#''but trans men sometimes pass'' & that suddenly makes them cis. got it

[drdemonprince]

this will sound like one of those "let men be masculine" level niche internet community brained posts, but i honestly really was embarrassed of how much i like drag for a while. in the circles that i run in, liking drag too much is seen as pretty cringey and for wealthy cis gays. like everybody knows a few cool avante garde local performers that they fuck with who run queer dance parties that are inclusive and the like, but very few people that i know will just go to a drag show at an entertainment or social engagement for their own sake. it's almost seen as a tourist thing, a normie gay thing.

but its one of the few spaces where i can actually recognize a lot of feminine men and nonbinary man-thing-girly-freaks like of the particular type that i am. leather bars are so masc and buff and im often invisible. bear bars are really nice and i do feel welcome there! but people are only feminine in their mannerisms, not presentation very often. the more explicitly gender inclusive trans/queer spaces cater to more of a wlw and adjacent crowd whose relationships to masculinity and femininity are different from mine. circuit gay bars are obviously terrible.

drag is nice. there's guys with weird little haircuts and long earrings who aren't buff and are swishy and dress interestingly but are a little uncomfortable as their regular selves and have to don alternate personas in order to be outgoing. and i even like that it's okay to be bitchy and insulting sometimes in drag world, like sometimes that is just your genuine feedback on the work someone has done and it's not the end of the world. there's lot of open conflict in the drag world that actually works out pretty alright.

it's a local nightlife scene like all the rest, its got its theater kid bullshit and egos and superficiality out the ass and so many people are trying to be famous or make money, but even to this day i forget that i can just be a really weird feminine guy until i'm around some of them and watching them prance about. i worry about how i look or am being read and then even just watching a fucking drag race episode i'll see like 9 different guys who are so fucking androgynous with their weird assymetrical self cut haircuts that they pass less than i do and they're cis men. they have bodies or faces like i do. and in the local scene it's obviously even better because you're looking at real life people. maybe i should be over it by now but im not, i need to see weird little awkward feminine guys with funny outfits playing dress up and crying and fighting with one another because they never got over their last picked in gym class baggage. its meeee i relateee. i even like that its a little toxic! we've got some issues out here, let's joke with them and make a character of them instead of pretending to be nice!!

i tend to be pretty skeptical of "representation matters!" type shit but part of that is probably because i never really feel represented. i know, boo hoo, thin white man doesnt feel depicted on screen, sounds very silly. but then i see kade gottmik on drag race and i swell with emotion and suddenly feel like who i am is POSSIBLE in this world and i realize that even with all my privileges i am starved for representation and that it does benefit you to have it. theres trans guys on screen but thats not close enough to ping that ooh!!! ahh!!! i can love myself!! radar for me. it has to be a very particular kinda person. matt bernstein makes me feel similarly

[nothorses]

I don't know if anyone else has experienced this, and I worry about saying this off anon but I want to actually, be a face as I do. When I came out I knew I wasn't cis, and I was lucky enough to have the support of two wonderful trans partners, but I had an extremely hard time finding my place in the trans community. I am pro MOGAI and new, hyperspecific terms because I know how important it can be to want to put a name, a flag, and individual pride to your identity. 1/?

I switched my own terms quite a lot, from demigirl to genderfae to genderflux to where I am now, genderfluid. But I remember there was a moment, because I was so sure I was only female aligned, where I thought for just a moment that I might be a boy, and I was terrified, I didnt want to be a boy, I didnt want to be "that trans." Like every trans person, I struggled with internalized transphobia, not feeling valid or true enough in my identity, 2/15

But that dreadful feeling of being Scared of being a boy is something I think about a lot, and something I think is truly telling. I'll admit I primarily (only) use tumblr because social media honestly isnt my thing, so I can only speak to what I've seen here, but I remember seeing so little about trans men, other than the occasional mention in broad positivity posts, the even rarer info about binding or passing, but I did see how much people hated men. 3/15

It was always implied to be about cis men, I've been spared the more modern issues regarding overt hatred of trans men, but I saw the constant anger and vitriol and genuine hatred for men. And I realize now I wasnt just scared of being "too trans" I was scared of being hated. So I made myself nonthreatening, I called myself a boy, I performed femininity to an even higher, though subversive standard, because I was still so scared of being a man. The enemy. The oppressor. 4/15

It took many more months to dare say I wanted to call myself a man, and even then I was scared, in the comfort and safety of my girlfriend's company. I felt dirty saying it, and I still do. I always only dare to refer to myself as a trans man, instead of just as a man. And I do want to sidetrack for a moment and say my relationship to gender, as a genderfluid person, is admittedly more complex than just when I feel this way, in other ways people are also particularly hateful towards, 5/15

But even with those other facets, and my fear of being open in them, pale in comparison to my relationship with masculinity. Because when I did come out and admit to myself that sometimes, I am not a woman, or nonbinary, I am a man, I became more aware of things. I exited wonderland, so to say. Suddenly I became so much more aware of how much people simply did not care about me or people like me, and especially not our problems or concerns. 6/15

I saw how invisible I was, and worse than that, I saw a very subtle malice. The only mention of trans men were in those broad positivity posts including everyone under the trans umbrella, or in the rare case something was positive exclusively for trans men, it was always reblogged with "dont forget trans women/enby people" tacked on, I remember once I looked in the trans tag and counted how many posts it took to find one exclusively about trans men that didnt mention binding 7/15

I got into the forties. Because on other posts, I would see people make passive aggressive remarks about how "trans men are talked about too much" or "there's all these resources for trans men, what about trans women" and I wanted to know on what earth the people who said that were living on, because the only, and I mean the only thing people tend to talk about in regards to trans men is how to safely bind, and rarely, the effects of HRT. 8/15

This happened a while ago, but I remember seeing a number of posts on my dash about how much representation trans men receive. I believe there was a panel about trans people, where a majority of the panelists were trans men, and trans women were less represented than them. They encouraged people to complain, said we received too much attention, and pointed at mythical trans male rep in media that in reality, I could count on one hand. I remember being so angry and passionate about it 9/15

Now im honestly just tired. I dont feel accepted by the trans community, and even the trans male community is iffy (I fit in amongst mogai people most, but I cant deny trumeds are particularly prevalent, and it wore on me), and it's so tiring to have every post made by trans men for trans men have to be preambled by belittling themselves and downplaying their own suffering. I just want to exist in peace, but I feel like that's too much to ask. 10/15

I've reached a point of exhaustion that I have become entirely apathetic to my own gender, what was once a deeply important aspect of my identity. I feel disconnected from it, and as a consequence from my own body. I don't bother examining it anymore because I can't feel it, as someone who suffers from dissociation, I feel dissociated from it in order to protect myself, something I was once so openly proud about. 11/15

Im scared to try and push for transition, for my own personal reasons, but now on top of those Im terrified of being silenced and belittled and hated for something that should make me happy. I've tried so hard not to feed into the lateral violence and become embittered towards trans women, because that's not fair, but I won't lie and say it hasnt been hard when I have seen more than I ever would've liked be so willing to ignore or outright throw their brothers under the bus 12/15

And of course there are even more who do show their support for their brothers, and for that im thankful, but this invisibility effects how I perceive everything. I feel like I've been pushed back into the closet, I say im trans because I know I'm not cis but I don't even know who I am, what my place is, and I'm scared to explore because I'm scared that who I am will be violently rejected by the people meant to support me. I want to be free to even explore who I am. 13/15

I wish people would listen to my experiences and what I have to say, but in every microaggression every act of ignoring I feel silenced. Trans men are viewed as predatory, just in a different way; trans men are fetishized and have chasers; trans men face higher rates of violence and sexual assault for being trans men; research about transmasc transition is almost nonexistent, and new, better surgeries are not even thought about; transmasc history is erased and silenced. 14/15

I, feel like im rambling at this point, and I'm sorry I've been so longwinded, I just. I want to thank you, for creating a space where I can speak my truth, because before finding your blog I didn't think anyone would care. I feel like I have so much more to say but honestly im scared, and too tired, and have said enough for now. I just want this feeling of loneliness to go away and hopefully I'll find a way to accept myself. Thank you for listening to me, and giving me a platform to speak 15/15

(Edited the numbers for accuracy)

Thank you for trusting me with this, and to other folks: I think this is an important narrative to listen to and share!

[brawla]

What was his childhood like with his brothers and a single mother, and how did he come out to them? Was he well received? How does it affect all his relationships in life, given the time period?

GH okay i can talk in depth about this so its going under a cut. warnin for talk abt dysphoria, blasphemy (only kind of vaguely referred to), vague implications of nonphysical abuse and potential misgendering/transphobia/etc

so like… he was born a fraternal twin which wasnt so shocking to the family dynamic bc there was already a pair of twins But after having a total of 9 kids and One of them being born biologically female you kinda fixate on that yknow? so. elliot was most definitely Pegged to be the odd one out from the start but he kinda never really was. he played in the same way that his brothers played and loved getting dirty and being a general nuisance and he was, in essence, already One Of The Boys by like age 4. i should note also his oldest brother is 10 years older and most of them have like a ½ y age difference

inserting this bit right here to clarify the dog incident happened when he was 6 and four of them were playing in a dry canal n there were wild dogs hiding in the underpass (and up until then hed only known dogs as nice creatures) so he goes to pet em yadda yadda arms and legs get fucked up real bad. forearms are still wicked sensitive and scarred up but his knees recovered merely because he ran. they didnt have money for hospital bills so he was kinda useless for a while though

so anyway. despite her child obviously being a “““tomboy”““ she still attempted to force him into frilly dresses and do his hair all nice and when he was Really young he didnt super care but eventually noticed the difference in how his mom allowed his brothers to behave vs how she allowed him to behave and it upset him??? and granted this was more when he was like 8 or 9 and it was less “elli go play” and more “elli help me with dinner” even though she often didnt include anybody else in that request. so he starts cutting his own hair and disobeying openly and gets kinda mean because of it (thus his inclusion in being a Town Terror with the other brothers) uhh

they fought a Lot as kids bc margaret wasnt the Best at keeping them in line especially when shed get more concerned with sleeping with other men/going out for the nice bc once chase (oldest) was old enough to technically be in charge shed just kinda Leave sometimes an pray they didnt set the house on fire. because of that it was “im trapped in a house with all my brothers lets wrestle and scream until the neighbors call the cops on us because somebody might be dying” but at the end of the day they still had that Sibling Bond that rose above anything else

moving back onto the Trans Narrative: he realizes somethings up mid/end of middle school and hes not sure how to put it into words but he doesnt Feel Good anymore. doesnt like hearing his deadname or being the singular “girl” of the family. his twin, owen, is like, his first Go To for comfort and owen doesnt know either but he doesnt really Care. one time he tries to tell his mom but she waves him off and tells him never to bring it up again and… he Doesnt. goes through his first couple years of high school horrifically depressed and just barely passing year to year if Even passing until the very beginning of junior year he just Stops going. owen and some of the more fraternal of his brothers, when older, are kinda the only thing that keeps him grounded and ultimately he feels Useless ages 16 to 18

spy is his first contact bc he knows his mom who kinda just laments about how useless this kid who used to be so excited to play baseball with his brothers and run around and race freely is all of the sudden, please make him stop. and spys reluctant but also Guilty and has him flown out to nm for various hit and run jobs and elliot doesnt really realize what hes been thrust into at first but it gets to a point where doing Anything (even Crime) feels so good he doesnt care. inducted officially into the team when hes 19 or 20 and also has his name legally changed within that time period (jeremy is his “formal” name his mom insisted upon when he informed her this was a thing that was happening and she couldnt do anything about it, but if addressed by his actual name hed much rather hear elliot except in Official or as previously stated, formal, settings). voila The Scout is born

he technically comes out to the family when hes like 18/19 and already living out of home and he comes back to visit for a gathering where a lot of people are there includin some of his brothers’ dads. and nobody really knows what to do (mom im trans and also stronger than you so dont try any shit) bc most of them are religious and all of the boys were raised christian even if they were just going to church for the sake of going to church. and like… over time they adapt… margaret pulls the whole “this is all my fault my babys going to hell” thing for a while and makes it about her and some of his brothers do the same (william, the second oldest and michael, one of the other twins are the only two who are like “absolutely not youre disowned never speak to me again” and disallow their kids from seeing him EVEN THOUGH his nieces and nephews love him the Most) but eventually they kinda Get It. and dont Agree with it but cant bear to just leave their baby brother behind. so. its like. they fuck up the pronouns a lot but still Vaguely try. he doesnt talk to them a lot and wishes honestly hed never said anything and just moved out and lived stealth (hes stealth in tfi). he sends money home bc despite all his mom did and said to him bc deep down he still cares but. yknow. he avoids them if he can

SORRY THAT GOT LONG onto other tidbits

he never did baseball in school but played recreationally with the boys every time he got the opportunity to but he did run track when he got to eighth grade/high school and was really fantastic at it. hed run and began exercising initially as a way to beat his brothers but his mom makes some off-handed comment about how its good hes finally doing that, he could bear to lose somea that chub, nobody likes a fat girl (hes 12!) and is like Ah. and hes less self conscious about his weight now bc hes accepted the fact most of his weight is muscle and hes naturally curvy partly bc hes pretty and partly bc hes a runner. hes very very secure in himself and his identity even if he cant just tell people hes trans

he probably wouldve continued religiously if he hadnt been told by multiple sources that the “behaviors” he engaged in would upset god and get him banished to hell for life so he stopped going to church when he moved. of course, god only confirming he was his gift to the earth made him (silently) rub it in his familys face and he stopped uhh. believing in what was taught at churches simply bc he was convinced hed met god and proved all of them wrong? anyway

at the age and place he is he tends not to make lasting relationships with many people, at least romantically, because hes positive one of these days hell move to a place people dont know him and hell have had surgery and suddenly fit in with the cis and be able to settle down then. god knows he has the money for it; but for where hes at he tends not to care, not to tell anybody, n probably hasnt uhhh yknow Bonked for several years which is whatever he lives. He Lives. i think thats all i have to say on this IM SO SORRY but. this ask is very important to me

[just-kateblr]

I was tagged by @my-wanton-self

1. What’s your biggest pet peeve? Willful ignorance and people who are purposefully inconsiderate.  (They’re related, I suppose, but can manifest differently.)

2. What one fear would you like to conquer?  Currently, my biggest that I would like to conquer is openly presenting myself as female to the world. 

3. What’s your favourite song lyric and why? There are quite a few it’s hard to pick just one.  The one I’ll go with is from Sweet Jane from the Velvet Underground: Some people they like to go out dancin’/ and other people they have to work. Just watch me now/ and there's even some evil mothers/ Well there gonna tell you that everthing is just dirt/ you know that women never really faint/ and that villians always blink their eyes/ that children are the only ones who blush/and that life is just to die/ But anyone who ever had a heart/ they wouldn't turn around and break it/ and anyone who ever played a part / They wouldn't turn around and hate it.  Why do I like it?  I think it kind of speaks for itself.

4. If you could shop at one store for free, which would it be?  I would have to flip a coin between Nordstrom or Costco.

5. Which language would you like to speak fluently? Spanish.

6. What secret super power would you like to have, and why? Shapeshifting. You could get into just about anywhere.

7. Would you like to be famous and what would you like to be known for? I have no desire to be famous.

8. What was the worst haircut you ever had? A long time ago, I moved to Northern Virginia and needed a haircut.  I went to a barbershop that apparently specialized in military cuts and while I just asked for a trim, he got out clippers and after the first pass, I knew I was in trouble. I ended up with something pretty close to a high and tight.  It was awful. 

9. What are the most important qualities in friends? Honesty, intelligence, the willingness to share thoughts and opinions, good sense of humor, empathy, and a desire to make things better somehow.  I love having a common understanding and, at the same time, being able to challenge and be challenged.

10. What’s the most significant lesson you’ve learned in life so far?  People’s needs will not always match your own; it’s what they do at that point that is important.  Also, sometimes life is shitty, but it generally improves eventually.  Maybe not in the way you thought, but you’ll find that it’s no longer shitty.  (Yes, I know, that’s technically two. I’m lousy at following the rules.)

11. What makes you laugh the hardest? My daughters. They’re just plain funny.

12. What’s your proudest accomplishment? That’s a hard one because I tend not to look back too much. Plus, much of what I’ve accomplished has also been because other people have played along, so I can’t take full credit.

13. If you could have any view out the window of your room, which would it be?  The ocean. I grew up near the water and am now in the middle of the US.  I would love to be near a large body of water.  

14. If you could eat dinner with one celebrity, who would it be, and why? I can’t say that he’s a celebrity, but Barack Obama is certainly famous and would be an amazing dinner companion.  I’d probably want to have a ranging conversation about policy, his life, and experiences as President.  Plus, for bonus points, I’d try to get him to open up and vent about how he really feels about Trump.

15. If you could do something dangerous just once with no risk, what would you do?  I can’t think of much, I’ve already done a number of things that people consider dangerous.  I think removing the fear of danger would take away the adrenaline and most of the fun.

16. What’s your all-time favourite music video? Undercover of the Night by The Rolling Stones. It’s a great video; almost like a short film.

17. Which three words would you use to describe yourself? Smart, funny, empathetic.

18. What’s the first thing you’d do if you suddenly changed into the opposite sex? As a trans woman, I’m going to write my own rules here.  I am a woman, but if I suddenly had the body of a cis woman, I’d explore my tits and bits, then masturbate like there was no tomorrow. 

19. What’s your favourite website, and why?  I have eclectic tastes and moods, so it varies by the minute and the hour.  I love all of the information and places that I can go with the internet. 

20. If you got a tattoo, what would you get and where would you put it? I cannot think of one thing I would want on my skin forever.  If I had to choose, I might either get “Be Here Now” in a nice font on my wrist OR a butterfly on my shoulder for the symbolism. 

21. When you’re down, what do you do to feel better? I try not to wallow too long and look to do something to change the channel. That usually involves moving my body in some way or another.  I also reach out to dear friends for conversation and engagement.

22. If you could go on tour with a band for a month, who would it be, and why? Not my thing.

23. What’s you favourite dessert? I have a weakness for cannolis. Good ones, though.  The kind where the outside is freshly baked and then filled immediately before serving, so you have the mix of the crunch and the softness.  Divine! 

24. What one thing would you want to do most if you had all the money in the world? Ensure that money was not a barrier to anyone seeking further education.

25. Who’s the least obvious person you’d like to kiss? Least obvious? Maybe Sam Rockwell. There is something about him that I find strangely sexy. 

26. Would you join in at a topless beach? At this point, if I had a nice set of boobs, I would happily share them at a topless beach.

27. Where would you most like to travel?  I have too many choices to list here.  I would travel almost incessantly if I could.  I’ve not yet been to South America, Africa, or Antarctica, so those would be on the top of my list.  

28. What would you eat for your ultimate birthday dinner?  I tend to like food that is good and fresh.  I’d start with a fresh salad, with bleu cheese and bacon.  Grilled filet mignon. Very fresh corn on the cob.  Freshly baked bread with a nice crunchy crust.  Roasted brussel sprouts.  Good cannoli for dessert.

29. What was your most embarrassing moment? Eh, if you really want to know, hit me up in chat. It’s a bit of a story that involves Chinese food and getting sick in a work colleague’s hotel room.  It was mortifying when it happened, but it’s pretty darned funny.

30. What historical sporting event would you like to witness? In person, I’d love to the 1999 Men’s NCAA Basketball Championship.  My alma mater, the University of Connecticut, was the underdog and upset heavily favored Duke for their first national championship.  It was great to watch on TV, but it would be amazing to see in person. 

31. Which song evokes the strongest memories for you? Missing You - John Waite

32. What’s the best birthday celebration you can imagine? I don’t ever want a huge celebration, I’d love to have a bunch of close friends around where we can talk, drink, eat, laugh, and generally just enjoy everyone’s company.

33. What’s your favourite ethnic food? Mexican.

34. Do you have any habits you’d like to give up?  Procrastination.

35. What would you save first if your house caught on fire? Children, spouse, then pets.

36. Who would you trade places with for one month?  I’m not picky, and this might sound shallow, but I’d trade places with an able bodied cis woman who is considered above average in appearance. In other words, I’d love to see what it was like to live as an unequivocally gorgeous woman. 

37. What’s the story behind your first name? I had the joy of being able to select one for myself, which ended up being harder than I thought.  I like what I landed on, though.

38. What’s been the biggest obstacle in your life so far?  I don’t like the word obstacle.  I take it to mean a barrier that blocks things.  While I have had plenty of challenges, I try to not let those things block me.  My hope is to always move forward, even if it is slowly. No question, my biggest challenge is being trans. 

39. Have you ever stolen something? What was it? Why did you steal it? Ugh, yes.  I was traveling in Australia some years ago and I noticed a wallet sitting on some phone books at the post office. I looked inside and there was a couple hundred dollars in it.  I left it sitting there and went to make my call, but kept my eye on it.  Someone else from the hostel I was staying in walked in, saw the wallet, and then we locked eyes.  I indicated that I didn’t know whose it was and he reached in an pulled out the cash.  I figured, if it was going to be stolen, I was going to benefit from it (I was low on cash at the time).  We walked around the corner, he split the money with me and we went our separate ways.  I still regret doing this and wish that I had picked up the wallet when I first saw it and turned it in.

40. To you, what’s the secret to happiness? I believe happiness is really just enjoying life’s simple and pleasurable moments.  We’ve got so much that goes on that has peaks and valleys of emotion and it is important to feel those, for the good and the bad.  It is the small moments that are the glue to our lives, though.  A laugh with a friend.  Warm sunshine on your skin on a cool day.  The smell of salt air.  To me, it’s enjoying those moments that are what make for happiness and joy.

Please do not feel compelled to do this, but I’m going to tag a few people whom I would love to see their responses.  I tag @mymindisdrawinga, @annacaffeina, @perfectlyscrumptious, @perfectlywhelmed, @visionaria, @tumbleweedsinmyvagina, @ptero-bites, @misslondoncallin, @vampysquid, and I started thinking this list was getting long, so I stopped, but please feel free to respond away if you are taken with the idea.

[noonstate]

under a cut again because i cannot keep things short to save my life, apologies in advance.

this was super off the cuff originally just because i didn’t / don’t want to delete my previous posts on the topic but wanted to expand my current thoughts, so the original post ( and this reply ) are going to be unfortunately sloppy in some ways. i agree 100% with your main thought / first paragraph, though.

to clarify / respond to other stuff:

first / men + patriarchy ) i do agree that men can and do contribute to the patriarchy but the point i was more trying to make is that men are often given a kind of super-agency in discussions about patriarchy, as if all that needs to happen for it to fall away is for a large enough handful of men to suddenly decide not to be patriarchal.

i am rereading ‘the will to change’ for the first time since i read it in uni like three (oh god maybe more) years ago now so that’s been informing a lot of my thoughts on the matter, and she talks at length about how mothers + women are equally complicit in the messaging that is passed on to boys / male children, sometimes even moreso in the case of single mothers. there is no patriarchy cabal but its an entrenched system and i think for feminism to be effective, or even viable, we need men to join. part of that is getting men to do feminist thinking and learning about the issues, but another thing is to stop treating them as inherently the enemy.

the thing of it is, fighting the big fight is hard, and tough, and your average joe-blow on the street might not realise that he can or should. i’m not saying you said this, but i have seen some people treat every individual man as a sort of mini-patriarchy all his own making, which again i think gives men too much credit. it’s extremely easy to be blind to your own biases.

i’m white, and i have to work at being anti-racist, not because i was raised by racists (i got lucky there) but because there are some things so in-built at a social level by people for hundreds of years that until i stop and think “wait this doesn’t have to be this way” and look at my own thoughts and actions in a new light. and it's hard to do that! sometimes i feel shitty about stuff i said as a tween or whathaveyou, but that's growth. but i also think it's easier to not realise you should be trying to grow if you've been sort of insulated from having to think about it, which many men def have been insulated from.

second / privilege ) this may be strictly a “i wrote quickly and didn’t frame things will” ism because again i absolutely agree with what you’ve said here. to sort of break down what i was trying to get across, let’s imagine the subject that the capitalist white supremacist patriarchy was built for: a white, cis, het, able-bodied, successful man. this society sees this as the default kind of person. anyone who isn’t, is told to hold themselves to the standard of this default, and punished for failing. we see this with the construction of whiteness in north america, a way to legalise the default and punish those who don’t fall within it. i think it also could be a framing thing, like the taller glass looking more full than the shorter glass type deal. whether you think about a privilege as rising you up above, or as a marginalisation as pulling you down. i suppose it’s active vs passive, right. and i’m not saying there aren’t people who do actively weaponise and use their privilege but i think the more insidious thing is that it can and often is this like, passive thing, which is why it’s important to self-examine. but honestly i might have just phrased it badly (probably why i failed out of uni lol)

third / anti-trans bills ) i didn’t mention trans girls in sports which really was just an oversight, but as i’ve seen it, any bills targeting trans healthcare have been fueled by a moral panic of the irreversible damage variety. i think i’ve heard ‘castration’ as a talking point once or twice, mostly tho connected to whole ‘the puberty blocker drug is also used for chemical castration’ thing, but mostly the healthcare bills afaik have been about stopping young “girls” from cutting off their breasts, getting a hysterectomy, etc. this i’m taking mostly from the talking points used by the right-wing lawmakers and pundits in america and the kiera bell verdict in the uk, so i could be missing smth here! i’m canadian so my knowledge of both us + uk law is mostly based off of what i hear / see in the news.

but yes, the sports bills / bathroom bills / anti-drag bills fall in line with the violence used against trans women, whereas the healthcare ones fall more in line with the paternalism used against trans men, at least as i’ve seen so far. it’s a harder sell for sexists to say “oh my god they’re cutting your son’s precious balls off !!!!!” than it is for them to fear-monger about Young Girls, i guess, whereas equally young trans girls in sports are…… super dangerous to their fellow girls? and the sports genital inspection thing are their own kettle of fish, just like. extremely fucked.

again, this reply is unedited but i just wanted to give some clarity? perhaps. hoping this doesn't come off as aggro, i really do think you made good points and more or less i don't disagree with any of it.

also you're 100% more than welcome to im me if you feel i didn't get or misrepresented anything in this reply.

ive spoken about transandrophobia before on here and while i don’t disagree more or less with what ive said i think perhaps there is an issue with the word itself. transmisogyny, much like misogynoir, is less about one + one and more about a blended kind of discrimination that happens alongside others. transandrophobia isn’t exactly that, imo, and i think there’s a decent semantic problem at the heart of a lot of denial / conflict about it. i’ve constructed a kind of numbered list of thoughts:

one. “there is no systemic androphobia / misandry, so there can’t be a unique intersection of transphobia and misandry that constitutes something like a transmisogyny”.

i have mixed feelings about this. there are many ways that men are discriminated against in society. to me, understanding the white supremacist capitalist patriarchy as a pyramid scheme of sorts helps; inherently, those benefitting the most will be the smallest group, and it’s best to keep everyone one tier below you infighting to make them easier to control.

looking at the works of bell hooks and emi koyama, i think that men can act and behave in patriarchal ways, in ways that benefit systemic oppression and violence against women, but i think that thinking of them each individually as agents of the patriarchy gives them, frankly, too much power in a system. your average sexist dude catcalling you on the street is acting out a learned, shitty, behavior, but he’s not an ‘agent’ of anything; he’s another pawn in the same fucked system. think of the poor racist who decries immigrants ‘taking our jobs’; he’s likely to have more in common with the immigrants he’s mad at than the politicians who’ve told him to be mad at the immigrants.

male privilege is another thing; i don’t know that thinking of people as having or holding male privilege is helpful. i think privilege is more of a lack of a thing than a thing itself. do trans men who pass significantly well gain some status? yes. do trans women who are boymoders / not out already have some status? yes. but i don’t think that’s something they are doing so much as it is something that others are assuming about them.

and, as i said above: it’s a pyramid scheme. in a white supremacist society, men of colour are not advantaged over white men, and often not even over white women. we’ve seen this historically, with lynchings, and recently, with ‘karen’s calling the police over seeing a black man in their neighbourhood. white women can and do pose a significant threat to black men through their use of state violence, and their existence as a resource the state wants to protect (sometimes, at least).

so is it all predestined? no, obviously not. you can and should fight against the culture if it is harmful. and for men, the thing is, they are not told or easily shown that the system is harming them as much or more than it benefits them. there are less obvious threads to pull at to start the unravelling of an internalised worldview for people closer to the top of that pyramid. but it’s work many of them don’t do, to their own detriment as much as to the detriment of everyone else around them, especially women and gender minorities.

two. “what you’re experiencing is just transphobia”

i think we can acknowledge that transphobia towards (for simplification’s sake) trans men and trans women. cultural transphobia, as it exists right now, is fairly gendered. when we talk about trans women, we talk about adults, we talk about predation, we talk about perversion. when we talk about trans men, we actually talk about trans boys, we talk about girls, we talk about a ‘trans cult’ or ‘trans ideology’, we talk about hysterectomies at twelve, top surgery at six, hormone blockers at three.

the goal of current cultural transphobia is protecting trans men from trans women, essentially. in their genocide handbook of “enemy must be weak and also strong” they’ve decided trans men are weak, and trans women are strong. note that this itself falls in with the sexist tropes the transphobia crowd often say they’re against.

transphobia, historically, has been about trans women, in the same way that homophobia, historically, was about gay men. not in terms of everything, but in terms of the big cultural boogeymen. sure there were and have been scare campaigns about lesbians and trans men, but generally, the desires of “girls” (counting trans men here for now, sorry guys) were seen as frivolous, unreal. i mean as of what, 2019? we had noted freak ray blanchard theorising about if women even have a sexuality. what society saw as dangerous, though, were men and trans women (who they also saw as men, when it suited them to).

so really, trans men had some catching up to do, in terms of public fear-mongering. and we did! abigail shrier and j.k. rowling both targeted trans men far more squarely than they targeted trans women.

irreversible damage contains a few anecdotes about trans women (iirc, one about a bra store assistant being trans and how ‘dangerous’ it would have been to let her fit a bra on a child, and another about a stealth trans woman who was mad that more visibility was making people start to clock her in the street).

terf wars mentions the ‘lesbians are being called transphobic for not dating trans women with penises’ talking point, and the fear of ‘men entering women’s dressing rooms’. but the part that jk focuses on for a good chunk, the part she claims is ‘intensely personal’, is the idea that if she had come about, she might have been transed! to be fair and balanced, jk rowling also spends some time on her fears about sexual assault from trans women, though not phrased exactly like that. so perhaps she’s more broadly transphobic.

but the latest rounds of libs of tiktok / fox news / matt walsh / etc etc etc fueled transphobia have been aggressively targeting trans men, even if they won’t say that. it’s always ‘children’, or ‘girls’. at the same time that people are reacting with anger and violence towards trans women (and drag queens, though tbf cis transphobes either don’t know the difference or don’t care), people are calling in bomb threats to children’s hospitals and passing anti-trans healthcare bills with the explicit target of stopping young trans boys from accessing trans affirming healthcare. they mention castration briefly, occasionally, but the real target is stopping “girls” from mutilating their bodies.

my point in all of this is: there should be a way to talk about this, about this specific thing, without getting shouted down because of the ‘bad word’ you’re using. bills targeting drag or crossdressing in public are about trans women. bills targeting healthcare are about trans men.

the tl;dr here is that transphobia against trans men and trans women are different. they manifest differently, they are acted out differently, they exist for different reasons. they have different outcomes. but transphobia is a general term, and it would be nice, sometimes, to be able to talk about transphobia against trans men specifically. because there are things that happen or are targeted at them that don’t happen / aren’t targeted at trans women. is that word transandrophobia? idk.

three: “the guy who coined transandrophobia was A Bad One”

this i’ll cover extremely briefly. we’ve had a wave of posts recently saying ‘wow you bullied a random trans woman off the internet for having kinks you don’t like, did you do it? did you save us all?’. these are good posts. however, i think the ‘you can’t use transandrophobia because the guy who coined it has a kink i don’t like’ is uh. perhaps the worst argument among all possible arguments, for the same reason.

i’m old enough to be of the ‘don’t like don’t read’ generation, so uh. that’s what i do. if i follow someone who has a kink i don’t like, i just block those posts / tags. simple. or maybe i even unfollow. but doing a callout because ‘this person has problematic kinks’ is, i think, a bit cringe.

four: “but if we don’t call it x, what do we call it?”

i don’t know. i don’t have a good answer here. generally, i’m someone against using ‘assigned at birth’ or ‘tme’ language because typically i feel those things just serve as another way to misgender people. not that it’s always this way, but i’ve been on tumblr long enough to see people typically just use AFAB and TME to mean FEMALE, in bold bright pink sparkly font.

in some ways, maybe it’s the same issue with “women and femmes / women and nonbinary people” type language. for those things i think being able to self-select into those spaces and conversations is the best, so “people who menstruate” or “people who experience misogyny”, and you get to decide if that counts. but. idk, it’s not very snappy.

“transphobia against trans men” also doesn’t apply evenly, though maybe it never will. there are trans people who are stealth, who are out, who are closeted, girl/boymoders, and on and on. trans people who are ‘fully’ medically transitioned to a binary gender can and do have very different experiences, internally and in the world, to trans people who are nonbinary or don’t / can’t medically transition, or go stealth.

so. idk. i think we can and should have these conversations and others, under the umbrellas that transphobia and cissexism represent. but i also think that generally people talking about transandrophobia or exorsexism are doing so from a genuine place of “i have an issue and i want to talk about it”, and unfortunately i have seen far more people turn off their empathy after seeing A Word about it, in a way they maybe wouldn’t have if the conversation was phrased differently.

transphobia hurts us all. bills targeting healthcare hurt trans women and girls, just as much as they hurt trans men and boys. hell, the bathroom panic around trans women regularly targets cis women. working together is in all of our best interests, esp now.

[phoenixfire-thewizardgoddess]

In the way you said it

Whenever there’s representation In a manner that can be called queer Your tone and comments turn so nasty Your mouth curls up into a sneer It’s in the tone of your voice as you watch it The characters just interact You don’t openly say what you think But empathy for them you lack.

You openly mock certain groupings Try to engage me as well But it’s not funny the stereotyping Your unsaid sentences manage to tell.

Yes two guys on tv had some pet names But so do the straight couples too Exactly what part of their relationship Is considered taboo to you?

We stopped watching more than one show Because of the relationships within Now forgive me, but we’re not religious So you can’t possibly see it as sin In fact when the words you don’t say The laughter that openly rings About two girls in love or a transperson Are the reason no one tells you things.

According to Mulan its not genitals That define if you are a man It’s got more to do with the moon and storms Than what’s inside of your pants.

In the same vein a woman can be Anything she should so choose But neither or both, intermittently Are an identity, regardless of your views.

The person you like, love or lust after Can be any gender at all It’s really up to the individual involved To make that judgement call.

No they don’t advocate child-abuse Nor what the media will say But two legal adults consenting To be together will not ruin your day.

It’s odd to hear the hatred inspired And experience the lack of empathy felt Towards two or more characters in media Dealing with circumstances dealt.

What’s the difference between the relationships If they are straight or something else? The shows all deal with their complex situations And give sappy scenes designed to make you melt.

Where’s the empathy lost on the way, When the young woman decides on a wife Over some boring love interest dude to order Who was clearly stifling her life?

When the character realises his friends are attractive In a more than No Homo way Why the sudden disinterest in watching or reading Anything that features ‘a gay’?

The thing is it’s all just labels designed to Try to categorise what differs from the norm To be honest, it’s a tad frustrating Orientation is not as simple as filling out a form.

Some people feel nothing romantic Others for multiple persons at once Some people want to go out on a picnic by a lake Or hold hands with their love over lunch.

They are not all heterosexuals, Nor, to be fair, are they all cis But the reality is what’s it your business To feel that you can judge them for this.

It’s so tiring hearing what you say, Even more in the derision of tone As if, by pretending to not be disgusted You are doing ‘all those people’ a boon.

Well the reality is passive-aggression... Tends to be more the latter For if it lent more towards the former You should hardly consider this a matter.

Representation is important to those Who rarely ever see themselves in stories It covers more than orientations And frankly, The Straights™ are just getting boring.

Can we take another white couple Another comedic romance Where the premise is either believes in love And all the chemistry of a dead plant?

Perhaps it would be nice for once To hear the ‘B’ word on the screen For trans, POC and Disabled to have Their own heroes, that is the dream.

It’s so easy to mock and despise those Whose life and barriers you cannot understand To understand the fight that has led to, Two gay characters being  able to hold hands.

Tut if you must, but it’s happening There are shows in the world just for those Whose existences and viewpoints are usually marginalised The age of Baby Boomer draws to a close.

In this society different is frightening Labelled as wrong or obscene How can the haters be so sanctimonious Considering their hands are not clean?

The conservatives voted in a man who Who pays people to kiss his posterior But even compared to his childish ilk Your negative commentary comes across as inferior.

So you don’t like to see two people kissing,  Unless it’s a woman and man, Somehow the merest things are sexualised, When you view two women holding hands.

If a man calls his partner babe, Sweetiepie, Darl or Megatron, The reality is, what is it to you, Take a look at your flaws, reflect, move on.

You don’t want to see it in public, And you question their ability to work in certain occupations Many don’t want to have them near their homes And actively exclude their ‘wrong’ neighbours.

How will that look on your final report, Before the great lord almighty? You know, the guy you always tote out, To sanctimoniously condescend ‘righteously’.

All people are humans created equal It is the society you uphold that picks and chooses Who meets the questionable standards Or normality, and decides based on birth, who loses.

You claim that tolerance is key when, Dealing with anyone falling under ‘those people’ Because in your mind and your manner and words, They cannot possibly be equal.

Some see them as sub-human, Because of orientation, ability or skin But the reality is that the hatred inspires Bands the minorities together as kin.

They find their own spaces, and shows and representations Despite the prejudice that suppresses The evidence of inherent biology, their individuality To choose the narrative of psychological messes.

Perhaps you should date a boy instead, Lesbians often are advised. Is this about not having a father figure? Of gay men, a rhetoric that never tires.

Bisexuals, Aces and the followers of Pan Hear just as many ridiculous ideaologies As if the only conceptual path In life, is monosexual monotony.

We ask of the ace what is wrong with them, To not want certain contact or touch, Always ‘jokingly’ stating, That without sex what is the use of love?

The Pan, Poly, Bisexuals prefer certain people Sometimes two or more at a singular time It does not automatically assume adultery, And yet the association is always put to mind.

You laugh aloud at the very concept, Of a woman with breasts, and a phallus instead Of what you think should perhaps be, Situated between her legs.

Likewise when a young man has to wear A binder to suppress his chest, There’s always someone out there who dares Ask why ‘she’ is not in a dress.

Have you ever considered it is not, Nor ever really has had anything to do With your thoughts or beliefs, not your business It is their lives, and does not include you?

From the generation that endorsed a series Filled with abuse and assault Don’t blame the gays for your follies 50Shades was the heteros’ fault.

To be blunt, it is just so tiring To see and hear people of all types demeaned Because the ideology of difference disconcerts you And therefore must be obscene.

The fact is your words do unseen damage To people you pass everyday Mockery and condemnation build walls And turn friends and family away.

How could they tell someone like you, The person with a poisoned tongue That they fit the categories of those you condemn Your words wound both old and young. It is always a joke, a laugh, lighten up now ‘You need to stop being so severe, You and your silly internet culture, Where everyone thinks they’re ‘queer’!’

Back in your day... you start with, As young people more informed roll their eyes You claim that ‘x’ never existed Never considering they did, in disguise.

Even now people cannot be open, Holding hands in public tends to invite Someone lewd to proposition or harass them Tongues wag if you dare stay the night.

So of course historical figures, then and now, From Achilles to Sappho, were very open In fact you’ll find that their lives were revised By the straight archaeologists who cloaked them.

People have been people for a long time, It didn’t overtly matter to many If your husband or wife, or mate for life Wore a toga, dress or barely any.

Recently people have gotten hung up Moreso than ever before About which people you SHOULD be with And it’s really quite the bore.

Men have loved men for forever, Entire societies founded on this ideal And women have loved other women Since before civilisation was real.

Some fall into either category, both at once Or then again neither, these individuals exist And have done so, sucessfully For long enough to do without your ire.

Ancient Egypt buried their people, With great ceremony, purpose and pomp Their transgendered persons always honoured correctly, Would you dare to claim they were wrong?

Evidence and history have heroes,  Many of whom have been ‘revised’ For societal consumption as ‘everyday heroes’ Hiding their non-standard husbands and wives.

Look to Hercules and the Gods of Olympus They had a rolicking gay time But dare ask a historian about certain art And they’ll have heterosexualty in mind.

The purpose is to say, here That the reality is, all through history, we existed... Beyond tv and comics and other media It’s not a new fad that we twisted.

So sneer if you must when the two girls kiss, Or put down your book in disgust When the two male characters realise their infatuation Was not with the anticipated one.

But the story and characters are still there, Whether you choose to consume But perhaps consider this instead, livelaughlover They were not created for You.

To see yourself represented, Be it on page or screen As something other than the punchline or villain Feels like a wonderful dream.

It gives a sense of belonging, Normality in a world that blatantly refutes The existence of people outside of a bubble But some media actively salutes it.

An encouragement meant for the groupings Who need to see those people existing at all, The two boys on a date, the transgirl in a promdress Just humans, seeing, doing, being, normal.

So perhaps before you sneer or comment Perhaps before it’s ‘just joking’ Think about why you are acting that way,  Who, in society or family, are you quoting?

Why would you consider this person contemptible Below even basic empathy and compassion When exactly did hatred and bigotry Suddenly rise into high fashion?

They are not the heroes we need, my friend But they are the representation we deserve So let go of your prejudiced ideals They are nothing you need to preserve.

- - - -

I don’t know what this is, but sometimes you hear old people complaining and it’s so tiring...

[necro-romantic]

Experiencing oppression bc someone Thinks youre a cis woman doesnt make you a woman- that would be like if you got bullied for being gay but werent gay; it doesnt suddenly make you gay. Trans women who pass experience misogyny bc people assume theyre biologically female; trans women who dont pass experience discrimination as feminine men, bc people know theyre biologically male. I just cant understand defining gender based on anything but biology when its literally the only difference

the difference is a person who isn’t gay but is bullied for it is not gay, does not identify as gay, and is not having the internal experience of being gay, whereas a trans woman is identifying as and having the internal experience of a woman, viewing herself as a woman, and internalizing societies ideas about women. 

trans women who don’t pass do Not experience discrimination as feminine men, because i hear people i work with talk about them and it’s never “oh, look at that feminine man, how gross” it’s, “oh, that person is trying to be a woman and “failing” and it makes me uncomfortable” 

people i’ve met can tell the difference between a feminine man and a trans woman who doesn’t pass and they react to them completely differently. one reaction is based in homophobia, and one is based in transphobia. they are not the same. 

i know intersex people are a minority, but if you think gender is based on sex, is a person born with internal testes and xy chromosomes, but labia and a clitoris a man or a woman? if they’re raised as a woman are they a woman? if they’re raised as a man, are they a man? i realize these are rare cases, but it does mean gender isn’t always biology, because sometimes biology is more complicated than that.