#I do agree though. It would benefit us greatly to have even a small ounce of familiarity with the location we will hopefully work at.

[cantujordan91]

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[coruscantholonet]

Sim ongoing

Soooo,first a small update on the sim in that work on it is still going down.  We’d love to have an opening date but playing it by ear.  Real life comes first, and I’ve been dealing with a lot of health issues so progress is a lot slower than it normally would be for me.  Fortunately have had several talented volunteers who are doing great with the build, so expect some more updates soon.

Some things we’re looking for include;

1. Getting a few rigs done.

2. Have a few staff positions as well in both the GM and storyteller department. As always longstanding policy is that we only take on those who do not have staff/responsibility positions elsewhere. 

------------Skip below if you don’t like rubbernecking.

Next, I need to apologize.  I fucked up.  Recently I went at some people who didn’t really deserve the “wrath” which seemed to be a catalyst in a domino effect that crippled “Unification”.  I still have many criticisms of it, but that chain reaction allowed for something much worse to fill the void that was created and I speak of “SWU” and “Taris”.  While 0% of what I said was a “lie” there was of course items that were speculation and a bit harsh and in retrospect it was regrettable.  I had some people with real life connections to Cyprus in my ear and it was very much a fire which was extensively fed by those with a malicious agenda.  For all the flaws Loosh and others may have, they would be far favorable to Cyprus.  In the entire decade I’ve been here I don’t think I’ve ever encountered someone so corrupt, someone who has not an ounce of integrity or any idea what fair play is.  Over the last few weeks I’ve had to hear so many of the regulars here speak of how they’ve been screwed over there and it’s been a bit gut wrenching with the knowledge that I am partly responsible. 

One example I will provide of how he and his clique engineered the feud was that they were the ones leaking information from Unification chat.  I’ve always aspired to be the same in public as in private, so I’m not usually too concerned with “leaks”, but in this case it was a clear effort to escalate the fighting so that he could benefit from it.

Some other examples during this was when two votes where occurring in Unification at the same time.  One of them to take away Loosh’s server admin position, the other on banning me. 

So to make that clear.  Both Cyprus and Sabastiion/JOINASR traded votes in order to gain support for their effort to oust Loosh.  When that didn’t happen and they couldn’t obtain virtual “power” through Unification they instead broke off to make SWU.  

Everybody knows I don’t mind a “fight”, to some extent I’ll embrace it.  That’s just who I am, but in this case I do think that was used against me as I swallowed the bait and didn’t really take pause to see the agendas at play.  In retrospect, with the history Cyprus and Sabastiion/JOINASR have for this kind of thing, I should have seen it from a mile away.

So let’s start with their last sim, in 2017 they made a Corellia sim back when we were Coruscant.  We had been under construction much like now, however we had a major setback when those two saw the build then offered the builder a much higher sum than we were able to pay.  So they pretty much bought the build out from under us, then there was even some griefing during this period as they sought to do what they could to keep us from re-opening.. much like the present in which they’ve bribed several people over.  Eventually their co-admins got fed up with their antics and voted to remove their admin status.  In response they returned the build, several builders who had worked on parts of the sim where negatively affected by this and I’m not even sure it ever opened again.  Here is what their co-admins sent out at the time..

“ Tonight, (9/4/2017), the ownership team voted on the removal of another owner (Talon) and an Admin (Cyprus). The two of them had continually goaded another SWRP sim into conflict. That sim being Fourth Dimension/Legacies. They bought a build out from under the owner of that sim, trying to use it as their own and rushed to open before 4D was fully able to, and are now pinning that on us. They griefed said sim, and harrassed its players in their group chats on multiple occasions in attempts to either poach from them, or simply troll them. Talon, as an owner did not actually pay into monthly sim tier, and never passed along the money from rentals to the ownership team. We still don't know where that money is. Cyprus, controlled the tip jar in the landing zone, and we haven't seen a dime from that. This sim was started on the idea of civilizing Star Wars roleplay, and being done with this sort of drama. We, the ownership team are deeply sorry that this occurred, and we are going to be working as hard as possible to get the sim back open, and on a clean slate, starting from square one. We will have a skybox area open for roleplay ASAP as we complete the entire sim build. We greatly appreciate your support and patience during this time, and we hope to be back to full scale RP soon! Any further questions, please contact torresalpha12 “

And here is one of the builders of that sim;

[18:34] RedactedA: Eesh, Talon just did a seriously fucked up thing to Corellia. 

[18:35] RedactedB: yeah I heard he returned the whole sim

[18:35] RedactedA: He deleted the sim and is now advertising 4D in the groups. [18:35] RedactedA: That's seriously poor form. 

[18:35] RedactedB: wat 

[18:35] RedactedA: [18:31] Φ Brother Talon (sabastiion): Fourth Dimension (148,128,4083) ((Builds were stolen from here, and they also have 31 people. Looking for more RP outside of corellia? Consider this) 

[18:36] RedactedA: I worked on the build there too, I'm a little less than pleased my work was deleted as well. [18:36] RedactedB: He's such a cunt

So, they got removed from position, returned the build then started advertising for my sim.. this after they bought our builder out from under us.  I guess they figured they needed to get back on our good side after alienating everyone who had worked with them on that sim.  

They didn't even end up paying the builder all the money they'd promised, after they rage returned the sim they blamed the 150USD that never got delivered on the people who they had just left build-less that had nothing to do with the deal.

They turned around and offered us the build parts that the people they tried to stick with the bill didn't even have access to.  Trying to get back in good favor with us, we declined though, we pretty much sat there and watched that sim implode like "huh".  

09/06/2017 [00:08] Φ Cyprus (DarthWyyrlok Resident): Btw, the hutt palace that [redacted] made for us, probably one of the better things hes every made, did you want to use it?

There are countless other stories like this, they’ve ripped off many people over the years. 

[Redacted C]Years ago he was attempting to make a sim. He asked if i wanted to help out and be an admin. Said sure. Paid him 10k and he immediately banned me. Called me a dopey retard for believing him.  Part of me agrees with him.Ever since, if he shows up, i typically warn the fuck out of people and avoid him like a herpes ridden 3rd avenue hooker.

[Redacted D]Havent seen him on sim. But he sounds like a cunt.

[Redacted C] he's the lead for the empire on taris

This pattern of underhanded behavior extends to the roleplay itself.  I don’t think I’ve seen many cases of worse meta-gaming than from that circle of real life friends with Cyprus, Sabastiion and Nessa.   Here is just one example in which Cyprus plays both a Darth and a Jedi Master at the same time.. and...hunts himself.. clearly using one character to inflate the other, this is perhaps one of the worst abuses of alt accounts I’ve seen in my decade in SWRP...

[ Have cut out irrelevant posts from other people ]

[01:46] Raven Tal (aaronsterling1) walked in slowly, a shadow casted over his face as he stood on the dance area for a few moments before continuing forward. His footsteps where silent as if he was trained to walk in silence and his breathing nominalized. He hooded figure would proceed to the bar area where he would slowly sit down on the stool. Once again keeping the silence he had brought in with him

[02:11] Lord Talon walked in slowly his face hidden from all to see. The force around him pulsated as he walked in, each step he took created a soft tick that would echo across the room before drowed out by music. He then looked at the grey robed figure, his scent was masked but he could easily distinguish it from their past incounters. “Ah master Raven Tal” he said with a grin “It seems we meet again”

[02:13] Raven Tal (aaronsterling1) chuckled lightly as his head remained facing forward "It seems I've found you" he said in a low tone of voice as he stood up from his chair and faced Cyprus. Feeling the immense hate that radiated off of the sith warrior. His hands would extend outwards as the jedi warrior's lightsaber flew to his hands and ignighted, the blue blade humming to life.

[02:19] Lord Talon would simply grin at the comment that ordered him out. Instead he would enclose both muscular hands slowly around the hilt of the customized duel phase fouth generation saber as his skilled digets of his fingers locked into place. The weapon reacted to the brush of his touch in which followed a sudden snap and hiss igniting forth an extensive blood shine blade that illuminated the dark room. He gave a slight flourish of the imense blade as he twirled it between his hands before grasping it in a double djem power stance as he looked at the jedi that stood before him as a slight growle escaped from his teeth

[02:20] -Shiva- X -Shev'la Dinii- (ellisa01.turbo) drew her blaster pistols them, aiming one at the sith and then another at the jedi. With her fingers over the trigger she would then shout. "Oi, the fuck out of the establishment, now. Yo uare ruining business."

[02:21] Cyprus Talon (arijonas1) inclined his head slowly, tiping forth his chin in a silent acknowledgement of Lord Talon's invitation. His immense hands had enclosed around the enlongated staff hilt of his legendary blade and drew it close in a duel handed battle stance of Djem So in mirror of Talon's own. The laser blade gave a banshee wail as it whirled about suddenly in a brilliant flourish within the skilled flow of his hands, creating a whirlwind like effect of weaving blue blade before him as he approached abruptly foward, unleashing a controled thrust foward of the extensively long blade towards Talochest as he looked at the mando figure "I wouldnt shoot if I where you my friend" he said as he lunged forward

[ As if the style and names didn’t give it away, here he posted Raven’s post from the Cyprus account, then tries to cover in OOC ]

[02:23] Cyprus Talon (arijonas1): (whoops trying to send that back to him) [02:23] Raven Tal (aaronsterling1): (i sent him that post lol and he was meant to check it and send it back incase i missed something lol) [02:23] Raven Tal (aaronsterling1): (so just count that as my post so i dont have to re post lol)

[02:27] Lord Talon grinned slightly as he saw him lundge at him. He was more than prepared to dodge such an attack. He would side step away from the blade as he used his own to push it aside as he spun inwards and attempted to knock the side of the saber into Raven's head using his immense speed and strength that was fuled by his darkside enriched powers.

[ Some OOC arguing happened here, as Cyprus did not seem happy other people where interjecting in his fight..with himself, so back to the IC..]

[02:37] Raven Tal (aaronsterling1) moved around the woman standing there as he took into account the woman standing there as he simply rolled around her preventing her from getting in the middle. having maintained direct control over the fluid motion of the drive of the blazing red blade as it plunged forth from Lord Talon to his head, he would not overextend his balance and thus allowed him to counteract the strike to his head from Talon's own saber. There was a cracking hiss as the searing blades would connect he would extend a hand to Talons stomach he would attempt to push the Sith outward of the club to prevent any other distubance of the people inside, this was a jedi's fight, not theirds. And he would do whatever it took to finish it

[02:39] Lord Talon Eyes opened wide as he got hit by the force push, he was send flying out of the room as he then regained his balance by sliding across the floors with his boots that brought him to a halt. As he griped his lightsaber once more ready for Raven. He knew the jedi wouldn’t let the others get in the way so he left them alone and would focus on the jedi who he faced.

[ More OOC arguing about other people interjecting who then called for defenders choice RHCS, admin sides with them. ]

[02:49] Sihivus Verne: ((While V may not have been directly attacked, it is a club. Considering their club is being shot up, they are welcome to take action as judging per group defender roles)) [02:49] Cyprus Talon (arijonas1): (sighs  fine just let me and Raven finish because this was an really important rp taht had to be done and this was a sim we chose to meet at we didnt think others would get involved like this and lead to this ooc)

[ Extra hillarious when it is fairly obvious they’re the same ^  argument continues, eventually RHCS fight happens, Cyprus losses to the club bouncer. Of course the Jedi was mysteriously afk during the fight.. ]

[03:17] Raven Tal (aaronsterling1): (ugg sorry about that everyone can someone fill me in on what happened, if anything happened in ims thanks!))

.[03:20] Eva Lekach: ( It's ok they got the Sith you are saved. )

[03:20] Eva Lekach: ( back ic )

[03:20] Raven Tal (aaronsterling1): (i could have taken him lol)

[03:22] Lord Talon: m would be dragged out into the sidewalk of the the streets of the undercity as he chuckled lightly as he cluched his shoulder which had a bullet wound in it. after she let him go he would get onto a knee placeing on hand on the ground to stabalize himself as his sith coloed eyes looked at Shiva with long hatred. "I will find you and I will kill you, if you have family I sudgest you hide them for I will kill them.  You will cry out in pain beggin for death and i will not grant it to you, your pain will be that of 1000 dying souls.: he said as he collapesed onto his back and attempted to roll of the edge of the platform

[03:29] Raven Tal (aaronsterling1) shook his head "An interesting character Cyprus is, as stupid as his creator aparently" he said with a sigh looking to Sparrow "I'm sorry if he disturbed anything here, I mearly came by word of mouth that whe would be here, now it seems that I didnt need them." he said turning to Shiva "As for me, I do need them"

[03:29] Raven Tal (aaronsterling1) "when I leave"

[ The End.  Now while that was a few years back, he can’t use the “I was young” excuse, he was in his 20′s at the time as he’s now pushing 30, so this isn’t a case of ‘kids being dumb’.  This is a blatant abuse of alts IC, and clear attempts of deception OOC.  This pattern continued OOC elsewhere.. ]

[2013/11/02 01:34]  Raven Tal (aaronsterling1): And there is one thing I want to get clear, whats the big deal if I am an alt, or an old account of someone, which I am my old account got deleted and couldnt be recovered, Look the only reason im still in swrp is to get the rp back up and going between groups, thats why i cam because I know you guys are doing that do. Otherwise I would have given up swrp a long time ago, we all see it deteriating slowly and all I want to do is fix that, and I dont want to do this if people have anegative aditute twoards it. Honestly if I did something that got you upset please tell me and I can fix it! Please, I'm not sure what I did wrong, mearly came to say hello oocly thats all, nothign more nothing less then I got bombarded with questions. Im just confused is all [2013/11/02 01:35]  Chaos DarkRose (nymph.zenith): alts are fine, but pretending to be an elder ooc is not and might get you banned in some places. [2013/11/02 01:37]  Raven Tal (aaronsterling1): what are you talking about lol Ive been around for a very long time in swrp. Back when the soverignty existed and besipin was still going strong and coursant was a dominant system, Ive been around for a while, my old sith master was MagmaRyu, he was one of the most well respected sith back when I was an apprentice and I was very luck to have him as a master otherwise I woulndt be her today [2013/11/02 01:37]  Raven Tal (aaronsterling1): So I'm not making anything up [2013/11/02 01:37]  Raven Tal (aaronsterling1): there would be no reason to [2013/11/02 01:38]  Chaos DarkRose (nymph.zenith): that is not old [2013/11/02 01:39]  Raven Tal (aaronsterling1): thats about 5 years ago that im talking about [2013/11/02 01:39]  Raven Tal (aaronsterling1): 6 probably now [2013/11/02 01:39]  Chaos DarkRose (nymph.zenith): well log on and lets see, if you are as old as ranogar [2013/11/02 01:39]  Chaos DarkRose (nymph.zenith): he would remember back then [2013/11/02 01:40]  Raven Tal (aaronsterling1): i cant, my account was deleted my some ass, honestly how else can i prove this to you haha [2013/11/02 01:40]  Chaos DarkRose (nymph.zenith): do you realize how many times i've heard this? Over the span of almost 8 years?

[00:57] Cyprus Talon (arijonas1): Raven came to me earlier today and seemed upset and confused by something you said, hes a dear friend of mine so if I could, what did you say to him? [00:58] Chaos DarkRose (nymph.zenith): i have no idea what you are talking about [00:58] Cyprus Talon (arijonas1): Raven Tal, he said he talked to you the other day...

Besides learning how to use spell check? there has been little growth in Cyprus, he’s still someone who utilizes OOC methods to gain IC power.  When he failed to make a mark legitimately, he now tries to buy the status. Rewarding those who support him with high combat system ranks or even real money in some cases.  So like I said, going after Loosh and Uni was dumb on my part as I enabled the rise of the most corrupt motherfucker in SWRP.  So there is some obligation to raise transparency and awareness of some of his past antics. Some of his past names even seem to be banned by Linden Labs, I couldn’t tell you why but found that interesting. Take all of that for what you will. I’ve provided materials to backup pretty much everything I’ve ever said on him, it is a rarity when you have to speculate so little to illustrate what a colossal garbage person someone is.   Play where you wanna play and do what you wanna do, but do it with eyes wide open.

Their platform is the exact same pledge they made in 2017, just a couple weeks before they destroyed a sim many people had worked hard on..

8-22-17 “Star Wars Universe Town Hall Agenda”; created by Sebastiion

“This notecard will explain what we will be talking about in more detail during the Townhall Meeting, as well as explaining a little more about Star Wars Universe. The purpose of Star Wars Universe is to strive to create a multi sim roleplay experience, executed through Star Wars Roleplay groups within the community. In light of recent events, and in the past couple of years of roleplay, the community has drifted far from what is used to be. By working together and by leaders stepping up to the plate we can accomplish a community that speaks for all of us instead of only one individual.

What will we be talking about?

*Why has Star Wars Roleplay fallen apart.*

*How Star Wars Universe can play a huge role in restoring trust within our community.*

*How Corellia, Dantooine, and other key sims can play a supporting role in this.**

Why it's important that the leadership within the community drives their ideas from its *entire* player base, and not just from a *few* key leaders.*

*The future of Star Wars Roleplay and how we can make this project a success.*

Once these topics have been addressed there will be a time for questions, comments, suggestions, etc. Remember this movement is a grassroots movement that starts with you. Attending this town hall and making your voice's heard can help shape the future of Star Wars Universe. The link will be posted in a notice an hour before we begin.”

I guess they changed their mind by  9/4/2017 when they returned the sim :(, point being, they are full of false promises, and pretty much anyone would be a favorable alternative to having these meta-gaming scam artists continue to assert influence over the community.   

------------

“Dark Lord”  lolo, not sure if I’ve ever seen a case of someone less deserving.

[03:22] Lord Talon: m would be dragged out into the sidewalk of the the streets of the undercity as he chuckled lightly as he cluched his shoulder which had a bullet wound in it. after she let him go he would get onto a knee placeing on hand on the ground to stabalize himself as his sith coloed eyes looked at Shiva with long hatred. "I will find you and I will kill you, if you have family I sudgest you hide them for I will kill them.  You will cry out in pain beggin for death and i will not grant it to you, your pain will be that of 1000 dying souls.: he said as he collapesed onto his back and attempted to roll of the edge of the platform

[cavefelix]

The Orc Library: Non-Fiction, 600-699

(Wondering what this is? Here’s the intro.)

There’s some good news and bad news about medicine books in the library. The good news: the anatomy books look magnificent. The bad news: everything else is horrible, and nobody knows this.

In our society, at this level of technology the understanding of anatomy was really weak due to taboos about violating the dead to study it. As mentioned in the section on Mysteries, orcs learn how to identify wounds made by different weapons at a young age. Over the centuries, there have been lots of examinations and drawings of victims on the battlefield, and comparisons to those who die by other means. I thought about going into more detail of the process, but figured that the squeamish might not like hearing too much.

The result is that the Orc Library probably has the most detailed anatomical drawings in the world -- largely of orcs, though some of just about any sentients they’ve waged significant wars against --  with detailed close-ups of bones, musculature, organs, etc. The drawings are so good that one of the books is stained because when a page with a drawing of a bone was left open, the family wolf tried to lick it, thinking it was real. (The librarians determined the damage was minor; had it been bad enough they’d have budgeted to repair the page as much as possible, passing the expense along if they thought the patron was to blame.)

There are two tragedies here, though. First, few physicians are aware of the resources this library could offer. The minor enlightenment going on in human society would benefit greatly from this, but they’d never consider looking to Orc medical books for advice, because every other race knows orc medicine is horrible. (Even orcs don’t think of these as necessarily medical. Some of these books are catalogued as art.)

One reason for the extensive illustration of wounds is that treatment for an injury depends on what inflicted says orc science. According to one popular book, if someone is cut with a sword, a doctor might rub it with a raw bird’s liver so the iron taste of the liver draws out the iron of the blade. But if they are cut with a halberd, an ointment made with fermented fruits must be applied with a piece of straw.  When a half-elf druid watching one treatment mentioned that his elders had taught him to wash any wound with clear spring water and bandage it, one orc doctor couldn’t stop laughing.

If someone is offering to treat you with some of the medical advice books here -- and some of them are probably more folk remedies than based on any theory whatsoever -- say no. At best, you’ll get a placebo effect.

Fortunately, a lot of orcs don’t like to get medical treatment, believing it’s a sign of weakness to see a doctor. Also fortunately, the placebo effect is pretty good in making you feel better, if the doctor doesn’t actively make things worse. Still, if you need healing in Roc Claw, try the temple, not the surgery.

Let’s move on to the more interesting books in the 600s.

There are a fair number of cookbooks/domestic books. Normally the primary housekeeper in a family (orcs never had “housewives,” though sometimes one parent does more of the childcare and cooking than the other). It’s pretty common for them to keep a journal of recipes, tips for getting blood stains out of fabrics, tricks for dealing with a colicky baby, etc. About a dozen have been donated to the library. You’ve also got a guide from the head chef of the Chieftain of Fang Valley detailing his recipes.

Orc cuisine tends to be non-fussy, but it’s wrong to think that it’s just throwing meat on a fire until it’s charred. First of all, they eat a much wider varieties of meat than we do. They’re good hunters, but not so good that they can just use prime cuts of venison and throw away the less tasty organ meats. And if you’ve killed a manticore that was terrorizing the town, why let all that meat go to waste? Only the stinger is inedible, even if a lot of the rest of it is chewy and stringy.

Orcs are also big fans of bold seasoning. They often create pungent marinades and use strong spices. While these are primarily for flavor and not for health, other civilizations describe the cuisine as rich in warming spices.

As hinted at earlier, Del’kar, the patron god of Roc Claw, loves spicy foods. There’s a list of common dishes to be prepared on his feast days, some of which are best made with chilis imported from hundreds of miles away. Another uses almost equal parts meat and horseradish in a stew.

Vegetables are usually garnish, though there’s a fair number of ‘mock meat’ dishes for times of poverty or lean hunting, where you try to get vegetables to have the texture or flavor of meat. Lots of mushrooms.

Orc desserts are not bad, but lack any subtlety at all. Many are cloyingly sweet. One calls for fruit to be poached in honey, cooled and rolled in sugar, and served with a syrup. Others are a combination of sweetness with mouth puckeringly sour ingredients.

There’s quite a few other cookbooks from other races as well.  I won’t go into all the details, but if you’re cooking, remember that measurements are almost completely informal. When an orc says ‘add half a glass of this ingredient’ she usually means half of a large stein. An elf probably refers to a much tinier vessel designed to bring out the full flavor of their intricate wines.

Despite popular belief, orcs do not eat the flesh of sentient humanoids. There is a cookbook which includes a recipe for roast human in one of the volumes in the library submitted as a popular example of troglodyte cooking. That book was actually written by a human, though, and some people think it was made up to play up how horrible troglodytes can be.

SIdebar: A sample orc recipe

Double stone stew is a stew made with basilisk and plums (which are a stone fruit, thus the name). It is considered a festive dish because you need to hunt a dangerous creature to make it. Here is an authentic orc recipe from the library for it, and a version that you can try at home.

Take off the head for it be unhealthy to look at and then to the orchard go and gather a helmet and half again a helmet of plums that are best in summer. If the basilisk were killed in winter, use scant half a helmet of dried plums soaked. Add to these four salamander peppers that have been crushed with a fishful of onions wild and herbs redolent of the earth. Mix thusly with honey and strong plum wine till it makes a thin paste and place this in a large pot. Cover close and leave near a small flame from noon until sunset. To plate it best is with humor.

Since basilisk meat is outlawed in most places around here, I’m substituting. Apparently it tastes a lot like iguana, but that isn’t really available  where I live so I’m using brisket for an earthy taste. I’m also assuming you don’t live near an orchard and will be simplifying the preparation a lot:

1 large (8-10 pound) brisket

1 jar (32 ounces) of plum sauce

3 habanero peppers, finely diced

2 large onions, chopped

Salt to taste

1 teaspoon dried thyme

1 teaspoon dried rosemary

1 cup slivovitz or plum wine

2 cups water, or more alcohol

Put all ingredients in a large pot. Cover it tightly. Bake in a 275 degree oven for five to six hours. The dish is often served in a slightly silly fashion. Sometimes a toy action figure is placed on the edge of the platter, as if the dish has turned it to stone. For a more adult version, two large oranges, onions or similar round foods are placed on either side towards the rear of the long brisket, making a risque double stone meaning.

[Adventure seed: You know that human doctors might be able to do something with all this knowledge of where a spleen actually is, if you can just convince them to come and visit the section. Good luck overcoming the prejudice and explaining the idea of a lending library.]

[Adventure seed: Or maybe you think those anatomy books are works of beauty. If you could find other illustrations by the writer they’re probably worth a lot of money. Adventure time!]

[Adventure seed: You’ve been going out with someone for a while, and they say they miss their mother’s famous jackelope and rust monster stew. They have the recipe but are a lousy cook. You agree to make it. Now all you need to do is find the rare beasts and strange ingredients, and decipher the horrible shorthand in the recipe. Remember: do not use a metal knife to butcher the rust monster!]

[goldeagleprice]

Letters to the Editor (Apr. 17, 2017)

Mint needs years to win back its customers

Declining sales at the U.S. Mint are the result of a combination of factors.

If a survey were taken, the Mint might be surprised by the number of collectors who will no longer purchase coins directly from the Mint.

Ordering problems, inability to purchase desired coins, preference given to bulk buyers, unpredictable ordering periods, high premiums on items offered, and lower prices on the secondary market have been frequent complaints in recent years.

As an example, note how often “Product Currently Unavailable” appears on the website. Who wants to waste time checking the site daily to see if the product is now available? Either the product is sold out, or sell it to your customers. When a customer sees “sold out,” that event represents a lost sale.

This year, the Mint is introducing a new mistake: the Cancer Awareness gold commemorative contains only 85 percent gold. In reducing the gold content from the traditional 90 percent and changing color to pink, gold bugs may not buy it. If the coin’s value drops to bullion melt, coin dealers won’t like seeing a coin requiring a new computation to figure intrinsic value and offer less for their trouble.

In reducing the percent of gold content, the Mint is debasing its product. In the long run, this cannot be a good marketing strategy, as the mints of other countries continue to sell coins with greater precious metals content.

Until the Mint comes up with another idea that brings in new collectors, like the state quarters program did, sales may lag.

The Mint will need years to rebuild the customer base and regain the trust of collectors who felt mistreated in the past. Customer retention has not seemed to be a priority. The business model may need to change.

Bruce R. Frohman Modesto, Calif.

  Dime rolls out of change machine instead of cent

Know your money. Yesterday at a major grocery store, my change came to $1.01. The cashier, also a manager, gave me my receipt, coupon and $1 bill. I scooped, out of the coin cup dispenser, a dime; not a score from the customer before me. I saw it roll into the cup. I held my opened hand out to the cashier. A dime instead of a cent. Had someone loaded the machine wrong? I got the impression that this happened before. Keep watching your change.

Name withheld Yucca Valley, Calif.

Philadelphia cent back to having no mintmark

I thought the new cent for 2018 from Philadelphia Mint would not have the “P” on it because last year was special. I may have read some of your readers writing they’ve found 2018 cents with no “P” on it.

Sorry this is minutiae.

Anyway, read with some interest your reader from Queens (New York City) who said new coins don’t get to NYC readily. I was really surprised by that, having lived most of my early life in New York. Boston’s not that much better, or maybe worse!

Name withheld

Editor’s note: You are quite right. There is no “P” on the Philadelphia cent in 2018. The “P” on the 2017 was to mark the 225th anniversary of the founding of the U.S. Mint. It was a one-year deal.

Club service includes buying new coins in bulk

In response to your recent Blog question of March 19, 2018, in The Buzz of “Who is buying Kennedy halves clad bags and rolls from the Mint?” I wanted to answer as follows.

The Garfield Heights Coin Club offers a terrific service to its members. The club purchases the Sac dollars and Kennedy halves (and previously Presidential dollar) coins in bulk from the Mint and then sells the coins to its members at our meetings for double face value. This is a terrific service and benefit to the club members.

The club also annually purchases the Red Book in bulk and offers them for sale to its members that order them. This way the members that are interested in purchasing these can keep up their sets or their personal library of reference books.

Also club leadership and other club members frequently bring in back issues of Numismatic News, auction catalogs and reference books and give them away to members who are interested. This all promotes the hobby in a very cost effective way.

Truth be told, although I am probably the biggest opponent to investing in modern-day clad coins, there is still the collector in me who likes to keep up my sets, and although double face is a higher premium than if I were to buy these coins in bulk, I am only buying one or two coins, so it’s not a big outlay to be able to fill holes in my book.

Some members actually buy whole rolls at a time, because it’s still more convenient, and this keeps up their roll sets. In any case, these are some of the benefits of joining a coin club and networking with a great fun group of people that are dedicated to the wholesome hobby of coin collecting.

Robert Matitia Garfield Heights Coin Club member Ohio

Another location in North Carolina gets new cents

I received my first 2018 cent in change from an automated checkout line at my local supermarket on Monday, March 5. Bob Klippstein Greensboro, N.C.

  Copper rounds worth holding for five or 10 years

Some time back, I had inquired about copper rounds. You advised me to use caution in looking at copper rounds. The same goes for silver rounds, from what I remember.

In early January, I did get seven rounds for $11. Not a bad purchase for them. The show was here in Sherman, Texas. On April 7, a show will be in nearby Paris, Texas. Hopefully, I will be able to get more copper rounds at similar pricing. This is a good deal to get and sit for five to 10 years on them. A few may be had for gift giving.

I hope to be correct in making a small profit. With silver at about $16.60 or less per ounce, it may still be a bargain, with paying a spot price on it. Just an observation on my part.

Gary Kess Sherman, Texas

  World has changed and hobby changed with it

I recently restarted my subscription to your nice magazine and was pleased to see you continue as editor. In my 22nd year of retirement, my numismatic interests remain. However, my days of accumulation have ended. In fact, my choice material is gone.

Now I enjoy the “sport” from a distance. Even the piece of the industrial world I served while employed has virtually disappeared.

The March 6 “Viewpoint” by Richard Francis caught the real spirit of numismatics, in my feeling. Registry Set building, multiple crack-outs and other similar moves were not the spirit of my game. Numismatics is more than that.

It is history, it’s educational, and much more. It can be a lifetime of enjoyment with good people of similar interests.

If memory serves, we shared time in the plastics world. Unfortunately, I was not aware of your obviously strong attachment to numismatics. An old saying goes something like this: “I do not regret what I have done. I regret what I have not done.” I wish we could have shared stories.

Name withheld

  Time to mint circulating $25 or $50 silver coin

Just read the article (NN March 6, 2018) “Little notice paid to tenth-ounce gold.” The article should have been titled, “How many modern coins does someone want to collect or can afford to collect?” Maybe it is a good thing that gold and silver coins are not selling like hotcakes. Maybe, just maybe, they will sell so few that modern coins may be worth collecting again someday.

Now my reason for writing is regarding the 244,890 proof silver Eagles that were reported as sold. Considering that the proof Eagle sells for $55, which is more than three times the spot price of silver, what would you expect? Yes, the proof silver Eagle is a beautiful coin, and while many collectors buy them, it makes little sense to buy more than one – not for $55, anyway. For many years, many collectors purchased four or more. It’s just not happening anymore. Again, the proof silver Eagle is a beautiful coin. But so is the bullion silver Eagle. Compare $55 to $20.

Make no mistake about it, the 21st century U.S. Mint produces a quality product, especially for gold and silver. So much so that I would say over 90 percent of those 244,890 proof coins could be graded Proof-69 or -70. Very few of these proof Eagles will ever be melted or damaged. There will always be over 200,000 quality coins. And the proof silver Eagle will always be worth the price of bullion.

Similar analogies can be made for other silver and gold coins being sold by the Mint. The Mint needs to jump start interest in sales. Why not kill two birds with one stone? Produce a silver coin for collectors that could be used for circulation. Mint a $10, $20, $25 or even a $50 silver coin and sell it to collectors for a net profit to the Mint of $10 to $15 per coin. At least the coin will always be worth face value

The Mint will make a good profit on each coin. The collector will never be hurt that badly. And it may help coin circulation. Try it for one or two years. Something needs to be done, or the hobby will revert back to only the hobby of kings and queens.

Dom Cicio Groveland, Fla.

  Gold wins in new race with Bitcoin

A question was asked, “Would I rather invest in gold or Bitcoins?”

I would go for the gold, simply because gold has been around since money was created and always had high value throughout history. Even though ancient coins don’t have a stated value, their gold content has a scrap/melt value.

At the time of this writing, gold is up around $1,300+ an ounce. More modern coins have a stated face value, which could be honored should the melt fall greatly to below the coin’s face value.

I’m not sure if there are physical (real) Bitcoins or the composition of one (if it exists at all). But the Bitcoin is a virtual item where two or more parties agree to a value. (Almost like the current fiat money used today?) Any Bitcoin minted on metal is probably on base metal, and no melt value other than whatever scrap value that coin is stamped on. Even though a Bitcoin may be worth hundreds or thousands of dollars by its holder, it’s not worth anything to me. The value of Bitcoins can go either up or down – to nothing.

I’ll take a nice solid gold coin any day. It’s something I can see and hold.

Bill Tuttle, Cleveland, Ohio

  Too many different labels on slabs with same coins

About six months ago, I did a count of all the different ways Numismatic Guaranty Corporation offered the same 2017 silver Eagle. I think the number I found came to 14.

All the coins were the same, but the slabs were different. White Label, Black Label, Brown Label, Silver Foil, Purple Heart, Signed, First Strike, Early Strike, First Day of Issue, 225th Anniversary, and on and on. This is just getting way too crazy!

The third-party graders should stick to grading and not creating collectible slabs for every day of the week, signed by everyone and their brother, to celebrate all occasions under the sun. Just where will it end??

Ken Freeze Martinez, Calif.

  This article was originally printed in Numismatic News. >> Subscribe today.

  More Collecting Resources

• The 1800s were a time of change for many, including in coin production. See how coin designs grew during the time period in the Standard Catalog of World Coins, 1801-1900 .

• Download The Metal Mania Seminar with David Harper to learn more about the metals market.

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