#''but trans men sometimes pass'' & that suddenly makes them cis. got it

[pa-pa-plasma]

& by that she means "stop talking about transphobia as if it effects anyone but women." to be clear. the "growing up" is just staying quiet & invisible, & anything less is transmisogyny. of course.

[drdemonprince]

this will sound like one of those "let men be masculine" level niche internet community brained posts, but i honestly really was embarrassed of how much i like drag for a while. in the circles that i run in, liking drag too much is seen as pretty cringey and for wealthy cis gays. like everybody knows a few cool avante garde local performers that they fuck with who run queer dance parties that are inclusive and the like, but very few people that i know will just go to a drag show at an entertainment or social engagement for their own sake. it's almost seen as a tourist thing, a normie gay thing.

but its one of the few spaces where i can actually recognize a lot of feminine men and nonbinary man-thing-girly-freaks like of the particular type that i am. leather bars are so masc and buff and im often invisible. bear bars are really nice and i do feel welcome there! but people are only feminine in their mannerisms, not presentation very often. the more explicitly gender inclusive trans/queer spaces cater to more of a wlw and adjacent crowd whose relationships to masculinity and femininity are different from mine. circuit gay bars are obviously terrible.

drag is nice. there's guys with weird little haircuts and long earrings who aren't buff and are swishy and dress interestingly but are a little uncomfortable as their regular selves and have to don alternate personas in order to be outgoing. and i even like that it's okay to be bitchy and insulting sometimes in drag world, like sometimes that is just your genuine feedback on the work someone has done and it's not the end of the world. there's lot of open conflict in the drag world that actually works out pretty alright.

it's a local nightlife scene like all the rest, its got its theater kid bullshit and egos and superficiality out the ass and so many people are trying to be famous or make money, but even to this day i forget that i can just be a really weird feminine guy until i'm around some of them and watching them prance about. i worry about how i look or am being read and then even just watching a fucking drag race episode i'll see like 9 different guys who are so fucking androgynous with their weird assymetrical self cut haircuts that they pass less than i do and they're cis men. they have bodies or faces like i do. and in the local scene it's obviously even better because you're looking at real life people. maybe i should be over it by now but im not, i need to see weird little awkward feminine guys with funny outfits playing dress up and crying and fighting with one another because they never got over their last picked in gym class baggage. its meeee i relateee. i even like that its a little toxic! we've got some issues out here, let's joke with them and make a character of them instead of pretending to be nice!!

i tend to be pretty skeptical of "representation matters!" type shit but part of that is probably because i never really feel represented. i know, boo hoo, thin white man doesnt feel depicted on screen, sounds very silly. but then i see kade gottmik on drag race and i swell with emotion and suddenly feel like who i am is POSSIBLE in this world and i realize that even with all my privileges i am starved for representation and that it does benefit you to have it. theres trans guys on screen but thats not close enough to ping that ooh!!! ahh!!! i can love myself!! radar for me. it has to be a very particular kinda person. matt bernstein makes me feel similarly

[rewritingcanon]

Sorry, this might be a long rant but those anons and replies you were getting got me going. TERFs always say how trans women are “cosplaying” or “performing” what they think a woman is. But, and I say this as a cis woman, don’t cis women do that too? I’d argue that it’s not even performing womanhood, it’s performing femininity, and isn’t femininity a performance at the end of the day? Cis women wear makeup, jewelry, dresses, etc. usually to express their femininity, but it’s not inherent to being a woman. Being born a woman doesn’t automatically come with a gene that makes you interested in traditionally feminine things or ways of expression, it’s all socialization. People associate gender affirmation only with trans people, but cis men and woman do it too? Men will go to the gym to build muscle or get hair transplants to feel more masculine, and women will do things that make them feel more feminine. It’s all a performance that we put on for society. Cis women get cosmetic surgery to adhere to female beauty standards all the time (even JKR, allegedly) but suddenly it’s a problem when trans women do it?

It sucks because I do consider myself a radical feminist but TERFs make it hard to exist in that space. I think TERFs and I would agree that women getting plastic surgery is actually not an empowering or feminist choice and only further feeds an industry that profits off of making women (especially women of color) feel insecure. However, I don’t blame women for getting work done, because they’re essentially the victim in the scenario. Why would I blame someone who is groomed by a society that tells them certain parts of them are bad and need to be changed? It’s pointless and self righteous, and it only further puts the burden of being the “perfect victim” on women. I feel the same for trans women (and men). I don’t like that we live in a society that pressures people into undergoing sometimes very serious procedures to be more palatable. But that’s hardly their fault, is it? Can I really blame anyone for being worn down and making a decision to try and make their life in a toxic world easier? Specifically for trans women, it also involves their safety because they (specifically trans women of color) are the most at risk members of society, especially when it comes to violence. The more they ‘pass’, they are keeping themselves safe.

It’s just so crazy to me how TERFs can acknowledge that the patriarchy is toxic to women in ways that affect their daily lives and how they present themselves, but can’t seem to understand that it also affects other groups of people in those ways as well. Trans women aren’t our enemy, they’re just trying to survive, just like we are. How can I fault anyone for that?

Again, so sorry for the long rant but I got heated lmao

no dont apologise babe i completely agree LOL. its so sad because when i first came across radical feminism it was about their takes on sex work and the porn industry in general and i really agreed with a lot they had to say so i kept deep diving and THEN i came across the terfism. and to this day idk whether that is intrinsic to radfem ideology or if terfs are just saying it is. either way, its sad because i feel like radfems are sort of overshadowed by terfs in their spaces and get a bad rep to their name because of how many bigots use that space to promote their hateful rhetoric instead of promoting their good takes on patriarchy.

that original post about jkr got a lot of terfs/self proclaimed radfems in the shits too and i would scroll through their profiles and read what they had to say about the oppression of ciswomen and actually agree with them. and then they would turn around and argue the exact opposite about trans women which was absolutely mind-boggling to me. you tell me these people can discuss so many nuances about cis-womanhood but refuse to acknowledge similar nuances in transpeople? crazy. and very disappointing.

your point on plastic surgery and gender affirming surgery is interesting. ive never thought about it that way before or thought to compare the two. i agree with what you say about cis women getting plastic surgery btw, i also dont think it’s empowering women at all but i wont blame them. i think the difference between that and gender affirming surgery is that there are more grey areas like gender dysmorphia (although not everyone who gets this surgery has to have dysmorphia) and also what you said about safety in passing! im cis too so i dont pretend to know how gender dysmorphia feels like (i know dysmorphia is also not a trans-only thing either though). maybe the experience of that is because of socialisation and the knowledge that one’s physicality is preventing them from being socialised ‘correctly,’ and maybe that would disappear if strict ideas of gender (and what ‘man/woman’ “look” like) disappeared as well, but i don’t pretend to know lol. i dont want to make it out to be some big illusion of patriarchy or anything.

either way, you’re right. we are oppressed by patriarchy in similar ways, ways that are exacerbated for trans women (and more so for non-white trans women). even trans men are oppressed too, but im not so sure how they fit into terf rhetoric. i think they may just groups trans men in with cis women? although ive never seen a terf come on here and speak up for the oppression of trans men either so. lol.

sorry for taking so long to answer this i was pondering it for a long time 😭👍

[nothorses]

I don't know if anyone else has experienced this, and I worry about saying this off anon but I want to actually, be a face as I do. When I came out I knew I wasn't cis, and I was lucky enough to have the support of two wonderful trans partners, but I had an extremely hard time finding my place in the trans community. I am pro MOGAI and new, hyperspecific terms because I know how important it can be to want to put a name, a flag, and individual pride to your identity. 1/?

I switched my own terms quite a lot, from demigirl to genderfae to genderflux to where I am now, genderfluid. But I remember there was a moment, because I was so sure I was only female aligned, where I thought for just a moment that I might be a boy, and I was terrified, I didnt want to be a boy, I didnt want to be "that trans." Like every trans person, I struggled with internalized transphobia, not feeling valid or true enough in my identity, 2/15

But that dreadful feeling of being Scared of being a boy is something I think about a lot, and something I think is truly telling. I'll admit I primarily (only) use tumblr because social media honestly isnt my thing, so I can only speak to what I've seen here, but I remember seeing so little about trans men, other than the occasional mention in broad positivity posts, the even rarer info about binding or passing, but I did see how much people hated men. 3/15

It was always implied to be about cis men, I've been spared the more modern issues regarding overt hatred of trans men, but I saw the constant anger and vitriol and genuine hatred for men. And I realize now I wasnt just scared of being "too trans" I was scared of being hated. So I made myself nonthreatening, I called myself a boy, I performed femininity to an even higher, though subversive standard, because I was still so scared of being a man. The enemy. The oppressor. 4/15

It took many more months to dare say I wanted to call myself a man, and even then I was scared, in the comfort and safety of my girlfriend's company. I felt dirty saying it, and I still do. I always only dare to refer to myself as a trans man, instead of just as a man. And I do want to sidetrack for a moment and say my relationship to gender, as a genderfluid person, is admittedly more complex than just when I feel this way, in other ways people are also particularly hateful towards, 5/15

But even with those other facets, and my fear of being open in them, pale in comparison to my relationship with masculinity. Because when I did come out and admit to myself that sometimes, I am not a woman, or nonbinary, I am a man, I became more aware of things. I exited wonderland, so to say. Suddenly I became so much more aware of how much people simply did not care about me or people like me, and especially not our problems or concerns. 6/15

I saw how invisible I was, and worse than that, I saw a very subtle malice. The only mention of trans men were in those broad positivity posts including everyone under the trans umbrella, or in the rare case something was positive exclusively for trans men, it was always reblogged with "dont forget trans women/enby people" tacked on, I remember once I looked in the trans tag and counted how many posts it took to find one exclusively about trans men that didnt mention binding 7/15

I got into the forties. Because on other posts, I would see people make passive aggressive remarks about how "trans men are talked about too much" or "there's all these resources for trans men, what about trans women" and I wanted to know on what earth the people who said that were living on, because the only, and I mean the only thing people tend to talk about in regards to trans men is how to safely bind, and rarely, the effects of HRT. 8/15

This happened a while ago, but I remember seeing a number of posts on my dash about how much representation trans men receive. I believe there was a panel about trans people, where a majority of the panelists were trans men, and trans women were less represented than them. They encouraged people to complain, said we received too much attention, and pointed at mythical trans male rep in media that in reality, I could count on one hand. I remember being so angry and passionate about it 9/15

Now im honestly just tired. I dont feel accepted by the trans community, and even the trans male community is iffy (I fit in amongst mogai people most, but I cant deny trumeds are particularly prevalent, and it wore on me), and it's so tiring to have every post made by trans men for trans men have to be preambled by belittling themselves and downplaying their own suffering. I just want to exist in peace, but I feel like that's too much to ask. 10/15

I've reached a point of exhaustion that I have become entirely apathetic to my own gender, what was once a deeply important aspect of my identity. I feel disconnected from it, and as a consequence from my own body. I don't bother examining it anymore because I can't feel it, as someone who suffers from dissociation, I feel dissociated from it in order to protect myself, something I was once so openly proud about. 11/15

Im scared to try and push for transition, for my own personal reasons, but now on top of those Im terrified of being silenced and belittled and hated for something that should make me happy. I've tried so hard not to feed into the lateral violence and become embittered towards trans women, because that's not fair, but I won't lie and say it hasnt been hard when I have seen more than I ever would've liked be so willing to ignore or outright throw their brothers under the bus 12/15

And of course there are even more who do show their support for their brothers, and for that im thankful, but this invisibility effects how I perceive everything. I feel like I've been pushed back into the closet, I say im trans because I know I'm not cis but I don't even know who I am, what my place is, and I'm scared to explore because I'm scared that who I am will be violently rejected by the people meant to support me. I want to be free to even explore who I am. 13/15

I wish people would listen to my experiences and what I have to say, but in every microaggression every act of ignoring I feel silenced. Trans men are viewed as predatory, just in a different way; trans men are fetishized and have chasers; trans men face higher rates of violence and sexual assault for being trans men; research about transmasc transition is almost nonexistent, and new, better surgeries are not even thought about; transmasc history is erased and silenced. 14/15

I, feel like im rambling at this point, and I'm sorry I've been so longwinded, I just. I want to thank you, for creating a space where I can speak my truth, because before finding your blog I didn't think anyone would care. I feel like I have so much more to say but honestly im scared, and too tired, and have said enough for now. I just want this feeling of loneliness to go away and hopefully I'll find a way to accept myself. Thank you for listening to me, and giving me a platform to speak 15/15

(Edited the numbers for accuracy)

Thank you for trusting me with this, and to other folks: I think this is an important narrative to listen to and share!

[brawla]

What was his childhood like with his brothers and a single mother, and how did he come out to them? Was he well received? How does it affect all his relationships in life, given the time period?

GH okay i can talk in depth about this so its going under a cut. warnin for talk abt dysphoria, blasphemy (only kind of vaguely referred to), vague implications of nonphysical abuse and potential misgendering/transphobia/etc

so like… he was born a fraternal twin which wasnt so shocking to the family dynamic bc there was already a pair of twins But after having a total of 9 kids and One of them being born biologically female you kinda fixate on that yknow? so. elliot was most definitely Pegged to be the odd one out from the start but he kinda never really was. he played in the same way that his brothers played and loved getting dirty and being a general nuisance and he was, in essence, already One Of The Boys by like age 4. i should note also his oldest brother is 10 years older and most of them have like a ½ y age difference

inserting this bit right here to clarify the dog incident happened when he was 6 and four of them were playing in a dry canal n there were wild dogs hiding in the underpass (and up until then hed only known dogs as nice creatures) so he goes to pet em yadda yadda arms and legs get fucked up real bad. forearms are still wicked sensitive and scarred up but his knees recovered merely because he ran. they didnt have money for hospital bills so he was kinda useless for a while though

so anyway. despite her child obviously being a “““tomboy”““ she still attempted to force him into frilly dresses and do his hair all nice and when he was Really young he didnt super care but eventually noticed the difference in how his mom allowed his brothers to behave vs how she allowed him to behave and it upset him??? and granted this was more when he was like 8 or 9 and it was less “elli go play” and more “elli help me with dinner” even though she often didnt include anybody else in that request. so he starts cutting his own hair and disobeying openly and gets kinda mean because of it (thus his inclusion in being a Town Terror with the other brothers) uhh

they fought a Lot as kids bc margaret wasnt the Best at keeping them in line especially when shed get more concerned with sleeping with other men/going out for the nice bc once chase (oldest) was old enough to technically be in charge shed just kinda Leave sometimes an pray they didnt set the house on fire. because of that it was “im trapped in a house with all my brothers lets wrestle and scream until the neighbors call the cops on us because somebody might be dying” but at the end of the day they still had that Sibling Bond that rose above anything else

moving back onto the Trans Narrative: he realizes somethings up mid/end of middle school and hes not sure how to put it into words but he doesnt Feel Good anymore. doesnt like hearing his deadname or being the singular “girl” of the family. his twin, owen, is like, his first Go To for comfort and owen doesnt know either but he doesnt really Care. one time he tries to tell his mom but she waves him off and tells him never to bring it up again and… he Doesnt. goes through his first couple years of high school horrifically depressed and just barely passing year to year if Even passing until the very beginning of junior year he just Stops going. owen and some of the more fraternal of his brothers, when older, are kinda the only thing that keeps him grounded and ultimately he feels Useless ages 16 to 18

spy is his first contact bc he knows his mom who kinda just laments about how useless this kid who used to be so excited to play baseball with his brothers and run around and race freely is all of the sudden, please make him stop. and spys reluctant but also Guilty and has him flown out to nm for various hit and run jobs and elliot doesnt really realize what hes been thrust into at first but it gets to a point where doing Anything (even Crime) feels so good he doesnt care. inducted officially into the team when hes 19 or 20 and also has his name legally changed within that time period (jeremy is his “formal” name his mom insisted upon when he informed her this was a thing that was happening and she couldnt do anything about it, but if addressed by his actual name hed much rather hear elliot except in Official or as previously stated, formal, settings). voila The Scout is born

he technically comes out to the family when hes like 18/19 and already living out of home and he comes back to visit for a gathering where a lot of people are there includin some of his brothers’ dads. and nobody really knows what to do (mom im trans and also stronger than you so dont try any shit) bc most of them are religious and all of the boys were raised christian even if they were just going to church for the sake of going to church. and like… over time they adapt… margaret pulls the whole “this is all my fault my babys going to hell” thing for a while and makes it about her and some of his brothers do the same (william, the second oldest and michael, one of the other twins are the only two who are like “absolutely not youre disowned never speak to me again” and disallow their kids from seeing him EVEN THOUGH his nieces and nephews love him the Most) but eventually they kinda Get It. and dont Agree with it but cant bear to just leave their baby brother behind. so. its like. they fuck up the pronouns a lot but still Vaguely try. he doesnt talk to them a lot and wishes honestly hed never said anything and just moved out and lived stealth (hes stealth in tfi). he sends money home bc despite all his mom did and said to him bc deep down he still cares but. yknow. he avoids them if he can

SORRY THAT GOT LONG onto other tidbits

he never did baseball in school but played recreationally with the boys every time he got the opportunity to but he did run track when he got to eighth grade/high school and was really fantastic at it. hed run and began exercising initially as a way to beat his brothers but his mom makes some off-handed comment about how its good hes finally doing that, he could bear to lose somea that chub, nobody likes a fat girl (hes 12!) and is like Ah. and hes less self conscious about his weight now bc hes accepted the fact most of his weight is muscle and hes naturally curvy partly bc hes pretty and partly bc hes a runner. hes very very secure in himself and his identity even if he cant just tell people hes trans

he probably wouldve continued religiously if he hadnt been told by multiple sources that the “behaviors” he engaged in would upset god and get him banished to hell for life so he stopped going to church when he moved. of course, god only confirming he was his gift to the earth made him (silently) rub it in his familys face and he stopped uhh. believing in what was taught at churches simply bc he was convinced hed met god and proved all of them wrong? anyway

at the age and place he is he tends not to make lasting relationships with many people, at least romantically, because hes positive one of these days hell move to a place people dont know him and hell have had surgery and suddenly fit in with the cis and be able to settle down then. god knows he has the money for it; but for where hes at he tends not to care, not to tell anybody, n probably hasnt uhhh yknow Bonked for several years which is whatever he lives. He Lives. i think thats all i have to say on this IM SO SORRY but. this ask is very important to me

[adventures-in-transmania]

Let’s talk about misgendering. I know I’ve addressed this before. It used to be a constant sore spot from the time I came out to the time I started passing as male.

High school was a joke. I knew I was trans at that point. I was reluctant to talk about it with the cisgender male friends I had, seeing as they weren’t exactly supportive about the name I preferred to go by. Online was a welcome reprieve, I didn’t have to show my face, I could talk to people. I felt bad about ‘lying’ for some time to some pretty decent friends, however, once I actually talked to them about /why/ I did it, they became the most supportive people in my life at that time. I’m not quite sure what would have happened without them. My family wasn’t the best, I’m sure I’ve gone over that repeatedly.

I got to college where a classmate brought me into their circle of friends, most of which happened to be queer. Even those who weren’t were super supportive (or certainly knew how to pretend to be-again, another sore spot that I’ve gone over repeatedly). It was nice. I didn’t realize that initially and introduced myself as my deadname by wrong pronouns. I had to reintroduce myself and while some people didn’t understand why I didn’t just do that in the first place, they went right along with it, just like they did with the several other people who did the same. I was so used to going by my legal name, by my legal pronouns, I didn’t think I could do anything else. The name thing was something to get used to, not only for those around me but for myself as well. The pronouns, people kept apologizing. They still do sometimes. A quick apology is okay. Ideally, just the correction is necessary. I misgendered myself and deadnamed myself so often at first. I have talked to trans people who had the same issue, I’ve talked to trans people who said they’d known for as long as they can remember and didn’t have this issue. It depends on the person.

In high school and for the first part of college, I wasn’t really all that dysphoric about the lack of facial hair, my body shape, my voice, etc, etc. Hell, I was okay with never starting hormone therapy. It wasn’t a sore spot. I was still all for top surgery; breasts just get in the way, tbh. But it was expensive and I didn’t have the necessary support.

However, after going to counseling, talking to some other trans people (one trans woman in particular, tbh), a switch got flipped and suddenly I was aware in a way that was much more painful. I wanted the flat chest, I wanted everything that would make people think I passed as male without question. A peer referred to me as ‘he’ for the first time without saying ‘she’ first and things just /clicked/. I felt relief and anxiety. I felt gender euphoria. By that point, I believe I was in the process of legally changing my name. The university had quite the time with it, but the professors seemed to not remember me from the first two years I spent being quiet, so they seemed to have an easy time adjusting. My advisor, I’m pretty sure didn’t even come to know me as my deadname.

I realized I wasn’t genderfluid or non-binary. I was a transgender man. I invested in a binder. The first time I put it on, I’m pretty sure I cried or came very close to it. I was still hiding this stuff from my parent, because of a lack of support. I would bind occasionally to start with, it wasn’t a necessity. Everyone around me knew I had breasts, it was kind of hard to hide DD boobs. I wasn’t supposed to start HRT while living with my parent and grandmother, so I got a bit depressed, believing there was no hope of ever achieving that goal. It wasn’t a big deal before, but now it was. It was becoming a chore to explain to people around me that just because I appeared to be a woman, I wasn’t. I wasn’t good at confrontation. My friends were great (well, except for some instances, but again, beating a dead, traumatized horse). I relied heavily on their support, their attempts at not misgendering me, at not deadnaming me. I had a classmate that graduated with me from high school that I thought would pose a problem, but he was fantastic. I know it was harder on him than the rest, considering he’d known me from such a young age, since before we had a concept of gender, part of living in a small town, and he lived probably 2000 ft away from me for the majority of our lives, not that we were close.

At work, I had several older women who tried their hardest. My department manager wasn’t the best, but the effort was made and I could not ask anything more. She was infamous for the long apology, the one I’ve come to hate. It’s nothing personal, I promise, but every trans person knows it takes time and effort. You do not need to go into the whole speech. We’ve heard it before. Hell, most of us have said it before, whether it be to ourselves or others. We understand it takes time. We understand that you met us under different circumstances and that it’s hard to change your perception of us. But the more you do it, the less you have to think about it. Whether it be name or pronouns, the more you make the effort to refer to someone with the correct pronouns, even if it doesn’t match your perception of us, it will come more naturally and eventually you won’t even have to try! How do I know? Because I looked in the mirror, compared myself to every other cisgender male I saw, pointed out all of the areas people would consider feminine or masculine. I analyzed every move, every thought I had. I categorized things as masculine or feminine (in a very binary way of thinking, which is harmful in of itself). I nitpicked myself. I practiced and practiced. No matter what I did though, I couldn’t change my voice, my breasts, my first impressions on people. They perceived me as a woman and I could not change that, no matter how I acted. I could see how trans men fall into the toxic masculinity thing, and I did myself on some instances. I’m trying my best to be better now, but it’s easier when you pass.

I worked in customer service. I didn’t correct customers because they saw me once and that was it. It was pointless. So I got misgendered a fuckton. It hurt, sure. But I forgot about it, most of the time. I tried talking to my transgender parent about it and got indifference or the argument “they couldn’t possibly know,” as if I didn’t already know that. I was looking to them for support, not for them to defend everyone else. I knew logically it made sense, but that doesn’t mean it didn’t hurt any less. It didn’t mean I didn’t deserve support from someone who I thought would get it.

The rare instances I’d get gendered correctly would make my fuckin’ week. I’d be happy the rest of the day. Getting misgendered was just another ‘eh, whatever’ moment, especially at work, or for anyone just meeting me for the first time. I had classes I was out in and my peers were rather great with discussion. I particularly remember touching on trans issues in sociology and having great discussions with a variety of people. They corrected their pronoun usage once they realized I may have looked like a woman, but I outed myself as a trans man.

In my experience, women had a much easier time with the acceptance. I had a handful of men who also accepted me, but women seemed to have less of an issue. I felt more comfortable around men in middle and high school, just because I got along better with them. But after that, women felt safer. Whether they perceived me as a woman or as a transgender man, I felt safer in their presence rather than men.

In the same vein as the legal name and pronouns, I had issues with restrooms. I felt uncomfortable using women’s public restrooms and I felt forbidden to use men’s rooms. The incident with my cisgender men who called themselves friends and who I considered supportive certainly destroyed any progress I’d made. There were times, I’d either put it off or walk across campus just to use the one single stall restroom. I felt uncomfortable having to use a stall every time. It was bad. I left college in June of 2018. I stopped talking to pretty much everyone from college at that point. I stopped counseling.

Before that, however, I left my job with some supportive coworkers. I talked so openly about being trans, those who weren’t supportive were surrounded by people who were. I was terrified. I left this job to take one with my aunt, who didn’t know I was trans, who didn’t really keep in contact with me.

I started in August of 2018. By the end of October, I walked into an appointment I had with specialty care and got my first shot of T, unbeknownst to my parent, my grandmother, my aunt, my current workplace, which I’d only been at for a few months. I wanted to come out before that. I needed to. I was so tired of being misgendered and just broken down. It hurt and I had nowhere to go with that hurt, no one to talk to, no one who got it. My conservative aunt didn’t know, I worked with many older people, older men especially. I was terrified. I couldn’t talk to my transgender parent about it because I’d get the whole speech “you have to understand...” I understood! They didn’t know any better. When I tried to talk to them about anything regarding trans issues, it was them making excuses for cis people. Like, I get it, cis people can’t be expected to suddenly ‘get’ it, but I sought out to complain to another trans person who I thought <i>would</i> get it. The fact I didn’t even have that outlet, it was discouraging, to say the least. If another trans person, if my <i>parent</i> didn’t ‘get’ it, what chance was someone else going to?

I started HRT and suddenly it wasn’t an option anymore. They’d notice. I needed to be out. I should have told my aunt first, I shouldn’t have taken the job without telling her, I shouldn’t have taken the job without telling /them/, them being my three male managers. I was terrified.

I talked to my parent about it. They offered no advice. They left the option up to me. To be fair, I didn’t give them an option with the HRT. I wasn’t supposed to start it while living with them and I did. They were disappointed I didn’t tell them prior, but I think I would have made the same decision given the circumstances. Their condition was that I shave if necessary and keep my voice high for my grandmother (the second of which I did not do, but it didn’t seem to make a difference, she didn’t notice that).

I wore a button at first that said “ask me about my pronouns” or “use male pronouns.” It was a big store that day. At the end of the day, I came out to my aunt, who said “niece, nephew, it doesn’t matter,” which was nice at the time. It was definitely a response I didn’t expect to get, but was happy about. I wasn’t really someone the managers were keeping tabs on, so it flew under the radar for quite some time. In November of 2018, probably a month or two after I came out to my aunt, I was a passenger to a travel store with another coworker (a team leader) who I apparently felt comfortable enough to address the issue with. He’d helped me more than any other person at this job and seemed like a decent guy. I figured he’d at least understand the dilemma I had, given other circumstances. I either didn’t use the women’s restroom and avoided the men’s room, or got over my anxiety (thanks “friends”) and insisted I use the men’s room. It wouldn’t have been bad, but I worked with so many different people in so many different places. A lot of the places didn’t have gender neutral options and I didn’t want to make my coworkers uncomfortable. However, after starting HRT, it was clear I would eventually pass to our clients and it would become unsafe to use the women’s restroom, if that was what they agreed upon. Luckily, I live in NY where the state law is people are able to use the restroom of their gender identity, thank you NYC. Unfortunately NYC doesn’t offer protection up in our very conservative area. When you pass several Trump 2020 signs in small towns, you feel a little unsafe as a transgender individual.

This coworker offered what I would  have considered unconditional support. He even offered to talk to our managers on my behalf. While I asked him not to, as I thought I should be the one to talk to them about it, he did anyways and it made it somewhat less awkward. He was sooo god damned supportive, more so than any other cisgender man in my life offline had ever been. I went into our office probably a week later to talk to the three managers about it, only to have the wind taken out of my sails when they said he had already brought it to their attention and it shouldn’t pose an issue. I had spent an entire week planning what I would say in my defense, because that’s how I thought. In my last job, my manager offered to put a lock on the men’s room so I’d feel comfortable, which I never took her up on. This wasn’t exactly an option in this job and my managers didn’t seem to have ever worked with other trans individuals, so they wouldn’t have really had the forethought or sensitivity training like my last manager to have thought of something like that.

It still wasn’t exactly that easy. I didn’t want to cause issues so I would keep an eye out to make sure no one else from our company would be in there before using the restroom. It was torturous at times, it was unfair, to be completely honest. I hated that I had to do it, I hated that I felt the need to do it, I hated that one person who made me feel so uncomfortable in male spaces that I still, despite passing quite well (I haven’t gotten misgendered by a stranger in <i>months</i>) STILL have minor anxiety about using men’s restrooms. I’m getting better, but I still brace myself for the confrontation that may occur. I’ve had several male workers who have either seen me exit the men’s room or been in there with me but haven’t caused an issue. I have a handful of circumstances I remember in particular. One being an older gentleman having no issue seeing me come out of the men’s room. I don’t think I ever came out to him, but he didn’t even hesitate. I was terrified he’d have an issue with it, but he just treated me as he usually did, nice as could be. I’m pretty sure he stopped referring to me with she/her after that. Another instance I waited to make sure another male coworker wasn’t going in on break because he would always refer to me as she or her. That supervisor, the one who’d shown “unconditional acceptance,” followed me in not thirty seconds later. I had a slight panic attack. I wasn’t exactly ‘passing’ at that time, and it was certainly another coworker, not a stranger. I couldn’t help but think back to that time with ‘friends’ where they were okay with it until suddenly they were faced with the reality that they would be sharing ‘male spaces’ with me and suddenly they weren’t okay with it. I didn’t want to, I couldn’t go through that again, not with the one person at this job who seemed to not only accept me but was able to talk about serious stuff like that, while somehow making it seem a lot less serious. I waited as long as I felt socially acceptable before exiting the stall and proceeded to wash my hands and leave.

Skipping ahead to probably a couple months ago, that same supportive coworker (ally, if anyone deserves that title) got excited over someone gendering me correctly. This, after months of people gendering me correctly. It was still super validating and kind of him. It was nice to see someone else excited over a source of gender euphoria for me. I may have brushed it off at the time because of course others who hadn’t met me before were calling me by male pronouns, I passed well enough. But I think it’s harder for those who met me with their perception of being a woman. I don’t think they’re able to see past that perception as easily as people who didn’t have that perception to begin with. That’s why I don’t mind too much if my coworkers misgender me occasionally, as long as it’s followed by a correction, no apology necessary. I get it, you met me and thought I was a woman, and I didn’t correct you then. However, if you don’t correct yourself, you will get me correcting you. I’m done being misgendered mercilessly in front of clients, ESPECIALLY when I’m the one running the inventory.  I know I pass well enough to clients, I haven’t been misgendered by clients in probably ~8 months, unless they hear one of my coworkers say something.

That leads me to today. Since 2020 started, I’ve been rather aggressive in correcting people about pronoun usage. I was quiet before, to the point that people may not have heard me. However, I now have facial hair and a pretty deep voice. I’ve been passing for at least 6 months now. They’ve had time. If you do not correct yourself, I will loudly do so for you. So, I’ve had rather very little sleep in the last week or so, working and all. I was a bit manic this morning. An older gentleman misgendered me (not the first time, probably won’t be the last) and I corrected him rather publicly (”I’m not a girl, thank you!”) in front of several coworkers. The supervisor, that ally I mentioned earlier, came up to me probably 30-60 minutes later, apologizing for that guy. I had no clue what he was talking about originally. I was over it after two minutes. After being misgendered for 6-8 years, it’s not something you hold close to your heart. He asked if I wanted to know, I, of course, said yes. After he informed me, I felt the need to explain some things. I’ve never had someone apologize for someone else. Especially a cisgender man apologize for some other cisgender man. I’ve talked to this supervisor about some personal things, too, and I like to think he gets it to the extent that he can, just like I can sympathize, but not entirely understand the things he’s got going on. It’s an understanding that I don’t have with many other people. It’s nice in that environment. I’m not sure why he felt the need to apologize, maybe the fact I was so loud about it, but I wasn’t exactly “upset” by it. Rather, I want the correction to be made, because then hopefully he’ll correct himself next time, and the time after that, there may not even need to be a correction. He seemed to think I took it to heart that this person misgendered me when 1. this person misgenders me a lot, 2. I expect this person to misgender me a lot, and 3. I take it to heart <i>every</i> time a person misgenders me. I mean, sure, if certain people were to begin to misgender me, yeah, it would hurt, especially after all the time they put into not misgendering me. But this guy is not and will not be one of them. It was such an insignificant event but I guess my response went above what was expected? Despite being told that my response was completely valid? It was just an odd exchange, although I still appreciated that thought and the fact he listened to my reasoning. That person had no reason to apologize on behalf of someone else, though. I’m rather sorry he felt the need to.

[just-kateblr]

I was tagged by @my-wanton-self

1. What’s your biggest pet peeve? Willful ignorance and people who are purposefully inconsiderate.  (They’re related, I suppose, but can manifest differently.)

2. What one fear would you like to conquer?  Currently, my biggest that I would like to conquer is openly presenting myself as female to the world. 

3. What’s your favourite song lyric and why? There are quite a few it’s hard to pick just one.  The one I’ll go with is from Sweet Jane from the Velvet Underground: Some people they like to go out dancin’/ and other people they have to work. Just watch me now/ and there's even some evil mothers/ Well there gonna tell you that everthing is just dirt/ you know that women never really faint/ and that villians always blink their eyes/ that children are the only ones who blush/and that life is just to die/ But anyone who ever had a heart/ they wouldn't turn around and break it/ and anyone who ever played a part / They wouldn't turn around and hate it.  Why do I like it?  I think it kind of speaks for itself.

4. If you could shop at one store for free, which would it be?  I would have to flip a coin between Nordstrom or Costco.

5. Which language would you like to speak fluently? Spanish.

6. What secret super power would you like to have, and why? Shapeshifting. You could get into just about anywhere.

7. Would you like to be famous and what would you like to be known for? I have no desire to be famous.

8. What was the worst haircut you ever had? A long time ago, I moved to Northern Virginia and needed a haircut.  I went to a barbershop that apparently specialized in military cuts and while I just asked for a trim, he got out clippers and after the first pass, I knew I was in trouble. I ended up with something pretty close to a high and tight.  It was awful. 

9. What are the most important qualities in friends? Honesty, intelligence, the willingness to share thoughts and opinions, good sense of humor, empathy, and a desire to make things better somehow.  I love having a common understanding and, at the same time, being able to challenge and be challenged.

10. What’s the most significant lesson you’ve learned in life so far?  People’s needs will not always match your own; it’s what they do at that point that is important.  Also, sometimes life is shitty, but it generally improves eventually.  Maybe not in the way you thought, but you’ll find that it’s no longer shitty.  (Yes, I know, that’s technically two. I’m lousy at following the rules.)

11. What makes you laugh the hardest? My daughters. They’re just plain funny.

12. What’s your proudest accomplishment? That’s a hard one because I tend not to look back too much. Plus, much of what I’ve accomplished has also been because other people have played along, so I can’t take full credit.

13. If you could have any view out the window of your room, which would it be?  The ocean. I grew up near the water and am now in the middle of the US.  I would love to be near a large body of water.  

14. If you could eat dinner with one celebrity, who would it be, and why? I can’t say that he’s a celebrity, but Barack Obama is certainly famous and would be an amazing dinner companion.  I’d probably want to have a ranging conversation about policy, his life, and experiences as President.  Plus, for bonus points, I’d try to get him to open up and vent about how he really feels about Trump.

15. If you could do something dangerous just once with no risk, what would you do?  I can’t think of much, I’ve already done a number of things that people consider dangerous.  I think removing the fear of danger would take away the adrenaline and most of the fun.

16. What’s your all-time favourite music video? Undercover of the Night by The Rolling Stones. It’s a great video; almost like a short film.

17. Which three words would you use to describe yourself? Smart, funny, empathetic.

18. What’s the first thing you’d do if you suddenly changed into the opposite sex? As a trans woman, I’m going to write my own rules here.  I am a woman, but if I suddenly had the body of a cis woman, I’d explore my tits and bits, then masturbate like there was no tomorrow. 

19. What’s your favourite website, and why?  I have eclectic tastes and moods, so it varies by the minute and the hour.  I love all of the information and places that I can go with the internet. 

20. If you got a tattoo, what would you get and where would you put it? I cannot think of one thing I would want on my skin forever.  If I had to choose, I might either get “Be Here Now” in a nice font on my wrist OR a butterfly on my shoulder for the symbolism. 

21. When you’re down, what do you do to feel better? I try not to wallow too long and look to do something to change the channel. That usually involves moving my body in some way or another.  I also reach out to dear friends for conversation and engagement.

22. If you could go on tour with a band for a month, who would it be, and why? Not my thing.

23. What’s you favourite dessert? I have a weakness for cannolis. Good ones, though.  The kind where the outside is freshly baked and then filled immediately before serving, so you have the mix of the crunch and the softness.  Divine! 

24. What one thing would you want to do most if you had all the money in the world? Ensure that money was not a barrier to anyone seeking further education.

25. Who’s the least obvious person you’d like to kiss? Least obvious? Maybe Sam Rockwell. There is something about him that I find strangely sexy. 

26. Would you join in at a topless beach? At this point, if I had a nice set of boobs, I would happily share them at a topless beach.

27. Where would you most like to travel?  I have too many choices to list here.  I would travel almost incessantly if I could.  I’ve not yet been to South America, Africa, or Antarctica, so those would be on the top of my list.  

28. What would you eat for your ultimate birthday dinner?  I tend to like food that is good and fresh.  I’d start with a fresh salad, with bleu cheese and bacon.  Grilled filet mignon. Very fresh corn on the cob.  Freshly baked bread with a nice crunchy crust.  Roasted brussel sprouts.  Good cannoli for dessert.

29. What was your most embarrassing moment? Eh, if you really want to know, hit me up in chat. It’s a bit of a story that involves Chinese food and getting sick in a work colleague’s hotel room.  It was mortifying when it happened, but it’s pretty darned funny.

30. What historical sporting event would you like to witness? In person, I’d love to the 1999 Men’s NCAA Basketball Championship.  My alma mater, the University of Connecticut, was the underdog and upset heavily favored Duke for their first national championship.  It was great to watch on TV, but it would be amazing to see in person. 

31. Which song evokes the strongest memories for you? Missing You - John Waite

32. What’s the best birthday celebration you can imagine? I don’t ever want a huge celebration, I’d love to have a bunch of close friends around where we can talk, drink, eat, laugh, and generally just enjoy everyone’s company.

33. What’s your favourite ethnic food? Mexican.

34. Do you have any habits you’d like to give up?  Procrastination.

35. What would you save first if your house caught on fire? Children, spouse, then pets.

36. Who would you trade places with for one month?  I’m not picky, and this might sound shallow, but I’d trade places with an able bodied cis woman who is considered above average in appearance. In other words, I’d love to see what it was like to live as an unequivocally gorgeous woman. 

37. What’s the story behind your first name? I had the joy of being able to select one for myself, which ended up being harder than I thought.  I like what I landed on, though.

38. What’s been the biggest obstacle in your life so far?  I don’t like the word obstacle.  I take it to mean a barrier that blocks things.  While I have had plenty of challenges, I try to not let those things block me.  My hope is to always move forward, even if it is slowly. No question, my biggest challenge is being trans. 

39. Have you ever stolen something? What was it? Why did you steal it? Ugh, yes.  I was traveling in Australia some years ago and I noticed a wallet sitting on some phone books at the post office. I looked inside and there was a couple hundred dollars in it.  I left it sitting there and went to make my call, but kept my eye on it.  Someone else from the hostel I was staying in walked in, saw the wallet, and then we locked eyes.  I indicated that I didn’t know whose it was and he reached in an pulled out the cash.  I figured, if it was going to be stolen, I was going to benefit from it (I was low on cash at the time).  We walked around the corner, he split the money with me and we went our separate ways.  I still regret doing this and wish that I had picked up the wallet when I first saw it and turned it in.

40. To you, what’s the secret to happiness? I believe happiness is really just enjoying life’s simple and pleasurable moments.  We’ve got so much that goes on that has peaks and valleys of emotion and it is important to feel those, for the good and the bad.  It is the small moments that are the glue to our lives, though.  A laugh with a friend.  Warm sunshine on your skin on a cool day.  The smell of salt air.  To me, it’s enjoying those moments that are what make for happiness and joy.

Please do not feel compelled to do this, but I’m going to tag a few people whom I would love to see their responses.  I tag @mymindisdrawinga, @annacaffeina, @perfectlyscrumptious, @perfectlywhelmed, @visionaria, @tumbleweedsinmyvagina, @ptero-bites, @misslondoncallin, @vampysquid, and I started thinking this list was getting long, so I stopped, but please feel free to respond away if you are taken with the idea.

[noonstate]

under a cut again because i cannot keep things short to save my life, apologies in advance.

this was super off the cuff originally just because i didn’t / don’t want to delete my previous posts on the topic but wanted to expand my current thoughts, so the original post ( and this reply ) are going to be unfortunately sloppy in some ways. i agree 100% with your main thought / first paragraph, though.

to clarify / respond to other stuff:

first / men + patriarchy ) i do agree that men can and do contribute to the patriarchy but the point i was more trying to make is that men are often given a kind of super-agency in discussions about patriarchy, as if all that needs to happen for it to fall away is for a large enough handful of men to suddenly decide not to be patriarchal.

i am rereading ‘the will to change’ for the first time since i read it in uni like three (oh god maybe more) years ago now so that’s been informing a lot of my thoughts on the matter, and she talks at length about how mothers + women are equally complicit in the messaging that is passed on to boys / male children, sometimes even moreso in the case of single mothers. there is no patriarchy cabal but its an entrenched system and i think for feminism to be effective, or even viable, we need men to join. part of that is getting men to do feminist thinking and learning about the issues, but another thing is to stop treating them as inherently the enemy.

the thing of it is, fighting the big fight is hard, and tough, and your average joe-blow on the street might not realise that he can or should. i’m not saying you said this, but i have seen some people treat every individual man as a sort of mini-patriarchy all his own making, which again i think gives men too much credit. it’s extremely easy to be blind to your own biases.

i’m white, and i have to work at being anti-racist, not because i was raised by racists (i got lucky there) but because there are some things so in-built at a social level by people for hundreds of years that until i stop and think “wait this doesn’t have to be this way” and look at my own thoughts and actions in a new light. and it's hard to do that! sometimes i feel shitty about stuff i said as a tween or whathaveyou, but that's growth. but i also think it's easier to not realise you should be trying to grow if you've been sort of insulated from having to think about it, which many men def have been insulated from.

second / privilege ) this may be strictly a “i wrote quickly and didn’t frame things will” ism because again i absolutely agree with what you’ve said here. to sort of break down what i was trying to get across, let’s imagine the subject that the capitalist white supremacist patriarchy was built for: a white, cis, het, able-bodied, successful man. this society sees this as the default kind of person. anyone who isn’t, is told to hold themselves to the standard of this default, and punished for failing. we see this with the construction of whiteness in north america, a way to legalise the default and punish those who don’t fall within it. i think it also could be a framing thing, like the taller glass looking more full than the shorter glass type deal. whether you think about a privilege as rising you up above, or as a marginalisation as pulling you down. i suppose it’s active vs passive, right. and i’m not saying there aren’t people who do actively weaponise and use their privilege but i think the more insidious thing is that it can and often is this like, passive thing, which is why it’s important to self-examine. but honestly i might have just phrased it badly (probably why i failed out of uni lol)

third / anti-trans bills ) i didn’t mention trans girls in sports which really was just an oversight, but as i’ve seen it, any bills targeting trans healthcare have been fueled by a moral panic of the irreversible damage variety. i think i’ve heard ‘castration’ as a talking point once or twice, mostly tho connected to whole ‘the puberty blocker drug is also used for chemical castration’ thing, but mostly the healthcare bills afaik have been about stopping young “girls” from cutting off their breasts, getting a hysterectomy, etc. this i’m taking mostly from the talking points used by the right-wing lawmakers and pundits in america and the kiera bell verdict in the uk, so i could be missing smth here! i’m canadian so my knowledge of both us + uk law is mostly based off of what i hear / see in the news.

but yes, the sports bills / bathroom bills / anti-drag bills fall in line with the violence used against trans women, whereas the healthcare ones fall more in line with the paternalism used against trans men, at least as i’ve seen so far. it’s a harder sell for sexists to say “oh my god they’re cutting your son’s precious balls off !!!!!” than it is for them to fear-monger about Young Girls, i guess, whereas equally young trans girls in sports are…… super dangerous to their fellow girls? and the sports genital inspection thing are their own kettle of fish, just like. extremely fucked.

again, this reply is unedited but i just wanted to give some clarity? perhaps. hoping this doesn't come off as aggro, i really do think you made good points and more or less i don't disagree with any of it.

also you're 100% more than welcome to im me if you feel i didn't get or misrepresented anything in this reply.

ive spoken about transandrophobia before on here and while i don’t disagree more or less with what ive said i think perhaps there is an issue with the word itself. transmisogyny, much like misogynoir, is less about one + one and more about a blended kind of discrimination that happens alongside others. transandrophobia isn’t exactly that, imo, and i think there’s a decent semantic problem at the heart of a lot of denial / conflict about it. i’ve constructed a kind of numbered list of thoughts:

one. “there is no systemic androphobia / misandry, so there can’t be a unique intersection of transphobia and misandry that constitutes something like a transmisogyny”.

i have mixed feelings about this. there are many ways that men are discriminated against in society. to me, understanding the white supremacist capitalist patriarchy as a pyramid scheme of sorts helps; inherently, those benefitting the most will be the smallest group, and it’s best to keep everyone one tier below you infighting to make them easier to control.

looking at the works of bell hooks and emi koyama, i think that men can act and behave in patriarchal ways, in ways that benefit systemic oppression and violence against women, but i think that thinking of them each individually as agents of the patriarchy gives them, frankly, too much power in a system. your average sexist dude catcalling you on the street is acting out a learned, shitty, behavior, but he’s not an ‘agent’ of anything; he’s another pawn in the same fucked system. think of the poor racist who decries immigrants ‘taking our jobs’; he’s likely to have more in common with the immigrants he’s mad at than the politicians who’ve told him to be mad at the immigrants.

male privilege is another thing; i don’t know that thinking of people as having or holding male privilege is helpful. i think privilege is more of a lack of a thing than a thing itself. do trans men who pass significantly well gain some status? yes. do trans women who are boymoders / not out already have some status? yes. but i don’t think that’s something they are doing so much as it is something that others are assuming about them.

and, as i said above: it’s a pyramid scheme. in a white supremacist society, men of colour are not advantaged over white men, and often not even over white women. we’ve seen this historically, with lynchings, and recently, with ‘karen’s calling the police over seeing a black man in their neighbourhood. white women can and do pose a significant threat to black men through their use of state violence, and their existence as a resource the state wants to protect (sometimes, at least).

so is it all predestined? no, obviously not. you can and should fight against the culture if it is harmful. and for men, the thing is, they are not told or easily shown that the system is harming them as much or more than it benefits them. there are less obvious threads to pull at to start the unravelling of an internalised worldview for people closer to the top of that pyramid. but it’s work many of them don’t do, to their own detriment as much as to the detriment of everyone else around them, especially women and gender minorities.

two. “what you’re experiencing is just transphobia”

i think we can acknowledge that transphobia towards (for simplification’s sake) trans men and trans women. cultural transphobia, as it exists right now, is fairly gendered. when we talk about trans women, we talk about adults, we talk about predation, we talk about perversion. when we talk about trans men, we actually talk about trans boys, we talk about girls, we talk about a ‘trans cult’ or ‘trans ideology’, we talk about hysterectomies at twelve, top surgery at six, hormone blockers at three.

the goal of current cultural transphobia is protecting trans men from trans women, essentially. in their genocide handbook of “enemy must be weak and also strong” they’ve decided trans men are weak, and trans women are strong. note that this itself falls in with the sexist tropes the transphobia crowd often say they’re against.

transphobia, historically, has been about trans women, in the same way that homophobia, historically, was about gay men. not in terms of everything, but in terms of the big cultural boogeymen. sure there were and have been scare campaigns about lesbians and trans men, but generally, the desires of “girls” (counting trans men here for now, sorry guys) were seen as frivolous, unreal. i mean as of what, 2019? we had noted freak ray blanchard theorising about if women even have a sexuality. what society saw as dangerous, though, were men and trans women (who they also saw as men, when it suited them to).

so really, trans men had some catching up to do, in terms of public fear-mongering. and we did! abigail shrier and j.k. rowling both targeted trans men far more squarely than they targeted trans women.

irreversible damage contains a few anecdotes about trans women (iirc, one about a bra store assistant being trans and how ‘dangerous’ it would have been to let her fit a bra on a child, and another about a stealth trans woman who was mad that more visibility was making people start to clock her in the street).

terf wars mentions the ‘lesbians are being called transphobic for not dating trans women with penises’ talking point, and the fear of ‘men entering women’s dressing rooms’. but the part that jk focuses on for a good chunk, the part she claims is ‘intensely personal’, is the idea that if she had come about, she might have been transed! to be fair and balanced, jk rowling also spends some time on her fears about sexual assault from trans women, though not phrased exactly like that. so perhaps she’s more broadly transphobic.

but the latest rounds of libs of tiktok / fox news / matt walsh / etc etc etc fueled transphobia have been aggressively targeting trans men, even if they won’t say that. it’s always ‘children’, or ‘girls’. at the same time that people are reacting with anger and violence towards trans women (and drag queens, though tbf cis transphobes either don’t know the difference or don’t care), people are calling in bomb threats to children’s hospitals and passing anti-trans healthcare bills with the explicit target of stopping young trans boys from accessing trans affirming healthcare. they mention castration briefly, occasionally, but the real target is stopping “girls” from mutilating their bodies.

my point in all of this is: there should be a way to talk about this, about this specific thing, without getting shouted down because of the ‘bad word’ you’re using. bills targeting drag or crossdressing in public are about trans women. bills targeting healthcare are about trans men.

the tl;dr here is that transphobia against trans men and trans women are different. they manifest differently, they are acted out differently, they exist for different reasons. they have different outcomes. but transphobia is a general term, and it would be nice, sometimes, to be able to talk about transphobia against trans men specifically. because there are things that happen or are targeted at them that don’t happen / aren’t targeted at trans women. is that word transandrophobia? idk.

three: “the guy who coined transandrophobia was A Bad One”

this i’ll cover extremely briefly. we’ve had a wave of posts recently saying ‘wow you bullied a random trans woman off the internet for having kinks you don’t like, did you do it? did you save us all?’. these are good posts. however, i think the ‘you can’t use transandrophobia because the guy who coined it has a kink i don’t like’ is uh. perhaps the worst argument among all possible arguments, for the same reason.

i’m old enough to be of the ‘don’t like don’t read’ generation, so uh. that’s what i do. if i follow someone who has a kink i don’t like, i just block those posts / tags. simple. or maybe i even unfollow. but doing a callout because ‘this person has problematic kinks’ is, i think, a bit cringe.

four: “but if we don’t call it x, what do we call it?”

i don’t know. i don’t have a good answer here. generally, i’m someone against using ‘assigned at birth’ or ‘tme’ language because typically i feel those things just serve as another way to misgender people. not that it’s always this way, but i’ve been on tumblr long enough to see people typically just use AFAB and TME to mean FEMALE, in bold bright pink sparkly font.

in some ways, maybe it’s the same issue with “women and femmes / women and nonbinary people” type language. for those things i think being able to self-select into those spaces and conversations is the best, so “people who menstruate” or “people who experience misogyny”, and you get to decide if that counts. but. idk, it’s not very snappy.

“transphobia against trans men” also doesn’t apply evenly, though maybe it never will. there are trans people who are stealth, who are out, who are closeted, girl/boymoders, and on and on. trans people who are ‘fully’ medically transitioned to a binary gender can and do have very different experiences, internally and in the world, to trans people who are nonbinary or don’t / can’t medically transition, or go stealth.

so. idk. i think we can and should have these conversations and others, under the umbrellas that transphobia and cissexism represent. but i also think that generally people talking about transandrophobia or exorsexism are doing so from a genuine place of “i have an issue and i want to talk about it”, and unfortunately i have seen far more people turn off their empathy after seeing A Word about it, in a way they maybe wouldn’t have if the conversation was phrased differently.

transphobia hurts us all. bills targeting healthcare hurt trans women and girls, just as much as they hurt trans men and boys. hell, the bathroom panic around trans women regularly targets cis women. working together is in all of our best interests, esp now.

[phoenixfire-thewizardgoddess]

In the way you said it

Whenever there’s representation In a manner that can be called queer Your tone and comments turn so nasty Your mouth curls up into a sneer It’s in the tone of your voice as you watch it The characters just interact You don’t openly say what you think But empathy for them you lack.

You openly mock certain groupings Try to engage me as well But it’s not funny the stereotyping Your unsaid sentences manage to tell.

Yes two guys on tv had some pet names But so do the straight couples too Exactly what part of their relationship Is considered taboo to you?

We stopped watching more than one show Because of the relationships within Now forgive me, but we’re not religious So you can’t possibly see it as sin In fact when the words you don’t say The laughter that openly rings About two girls in love or a transperson Are the reason no one tells you things.

According to Mulan its not genitals That define if you are a man It’s got more to do with the moon and storms Than what’s inside of your pants.

In the same vein a woman can be Anything she should so choose But neither or both, intermittently Are an identity, regardless of your views.

The person you like, love or lust after Can be any gender at all It’s really up to the individual involved To make that judgement call.

No they don’t advocate child-abuse Nor what the media will say But two legal adults consenting To be together will not ruin your day.

It’s odd to hear the hatred inspired And experience the lack of empathy felt Towards two or more characters in media Dealing with circumstances dealt.

What’s the difference between the relationships If they are straight or something else? The shows all deal with their complex situations And give sappy scenes designed to make you melt.

Where’s the empathy lost on the way, When the young woman decides on a wife Over some boring love interest dude to order Who was clearly stifling her life?

When the character realises his friends are attractive In a more than No Homo way Why the sudden disinterest in watching or reading Anything that features ‘a gay’?

The thing is it’s all just labels designed to Try to categorise what differs from the norm To be honest, it’s a tad frustrating Orientation is not as simple as filling out a form.

Some people feel nothing romantic Others for multiple persons at once Some people want to go out on a picnic by a lake Or hold hands with their love over lunch.

They are not all heterosexuals, Nor, to be fair, are they all cis But the reality is what’s it your business To feel that you can judge them for this.

It’s so tiring hearing what you say, Even more in the derision of tone As if, by pretending to not be disgusted You are doing ‘all those people’ a boon.

Well the reality is passive-aggression... Tends to be more the latter For if it lent more towards the former You should hardly consider this a matter.

Representation is important to those Who rarely ever see themselves in stories It covers more than orientations And frankly, The Straights™ are just getting boring.

Can we take another white couple Another comedic romance Where the premise is either believes in love And all the chemistry of a dead plant?

Perhaps it would be nice for once To hear the ‘B’ word on the screen For trans, POC and Disabled to have Their own heroes, that is the dream.

It’s so easy to mock and despise those Whose life and barriers you cannot understand To understand the fight that has led to, Two gay characters being  able to hold hands.

Tut if you must, but it’s happening There are shows in the world just for those Whose existences and viewpoints are usually marginalised The age of Baby Boomer draws to a close.

In this society different is frightening Labelled as wrong or obscene How can the haters be so sanctimonious Considering their hands are not clean?

The conservatives voted in a man who Who pays people to kiss his posterior But even compared to his childish ilk Your negative commentary comes across as inferior.

So you don’t like to see two people kissing,  Unless it’s a woman and man, Somehow the merest things are sexualised, When you view two women holding hands.

If a man calls his partner babe, Sweetiepie, Darl or Megatron, The reality is, what is it to you, Take a look at your flaws, reflect, move on.

You don’t want to see it in public, And you question their ability to work in certain occupations Many don’t want to have them near their homes And actively exclude their ‘wrong’ neighbours.

How will that look on your final report, Before the great lord almighty? You know, the guy you always tote out, To sanctimoniously condescend ‘righteously’.

All people are humans created equal It is the society you uphold that picks and chooses Who meets the questionable standards Or normality, and decides based on birth, who loses.

You claim that tolerance is key when, Dealing with anyone falling under ‘those people’ Because in your mind and your manner and words, They cannot possibly be equal.

Some see them as sub-human, Because of orientation, ability or skin But the reality is that the hatred inspires Bands the minorities together as kin.

They find their own spaces, and shows and representations Despite the prejudice that suppresses The evidence of inherent biology, their individuality To choose the narrative of psychological messes.

Perhaps you should date a boy instead, Lesbians often are advised. Is this about not having a father figure? Of gay men, a rhetoric that never tires.

Bisexuals, Aces and the followers of Pan Hear just as many ridiculous ideaologies As if the only conceptual path In life, is monosexual monotony.

We ask of the ace what is wrong with them, To not want certain contact or touch, Always ‘jokingly’ stating, That without sex what is the use of love?

The Pan, Poly, Bisexuals prefer certain people Sometimes two or more at a singular time It does not automatically assume adultery, And yet the association is always put to mind.

You laugh aloud at the very concept, Of a woman with breasts, and a phallus instead Of what you think should perhaps be, Situated between her legs.

Likewise when a young man has to wear A binder to suppress his chest, There’s always someone out there who dares Ask why ‘she’ is not in a dress.

Have you ever considered it is not, Nor ever really has had anything to do With your thoughts or beliefs, not your business It is their lives, and does not include you?

From the generation that endorsed a series Filled with abuse and assault Don’t blame the gays for your follies 50Shades was the heteros’ fault.

To be blunt, it is just so tiring To see and hear people of all types demeaned Because the ideology of difference disconcerts you And therefore must be obscene.

The fact is your words do unseen damage To people you pass everyday Mockery and condemnation build walls And turn friends and family away.

How could they tell someone like you, The person with a poisoned tongue That they fit the categories of those you condemn Your words wound both old and young. It is always a joke, a laugh, lighten up now ‘You need to stop being so severe, You and your silly internet culture, Where everyone thinks they’re ‘queer’!’

Back in your day... you start with, As young people more informed roll their eyes You claim that ‘x’ never existed Never considering they did, in disguise.

Even now people cannot be open, Holding hands in public tends to invite Someone lewd to proposition or harass them Tongues wag if you dare stay the night.

So of course historical figures, then and now, From Achilles to Sappho, were very open In fact you’ll find that their lives were revised By the straight archaeologists who cloaked them.

People have been people for a long time, It didn’t overtly matter to many If your husband or wife, or mate for life Wore a toga, dress or barely any.

Recently people have gotten hung up Moreso than ever before About which people you SHOULD be with And it’s really quite the bore.

Men have loved men for forever, Entire societies founded on this ideal And women have loved other women Since before civilisation was real.

Some fall into either category, both at once Or then again neither, these individuals exist And have done so, sucessfully For long enough to do without your ire.

Ancient Egypt buried their people, With great ceremony, purpose and pomp Their transgendered persons always honoured correctly, Would you dare to claim they were wrong?

Evidence and history have heroes,  Many of whom have been ‘revised’ For societal consumption as ‘everyday heroes’ Hiding their non-standard husbands and wives.

Look to Hercules and the Gods of Olympus They had a rolicking gay time But dare ask a historian about certain art And they’ll have heterosexualty in mind.

The purpose is to say, here That the reality is, all through history, we existed... Beyond tv and comics and other media It’s not a new fad that we twisted.

So sneer if you must when the two girls kiss, Or put down your book in disgust When the two male characters realise their infatuation Was not with the anticipated one.

But the story and characters are still there, Whether you choose to consume But perhaps consider this instead, livelaughlover They were not created for You.

To see yourself represented, Be it on page or screen As something other than the punchline or villain Feels like a wonderful dream.

It gives a sense of belonging, Normality in a world that blatantly refutes The existence of people outside of a bubble But some media actively salutes it.

An encouragement meant for the groupings Who need to see those people existing at all, The two boys on a date, the transgirl in a promdress Just humans, seeing, doing, being, normal.

So perhaps before you sneer or comment Perhaps before it’s ‘just joking’ Think about why you are acting that way,  Who, in society or family, are you quoting?

Why would you consider this person contemptible Below even basic empathy and compassion When exactly did hatred and bigotry Suddenly rise into high fashion?

They are not the heroes we need, my friend But they are the representation we deserve So let go of your prejudiced ideals They are nothing you need to preserve.

- - - -

I don’t know what this is, but sometimes you hear old people complaining and it’s so tiring...

[noctomania]

Expression (please excuse the novel length)

I remember back in elementary school when my school district voted on whether to turn my school to uniform policy. It was a public school and i had never felt so attacked before then or felt such a strong opinion about something personally. Mind you, i was maybe...10-12 yrs old (if that). This was a time when my self expression was about to take off and bloom. Suddenly though it was halted by uniform policy. I had heard both sides of it and valid points existed on both sides but i still feel it was wrong to enact because i am an advocate for open self expression (i mean without encroaching on other's rights so like my self expression couldn't be to sit on stranger's laps without invitation for example), mostly because that is how i connect best with people. I can't easily just strike up convo with strangers (trust me i have tried). Back then, it was usually a snarky message on my shirt that would draw people in to talk ("good morning is an oxymoron" or any emily strange stuff for example) I've always relished in (and grateful for) having autonomy over my appearance, it's one of the most rewarding things to be able to almost turn yourself inside out and tell the world "see? Do you see me now?" Whereas uniforms...they felt like a prison, like the erasure of my individuality. It also made everyone else seem so 2-D. Schools sometimes had trouble with students showing up in tshirts advertising alcohol or with inappropriate language on them, which is where I think the uniform idea came through most strongly. The economic hardship was left to the families though. Luckily i was allowed to wear pants and not forced into a skirt. I highly doubt guys would have been allowed to wear skirts though, but i never experienced any situations of that at my particular school. I wasn't social enough though to be sure it never happened. Something similar did occur in my high school years later though but instead of a skirt it was my friend and he would wear makeup but was repeatedly sent to detention for it because it was "distracting" I remember also in high school when i was going to be getting my senior picture which I didn't want in the first place. The senior photos were binary traditional and you had to wear this funny neck garment according to your, or what they assumed to be your, gender. This was all before i knew trans and i just knew i preferred the tux one to the one that looked like a dress. The photographer refused unless i got permission from the journalism teacher and I think the only reason she allowed me was because i was a "good quiet" student. But she was sure to let me know she felt it was highly inappropriate. I remember when i got a free leatherman jacket from being in my high school book club (i am The Coolest™) and we got to choose what name we wanted embroidered on the back. I'm proud to say i have my current name, andy, on it because even though the book club leader/librarian did try to push back on my request and tried to sway me into putting my birth name on it, i was insistent. I still have it and still wear it and otherwise i may not have even taken it. (It was free so turning it down wouldn't have been a big deal to me though I woulda been bummed to not get one even though they kinda forced me to take one anyway? It's complicated and thats all besides the point) See I'm someone who craves expression. I bottle up enough shit. Some things i wanna wear on my sleeves. Or my face. Or my hair. My gender expression has been pretty strong since day one. Not to say I wouldn't or have never gone more feminine in my appearance, it's just to say that i have not been the type to adopt an appearance based on what someone else says i am or should be. I don't feel the need to be absolutely masculine 100% i dont fear that which is feminine or androgynous. And i still remain critical of the unnecessary binary that is forced in societies. The products "for men💪/for women🌼" the bullshit of women just cannot be as strong as men the bullshit that women are inherently emotional moreso then men the absurd concept that to be a woman means to have a pussy and tits and to be a man you needa have a package (because clearly you just lose your identity when you get breast or ovarian or testicular cancer). "SO DUH ABOLISH GENDER SO MEN AND WOMEN CAN BE TREATED THE SAME" To turn a blind eye to the differences and intricacies along the gender SPECTRUM (or any innate identity spectrum) is to pretend we don't all have our own distinctive experiences and issues and is in fact a rejection of them. My gender is expressed how i see fit. Perhaps it is quite masculine and yes i did in fact get some surgery but no surgery is going to turn me cis, no hormones will remove all the experience i had as a AFAB for 20yrs no surgery is going to change my interests. I didn't seek hrt or surgery because of anyone else or to spite anyone or to attack anything, i did it to achieve a sense of Self I had never experienced before due to the limitations of my physical expression. I did it because i know how my mind perceives my body and it's never fit right until now. Like ive been a mismatched set of Tupperware that's finally been organized properly. My lid fits, i am a complete set on my own now, as opposed to trying to fit the mold of other's lids. I didn't change to be someone else, i changed my appearance to match who I Am. FORCED gender roles/expression is detrimental, not because of the gender, but because it's forced; because it's someone exerting (or trying to) inappropriate control where they have no right. Are cisfem who choose to take on the ultimate 50s nuclear family housewife life/look any less valid than a cisfem who refuses to fit any gendered life/looks? Or should both be seen as equal and valid in their accession of and right to their autonomy to identify themselves and express themselves how they see fit without any external criticism/dictation as to what is "right" or "appropriate" based on antiquated and/or irrational factors/ideologies? The point of identity is nobody can tell you what​/who you are. Perhaps they could guess, but that doesn't mean they are right or that they have authority over your identities. it's not a problem that gender exists. It's a problem that is has been monopolized and mutated and mythologized by people (yes of all varieties bc ideologies know no bounds) trying to dictate other's lives. It's a problem that it has been used as a tool to oppress rather than express. I've met just as many misogynistic women as i have men or even trans and non-binary folk. Everyone has the ability to be oppressive of someone else. When you have been oppressed, or fear being oppressed, you might take on an oppressive role yourself as a form of offense before you ever have to face bein on the defense, if you aren't critical of or moderate yourself. Though the effort may come from a place of self-preservation, it can still cause unnecessary harm and even be counterproductive, if not hypocritical. If we approach the problem for what it is (insertion of opinion where it is unwarranted and unnecessary) instead of attacking it's symptoms (gender expression), we will get to the real resolution with less inner-community squabbling. Don't pretend like you can tell someone who they are. You can argue your point without doing this. Don't pretend you are the ultimate source of knowledge for what you are fighting for. If it were all up to you there wouldn't be a movement, just you. Terfs and radfems may believe i should not have transitioned. Perhaps they feel I could have easily just continued to be a "tomboy", as i was frequently referred to as, and just bind my chest for the rest of my life and never feel a real connection with my Self. I would have remained in a state of self loathing and not only forever feeling less than i was meant to be (not because of my female form but because I wasn't able to be my Self) but forever having to face people identifying me incorrectly and always feeling that disconnect in communication when someone rejects or denies your identity. While being trans does still make me (only slightly due to passing standards and me being white) a target for hate crimes, before resolving my identity i was more likely to take my own life on top of still being a target for harassment due to being untraditional in my expression. Me being me, I've never had an issue with bein an untraditional person (very little about me is traditional), but when you have an inner war going on and you know you can do something good about it, I would never sway someone away from resolving that. Honestly i felt more a distance from feminism before transitioning because i never felt right if i tried to "proudly proclaim" bein a woman/womyn. i felt like a fraud which ultimately made me question if i was a feminist at all. Like I didn't not like women, and i was/am a proud feminist, i just didn't feel as if i was a woman and felt more like i was lying when the words came out which did to an extent feel like a form of betrayal to women and it wasn't til much later i understood it wasn't. I tried various forms of gender expression as a female but even in the best case scenarios it didn't sit right. Not knowing who you are foundationally makes it hard to know how you feel about others or how to accept others. Empathy and compassion require a certain level of knowing yourself so you can identify with another on our human level. If you're at fault with yourself it can be hard enough to love yourself much less anyone else. I feel trans-exclusionary feminists are stuck in that same stage i was stuck in when i was resolving my gender identity. But removing the issue from the context of gender kind of helps. Its not the identity itself that i hate, it's being forced into an identity i am not, never have been, and never will be. Imagine being forced to be a different person. How people identify you is all wrong and any time you try to assert your identity it is rejected. It's not an identity you can change (like a religion or a political leaning that may or may not change), but it's something not readily apparent, or is obstructed by the predisposition people may have about you based on what they see you as. You can call a bear a silly man who needs a shave and wears a fur coat but that's not going to change the fact that the bear is a bear, not going to change the bear's needs or instincts (reference from The Bear That Wasn't) I guess my point overall is: distinctive identity titles are born out of necessity, because thise identities exist. Identities also present the opportunity for us to recognize one another's differences and to learn how we connect and where we lack understanding of one another. Identities allow us short hand how to express ourselves verbally, yanno when interpretive dance is out of the question or inapplicable. Expression of identity is integral to feeling a sense of Self, to be able to trust yourself, and to be able to trust others. Identity should never be erased whether it be gender, sexual orientation, race, ability etc. Before I understood my gender identity i was compensating my lack of masculine appearance with overly-masculine attitude instead, which inevitably lent itself to toxic masculinity. I would catch myself acting that way sometimes and earnestly didn't know what was wrong with me. Now i know i was insecure. Now, I'm much more neutral and comfortable in my attitude since I'm not feeling the need to compensate for my appearance with my attitude. My transition was good for me and those around me. It allowed me to be a little less concerned with my issues and more concerned with the issues of a wider community. So I know this is long and I'm sorry. I don't expect anyone to have read this and i doubt that anyone who disagrees with me read it thoroughly (3 times top to bottom) as they should (to avoid making themselves look impulsive and irrational or cherry picking) before asserting their opinion, but here it is now and it's not goin anywhere. Thank god it's my weekend coming up... (Please if you respond do so respectfully. If you only wish to spit at me, do so in a direct message and leave the notes on this open for respectful conversation/debate, thank you kindly!)

[necro-romantic]

Experiencing oppression bc someone Thinks youre a cis woman doesnt make you a woman- that would be like if you got bullied for being gay but werent gay; it doesnt suddenly make you gay. Trans women who pass experience misogyny bc people assume theyre biologically female; trans women who dont pass experience discrimination as feminine men, bc people know theyre biologically male. I just cant understand defining gender based on anything but biology when its literally the only difference

the difference is a person who isn’t gay but is bullied for it is not gay, does not identify as gay, and is not having the internal experience of being gay, whereas a trans woman is identifying as and having the internal experience of a woman, viewing herself as a woman, and internalizing societies ideas about women. 

trans women who don’t pass do Not experience discrimination as feminine men, because i hear people i work with talk about them and it’s never “oh, look at that feminine man, how gross” it’s, “oh, that person is trying to be a woman and “failing” and it makes me uncomfortable” 

people i’ve met can tell the difference between a feminine man and a trans woman who doesn’t pass and they react to them completely differently. one reaction is based in homophobia, and one is based in transphobia. they are not the same. 

i know intersex people are a minority, but if you think gender is based on sex, is a person born with internal testes and xy chromosomes, but labia and a clitoris a man or a woman? if they’re raised as a woman are they a woman? if they’re raised as a man, are they a man? i realize these are rare cases, but it does mean gender isn’t always biology, because sometimes biology is more complicated than that. 

[kemifatoba]

DADDY | hoe__mies is Berlin’s new, seriously woke party series & community space

Gizem and Lucia aka hoe__mies have created a party series and community space that is centered around women, non-binary, and trans people and primarily caters to an audience of colour.

The feel-good space was born out of a feel-terrible moment: an argument Gizem had with the organiser of a party that was branded as being all about female empowerment, but which boasted an exclusively male line-up and a dude-heavy audience.

When Gizem wondered aloud why women weren’t included if it was advertised as being a celebration of womanhood, the organiser retorted “If you don’t like the way I’m doing this, maybe you should do it better!” She did, bringing Lucia on board too — now people book hoe__mies for gigs, parties and they’re getting so much work it’s “become like a part time job.” Colour us intrigued: DADDY met up with Gizem and Lucia to find out more.

How did people react to you starting hoe__mies and how has the platform impacted your lives?

Gizem: I’d say 98% of the reactions were positive. People were really thankful that we created this kind of space and that we think so inclusively. In our description we address genderqueer people and women over and over again so that people actually feel welcome and represented. There were a few sceptical voices, mainly male ones, who didn’t think that we could pull this off or that we could actually DJ — and when we’re playing there’s always someone coming up to you to look over our shoulder to check if we’re doing it right.

Lucia: I’ve got a lot of gay and queer friends who love hiphop but don’t got to the club nights because they don’t like the vibe there. After Gizem told me about her experience I thought that this could be an opportunity to organise an event where everyone feels comfortable and can enjoy the music equally. hoe__mies got big quite quickly and has become like a part time job now. We prepare for gigs, organise parties, and we also have ideas for things we’d like to do in the future… It really had a big impact on our lives and it’s exciting.

What’s the best and what’s the worst thing about being a young woman of colour in Berlin?

Lucia: Being exotified [is frustrating]. People always want to talk about this “exotic” thing but they aren’t interested in me personally. They love to be around you because it’s cool to have Black people at parties. There’s always this expectation people have of me – they expect me to dance in the middle of the dance floor, be loud and entertain everyone, and I’m not that kind of person. On the other hand people really are interested, they want to know what you do and you get more attention than others, can express yourself more and maybe have more of a chance to do what you like.

Gizem: Everywhere we go, we look different from the white norm and I felt that a lot when I was in Mexico studying. Physically I looked like everyone else there and that really was nice. Coming back to Germany, from the moment I arrived at the airport, it was immediately awkward because there was racist stuff happening — not to me but a group of people next to me — and I thought that this wouldn’t have happened in Mexico. What’s really nice about being a woman of colour is that you have so many sources to develop your personality from. I have so many influences from my family and my “culture” and I think that these different experiences shape us and makes us more sensitive.

Gizem, you’re writing a thesis on the German hiphop scene – what’s your insight so far?

Gizem: So far I’ve interviewed three women who have had an impact on different aspects of the hiphop scene: a producer, a DJ and a rapper. Some of them are really hopeful and positive about the scene becoming more inclusive but others are reproducing the patterns that keep women out. I think internalised sexism is a real problem that needs to be addressed and worked on. There’s a lot happening at the moment. There are people like SXTN or Haiyti who just seem to be having fun doing what they do and people really like that. Especially SXTN who are using terms that are offensive, the same terms men are using, but suddenly when women use them it becomes a problem and people are outraged and I think that’s why people are talking a lot about these two women. I think that they also have a degree of privilege because they are attractive. That’s a game changer in a way. Women are always measured by how they look, and it helps to look good. You might have a better chance of succeeding in that business.

Lucia: At the same time you’ll be reduced to your looks and people won’t take you seriously and will use this as an excuse as to why you are successful. It might help your chances, but you’ll also have to deal with other problems.

Gizem: Yeah, you always have to prove yourself, also in the DJ scene, which can be quite exhausting.

And what stereotypes do you have to deal with in the city’s creative scene?

Gizem: People often say things like “They only let you play because you’re pretty”. I like to play hard stuff sometimes, like real gansta trap shit and people will be like “Oh, she actually plays that, she listens to that? That’s kinda rough for her…”. They will be surprised about that. Lucia has experienced that a lot in her acting career…

Lucia: Yeah I had a lot of requests like “Can you act with a French accent?”. I’ve been offered roles where I should play a refugee coming from Africa who stole something and then got sent back and I thought that it’s such a racist cliché. I stopped acting because I was so tired of all these requests that are always about race. People tried to explain it by saying things like “we can’t put you in that role because then we have to explain why you’re Black and in Germany and why you speak fluent German” – something that isn’t seen as normal in Germany. I think it’s a little bit different in the music scene but still there’s this focus on the US and UK and I find it a bit sad that we don’t try to create our own thing. We aren’t English speakers and it’s weird when German people sing these lyrics. I think we should focus more on who we are and what we have instead of trying to be something else.

Gizem: One thing I’d like to add is that women are getting paid a lot less for DJ jobs. I always see that in comparison to my boyfriend who also DJs. I see the offers he gets —  he tells people how much he wants and everyone’s OK with that but when I make demands I always get the response that it’s not negotiable.

Lucia: The other thing is that as a woman, you always do the opening or the end, you never get the main spot. There are so many events in Berlin, like fashion shows, PR events or even at McFit, where there are always the same DJs playing. And I always wonder why they don’t ask women to play.

Is that why you decided to turn hoe__mies into a community platform rather than a party series?

Lucia: We started to function as a label because people started asking us if we’ve got female DJs they can book. We’re sort of like a connecting point and we’d like to extend that.

Gizem: We thought a lot about the name and it took us a while to find it. I think what’s so great about the name is that it takes away something from people who shame certain lifestyles and transforms this into something positive. I remember from school that it was the worst to be called a slut or a ho and I think it angers the people who we take the term away from, who are mainly cis men. Some people were upset that we called ourselves that and we were like: Why not? What’s the big deal about it?

Who inspired you to start hoe__mies? Anyone you want to give a shout-out to?

Gizem: There’s a London-based collective called Pxssy Palace who we took inspiration from when we came up with the T&Cs of our party. They’re great and they know and support us.

A person that had a really big influence on me was Nelly, a classmate from Mexico who wrote about the hiphop scene there. My whole approach that I’m taking with my thesis is inspired by her. Leila, one of my closest friends and a colleague at i,Slam, was really supportive too. And then there’s Anne Wizorek who I did #ausnahmslos with – she was the first person to interview us because she wanted to give us a platform

Lucia: My friends from the queer scene have really influenced me. Transgender people, for example, who fight to be accepted every day. When someone is making a change or transformation, that always inspires me. Or the gay scene, especially women. Often guys don’t accept it when a woman says she’s gay. These people who always prove others wrong inspire me.

What’s next? – both for hoe__mies and yourselves?

Lucia: I was always into music and really appreciate that Gizem got me back into it through hoe__mies. I want to focus more on that and become a better DJ because I want to be good at things I’m representing. For hoe__mies we want to become bigger, support artists and live performances because there are female artists who want to perform and we’d like to give them a stage – also from other fields. We want to support and represent everyone and be a platform for talented female artists.

Gizem: It’s important for us to be more than a party. We want hoe__mies to be a community of people with shared interests and shared identities. We want to help gain access to a certain field or a certain scene these people would be excluded from. We made that clear from the start that we want to cooperate with different kinds of artists and support them. We’d also like to start workshops where people learn how to spin and pass that knowledge on. I had the privilege to study something that got me really far personally and career-wise and that’s also an idea that we have: to create a learning space – but that’s still a long way off. We’d like the next party to be an open air thing because it’s nice to do that in summer — so if someone reads this and has ideas for a location, please let us know!

One last question: When people in a creative context answer the question why there aren’t more PoC involved in art shows etc with “We couldn’t find any?” – what do you think of that statement?

Lucia: It’s laziness! You can do your homework, just sit down.

Gizem: Exactly. If we can find all these female rappers, others can find them too.

This interview has been edited and abridged.

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