church bombing.

[dent-de-leon]

I've been seeing a lot of posts and comments regarding that hypable (?) ship battle between Kl@nce and Victuuri. Some people are convinced that because of this, Kl@nce has to become canon. If I may ask, what are your thoughts? I'm mainly worried things might get disrespectful or harassing towards writers and those who ship Shiro and Keith.

oh man…okay so, I’ve been pretty upset about this actually, but here we go:

Again, my own personal opinions here. But, for the people who think that somehow this means k/l has to become canon, well: 1) They don’t understand how animation works, and 2) I think that’s acting very entitled. Even though I’m sure some of them genuinely believe that supporting k/l over victu/uri is the right thing–or that maybe it will even make k/l canon–they must not realize that animation is literally planned out years in advance, and there’s just no conceivable way to go back now. I’m really sorry if that hurts, but it’s the truth. As for my second point, I mean…I’ve always thought there was this trend where some k/l fans were very loud and demanding about wanting k/l to be canon, and I think it’s important to kind of take a step back and realize that the narrative is not their own and they should respect the writers’ decisions. 

Obviously I want she/ith to be canon, but I’ve never gone to one of the writers or showrunners and told them you have to do this. And if sh/eith doesn’t become canon? I mean, I’ll obviously be disappointed. But I sure won’t harass or condemn the studio for it. And I mean, I wasn’t even gonna say anything about any of this, but obviously I personally dislike k/l, but even if I didn’t feel that way–it really bothers me that people would act like the k/l interactions we got in canon were somehow better than supporting actual, legitimate representation. That sends a much stronger message.

And to just repeat what I said before, the showrunners have already addressed this, and they made their position very clear:

I also really dislike the sense of entitlement that came with k/l being so popular. (And also, this is more due to its huge fanbase than the actual ship itself). But anyway, it seemed to me that people were insisting k/l was somehow queerbaiting if it didn’t become canon, and kept pressuring the studio that k/l was somehow the only viable option, despite the fact that animation is done so far in advance it’s literally too late to make any big changes.

As unprofessional as it was, an interviewer asked about k/l because of how popular it was and wanted to know if the ship would be “teased” for the fans. That’s not representation. That is queerbaiting, which the showrunners responded to and straight up said they would not do, as well as explaining that they couldn’t just change the script and make it so that “and now they’re in love.” (source) Again, I just want to clarify that I think this attitude was brought about by how huge the fanbase is rather than the actual content of the ship itself. But still, it’s a mindset prevalent enough to kind of turn me off from the ship

And the showrunners also explained how much time actually goes into animation, and the fact that it’s just not possible to suddenly go and reanimate stuff they had planned out years ago. Here are some excerpts from that interview: 

Interviewer: “I feel like there was a little tease? It seems people want to ship Lance and Keith together, so are there gonna be any hits of that at all?”

Lauren: “We’re not trying to cater to or bait anyone into anything, we’re just trying to do what’s right for the story.”

Joaquim: “We also try not to be overtly affected by what popular opinion might be.”

Lauren: “And we’re working in animation. Our schedule is so far in advance for that–even if people shipped Keith and Lance, we couldn’t go back and just change the story–to be like and now they’re in love!”

Joaquim: “There’s just no way. We’re already years past that storyline, you know?” 

And honestly, this was the right, responsible thing to do. If k/l wasn’t meant to be a thing, they could have just egged it on and got people’s hopes up for no reason. They could’ve “teased” it in official art and interviews or answered this question with something like, “Ooo you never know! You’ll just have to keep watching!” That would have been queerbaiting. By directly stating that they didn’t intend for k/l to be teased and they weren’t trying to bait anyone, that’s doing a lot more than what other people have done. It shows they understand what representation is and aren’t going to pretend a gay relationship is there when it’s not just to attract viewers. 

So yeah, nothing’s gonna change either way. That much I can guarantee–animation just isn’t a conducive medium to that sort of thing. Whatever it is, it is. People who genuinely believe otherwise are mistakenly misinformed I think, and I would encourage them to actually look into the timeline of just how long a process animation actually is. But I do think it’s possible that turning down legitimate representation in favor of something built up in fanon sends a message to other people that it doesn’t matter whether you have genuine representation in canon or not, and that honestly bothers me. 

I didn’t even watch yoi–though I do love and have repeatedly cried over Endless Night–but you better believe my bi figure skating ass went and voted for vict/uuri just to make a point. Because ya at the end of the day it’s a silly ship war, but I feel like it’s more so about actual canon representation vs something just being good enough in fanon 

[awed-frog]

Hi! I've just gotten back into the fandom after a few years break. I've watched SPN since it aired in 2005, but I've left four times, each time for at least a year, because I keep feeling like we're being queerbaited w/Destiel and it really upsets me. In short, I feel like investing so much time, and so many emotions, into this pairing is a waste of time because it will only leave me disappointed in the end. So my question for you is, what keeps you positive enough about this pairing to stay?

Hey, sorry for getting back to you so late. I wrote and erased several answers to this, because, I don’t know, on some days I was trying to be clever and go all meta-stuff but it always sounded pretentious and stupid, and then on other days I felt dramatic and angry and got all upset and it would generally read as too much or not nearly enough, so. And today I really think I left this unanswered for way too long and that if you asked me, then you wanted my opinion on the matter and this is what I should be trying to do - just to say what i think, without too many frills.

So, first of all - I’m a weird person, and sometimes I get too worked up about stuff, and I obsess a lot, and thank God I’ve got people in my life who keep me grounded and remind me about what really matters. And the truth is, Supernatural doesn’t. It’s a good show, and we all love it, and sure, like all popular works of fiction it probably changed someone’s mind and had an impact on someone’s life, but at the end of the day, you come first. As I said, I had periods in my life where I was putting too much energy on the wrong things, and a TV show is definitely the wrong thing, especially if it leaves you frustrated and upset and angry. I say this with a lot of respect, because I know we all love Supernatural and everything, but let’s be honest - it’s a TV show. It’s not real. If it makes you cry for the wrong reasons, get away from it and good riddance. What truly matters in this life is to find a way to love yourself and to be there for other people - to be kind, and to be strong, and to maybe make our world a little better. So if a story helps you do that, embrace it; and if it doesn’t, let it go. It’s just a story.

For me, personally, I had a very emotional time with Destiel (you can read about it here), because I felt cheated and let down and pretty much what you describe - I knew I’d invested so much of myself in the show, and that they’d let me down for stupid reasons. And it was really bleak for a while, so I get where you’re coming from. Back in S9, I spent many days feeling listless and depressed, and quite a few nights ranting and raging and even crying about it, and when I snapped out of it I realized that sure, they were being cunts and cheaters but there was something wrong with me, as well - because, as I just told you, it’s just a show, and it shouldn’t have dominated my feelings in such a way. So I tried to be objective and rational and I thought about it and I realized it was a bunch of things - I was stressed in school, and my grandparents were sick - all I’d wanted was to take a big step back from reality and as a result I’d fallen too deep into the show and that’s why when it let me down, it really felt like a physical blow. And since not getting lost in fiction, my own or other people’s, is not an option for me, I’m learning to deal with real life stuff better so I can tell apart what really matters from what doesn’t. I know I’ve made some progress there because I was really invested in Sherlock and Johnlock, and yet after the series finale I was - normal. I was upset and angry, of course, because it sucked balls, but it didn’t ruin my whole week or anything. My general mood was more a sort of, It’s not real and I can’t change it, so fuck them. 

(I think this is what happens with everything, by the way - most sport fans get so invested in their teams because it’s a sort of victory by proxy and it compensates for those things that are wrong in their lives. So, really - I don’t know you, and I don’t want to tell anyone how they should live their lives, but if this kind of ‘external’ things such as TV shows and movies make you so unhappy, my advice is to get to know yourself and understand why you feel that way. If there is something in your own life you’re not dealing with, the best thing is really to try and be brave and go at it head-on, because life is unfair and bad feelings and bad situations - that’s not something that goes away on its own. And it’s your life - you deserve to live it fully.)

So now - now there are shows I watch because I think they’re objectively outstanding, like Westworld, and there are shows I watch as a guilty pleasure and I’m mostly rolling my eyes at the screen but who knows, maybe it’s healthy to cry once a week so whatever (yeah, I’m a Grey’s Anatomy aficionado), and then there’s Supernatural, which is neither. I guess the reason I keep watching is because most of it is well-written, even if I dislike the fact they clearly have no idea as to where they’re going and what the whole thing even means, and I keep watching because I love the characters, and I keep watching because I met a lot of nice people in the fandom and writing about the show is helping me to get better as a writer (I think). The truth is, I’m an unusual Destiel shipper (if there’s such thing as a regular Destiel shipper, that is), because I’m not that interested in romance and even representation - well, it’s very important and stories should be more inclusive, but a good story can work even without being PC, in my opinion (take Reservoir Dogs, for instance). So what I resent the most in this situation is that they got me to care - they clearly wrote the story one way - and then they made me feel like there was something wrong with me for seeing what I was seeing. This is textbook abusive behaviour, and the fact it was targeted directly at the gay community (because, on the whole, they’re more likely to pick up on subtextual clues about sexuality) made it even more horrifying and wrong. 

That said, I don’t think there was a malicious intent there. I’m sure they knew what they were doing, because that’s their job, after all, but they all seem to be pretty decent people, so it’s not clear if they did not realize how significant a love story between Dean and Cas would be, or how attentive their own fandom was - I simply don’t know. Maybe they were going for some old-fashioned ‘alas, that it shall never be’ nonsense - back in the day, it happened very often that you were left with the feeling of things unsaid and you never knew if you were right or not, and also you mostly forgot about it because real-time fangirling over stuff wasn’t a thing. In a way, that’s also what happened with Sherlock, which became a worldwide phenomenon because of the fandom, something Moffat and Gatiss acknowledged without never realizing, apparently, the full implications of.

I think that, to an extent, we’ve always lived in a world of lies and deceit, and that’s just human nature; but as far as I can tell, the spreading of capitalism and consumer culture, on the one hand, and that of democratic societies, on the other, elevated the importance of honesty to a whole other plane. Corporations lie to us as a matter of fact - all advertisement is a lie, after all - and politicians also mostly lie, both to us and to themselves. This was always bound to have disastrous consequences, which we are now starting to witness. For this reason, mostly, I think it’s more important than ever that artists are honest about the stories they tell - they can talk about anything, of course, and decide which kind of story they want to create, but they should stay true to it. I sometimes feel that, like other important concepts, such as freedom of expression, the idea that a story is its reader’s, and not its creator’s, is sometimes perverted beyond recognition. To say that the story belongs to its readers means that we all come to the story with our own experiences, and that we all get from it what we choose to get, to some extent; this is, perhaps, some form of cognitive bias (we see the world as we are, and not as it is: that sort of thing), and a good writer will create a story that is deep enough all of us can recognize ourselves in a part of it. But some modern creators, like current politicians, intend the concept in a very different way. Their method is to deliberately appeal to everyone in order to get money or votes, and they forget, or pretend to ignore, that in so doing they are bound to deceive a significant part of those who believed in them. Just as the centrism in politics is an illusion, a story which tries to make everyone happy is plain dishonest. When push comes to shove, Dean and Cas are either in love or they aren’t, and it’s not my job as a viewer to guess what they really feel - it’s the show’s creators job to tell me.

So, you know - you ask how I stay positive enough to keep watching the show - it sounds weird, since I write metas every week and I write Destiel fanfiction and everything, but personally, I’m trying not to think about Destiel at all. For me, it is real, in the sense that I still see it in the story, but I think that for a variety of reasons, there will be no steady love stories on Supernatural until the very last season. My hope is that, since a convincing gay story is harder to write than a straight one (because, apparently, many people are still unaware of the fact gay people are a thing at all), the Destiel subtext will get stronger quite soon(ish) if Destiel is indeed endgame. I mean, you see it very clearly from that whole Saileen business - in Sam’s case, two episodes are plenty enough to build a believable love story and make us root for Sam and Eileen and daydream about their darling little house and their fluffy future dogs, but, again, when it comes to gay couples - even if Dean and Cas do get together in the very last episode or something, you need to build that up quite openly and not too late, or it will feel forced to a casual viewer. As I said, I try not to think too much about it because there are a lot of ifs, but - if Supernatural has an end date in sight, if this is a coming of age narrative and not a tragedy, if nothing messy happens IRL - then I think that yes, we still have a chance for Destiel to happen textually. That dreadful Sherlock ending, after all, and mostly the outraged and angry response from both critics and the fandom, should serve as a warning to Dabb and his team: planning to go big and then not going big doesn’t endear you to anyone, because people’s hearts are wild, unpredictable, irrational and beautiful things, and even Hotelling’s law has its limits.