#(THEY’RE LEGAL BTW I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH)

[cavehags]

do you have any articles you’ve read that accurately explain why you hate weddings and why they’re bad for women? i agree but i find it so hard to put in words so i need some ref

anon I want to have these resources for you!!! I do!!! but I have never found many compelling articles on this topic, and not for lack of trying. so I’m gonna try and gather up the ammo myself by going topic-by-topic, if I can. my hope is to give a holistic view of just some of the many, many harms marriage imposes on women. cw sexual assault, pedophilia, misogyny, abuse, basically everything bad.

i think a lot of people see marriage the way it’s practiced by 20- to 30-somethings in the coastal united states today as pretty much the only relevant snapshot of the tradition. if you’re a certain type of person, weddings make marriage look pretty good! most people enjoy lavish parties that someone else paid for. and almost everyone has, knowingly or not, been exposed to a lot of propaganda that states that a wedding is the happiest day of a couple’s life, that women in particular are or deserve to be in a state of bliss on their wedding day, and that all the trappings associated with weddings, from purchasing expensive dresses to purchasing expensive tablecloths, are fun expressions of the couple’s creative side. obviously this is marketing dialed up to eleven and none of it is true. further, people like to argue that because brides tend to take the more active role in wedding planning, therefore weddings are in some way a feminist practice (????). this is total nonsense. for a start, weddings put women on display as physical objects–just think of how much marketing goes into the idea that a bride should look perfect on her wedding day, with a dedicated stylist and hairstylist, a team of friends and relatives to get her dressed, and a dress that cost at least $1,600 on average (i’m not linking to theknot dot com but trust me, that’s what it says). don’t forget that there will be a photographer and a videographer there to capture the bride at her most beautiful. and you only have to google “wedding crash diet” to see how how beauty standards of thin bodies are a singular focus of obsession by the wedding industry.

putting women on display for their physical apperance disturbs me. enforcing the idea that finding a man produces the most beautiful day of a woman’s life also disturbs me. and marketing that pretends that the happiness of a couple is in some way connected to how much they spend on a big, dumb, sexist party also disturbs me. but that’s just weddings.

i could put aside my issue with weddings if weddings weren’t just the first day of marriage. because my real issue is with marriage. so anon, i’m going to take you on a tour of everything that sickens me about marriage to put all my wedding hatred into context for you.

marriage is an ancient practice and misogyny is embedded in basically every variant of marriage ever practiced in the world. the commercialized, commodified weddings practiced by affluent couples in the west today just put some gloss and propaganda on the old tradition. but the skeleton of the tradition is really fucking ugly and hateful towards women. and the more you examine how marriage plays out today, the more you see that that hasn’t gone away. and it never will.

let’s start with the basics. historically, marriage as an institution has reinforced the myth of male superiority by giving tangible structure to what was previously just a notion–the notion of gender roles. if a home contains one man and one woman (often a girl, really, but i’ll get to that), then it naturally follows that a man’s role is to contribute x, y and z to the household, while women contribute… uh, a through w at the very least. and often x, y and z too. so you’re immediately left with a society where men are expected to be active and women are expected to be passive. that mandated passivity erodes choice and freedom and consent.

many forms of early marriage permitted men to have multiple wives while women were of course tied to their one husband. across the board, the minimum legal age for marriage has been lower for girls than for men, since long before anyone understood fertility patterns; though it may have been stated in some cases that this is because women “mature faster,” the real reason is that men were expected to have established themselves and their wives were expected to be young, inexperienced and virginal. across the world, married women have often been treated as if the act of marrying a man symbolizes passing from one guardian to another; this is clear even from an extremely common ritual still practiced today–the changing of the bride’s last name to match her husband’s. and worldwide and throughout histories, legal systems have granted husbands the right to control their wives and everything in their orbit. this includes the practice of marital rape.

girls and women have always been denied choices and agency through the constraints of marriage. child marriage is an obvious example. in many parts of the world, girls as young as seven years old (which was the minimum in the united states in 1880, btw) have been forced to marry adult men. marriage is the only cultural ritual practiced in large numbers today that transforms what would be viewed as sexual assault on a child one day to a private family matter the next. child marriage is slavery and still takes place in 50+ countries today, including the US. child brides, who are often from poor families, are thrust out of their homes generally because their parents are looking to eliminate the financial burden of raising a girl. but in their new marriages, they are subject to violent rape and domestic violence, dangerously young pregnancies that put fatal stress on their developing bodies, and a host of inequalities in the law that permit their husbands to do whatever they want with them. marrying eliminates any chance of a young girl enjoying her childhood or pursuing an education. her life prospects are reduced to a short lifetime of unpaid domestic labor and sex she can’t consent to.

further, marriage between partners of any age is wrapped up in the idea that men must control women and girls’ sexuality. some have argued that the practice of marriage is commonplace for no other reason than to keep women’s sexuality in check. naturally, then, what we’re left with is a longstanding tradition of marital rape. throughout history, in many places, rape of a married woman was legally considered a crime against her husband and not the victim herself, as she was his property. extending that logic reveals that no husband could be found guilty of assaulting his property. so marital rape was commonplace, and was not even viewed to be a crime in many parts of the world until the twentieth century. through marriage and the misogynistic laws surrounding it, a very chilling sentiment was normalized: the concept that men are entitled to sex with the women in their lives. that perspective has not yet been fully destabilized. in a 2018 study of 4,000 british adults, a quarter of participants reported that they don’t believe marital rape is rape.

some other quick hits… the extremely widespread practices of paying dowries and bride prices further reinforce how marriage is understood as a transaction over a woman. and i wouldn’t want to overlook how the structured gender roles enforced through marriage resulted in trapping generations of women inside their home, where they were expected to do all the household labor and reproduce for as long as their bodies could support it. think of all the work those women could have done in the world, and all the worldly experiences that they might have had, if they were not trapped in their homes based on the idea that only their husbands had the right to experience the world.

marriage is a religious tradition that was eventually adopted by the state. but we already know that many religions were constructed by and to the advantage of men, and they are full of quite misogynistic traditions, including the ideology that shaped marriage rituals over the centuries. the state recognizes marriage and grants certain privileges to married couples that others don’t have access to. often these privileges can be life-saving, as in the case of the benefits pertaining to medical insurance. the legalization of gay marriage, and before that, interracial marriage, expanded the prospects of who was eligible to reap those benefits. however, there will always be limitations on who can enjoy those benefits–and use them to survive–so long as they are extended to married couples only.

and then suppose that a woman has decided that she’s seen enough injustice in her marriage and she would like to divorce. research shows that women face a great deal of gender-based scrutiny in divorce courts, and when men sue for custody–which occurs in a minority of cases–they generally win. and in cases of abuse, divorce is a costly obstacle to a woman escaping with her freedom. some abused women have said that the time-intensive process of divorce put them off of leaving. the regimented structure of marriage was a trap that subjected those women to a greater degree of violence.

so! all this being said, i am adamantly against marriage. i cannot see a version of the practice that doesn’t just slap a shiny coat of paint over a violent tradition that has restricted women’s rights to a horrifying degree and continues to do so today. so when i see weddings treated as romantic and aspirational and objects of envy in the media, i’m left feeling disgusted that this tradition is so often painted as good for women. wedding magazines are marketed to us. there are new startups emerging every day that promise to make the wedding-planning process easier, more fun, more romantic. i just can’t see the romance in women’s continued subjugation. 

anyway. i hope this was helpful. there are lots of BOOKS you can read with plenty of history on marriage: i just read who cooked the last supper?: the women’s history of the world by rosalind miles and there’s in depth discussion of the many abuses women were subject to under the laws governing marriage. you might even look to the wikipedia page for criticism of marriage to start more research.

[smolmushrooms]

Taxes, the biggest Spooky that isn’t nearly as scary as you think.

A huge chunk of taxes (like most of it to be honest) is “Can you follow instructions?” so take your time and follow the instructions. This is the biggest fear of so many younger people, adulty adults always tell you life doesn’t come with an instruction book but taxes are one part of life that actually does, go figure.

 I cannot stress this enough for the ease it will bring to your life: Call the Canadian Revenu Agency (CRA), get full access to your "My Account" webpage. Your employer is legally obligated to send your T4 (paper that shows how much money you made and how much was deducted from your pay for so many categories) to the government and the government just uploads that shit for your access!

H&R Block will do your taxes for free online. You spoke to one human (or you waited for the mail with a code on it so you didn't even have to talk to a person!) You sign up for the tax site after, you follow the instructions.

You CAN use the site without having access to My Account but you need to input numbers manually and that kinda sucks. So if you do have access you follow through to the upload from CRA option, double-check everything is there and hit submit, it even tells you how much you're getting back or owe before you hit submit!

Doing Taxes manually and on paper? your T4 is laid out in numbered boxes, and the tax forms tell you step-by-step what numbers you need to do your math, and where the answers go.

Wanna get more complicated but get money back all the time because who doesn’t like money from the government? Set up an RRSP with your bank and have a pre-authorized amount go into the RRSP every payday, even if it’s only $20 a pay starting. Money put into an RRSP counts as money deducted from your gross income (How much money you made before everything was deducted) like taxes every paycheque.

Look into things, Google is right there. Do you qualify for what I call The working Poor credit? That’s where you don’t make a lot of money so they give you a break. Did you save receipts from things like the dentist, massage therapy? heck, therapy? Glasses? that shit is a deductable, throw it on there and bring what the government sees as how much money you made even lower. Medical issues that qualify? Shit man, fight with your doctor to fill out the paperwork to get that number even lower. I swear the whole point of taxes is to make yourself look as poor as possible and in today's job market well, it’s kinda easy which sucks but hey, you’re managing even if it’s only a little so gold star.

More about My Account and why I have a weird adult crush on it. It tells you all of the things, so many things. It tells me how much my most recent tax return was. It tells me how much my GST will be and when it will be paid. It allows me to update my information without needing to contact another human being to potentially fuck it up. It tells me how much money I can dump into my RRSP before the government says they’re not gonna give me a break anymore for it (btw that’s a yearly amount and it just keeps adding together like all the time and I love it)

Look at all this stuff you can edit and change and not have to talk to another human for! Updating personal stuff, banking stuff, getting old employment info, all right there! Did I mention no other humans that you need to talk to? I feel like that’s a point I cannot stress enough.

H&R Block

My Account- CRA

[tsukifairy]

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[crystallinerays]

Give me everything about Desh. EVERYTHING. ALL OF THE NUMBERS. And then give me a character to do as well.

Well, i just came home from target with microwave pizza and a bottle of wine and I can’t think of better circumstances to talk about my favorite dumpster baby so here we go!

1. What is one thing others might find intolerable about them?

Other than their ridiculous upbeat attitude and kleptomaniac tendencies?

Maybe the fact that they leave their stuff everywhere. Come home from a mission and there’s armor strewn about the living room and kitchen and the stairs. A left on the bathroom sink, quiver of holding dangling off a door knob. One boot is in the front hallway and another is just chilling kicked off in her doorway. There are personal notes everywhere in a stupid variety of languages just left on any surface.

Like at first moving in with Desh seems find. They seem all neat and organized, but that’s because they didn’t own anything yet. Now, they’re really messy to live with, okay. There’s a method in the madness hidden deep in it, but like way deep.

(Desh’s room is fucking meticulous btw, it’s just all the shared spaces that they keep leaving their shit in. They want to make it super obvious that they live there, this is their house, and they’re comfortably not going anywhere.)

2. Do they have any annoying quirks? If so, what are they?

Does fidgeting count? Desh cannot stay still to save their life. Drumming fingers, tapping feet, taking off jewelry and fiddling with it (Desh wears a shit ton of rings like i do for just this purpose), spinning arrows, fucking around with knives, pacing.

Please imagine a Silver Council meeting where everyone is sitting down around a table and Desh is stalking  the perimeter of the room very seriously twirling a knife. It’s unnerving as fuck, but considering the current high stress situation it’s the only thing that really helps them pay attention.

that’s a quirk, right?

3. Name one or more of their bad habits.

Knives

Okay, I think we all know this kid is like the living personification of bad ideas being the only ideas. But honestly? Being an impulsive mother fuck.

4. Any addictions? (Food, sex, drugs/alcohol, shopping, power/control, etc.)

Sorta??? They’re a former drug addict. (And not just because some ghosts gave Desh and Thul opium addictions waaaaaay back when.)

I like to think when Desh and their brother were sold into slavery getting them hooked on opium or something was a good way of keeping them compliant and less likely to try and run away. They were cured of this once they were liberated (remove disease), but Desh did relapse for a while after witnessing Pezzack burn. They were a scared fucking nineteen year old kid fell in with the wrong crowd, okay? They left that behind and have been clean for a few years but like that was a thing that happened.

(all those nat 20s i rolled to cure their phantom addiction? maybe her Cayden taking mercy on her and being like “you’ve been through this enough, kid”)

5. What is one thing they do that can negatively affect their relationship with friends?

Well, they are rash and impulsive  and emotional and honestly doesn’t give a shit about hurting people’s feeling if what they think what they’re doing is Right, BUT I’m gonna say a bad habit of withholding information on this one.

Desh doesn’t like lying and believes in honesty above all things (and she’s the group’s spymaster. it’s impractical and a bit hypocritical yes I know), but she’s 100% behind not telling the full truth and withholding information to those she doesn’t think need to know it.

Like she’s not going to forwardly talk about her history and her wants and needs or why exactly Yewon bothers her (they don’t actually hate him it’s just... complicated? we haven’t quite unpacked that box yet, but it mostly has to do with his skill at lying and ability to easily manipulate and control people). But these are things they need everyone to know and might cause problems later on because they’ll interpret it as no one caring about them beyond their usefulness which is Bad™

6. Their romantic relationships?

I thought this was supposed to be about character flaws? This isn’t a flaw. Desh honestly considers meeting Ellia to be the single best thing that has happened to them since arriving in this hell hole of a fucking city. (Do not say this too loud around Reprisal or the bow I’m still trying to come up with a cool name for or the HOLY TANKARK OF INFINITE ALCOHOL.)

Fuck man, there’s someone who actually cares about them and like set them down to help them write an actual legal will. That’s probably the only legal document that Desh has relating to themself that wasn’t forged tbh. Like fuck I’m kinda tearing up just thinking about how much that would mean to them. How much Ellia means to them.

Desh fully intended to burn the whole city down if they had to back when dealing with Jill’s fucked up family and Ellia went missing. Like they would have done literally anything to ensure her safety or to exact vengeance and I just

And the stupid fucking pirate joke was so silly and pure like that honestly caught us both off guard.

But like she’s the only one who has asked Desh more than one personal question about themself and I am almost 100% certain that Desh would be completely and honestly open about her past and her family and her insecurities and everything with her. Like Desh communication is super fucking important in any relationship, but even more so to Desh and the fact that there is someone who cares. There’s no walls, no matter how stupid that might be.

Desh loves her. Like honestly loves her.

7. What is the biggest mistake they’ve ever made?

Going to Kintargo in the first place

Taking point on what they were fully aware of being an ambush and getting themself surrounded and then killed.

8. What mistake(s) do they continue to make/have not learned from?

It would be easier to list mistakes they have learned from tbh. Here’s one: don’t shoot at the faces of your teammates no matter how dope it might look.

9. Name some of their major physical shortcomings.

They can’t whistle or snap their fingers.

That’s the story and I’m sticking to it.

10. Some of their emotional shortcomings?

[takes a looooooooong drink]

boy howdy

They’re 24 years old and have heavy abandonment issues, lack a self worth outside of a price sticker slapped on them at an auction block (”463 gold for the pair”), depression, anxiety, ptsd. They never learned how to properly cope with most things. They’re fucking scared and constantly overwhelmed and nothing makes sense anymore. They never really got to be a kid and they’re kind of a total mess as an adult because of it.

11. What are their intellectual shortcomings?

That’s a bit harder to nail down??? Because something they’ve devoted their life and freedom to has been collecting knowledge. They’re fluent in 14 languages and know a lot of stuff about various entities they they might encounter in a fight. And they can probably tell you every myth and folklore from Rahadoum and Chelliax about dragons.

But honestly? People skills. They can sometimes be a bit of an awkward duck around people they’re not familiar with or in situations where they’re caught off guard.

12. At least one thing that they tend to overreact to.

SPIDERS

DESH DOES NOT LIKE SPIDERS

13. In what ways might they be overly negative and/or pessimistic?

One of the first things that y’all still ride me for is checking a cooking pot in Luculla’s house for the remains of children.

They were adamant about Thrune using his gifts to track the group’s movements.

As funny as Desh can be, her serious moments are very real and present and fucked up.

14. Is there anything they are too optimistic about?

[laughs for a solid fifteen minutes] Not anymore!

Their relationship probably. The whole rebellion not blowing up in smoke. Ending slavery in the region once it’s been liberated with no significant blow back. Being able to settle down and become a well adjusted person some day.

15. How might they be ignorant or prejudiced?

They have a problem with the word “evil”. Like everyone who is Evil is Bad. But like Ellia is Lawful Evil (last time I checked) and she’s not bad. She’s a good girlfriend and it was really complicated for a while but I think she’s kinda learning that sometimes people are just the alignment of their country by default and not Bad.

Or maybe it’s just Ellia. Probably just Ellia. She’s a beautiful outlier who should not have been counted.

16. Do they have any behaviors and/or beliefs that cannot be adequately justified?

I try and justify everything they do... I would have said their fear of spiders but... well... you kind of had a spider creature bite her face off so...

17. When would they be too judgmental of someone or something?

That time they fucking destroyed the imp.

When their first thought upon finding out that both Ellia and Luculla were missing was “Luculla’s behind this and I’m going to fucking skin her alive. She didn’t deserve me saving her life.”

18. Are they ever a pushover about something? If so, how?

She can go with the group’s mindset about most things like she doesn’t entirely give a fuck what they’re going to do as long as they can set up a decent groundwork for a plan first and no one innocent is being harmed outright.

19. Is there anything they refuse to budge on? What are they stubborn about?

Their stance on lying, control/manipulation, and slavery. That stance will never change. Ever.

But in general, once they’ve made up their mind about something they’re going to be stubborn af about it.

20. What is a self-inflicted misery of theirs? (i.e. something they perpetuate themselves)

Ooooooooooooh boy

Just read through this again. I’ve probably mentioned several.

[briefbouquetcreatorlove-blog]

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I am just curious how much insurance would be on my gf 2001 Impala with a 3.4 and 114000 miles on it. She has a clean driving record?

I cant find car insurance that will cover a learner driver and a passed driver for a month?

I am trying to pass my test as soon as possible but didn't have access to a car to do extra practice between lessons. So I have bought a car before I have passed so that I can go out practising with my mum. However I cant find any short cover (1 month) insurance which will insure us both, they seem to only do learner driver insurance which has to be bought on top of the normal insurance OR only insure drivers with a full license. However buying both together is over 300 for only 28 days for the ones I checked. Can anyone come up with an affordable way to practice in my own car? Thanks""

What's an average car insurance for a 16 year old. ?

I'm going to be a 16 year old. I'm a male and I live in maryland if that helps I have no clue about car insurance so any and all info would help! Please and thanks! (:

Cancelling Car Insurance?

Is it possible to cancel a car insurance policy within the first month (UK). My friend has written their car off within days of taking out an insurance policy (third party!). Bad luck or what? Can they cancel the car ins or do they have to pay all year?

What qualifies you for Medicaid in California?

Im 19years old. im in school but didnt get enough classes to stay on my parents insurance. now i dont have any and i only make like 600 dollars a month. i also dont get any financial aid for school. IM not pregnant or anything, i just need insurance. How much would it cost me per month to have Medicaid? Do i even Qualify? What does it cover if i do? How long would it take to get on it? PLease help im stressing so much about this.""

Cheap basic health insurance for 21 year old?

I am currently with National Health paying $408 a month for I don't know what. I've been on this insurance by my parents since before I was 18 and I just can't afford it, plus it doesn't cover me for things I need most! I have tried filling out applications but since I was not responsible for my medical records before, I have no access to dates, doctors names prescriptions names, etc. to fill out the forms. I am looking for coverage that would include generic prescriptions & annual exams. Since I don't have access of my previous medical history, I'm looking to see if there is anyone that can help me with insurance WITHOUT that information from me. I'm not sure if this is true but I've heard that some people can just pull your medical records and and see what you qualify for, so if you or anyone knows anything about this I would really appreciate your input.""

Insurance?

how much does insurance cost for a novice driver in nova scotia? i just got my license today and i need to know how much its gonna cost me...im 16 yrs old and im gonna have my own car and im gonna be the only driver.

Consequence of lending your car in terms of car insurance?

If I lend my car to my brother or sister, but I have car insurance, will they get a ticket when they drive? The car insurance covers the cost of the damage to the car, so does it matter who is driving it? What is the purpose of having someone as a secondary driver?""

What insurance do i need?

What type of insurance is required by the California DMV for a drivers test?

Can I afford the insurance for this car?

I'm 17. I may purchase a 2003 Chevy Cavalier Coupe after I get my g2 next week. I'm wondering what insurance will be like? I know there are many variables, but I'm looking for a ballpark figure. I make about $500-600 a month. Since my parents both own vehicles, I can't go under their insurance as an Ocassional Driver, forcing me to have my own insurance as opposed to being under my parents' name. I can't call for a quote because I dont have my g2 yet :P""

How much would insurance cost with a 2000 mustang convertible? HELP PLEASE!?

I'm a 16 yer old, and I have insurance with geico. I want to buy a 2000 ford mustang covertable. I was wonder if anyone knew about how much my familys insurance would go up. I realize I can call geico but my dad won't let me, ha. So any ideas? Thanks!""

Speeding ticket in california?

i got my first speeding ticket i was going 55 on a 45 how much would that cost me? and also it wasnt my car it was my parents car but i dont live with them so will there insurance go up???

Car insurance - Seonnd driver ? How does it work?

I have just got my full UK driving license. I am looking to buy a car. I know that if I buy car the insurance right now will be high as I am 23 years old new driver. I was told to put the car on my auntie's name and get insurance as second driver. But does that mean that my auntie will have to pay for her insurance too as the main driver?!? She already has her own car & insurance will she have to pay another insurance if I do put the car on her name and be second driver? Please let me know Thanks K

Any Florida (Tampa) insurance agents out there (auto)????

Well its pretty simple i have a car now and i know how much insurance i am paying now but i have a few questions since i am going to change cars in a few months i am looking at getting an Suv something like a jeep srt-8, trailblazer ss, maybe acura RDX but im not sure what kinda things make insurance cheaper like AWD vs FWD or RWD, auto vs manual etc so if you are an insurance agent and could help me please email me or im me. Thanks BTW some background info: 17 years old Male no accidents, no tickets""

""21,no job,no health insurance,need meds, what do i do?""

i live in california & i had Health insurance for 3 months (medical) but they cut me off when i turned 21 in december. during those 3 months i was taking fluoxotine for my depression/social anxiety & nexium for dyspepsia. The meds actually worked. it took 2 weeks for my mood to change. i felt happy,less anxious & more talkative! but unfortunately i have ran out. My insurance company said they only take care of youth up to age 21 & the elderly. Well what does everyone else do? do any of you over 21 have Health insurance? if so what company? I have no money to pay for the meds myself, My fam cant afford it, i have no help, i cant get a job (ive been trying for two years) i Have no idea what to do.""

Estimate for car insurance payment for 6 months ..?

i am looking to consolidate, and want to see what i actually spend is right or not --- what should be a reasonable bargain on car insurance ??- i pay 950 for my 05 and 08 car. is that too much .. for 6 months, driver for last 4-5 yrs ?? what do you guys pay .. i know it depends on what all coverage you end up taking, still any ideas would help ..""

Anyone have advice on what affordable health insurance company I should choose?

I don't want a deductable. And I want it to cover everything if I'm hospitalized.

Insurance companies will have 32 million new customers because of Obamacare. How is this socialism?

The Affordable Care Act was modeled after a Republican health care plan by the Heritage Foundation and was first implemented by a Republican governor. All this bill does is makes sure that insurance companies have 32 million new customers. I could understand if you called Single Payer socialism (which I highly support), but calling Obamacare socialist is pretty stupid.""

Santee California Cheap car insurance quotes zip 92072

Santee California Cheap car insurance quotes zip 92072

""If a driver dies, does his family's insurance go up?""

I know it seems like a stupid question, but think about it. I share my insurance with my family, I'm added as an occasional driver to keep my costs low. If I were to die (Heaven forbid) in a car wreck, would my family's insurance go up? I'm just curious, and we are through Country if that makes any difference.""

Where can I find a CAR RENTER'S INSURANCE that I could use for a week?

Found a cheap rental car- but they require insurance. Need a short short term insurance for renting car- HELP?

How much will insurance cost for a 16 year old?

im 16 years old and i wanna get a 1965 mustang and im wondering how much insurance would cost even if under my parent's plan

Is nationwide a good car insurance?

im thinking of switching from geico to nationwide it would be way cheaper but i know cheaper isnt always better

I want to insure my car for only 4 months?

Can I do this and if so how? and what is the cheapest way? I used to be with Direct Line but canceled it when I went to Uni. Now I want my car back on the road but only for the summer holidays. Any company suggestions and how much it would cost would be great, its an M reg ford fiesta and im 19 if that makes any difference. Please help, Thanks :-)""

Car insurance from abroad?

It might be a simple question, but I can't figure it out. Is it possible to have and drive a car in the UK and have a car insurance from a foreign insurance company (e.g. German or French) on a permanent basis? If not, what is the reason? If yes, do you know any foreign insurers who do it?""

How much money could i save on my car insurance by switching 2 geico?

How much money could i save on my car insurance by switching 2 geico?

Home Mortgage Insurance question?

Okay I need some info on mortgage insurance.i am currently living in my parents home which was built on their property, we don't live with my parents. My husband and I pay the mortgage, taxes, and the insurance. We are going to refinance everything into our name but in the mean time we are saving money for any down payments on the refinance(if any).Since we have not refinanced yet, what type of insurance do we buy, home owners or renters insurance?""

What are some affordable life insurance policies for people with diabetes?

What are some affordable life insurance policies for people with diabetes? Looking for $400,000 in coverage.""

Is there any website I can use to get cheap car insurance?

I've been using Auto Trader insurance comparison and the cheapest I can find is 4,400 ? Yes I'm 18 and I realise it's going to be expensive, but come on ! The cars only 750 ! No way am I paying that much, I will honestly drive without insurance as it's a pure joke to be expected to pay 4,400. I don't believe I should have to pay that much. I only want a car to drive to the Gym and that is honestly all. It's like having to pay 4,400 for the Gym a day !""

Car insurance when buying a new car?

I may be buying a new car this weekend but the renewal on my current car insurance isn't due until December - what is the usual procedure for this? Do I just call them and advise of the change of car and pay the difference? Also will my new renewal date then be in October every year? Or will I still then have to renew in December?

Insurance Coverage for Motorcycle Helmet and Jacket?

I recently Just completed a claim for an accident I was in, The insurance (progressive) is going to reimburse me for the Jacket and Helmet. The Helmet has a little scratch on the lens and that's it. the lens is easily replaceable. the Leather Jacket has a light scuff on the arm. I spoke to the local claims representative and He said that he will come by and pick up the Jacket and Helmet and throw them away. I thought I was told with the when I bought the policy that I can do whatever I want with the Accessories, meaning I could throw them away or use them or fix them up. Now what I want to know... Is the Claims representative trying to get the Jacket and Helmet for himself or is this really Policy? to throw away $600 of equipment that's still in great shape and hardly used?""

How much would it cost for monthly insurance on a Dodge Viper 2009?

Im doing a math project at school and we have to buy a car. What would the approximate cost be to insure it monthly?

Does the new Health care law say any thing about Dental and Vision insurance?

Does the new Health care law say any thing about Dental and Vision insurance? What does it say about those things Dental and vision? Is it going to make them cheaper and require them to cover more, like almost 100% of the bill for those services? When will this take affect? Will it require us to have them to? Will it give us more affordable options for Dental and Vision plans? What are they going to call affordable on those? I need a plan that will cover 100% of my Dental and Optical visits.""

Health insurance eligibility event?

how would employer or insurance company be able to verify wheather your spouse had switched jobs or lost coverage? to make it be considered an event...I NEED HELP

Help me lower my car insurance!?

im a 17 year old male driver, i was thinking of buying my neighbors 2001 car, but apparently insurance is gonna be 6000 a year with me as a primary driver. my parents both drive and both have vehicles, is it possible for them to be the primary driver on 2 vehicles if we say its for work/convenience and myself as the occasional driver on one car? my friend said i can if my parents list the honda as a secondary vehicle and their the primary. is this true/possible? orrr if anyone else knows any way to lower insurance in past experiences or just know help please! :)""

How much do you think insurance would be on a first car?&how much money do you think i will spend on gas a wk?

How much do you think insurance would be on a first car?&how much money do you think i will spend on gas a wk?

17 years old and my car insurance is way too high...?

I'm 17 years old and I live in the state of New York. A few months ago I had a little accident with my moms cars. My father said he'll buy me a car if I pay for insurance... but my insurance would be 3600 dollars per year which I won't be able to afford making minimum wage. Is there anyways I could lower the price for insurance? I really need some help thank you!

Why are my quotes for car insurance so expensive?

I understand that being 17 means my car insurance is going to be a lot. I've had friends that have said their insurance is 800 for more powerful cars that what I have been getting quotes on. I've looked at the cheapest cars to insure, Peugeot 106's, Fiat Punto's etc with minuscule engines. But I'm still getting quotes for 3000 to 4000, which I can't afford. I wouldn't be so bothered if I lived somewhere where buses ran and other good transport connections, but not having a car isn't really an option for me. Has anybody got any tips on lowering my car insurance? My parents won't let me go on their insurnace for legal reasons, being that if I do crash I could get in a lotta lotta trouble aha. I just don't understand why my insurance more than triples friends quotes of the same age and same cars. thanks""

Does your car insurance on old car cover your new car for 30 days?

i just got a new car. i traded it for a new one. i live in illinois and i am insured with geico. On my way home that night i got the car i got pulled over and got a ticket for not having insurance on that vehicle.i tried telling the cop my situation but that still didn't matter to him. So he gave me a $500 ticket. i was told when you get a new car your old insurance will cover you for 30 days. i called Geico numerous of times and they wont help me. Is there anyway to get out of this ticket? is there an illinois law that states something about this?

Cheapest car for insurance?

My parents have agreed to get me a car, but the insurance has to be cheap. We have allstate and i have no idea what the cheapest car would be to get, insurance wise. thanks for any help!""

I have a nissan 2010 I just bought and I live in California can anyone give me an approximate insurance cost ?

I have a nissan 2010 I just bought and I live in California can anyone give me an approximate insurance cost ?

How much would my insurance be?

i will be 17 in oct and hoping to save up for a car (corsa, punto, 206) and i was just wondering how much my insurance would be?""

What kind of cars cost the least amount of money to insure?

I am a teenage driver and I am looking to get my first car. What kind of cars have lower insurance rates, and are still reliable? I plan on getting a used car from around 2006-2008.""

Young drivers - What is your insurance?

Hey there! Im an 18 year old male , and to get insured on a 1999 1.0 GLS Vauxhall Corsa it will cost 3000+ a year! Am i doing something wrong , what kind of car should i look for? (that quote was from Gocompare.com). So yeah , young drivers what is your insurance , what is your car and insurance company? Thanks""

Santee California Cheap car insurance quotes zip 92072

Santee California Cheap car insurance quotes zip 92072

I have three speeding tickets in the last 6 months will my rates sky rocket?

I got my first in December of 2007, and went to traffic school. Since then, i got a speeding ticket in april and just got one this morning - i have allstate insurance - will my rates skyrocket? is there any way to call them and avoid this? what should i do?""

How much will insurance cost for a BMW z3?

I'm 16 years old but will be 17 next month. So lets say Im 17 for now. Im looking to buy a BMW z3 because they are pretty cheap and really nice cars. I maintain a 3.0 GPA and have a clean record and live in Southern California. Anyone have an estimate on how much insurance will be?

How much money does car insurance go up per year after an accident that is your own fault?

My wife and I just had an accident in a parking lot in which we backed into another car that had almost completely backed out already. No one was hurt, but the damage caused by our car is between $1,000 and $1,500. We will not have the damage to our car repaired. This accident is our fault; however, both of us have had a completely perfect driving record up until now. We just want to know how much this accident is going to make our insurance go up.""

How much should we ask the insurance company for when settling a car accident claim?

My boyfriend was recently in an accident. His chiropractor told him that when settling his claim, he should ask for three times the amount of all his total expenses. My aunt was also told the same thing by her doctor. I was wondering if anyone knew if this was a law or something?""

How would car insurance companies benefit if the driving age was raised to 18?

And would insurance cost less? please show sources if you can

Car Insurance Calculator?

Im looking for a car insurance calculator so i can see how much this car would cost to insure should i end up getting it. Im only 17 so calling a car insurance company i would rather stay away from and idk what company my parents are even with But is there a calculator that doesnt require a ton of steps and just lets me put in what car i have and some basic questions about stuff that affects a 17 year old. Calculators i have been looking at ask for like house payments and monthly income ect and im 17. I dont have any of that. So any good and easy calculators to see if this car is too expensive to buy?

Motorbike cheaper than car insurance?

Is motorbike insurance for learer motorcycle 125cc, significantly cheaper than car insurance for a small city car, for a young man?""

Health insurance in florida?

if you dont have a job yet and have children how do u get health insurance in florida and if you had a c section and a premature baby why would an insurance company deny you insurance also if your child is underweight because of being premature why would their insurance be ridiculously high each month?

Do I need a permanent address to get car insurance and register my car?

I live in california right now with my parents but I plan on traveling the country for a while living in my car. My insurance will be expired in march of 09 and I need to be smogged around then too. I wanted to leave mid december of this year and get out in the midwest/east for the next few years and just keep traveling. Can I just use a PO box address?? I dont want to use my parents address because they like to go through my mail. All of my friends are leaving to university in differnt states so I cant really rely on any of their addresses.

Which are the cheapest car to insurance in Canada?

Hello: Planing to buy a car, but I will considered a car that is cheaper to insure, any suggestion? Thank you in advanced""

Why is my insurance quote so big ?

I am UK resident from 2009. I got my drivers license 6 months ago. It's from Latvia, which is in EU. Now when I search for car insurance, the cheapest one is 5,000 GBP. Should I change it to UK license, will it reduce the price ?""

How much is driving insurance a month for a 17 year old new driver?

I just got my license today, im 17 and hae a 2.8 gpa, and am wondering roughly how much my insurance can be? any recommendations? cheapest insurance? I think i can get USAA if that helps? My grandpa is a vet.""

""If I finance a new car, how much insurance do I buy?""

I know it will have full coverage, but how much? I'm trying to get an accurate quote through geico to see if I can afford it before buying the car.""

(UK) What does group 5 mean for car insurance?

My boyfriend is looking for a new car, he found a nice rover something or other and he wants to know how much insurance will cost he searched on the internet and found the exact car he had viewed the day before and it said insurance group 5 can anyone shed some light on what this means Thank you Oh and does anyone know how big of a job it would be if the head gasket is blown? (the head gasket hasn't blown but rumours are rovers are prone to blown head gaskets and i was wondering how big of a job it would be to fix) Thanks""

If there was affordable health insurance would there be early retirements and jobs for the youth?

If there was affordable health insurance would there be early retirements and jobs for the youth?

""In the state of arkansas, is there any state programs to provide free or affordable health insurance?

i am a 36 yr old male returning to college full-time. i have two dependent children who recive arkids(medicaid). i have no health insurance currently and am not working currently

""How much is Insurance on Fireworks up to $2,000,000.00 in Maine?""

Thinking about opening up a Fireworks shop and want to know how much I'm looking at a year for insurance need a policy with the min $2,000,000.00.""

Who has the cheapest full coverage insurance in ca?

Who has the cheapest full coverage insurance in ca?

Adding 18 year old non-owner to car insurance.?

I am now 18 years old but have not yet gotten my driver's license because of the rate increase before I turned 18. I have had my learner's permit for 3 years and have a perfect driving record (no tickets or accidents). I do not own a car right now. So, I need to know if A) I need to be added to my parent's policy in order to drive their car once I get my license, and B) if so, how much more will the insurance be? I live in Florida.""

Car insurances for a day help?

I just need to drive my car to my new apartment.Right now i don't have car insurances. Is there any way i can get car insurances just for a day. I live in new jersey. I know i can get a car insurances quote but i don't have enough money right now I just need to move it

""My husband and I are looking for life insurance but dont know the diffrence in term life, accidental and whole?

My husband is only 24 but was just diagnosed with Hep C.

Is This Right? (Retinal Detachment/Cataract/Lens/Insur... Question)?

Let me make a very long story short and get right to the questions. I have moved across the United States by myself at the age of 20 with no insurance covered by my parents, nor will they ever if they could. I had a retinal detachment in my left eye. Paid out of pocket for an eye doctor appointment, he freaked out and told me to go straight to the emergency room for emergency surgery since my entire retina was detached. After my surgery, half unconscious too, a social worker got assigned to me because I was under 21 and legally dependent on the state. So the state paid for my surgery. I had a 2nd one too because the first failed. During my 2nd surgery I had cataracts in my eye so they removed the natural lens. And they never replaced the natural lens since they feared the retina may detach again like the first time. But it stay together and I turned 21. So therefore, legally independent by the state. My check up appointment was after my birthday which the front desk of the eye section declared I must pay $80 for every check up visit, which they wanted me to come in every other week. And if I did not pay, I could not go in. Due to my 6 months of surgeries and recover time I had no money, and was not working. I live with my in-laws, and they were taking care of me, but they are certainly not going to pay my medical bills. So here I am now, age 22 and I have been working for about a year. My job does not offer health insurance until you worked for a year, and even then, there is a certain month you can sign up. I have been walking around for over a year without a natural lens, or ANY lens in my left eye. This is in no way like being blind. My doctor had told me that if I got my license and drove, if ever in an accident, I would get in serious trouble because you are not supposed to drive this way. Not that I do, I cannot see correctly so it is wicked dangerous. Having no lens in one eyes messes with your other eye. Hard to explain unless you have literally had this situation before. Sunlight glares into my bad eye, then into my good eye. Same with darkness or bright lights in general. I am actually very blind at night because of this. This is literally ruining my life. I have no money to pay for insurance, or the surgery which can be easily be 10,000 dollars. Is this legal for a county hospital to do? I have never heard of anyone in my situation. Even the thousands of times I have googled and searched. Never heard of anyone in my shoes. What are my rights here? Is there some way I can fight this? Where is my justice? This is holding me back so badly in life. Please someone with real help and not a crappy site they copy and pasted, help! I need some real human help!!""

Anyone know pricing on auto insurance for a Cadillac CTS 2003?

Anyone know pricing on auto insurance for a Cadillac CTS 2003?

How much did your car insurance go up after a speeding ticket?

I got a ticket a few months ago, and I got one today. Both were oddly enough 21 mph over the limit. I have not noticed a rate increase yet, and I was wondering what others have gone through.""

How much is product liability insurance?

Its for my online womens shoe store. Also what other type of insurance would I need? Thanks

Santee California Cheap car insurance quotes zip 92072

Santee California Cheap car insurance quotes zip 92072

Can you file an car accident insurance claim without a police report?

this is re: a very minor accident. our car bumped into the other car after they slammed on their breaks. No damage at all to our car. The license plate and screws are bent on the other car. Other person uncooperative and after we gave our insurance info to them, refused to give info to us. Police on scene did not file report, told us to just deal with it on our own. My worry is, can they file a claim? wouldn't it be just our word against theirs? advice would be helpful thanks.""

What is the cheapest way for me to get car insurance?

So I am in a bit of a pickle. I was fortunate enough for my mom to buy me car. However, I need to pay for insurance. She has an insurance company but I am not allowed to be added on it until I am 21, because her car is a company car and has special insurance. So I cannot be added under her. So what is the cheapest way to insure my new car. Do my own insurance and pay a lot more $$. Or have her do another insurance on this car and add me as a secondary driver. Although, we would both be paying insurance and I am the only one driving. Bit it would pretty much cost the same. What do I do to get a cheap insurance company and how! NOTE: Please do not leave a link and say go to this website (They never work, take forever, need all this info, and some cost money) Also dont say call an insurance company. For now just please give me advice. Thanks (:""

Insurance Raise after Car Accident?

Does your insurance rates actually go up after an accident? If yes, how many accidents can you have before it increase? OR is it depending on how much the accident is in order for your payments to increase?""

How much will my auto insurance go up after a at fault accident?

I has a at fault auto accident in California. My insurance policy is not up until July. They will not tell me how much it will go up until 30 before my policy expires. I am 19 (got my license at 18) and have no other tickets or violations. I currently pay $57 month. Should I be expecting a drastic increase?

What type of insurance i need for a driving test does it have to be a full coverage?

do i need to bring a vehicle with full coverage insurance or could my car that only has a cheap insurance plan work for the DMV's driving test

Mobile Home Insurance in Florida?

I am having a LOT of difficulty finding Mobile Home insurance in Florida (nobody will insure us at a reasonable rate due to hurricanes). They are brand new Mobile Homes.... Original Premium was $1138.00 a year. We are having issues with this company & are getting quotes well over $2,000 now! That is a HUGE difference! Does anybody else know where else we can get insurance???""

Hardtop convertible increase my car insurance?

I know your car insurance increase with a convertible, but will it also increase as much with a hardtop convertible? I was thinking of getting the VW Eos, does anyone have one? Is it a good car? The other car I have been looking at is the Ford Edge but everyone tells me Ford vehicles don't whole their value? What you think I should get?""

Would insurance on a 95 Mustang GT be extremely high?

Would insurance on a 95 Mustang GT be extremely high?

What is the difference between Insurance Brokers and Insurance Agents?

What is the difference between insurance brokers and insurance agents?

How can i get cheaper car insurance?

Ok so i'll be 17 soon and i sooooo want to drive. I found a nice car, a peugeot 307 five door 1.6 car for 2700, insurance group 4. it's a great looking car, but when i filled in details on gocompare, tescocompare etc for insurance it came up as at least 15,000 for fully comp. other cars are similar prices. i put a fake birthday in so i was 17 on the system. How can i MASSIVELY reduce the cost? i dont want tips that might save 100 or 200 pounds, but something more reasonable!!! Also im a very sensible person and will be a good safe driver not a boy racer lol!""

How is affordable calculated in obama care?

How is affordable calculated in Obama care? I have tried to find the criteria of what is considered affordable in Obama Care but haven't found it. How is it calculated? Who determines what is affordable? I think $1/ month is affordable. I'm sure the government and the health insurance company's say it's more.

17 year old...bike or car?

right i turn 17 next month and was wondering what are the exact procedures into gettin a 125cc derbi gpr...how much insurance would cost...and where can i get cheap insurance...or should i just not get a bike full stop...and if i was to not get a bike...would i jus be able to insure myself on my mums car and use that whenever i like? thanks you sooo much.

Does anyone know which agency has the cheapest car insurance for liability?

Does anyone know which agency has the cheapest car insurance for liability?

Approx price for car insurance for 16 yr old?

Hey, I'm about to get my license and promotion for my current part time job, and i'm wondering if anyone know what how much would i have to pay for my car insurance, current car im planning to drive is a Nissan Maxima year 2000, I got my permit March 2007, but was too lazy to get my license, getting my license around next month...""

Anyone have good materninty insurance?

HELP... Any advice on good maternity insurance that isn't sooo expensive!!!

Can i drive without insurance?

I just got my license today I'm 16 i live in florida. my parents haven't bought my insurance yet and they say its illegal to drive without insurance. can i drive without insurance if i have my license and I'm dirving my parents car?

What liability would you have if you let someone else use your address to obtain cheaper car insurance?

I know it is morally wrong but the situation is not what it appears. I let this relative use my address before in order to hide from a former abusive spouse. Now that scenario is not the issue and for a long time I was only receiving junk mailings for her. But once or twice this year I received something from a car insurance co. I could not open it but it looked like a bill. She lives in an area notorious for sky high insurance rates. Can I get into trouble, or is she the only one committing fraud? I don't want to get in trouble for her but I do feel bad because she doesn't make much money.""

What is the best insurance for a teen?

i need car insurance and health insurance but still not sure which is better. If this helps i just graduated and live in arizona and have a yukon

How much will 2 points effect my car insurance?

I am 17 years old. I live in New Jersey, got my license 6 months ago. I was driving through Maryland and I got a speeding citation worth two points. My parents do not know about the speeding ticket, but I already paid it. How much will it effect my Geico car insurance rates? Also, I just received the advisory notice in the mail today, called the MVC and they just said it was pretty much a piece of paper saying I got a ticket....""

Where to find cheap car insurances and allows for monthly payment?

Where to find cheap car insurances and allows for monthly payment? I'm seeking for a real cheap car insurances that allows me to go for monthly payment. any one out there who has any answer, pls reoky to me asap, its really Urgent. thanks, guys...""

Buying a Toyota - price and insurance advice please?!?

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Teenage car insurance?

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I'm getting my car soon, but i don't want make a decision until i get an idea of how much the insurance on these cars are. Thanks!""

Cheap car insurance for newly leased cars?

I am looking to start my own insurance with out my parents, I already consulted and figured out that I am about to lease a 2010 Honda Civic DX coupe. I am looking for the most reasonably cheap plan, any advice?""

Santee California Cheap car insurance quotes zip 92072

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https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/home-insurance-quotes-price-nathan-stone/"

[theofficepolitics]

Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do? Part II

I’m about to be fired. What should I do?

Let me say this very clearly. If your manager has decided to get rid of you, you cannot fight that battle. Do not fight that battle. You will lose. Doesn't matter who is right or wrong. I have seen this so many times in my 11 years of professional experience that I will say this with conviction.

Now, if you are really sure that your manager is preparing to fire you, then :

"Do I simply begin looking for other positions"

Yes, right away. Keep it only to yourself.

"Do I report his increasingly erratic behavior, and waste of firm resources?"

Don't. At least not yet. It will be a waste of your time and until you are in a strong position (have already found another job etc), you will most likely weaken your position further. Remember, the company will have more interest in keeping the manager and not you. This is not the time to be a whistleblower etc and think about doing the right thing etc. The right thing to do is to look out for yourself by finding another job asap. All the other things can come later if you want.

"Do I quit before the period expires?"

Find a job if you can within the period and quit then. Do not quit on your own before finding another job.

Here is my overall take on this. You need to put yourself in a strong position before doing anything. This means that you have another job lined up. Don't worry about being blacklisted because if you do need a reference, you can always use other colleagues and not necessarily your manager. Remember the saying "most people quit their bosses not the company". And if you can find the new job before getting fired/quitting, then you anyway don't have to use current boss/company as reference because no one does that. You also will not have to explain the details of why you are really quitting.

Even though you cannot say with certainty, but whenever a manager puts someone on a "30 day review", it is most likely because they want to get rid of you. Officially, they have to do a bunch of bullshit documentation for HR and legal purposes but your hunch is almost always right.

Get out of there if you feel like you are no longer wanted. Do not confront your boss or say anything verbally or in writing. Keep it simple. Find a job, give notice to your current employer/boss in writing which should just say "I am quitting effective xyz date". Be prepared to be fired right away on the spot after your notice if they were anyway going to get rid of you. SO before sending the notice, make sure you have your desk ready to go just in case. I have seen this many times when someone is walked out of their office right away after giving notice when they were anyway going to be fired.

antidaily

793 days ago

[-]

I dunno. Maybe the job is worth fighting for. And it definitely wouldn't be the first time someone went over their superior's head and won. Or got transferred to another division.

saboot

793 days ago

[-]

> if you do need a reference, you can always use other colleagues and not necessarily your manager.

Is it okay to do this while still being employed at a company? Would you consult the colleague and ask him to not reveal you are looking for a new job?

This isn't for OP, but my own knowledge.

Jailbird

793 days ago

[-]

This may seem obvious - but yes, consult others before using them as a reference. At a minimum, you'll want to know they're happy to give you a good reference. One would hope you've developed a strong enough relationship with some colleagues as humans (i.e. beyond the confines of the "employee" relationship.) Humans don't always stay at one company forever.

Trust comes first - the rest follows rather easily.

codegeek

793 days ago

[-]

you are right. I edited my comment further on this. No one uses/should use their current colleagues/company/boss for reference anyway.

Jailbird

793 days ago

[-]

Really? In my experience, across (software/tech) in multiple industries - people (work friends, and work friends who you keep as real friends) help each other out if they're leaving (again, assuming we think well of each other and the references are honest) We don't assume interviewing equal disloyalty. A fair bit of caution is required, of course - but I see this happen all the time. Heck, I've had executives who will help you if want to leave (again - it's not disloyal), and I've carried that same approach to those who reported to me.

throwaway426

793 days ago

[-]

> Do I quit before the period expires?

If you're fairly certain you'll be fired (and it sounds like you are) wouldn't this be the most sensible solution?

When asked in interviews why you left saying you quit usually goes over a lot better than saying you were fired. And explaining why you quit would certainly not be considered a poor reason - at least not for the companies you would want to work for.

notahacker

793 days ago

[-]

A short, honest answer would be best. "I raised concerns that they might be asking me to handle data/documents in a way that wasn't compliant with Federal law. Unfortunately I'm not able to elaborate on the details, but the result was that I felt moving on would be best"

Companies really shouldn't pry any further when there's good reason to believe you're legally obliged to shut up. Plus refraining from the opportunity to rant about their dubious practises and coverups also implies that you're a sensible professional with high standards rather than a troublemaker.

The possibility that your most-likely-soon-to-be-ex-employer might feel compelled to offer you some kind of settlement in return for you agreeing not to mention alleged non-compliance or unfair dismissal to anybody else actually probably still exists. But you ask your counsel (or two or three different lawyers) about that, not HN.

FireBeyond

793 days ago

[-]

This is a good answer if directly asked. It doesn't imply guilt on either party, and as you said, this really isn't something that should be discussed further.

fsk

793 days ago

[-]

Just give a vague answer if anyone asks why you left the job "They wanted to go in a different direction." The important point is to not show stress when they ask why you left.

imsofuture

793 days ago

[-]

You don't need to actually quit to have a reasonable answer to why you left. I'm not advocating lying, at all, but you also don't have to volunteer "they terminated me". There's a lot of soft answers about how it wasn't a good fit.

Plus companies will often terminate you via a technical layoff, or 'position eliminated' instead of 'termination for cause'.

VLM

793 days ago

[-]

Can be perfectly honest about the "second best reason I wanted to quit" and just neglect to mention "Oh and BTW my boss was trying to set me up to take the rap for a felony although I figured it out before the prosecutor pressed charges, so the boss had to get rid of me ASAP to hide the evidence."

Don't give HR at the new employer any reason to wonder about what happens after you're hired. This vague stuff is not cool. Try, "My girlfriend and I were ready to moving to Portland for her job as a biochemist at xyz but it didn't work out (provide more detail here) so here I am looking for work back home" or something similarly tragic but obvious one time only concrete specific event. Or your position was in line for a forced relo and you really like (insert name of city you're interviewing at). Claim to be downsized, how are they going to know? Perhaps you have a terminally ill distant relative who did in fact recently die so now you are looking for work thats more challenging now that you're not distracted.

Also provide future, unverifiable reasons. I intend to attend the university of XYZ masters program next semester and your office happens to be down the street from the university of XYZ so I was thinking ... And if you end up not attending, well so be it. My girlfriend/mom/dad/bro/uncle is planning on moving right down the street to minimize commute, and we are a close family and oh, look, you're right next door.

The laws and lawsuits are so strict that you can pretty much tell HR anything and your former employer will only provide dates titles and salary, or you'll be collecting a large lawsuit paycheck from them. If you're going to tell a story, tell a good, believable, detailed one.

Note that if you file a lawsuit, most HR types can search the court record and will ask you why you sued your former employer for wrongful termination when you claimed in the interview that your girlfriend was moving to Austin or whatever. So settling out of court, assuming there is a settlement, is in everyone's best interest not just the former employer.

Look on the bright side, better to escape without legal action, than to escape with a "sued his employer" in the court records, which is better than "named in felony proceedings for falsified corporate accounting records" or whatever they were setting up to frame you for. You're in a bad spot but you've avoided so many worse possible spots.

ido

793 days ago

[-]

On the other hand in many countries quitting disqualifies you from unemployment benefits (or delays the time when you can start drawing then).

kelukelugames

793 days ago

[-]

In reality they will probably give him a choice: you can resign to save us the paperwork or we will fire you.

guyzero

793 days ago

[-]

Why would you be blackballed? I've been fired twice and it never really did anything for my job prospects. It sucked but it wasn't terminal. There's a strong demand for data scientists. And most organizations won't discuss why you left for fear of being sued - because if they do slander you to other companies, a lawsuit is a real possibility.

So maybe you're right. If you think it's a real possibility than quit, certainly. And it's not an either/or option - you can escalate the issue to senior management and quit at the same time.

Anyway, overall it sucks but you will survive. Good luck.

someoneElse123

793 days ago

[-]

Let's assume that you somehow don't get fired at the end of the review period. Do you still want to work for this person/company?

get out while you can.

cryodesign

793 days ago

[-]

I'd get advice from an employment lawyer right away, sounds quite dicey your situation, I'm sure your manager had to fill out a bunch of forms and give specific reasons to put you on a 30 day review. Can you find out what those reasons were? Questioning the work of an 'expert' (was that person a contractor?) surely can't be an official reason to put you on review.

Also get your previous performance reports, that will hopefully show that whatever reasons he put down for placing you under 30 day review are out of character and unusual.

Edit: typos

mdesq

793 days ago

[-]

This is absolutely essential advice. Consult with a good employment lawyer as soon as possible. They will know the legal issues at play and can counsel you on what steps to take / not take. Unfortunately, it sounds like you may be in a situation where a single misstep could be used against you. You need an understanding of what your rights are, and what your protections may be under the law. A good employment lawyer will be able to help with that.

In the meantime, I would begin a journal and start taking notes (with dates/times) on what you have been told, observations you have made, etc. This may be helpful both to the lawyer as well as anyone else when you are asked to recall things. This way, it's contemporaneous note-taking as your reference, and not some attempted recollection from some time considered long past.

stillsut

793 days ago

[-]

I'd offer the example of the intern dataminer at the Potti lab which was found to have committed a particularly egregious form of model fitting and led to its erroneous use in actual cancer patient treatment: by splitting obs from the total study into fit and test sets to give perfect agreement with the already trained model. Here the impact on ethical issues - life or death medicine - was pretty high. The guy who quit personally sacrificed his medical-school career to draw his foot in the sand, and received empty thanks only years later from Duke [1].

In data science, ethical issues seem to be present in all the interesting applications. But the life or death impact is often much less, like Netflix movie ratings - where a public datamining competition was cancelled due to a compliance-based class action lawsuit for the potential to de-identify anonymized account data [2].

It's hard to where on this ethical spectrum your particular case lies. If it's something that effects others, quit and try to make things right. If it effects lawyers v lawyers let your boss take accountability for that decision and the freedom to make it.

[1] http://www.cancerletter.com/articles/20150109_1 [2] http://www.forbes.com/sites/firewall/2010/03/12/netflix-sett...

cryptoglyph

793 days ago

[-]

The most important task you need to accomplish in the next week is this: Consult with criminal defense counsel with experience in this area of federal compliance—particularly because of the possibility that the documents you were helping to create were contrary to law. 18 USC § 1001 is a frightening statute with exceptionally broad applicability. Even if it wasn't you signing the form, if you were helping to complete the form, an Assistant US Attorney might see you as a target for a conspiracy charge. Although conspiracy requires proof of intent, that doesn't mean your life can't be wrecked by a wayward or overly zealous AUSA, even if you are exonerated later.

You may need, under whatever area of law applies here, to whistleblow to remove any potential taint on your activity. Or maybe counsel would advise you to lay low. Hard to say. That's why it's important to talk to counsel in this area of law.

Secondly, you may have cause of action for a whistleblower lawsuit. You may end up deciding not to proceed for several reasons already mentioned in other comments (expensive, time consuming, etc.), but you should seek competent legal advice from an employment attorney as well.

codezero

793 days ago

[-]

Find a new role as fast as possible and get out of this situation without burning too many bridges on the way. Your quality of life will improve greatly when you are far away from a supervisor who's actively diminishing you and your work.

pswenson

793 days ago

[-]

Tough situation.

If you want to stand up for yourself you could go over your boss's head. Risky, could get you fired immediately, but could get your boss fired/disciplined and save your position.

You could consult with a lawyer for advice...

The safest thing to do is go with the flow and quit (finding a new job first if possible). But just because something is safe doesn't mean it's the right way to go...

grecy

793 days ago

[-]

>

but I am most concerned that being fired would place future job prospects in jeopardy

In sounds like your colleagues know you're doing a great job and are an asset - use them as references on your resume for any future jobs, and there is no need to mention you were fired - you can just say you're ready for new challenges.

jfoutz

793 days ago

[-]

Most companies provide nothing beyond verifying employment dates - start and end. Providing more opens them up to lawsuits. I didn't get hired at $NEW_PLACE because $OLD_PLACE told them i watched cat videos all day.

You're working for an organization that's broken. Perhaps someone can fix their legal and ethical problems, but fixing that is not data science. There's nothing wrong with letting people higher up know, so they can perhaps resolve the issues. But remember, it takes a long time to turn a big ship. if there's already a culture of willfully avoiding ethics and the law, thats a long long process. Do you want to spend your valuable time fighting that fight, or doing good work?

I'd start looking for a new place right now.

kfk

793 days ago

[-]

Most big firms have a concern line/department you can report to in case of ethics or internal policy compliance issues, check, but maybe they won't even reveal your identity. If there is no such a line, I would start looking for another job if the felony is not a serious one, otherwise I would ask advice to a lawer. You seem to be somewhat junior? It seems to me you don't have enough experience to navigate the political landscape of your firm and a wrong move there might really hurt your carrier, so probably changing job is the best long term strategy here.

elxavit0

793 days ago

[-]

It does sound like a 30 day notice. I'd start looking elsewhere right away. To that end, there's a job fair being put on by EdSurge in Redwood City where a bunch of EdTech companies will be sending reps. There are 12 spots currently left for job seekers. Pretty sure your skills as a Data Scientist are valuable to many EdTech companies.

Here's the link to sign up for the job fair: http://www.meetup.com/sfedtech/events/221583848/

dboreham

793 days ago

[-]

Little late to this party, but a couple things to add:

1a. The fact that the manager showed up with the "30 day performance review" speech means that for sure they want to fire you, and also that he has already has this signed off by HR. Therefore going to HR, at least about the specific issue of being fired, is not useful.

1b. There is some very small chance that 1a is not true and in fact the manager is a total loose canon, or is bluffing. Up to you to assess which is the case but 1a is much more likely.

2. A trick I've used myself in the many situations I've found myself in over the years is this: imagine they make a movie about what goes down. Imagine you being played by some big name actor in the movie (the movie "Margin Call" might be a good concrete example here). Now: play time forward and consider what the guy playing your character in the movie would say when he testifies in court. Here's the important part: make sure that your actions today are consistent with that guy looking good and ending the movie not in jail :)

Put another way: think about how you would fare if you have to stand up in court at some later date and explain your actions. Think about the emails you send, the letters you write particularly.

In your case, "looking good in the movie" might involve taking the advice other folks have given here: seek legal advice and then follow it.

RomanPushkin

793 days ago

[-]

Start looking for other positions asap. Don't rely on things beyond your control.

operat0r

793 days ago

[-]

Going to run counter to the stream here - don't quit and don't give up on the company.

Every firm has crappy managers and your references to "compliance" tell me there's a fear of lawsuits. This sounds like you are being thrown under the bus by an ineffective and frightened (those two usually go together) manager. There may be a sense (which may or may not be coming from that manager) that it's cheaper to fix the problem by fixing the blame.

1. Do not check out. You don't have to quit. The PIP is a process. Lots of people come through PIPs, don't believe it's a one-way route out of the company. It's not. It is a flag that you and your manager are not on the same page about expectations and is more like a DUI or a divorce - one is unfortunate but happens to more people than you think. You find the problem, make changes and continue. More than one..that's a different problem.

2. Understand and use the PIP process. If the manager is doing all of the documenting and you are not, that's what we call a no-contest. You don't want to fight or offer opinions - focus on facts, emails, ccs, phone calls, meeting notes. Document this as your side of the PIP process. This will probably not get your manager to back down, but 1) establishes your position for anything else that's about to happen and 2) gives some back and forth to the process, which slows it down long enough for you to get to #3.

3) Are there options for a transfer? This is a discussion that you can have with HR (yes, they are there to keep the company from being sued and not for your well being, BUT remember they are also not there for your manager's well-being either; they are partly there to try and retain people who are good contributors because it costs more money to get a new employee than it costs to keep a good one). The key is how you are perceived by people other than your manager - especially your manager's peers. They are the ones who can find a new home for you inside the company if they think you are worth the investment. It's best if they thought that before this happened, but it's still not too late - you just need to know the room.

Anyway, best of luck and I hope you're hearing the majority of comments here that says this is not the end of your life or your career. It happens sometimes, and people move on if you are professional and can look at this more as training than misfortune.

yason

793 days ago

[-]

Before proceeding with the steps to ensure your personal future, spend some time thinking why it's you who's involved in this? Why are you put in such a situation, possibly in the role of a whistleblower? Is there something greater that is screaming to be done regardless of how you will personally survive? Don't literally think but take some time to listen to something inside of you. Maybe there's a call for you.

If you're sure there isn't, the next step is to go practical.

Stop thinking you will not get a future if you get fired. The future is not set. There's very little, if anything, a manager or even a company can do to prevent you from getting another job in the same city. Getting fired because of not agreeing to unlawful practices trumps bad-mouthing any day.

Make a local copy of the evidence and store it safe. If someone wants to play hardball you don't want your position to rely on your word or anyone else's. I'm not a US citizen but if there's something done not according to the Federal law I could imagine some Federal authority might be very interested in it.

Start looking for a position elsewhere. Consider your job done: don't look back. You can do that later when you're safe in another job but now is not the time. You can take a "lesser job" because you can explain it away as being fired because of not tolerating unlawful practices. At least you have your feet on solid ground again.

Then escalate the matter to your manager's boss or his boss. There should be someone in the company (or someone who's invested in the company) who's interested in unlawful compliance documents. If there isn't, run fast and don't look back.

If the compliance matter reaches parties outside the company and nobody in the company wants to do anything about it, go talk to the police if non-compliance could cause harm to other people. If the matter is company internal, leave it there: the company will eventually sink with all their baggage if they tolerate such practices.

Once you've made a plan to survival, cherish the opportunity. What would you have wanted to do if only things hadn't been so good as for your employer earlier in time? What could you try now that you're off the hook anyway and have no reason to hold back to something? What are the things are have been impossible but could now be chosen?

wwweston

793 days ago

[-]

> Make a local copy of the evidence and store it safe. If someone wants to play hardball you don't want your position to rely on your word or anyone else's.

Quoting for truth.

What companies with formalized processes like "30 day review period" are doing with their time is trying to produce a paper trail, usually to defend a decision that's already been made on some level.

You want to be doing the same thing (and, if possible, finding out what kind of trail they're possibly producing)... not necessarily to defend your continued current employment (though that's an option if you want to and you've got good enough evidence), but in case this issue ever comes up in the future.

mpdehaan2

793 days ago

[-]

I would definitely mention this in a short email to your bosses direct supervisor, or if you don't trust him, as far up the chain as you would like to go, if this involves violating law, you obviously need to not violate that.

However, the chances that they will side with you are low, so remain very civil, and be ok if that happens. There is a chance they won't terminate your boss - and will try to get you to "patch things over", which probably won't work. Still, you're nicely on the record for having reported it. If they don't respect you for nicely reporting it, it sounds like you don't want to be there anyway.

While it may be unwise to say "don't get a lawyer", I don't think you want to win that fight, as then they really will not want to have you aboard.

I'd also consider the matter of the compliance document - if this is just something like import/export compliance, it's really not that hard, and your boss may have been reacting to the tone in which it was brought up, rather than what you brought up. Sounds like it's a bit more than that though.

Companies are very likely to lay people off these days, especially so they can get them to sign agreements that limit their ability to converse on topics (i.e. severance or at least mutual non-dispargement agreements, waiving ability to sue, etc). They are unlikely to actually fire you, and if they do, I'd just be very up front about what happened when talking to companies you are interviewing with. They are likely to understand.

It's all in your emotions and how you talk about it. Having good positive references at that company is of course a good thing to have as well.

Do be looking for a job now though.

ashleyp

793 days ago

[-]

DO NOT give into this person because of fear!!! The moment you do that, he has you.

Out of curiosity, why stay in a place where they clearly feel they can just fire people at a moments notice like you're some statistic?

Could you hand in your job notice and quit before going through being fired? Do that and report the guy at the same time? If he's done this to you, who else can he do this too?

spiritplumber

793 days ago

[-]

If you are not passionate about your current projects: Find the big boss of your company, and explain the situation, then note that you're trying to avoid starting a whistleblower lawsuit by going directly to the person in charge. If that fails, keep doing your job well until day zero, but document everything illegal on a SD card or similar, and then take it to the law the moment they kick you out. It may be useful to talk to the appropriate regulatory agency NOW.

If you are passionate about your current projects, I have no real advice to offer... What I would do is probably something odd, like explaining to people that me being fired will not prevent me from finishing said projects and that anyone who has a problem with it is likely to be ignored or physically kept out of my way with whatever means I may deem necessary. However, I cannot in conscience recommend that anyone do this, it's probably one of those things that only work with me.

bedhead

793 days ago

[-]

I think it depends on a few things, but perhaps two of the most important are these.

Be 100% honest with yourself about the situation. Has your performance been demonstrably good? A consistent record of good reviews, raises, bonuses, promotions, etc? Importantly, is it documented?? Were there maybe some performance issues in the past that would cause a manager to try to find an excuse to fire you? Or truly, is this just a petty reaction from a loathsome supervisor?

What about the senior managers above your immediate manager? Are they cut from the same cloth or are they more reasonable? Will they hear you out on this issue or just say "not my problem" and defer to your manager?

If your honest-to-god performance was demonstrably good, and you think the senior managers can handle this better, I would recommend going above your manager's head. That relationship sounds irreconcilable anyway, so I don't think there is any additional damage done.

Good luck.

chdir

793 days ago

[-]

Unfortunately in such situations there's little you can do legally unless you have a good trail. Regarding reporting up, do read some of the advice here as to whose side HR would take :

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8600716

Since the damage has already been done (putting you on a performance review), the rest is just a matter of time. By damage, I don't mean any damage to your reputation outside the company though. It's better to start job hunting while you weigh your options about a legal case or talking to higher-ups. In most of the cases I've seen, it's easier & cheaper to just walk away. However, if you are very confident that someone higher-up would be genuinely interested in knowing the truth, then you should get in touch with them. Whatever you decide, start searching for jobs.

lordnacho

793 days ago

[-]

Lots of good advice in here. My 2 cents:

1) Don't worry about the future. Unless your city is really, really small, there will be other work for data science people.

2) Don't worry about your record or questions about why you were let go. You can always plead politics. It's a big firm, and people know there's politics in there.

3) Don't focus on the boss. Your new boss doesn't want to hear that you're uncooperative. Just stick to the politics line (boss couldn't get the budget for our group, blah blah).

4) Why on earth would you be blackballed? People do not generally use their networks like this, save for the closest friends. Have you ever looked at LinkedIn? Every post is happy happy. Or anti corporate politics.

5) Definitely start looking for a new job. It won't be strange why you've suddenly got a lot of half days or sickies.

6) Get a lawyer. The angle with the boss violating policy could help you. Also lawyers are generally useful in confrontations.

6t6t6

793 days ago

[-]

Please, fight back.

Companies are f* up because good people just run away when there are problems, while this kind of managers get promoted.

Keep a record of everything, bring a recorder with you, if they claim you did something wrong and you thing it's not true, say that what they say is not true. If they say they are not happy with your job, ask what you have to do to improve.

Contact a Lawyer. And ask the Union. They probably know quite well what are your options. With the history you explained, you should be able to beat them in court, but you need to be able to prove it.

If one day things get ugly, you'd better have a lot of ammunition to fight back. And remember, it's your job. They don't have the right to fire you to cover their mistakes.

If in your country it is not legal to keep a hidden recorder, at least you can put it on the table if one day they call you to communicate that you are fired.

NicoJuicy

793 days ago

[-]

Can you go over their heads? If you have any problems, there is almost always someone to raise issues to. If you love your jobs, your collegue appreciate you ( 3rd party references inside the company you can mention) and your previous peer reviews have always been positive, any boss can see there is something wrong...

I'd go over their heads, be bald. If it doesn't work, you have lost NOTHING... Don't threat the company, because then they will take it personal. Specify what is the problem and that you love working there.

Mention the raised issue about the legal problems to your boss. Say that you mentioned it as a good employee and only had negative or no feedback about it.

Other companies know that there can go something wrong, because there is always a "people" aspect in a company.. Don't worry about that.

freedevbootcamp

793 days ago

[-]

Break out the resume and polish it up. Use all 8 hours a day to find a job while at work. Connect to recruiters on LinkedIn and use every job search engine to get yourself out there. Resign on the 29th day. You will be penalized for 2 weeks of unemployment but it will be worth it. Good Luck.

brudgers

793 days ago

[-]

A lot of compliance is just going through the motions and then doing whatever it is you want. If it's any consolation, that's something I wrestle with regularly in my professional life.

Ultimately, only a court can determine what is or isn't in compliance with Federal Law. Everyone else just has a non-binding opinion. That's the nature of our adversarial system, and different from what is and isn't against one's ethics.

Any company big enough to have a 30 day review process is big enough that HR doesn't really want a mess on their hands and neither do the people responsible for other aspects of compliance. Talk to HR. Ask them to transfer you. Polish your CV. Look for other work. Don't quit because you will give up unemployment benefits.

Good luck.

vonnik

793 days ago

[-]

Firms care a lot about their reputation, and good data scientists are hard to hire when you have a bad reputation. You should try to work out a deal with the firm where they support you in your job search with recommendations while keeping you employed for a couple months.

jedanbik

793 days ago

[-]

Well, if you are in North Carolina, you should email me, as we are hiring data scientists. :)

LyndsySimon

793 days ago

[-]

Ditto here, Virginia.

mvkel

790 days ago

[-]

What makes you think you'll be blackballed from most firms in the city? So you don't get to use them as a reference. Who cares? The company isn't allowed to disclose why they fired you. You can just say "it wasn't a good fit for me" in your next interview. If they do pry and you acknowledge you were let go, explain the reasoning (and remain objective without placing blame), and they might see your side, too, or understand that you'll be a good employee.

I think you're way over-thinking this. Being terminated from a job doesn't ruin your prospects for any future position.

drchiu

793 days ago

[-]

If your firm did indeed commit a unlawful offence, you should call them out on it.

Your career at this firm is over either way.

Last thing you want to do is to be dragged back in when their offence is revealed and they use you as a scapegoat.

Be on the offensive.

hobarrera

793 days ago

[-]

> I have no desire to lose my job, but I am most concerned that being fired would place future job prospects in jeopardy.

We all fear that, but usually, being fired is never an issue with getting a new job.

> According to my colleagues, I'm very competent at my position, but this supervisor has been angry with me since I pointed out to him a few months ago that he may have violated firm policy in a severe way.

If he did severely violate firm policy, point it out to whomsoever is on top of her. They should be grateful for the violation report, and that should help keep your job.

learnstats2

793 days ago

[-]

Is whistleblowing a serious option? Given your evidence that your boss is producing illegal documents, you should consider taking this higher up -

if

they will care. Of course, it's possible that the boss is covering for company policy.

The boss currently thinks that firing you is the most effective way to make the problem disappear. For the reasons you set out, you should act to change that.

My suggestion is to make it clear (strongly imply, without directly stating) that you will whistle-blow if you remain on probation or are otherwise mistreated.

VLM

793 days ago

[-]

"My suggestion is to make it clear (strongly imply, without directly stating) that you will whistle-blow if you remain on probation or are otherwise mistreated."

Makes it look like extortion. That's not going to help.

And when the feds bust the company for felony non-compliance you do not want to be the fall guy for everything illegal your former employer ever did, including the stuff you haven't figured out yet. The first thing to do once the former employer is officially former is talk to your lawyer, the second thing to do is with your lawyers advice and help is document the false reports with the feds. You don't want to get arrested at your new job six months later because the feds finally came down on your former employer for the false reports and they set you up to take all the blame.

woah

793 days ago

[-]

Sounds like pretty bad advice to blackmail the manager. Find a new job, then blow the whistle if it is what needs to be done. Don't try to blackmail the manager to keep the job, because if you succeed you will be an accessory to whatever the crime is.

learnstats2

793 days ago

[-]

If it was up to me, I would have whistleblown already. I said that first.

I guess the manager understands that the OP will not whistleblow. Indeed, the OP doesn't seem to have considered it an option. This is exactly what allows the manager to treat the OP this way. The OP needs to show the manager otherwise.

Even if the OP finds a moderately nicer job later on, which I am sure they will, they need to do more to avoid reaching such a position in the first place. Or, this will happen again.

s_q_b

793 days ago

[-]

Just to be perfectly clear, blackmail is not an option, as it is both illegal and unethical, and I will not do anything of the sort.

I would also like to ensure that I correct the original comment in that I do not have sufficient legal knowledge to be certain that anything illegal or improper was done, which is why I am consulting with counsel before acting.

drchase

793 days ago

[-]

Not much to add given that you are consulting with counsel, but be aware that one extremely valuable attribute of legal counsel is that is where you deposit any documents that you think might be relevant -- you will surely be required to surrender all employer IP if fired, if you think there are legal issues that require you to retain documents, it's almost necessary to have them in a lawyer's care (and the lawyer will tell you what to say). I

think

and (IANAL) it would be something like "I was concerned about the circumstances of my termination, and I felt I needed to consult a professional to be sure I took the right steps." Which is true, yet vague, yet also not overtly threatening.

I would be wary of whistleblowing, but I would also be very wary of saying anything more to your employer than what is legally required (or than your lawyer advises). I don't see that we have socially made whistleblowing worth the risk to you, therefore, you should not take that risk, but if it helps your case, your severance, whatever, for your soon-to-be-former employer think that you might make trouble for them if they piss you off even more, that might be okay (if they're certain that you might make trouble for them, that's another matter and maybe a problem).

For the non-legal and probably more useful advice, this does not sound like a job that is worth keeping. You can't fix a bad boss, you're not paid enough to fix a bad boss (it ought to be the case that you would get a massive bonus for fixing a bad boss, but sadly the world does not work that way) better to look out for your own sanity and well-being. Don't burn bridges, don't slack off, I also don't recommend knocking yourself out in an attempt to save your job because (you wrote here for advice, here it is) it's not worth saving, DO prepare a resume and send it out, and follow the usual recipe of applying to as many places as you can stand managing all at once. It ought to take a few weeks for the sent resumes to turn into interviews, so it's not that likely to take too much of your (not-slacking-off) time. Ask your lawyer exactly what to say if a potential employer asks why you're leaving, because it's a delicate dance and there's things you probably cannot safely say (for example, what you've said here...).

learnstats2

793 days ago

[-]

I didn't intend to advocate blackmail and I'm sorry that my comment reads that way.

However, there are not many actions in business that are perfectly ethical.

And, you won't always have decent recourse in law even if someone acts illegally against you.

For now, good luck.

bdcravens

793 days ago

[-]

>My suggestion is to make it clear (strongly imply, without directly stating) that you will whistle-blow if you remain on probation or are otherwise mistreated.

No. Not only is this a bad approach for what is probably a bad company, you have an obligation (potentially one with consequences) to report illegal/uncompliant activity. HN and elsewhere is filled with stories of corporate abuses that could have been prevented but for someone who just wanted to keep their job.

If you really want to feel like you're righted, you leave, and then report, and hopefully get some folks fired along the way, and ideally it'll cause the company to lose some money as a result.

walshemj

793 days ago

[-]

Yes it would be awful if this got onto gawker or pando :-)

anonbanker

793 days ago

[-]

You have been constructively dismissed[1]. You need to be talking to a lawyer immediately to begin your wrongful dismissal lawsuit. Don't wait until you're fired. start finding a lawyer now.

if the lawyer you talk to doesn't want to do it, or drags his feet, find a lawyer who will. You have a straightforward case, and your odds for settlement will be rather high.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructive_dismissal

aagha

793 days ago

[-]

> I have no desire to lose my job, but I am most concerned that being fired would place future job prospects in jeopardy.

Unlikely. Firing, head-count reductions, etc. are a normal part of business today. If it happens, it happens--there's no shame in it. Sometimes, being let go can be a blessing in disguise.

Take steps to make sure you're safe and mentally happy. It's a job, not your life. If it's your life, you've just learned a lesson: Don't make your job your life.

You will bounce back. It's what (most) people do.

pknerd

793 days ago

[-]

In my last job I had faced similar situation. The HOD wanted to get rid of me to colleagues and higher-ups. Unlike you I did not hesitate termination. Once my dues were clear I wrote an email to entire department, HOD, HRM and CEO and shared everything. The end result, I felt satisfied and some other pals saved themselves by quitting themselves.

Moral of the story: Be Courageous. If you are skilled you will get a job anyway. Who knows someone from HN already has approached to you?

pekk

793 days ago

[-]

"If you are skilled you will get a job" implies that the only people who aren't getting jobs are unskilled, and that is very much false.

geoelectric

792 days ago

[-]

Look for the job now. While you're still employed, you have an airtight excuse for not providing a manager reference from your current job ("They don't know I'm looking."). That lets you provide either your last manager, or a sympathetic coworker instead.

Wait until you're gone and it gets much sketchier. People will assume the worst if you don't provide your previous manager.

joshribakoff

793 days ago

[-]

Whats more likely, that your boss "gets off" on wrongfully firing you, or that there's some attitude problem you don't recognize about yourself?

I'm going to say something that'll probably be unpopular & rude, but you want an honest answer. I don't know the full story, but from your own accounting of it - it does sound like you have a problematic attitude & the problem may be with you & not the company.

Your boss told you to follow someone's instructions & work under a person. Instead of helping, you went above that person's head & above your bosses head & consumed time auditing your superiors. You also called them an "expert" (backhanded compliment).

Personally I'd rather hire someone less skilled who follows instructions. If someone asks me what I think about a person's work, I'll be honest & say its not in compliance, but it sounds like you're going around actively telling on people for trivial stuff. They have a right to weed that type of attitude out, and you have a right to seek employment that values that type of attitude - so stop fooling yourself with this talk about "fair" & "not fair". If you're in an at-will work state there's no such thing as "unfair" termination. They don't want you anymore. Either make them want you (by being honest with yourself about what they disliked), or accept it & move on.

s_q_b

793 days ago

[-]

I've thought that through deeply, but the reality is that this isn't about fairness, this about a very specific set of actions. I didn't "go around telling on" anyone. I simply told my project manager that we couldn't use the document I was instructed to write for the purpose he was asking, because ethically I did not feel it would bring us into compliance with a mandated standard.

I am sure your intentions are good here, and certainly this a time to reflect, but I am not complaining about fairness of anything.

It's simply not ethical to put someone on review for raising an issue after months of careful consideration, especially given that my superior concurred with the judgment, and cut ties with the "expert" under whom we working. (I put "expert" in quotes not for snark, but because I want to be clear that this is the firm's terminology, not mine.)

I should also note that my colleague with whom I worked on the project, but is outside of my superior's chain of command, concurred with my concerns and stated so as well.

ScottBurson

793 days ago

[-]

In your position I would be looking for another job the moment I was put on 30 day review, if I hadn't already started.

It's easy to find another job when you have one. While, given your specialty, I wouldn't expect you to have a lot of trouble even after getting fired, it's still not going to be quite as easy as it will be while you're still in this job. Start tomorrow!

atlih

793 days ago

[-]

Don't worry about it. There's plenty of need for Data Scientists and the need is growing exponentially in the months to come.

mavdi

793 days ago

[-]

Mate my two cents: move on. I see a lot of comments urging you to fight this tooth and nail but it really isn't worth it. It's a losing battle, the job is lost and whatever you do to try to win it back will not work unless some miracle happens. Save your energy for a new job, a better job working for people that value honesty and integrity.

pkaye

793 days ago

[-]

Main thing is make sure you have collaborating evidence against your manager. Like good past reviews and coworkers who would support you. HR loyalty lies up the management chain so normally it is an up hill battle. But if you are a good performer and have others who support you, HR can be turned around.

tberghane

790 days ago

[-]

If you're about to be fired, I advocated saying NEXT and moving on to something better. We work with about 25 tech startups here in NYC, and currently have a handful of Data Sci Roles that could be more than happy to chat. Feel free to shoot me a note: taylor@singlesprout.com. Happy to help!

mbrubeck

793 days ago

[-]

My sympathy; this is a tough situation and you don't deserve to be in it.

Some words of hope: In a surprisingly short time, you will be able to look back at this with some much-needed distance. You'll have moved on to better things, and the problems of your old firm will no longer be your problems.

yegor256a

793 days ago

[-]

Check this, maybe it will help you:

http://www.yegor256.com/2015/03/02/team-morale-myths-and-rea...

jms703

793 days ago

[-]

You don't want to work for this kind of company. Start interviewing now. If you're really worried about the fallout from termination, then quit.

If you're as good as you say you are, your departure will have an impact and you'll have your choice of jobs.

arbre

793 days ago

[-]

Don't worry too much about the impact on your career. People know that these things can happen. The recruiters might have had similar experiences themselves. Fight if there is an injustice and then move forward. I wish you luck !

zerr

793 days ago

[-]

>blackballed from most firms in this city

Why? Do you have some kind of Public Hall of Shame where you put those who have been fired? Or do you live in some small village where everyone knows everyone and everything? Really interesting.

alexqgb

793 days ago

[-]

The problem is that while prospective employers can't ask your companies HR dept. to verify anything beyond the most basic facts of your tenure, they can make note of whether your direct manager is included in your list of references.

The fear (perhaps unjustified) is that any signal indicating a less-than-amicible seperation will be treated as a red flag by potential employers, who would prefer to give the position to someone who is either recruited for that spot in particular, or is trading up cleanly.

This is less of an issue for people with a specific and clearly demonstrable skill set that's in high demand, but to the extent that finding a new position demands some growth on your part (i.e. an employer willing to place some faith in having you develop on their dime) this can add to the potentially crippling sense of self-doubt and insecurity that a situation like the OP described will engender.

There's a school of thought that says your optimal career moves should be based on you getting yourself into places you want to be, not running from places you don't want to be. If you know this, and you're in a situation like this, you already feel you're having to make the most of a bad hand, and that where ever you go next may end up being a severe compromise you have to live with for some time.

cromulent

793 days ago

[-]

a) Hi, I'm calling to check the references of your ex-employee named Ted.

b) We have a company policy against giving references but I'd be happy to discuss the weather with you.

a) Okay.

b) The clouds are moving lazily across the sky and everyone thinks they're stupid.

http://assets.amuniversal.com/bcdb80c06d5101301d7a001dd8b71c...

pekk

793 days ago

[-]

"References required"

fredkbloggs

793 days ago

[-]

Anyone who's ever worked with you can be a reference. It's normal to choose someone other than your immediate superior as a reference, especially if you're interviewing elsewhere while still employed there. Anyone who insists specifically on speaking to your previous (or current!) supervisor is nuts. Never had that happen at any time in my long career.

DanBC

793 days ago

[-]

What does your union rep say?

moron4hire

793 days ago

[-]

I think you're grossly over estimating the impact of getting fired.

eweise

793 days ago

[-]

Contact an employment lawyer. Are you over 40? Do you work overtime? Are you covered under whistle blower laws? You are probably going to lose your job but you may have a solid lawsuit.

CodeWriter23

793 days ago

[-]

I believe rejection is the universe's way of helping you find out where you truly belong. It is hard to see that in the present; it really can only be observed in hindsight.

2390902390

793 days ago

[-]

Throwaway for some reasons.

I would like to be fired, but I was never lucky enough:

1) in my country you get 3 months redundancy (unless you steal or make other crime on company).

2) you get 1 year unemployment support. Not gonna happen if you resign on your own.

3) as alimony slave you can not quit your job. Being fired is opportunity to find less demanding job.

Anyway for your issue I would recommend two things:

1) go to your boss, tell him you do not care about his screw ups, and ask to be reassigned far away from him to different department, or different company. Explain him how bad your situation is, and that he is going down with you.

2) Discover that you are gay or your great-great-great-great grandfather was from Africa.

SEJeff

793 days ago

[-]

Have you considered reporting your supervisor to his supervisor? Talking to HR?

walshemj

793 days ago

[-]

Can you file a grievance against your boss using the company's procedures?

a3n

793 days ago

[-]

It's 30 days notice. Start looking. Resign before being fired if you can.

remyp

793 days ago

[-]

Even if you get "blackballed" in your city (which seems unlikely) that doesn't stop you from finding a remote position with a firm in another city.

DevKoala

793 days ago

[-]

Start looking for a new job now.

funtober

793 days ago

[-]

Hi. Nights & weekends startup founder with a day job at a whistleblower law firm here. [1]. The following comes with all of the standard caveats about this not being legal advice. [2]. I'm going to talk generally and you can draw your own conclusions. But my advice is to call an employment attorney tomorrow so they can give you specific advice. Most will do a free initial consultation, and anyone good would take a look at whether you should be reporting this to the government under one of the whistleblower programs.

Quitting is almost always a bad idea unless you have enough savings to last a ridiculously long time. If someone quits, they forfeit unemployment in most situations. Future employers will ask you why you quit, and you will be in essentially the same position as if you were let go.

Interviewing: Everyone should always be interviewing. Most employment is at-will and you can be fired for almost any reason. It's easier to find a job while you still have a job.

Internal Reporting: Frequently doesn't end well for the person reporting compliance issues. Be especially sure that the violation is a real issue before continuing to report it.

Retaliation Lawsuit: There is no catch-all law protecting people from retaliation. There are piecemeal statutes that cover a number of popular situations, but they also depend on your state and the specific issue that you reported. If you are covered, you are looking at several years of litigation in order to receive a maximum of what is usually 1-2 times your lost compensation while they attempt to prove that they fired you for a legitimate reason. If the company is legit, they would probably offer you severance that eliminates this possibility.

Whistleblower Rewards: There are a number of federal programs that offer rewards for bringing information to the government. The two that would be most applicable to a data scientist I think are the False Claims Act (health care, etc) and the Dodd Frank Act programs (SEC & CFTC for violations of securities laws). If you take information to the government and they fine the company as a result (greatly simplified as there are lots of other terms and conditions), then they offer between 10 and 30 percent to the whistleblower.

Sorry this has happened to you.

[1] Feel free to track me down if you want to chat. For those considering downvoting this as solicitation, I will say up front that it's unlikely that my firm would be interested in the situation as described.

[2] This is general information that you can find elsewhere on the internet. It isn't specific advice to your situation. This answer does not form an attorney-client relationship. We would only have one if you signed a written retainer agreement with my firm. Each state has its own laws/rules and I'm only licensed in one state, which is likely not yours. So you should seek legal advice from an employment attorney in your state immediately. Sorry that this is even necessary to say.

NicoJuicy

793 days ago

[-]

Ca

michaelochurch

793 days ago

[-]

What do I do? Do I simply begin looking for other positions?

If you mean external other positions, the answer is yes.

Looking for internal transfer is not going to be effective. Once on a PIP, your odds of moving are effectively zero. No one will say that transfer's impossible (legal/HR reasons) but it's basically over. It sounds like you were a good worker but broke the #1 Rule of Corporate Employment: make the boss happy. Don't worry; this is a common mistake.

Do I report his increasingly erratic behavior, and waste of firm resources?

I wouldn't. It's not worth your time, and it won't get you your job back. You have 30 days to live, and it takes months to beat a bad boss. Not only that, but it takes reports from about 3-5 subordinates and most people aren't willing to risk their jobs. Corporations value consistency over correctness and his being a manager means that they trust him over you. You won't win. You'll hurt him a little bit, but that shouldn't be your goal.

I know someone who actually beat his boss. He had a bad boss, he got a bad performance review for something that wasn't his fault, and he managed to get five or six people to hit his boss with the same story in "360 reviews" and take him down. It took months and, while his performance reviews were amended, he was still screwed. Even though he had taken out one of the worst managers in the company, managers (like police) tend to protect their own, at least when it comes to the outside world, and no one wanted to promote him or take him on. He ended up getting laid off a year later.

Do I quit before the period expires?

Only if you find another job. You might get a severance if they fire you. If you quit while you don't have a job, you get nothing and the result (you're unemployed) is the same as if you'd been fired.

You are going to get fired at the end of the 30 days, but getting fired isn't (except in a few overly chatty/cliquish industries) a big deal at all.

I do not wish to move, and if fired I will be effectively blackballed from most firms in this city.

Why? Most people, by age 40, have been fired at least once. It sucks, but it's not the Scarlet F that you might think. If you pass the siege test (6 months of savings) then it may be expensive, but you'll survive it.

As for reputation issues: I think the firm will be good to you unless it's run by idiots. You have knowledge of illegal activity. You absolutely cannot leverage that in asking for a cash severance (it's extortion) but, if they don't agree to a contractually-guaranteed positive reference, it might be time to bring up the fact of the need to reach mutual agreement on a story that is beneficial to both parties. You'll probably get an arrangement in which you can represent yourself as employed during your job search. You may get a contractual written reference and an agreement by your manager not to contradict it.

They would rather let you go in a way that doesn't blackball you than have you blow the whistle. Trust me.

Use your colleagues as references and have your manager's reference checked by a third party, even if you have a contract. Unless his reference is glowing, don't use him. Say that your manager went on a mission to Uganda and that's why you can't use him, or that you were managerless due to bureaucratic error but colleagues X, Y and Z can speak for your ability. Or, take the risk and tell the truth: you refused to do something illegal and were fired for it. (Say as little as possible; bad-mouthing an ex-employer is generally a no-no, and it's usually seen as better for both sides to tell a mutually face-saving lie than to expose an ex-employer's bad behavior.)

You should reach out to me (michael.o.church at Google's email service) if you still have questions.

Getting fired is bad-- three months of joblessness is expensive, especially if they fight your unemployment claim-- but it's not catastrophic and the likelihood that any of this follows you is low.

Also, it's actually pretty hard to blackball someone. I've had people try to blackball me and I ended up winning. In some cases, I've made the attempts to do so very expensive for the people involved.

marktangotango

793 days ago

[-]

>> You have knowledge of illegal activity.

I'm surprised you bought this as well. The OP claims there are compliance issues contrary to federal law, but he's not a lawyer (at least the OP did not state he was) or a compliance expert (indeed a novice needing traingin), and anyone who's dealt with compliance knows there are vast degrees of wiggle room when interpreting regulations. So, the claims of illegal activity are hollow and unstubstantiate, imo.

Firegarden

793 days ago

[-]

Listen man. There is a certain power in walking away. Don't give that away. Think about your power for a minute. How much power would it be to hand in a written letter CLEARLY outlining the issue described using MINIMAL WORDS? Somebody would have to look at the situation in detail and if you really deserved to be commended for your honesty then it would come out.

The tables would be completely turned.

1. You would have officially quit. HUGE WIN 2. You would have an opportunity for others to see your side of the story FIRST 3. You may have some chance of coming out on top and even staying with the firm if your letter was written with "much regret" that you absolutely have no other choice because of the hostility and actions of retaliation etc. 4. You can take that letter to the next employer and say I stand behind my actions in a tough situation.

Stay with your power man. You don't want to risk carry around the victim chip forever more you will either be telling this story as a sore loser or as a man with a power and sense of right that can never be taken from you by a "superior".

Bottom line it's victim vs empowerment perspective. In your question post (no offense) you sound like a victim of some one else's actions against you. Really it's just one perspective. Assume the self empowered perspective and they will have no choice but to recognize. Tell the story of how you don't take BS you throw it in the trash.

Fuk you, fuk you, your cool, fu*k you im out.

[EDIT] P.S. If you really want to step it up and become movie ending cool. You get that letter done up and you walk in with it. You show the envelope to the bad boss and you say in a private way to only him "I am handing this in to watch you suck tomorrows dick".

dllthomas

793 days ago

[-]

"1. You would have officially quit. HUGE WIN"

Until you have to collect unemployment, or sue for wrongful termination.

a3n

793 days ago

[-]

If you're fired for cause, you probably can't collect anyway.

dllthomas

793 days ago

[-]

Possibly. It all depends a great deal on jurisdiction and circumstance.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/unemployment-benefits...

"In many states, an employee's misconduct has to be pretty bad to render the employee ineligible for unemployment benefits. An employee who is fired for being a poor fit for the job, lacking the necessary skills for the position, or failing to perform up to expected standards will likely be able to collect unemployment."

To be fair, quitting in this instance may fall under "constructive discharge", but generally speaking for this kind of thing you have significantly better odds when the other party needs to demonstrate that you're an exception than when you do. I know a place I worked once caught someone with their hand in the till, and wound up paying unemployment because proving it was going to be a bigger hassle.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/unemployment-benefits...

s_q_b

793 days ago

[-]

If fired, I would be eligible for unemployment benefits essentially no matter what. The employer would have to prove gross or serious misconduct for benefits to be denied, and that would only result in a delay of eligibility, not an outright disqualification.

Also, the onus is on the company to demonstrate the misconduct, and the price of an attorney to make that case would far exceed the cost, and creates risk of litigation. So I mostly likely won't be begging on the street, which is a tremendous relief.

[luna-pun]

Why “Planned Parenthood” is a bad thing

-and that you should feel bad for even thinking of supporting it.

I hope everyone has ample hearing+reading comprehension, because boy howdy do I have some info here:

A video disproving the “3%” notion that they keep trying to peddle

And here’s an article

And another dispelling the “3%”

Here’s why “but women NEED PP! It’s the only place for care!” doesn’t work

There are way more alternatives

I mean PP doesn’t even have mammograms

“But if we close them down, women will get back alley abortions!” won’t work either

Another supporting the previous

and another for good measure

___

“But the videos are heavily edited!” you say?

No, they’re not

The company that PP hired even admits there were no “malicious edits”

Here’s a non-biased report on it as well

___

“It’s only tissue!”

They’re parts from an actual baby. What do you think “tissue” is?

_

PP has been audited in 9 states, with all nine showing fraud.

Don’t believe it? Here you go

_

Here are the videos, by the way. Warning for gore and disturbing subjects/material

_

And a few more links, because it can’t be stressed enough

That PP

doesn’t “stand for women”

and never will

They’re also incredibly petty

so there you have it

They think you have the right to give others HIV btw

Masterpost just because

Oh and science proves that a fetus is a whole other human life fyi

PP is pretty much PETA, but for humans. Both are full of lies, slaughters innocents, and will do anything for money. Anything.

Please read through everything before commenting.

As a bonus, here are some rebuttals of already-made arguments;

“The woman should still be able to choose! It’s not your body!” - You’re telling me that even though science has proven that life begins at conception, you think murder is okay as long as the woman thinks so. She should’ve chosen not to have sex, in that case. That’s what sex does. Make life. Doesn’t matter what reason a person tries to stick to it; you can’t change nature. Your body doesn’t care about your reason. It’s also not your body that’s being killed. Science has also proven that.

“But rape!” - Is it the baby’s fault? No. (1)If you don’t want it, put it up for adoption. There are a lot of places that can and will help if you reach out to them. (2)In most cases, it helps the victim to heal by keeping the child. (3)Rape cases make up an incredibly low %. (4)There are good people that were born from such horrible, sickening cases. As horrendous as it was, there is still a chance that something good can come of it. Again, it’s a whole other life. It didn’t ask for such things to happen either. I am fully for getting all victims as much care as they can get, though, and having the rapist get sent through hell + making them work for the rest of their lives.

“But the woman could die!” - Do you know how low that number is? If there truly is no possible way to save both, then a decision can be made. Sometimes, nature can be very cruel. That’s a sad part of life. I can admit that much.

“PP helped me/someone I know with some other thing!” - Good for you/them. Still doesn’t change what PP has done, though. It’s like saying “Hey, that serial killer saved my life!” Doesn’t make him/her a saint, and doesn’t deter from the fact that she/he killed people. And just because one location did something, doesn’t mean that suddenly the whole organization is cleansed of its wrongdoings.

“No uterus, no opinion!” - …excuse you, rude one, but I am a woman, and thus, have a uterus.(Shocking, I know) Plus, if that were true, then abortion would be illegal. Since, you know, it was men who made it legal. Men who tricked Norma McCorvey into thinking that abortion was a good thing. I believe there’s a post floating around documenting just what went down in that case. (Hint; she’s now very pro-life and regrets what happened) Also; you should discuss it thoroughly with your S.O. if you want a baby or not. If one of you want a kid, but the other doesn’t (or vice versa), then maybe you should look for someone else. Communicate.

“A baby will ruin a woman’s life!” - Again, rude. I, as a woman, thoroughly dislike being made out to be some weak, pathetic being that constantly needs “help”/to be coddled. (1) Around 97% of abortions are out of convenience. Meaning that 97% could’ve decided against having sex/”invoking the ancient ritual of reproduction”. (2)If you’re so sure that a baby would ruin your life, then you need to choose not to have one in the first place. Sex creates life. You really can’t do anything about it. As I said; nature does not CARE for your reasons to get freaky. It just sees you doing the do and go “You want BABY!!! OKAY! I’LL GET RIGHT ON IT!! MAEK THE BABBEY!!!” (3) It won’t ruin your life unless you let it. Positive thinking goes a long way, as corny as that may sound. (4) Look around you. How many mothers have you met that say they regret ever having kids? How many have said that their lives have been ruined?

“It’s just a bundle of cells!” - Science has proven that it is, in fact, a whole other life. Age and location does not a worthwhile life make. Or lack thereof, for that matter. You skin is not a separate entity from yourself. A fetus is still human, and will always be a human as it grows.

“It’s a parasite!” - What did I just say? It’s cells make up an actual human. It needs help to live even after it’s born, and so do some people with certain diseases. You want to say that all newborns, coma patients, and others are parasites?

“There are too many people already!” - There aren’t, actually. Earth can hold even more. If you’re that worried, however, you can just not have sex. Not needed to live, after all. You understand that your body can and will try to create life once you’ve taken part in intercourse, right? And way to think little of the human race. 2edgy4me.

“Consent to sex is not consent to-!” Let me stop you right there. Do you know what sex is naturally for? Do you know how the human body works? You are literally arguing against nature itself. It’s like eating raw chicken and complaining when you get salmonella or something smh.

“The baby won’t live a worthwhile life! It’ll be painful!” - You do not, and will never, be able to decide whose life is worth living or not. Any time you try that excuse, you just basically insulted anyone and everyone who’s gone through strife. You just told people who have lived through horrible times, that it would’ve been better if they had been aborted. That their life isn’t worth living. That is not for you or the “mother” to decide.

“But disease! Some parents can’t afford/handle that!” - And now you’re telling me that disabled people aren’t worth it. It is costly, and it is mentally taxing, yes, but it is never worth it to kill them because of it. A lot of disabled people enjoy the act of living, fyi. +A lot of times (and I mean a LOT), the doctor(s) is/are wrong about whether the child will have/develop problems. (2)If your family has a history of bad health, it might be better to lay off having sex (and just adopt if you want a kid). There are also programs out there that can and will help, should you look.

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Many thanks to those who made this post possible. You’re all remarkable people.

Feel free to add on and whatnot. Resources, science facts, links, etc.

(And anyone who tries that “car wreck” comparison will be side-eyed into oblivion.)

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Reposting because this still needs to be spread. Also did a bit of editing.

Remember to read everything before commenting. E V E R Y T H I N G. This cannot be stressed enough. I have addressed several commonly used arguments already, and will not be repeating myself. If you can’t read, or try to make assumptions, you will be blocked. You can also search my blog for other posts/refs/sources/etc. There should be more well-thought-out posts hanging around that can better explain and source the arguments that I have typed out above.