#.......sorry i rambled so much here. i'm on my meds today 😅

[ravynfyre]

Hi!

I just read the post about what to do if you're disabled and live in a high rise building during a fire.

And I must preface my question by saying that I am not, and never have been, a firefighter or anything at all similar. My only experience with fire safety, has been at a pretty rudimentary level; I've been an instructor at the Norwegian ocean rescue's summer school for 9-12 year olds twice, and have therefore taught children basic fire prevention and management, but ABSOLUTELY focused on the prevention aspect. Because yeah, we want them to know as much as possible, and worst case scenario, we have no doubt that children who have the knowledge, at least have a CHANCE at putting a fire out if they come across it in the very early stages, and for some reason there's no adults there; but we hope they won't be put in that situation in the first place. Especially not on tiny, private, hobby boats, since they get consumed by fire in just a snap...

So MOSTLY, we've focused on how to prevent fires, and for to recognize a dangerous situation. Much "TELL THE ADULTS OFF IF YOU SEE THEM PUT GAS IN SODA BOTTLES OR ANYTHING ELSE THAT AIN'T A PROPER GAS CAN!" (And kids are GOOD at telling adults they're doing stuff wrong).

I'm sorry for the ramble. I'm a currently very sleepy ADHDer who forgot her meds today 😅

SO MY QUESTION IS!!!!

Here in Norway, at least, I THINK high rises (not that we have THAT many, but still) are built with fire containment in mind. In the building regulations. Fire proof walls, floors and ceilings, automatic fire doors here and there, all of that jazz. So I think it's pretty common here to use the "stay put" strategy in case of fire. Because people are supposed to be safe in their own apartments, and only the one where the fire is - or at most; that floor - HAVE to evacuate.

I've recently seen some stuff about the same thing in other European countries. At least regarding modern high rise buildings.

Is that extensive fireproofing a normal thing in modern American high-rise buildings too? Or do you HAVE to escape, at least into the stairwell, even in the most modern buildings?

Greetings! What an excellent question!

So, I have to preface my answer with this caveat: every city gets to make their own building regulations and codes. There is not really one, single, national law about what is allowed or not when it comes to general construction.

HOWEVER! There are organizations that make recommendations about Best Practices, and some small aspects of construction, especially commercial construction, have become either codified as law on a national level, or have become accepted as the only means by which your plans will become certified by an engineer to be built. One such agency is, in fact, the National Fire PREVENTION Agency - NFPA. In the US, the Fire Safety taught from the youngest ages is *also* focused on preventing fires and other emergencies. In fact, even while on duty, most full time fire departments also focus on PREVENTION rather than simply responding after the fact, by doing walk-throughs of businesses and assisting the building inspectors.

Anyway, as for building construction... Yes, the emphasis on building construction is to make all inhabited buildings, especially multi-family residential ones, as fire-resistant as possible. Unfortunately, this is because of times when buildings that *were not* fire resistant burned up and caused fatalities, and so those rules and best practices came along later. So buildings that are built NOW must be built to resist fire and to compartmentalize it to the smallest areas possible, but older buildings may not have these features built in. And because retrofitting some of these features might be cost prohibitive, it is rare to see a city force the building owners to do so. Even things like simply adding sprinklers is often waived until another tragedy hits.

But modern buildings constructed after those codes and rules came into being are, yes, *supposed* to have the prevention and containment features like "fire stops" and fire rated fixtures and fire resistant materials in them. Unfortunately, capitalism being what it is... sometimes these features are too expensive for dishonest builders and they simply ignore the rules.

So to answer your other question, in most modern high rise structures, the general rule of thumb was to "shelter in place" for something like an individual apartment fire. Because the building is supposed to be designed to contain that fire to that individual apartment, anyone who is not directly adjacent or on the same floor as that fire used to be encouraged to remain in their own apartments so as to reduce the number of people trying to evacuate and to reduce the chaos outside. They were thought to be safer inside their own apartments than they would be getting in the way of emergency crews outside.

That philosophy is under some scrutiny now, however, since the Grenfell Fire in England. The danger of the cladding wasn't known until too late, and many MANY people who might have been able to evacuate immediately after the fire was discovered, were killed when they followed the, at the time considered Best Practice of "sheltering in place". So now, here in the US, there is debate about whether it is better to continue to advise to "shelter in place" during most emergencies, or to evacuate immediately.

My *personal* preference, and what *I* will do each time? If the fire alarm is sounding, I am going to evacuate. Is it most likely a false alarm? Yeah. Even if it is a real fire, am I likely going to be in danger where I am? Not likely. But I would honestly rather be safe than sorry, and I am well aware of how to get and stay out of the way of responding emergency workers. (In fact, in 2006, my K9 and I were staying at a hotel in Seattle, Washington, when at 2am, the fire alarm went off. I *knew* it was likely to be burned popcorn - it *always is* in hotels in the middle of the night - but I wasn't going to take that chance with my K9 partner. He and I were literally the only people in the entire hotel that evacuated before the firefighters got there, and we were standing outside by ourselves for almost six minutes before they showed up. It was burned popcorn. But I'm still glad we evacuated.)

HOWEVER! I also do not have to worry about wrangling children or loved ones, so my experience and preference is not universal.

Ultimately, it comes down to the fact that, while there are so many things built into designs and codified into law that are supposed to be there to help you, every individual person does need to take some responsibility for their own safety. Engineers make mistakes. Architects make mistakes. FIREFIGHTERS make mistakes. Everyone really needs to take a moment and... evaluate their own situation, both at home, and any time that they stay somewhere else, be it a friend's apartment or a hotel. Do you know your way out? Does the building seem sound? What does it appear to be made out of? Is it sprinkled? How high up are you? How big are the stairwells? How mobile are you on that given day? If an emergency does happen, can you tell how big it is?

My advice is, when in doubt, evacuate if you can do so safely. But always remember: there is never a one-size-fits-all answer to any given situation.