#I feel like I've understood the story better smh

[appleblossoms08]

It's 4 am and I just finished the Arcane S2 marathon with my friends

I am NOT okay

[canisbeanz]

I am SO late to this post but oh well, I have things to say too, I hope you don't mind.

I find Tobio really interesting as a character and it always bugs me how little screen time he gets smh. I think the best he gets that I've seen is in the 2003 series, because of all the flashbacks and occasional ghost Tobio sightings I feel like you actually get to know him better than him just being a plot fodder child character who dies before the story really starts.

Obvs there's also the short "The Secret of Atom's Birth" which does an amazing job establishing his personality and making you actually care about his death, but I don't usually count that one because 1 I'm not sure how canon it is to anything bc it has some very obvious differences to the 03 series continuity, and 2 It doesn't have an official or even good fan English translation so it's pretty hard to understand what's going on in more detail than the obvious parts that don't rely on spoken language to be understood. (Honestly, I think it is a testament to how good the directing of the short is if I can still understand enough to get emotionally invested while not understanding a single line of dialog.) Also, Idk how others feel but ik I personally have a very hard time having any empathy for a character's death if I didn't have a chance to get attached to them while they were alive. So in a lot of adaptations, I end up really not caring about Tobio at all which really isn't great considering how important he is to the overall story. (Warrior Cats has really desensitized me to character deaths lol) Because they're not real people I don't really place any value on a life I didn't get to know anything about. Like, I can look at a character and the situation surrounding their death and go "Yeah that's pretty sad" and have empathy for other characters who miss them, but unless I get a chance to get attached to that character for more things other than stuff related to their death I have a really hard time seeing it as any kind of substantial loss. (Can't miss what you never had ig)

This is one of the biggest problems in the 09 film imo. I watched that film as my first introduction to anything Astro boy and I had absolutely no attachment to Tobio at any point in the runtime, before or after his death. In fact (and this is gonna make me seem absolutely evil lol) the first time I watched Tobio's death scene in the movie I genuinely laughed out loud. Something about how he just completely vanishes without a trace but his hat is unscathed is just hilarious to me for some reason, and how President Stone just gives absolutely no shits about seeing a child get vaporized absolutely kills me every time lmfao. My apathy towards Tobio there also really isn't helped by the fact that after the initial "you're not Toby, get out of my house" scene he's basically never mentioned again. When your film centers around an inciting incident that is sparked by a very sad character death and the audience couldn't care less about said character you've probs made a bit of an oopsey.

I also feel like adaptations could really benefit from letting Astro properly interact with Tobio. No traveling back in time to meet him or have him actually talk to his ghost or anything like that, I mean more letting Astro acknowledge Tobio's existence as a real human child with feelings and a personality, and less like his fleshy blueprints would be cool. Also, I think showing how Astro himself feels about the fact he's made in the likeness of a dead kid he never even met would make some really interesting opportunities for character growth. (yes 03 does do a tiny bit of this, which is appreciated, I just want more lol) One major thing that always gets to me about Tobio and Astro's relationship is just how little there is of it. Astro barely acknowledges him a lot of the time and when he does it's usually in a very matter-of-fact "I was meant to be Tobio but I'm not so L Tenma" kind of way, (Yes 09 I am looking at YOU again) I just feel like, at the end of the day if Astro doesn't care about him then why should I?

To continue on 09 a sec I can actually think of a certain other robot film where a character's family member dies in an explosion off-screen and leaves behind nothing but their hat that works infinitely better and 99% of the reason for that is just how the dead character is established ad treated after death. Tadashi's death in Big Hero 6 makes me cry every. single. time. and the point at which it hits me isn't even when it happens, it's about half an hour later in the "Tadashi is here" scene. In an hour-and-a-half-long film, Tadashi is only actually alive for 23 minutes. They make SUCH good use of his screen time and do an amazing job of establishing who he is and why we should care about him that his presence is felt through the entire rest of the film, not just because the rest of the cast keeps name dropping him to remind you they miss him, they don't need to because YOU as the viewer miss him just as much. His death doesn't just feel like a 'make the plot start' button, it's an actual loss of a person the audience cared about. With 09 Tobio the only thing his 11 minutes of screen time tells about him is that he likes science, is very smart and seems to be a bit of a know-it-all and is a troublemaker who doesn't listen to authority figures. While this is all fine and I realise that he had like half the screen time Big Hero 6 did, I feel like they could've done a much better job getting the audience attached to him. I also think it really doesn't help how there isn't really any gap between his death and Astro's creation to show Tenma grieving him. There's no scene showing what Tobio left behind and give the audience a second to breathe, it just jumps straight to him building a replacement. (I'm not even gonna go into how much time that film wasted on the RRF instead of actual important scenes but OOF it's bad.)

TLDR I agree with everything you said and just wanted to add my thoughts. They really need to stop using Tobio as just a superhero origin story and actually expand on him as a character separate from Astro. In some cases, it almost feels like Tobio fills the role of 'main character before they get superpowers' like Peter Parker before the spider bite or something, it really just doesn't work with him because it ISN'T the same character lmao.

Tobio talk

I honestly have come to the realization that as well known as Tobio is because of Astro, while Astro stays the same in his iterations, Tobio is so obscure that while he has a few constants (shy/introverted/polite/struggles with his messy room, cares about his parents, etc..) most about him changes in different forms of media, and is also kept unknown for plot reasons, even his name itself changed as it wasn't Tobio originally. Usually because he is hit with a truck, or killed some other way, in the begining before we get to know much about him.

I think the most character he has ever been given is in Atom the Beginning, and the 2003 anime via flashbacks and a visit from his ghost (ouch as that scene hurt me🖐️😭)

The 2009 movie gave him a bit more screentime but there his character was different as in they kept most of the constants but made his personality more mischievous, confident, and sometimes hilariously cocky as he tries to live up to Tenma's ridiculous expectations

I think the other one would be Pluto which we don't even see Tobio in at all, but we get a lot of insight on who he was via Tenma having his usual existential breakdown about his death at the dinner table, very much confusing Astro (at the time who grew up thinking he was Tobio), leaving him very confused on why his father is talking about him in third person right to him.

As for the rest he is only brought up via flashbacks, people talking about him, and his unfortunately short screentime in the beginning of almost every iteration.

Most people base his personality on Astro but even then that's very incredibly vague as in every iteration Astro is displayed to, not just have traits only Tobio would have and replicate things Tobio would do, but also have a personality pretty different to Tobio. Tobio is shy and reserved (usually), Astro is polite like Tobio was displayed as but is more open and extroverted, in the 2009 movie Astro and Tobio have similar traits that make them alike but their personalities are mostly different, same for Pluto, and many others.

The only thing that stays the same between Tobio and Astro no matter the iteration is their looks and most importantly their moral compass. No matter what Astro and Tobio have the same moral compass on things

Now this brings us into aus which do exist in the small yet vastly powerful and growing Astro Boy fandom

I don't count Aus in this as they aren't anything canon or official, but nonetheless it is the one instance where their moral compasses change. In this instance you have what I call the "what if?" phenomenon, that happens in every fandom where they take the wholesome lil guy and change their moral compass around, usually making them into a bad guy/antagonist for their own interesting plot and story explorations which can lead to pretty interesting au reads. And as a side note yes, I am aware some people may find it upsetting as it's always out of character and some people don't like seeing their favorite good guy made out as a terrible person or doing something terrible which is understandable, it's not my cup of tea either, but at the same time you shouldn't worry about it affecting your love for the character because you have to remember that it's not their actual character nor is it affecting their actual character/reputation as a character. As long as it isn't made into anything immoral then just let people have fun and don't bug them. It's not hurting you or anyone else, or taking away the reputation of the character. Just vibe and let vibe.

Now what does this have to do with any of this? Well two things actually. One not only is the "what if?" extremely rare here, but it's also the only instances of their moral compusses getting turned around. The fact it never happens in the official media, and rarely ever happens in the fandom itself, is something I find to be a pretty cool constant for their characters that is agreed upon 100% in canon and a lot of the times in the fandom as well.

And I believe it is because it helps link the two together as their moral compusses, or better yet, their hearts, being of the same tune, helps them react to important situations the same way as eachother. They reflect eachother. Despite their differences, Tezuka shows that they are still always connected by heart and always will be in their official works.

So anyway, Tobio deserves more attention as there is both so much yet so little known about him at the same time, and with his ties to Astro's past it makes him such a cool character that deserves much more recognition! ^^

[valeriemperez]

I screenshot these from a forum. What do you think? imgur(.)com/a/VSj3a

This is very eloquently speaking, and I understand all of this person’s points. Which forum is it from?

Can we please still do the WestAllen deserved better tag. I still can’t believe they really pulled that 😭

I’m not the arbiter of trends, promise. I only make the posters and stuff because people ask. If someone wants to do Westallen Deserved Better, I will support and reblog it.

Long ask about WA/OF below, among others:

Part 1: Me again, thanks for answering. I'l probably take a little break from fandom if that’s the only way I can enjoy Barry/Iris being married. do what I gotta do. yk ;) About your other point, in the context of this story at least F is not just a white woman. She’s a Jewish woman, one whose E-X version we saw brutally mistreated. In a story with nzis invading her character (and other jewish characters) should have got more focus, not less.part 2, I was not talking about you when I mentioned the more about x than x stuff, fyi. I think you’ve made your opinion very clear. Was more talking about people who didn’t say/retweet anything (which has so many possible reasons depending on comfort level so I don'blame anyone for not saying anything) but then I see them fire off post after post about this dw like it’s the worst thing in the world, and that does make me shake my head because the comparison of the responses.part 3, Yes, as a black woman Iris should have gotten her say, but a jewish character getting her say and story this crossover was very important to me. Her romance getting focus felt correct in a story with invading nzis. I feel like part of this crossover has really shown how insensitive some people are with regards to antisemitism and see other issues as more important. (me talking generally again, not about you!)Part 4 (fandom general stuff, not wa fandom:) Then there’s people joking about how nzi version Ollie and Kara r still a better couple than K*ramel (which I don’t ship, but come on). Apparently there’s also a ‘funny’ twitter poll about which is worse, OF or nzis, and some r voting for OF. idk who made it, only saw a post about it. That’s vile. We can care about more than 1 thing, yes, but i'v come to to point of shaking my head when I see yet another wa was wronged and its the worst thing evapostpart 5/ sorry for dumping all this on you! It’s one thing when we fight hate for WA/Iris together, but when you’re kind of disappointed in your own fandom it’s hard to give your feelings a place. Crossover aside, I suppose I expected more from people. It was kinda self absorbed decision, but is that a reason to trash the entire character? Sounds too much like how people scream Iris needs to die if she has 1 episode they don’t like her in.part 6/ almost done, promise. The way I see it, there are WA fans that are upset (which I get) and then there are people who hate f and/or of and are using this to hate them more. I can support the former (to a point), but not the latter. Barring some overlap, those people don’t care about WA/Iris and will drop them as soon as they can’t use them anymore (which is exactly what happened last season when they thought OF wasn’t happening anymore).Part 7/ final part! And what gets me is I’ve seen people being immediately super hostile to some of the same of fans that have been defending Iris in the vile stuff that went down against her this season because they understood it with F. (not trying to paint them as saints, bec oh boy are there mean people in their fandom, jikes) but..yk what I’ll stop because I can never fully explain how it makes me feel. Thanks for listening :)

Yeah, fandom can make things worse for you as an individual instead of better a lot of times, so I totally get stepping back. And I agree that it makes sense for Felicity as a Jewish woman to have a central story when the villains are Nzis.

I’m glad the crossover worked for you on that front, and I agree that plenty of people don’t see antisemitism as serious because it’s not something they’ve ever experienced or witnessed. 

And, yes, joking about Nzis or OF being worse than them is fucking gross. The account that made that poll is an Arrow fandom troll who has been around for years: @LoveOverwatch on Twtter, btw. Steer clear of them.

I also totally understand what you’re saying about some people aligning themselves with garbage misogynists who have already shat on Iris and will continue to do so next week, just because they’re shitting on a different woman this week. That’s why I try to avoid publicly airing out my hatred of any female character, no matter how much I may dislike her. I never know how much of it is rooted is misogyny or the “there can only be one” mentality, and I don’t want to give a voice to those people.

I am not sure which fans from their fandom have defended Iris from vile stuff, but I trust there are some.

I believe the Flash show was used for ratings. Nearly every character got to shine on their own respective shows, but Barry barely got a few lines in his. I’m glad that Queen Iris got to kick some ass. But the writing for her on Error was OOC to an extent. Now I know what happens when Iris crosses over. I’d rather she stays on the Flash where she gets some respect.

You’re not wrong.

ugh, imagine cheering on some of the same people who treat Iris like trash just because this time it’s directed at something else. smh (not you!)

Yeah, I’m not here for that. I know those POS will be back at it again the second Iris breathes too loudly for their comfort.

Will Barry and Iris ever get a dance scene? The most basic stuff they don’t get. I won’t even ask about a love scene. I question the reasoning behind it all.

There’s definitely a reason to question it, and I hope you direct some of those questions to @gberlanti @flashtvwriters etc.

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