#I know it has some overlap with the poly community but it's still a form of monogamy due to the lack of others involvement

[greateggcult]

ok yeah, I would probably be the the orange and black, but still functionally aro due to my version of romance not being typically considered romance and me not having much interest or ability to comply with the normal stuff.

Even in the rare cases where I would want romance it isn't exactly viable due to the cultures surrounding it and the needs of the typical person.

I would imaging it more like metaphorically being with a stray cat made human, or the planet's orbit, than it is the lovey dovey stuff. a strange sort of companionship beyond the platonic but not meeting the qualifications to be really considered romantic. something more like the changing of seasons. lacking the constant need for company but still maintaining the security of knowing they'll be back eventually. Something with plenty of breathing room but not lacking warmth. The ability to have time alone without the isolation or the pressure. The love is there without the hunger that people seem to see as a requirement.

It sucks that others would feel this sort or thing as torment, and don't blame them. I imagine to lots it would be like fasting and not everybody is built for that, the same way that others aren't built for constant affection.

So this sort of thing would likely have to be mutual or else it's not viable. It's a strand of hay in a gigantic mixed assortment needle stack. Not impossible but highly unlikely and a nightmare to find in the current state of things.

hey black stripe for romantic individuals who go against the traditional culture of romance is pretty based actually. i wish we still talked about that

[aroacepagans]

That last post has me thinking about Paganism in connection to alternative relationship structures, and how Morning Glory Zell-Ravenheart, who coined the term polyamory, also helped to found the first registered Neopagan church in the U.S. and how that might be relevant for those of us who are both a-spec and Pagan.

We talk a lot about how the poly community and a-spec community overlap, interact and share values due to an allowance for non-normative relationship styles. For those of us who practice some form of Neopagan spiritual tradition, I think this can also help link us to our religious communities. Personally, I have always viewed Pagan spiritual space as being a place for alternative relationship models. I think more than half of the other Pagans I know are poly or otherwise queer, and those who aren't still often participated in cis, heterosexual, monogamy in a non-normative way. This is due, at least partially, to the shared history and community values of Paganism and polyamory.

From an aroace perspective then, I can say that growing up in Pagan spaces gave me many different examples of how a non-normative relationship might work. It lessened my anxiety about what the future would look like as an aroace, because I could see a large portion of my community building their relationships, families, and support networks in a way that didn't fit the norm. That understanding creates a wholeness to my identities. My spiritual identity helped build a framework for my queer identity to grab onto, and so my aro-ness is part of my ace-ness, my aroace-ness is part of my pagan-ness, and my relationship anarchy and non-monogamy is wrapped up in all of it.

Anyways, I'm interested to know if other neopagan a-specs also feel this connection between their identity and their spirituality. I know these values can shift a little across religion and congregation, so I would love to hear people's thoughts.

[hakuoki-dreams]

Hi, i'm so glad you aswered! I was thinking like Sano/OC/Shin for the poly ask. Thank you son much!!

Starting a poly relationship with Shinpachi and Sanosuke…I’m not sure whether to applaud your taste or ask if you have a deathwish! 😉 But here’s my best shot at how it might go:

                                        —————————

This will be a very, very big ask for either of them

Neither of these guys is especially jealous or possessive per se, but both of them are a little old-fashioned with romance in their own ways. Neither one has ever pictured themselves in this kind of situation with the girl they eventually fell for

Their individual reactions when you try to bring up the subject one-on-one:

Of the two of them, Sano is probably more open-minded in general. He won’t like the idea of sharing you in a relationship, but he’ll try to listen and not immediately shut you down. He can tell you’re serious about this and will match your mood. Inside he’ll be very concerned–he definitely sees a family and kids in his future, and he’s worried that it sounds like your needs might potentially be at odds with each other. Out of deep affection for you, he’ll do his best to hear you out and consider what you’re saying.

Shin will be a little more hurt, unfortunately. No matter how carefully you phrase it, to him it’ll confirm all his fears that he’s not enough for you. He won’t get angry, but he’ll have to leave for a while to be alone and think about it over a drink. He’s had multi-partner sexual experiences–although not with another guy–so it’s really not the idea of sex with a third person that bothers him so much. More so it’s the idea of sharing you emotionally, and having another person’s feelings in the mix to consider. He’s fearful that it would drive a wedge between you two and cause you to drift away from him.

But no matter who you decide to bring it up with first, when you get them together for a talk between all three of you, they’ll be dazed to realize just who you had in mind to complete this love triangle. Their first reactions will be the exact same: intense embarrassment

They’re practically brothers. They’ve risked their lives side by side in combat, lived together for years, have honestly seen each other naked in enough locker-room-type situations that it doesn’t even phase them anymore.

But this? This is just…beyond the pale

The idea of being brought into a very close and intimate relationship with each other, even with you in the middle, isn’t something that had remotely crossed either of their minds. In the moment, they’d almost rather it had been a complete stranger

The atmosphere in the room is a stark change from the easy camaraderie you’re used to around these two. Both will be very stiffly looking in opposite directions, wishing they were anywhere else besides here having this conversation.

They’ll have to get drunk together to even think about talking to each other about it. After half a dozen hasty rounds or so, some of the awkwardness has finally faded with help from good old liquor. Never one to be caught speechless for long, Sano probably breaks the silence first:

‘So before just now…did she tell you who, or…?’

‘No. You?’

‘Nope.’

‘Ah.’

Shin will drop his head onto the table and let out some choice curse words. Sano will nod in sober agreement. There’s another long silence in which both of them are picturing many vivid hypotheticals. They won’t just be worrying about your feelings. As strange and unfamiliar as it is to be concerned with, neither guy really wants to see the other get hurt if they can help it.

After some more private contemplation on both sides, they’ll find themselves drifting toward an uneasy middle ground. They’ll share a resigned glance that communicates something like well…if it had to be any other guy.

In the sober light of day, the early weeks will still be incredibly awkward. Neither one has an inkling how to make this work. They’re going to leave it up to you to decide all the boundaries, to your chagrin.

For a while it feels like you’re in two different relationships, not a single connected one. You certainly find yourself spending a lot of time with both of them–just not together.

There are many gawky hand-offs as a result. They like to meticulously plan their time with you so that there’s no overlap. It still happens, and it makes you all cringe inside.

Shin picks you up for a date and walks in on you and Sano kissing in the kitchen. He rubs a hand through his hair at the sight, sort of coughs to announce his presence. Later on Sano comes looking for you in the morning and finds you leaving Shin’s room hand-in-hand with him. Both turn redder than you’ve ever seen them, but they don’t say anything and sort of pass you along

You find yourself hiding your face in your hands a lot

It definitely puts a strain on their friendship at first. They both care a lot about you, and it makes them feel like true rivals for the first time in their lives. They don’t enjoy the feeling, but they’re not sure how to get past it.

Time can help thaw even the most uncomfortable affairs, however. The situation slowly becomes routine, if not entirely relaxed. You do your utmost to love on them both equally. And thankfully, alcohol always remains as the eternal equalizer among you three.

It will be a very, very long time before you three share a bed, and it’ll be after a night of heavy drinking on all sides. Everyone collectively decides they’ve had about enough of the tip-toeing around–you all used to be such good pals with each other before all this, and you know what? Fuck it

Afterward there’s a marked shift in dynamic between the two of them. They’re not rivals anymore so much as players on the same team. Where before you could deal with their individual charms one at a time, you’re now stuck in the middle with both their arms around you as they compete to see who can woo you better. Rather than getting embarrassed themselves, they turn their attention on you and see who can get you to blush or smile first.

It would be extremely unfair if you weren’t enjoying yourself so much

At the end of good days, you find yourself wedged between their sleeping forms, a tangle of sweaty skin and arms–wondering if you can actually handle what you’ve gotten yourself into

[weaselle]

“So, my gf is new to her...polyiness (?) Tips on helping her navigate?”

Yes! This is going to be a little long, because it’s a bit “explain poly for beginners” but I’d love to, so here we go. First, thanks for giving me permission to answer your question more publicly, where it might be of interest/help to others :) Now, for YOU, I would recommend letting her lead. Since she’s new to it (but the implication is you are not) don’t push her to do or be anything specific, let her go where and when she’s comfortable. This could be tricky, as I don’t know if you have other partners already, how long the two of you have been together, how experienced in non-poly relationships she is, etc. That said, I’ll put down some stuff that helped me early on, that your GF might find helpful as well. Okay, so, everybody is different, but for me what has been extremely helpful is 1: having a base concept 2: finding comparable overlap in other kinds of relationships 3: being extremely honest about negative feelings within yourself 4: being extremely open to working within your partner(s) feelings and                    parameters (this last one is a good reminder for you as well, OP) 1: base concept when I was 16 and 17 and considering love, I wanted to find my soulmate etc etc. But I also had all these fantasies/life goals of having a lot of sexy adventures with various people throughout my life. How sad would it be if I actually did find my soulmate at 18, I thought, it would mean saying no to all that other stuff. And then I thought, but it would be sad for my partner too! Surely they also had many similar fantasies and desires - if I really loved them, I would never want to be the reason they couldn’t have as fulfilled a life as possible. Now of course, I have a much more personal and nuanced base concept I work off, but it’s still formed around that initial thought: if I really care for someone, I want them to be free to experience everything that makes them happy. I dated someone who’s concept included “it’s unfair to expect a single other person to be all the things I need” and I still think about that often, too. 2: comparable overlap in other relationships You can have several close friends, right? Remember how figuring out the “best friend” thing was weird in like, 5th or 7th grade or whatever? There were likely even some fights or fallings out over it? That’s all the same kind of jealousies and stuff you’ll deal with in a poly relationship. And hey! you learned to deal with all of that so well in friendships that it’s second nature to you now, right? Also, your partners are going to go out on dates and have sex with other partners (though oddly, for me, it’s the quiet study sessions together and things like that which have the potential to bother me more than the sex). It can be helpful to put that in the perspective of other situations. For instance, if I have a close friend, and they go to a concert with some other close friend of theirs and don’t invite me even though I like that band, I don’t get mad at them or upset or too jealous or anything... but also, I don’t necessarily enjoy hearing them talk about what a great time they had at the concert.  It’s similar with my partners and dates. I don’t need them to never talk about their other partners, but also, I don’t really need to hear details about their good times. This is helpful both for examining the way I feel about things, as well as communicating it in a way that is intrinsically understandable for my partners, and allows us to create boundaries without needing letter-of-the-law rules. 3: Be extremely honest about negative feelings within yourself. Being honest about your negative feelings is a must. My current partner is dating a woman who is a professional dominatrix, and THAT lady is married, and my partner used to date both of them simultaneously. But there were jealousy issues among them that made it not work out well; all parties are experienced in navigating these relationships, and the solution for them was that my partner no longer dates the husband (this was all before I entered the picture) When I was first in poly relationships, I discovered that it wasn’t the sex that made me jealous, it was the socio-emotional closeness. Turns out my jealousies center around a not-necessarily-healthy need to be loved THE MOST. For a long time, I dealt with this by having a Primary Partner, wherein it can be acceptable to insist on being the most important. If I was not honest about how I felt, I wouldn’t have known this was a possible solution.  These days I don’t lean on this concept so much, but I think it can be a real help for navigating trickier aspects of poly relationships, especially for beginners (for example: you have two partners, one is having a significant birthday, and one has their paintings in an art show for the first time... on the same night. If one of them is your Primary partner and you have been very clear about this, then everyone already knows which event you will be attending). 4: be extremely open to working within your partners’ parameters. This one is also a reminder for you, Questioner. The idea is to be willing to explore your own limits of what you can be happy with, while at the same time being willing to observe the boundaries your partner(s) have. Part of this is recognizing and communicating your own boundaries. Part of it is being open to and respectful of your partners needs. This one is pretty straight forward. hope this has been of any use, good luck and have fun!

[a-dinosaur-a-day]

gryfftech replied to your post “And with that, #Raptormonth and #Birds are Dinosaurs Week are over!”

I feel so out of it, I don't know what half of those terms are. But I still support this month!

I actually really love defining stuff, so @gryfftech, prepare yourself for some rad definitions under the cut

Gay - an umbrella term that applies to anyone who exclusively is attracted to the same gender as themself; however, is often used for men/partial men (such as demiboys) who fit this condition. 

Achillean - Men who are attracted to other Men (mlm) (also applies to nonbinary people who identify at least partially with Man and apply this label to themselves) 

Lesbian - "A person who is a woman or partially a woman who feels attraction, be it romantic and/or sexual, to other women and partial women.” 

Sapphic - Women who are attracted to other Women (wlw) (also applies to nonbinary people who identify at least partially with Woman and apply this label to themselves) 

Andro/Masc/Masexual/romantic - When one is attracted to men and/or masculine genders/individuals (these types of orientations are useful for nonbinary people who don’t want to use the terms gay or straight) 

Gyne/Fem/Womasexual/romantic - When one is attracted to women and/or feminine genders/individuals 

Diamoric - A flexible term that has two different definitions:  1) A nonbinary person who prioritizes nonbinary people and nonbinary partnerships in their life  2) A relationship that involves at least one nonbinary individual (even if one of the people involved is binary) 

Enbian - A nonbinary person attracted to other nonbinary people (nblnb) (like sapphic & achillean) 

Ceterosexual/romantic - Someone who is exclusively attracted to nonbinary genders (really only usable by nonbinary people) 

Bisexual/romantic - Someone who is attracted to two or more genders 

Polysexual/romantic - Someone who is attracted to three or more genders, or all genders to the exclusion of one, etc. 

Pansexual/romantic - Someone who is attracted to all genders, or attracted to people independent of gender 

Multisexual/romantic - Someone who is attracted to multiple genders; or a term used for the entire community of people who fit this description (bi, poly, pan, etc.) 

Pluralian - An umbrella term for people who are attracted to more than one gender; one who prioritizes, or is proud of, all the genders to whom they are attracted equally; one who celebrates their multiple attraction; the community of people who are attracted to more than one gender; a descriptor of the attraction someone who is attracted to multiple genders feels towards anyone of any gender -> a term that is similar/aligns with “sapphic” and “achillean” and “enbian,” and can be used as a replacement for words such as gay, straight, and diamoric when pluralian/mspec people describe their attraction towards other people 

Asexual - Someone who does not experience sexual attraction 

Graysexual - Someone who experiences sexual attraction less so/differently than others 

Demisexual - Someone who only experiences sexual attraction once they have formed a deep emotional connection with someone else 

Aromantic - Someone who does not experience romantic attraction

Grayromantic - Someone who experiences romantic attraction less so/differently than others

Demiromantic - Someone who only experiences romantic attraction once they have formed a deep emotional connection with someone else 

Akoi/Lithsexual/romantic - Someone who feels attraction but it fades when reciprocated, or when a relationship is entered, or a person who feels attraction but has no desire to have the feelings reciprocated 

Intersex - An individual whose biological characteristics do not fit into the biological models of male and female 

Trans - An individual who does not completely, no-holes-barred identify with the gender they were assigned at birth 

Nonbinary - An individual who identifies with a gender outside of the societal binary of man/woman; used as both an umbrella term as well as just a gender in and of itself

Genderqueer - An individual with a gender identity outside of the gender binary, or with an identity other than man and woman (yes, this is very similar to nonbinary) 

Maverique - A gender characterized by autonomy and inner conviction that is entirely independent of male, female, or anything derived from the binary genders which is not without gender or a neutral gender; a distinct and firm Other Gender 

Agender - Someone who does not have a gender/experiences no gender whatsoever

Neutrois - Someone who has a neutral or null gender

Genderless - Someone without gender, or with a neutral or null gender, etc. (all three of these have a lot of overlap) 

Genderfluid - Someone whose gender changes over time, or has a gender identity that changes 

Genderflux - Someone who experiences shifts or changes in the intensity of their gender 

Demigirl - Someone who is in part, but not entirely, a girl/experiences the woman gender only in part 

Demiboy - Someone who is in part, but not entirely, a boy/experiences the man gender only in part 

Demifluid - Someone who is in part, but not entirely, genderfluid

Deminonbinary - Someone who is in part, but not entirely, Nonbinary 

Proxvir - A gender relative to male, but is something separate and entirely on it’s own 

Juxera - A gender relative to female, but is something separate and entirely on it’s own 

Xenogender - A gender that cannot be defined in terms of the male/female gender binary or any typical terms that are used to describe gender; and is thus described utilizing other terms (such as descriptors of nature, music, etc.) 

Graygender - A weak or indeterminant nonbinary gender, or an individual who is not invested in their gender

Cassgender - A gender identity that one feels is unimportant, or someone who is indifferent to the idea of gender 

Bigender - Someone who is two genders at once, or has two distinct gender identities 

Trigender - Someone who is three genders at once, or has three distinct gender identities 

Polygender - Someone who has multiple/many genders at once 

Alterous - An attraction that is not entirely or completely platonic or romantic, and is best described as wanting emotional closeness without necessarily being platonic and/or romantic 

Queerplatonic - A relationship that is not romantic, but involves a close emotional connection beyond what most people consider friendship/best-friendship; there is also a commitment level similar to a romantic relationship, where people partner up, oftentimes for their whole lives, to go through life together. 

Quoioromantic - When someone experiences something between romantic and platonic attraction, but doesn’t know what romantic attraction feels like and doesn’t know if they experiences, or just can’t differentiate between the two

Polyamorous - When someone does not desire to be in a relationship with only one other person. This often applies to the LGBTQ+ community and LGBTQ+ people are often polyamorous, so it was included here (I also am inclined to just include the term in the general community anyway, but that’s Discourse™ so I’ll leave it at that). 

Hopefully that helps!