#(don't even get this one???? like??? dick is NOTHING like fanon what the fuck guys)

[dubacheryking]

throwing these here bc ALL OF THIS ALL OF THIS FFS

New plan, I am outsourcing my Batfam anti fanon list! Please reblog, comment or tag with the Batfam fanons that make you want to tear your hair out and grind your teeth to dust! I’ll start: I absolutely cannot stand the fanon that Tim was constantly left home alone as a small child. And if you ever mention the idea that Jason was anything but a good, smart kid who enjoyed school I will bite you

[evilwickedme]

Tbf I don’t think a single character is treated well by the fandom lol. Nuance dies in the Batman fandom 😂

This is so real!!!! It's actually a bit of a nightmare to have read literally any comics and also look for good fic, it's why it takes me so long to get to some of these fic requests. But I've been in fandom a very long time (well, for the average Tumblr user; I first read fic in 2008 or so), and I've seen a lot of characters get treated this way. I saw this problem in HP and in SPN and in BTVS and marvel where certain characters got flattened or completely mischaracterized by the fandom at large. The problem with batfam is that due to a combination of factors this happened to literally all of the characters. An average batfam fic has nothing to do with the actual DC comics characters and it's fucking bizarre, actually.

WFA I think made it worse somehow. For me, WFA was a gateway into the comics; I read it, got a good grasp on the basic players, read some fic, and then dove into whatever comics I could get my hands on. But for other people it seems as though the only material that exists is WFA and fanfic. A lot of really prominent writers literally just plain admit to not having read a comic. Now, some of those have read enough fic by competent authors that their characterization is still on point; others, tho, are uh... Very involved in the fanon.

Basically, it's not weird that some characters are completely flanderized or flattened by fandom. It's just bizarre that this happened to every single batfam character. Like:

Bruce is either a good guy trying his best or literally evil

Dick is a good older brother with a kind heart and a thick ass and that's it. Sometimes the writers have vaguely heard about Nightwing 93 but only sometimes

Jason has pit madness and is nigh on abusive to Tim or is babygirl who loves Jane Austen, no in between

Tim is woobified and is defined entirely by being a genius who drinks too much coffee

Steph is waffles girl

Damian is the literal devil and antagonistic towards everyone except Bruce and Dick and also nobody in any fandom can write children, fyi, y'all need to stick to writing teenagers and up bc y'all either extremely underestimate or overestimate what children can do

Cass is a sweetheart and everyone's favorite and that's literally it

Babs is a super genius but not as smart as Tim of course. The one and only good thing about fanon is that she's nearly always Oracle

Duke is not there

Kate is not there

Harper is definitely not there (although tbf she's in even less comics than Duke and I don't own any of her appearances)

And yeah this is the mess that the fandom has created. It does honestly get exhausting sometimes

[bigskydreaming]

Do you ever feel like you're pushing a boulder up a hill defending characters against the same whole-hearted misinformation that keeps getting repeated again & again as if it's canon? I tried 4 times in a chat thread where people kept insisting that Dick Grayson and even the Teen Titans were jerks to Jason Todd when he was Robin. I don't know how you do it. No matter what you say, it just keeps going. No canon is ever enough. Why are some fans so set on the idea that everyone ostracized Jason?

Ooof yeah, that’s a whole barrel of annoying. The big gripe for me, in both my major fandoms, is that so much of the misinformation comes paired with this contradictory insistence on how much people don’t give a fuck about canon.....even while willfully trying to reinvent canon to say what they want it to say, in order to back up their version of events or take on various characters!

Its like, if you don’t give a fuck about canon, THEN DON’T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT CANON. Don’t TELL me you don’t give a fuck about canon, and then GO OFF on how canon does all these things that canon most definitely does not do, thereby casting MUCH MUCH doubt upon your claims of not giving a fuck about canon, and suggesting that in fact, you do give quite a bit of fucks about canon, actually.

Y’know?

fahsklfhalfhkafl

But honestly, I’m not the person to give advice on this front because oof, I make bad choices here. LOLOLOL, no but for real, I can’t really tell you how to just deal with this because I’m like, I do not have mastery of that skillset myself. I have however long since exhausted myself of any illusions about CHANGING the minds of people who are particularly insistent upon things that never happened informing their particular view of characters, because like.....the reality is, people who come into fandoms emotionally invested in views of characters that they derived from other fics or fanons, like......it doesn’t matter that those things aren’t canon, what matters is their emotional investment in this particular fandom is entirely bound up in those particular views no matter WHERE they originated from, and so most of them aren’t changing their minds any time soon because they don’t WANT another viewpoint, their original one is the reason they’re here and invested in the first place. 

BUT at the same time, everybody wants to feel validated in their viewpoints, so the more that viewpoint is challenged by people being like uh no, here’s a thing that says you’re wrong, look, its here, its clear, the facts say shhhhhh the marketing campaign for all the Hateorade you’ve drunk about this character is based entirely on The Sky Is Green If We Say It Is logic.....the more people are like, determined to prove they’re right, even if their own personal conviction ORIGINALLY was not dependent on canon whatsoever and it only retroactively started mattering to them not as a source point for how they view characters but like, rather, a data point for Here’s How I Can Still Win This Argument.

And here’s where being in a comics fandom gets really fucking annoying:

Because there are so damn many comics.

And like, a lot of people in comics fandoms don’t even read the comics, and say so - and I mean, this is fine? If you’re here for the characters you don’t need to be here for the comics, so if you don’t actually like comics, like don’t read the comics, just read fic. Its whatever. BUT the bigger issue in my experience is like.....people arguing about comics canon even when they haven’t read the comics, like....often project onto everyone they’re arguing with, like, their own stance on comics.

What I mean by that is a lot of the people arguing about comics canon even when they proudly haven’t read a comic in their life because there are so many where would they even start and also, eww, I’m not doing all that.....like....there’s this presumption evident in a lot of arguments that the same holds true for everyone else in comics fandoms.....that none of the rest of us have read all those comics either, because how could anyone? There’s so many of them!

Forgetting of course, that many of us come into these fandoms from entirely different trajectories. If you come into a comics fandom because of fanfics, or a cartoon adaptation, or the movies.....upon your first day in fandom, when you look at all the comics canon that’s out there, you’re like holy shit that’s a lot, nobody could ever read all that, I’m certainly not going to read all that, I’m going back to fics.

BUT for those of us who came into these fandoms from the direction of reading the comics......our perspective was entirely different, because it was never some singular monolithic VASTNESS of unread comics that nobody could ever tackle because where would we even begin. For those of us who were reading comics for years or most of our lives......its been a handful of issues a month, month after month, year after year, rather than all in one sitting.

So the point of conflict becomes the presumption from a lot of fans who AREN’T here because of the comics, that comic book canon is this untapped cornucopia of potential validation, Schrodinger’s Canon, it can be basically whatever they want it to be, because who’s to say it ISN’T? If they can’t read all of that, nobody can read all of that, so when you think about it, its entirely plausible that the thing they insist happened in canon actually DID happen in canon, SOMEWHERE in all of that.....because just because they don’t know where it is and can’t point to it as explicitly existing, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist either. Who’s to say, really?

Well. Umm. People who in fact actually HAVE read all or most of the RELEVANT comics. Like yeah nobody’s read every comic ever I bet, lolol, but for lifelong DC readers, canon ISN’T this vast uncharted territory that can potentially contain everything.....its actually quite charted, and there are people who absolutely do know what it does and does not contain.

And this I think is at the heart of the insistence on particular points of argument, like Jason was always perpetually mistreated and Dick and the Titans hated him on sight and that’s why the Knights of the Order of Protection for the Smol Jason Bean hate Dick, because he was a giant jerkface to a little kid who never did anything to him ever. Like it doesn’t matter how much we point out that no, this did not in fact happen and is untrue, COMPLETELY, like.....people who came into fandom because of fics about Jason in which the entire perspective upon his character is uniformly, with virtually no exception, that he was scapegoated by Dick from Day One and he and Dick will always be eternally at odds because of the remnants of what a jerk and failure of a brother Dick was to him at first.......like, I feel like there’s this conviction lying underneath all those arguments, no matter how much canon they’re presented with, that there still exists out there SOMEWHERE, some untapped treasure trove of panels proving what a buttface Dick was to his first little brother, validating everything they’ve ever believed and thought ever, because look all those depictions of Dick being a giant assbutt to Jason in fics had to come from SOMEWHERE after all, didn’t they?

Well, yeah. They did come from somewhere. They came from the writers who wrote those fics that way because they either just hated Dick’s character or they were working through their own sibling angst and projected certain dynamics onto the characters or someone told them this is what things were like in the comics and they didn’t know any different or just didn’t care or a hundred million other possible reasons for why they wrote them that way with none of those reasons being Cuz Canon Said So.....and then those particular depictions caught on and multiplied fruitfully like the offspring of rabbits doing it sans contraceptives.

Because its not like “perpetual black sheep of the family so unfairly hated, so misunderstood, especially by the family’s favored son, the golden boy” is a fan favorite trope on its own, regardless of whether or not the characters said trope is applied to actually FIT that trope.

So in the end, the painful irony was not only did canon have nothing to do with that trend, canon COULD do nothing about that trend, because the reasons people turned to it, despite how often canon gets brought into it....really had nothing to do with canon.

So tbh, my personal stance these days is the best defense to fic-borne and originating views of the characters and their dynamics is NOT canon, its....more fic. Fic that presents a counter-narrative to the ones that are so often the first thing people see when they enter fandom, and thus become engrained as Truth. So that there’s at least more variety out there, because where there’s variety, there’s varied points of view, and the more people internalize THAT, that there are variations to be found in how these characters relate to each other and their shared histories......the more people have to make a CHOICE about what variations they most want to adhere to, from among the OPTIONS they’re presented with, instead of just doubling down on the first thing that clicks for them, no opposition in sight.

And if these counter “Dick’s just the worst like what an uber asshole gonna give a five star rating for Sucking At Life to that guy” fics happen to be inspired largely by canon rather than fanon like....oh no, how strange and unknowable, that’s not the Process, we’re doing it wrong but hey whatever.

But does that mean its not still frustrating as hell to see people just parroting the Dick and the Titans were mean to Jason truism as fact, especially when you know damn well its not? Hell no. That’s annoying as fuck. But don’t worry so much about trying to change peoples’ minds, I say, and instead just find people who ARE open to canon or familiar with it, and just have a good rant. Its fun!

 Here, I’ll start:

UGH AND ANOTHER THING ABOUT THIS WHOLE “DICK WAS SUCH A JERK TO JASON AND THE TITANS ALL FOLLOWED HIS LEAD” CRAPOLA SUMMER SALES EVENT:

Where would that even have happened???

Like what really chuffs my chopped onions here is when people are so suuuuuuuure that the gatekeepers of comic book fandom are keeping the real juicy anti-Dick panels hidden every time they ask “Hey Siri show me proof Dick’s a jerkmonster to Jason”....because like...they’re just SO SURE these panels are out there and its like lololol but where would they even come from? 

Because everybody overlooks that in proper Dickens fashion, pre-Flashpoint Jason was a Tale of Two Jasons, the pre-Crisis adorable child of sunshine and whee, and the post-Crisis I have smoker’s lung at age twelve Jason......and these two Jasons can and do and are MEANT to co-exist within the same body! They’re the same Jason, in hindsight!

See, post-Crisis Jason only existed for like, less than TWO YEARS real world time, before A Death in the Family! People have this assumption that because of how rock-solid the post-Crisis origin for him is and how solidly that’s informed his characterization and stories moving forward, like.....there was this HUGE foundation for it back in the day that was built upon.....but no! We’re talking like, less than twenty four issues IN TOTAL. Post-Crisis Jason was a drop in the bucket compared to pre-Crisis Jason.

So why then, is post-Crisis Jason so much more firmly cemented in peoples’ minds than pre-Crisis Jason even though pre-Crisis Jason had way more material written about him?

Because for once in DC’s existence, they were SMART about a retcon. They didn’t TRY to pit post-Crisis Jason versus pre-Crisis Jason and make people pick between them. Post-Crisis Jason wasn’t an attempt at overwriting pre-Crisis Jason and making it so he never existed. Instead, what they did with their limited amount of time writing post-Crisis Jason was overwrite only two stories specifically: his actual pre-Crisis origin, and how he and Dick first met....and then they let everything else from pre-Crisis stay! It just got folded IN BETWEEN Jason’s new post-Crisis origin and everything that came after that, thanks to some handy non-linear storytelling and flashbacks.

So rather than Jason having two entirely separate storylines and directions, they still kept him at just one....and his post-Crisis origin and A Death in the Family became BOOKENDS surrounding not just the twenty issues in between those two stories......but ALSO surrounding ALL the pre-Crisis issues featuring Jason.....including the times he interacted with Dick and the Titans.

And that’s why there’s no untapped treasure trove of potentially vilifying issues showcasing Dick being such a can of Jerkola to Jason.......

Because post-Crisis only amounted to a grand total of like twenty something issues.....in which Jason interacted with Dick once and only once....the issue which ends with Dick giving Jason his blessing as Robin, his costume, and his phone number to call him if he ever has any problems with Bruce.

But simultaneously, because all those pre-Crisis issues still existed, were still relevant, were still in continuity (as evidenced by Jason himself when he came back as the Red Hood and fought Tim at Titans Tower, referencing how he was briefly a Titan himself.......aka those issues in which he teamed up with the Titans, which ONLY happened before his new origin)....we similarly know that it wasn’t like Dick and Jason never had any contact after their first post-Crisis encounter....we just never saw Jason use that phone number on the page AFTER that issue (because again, there was no time before he was killed off in the comics TO engineer another on the page meet-up, like both characters were busy in unrelated stories in the course of the mere year between that issue and ADITF). BUT by the power of retcon, we do know that Jason still must have used it at some point, or else Dick reached out to him again at some later point off the page......because Dick and Jason’s easy familiarity with each other pre-Crisis STILL EXISTED AS WELL. They had a sibling relationship post-Crisis because they had a sibling relationship pre-Crisis...AND IT WAS THE SAME RELATIONSHIP.

And this is Part Two of why no untapped treasure trove of Jerk Dick and Poor Jason panels exists......because other than that one post-Crisis issue, all their other interactions hail from the pre-Crisis era....where Dick adored Jason and so did the rest of the Titans.

Jason wasn’t resentful of the Titans or scared of them or nursing grudges, he thought getting to hang out with his big brother’s friends WAS THE COOLEST FUCKING THING IN THE WORLD and you could practically see him bouncing on the page the times it happened. He glowed when Dick would ruffle his hair playfully or compliment him, and the Titans’ collective energy towards Jason was very much OH OUR FRIEND’S BABY BRO IS THE MOST ADORABLE SMALL CHILD EVER AND WE WILL PROTECT HIM WITH OUR LIVES.

Like people WILLFULLY misconstrue this one issue where Jason teamed up with the Original Titans other than Dick for a mission against Cheshire, and claim like “oh see, this is the proof that the Titans were mean to Jason because of Dick, they kept giving him shit for not being Dick and hated him for replacing Dick....” which omg noooooooooooo, that is so odiously NOT what happened in that issue. First off, NOBODY blamed Jason for replacing Dick back then, because at the time those issues were written, he DIDN’T....this was when Dick had given Robin to Jason himself, when choosing to move on as Nightwing. And even RETROACTIVELY looking at this issue in light of the retcon where Dick was fired as Robin, this STILL changes nothing about Dick and Jason’s dynamic at this particular time or how the rest of the Titans would have viewed Jason as of this issue.....because that’s where the post-Crisis issue specifically writing Dick and Jason’s new introduction to each other on the page matters so much. As now the ultimate takeaway is even while not making Jason Robin himself, this issue STILL showed Dick giving Jason his blessing.....thus maintaining and stabilizing every pre-Crisis interaction between Jason and the Titans and ensuring that this whole “they resented him on Dick’s behalf” scenario wouldn’t throw any retroactive curveballs into how they were with Jason...because now there still was no need for anything on Dick’s behalf, as far as Jason was concerned, because Dick had given his A-Ok.

So that just flat out never happened, not originally, pre-Crisis, and not even in hindsight after the post-Crisis retcons were factored in, because the HOW of the post-Crisis retcons specifically factored in an avoidance of this potential tangle.

And in fact, what DID happen in the arc where Jason teamed up with the Titans without Dick, to go up against Cheshire.......is that Donna, who was in charge of the team at the time, kept trying to defer to Jason-as-Robin, because subconsciously she was insecure about her leadership at the time and having a Robin at her side was making her think of when Dick had been in that role, and simultaneously been their leader, and thus she was trying to lean into the familiar comforts of being able to turn to a Robin for direction.

And Jason CALLED HER OUT ON THIS. Politely. And cutely. No for real it was adorable. But like, he did it with poise and self-confidence and deliberation, and SHE HEARD HIM. She snapped out of it. Jason laid out exactly what she was doing and why and Donna was like oh shit, you’re right, I HAVE been doing that. And Jason was like, and that’s not fair to me. And Donna was like no, you’re absolutely right, that isn’t fair to you, I’m sorry. And Jason’s like, I can’t be the leader here, I don’t have the experience that Dick does. But you do, and you can be the leader. And Donna was like. You’re three for three kiddo, damn you’re good at this.

AND THEN THEY WENT AND KICKED BAD GUY ASS TOGETHER AND EVERYTHING WAS HUNKY-DORY BECAUSE THE POINT OF THAT ENTIRE PLOT WAS NOT “EVERYONE IS MEAN TO POOR JASON BECAUSE DICK MADE A CONSPIRACY OF MEANNESS” IT WAS “JASON’S A KICK-ASS LITTLE GO-GETTER WHO KNOWS HIS STRENGTHS AND HIS STRENGTH IS TELLING PEOPLE WHEN THEY’RE BEING DUMB AND THEY NEED TO STOP THAT.”

Okay, one caveat here. I must confess, its killing me....there is ONE Titan who was a jerk to Jason.

But uh....that Titan was Hank Hall aka Hawk. And he’s a jerk to everybody. Its kinda his superpower.

And he most certainly didn’t do it on Dick’s behalf, as Hank hates Dick and Dick hates Hank asfhilfhalfhalf. Seriously, they’re basically the hateship that ppl keep trying to make Dick and Jason into, only without the incest makes it spicy or whatever element, but like, if you’re not hung up on that and can ship people without them being related, oh no, oh woe, oh say it ain’t so, like, DickHank is the unsung hateship of dreaaaaaaaaaaams. They’re like:

Hank: As it is a day ending in y, I feel now is the perfect time to let you know, without prompting, that I hate your guts because people like you. And I hate people and everything they like, on account of people are the worst.

Dick: Well, you’re people, and you’re the worst, so that tracks.

Hank: So we’re agreed. I hate you. You hate me.....

Dick: Our hate is so in harmony.

Donna: What is even happening here and do I want to know.

Roy: In reverse order, no, probably not, and I’m not sure, but I THINK they’re getting hate married, and exchanging vows to hate each other in sickness and in health, forever and ever.

Wally: *skidding around corner* I CALL BEST MAN.

Donna: Its not a real wedding Wally.

Roy: Idk they seem pretty serious about it. Which means the best man position should be valid here, which means it should be me, because suck it West, only way you’ll ever be Dick’s best man is over my dead body.

Wally: Get ready to throw down then, Robin Hood, and just call me the Sheriff of Notachanceinhell, that best man position is MINE.

Garth: Whoa, hold up, I have an agreement IN WRITING from when we were THIRTEEN for Dick and I to be each other’s best men at our weddings, so I’m gonna need you both to stand down, I LITERALLY CALLED DIBS. Look. ITS IN WRITING.

Donna: Oh for fuck’s sake, you collective pluralization of buffoons, STOP TREATING THIS AS A REAL THING. ITS NOT A REAL THING.

Dick, eyes dead-locked on Hank: Oh this is real Donna. This is happening.

Hank, stepping forward, eyes equally locked: I have never been more serious about anything in my life. 

Lilith: Sure, you’ve only both saved the world but hey why should that matter. This is definitely the real shit.

Hank: Please. I only did that to prove I could do it better than Dick could. I hate the world.

Dick: Aww, and did you cry yourself to sleep when that flopped?

Hank: Wouldn’t know. It didn’t happen.

Donna: I swear by every god on Mt. Olympus, the first one of you to say I know you are but what am I is getting flung into orbit.

Anyway. I might have gotten distracted somewhere in there. What was your question again and did I answer it? I think I did....fahlkfhaklfhalhfa.

[7m7n7]

hey @p-ssypink you not only messed up the order of the screenshots but do you not fucking know what a READ MORE is? and why are you tagging @levi-ackerman-ds? i already @'d everyone i replied. it sounds like you're trying to create drama bc you're bored which you clearly do - oh wait, is this you admitting that AGAIN in the replies? shocking!

and also: what is this holier than thou nonsense to supposedly make your friends "see" my post? don't fucking act like it isnt easy as fuck going around the block. as if this back and forth is any fucking different and oh youre uwu not engaging through block 🥱 hilariously pathetic.

anyway here's my answer to p-ssypink on my own post:

oh and im not about to go through the trouble of separating the screenshots in the og, you can be a big boy and go check them yourself instead of acting like you're above it.

and the link: https://www.tumblr.com/7m7n7/754396118716153856/first-off-yup-it-seems-i-posted-the-wrong-link

anyways. @cosmicjoke

What happened bestie? When i post about eruri fandoms toxicity, you're all silent and "have no time for this uwu aha" ?? You certainly had enough time to create drama out of nothing and put it in tags unprompted tho, and you did A LOT OF TIME to talk endlessly about me FOR DAYS??? But all of a sudden, your pathetic little bitch mouth is all closed! How shocking, truly!

Also, learn to fucking read, you doofus. I never said YOU sent me hate. I said, one of your fucking eruri anons (who normally harass YOU, by the way) got a sock acc to come at me, while pretending to be Levihan/Rivetras. They specifically followed people who have beef with them to implicate them. Well, maybe someone as stupid as YOU would believe it's real tho LOL.

"I got pissed, and when I get pissed, I descend into crude and aggressive language, I admit." So You can get pissed and talk crudely, but others can't, oh no! Acting like YOU have the right to get pissed just bc of one drama, but no one else can get defensive, when we get hate CONTINUOUSLY, see negativity eruris create towards levi ALL THE TIME? Which you don't even give a fuck about, clearly, unless levi's pwecious morality is in danger? oh no, your comfort and feelings are the only ones that matter Mr High and Mighty 🥺 You also don't have the same vitriolic response to eruris you yourself posted that harassed you for months. How interesting! "i only was a dick bc of the obvious implication of their comment" and what about the obvious implication of YOUR comments? Your HC alone (which you push as canon) is deeply offensive and %10000 enables people who try to degrade him. But anyway, I already said all that in the screenshots soooo. 🥱

If you see him as masculine, then why are you reacting like this to what i said? I never said he's toxic or emotionless, quite the opposite. you specifically tried to paint top levi fans as bad guys. The fact is, you're hypersensitive towards a fanon that doesn't exist. I'm sensitive towards fanon that not only does exist, it is very much touted by very toxic people who mock, deride and harass others and use it as a degradation tool towards my favorite character. And both of you equate eruris emasculating levi with people who correctly see him as masculine. That already speaks for your bias. When you got a convenient opportunity, you immediately attacked us and you didn't defend what I said about you hating top levi either. Mr High and Mighty doesn't like lying, eh? Lmao. Anyway. But again, it shouldn't matter what your preference is. even if you're someone who likes him as a fixed bottom, the way eruris treat levi SHOULD bother you. I literally had this experience in other fandoms by the way, i had the same pref w majority (same fixed bottom, same ship) and still went against my own "side" bc they did this exact same thing towards that one character they were insecure about. So again, where's this energy towards disgusting eruri fanon? Correct me if I'm wrong of course, I'm not a dedicated follower of yours no matter how much you think the world revolves around you. I just never saw you attack people about how much they wanna "slap levi around" like you immediately said how i must be "slapped around" by levi. Again, creepy as fuck thing to say about a stranger unprompted.

i answered the part about toxic masculinity in the screenshots, so ehhhhhh. you should already know better that wasn't what i was saying at all. you cooooonstantly make up an argument and fight with yourself, so nothing's new there.

Just to show the problem with how you fucking talk, I'm gonna bite this: "Levi's core characteristic, the thing that makes him Levi, is his empathy." Read this sentence again. Core characteristic? Really? Who decides that? He's empathetic, that's one thing. But the "thing that makes him levi" is just your interpretation. Personally, I can't pin down any one quality, bc uhhhhhhh its just fucking stupid LMFAO. there's no one quality that can "make" a character unless it's a very shallow, boring, one-note character.

You...literally said you don't push your hc as canon then continued to do so, lol. Starting to love the lacking of self-awareness over there! anyways. sexual aggression =/= violence against women. this is just literally a sex negative/anti-kink rhetoric and i wouldn't be so proud of that if i were you. second of all, levi saw "what happened to his mom" yet sees sex work as "regular work" canonically. your rhetoric of this hyperemotional traumatized levi is SO unsupported it's actually fucking hilarious.

also, this is how levi reacted to armin getting molested:

....lol. very hypersensitive and hyperempathetic indeed. disclaimer bc i KNOW you're gonna puke blood over that one and ignore what i said anyway - yes, he's good and heroic, but not the uwu hypersensitive bby uwu boring insecure mfs want him to be. some things also can be chalked up to isayama's infamous flipfloppings (though not in the way you'd like anyway) but i don't wanna digress bc from little i saw you talk about the ending in particular, you're patently incapable of engaging with any media critically, you just gulp down what you're served without asking and think the most surface level bullshit is deep. what i wanted to show is, there's a range to be expored and your *HCs* aren't the fucking law :))))))

babe...do you REALLY think anyone has a problem w you saying that? 😭🤚🏻 wow suuuure bro bitches hATE it when a man uhhhhh (checks notes) is a caring lover 💀 you KNOW that's not something anyone is gonna have an issue with. also, answer this first, do you want him to be a "gentle caring lover" to women (since you're soooo worried about all that "violence against women") or do you want him to get fucked violently by a bunch of ugly dudes while hes all "sensitive" woobie towards them? bc somethings telling me its the second one 🤔

lmfao, you blabbered all that shit like the mindless little loser you are, pretending not to understand what i was trying to say. it's GENUINELY so incredible to how a person as fucking mind-numblingly stupid as you have the fucking NERVE to speak in this clownish, obstinate manner as if you're writing the fucking law. you seriously need to shut the fuck up and log the fuck off until you see your idiotic ass drunk on fakeass moral superiority as what it really is.

and moving on to @p-ssypink moron's nonsense:

????? i get that you have no life and nothing going on and wanna feel "included" by trying to exacerbate a random discourse, but LMFAOOOOOO am i being criticized for NOT STALKING YOU HERE???? 😭🤚🏻 just incredible. Sorry, i can't churn out 239482394832 words about some rando daily like you mfs do and i dont have neither time nor interest in checking out your blogs further, and just checking /your/ blog wouldn't really disprove anything i said either bc it can easily be someone's nonfandom main. sorry that you didn't get any attention since middle ages :-(

oh this made me fucking laugh tho:

how the fuck can you possibly type something so outrageously performative and think you're proving anything? literally a goldfish would have more social (and otherwise) intelligence than you 😭

Aaaaaaaanyway, youre a bunch of fucking imbeciles giving each other little pats in the back for spewing out garbage, one of you is trying to create drama bc she's attention-starved, and the other is crying over that precious moral high-ground. you can go back to making me the frontpage of your entire week again bc you clearly have nothing else interesting going on 😙

@cosmicjoke @jayteacups @levi-ackerman-ds figure since y'all was all part of this 7m7n7 mess and prolly blocked this nigga id share what's going on

[bigskydreaming]

How do you counter a Bruce hater? Not the 'never read comics so Bruce Wayne is a useless rich guy who should redistribute his wealth' hater, an actual hater who'd root for some villains like Ivy or Harley, want him gone so the Robins & Selina don't have to listen to him or care about him, thinks he should be obsolete because he's Idk.. old and has too many comics maybe? Genuine hater who somehow really loves his kids but not him. Doesn't hate the older version tho, acknowledges some parts..

I think it just comes down to why you want to counter them, tbh? Don’t get me wrong, I TOTALLY get being defensive of a fave, and respect how these fictional characters still nevertheless mean a great deal to us for various reasons.....but we hate various characters for a ton of different reasons as well. Bruce is....an especially complicated subject, because he’s such a CHARGED subject. He’s one of the oldest comic book characters out there, and he’s EXTREMELY polarizing....because people see radically different things when they look at him. Both canon writers and the fans. 

And thus we so often get these different takes on him that are literally AT ODDS with each other....the loving, caring father who is ideal for his kids because he wants to be for them what he never really had for himself vs the absent, neglectful father due to being a brooding, emotionally stunted lone wolf who believes he’s no good for anyone else and is best on his own.

And so the thing is, as much as it sucks, Bruce is one of those figures in comics where because BOTH takes (and everything else in between them) are real, just at different times, and are at such extreme opposite ends of the spectrum......there are reasons for loving his character that are absolutely valid....but there are reasons for hating his character that are absolutely valid as well. It kinda just depends on where your point of entry into the characters and their narratives are, and what your area of focus is.

For instance, its not really that weird that there are people who genuinely hate his character but somehow really love his kids....because I mean, using myself as an example....Dick has always been my character of focus, the one I personally relate to the most and invest in the most, and well, there have been a lot of times when Bruce has been written being extremely shitty to him. And that’s specifically WHAT I hold against Bruce’s character a lot of the time, and its not a contradiction to like Bruce’s kids and not like him.....the way DC has so massively fucked him up in regards to his kids a lot of the times IS the reason people who like his kids don’t like him. And even though its totally the writing that’s to blame, there sometimes comes a point when the problems are so everpresent in the writing of a character that its just too hard for a fan to separate the writing from the character, and it gets all tangled up together and thus you end up with someone hating Bruce, even though its really only certain ways he’s written that originated that.

So I mean, for myself, I don’t hate Bruce, but I DEFINITELY hate the way he’s written a lot of the time....I’m just very much used to centering my writer brain even when I’m reading, and thus its...easier? For me to keep an awareness of when I have a problem with a character inherently vs when I just have a problem with a certain take on a character? So I don’t hate Bruce because I recognize the times he is written well in regards to his kids and I see the potential for that always being there, but that doesn’t stop me from hating on the times he ISN’T written well in regards to them and is basically outright abusive because I mean....that’s part of why I invest in Dick’s narratives so much....I come from an abusive household and as much as I WANT Bruce to be good for Dick, I recognize and see myself and my own story in a lot of Dick’s narratives with Bruce.....which is why I dislike Bruce on a lot of occasions....BUT I also recognize and see in the OVERALL CHARACTERS the potential for Bruce to do what DIDN’T happen in my own life and like....get his act together. Be better. FIX himself and his relationships with his kids so that he can give them the family they deserve.

And so that’s why and where its ideal for me to keep the fact that the flaws are in the writing, not the characters, front and center.

But that’s not necessarily ideal for everyone, is the thing you gotta remember to respect. And other people who might be drawn to Dick and Jason and the other kids’ narratives BECAUSE they relate specifically to them as characters who have dysfunctional or even unhealthy relationships with an abusive or neglectful parent.....they might be less inclined to not hate Bruce because a family resolution isn’t ultimately what they’re looking for when relating to these characters....maybe what’s best for them at this point in their life is to see or imagine stories where these characters break away from a family member who only seems to hurt them lately, to not wait and hope for things to get better or him to improve but to just...move on on their own. *Shrugs* I don’t know, I can’t speak for everyone but none of us can is the thing.

And so its messy as hell, and its not a lot of fun sometimes, but the fact is, we just all gotta try and remember that what we look for in these characters and what we see in them is not the only thing that’s there. There are SO many facets to these characters and their stories and SO many reasons people are drawn to them and SO many things that fans are looking for and hoping for from them.

So my only advice is don’t worry about countering so much as just....holding front and center your own motivations for loving Bruce’s character and the WHYS of it. And its not....it doesn’t have to be one or the other, you know? Its not a zero sum game. As much as it makes it complicated to navigate fandom a lot of times, there’s room for multiple interpretations to exist, and the reasons you love Bruce’s character don’t HAVE to counter or negate the reasons other people hate his character, and vice versa. The reasons other people hate and criticize Bruce don’t HAVE to impact or harm the things you love about him......just focus on speaking to and putting out there your own view of things, and by all means, be as forceful and passionate about that as you want or need to be! 

But just....know the reality is that even if you’re trying to persuade someone else to see Bruce the way you do, that doesn’t guarantee they will, or that they have to, because unlike in a lot of instances where people just smear other characters for entirely baseless reasons, a lot of people DO have anti-Bruce sentiments that are rooted in entirely real justifications.....but that’s not an indictment of your pro-Bruce sentiments, and it doesn’t have to be, and you don’t need to take it as one. Which means you don’t have to defend him....there’s nothing to defend, maybe. Your reasons for liking him have nothing to do with someone else’s reasons for hating him and they don’t need to go head to head and duel it out, necessarily.

Honestly, just whenever possible, just try to keep front and center in your mind and your reading of posts that like.....a lot of times “I hate Bruce” is actually more likely “I hate Bruce’s writing in x and y and z situations and stories” and that can make it a LOT easier to digest. 

I mean, going back to using myself as an example, obviously I’m hugely vocal in defensive of Dick Grayson, lol, but a lot of people question why I so often attack fanon characterizations of him specifically....and its specifically BECAUSE I’m attacking the tendency of so many fans to say “I hate Dick” when its actually in my eyes more “I hate Dick’s characterization - as depicted in these various fanon myths that only exist in fandom and have no basis outside it.” So THAT’S what I ‘defend’ Dick against more often than not, versus just....defending him against people who hate him - there’s no real counter for that, at the end of the day. You can’t MAKE someone like a character if they have actual real justifications for why.

But you CAN be clear about where it is you do and don’t agree with their view of a character.....is it because you have fundamentally different views of the character that are both rooted in canon basis, or is it because you feel they’re not accurately characterizing a character based on your knowledge of him, or is it because you both simply prioritize and focus on different areas of a character’s past writing? Etc. etc.

That won’t necessarily help you ‘win’ any arguments against an opposing viewpoint in fandom, but it will help you....deal with the existence of opposing viewpoints that have every bit as much validity as yours, I think. Just being able to recognize when someone isn’t criticizing or condemning the Bruce you know and love....its just that the Bruce they know and hate is kinda almost a different version of the character entirely.....but both versions can and do exist and its ultimately just a matter of finding some way to balance that.

I don’t know if that’s of any help at all, but hopefully there’s something in there that’ll be of use to you!

[safitheartist]

-Somehow knows the Al Ghuls have "chinese herritage" while knowing nothing else about them

- Including the fact that said herritage was added haphazardly to excuse their orientalism and not to genuinly give more chinese rep.

- or the fact that's like most likely not even canon anymore? Like they literally just added it as a excuse to be more racist.

-Find every excuse in the book for Damian being two shades lighter then a piece of paper

-Only know Damian's 1 white friend

- It's either Colin who hasn't been around well before the nee 52 and really wasn't as important to Damian as people make him out to be

- Or it's Jon

-Both are made out as more innocent and naive then their actual comic portrayl and Damian needs to protect them UwU

- Ship Damian with either of them, again ignoring the fact that Colin literally is a character who like only appeared properly twice and Jon literally is a 10 year old

- Lots of hcs that are of questionable nature

- makes and or reblogs very suggestive if not boarderline pornographic art of them.

- "It's okay and not creepy if you age them up :))))"

- "Billy Batson is now a close friend of Damian because most of Damian's actual friends are poc and I can't have that in my dream team trio"

- Colin "fans" use his disability and phobias for "cute comfort fics uwu"

- Colin's disability gets grossly misrepresented.

- They forgot Colin has mental disabilities because they don't view him as anythinh other then a white boy to ship Damian with

- Batfam shippers.

- "they aren't technically related"

- Cass, if not being only there to comfort her siblings or not show any emotion resolves all her issues with violence.

- Cass is capeable in everything and fails at nothing ever.

- Cass's disabilty is ignored or grossly misrepresented.

- They claim they like Harley and Ivy.

- All their hcs about Harley and Ivy revolve around Harley's past abusive relationship with the joker. None of them are about their actual relationship.

-"Selina stans."

-They actually know next to nothing about her other then that she likes cats and jewlery.

-Probably think Tom King wrote the Batcat parts in his story well (lol he didn't and I will never forget how he literally stole a character atribute of Talia, her devotion to the idea of Bruce as Batman (something most writers used as one of her flaws might I fucking add), gave it to his glorified wifu version of Selina and literally used it to 'prove' that Selina is the better love interest)

- Cat puns.

- Damian and Selina bound over cats or Bruce because that's the only thing they could bound over, it's not like they are both abuse victims.

- Again general Talia hate.

- They don't read comics but they kiss every writer who validates their terrible fanon on the ass cheek.

- "Well, I don't think it's racist-"

- "When X was in Gotham Academy-" has never actually read Gotham Academy because it has too many poc I guess.

-Or they are talking about young justice

- "Steph was never actually Robin"

- "Duke was never actually Robin."

- Damian should be Batman or Nightwing when he grows up. Fuck giving him his own identity.

- Claim to hate DC pretending Damian is special because he is Bruce's "blood son"

- Literally are obsessed with Damian as a sort of legacy holder.

-Damian hates everyone in his family except Dick and his dad maybe ocassionally.

-Damian is needlessly mean/agressive

- But it's okay because he is just a assassin baby, he's allowed to act like a sociopath UwU

- If they remember Duke exists by some miracle his personality is being the judgemental black guy who can't deal with the white nonesense and never actually is treated like the other bat kids. Nevermind the fact that he literally chosed to be there after finding out what he would get into

- Sexualized art of the Robins

- probably also don't know what is so bad about Yaoi/fujushi culture.

- They have a nsfw tag full of borderline child porn that isn't illegal due to a technicality.

-Probably know more about Harper Row then Cass somehow.

-Somehow still don't know she has a gay brother nor that she is bi

I'm gonna stop, all the salt is making me thirsty.

How to spot one of those batfam stans

Tim lives on coffee. He doesn’t know other drinks exist

I don’t read comics but

Dick is just so smiley and happy! Ray of sunshine, trying to keep his bwothers fwom fwighting :(

They get Jason right actually, he is just an edgelord who fucks guns

Tim has never slept in his life! Except for when he falls asleep on top of the fridge or some weird shit!!

Cassandra who? No personality. Don’t talk abt her at all. Bc to talk abt someone. U have to know even cursory information

And you’d have to have read a comic

They have never read 1 comic

D??u?ke??????

Damian is dick’s real son uwu

Bruce looks into the distance like he’s on the office XD

Often followed by “I hate all of you”

Bruce goes baby shopping! Just picks up random kids! Instead of forming meaningful relationships w kids who need help

Instead of being selfless and kind and empathetic, seeming himself in kids, wanting to help them turn out not like him

New kid every week!! Quirky!!

Alfred is there and says something cringe

Literally just. Just says cringe things. He’s British not an alien.

They’re just a big happy family!! No complexity!! 2d!!! Boring!!!! UWU