#(And I've been thinking about some panels where Bruce has to LET his parents get killed in some way or another)

[danny-chase]

What are things generally accepted as canon that you disagree with?

Damian being the angry violent one (he had character development DC literally makes him repeat the same storyline over and over y'all just don't take the end into account, and also conveniently forget the times TIM started their fights), Tim being the smart one (they're literally all smart, Damian has a phd equivalent in economic, Dick has more emotional intelligence and street smarts, the smart one title is dumb), Jason being the best tactician of the group (hello does Dick leading the Titans for decades and being set up to lead the JLA mean nothing???). Cass, Steph, and Barbara's current canon personalities are garbage and boring and while technically it is canon I disagree on principle because you're choosing the worst version of canon to replicate and spread.

Dick taking Robin away from Tim is a big one i disagree with because while it's considered canon it's just blatantly untrue and skates by as true because no one reads Battle for the Cowl in the first place and the panel of Alfred giving Damian the Robin costume is easy to miss/forget. Tim's the one that pushed people away after Bruce died and I guess fandom collectively forgot that he told Dick not to call and physically attacked him to make a point?

Pit madness existing. It doesn't, it was never canon. On a similar note I disagree with the autopsy scar headcanon which made its way onto a variant cover iirc, because Lazarus pit does some stuff and I think scar erasure has more interesting story potential (especially for Cass, who had a significant amount of scars inflicted by David Cain). In a different vein with Jason something that used to be canon that isn't considered canon anymore that I wish was still canon is the red hair because it gave him a Dr. Doof style backstory and i was there for "my own father made me dye my hair red to look like my brother" black and white monologue directed at a platypus wearing a fedora

On Bruce's parenting. I feel like the general perception of canon is he was good as a parent up till Jason died and then was shit from then on. I disagree because it partly has to do with which crisis continuity you're at. He was was pretty shit with Dick post-crisis onward both in flashbacks/stories told in the past and being physically abusive in the present, was still decent/good with Jason, was actually surprisingly good with Tim from what I've read, wasn't exactly parental with Steph but as a mentor was a fucking asshole, and with Cass was pretty sucky - there's a scene where he gets high and fights her because it's "the language she understands" and he also fires her from Batgirl multiple times (which isn't really his place, it's Barbara's mantle) and is in general overprotective and a bit of a shotgun dad. It's not like Jason dying changed everything about his crappy/non crappy parenting, from my perspective at least

Raven as the goth one and Kory as the naive space princess are both considered canon and are written into canon at this point and fr i hate it. Both of their personalities were streamlined for the cartoon and butchered by comic writers who skipped ntt

The general unimportance of the Titans and lack of any current writers to read their earlier stuff is sad rip

Idk if these were the types of things you were looking for but let me know if you wanted something more specific

Edit: with Tim i mean good by Bruce standards, he's not winning any awards, he still makes mistakes (telling Steph Tim's identity, leaving him with Jean Paul Valley as Batman and the advanced training thing) but he genuinely seems like he's trying and wants to be there for Tim, which for Bruce is good

Edit 2: wait i have another one, the idea that Jason is good at cooking and Dick sucks at it. Jason let's Bizzaro cook for the Outlaws and Dick has been shown cooking multiple meals across canon and teaching Tim how to do homemaking stuff in Batman: Prodigal

[scandalsavagefanfic]

Hello! I am a huge fan of ur writing. I've loved everything I've read of yours. I've read alot of what you've posted, except for a couple of the tags that are squicky for me (so I'm very thankful you tag very thoroughly). No judgement for the squick, it's just not for me. & when I'm having a bad day, I usually just go thru ur ao3 and find something to reread. I think about Therapy's Bruce & Jason every damn day. While I obvs appreciate ur darker more "problematic" content (I really vibe with some of the themes you write about bc of my own trauma, & so it's very cathartic to read about in a fictional setting), I am truly a sucker for ur more happy content. The Happily Ever After verse also lives in my head rent free. Idk more wholesome stuff just seems more special when you write it. Anyways. I would die for you. But the point of this ask is cause I'm curious as to why you don't like Urban Legends? I'm sorry if you already talked about it here or on twitter and I missed it. I was just wondering because I really enjoy your take on things and would love to hear why you dislike it. I've been enjoying it so far personally, but I am always open to DC comics criticism.

Aw thank you so much! I'm so flattered by everything you just said. You're so sweet ❤❤❤❤❤

I haven't talked about Urban Legends here or twitter (I haven't been very active in either place lately. Just a lot going on and no energy 😔) but I'm happy to do it here.

Before I start though, I just want to add a standard disclaimer and make it clear that if you like it, there's nothing wrong with that and you don't have to let me ruin it for you lol. Like what you like.

That said, since you asked...

I said this when I was talking about it on discord, that there is a difference between hope and expectation. I always hope that a new story centered on Jason (or anyone really, but things have been especially egregious for Jay for 15 years) will be good or at least treat the character with a minimal level of respect (to be honest, the bar is super fucking low). But my expectations always temper my hope, to keep it from getting unrealistic. Because my expectations are based on experience.

The long history of Jason Todd, since even before his resurrection, has been one of retroactively trying to make him "a bad seed" in order to absolve Bruce of any responsibility in his death.

I don't even expect DC or their writers to start honoring the fact that Jason was not an angry, reckless Robin (and less of the later than Dick or Tim and definitely Damian). There plenty of ways that retcon can be folded into his history and be compelling and sympathetic. And if they're going to stick with that retcon, I'm only asking that they do it in one of those compelling and sympathetic ways because Jason was 15 when he died, heroically, in one of the most selfless acts in comics, to save a woman who literally handed him over to be brutally murdered. He was 12 when Bruce plucked him off the streets, he'd been homeless and fending for himself for at least two years. I personally think that Jason's story hits harder for him and Bruce if their original, canon relationship, of Jason as starry-eyed and eager to learn and absolutely devoted to Bruce and Bruce to Jason, is preserved. But Jason's origins does leave room for a meaningful interpretation of him as angry and frustrated at the lack of meaningful results of Bruce's methods.

And that's really where my irritation at stories like Batman: Urban Legends, Cheer and Batman The Adventure Continues has it's roots.

Every time one of these stories comes out, I think (or hope, rather) that this will be the one that remembers and respects the origins of the Jason and the Red Hood, that takes into account the changed sensibilities of comics readers in the 30 years since Jason's death and the subtle, 20 year, retroactive campaign to make him the "bad Robin". The "born bad" trope is played out and literally no one likes the message it implies. That some kids are just bad eggs and there's nothing parents or the adults around them can do. Especially when it's played as the kid's fault. If Jason's time as Robin is going to be characterized by anger, then it should be rooted in anger at the social injustices he witnessed as he grew up in an impoverished, crime-ridden, area and the horrors he faced raising himself when every day was a battle for survival. There are topical, meaningful, stories to tell with that backdrop.

But those are never the stories we get.

⚠⚠ Spoilers for Batman: Urban Legends, Cheer ⚠⚠

I'm particularly disappointed in Urban Legends because for the first issue, it looked like that was the kind of story we were going to get. I was put off by the first flashback of Jason being mesmerized by Bruce's guns, and I got that feeling in my gut that it was a bad sign. Jason depicted as impatient and overconfident and the scene with the guns is heavy-handed foreshadowing that got my spidey-sense tingling. I had a inkling then (in the first three pages) of how this story was going to play out, but it was early and I could still see many narrative paths that could lead to a satisfying story. My concerns were soothed somewhat and the little flame of my hope fanned, with the flashback of Alfred scolding Bruce, with Barbara's concern for Jason. A bit of worry returned with the way Jason ruthlessly pursued an addict who didn't appear to be a dealer and with the ending of the issue. The stuff with the addict sat wrong with me but the ending was tempered some by how despicable Tyler's dad was written. The scene was clearly set so that the reader could sympathize with Jason's decision and the scene with the addict could be brushed aside as a side-effect of comics over-the-top need for constant action, so I still held hope.

Issue 2 made me uncomfortable and it's where my hope starts to take a backseat to my expectations. I can dismiss Jason's self-deprecating internal monologue as unreliable narration, except that the flashback reinforces his thought process to explicitly show that it's not unreliable narration, and should be taken at face value. Jason faces physical abuse at the hands of his mother's drug dealer and when the flashback continues later, Jason kills the drug dealer. To be clear, this is a pre-Bruce Jason. His mom is still alive. He's like... 10. He kills this guy for shoving his head into a wall and implying Jason's mother paid for her drugs with sex. This is a scene that serves a single purpose. To show that Jason has always been prone to violence.

In the spirit of full disclosure, there is the small chance the drug dealer might not be dead. But the story obviously wants the reader to think he is, and it hasn't done anything to change that yet.

Starlin already did this story with The Diplomat’s Son in 1988 and he did it infinitely better. AND that’s still technically canon. So now I’m supposed to believe that Jason lost his cool bad enough to kill two douche bags before his sweet 16? Like it’s totally normal for abused kids raised in poverty, who’ve led hard and heartbreaking lives to just... haul off and kill people? That’s bullshit, and when taken with the Jason in the third issue, who is little more than an idiot thug, this story is really doubling down on some fucked up stereotypes.

Which brings us to the most recent issue. I went into this installment with very low expectations. I thought this story was going to be about Jason, through this experience with Tyler, a young boy with a similar background to Jason's, coming to the realization that Bruce's way is the best way and that Bruce did his best by Jason.

That would be annoying (in no small part because it takes increasingly absurd levels of plot armor to keep Bruce's no kill rule relevant, let alone irrefutably right). But I can probably live with that, if only because maybe if Jason officially falls back into line with the Bats crusade, maybe I'll get stories that treat him with respect, stories that don't relegate him to comic relief, dumb brute, or a background body with no lines in a story about the Joker burning Gotham (like Jason would just fucking stand there quietly for that).

And that may still be where the story is going, Jason realizing Bruce is right.

But holy shit do I not have the right words to describe how fucking insulting and gross issue three is.

From start to finish--including the flashback--Jason is written as cruel and fucking stupid. Like straight up dumb.

The entire issue is Bruce explaining the fucking basics to Jason like it's his first day. And Jason flies off the fucking handle and terrorizes a doctor he knows isn't a part of making the Cheerdrops, beats the shit out of some random addicts, and finally, when he can't accomplish anything on his own because he's a dumb brute he calls Barbara for help and rushes in with no information where he's promptly incapacitated and must now wait to be rescued by Batman.

This panel is the least of the issues sins but I can’t screenshot the entire story but it’s representative of the tone for the whole issue (and retroactively tainted the prior two issues).

This is beyond insulting. The only conclusions Jason comes to in this issue are the ones Bruce leads him to by talking to him like he can’t make the simplest connections. And like... in this story Jason can’t make the simplest connections.

This (and the Jason throughout the entirety of this issue) is a far cry from the Jason we fell in love with in Under the Red Hood, who was competent and strategic and intelligent enough to seize control of Gotham’s underworld from Black Mask (who’s no fucking slouch, he’s the first and only person to unify organized crime in Gotham) AND elude and manipulate Bruce until the time and place of his choosing.

This is a far cry from even the Red Hood and the Outlaws Jason who is competent enough to fight the League of Shadows and Ra’s al Ghul (among very dangerous and skilled others) and smart enough to create antidotes for mind control nanotech viruses.

As he should be, by the way. Jason Todd is one of the best, most comprehensively trained fighters in DC’s stable of non powered vigilantes. He’s not irrational or hot headed. He’s pragmatic, tactically minded, and patient. He’s a detective. Right now. Has been since he was 12. Bruce doesn’t have to make him one because he already is. 

Jason is not a stupid thug who uses his fists because his brain doesn’t work. And I can’t tell you how so very exhausted I am by this narrative. 

This is actually the most egregious example of Jason’s skills and intelligence being not just undermined but dismissed entirely. Even Morrison’s Jason had some degree of competency. 

The one, single redeeming factor of this story is the art. It’s beautiful. And Marcus To is a godsend he seems to be one of only a couple of artists who remember that Jason was a child when he was Robin and I’m literally only buying this book because of him. 

Anyway, I’m sorry. I didn’t want that to come out so... um... passionately lol. I’m just very very tired. My intention with this isn’t to ruin it for you, if you like it, that’s fine. 

But this issue shot this story to the top of my "Vehemently Despise” list. 1) Batman: Urban Legends (Cheer), 2) Battle for the Cowl/Morrison’s Batman and Robin, 3) Batman The Adventure Continues.

I hope the next issues somehow salvage this dumpster fire. But I’m not expecting it.

(Damnit. That sounded harsh again. To reiterate, I’m not trying to judge anyone who enjoys it, I just personally hate it and you asked me why lol 😅)

[strangenessbooks]

The Bat-Man Recap #7, Part 2

In Part 1, I talked about the origins of Batman where his parents die in a mugging. Something that could be fall anyone.

Now for a Death Ray.

Of course, Bruce Wayne is there to help and to save the day...next time.

We also get a glimpse of the "Batcave" and the Batmobile has had silver things added to it. Neither of these have been referred to as this and the Batcave is just a secret lab but exciting times. Don't worry the costume is still a chest.

I guess this is the first comic to imply Batman has a brain. He's a scientist now. The last comic did not give that vibe. He seemed to solving crimes by vibes alone. Okay, that's too harsh, last issue had no thoughts, head emptiness to it. We love a himbo. Not so much when he's kidnapping random women.

One of those silver things is probably a bat as a head ornament. If you think that's too much, wait till you see what's he done to the Batplane.

I don't why I haven't mentioned this yet that the ropes Bruce is using are Silk Ropes.

This is still a terrible method of spying. Very bad on the joins.

Our bad guy is, Karl/Carl Kruger whose name changes spelling. It's possible two people lettered this comic and it wasn't properly credited but Bob Kane could have just forgotten the spelling that was being used.

He thinks he Napoleon so I guess it doesn't matter. This is first villain whose clearly mentally ill. Before we've had some, who are probably mentally ill. Reminds me that guy who thinks he's Zeus. Could be connected, but their names are different.

A problem with these early comics, that often feels like that they are panels missing. Sometimes they feel like they've been rushed out of the draft stage. It could be that it's an early medium still and the balances haven't been worked out. A lot is implied or left in the imagination of the reader, even in modern comics. Sometimes it's not clear exactly how Batman ended up tied up. They were probably given a number of pages to fill Vs now where Batman has a full issue to tell a story. These are stories are getting longer and Batman will soon get a full comic book to himself.

Now we've had that seriously moments, look what he's done to the Batplane.

It has a Bat face. It's possible that's always been there but it's the first time it's clearly seen. Now that does make it stand out a lot, that's definitely Batman. Part of his deal is spying and tailing people, so how does he disguises that?

I've talked about the limitation of early comics, you should give them the benefit of doubt, but I think it's funner to imagine that's the only cloud in the sky. Just an alarming black cloud, that makes it look like something is on fire.

Now that groofness is over. Let's talk about Batman's killing spree.

These men are mass killers and they plan to do it again. He was blowing up their death ray. They have tried to kill Batman twice by the end of the comic. He get's shot again, we see him shirtless again. But he wears a bulletproof vest that still makes him bleed. Probably so can have this fake out.

Yay, first fake death. Does it count as murder if you left them to be killed by the bad guy who was gonna kill you and you put him in your costume? This is the first time when a Batsuit is fully destroyed, also.

Second Fake Death. Goodbye, Batplane.

Batman does get his third confirmed kill. Comics have always been weird when it comes to Death, unless you see a body, they could come back, so he has probably killed more people that weren't confirmed (and we're not including supernational creatures into this count). He also might have choked a guy to death with a rope but it was also a fire that definitely off him. He's brewed up or destroyed things where people would have definitely been causalities. That blimp blowing up above a city would realistically hurt "innocent lives". We could argue that morally it's fine because they are "villains" who would have killed more people. In this one, he only kills/explodes people who were part of a murder cult.

All this killing is only notable because of how anti-killing Batman becomes. This is just what was the norm for this time is. It's very similar to other media's morality. Batman was inspired from a lot of pulp novels. This is a month after WW2 started, it could have even been written before the War started and the USA won't be touched for a while.

Now, we know that killing someone even in the line of duty would take an emotional toll on someone. It's not as glamorised. It's disturbing that Bruce is smoking a pipe while listening about how they dragged a body out of the plane he crashed like it's nothing. A modern Batman would have tried to drag him out of the plane and it would be a failure that he didn't get him out.

It would be interesting to rewrite these stories with modern Batman's morals, at the same time. A few Elseworld stories, do retell these stories but different time periods (the 1980s, Gotham by Gaslight is clearly inspired by this issue specifically).

I'm reading too deep into this. This is actually the level of gunning down a police helicopter in Grand Theft Auto. It's not an actual person, it's not even a character you're meant to connect to on a deeper level than an obstacle for Batman to overcome to save the day.

Join us next time where apparently we're going back to Paris.