#And of course Frieza and his family and their race don't believe in the gods

[nimedhel09]

Dragon Ball headcanons - Part Three, the Godly Edition (1/2)

Well, hello there! Been a while since we touched on headcanons!

I'm still working on the Saiyan pantheon and decided that, well, since I already have publishable matieral for this subject, why not post it first? Why wait to finish a quite intense and lengthy process of creating a whole freaking belief system from nothing, when I have this already written down and ready to post?

So, instead of just doing one post on Deities and Religions in the DBverse that's going to be way too long... I'll post this bit first!

We're talking about belief systems for: Earth, Namek and the Icejins (I'm still thinking of them as Arcosians and I will not be stopped, but for the sake of everyone who does not agree with this HC that is so not canon, I have also referred to them as Icejins. You're welcome).

Earth

- Kami is the planet's deity. Some call him The Almighty.

- Rituals, rites and adoration vary depending on the place and culture. Some Earthlings, though, aren't really religious and don't think Kami really exists.

- The tribe living in the land of Karin also adore Karin as a lesser deity.

- Poppo is a genie, and he's immortal. Though he can die if killed (Buu, or if the Earth is destroyed... you know).

- The guardian of Earth, "kami" can be granted a longer lifespan if they are human, since they receive a tiny bit of godly ki. However, in the case of Kami, that didn't affect his biology at all. It even seems that he's grown older quicker compared to other Namekians, but that could be because of his separation in two.

- Also, the first "kami" of the Earth didn't ask for their successor to be 100% pure of heart. It is something that got added through the centuries as one of the "kami" was quite strict.

- Yeah, they don't know about the kais, Kaioshin, god of destruction and all the like. Quite a "primitive" world compared to a lot of others who are more in tune with the order of the Universe.

And yeah, that's it for the Earth lol.

Namek

- They don't really have a religion? It's more like spirituality, animism. They adore the world they live in and its nature.

- They show their devotion to their world by tending the Agisa trees, which were nearly wiped out in the Namekian cataclysm that also nearly destroyed the Nameks (and saw Kami, the nameless Namekian, son of Katas, come to Earth as an egg).

- Namekians see all life as important, and their love for it is made quite easy with the fact that they only need to drink water, and thus, never need to hurt another being.

- They know about all the godly and ungodly people (kais, kaioshin, makaioshin, god of destruction and angel, Zeno-sama... you know... they KNOW). They don't adore them or anything, but they respect them, and they know that they are deities. It's just, not important?

The Arcosians/Icejins

- They know of the God of destruction, but that's it. They are so not religious, but have a god complex as a race. It's really lucky for them that Beerus never went to their planet, and that the PTO is useful in doing Beerus's job for him so he can nap all he wants. They might have been hakai-ed otherwise lol.

The ACTUAL hierarchy of the main deities of the DBverse

Yeah, it might seem unnecessary to some, but, I have thoughts. So let's gooooooo with what the kais and other such deities that look after more than one planet/race/whatever do and what their hierarchy is actually like.

Princess Snake: oh you forgot about her? I definitely did NOT. The creator of Snake way, all the Snake ways, though, for all four cardinal kais. She is the lowest in terms of hierarchy, but her role is quite important, as she created the way for worthy souls to travel to the cardinal kais. That's her main role. And sometimes, she puts souls to the test (and eats the tasty ones that don't pass it, scary). And yeah, she has a thing for mammalian male warriors. She and Raditz are an item (oh, you thought I didn't get that tidbit that Raditz was able to flee Hell and live with Princess Snake???? mwahahahha!).

Enma (or Yemma or whatever it is his name is translated as where you live): he is the overseer of the check-out station. His role is vital for Otherworld, as he oversees every. Single. Soul. That gets to Otherworld. He sends them either to Hell, Elysium (that's how I'll call paradise because it looks like the Greek mythical place, so nanana) or one of the cardinal kais. Strength-wise? Well, he's quite strong, but what makes him fearsome? He has the ability to control any mortal soul that comes into his domain. His weakness? He can't control the staff that comes from the demon realm, so if they get corrupted (Janemba!), he can't do anything about it. His jurisdiction is just the check-out station; Hell and Elysium are overseen by Demons, who answer to the kais from their quadrant, Daioukai (if they're on his planet) and makaioshin.

Cardinal kais: They live on planets located just between Hell and Elysium so that, if there is an issue on their side of Otherworld, they are able to sense it and report to Grand Kai. They also keep watch on the quadrant of the Universe they are located in, making sure that things are in balance. If they are not, and there is an issue that needs addressing, they either send one of their champions, or, if it is dire enough, they contact the Kaioshin. When it comes to strength, they are stronger than Frieza individually, but even together, they are not as strong as Perfect Cell. Their energy and aura is different from mortals, as they are born deities. However, it can be somewhat felt still.

Grand Kai: Oversees Otherworld. Their planet is located way over Elysium, but in the same plane of existence than all of Otherworld (easier to oversee it, ey?). Their energy is similar to the cardinal kais, although They are physically and magically stronger.

Makaioshin: Rulers of the Demon Realm, which is a parallel dimension to Otherworld. They oversee Demons, but also Hell when it is needed. They are far stronger than the Grand Kai, and stronger in prowess than the Kaioshin, but they are not so when it comes to magic.

Kaioshin: deities of creation. They care for all of Creation, as in, they oversee all of the Universe they are born in. They have the power to create stars, solar systems and life. They are very strong magically but not so when it comes to fighting prowess (stronger than Cell, but quite weaker than Buu), as their main purpose is not to destroy, but create. Their ki, like all deities, is different from mortals. Their aura feels soothing, even for people who aren't ki sensitive.

Hakaishin: Balance between creation and destruction is needed, so, whereas a Kaioshin is made to create, a Hakaishin is made to destroy. It means they are extremely powerful when it comes to strength and ki manipulation, though, as they are deities, it is not the same kind of power as mortals. Weirdly enough, Hakaishin are not born deities, but mortals, and are chosen by the angel of their Universe to become a Hakaishin. As such, they are trained by the Angel themselves and granted godly ki. Their aura is unsettling.

Kaioshin of Time: for each Universe, there is a Time deity that makes sure that the flow of time if respected, and acts if something is too amiss. They have patrollers at their service that come from parallel timelines. They oversee all of the flow of all of the Universe. Their power is not physical, but magical, and is very vast.

Angels: their role is to guide and teach hakaishins, as well as be their attendants. They obey only to the Daishinkan and Zeno-sama. They are also required to be neutral to mortal matters. They have both the ability to destroy and create. Angels are truly immortal, contrary to the previous deities, and the only way for them to be killed is to be "eradicated" (a power only the Daishinkan and Zeno seem to possess). They live in a plane of existence outside of the Universes. It's also different from the Zeno's palace and in a very different location.

Grand Priest/Daishinkan: Well, he's the father of the angels (all 13 of them, and I'm inferring that it was magical births/creation out of "nothing", because angels are immortal beings and why would they follow silly mortal ways of reproduction?) of the 12 Universes that still exist (+1 destroyed), but he's also the adviser to Zeno-sama. He is also the "public figure" for Zeno-sama, meaning that he's the one that communicates all of Zeno-sama's messages, rules, wants, etc. to lower lifeforms when Zeno themself is not interested in doing so (which is most of the times, because why would they be interested in such paltry matters?). We barely know anything about him (and I haven't thought about him enough either, so sorry, but you won't learn anything new here, probably), but we do know that he is vastly more powerful in both physical prowess and magical power than anyone in the multiverse outside of Zeno. Everyone, be they hakaishin, kaioshin or other angels, show him the utmost respect, as he is vastly superior to any of them, even the strongest.

Zeno-sama: The omni-king, yay! He seems cute, but beneath the adorable appearance and voice, lies inscrutable power. Zeno is beyond power. Zeno is beyond everything, truly. They are the creator of everything, really, and have the power to just erase it if they feel like it. Their view on life is quite simply indifferent. Why would they care, honestly? On the topic of power: Zeno is not a fighter, there's honestly no need when you're the freaking creator of everything and have the ability to just erase a whole universe with just a flick of your wrist. Their power is unfathomable, truly. Not even the deities outside of angels can comprehend Zeno's magnificence. They live in a place they created for themselves with their attendants and amuse themselves however they see fit.

I will not touch on Zeno's attendants or anything more in-depth about any of the deities here. I need to think about them more for that, hahaha!

Important note: when I talk about "strength", "power", "prowess" or "physical strength", I'm also talking about ki. You know, power scaling, all that, haha! Just wanted to put this out there in case it was not clear enough.

And that's it for now!

[tigerlover16-uk]

What's your take on Jiren's backstory? I don't get the hate, but I also just find it average. This fanbase has a massive tendency of judging before anything happens, too. It's entirely possible for Jiren to get more characterization coming up. This is his and Goku's fight, not just Goku's fight alone.

Well...

I… like the idea of it, but I wish we’d seen more. I agree that it’s cliché, but I don’t really think that’s the problem. Clichés aren’t bad, it’s just how they’re used, and a lot of things become clichés specifically because they work. And when you’re dealing with characters that are half way between being super sentai parody’s, and sentai inspired heroes played straight, of course you’re going to get some cliché elements and backstories. I don’t really know what people were expecting Jiren’s backstory to be, honestly?

The backstory certainly explains a lot about Jiren actions, and adds some depth to him, which he DESPERATELY needed after being a blank slate for too long. 

I hear a lot of people dismissing it with “Well Vegeta and Goku had it worse! The entire saiyan race got wiped out”. Which, I don’t think is entirely fair. Because one, neither characters were really traumatised by that. Goku never knew about the saiyans until he was older, and he just assumed his whole family must have been vicious pirates like Raditz, so Planet Vegeta’s destruction was hardly a tragedy for him (Moreso for his parents). And Vegeta outright admitted he didn’t care about his father or his people’s deaths that much, he just hated being a subject to Frieza when he thought he deserved to be top dog. Despite what anime filler, dub edits and Vegeta’s fanboy’s would have you believe, Vegeta was treated fairly well as a prestigious fighter of the Frieza force. 

His backstory isn’t the thing that makes Vegeta a sympathetic or tragic character, that came with his character development and stuff that happened to him as the story went along. Heck, even when the Bardock special decided to show Vegeta getting word of Planet Vegeta’s destruction, he had an almost non-reaction to it (And yes that’s not the manga so not canon, but it’s the only media to ever show him getting the news of his planets destruction… besides some contradictory filler, I think). So, neither character was actually effected by the tragedy in their pasts like Jiren was to his, so they’re not exactly equivalent. 

Secondly, so what if more people died in Vegeta and Goku’s backstory, and if other characters in the series supposedly had it worse. You don’t go around telling people who lost family in 9/11 to suck it up and move on because there have been worse tragedies throughout human history, which some people are still dealing with the fallout of. So I don’t think it’s entirely fair to write Jiren’s trauma and experiences off like that.

Heck, I don’t even know how much this reveal was intended to elicit sympathy for the character, it feels more like it’s just an explanation for why Jiren is the way he is, and possibly give a justification of why he didn’t just go around eliminating everyone from the start. But I think this explains that theory better than I could: 

https://duhragonball.tumblr.com/post/170764786192/dbs-episode-127

The issue I do have with the backstory though… it kinda feels a tad, too little too late. I mean, I don’t think a lot of people will really argue with me that Jiren’s kind of a flat character personality wise. He’s got an okay design, but mostly he just stands around scowling and having small moments to show off his power. The build up to him and Goku’s first fight was great, and it was an epic showdown where Jiren was an intimidating threat. I actually did find him okay even if he didn’t have much character to him at that point…

But since then we’ve gotten so little insight into his character over a prolonged period of time, with a lot of what we have gotten making him come off as real jerkish. All the while, we’ve gotten to enjoy seeing a lot of more lively and fun characters battling it out with our heroes (And Frieza), that Jiren just doesn’t stand out very much by comparison.

Heck, TOPPO felt like he had so much more going for him and with more substantial, though still mostly subtle, build up to his big moment, to the point that he feels like he should have been the final boss of this tournament instead.

Toppo was amusing, sympathetic, and his more jerkish moments towards the U7 character felt at least understandable when you remember he’s under the impression that Goku, and thus likely his friends by association, is evil and he’s under a ton of stress from this tournament. As awesome as his ascension to God of Destruction levels was, there was also a sense of tragedy to it as we saw him pass the despair event horizon and abandon his ideals to get there. There was a lot more substance to Toppo’s arc.

By comparison, all we knew about Jiren until the latest episode was that he’s ridiculously strong, he can’t be that bad a guy because he is a superhero, he doesn’t talk a lot and likes to fight, and that he wanted the super dragon balls for some reason. He was sold on power and presence, and that was fine at first, but after all this time with so little being done with his character other than toying with Vegeta and Goku to ensure the final fights don’t end too quickly, and his personality still being so flat… the guy just comes off as boring.

I’m glad we do have a backstory now, because at least there’s SOMETHING to his character now. And I’ll admit, I did get the feeling that I wanted to see his story more in depth and see where it might go from here… but, the whole flashback was just way too brief.

I really think they should have spent more of the episode recounting the events of that backstory, if not doing a whole episode flashback with dialogue included. Show us what Jiren’s life was like before his village was massacred. Give us a little bit of his parents personalities and what Jiren’s home life was like. Show us some of the villagers, give faces to the people who were slaughtered. And then give Jiren’s master some actual character and show us more of his training and companions.

I’m not saying the writers needed to do a whole arc about it, but even just a few additions and some dialogue between Jiren and characters shown, and more insight into kid Jiren’s mindset over the course of those events, would have gone SUCH a long way to fleshing him out more and really selling the backstory.

The backstory isn’t bad. It’s just that it took us so long to get here, and it was so underplayed, that it feels almost throw away at this point. Like, I hope you’re right and we do get to see Jiren’s character fleshed out and developed some more in the next few episodes, but with so few episodes left I really don’t feel like they could do that much with his character now.

I think a lot of this could be improved upon if we got a History of Trunks style special dedicated to fleshing out Jiren’s life story, but as it currently stands it feels like there was just a lot of wasted potential with Jiren’s character.

I think that’s why a lot of people are so frustrated by it. Between all the interesting, quirky and better designed characters we’ve gotten in this saga, Jiren as the final boss of the tournament, and with Super as a whole now since it’s ending and we don’t know when we’re getting a sequel, just kind of feels like a let down.

If we’d gotten this backstory a bit earlier, and he had a bit more to his personality (And the fight so far executed a bit better), then his character might have turned out better. But, right now I’m just not invested with him outside of seeing how well animated and spectacular the final fight with him and Goku might turn out to be, and feeling wistful that Toppo went out so quickly.