#Don't worry I'm sure 6e will come up with whole new bits of conflicting information to make everything even more confusing

[y-rhywbeth2]

Hello! Do vampire spawn explicitly need consent to drink their master’s blood or is it more that they physically/mentally aren’t able to because their master has control over them? I figured it was fairly vague and open to different interpretations. For example, Cazador can stop Astarion in his tracks to keep him from attacking him or even order the spawn to torture themselves, but at the end of the big fight, he’s too weak to even try to stop Astarion from stabbing him.

What’s stopping spawn from drinking their master’s blood when they’re too weak to deny them? If it’s taken without consent would they suck-sessfully (sorry 😅) turn into a true vampire or would they stay spawns?

Ah, vague descriptions that are open to interpretation - It's not truly D&D if these don't exist so that the table can derail the game for six hours arguing about it.

EDIT: Ohhh I just noticed I answered a different question to what you asked. Sorry. Half-asleep.

Honestly. No idea about the stabbing. I'll try to answer that again in the morning and my brain works again.

if Cazador has forbidden Astarion from attempting to biting him or otherwise attempting to drink his blood then I imagine Astarion can't do so. Cazador's orders stand, regardless of if his spawn has the upper hand at the moment. Of course, if Shadowheart temporarily disables Cazador's commands with her Turn Undead ability, then Astarion can ignore those commands.

EDIT 2: And obviously, the tadpole and Astarion being severely triggered and more interested in the vampire+ package of ascension was a large part of it.

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But what I was babbling about regarding the need for blood, because I'm fond of it:

Disclaimer; I don't think this was intended at all, but it's there!

Prior to 3.5e vampire spawn wasn't even a separate category. An enslaved vampire had all the abilities of their master. (And - back before we had to deal with the lingering bullshit effects of 4e carrying over - spawn were still basically on the same level as their masters; the only thing ascended Astarion would've been able to do that his unascended self couldn't would've been the ability to turn into or summon/control bats (and wolves and rats), which is honestly a trivial difference) What caught my eye here is that 3.5e also had an interesting thing in that not all of the new creations of a vampire were spawn: more powerful individuals rose from their grave with the whole powerset already unlocked (what 5e terms a "true" vampire), but they were still under their killer's control.

The blood drinking is a new element added in 5e, which is how a spawn "transform" into true vampires now. Freeing a vampire from control is a separate thing that all the editions have answered, blood drinking has never been related to emancipation.

Stick to a pure 3.5e reading (and an interpretation of 5e's) and a vampire can free a spawn without them unlocking their full power.

1e - 3.5e, when we put it up against 5e's new "spawn/true" divide, have established that being a "true" vampire or becoming one is a separate factor to being controlled.

A vampire holds control over those it kills, whether they're full vampire or spawn. A vampire could turn its spawn into a full vampire without surrendering control. A spawn can be freed without them becoming a true vampire.

So if we follow this reading, if Astarion could drink Cazador's blood without Cazador granting his freedom, Astarion would become a full vampire but still be under his master's control. (Vampires being paranoid and territorial, even if he can still control them, Cazador probably wouldn't want to make his spawn stronger, so that wouldn't happen)

Anyway, now we're starting to go into the realms of there being no RAW to follow.

Can a spawn drink from their dead master's blood and still gain power? Does it have to be their own master's blood, or will any "true" vampire do the job? We have no answers for this, so you'll have to decide for yourself.

Welcome to the wonderful world of DM fiat: the loophole can be made, and taken out of all proportion. I imagine someone's going to be a killjoy about this, but I stand by what I said here and I don't care