#“relationships” isn't intended as the romantic sort in this case

[autumnalwalker]

Themes Tag Game

Thank you for the tag, @druidx. Always fun to do a new game (even if it took me over a month to get around to it).

Rules: Bold the themes that appear in your WIP (& italicize those that are loosely covered) then tag 10 people.

Doing this for The Archivist's Journal. It's long enough that it touches on a lot of things tangentially

addiction | beauty | betrayal | change vs. tradition | chaos vs. order | circle of life | coming of age | communication | convention vs. rebellion | corruption | courage | crime and law | dangers of ignorance | darkness and light | death | desire to escape | dreams | displacement | empowerment | facing darkness | facing reality | faith vs. doubt | fall from grace | fame and fortune | family | fate | fear | fear of failure | free will | friendship | fulfilment | good vs. bad | government | greed | guilt and forgiveness | hard work | heroism | hierarchy | honesty | hope | identity crisis | immortality | independence | individual vs. society | inner vs. outer strength | innocence | injustice | isolation | knowledge vs. ignorance | life | loneliness | lost love | love | man vs. nature | manipulation | materialism | motherhood | nature | nature vs. nurture | oppression | optimism | peer pressure | poverty | power | power of words | prejudice | pride | progress | quest | racism | rebirth | relationships | religion | responsibility | revenge | sacrifice | secrets | self-awareness | self-preservation | self-reliance | sexuality | social class structure | survival | technology | temptation and destruction | time | totalitarianism | weakness | vanity | war | wealth | wisdom of experience | youth

Passing the tag to @rickie-the-storyteller, @writernopal, @writingpotato07, @ceph-the-ghost-writer, @papercutsunset, @sarahlizziewrites, @cljordan-imperium, @nightshadetheghost, @kahvilahuhut, @void-botanist, and an open tag for anyone else who wants to do this.

[rin-hanarin]

I realized that I've never addressed the elephant in Lucanis's room, also known as his romance plot, as a "Had been delusional about him for months before release" individual, so here's a surprisingly long rant/summary of how I felt about it in the process of playing the game.

As a Rook de Riva player, I obviously loved "Coffee with the Crows": we met Illario, joked about haha three Crows talking about nothing, talked business, Rook and Lucanis had a nice moment getting to know each other better outside of being teammates, Rook de Riva's background was acknowledged again, it really felt like a nice bonding moment, right?

Thennn a whole lot of nothing happens during any of the conversations between them, huh. Lucanis doesn't acknowledge flirting, which is fine, take your time bud, you'll get there; you keep pushing being supportive, he ignores you, you deal with his personal stuff for him one (1) time, and in my case he then proceeds to ignore Rook for 10+ hours of pure game time while busy talking to Neve at every opportunity until I finally get one (1) dialogue option to "express romantic interest in Lucanis".

And let me express my honest innermost feelings on the matter:

Not only did it feel like Lucanis genuinely couldn't care less about Rook even as a friend, it also felt like Rook was forcing Lucanis into something he simply wasn't interested in and that we were just getting in the way of his relationship with Neve. It was genuinely unpleasant to experience in a videogame that is supposed to be wish fulfillment and whatnot, and let me tell you, it was especially jarring because Dragon Age games also have a tendency of occasionally making you feel like the most special little protagonist known to Thedas, at the very least to your companions who you're supposedly building bonds with.

I loved hangout events in this game, too, I was so happy to just have these conversations about whatever with companions, have these little one-on-one moments with them that genuinely felt like walks with friends (especially with my bro my bestie my homie Davrin), and with Lucanis it started and ended with the coffee date. His fears and doubts about Rook later are never addressed, and lol lmao even, yeah, why would they be, when it feels like he barely acknowledges Rook exists outside of accompanying him to deal with his problems, none of which need Rook there? There's no reason outside of gameplay for him to ask Rook and not, say, his favorite Neve he talks about everything to? Somehow a lot of times when I hoped for any sort of dialogue with him, I was met with him talking about something very personal like his current feelings about Illario to Neve, like, isn't Rook supposed to know anything about anything, or are we just his convenient weird coworker he sometimes asks favours from?

We persevere though and keep supporting Lucanis, and can you take a wild guess what was waiting for me after like 40 hours of the game and after the infamous "kabedon assassin style" scene? Yeah bro, Lucanis just happened to talk to Neve. I wish I was making this shit up. My coping strategy was to come up with an entire jealousy subplot for my Rook because if I have to feel like I'm in the shittiest unrequited situationship of a triangular shape, I might as well do it on my own terms, right? It feels petty and stupid because as a player I like Neve, too, she's one of the coolest (no pun intended) characters, but as Rook, and Rook de Riva making an obvious choice especially? Yeah, let's just say this relationship fucking sucked for a while.

So after many trials and tribulations we're finally back with Inner Demons, and yeah, Neve is there again, I couldn't even give a shit at that point, and I'll be real here, the locking in didn't feel like we went through angsty slowburn or that we earned Lucanis' trust. Remember DA2's Fenris situation? Because I suddenly did, and surely one of many, many Neve banters I had to eavesdrop on could be sacrificed to have one or two banters that acknowledged Lucanis's anything towards Rook at all?

Also, Spite? Spite seemingly likes Rook more than Lucanis does. In between "It's so over" and "We're so back" in the Fade Ossuary it feels like somehow Rook gets more bonding time with Spite, which is kinda crazy to me.

We are so back though! As I mentioned, I was a "delusional before release" individual, I am perfectly capable of filling the gaps and extrapolating meaning from implications, and here's where one of the most infuriating things is: the rest of the romance is good, too! I can write whatever the hell I want between the beginning and the end of it, but like, why should I? How should I go about it, when in my game I was under the impression that Lucanis would rather just spend time with anyone other than Rook for seemingly no reason in particular, because there's simply nothing there? The fact that none of my pre-release ideas or comics even necessarily contradict anything about Lucanis or his romance as it is now is more telling than impressive honestly.

So where do I land with this exactly? Well, mostly in the glorious Fanon Land where I've been making my silly comics the whole time anyway. The highs are high, I love what they did at the end and how stable, protective and devoted Lucanis is, but the lows made me salty as shit and I wish I didn't have to feel that way to begin with. I wish I didn't have to connect the dots and joke about how badly Lucanis sucks at this and "Let's go girl give us nothing." And yes, I know about writer lay-offs, rewrites, restarts, etc etc, and it's a miracle that this game came out at all, but it hardly matters when you're just trying to do the good old datesim part of a Dragon Age game and end up feeling like a third wheel while trying very hard to get anything out of the character you're interested in.

[0daylighthours0]

(part 2) A Deep Dive into Milkvan and Byler's Development: If Milkvan's Destined Endgame, Why's it Written Like This???

The decision to confirm Will to be in love with MIKE is wild, and I'll tell you why.

When you add a third party to a t.v show relationship, if the first relationship isn't perfect, people gunna start rooting for the third party. Take Stancy for instance.

Throughout s2, we got the vibes that Jonathan held feelings for Nancy. This was clear. But Nancy was still with Steve. This means, in order for us not to sympathize more for Jonathan, Nancy and Steve gotta be ✧ tight ✧. I mean, their issues must be kept at a low, and at the end of the day it's gotta be clearer to us that Nancy does in fact love Steve. Welp, that wasn’t the case. Stancy's relationship ✧ struggled ✧, justifying intimate moments between Nancy and Jonathan - making us feel as if he'd be better for her after all. A smart writing choice, as Duffers intended Jancy as season 2's endgame pairing.

Now, I'd like to point out the foreshadowing of this development.

Come the wrapping up of s1, and it seemed Nancy had retreated back to Steve.

They'd clearly reconciled and - to an outsider - all would appear to be going smoothly. But us as the audience know that not to be the case.

One reason? Well, she'd just shared a suggesting moment with Jonathan.

So our minds weren't on Steve and this show of his with Nancy. Rather, we read into Nancy's slight discomfort, and wondered if perhaps she'd prefer being with Jonathan instead.

This was of course intentional. I'd like to briefly bring to attention the similarities in these moments to ones at the end of s3 - between Mike and Will, and then Mike and El.

Here a conclusion to milkvan's seasonal drama is made, them seemingly staying together, parting on good terms. Hm. And milkvan's moment is.. kinda like stancy's. They got back together because, well, El said she loves Mike. And Steve loves Nancy. And Mike loves El right? The way Nancy loved Steve- But just, coincidentally, we have byler's reconciliation too.

This came before the guy's makeup with El, because, why? This was quite the interesting decision mates. It means that whilst he spends that moment with his girlfriend, our minds are fresh off of Will. People might read into the way he's acting in contrast, just maybe, the way they did during stancy. And people did. That's a bit of a fumble on the writers' part, if you ask me. I know you're trying to let us know that Mike's now on good terms with both members, and his and El's goodbye needs to be the dramatic finishing of the season, but, man, did byler even have to make up at all here you guys? I mean this miscommunication of theirs lasts through to s4 (just like janc-). Why not sort their good terms out later or earlier on, so that we have more mindspace here to focus solely on milkvan, our main main? Or at least, why not just have Mike apologize to Will and be done with it? He could even apologize alongside Lucas, making the moment less personal. And Will could simply forgive him, give a dudely pat it out, and that's it. We wash our hands.

But nah. There's this electricity in the air. The swelling music, the prolonged looks, this doesn't.. seem like a simple make up. It's startlingly short, making us feel as if there have been things left unsaid. And that line,

".. Not possible."

It's so... implying. What do you mean? Why are you looking at eachother like that? What am I meant to get from this scene?

And it isn't a closing reconciliation either, they haven't properly ended their season's drama. I mean no one even apologized for the argument, we're just sort of left with this. Left with the hint of a story that might be further explored - their moment coming off more as anticipation for what's to come than a conclusion. Maybe just a bit like Jonathan and Nancy s1.

But so what? That does not have to mean anything romantic between them is to be told. After all, El just expressed to Mike that she loves him. This means that these sweethearts are practically fortold as endgame, right?

Alright I'll stop stalling.

Season 4.

So. Will is in love with Mike now. Huh. Well, I don't recommend this. As I said, you risk people rooting for Will beyond their hopes for Mike and El as a couple. If this is a plotline you desire, it has to be navigated with precision. So this means that milkvan must be on their A game. Struggle between them has got to be handled delicately. As we see in stancy, and as we saw in s3, just making up at the end of it all isn't good enough. You can risk this mistake once, but we must like these guys together throughout season 4, more than we sorrow for Will. Infact, Will's feelings must not be made too big of a deal. Mike and El are going to stay together, so we should feel a bit sorry for him, but not gather any hope that things will actually work out to his favour.

Like Dustin in s2. He sprouted small feelings for Max, and so did Lucas. Lumax were the endgame, so Dustin's feelings were craftly navigated and not made more important than Max and Lucas' bond. We don't really feel that Dustin is in love with Max, moreso that he likes her and has some moments of jealousy aimed at Lucas. Noone really wanted him with her more than they rooted for Lumax, though we did sympathize for him and feel bad for him regardless.

So yeah, this can easily be written out for Will too. If his story's purpose is meant for the exploration of a gay kid navigating a still homoph#bic time, then there's a lot that can be done without even having to spare much screen time between him and Mike. Focus on his fear of judgement from Jonathan moreso maybe, or have Argyle say something - it can be whatever, mention something homoph#bic, mention something not homoph#bic and give Will hope, whatever - which sets off a thought or idea for Will that prepares his arc for the season.

Back to Mike and El - so we want a 'scared to say "I love you"' subplot. That's good, that good. Fleshes out Mike, plays into El's fears. Shouldn't be too hard.

There's already a mild problem though. This plot is playing out twice at once. We have our boy Will hosting this same fear of rejection by Mike - at least that's how things have been shot. His dread is portrayed through his restraint and timidity in revealing his painting to Mike. Will's painting is basically his version of a confession - the guy too selfless, shy and afraid to express his love outright.

So playing out this storyline at the double is.. a choice. I mean, Mike telling El he loves her is a big deal for the milkvans, shouldn't this romance dominate as much screen time as possible in order to be fully pumped up without any sidetracks to other insignificant in comparison feelings? S3 was already quite clumsy, why not have Mike and El's activities soak in all viewers' engrossment without any departures? Maybe spend a bit of time demonstrating how likeable and wholesome they actually are together. Now that we have Will's affection ontop it all, what's important is that Mike and El's camera time spent matters. They can be angsty, they can withhold some misunderstandings, but they still have to be a good. couple.

Oh yeah, also, Mike should blatantly display feelings for El and El only - duh.

.

..

huh ?

huh ? ? ?

[saintsenara]

In the last post you implied that jily fell for each other the moment they met, why do you think this? I never really got that vibe (it seems like they both like each from atleast as early as their 5th year) but I could be missing something here.

thank you very much for the ask, anon!

for the simple reason that both lily and james choosing to be so bothered by each other the second they properly meet is a very good sign that each considered the other to mean something significant to them from the off.

after all, if lily considered james to be completely uninteresting and unworthy of her time... then she wouldn't have involved herself in the dick-measuring contest he, snape, and sirius get into on the hogwarts express. and james wouldn't have felt compelled to be rude about her - in a way, let's be clear, which he intends her to hear and to know is directed at her - while she's storming out of the compartment with her nose in the air if he didn't think she was worthy of his attention either.

this doesn't mean that what each of them felt for each other was immediately romantic [after all, they're eleven...], but that sort of prickly, "no, obviously i don't care about james potter! i hate james potter! he annoys me just by breathing!" dislike of someone can [in many cases] be a precursor to love...

[because - of course - the opposite of love isn't hatred... it's indifference.]

and it also doesn't negate the fact that both snape and sirius are directly involved in starting - and maintaining, and escalating - the beef. snape's immediate dislike of james and sirius [and their immediate dislike of him] has that same sense of only being so bothered by someone because they matter to you. the text points this out explicitly - that snape is immediately jealous of james having the "indefinable air of having been well-cared-for, even adored, that snape so conspicuously lacked".

and that james is immediately jealous of snape having lily.

one of snape's great tragedies is that he doesn't quite possess the ability to understand the subtext of lily's relationship with james prior to the breakdown of their friendship - and that this is why james and lily bantering [pretty flirtatiously, to be frank] while james is bullying him blindsides him, making him so angry that he lashes out in the only way he believes could soothe his pain and calls her a mudblood.

it's clear from the princes tale, for instance - especially the bit where they're arguing about mulciber versus the marauders - that snape is trying to needle lily into stating conclusively that james doesn't matter to her [and that he's immensely reassured when she seems to do so], but that he doesn't realise that lily calling james an "arrogant toerag" doesn't actually indicate the indifference he's looking for...

that conversation seems to take place in their fifth year - and snape being worried that james' interest in lily is sexual might very well have only started then - but it has as an undercurrent the heavy implication that snape and lily have had similar discussions before. it seems pretty unlikely, for example, that lily would ask snape "why are you so obsessed with them?" if he'd only just started bringing james and his cronies up with her - and it seems equally unlikely that snape would have felt the need to complain to lily about the marauders prior to this conversation if he hadn't been worried for a significant amount of time that lily was not quite as unconcerned by james as she claimed...

[this - for what it's worth - is why i think the anti-jily "james forced her into being with him!" argument doesn't hold up. james' technique is pretty heavy-handed - absolutely - but he behaves the way he does because he's noticed that lily not only reacts to it, but that she reacts to it in ways which aren't boredom, sadness, or fear. and she does this - of course - because james sincerely interests her.]

and - while this comes with the risk of undermining what i said yesterday - it's striking that this is exactly what happens with ron and hermione. while their friendship establishes itself very differently to james and lily's - and while the course it takes towards romance is also very different - that same "no of course i don't care!" interest in each other is present from the get-go.

i don't think this is because jily and romione are intended by the doylist text to be parallels so much as i think that it's a way of conducting interpersonal relationships that jkr is clearly fond of in her own life [which is due both to her own personal idiosyncrasies and the cultural context in which she lives - insulting people you care about is the british love-language, describing a man as an "arrogant toerag" is practically writing him romantic poetry].

but i do think the fact that it turns up in how both couples are written - particularly since the doylist text thinks that james and lily were a perfect couple, even if its readers disagree - is intended to show that, in both cases, the fact that it was irritation-at-first-sight meant it later turning into true love was inevitable...

[dust-jacket-analysis]

With the recent potential developments in the My Hero Cannon lately, shipping discourse is at an all time high. Spoilers, by the way.

Izuocha is allegedly made canon in some sort of final chapter of My Hero. And the Togachako and Bakudeku shippers are screaming, crying, throwing up. The Izuocha shippers are ecstatic, and everyone else is watching this absolute dumpster fire of a situation develop. And with this all, some feelings have been spun up. So I'm gonna talk about it.

First and foremost, Izuocha was always going to be canon. Sorry, not sorry. It was implied from the get go. Right off the bat a mutual crush was confirmed. While it focused more on Ochako's feelings, Deku definitely felt the same as the series progressed. All the blushing and awkward tension was there. And I say this not to invalidate the other ships, we'll get too that. But because this is pure fact I want established.

Now, it being well written, is another story. Obviously My Hero was never intended to be a romance. It is a Shonen anime, mainly action. While also making social commentary on corrupt governments, and discriminatory social systems. Those were always the main themes and points of the series. With Bakugou and Deku's complicated dynamic being second to that, and everything else prioritized after this. so naturally Izuku and Ochako's romantic relationship would not be as focused on. Hence why it's writing is not as good. It's just important to clarify this.

Which brings us to my actual main gripe with the whole situation. The way this fandom is invalidating not only just shipping, but relationship dynamics as a whole. And I've seen this with a LOT of fandoms. People tend to find they're OTP and stick to it. Buying their heads in the sand like Ostrich's when it comes to any other dynamics those two characters may have. People will say "My ship makes the most sense, and all the other ships are ridiculous," or, "I can't see them being anything more than platonic. My ship however, is meaningful and romantic."

That all lowkey pisses me off. Because when pushing that we forget a key detail of the human experience. As we go through our lives we meet hundreds of people. Form hundreds of group and individual dynamics, forge relationships with these different people we meet.

It's the beauty of being creatures with consciousness. Because we don't just meet someone, breed and die. We meet so many people who are all unique in their wants and desires. Different life goals and motivations. Different experiences that've shaped them.

Toga met Ochako. A girl who understood her more than anyone she'd met before. Who didn't see her just as the villain she'd become, but the girl she'd been and was still. A connection that meant something. But she also had the League of Villains, and Twice. People she'd found home and family in. As twisted as it was. Another meaningful connection in her life.

Bakugou Deku's dynamic is a huge section of conflict throughout the story. Despite that though, through all their ups and downs, they help each other grow. Become better Hero's and, in Bakugous case specifically, better people. It's meaningful. But Bakugou also meets Kirishima. One of the first people to ignore his threats and anger, her shouting. To put himself next to Bakugou and say "I want to be your equal. Your friend." And Kirishima plays a big role in softening Bakugou. And Bakugou helps Kirishima with his confidence. It's meaningful.

Just like how Deku and Todoroki's dynamic is important for both. Deku helps Todoroki to understand he does not have to hide parts of himself to spite his father. "It's yours! Your quirk, not his!" It's a huge break through for Todoroki. And in turn Todoroki is one of the people that helps Deku realize he can ask for help, he can lean on his friends. That needing support isn't weak (a lesson Deku also helped him learn), and that it doesn't make you a bad hero.

And Deku and Ochako. She's one of the first people to truly believe in him. To look at him and say he will make a good hero. One of his first friends. And Deku helps Ochako in that same way. He also inspires her to work harder and eventually she realizes she wants to be a rescue based Hero.

But Ochako also meets Toga. A girl cast out by society for her quirk, which she uses unashamedly. It helps Ochako see villains in a different light. One of empathy and understanding. While she still wishes to hold them accountable, she now sees the circumstances for how villain's are made. And she makes it her life to help other Children with quirks like Toga's to not become villains through quirk counseling. It's meaningful. All of these different dynamics shape the characters in different aspects of their lives and personality. Each dynamic is important, just as much so as the next. Whether platonic, romantic, or otherwise. They mattered. To invalidate that because it's not a ship you like is asinine.

Also, people can fall in love with more than one person. Toga fell in love for both Deku and Ochako, on different levels. And I argue Ochako did the same. Deku can love Ochako, Bakugou and Todoroki too. Bakugou can love Deku and Kirishima. People can fall in love more than once, regardless of who ends up with who.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what's canon. It never has. Fandom has never cared or let it hinder the way it operates on tumblr, ao3, etc. You still get meaningful dynamics in the source material. Relationships that shaped the characters and their story.

[dutchdread]

What response do you have to that one quote(I think it's from an ultimania) where it basically says: "Cloud has complex feelings for Aerith, he had a bond with her that was different from the one he had with Tifa."?

Obligatory "spoilers for rebirth" warning. I think that is very accurate. One of the problems with the LTD is that it tends to equate all types of love. In particular it pretends that all love is romantic. I think a good starting point for answering this question is to read my article "what is love, baby don't hurt me". And "Do I think Cloud had romantic feelings for Aerith? Plot twist: Yes" if you want a bit more nuanced take on what I think about Cloud and Aeriths relationship. I think after Rebirth we can stop pretending that Cloud isn't romantically in love with Tifa, he literally kissed her. People can pretend it's optional but that is missing the point of these scenes, which are intended to give insights into the nature of the relationships between these characters. Regardless of which date you actually unlock, if you maximize your affection for all the characters you will have a Cloud who, if asked to go with any of the characters, would react the way he does in the high-affection version of that date. That means that even in the universe where Aerith asks Cloud on a date, and he decides to comfort her by holding her hand, that SAME Cloud would have kissed Tifa had she been the one to ask him to go with her. These are not two time-lines, these are two "what-ifs" concerning the same person with the same emotions. Similarly, the same Cloud who kissed Tifa would have held Aeriths hand for her. The reason this matters is because clearly Cloud is not the type of person to cheat, this is not that sort of narrative. Nor is he the type of person who would engage in actions that he'd think are a betrayal of his feelings towards some other girl. If Cloud loves Tifa he would not do things with Aerith that he would see as a betrayal of those emotions. Similarly, if he loves Aerith he would not do things with Tifa that he would see as a betrayal of those emotions. We see this several times in the game in fact. Cloud isn't fond of Aerith typifying their Costa Del Sol "date" as "a date", and is very unhappy with Aerith doing something similar in Kalm. And yet Cloud does kiss Tifa, without guilt or hesitation. He tries it in Gongaga, he does it at the Golden Saucer, and he continuously tries to advance his relationship with Tifa throughout the game in general. So given that that's the case, why would he grab Aeriths hand at the Golden Saucer, and in the dream sequence? Answer: because he doesn't think that grabbing Aeriths hand is romantic in the sense that kissing Tifa is. Because these are not the same type of feelings as the romantic type that he has for Tifa, and are therefore not at odds. And what they actually are....is complex. I don't think anyone could really accurately jot down the precise nature of Clouds feelings regarding Aerith, since that is precisely the point. That is why the word "complex" is used in the first place. You have to remember that the situation here is unlike any that anyone would be well equipped to deal with, or has ever had to deal with. We have a Cloud who is not himself, and who has a host of traumas and struggles and very specific afflictions he's working through. Aerith is the person he's bodyguarding, she's a symbol of the planet, she's a friend, she's a cetra, she reminds him of his mother, she's the girlfriend of his best friend, the girlfriend of someone whose identity he has in a vague sense taken on, someone he's having visions off. He finds her annoying, but also likable. But most importantly she is someone who is helping him, and whom he is helping. (continued)

[elkkiel]

on that note, I will now be playing Vore at my hypothetical wedding 😌🩷 and yes, I know that the song, in its overarching/primary interpretation (as Vessel wrote it), definitely isn't romantic.

HOWEVER, Mr. Vessel One Token the First himself intended for his music to be interpreted by the listener in whichever way they relate to it. The anonymity of the band isn't just for the "faceless servants of Sleep" concept. The anonymity also acts as a mirror of sorts for their audience. It allows the listener to not only see the music as "[Vessel, behind the mask]'s story," but as their OWN story. there's no face (and, symbolically, no "real" person) to attribute the lyrics to; there's no one true meaning that can be seen, by the listener, as unique to the lyricist. "Vessel' is a blank slate (or: a medium, mode of delivery, ...a vessel) with which we can feel the music on a truly personal level. (<- like I can't remember the exact interviews/interludes/etc. where this is referenced, but I'm not pulling this out of my ass I promise ;w;👍)

Now, the opening paragraph was just a little silly goofy, obviously. BUT, who's to say that one's personal relationship to the lyrics of Vore can't be interpreted as romantic? If that's how their unique life experience shapes their perception of the song, is that less valid than the "primary" meaning inspired by [Vessel behind the mask]'s experience?

For example, I'm someone who was deeply hurt in a romantic relationship, to the degree that even the thought of pursuing romance feels like a dangerous "unknown" to me. In theory the lyrics could be very romantic in my case! "Follow me between the jaws of fate," "Let's get swallowed whole," "Welcome me in," and even "Are you in pain like I am," can be interpreted in positively. As in, maybe finding love with someone new and letting them in really does feel like stepping between the jaws of fate. Opening up my heart again is so fucking scary, but it's also an opportunity for deeper understanding and room to love in a healthy way. Like I love this person so much, and I want them so desperately (/pos), that I'm willing to be swallowed whole by stepping past my fear into unknown territory, as long as I'm by their side.

That said, you might shake your head and say "Ki you dumb bitch, get some reading comprehension skills!" And I would agree: I am a Dumb Bitch Juice connoisseur, and therefore you are not wrong. But also. We're dealing with poetry, fundamentally. And poetry is inherently subjective regardless of the writer's original intent, or what is clearly the "primary" interpretation of their words. Vessel wrote Vore as a way to explore toxic obsession, but that's not where the story ends once it's enjoyed from a different perspective. (fuck, I learned this exact concept in like a 3rd year comms course, but I can't remember what it's called for the life of me lol)

That extends to all of their music, not just Vore. And, arguably, to music in general. I'll always love and honour all that Vessel has chosen to share with us. The main story of his songs will usually be the ones I default to, because I adore how he explores his own complex experiences and feelings. But, in choosing to share your art—especially with Vessel's philosophy behind music—you choose to engage in a relationship with your audience that allows for it to be seen in new, unique lights. And that's okay! That doesn't devalue anything that Vessel has created. It just expands upon it.

Sleep Token's music clearly brings us together due to how emotionally evocative and deeply relatable the stories are (other than cute guys smooching and being Sillies on stage, buuuuut that's besides the point teehee). It starts a conversation that involves opening up about our deepest hurts, and healing with arms wide open to each other.

Or fuck it, maybe you heard Sugar on tiktok and thought it was surface-level sexy with no nuance in your interpretation. A) that's none of my business. B) it doesn't affect my personal relationship with the music. C) the sleepies still get those streams, and therefore get paid at the end of the day 😌✌️🩷

[stinklebug]

Poking my nose in here like a stray cat that just caught a whiff of fish to go, hiiii, you have thoughts on the fandom's approach to Chai & Peppermint?? (Feel free to DM away if you're worried about discussing it openly 🤣)

i sure dooo! a whole lot. this wound up pretty long (much longer than i intended; i went on a bit of a rant), heh, so i've put it under the cut

i have a Very averse reaction to when people say, "peppermint wants to smash chai's head in with a rock/kill him with hammers/literally any other variation of that in which she wants to hurt or kill him," Especially in regards to people using that for their reasoning as to why they see them as siblings

and after much thought, i realized it's because that literally Isn't Their Fucking Dynamic lmao

the thing is, yes, chai Does annoy peppermint. but She annoys Him, too! she's cocky and smug and gets on his nerves! she's a little shit, too! they're Both shitty to Each Other! but i guess everybody just. Forgot.

plus! yes, they bicker and fight—but as the game goes on, they get on each other's nerves less and less. and yet, people act as though their dynamic stays the Exact same

see, if someone wants to make the claim that peppermint wants to hurt/kill chai, then they better be talking about her at the beginning of the game, because by the End? no! not at fucking all!

even around the beginning, honestly, it's still not really true because she Very Obviously comes to care for him Really Quickly! like, there's even signs of it as early as the end of track 2, when she's so Clearly outraged about the mind control and then later during that same bit when she sighs and her voice gets softer as she says, "just...check this out"

it really irks me when people have peppermint—or any of the others, because i've seen it happen with them, too—constantly be Pissed at chai and have them treat him pretty shitty when they're making content that's set post-game. because by Then, they have changed! not to mention that they're supposed to be FRIENDS! why would they be so awful to him?!

i have literally seen someone have korsica say, "Nice to hear someone with brains talking," upon another character entering the room after having a conversation with chai. and her just generally being weirdly snappish to him for...making a joke.

but. this isn't about those two. it's just sort of related. anyhow.

as for the siblings side of things, i feel like i have to make it Extremely Clear that i don't really care if people see them that way. i mean, i've written writing requests where people ask for that. so.

what i Do have a problem with, is that it's a constant thing in fandoms where people will see two characters who are of the opposite gender who bicker and immediately go, "they're sooo siblings!" so. suffice to say, i was not surprised to see it in this one. however, i am still certainly annoyed by it!

and i never really understood why that pissed me off Until i really gave it some thought, and i realized it's because, truly? it feels like a lot of these people don't actually understand that not every sibling dynamic ever is "i want to beat your head in with a rock" (because that's Always what the dynamic is boiled down to)

sure, that's sometimes the case. but as someone with two siblings, both of whom i have pretty different relationships with and Neither of which are anything like that, it's kind of frustrating to see this generalization. especially when it's fucking EVERYWHERE!

friends, or even romantic partners, can have that kind of fucking dynamic! it's not inherently a sibling thing! and for peppermint and chai, again, it ISN'T EVEN WHAT THEIR DYNAMIC IS!

sigh. sorry. this turned into a whole rant.

[butterfrogmantis]

"Cupid Dodger"

So Cupid is … an interesting concept to think about as a literal personification of romance. As the deity of love one might assume Cupid has total control over affairs of the heart but this simply isn't the case. Generally speaking, the average sentient citizen has enough free will to fall in and out of love as they choose. Cupid has no control over orientations, and whilst his magic CAN be manipulated into things such as love poisons that can on some of kind of surface level 'override' an orientation (see fic: "You Gave Love A Bad Name") It upsets him and the effects are overwhelming for the affected, not natural. Hate arrows are also seen in show.

But as a general rule of thumb Cupid sort of functions similarly to Cadence from MLP; he's the deity of love but he's not going around blasting people with magic left and right. You still have the ability to engage in romantic relationships without his interference.

And more so than that, his normal arrows only really enhance feelings that are already there. If you get hit by one and you're standing next to someone you have no romantic feelings for, it won't suddenly give them to you. If you were standing next to a crush it may boost your confidence and desire enough to act on it. Also being in the mere presence of Cupid is generally enough to cause mild romantic hysteria - his visits to the forest in in the early year become known as 'spring fever' for that reason.

Cupid does of course have poor eyesight. Generally he is trying to help, but arrows miss and bounce off and go haywire all the times and that's always a fun little mishap. But as stated, a normal arrow used for it's intended purpose cannot alter a person's free will. The arrows cannot cause non-orientation aligning attractions and will not work on aromantics - in some cases it may even quite literally repel away from them like same-facing magnets.

Cupid and Archaeologist (c) The Smurfs

Skelly is mine, Spinner adapted by me

[idrellegames]

You've probably gotten a few of these before but my turn for praise. Even as a person who's probably a hopeless romantic I dearly appreciate that Wayfarer doesn't make itself a romance first game. So many IF do that and it makes the game lose any sense of plot and in the worse cases, outright repetitive because the options fail to add any flavor to the rest of the game. Even worse are all the games that sort of 'forget' the other characters are there once you're in a romance.

But what makes Wayfarer even better is the fact you have ace/aro-spec representation that actually matters because people fall into the pitfall of making them a "hard to get/aloof/unaware of anything ever" romance option. Having the ability to make platonic bonds that influence the game just as much as romantic ones and don't diminish aro/ace characters is so nice and I appreciate it so much.

I think this is maybe a good opportunity to riff a little on genre conventions and expectations.

Romance games have their own conventions. They're fun, they're often self-indulgent--the point is to indulge in the fantasy that the MC (and therefor you, the player) is the centre of the universe. Everyone you come across is at least a little bit in love with you. You are special. You are loved. And this is really fun!

Of course, there are romance games that colour outside these lines, but the general expectation is that you will have your selection of ROs, their individual routes, and that the ROs are always going to put the MC first. Having individual routes for each RO usually means that the RO is the star of their route, and all other characters take a backseat because they are the star of their own route. The MC and the romance is the focus, everything else is secondary.

I do really want to stress that there is nothing wrong with this format. It's successful for a reason! The problem comes when you try to apply these conventions to all games, especially ones that do not fall within this genre.

When romance isn't the focal component of the game, the narrative can ring a little hollow if you try try to employ conventions like this. I think there needs to be room for IF games where the MC isn't special, where they are literally Just Some Guy, where the characters they interact with have a range of things going on with them that don't have anything to do with the MC at all. Characters having a life outside the MC is really important for creating deep bonds and meaningful relationships; it's part of having rounded, fleshed-out characters. There needs to be room for conflict and complications, because that's where character development lies.

There's a reason why Aeran doesn't spill all his secrets in Episode 2. If this were a romance game, he might--but it's not and he won't. He is in a significant amount of emotional distress in Velantis and it is not in character for him to break down and reveal everything at the MC's request. Relationships aren't easy, especially when both parties have a lot of growth and healing to do.

And I think, too, when it comes to early IF development it's very easy to want to rush right to the romances. Romances draw in an audience, they give folks something to look forward to. They're the thing you get asks about, which generates interest in your game, and helps you inspiration and drive afloat. But when the focus remains only on that, it's very easy to overlook other necessary narrative aspects. There needs to be balance.

With regards to aro/ace characters - it's easy to fall into tropes for them, even if you don't intend to. There are expectations about what a "good" and "satisfying" relationship looks like in fiction, and aro/ace characters often fall outside of that. To grasp being aro/ace, you have to question what sexual and romantic attraction actually is, which you don't necessarily have to grasp with other characters because the assumption is that it is there naturally.

And even then, aromanticism and asexuality is hard to communicate effectively in fiction without making it feel "lesser". Take for example, Aeran's intimacy scene in Episode 2. There's a difference between the allosexual option (where the MC sleeps with him and they are emotionally and physically intimate) and the asexual option (where they don't have sex, but the emotional intimacy is still there). Even though I was being as careful not to weigh one option over the other, in comparing the two the allosexual version is the more traditionally "satisfying" ending to that arc than the asexual one because it follows conventions. I am personally really happy with the asexual option, but it still feels like it lacks a certain… "oomf", for lack of a better term.

I think this is why it's really important to have substantial relationships outside of romance. When romance and sex aren't weighted as a signifier of the deepest bond you can have with a person, there's room to explore more diverse relationships and how they can take form.

[risingsouls]

[Okey dokey. Now that I've imploded and have picked up those pieces (maybe), I want to discuss what I plan to do moving forward. I want to preface this by saying I do not blame anyone but myself for getting to this point. I didn't follow my own rules, and it has made me uncomfortable with what I'm doing on this blog.

This is mainly about shipping so, if you ship with me, you'll want to take a gander. Under the cut for obvious reasons and to not annoy people.]

So, this has really been a long time coming but I do think I want to reset pretty much all my ships. Again, this is not anyone else's fault but my own, but I've just sort of become bored with what I've been doing in that realm. I went against my own rule of building up ships and allowed them to be rushed instead of built from the ground up like I like. I want to go through the stages of getting two (or more as the case might rarely be who knows) muses into a relationship. I want to see the messy parts. I want to do more than just having relationships be established from almost the jump after one or two small interactions. It's not fair to my muses who are all pretty damn picky. I don't feel like I'm doing right by them by not building these relationships properly. I do love all the ships that have happened, but I'm just not happy with myself for not sticking to my guns about REALLY building them.

What does this mean? Good question. By default, I think this means that I'm just going to wipe the board clean of all ships, save for a few exceptions. I'm also going to lay some ground rules for shipping in general that are honestly more a reminder for me, but also a sort of "this is what you can expect" thing moving forward for my partners.

First and foremost, I'm going to be pickier. I'm not going to allow people to just come at my muses from the jump with anything that's obviously shippy in an established way. Flirting is fine, but if I get something like "I've always loved you" (within reason on this one because that could be interesting) or "we've been married for sixteen years!" when there was no build up to this or they're basically strangers, I'm going to ignore it. Anyone is welcome to come ask me to ship, but, at the risk of sounding harsh, we're BOTH going to have to work for it.

If characters have a history, either in my canon or regular canon, I'm obviously willing to be a WEENSY bit more lenient. For example, Nabooru and Vegeta, in my AU crossover shenanigans, already have some history. Not necessarily as a romantic relationship (unless it's way down the line and even that's not traditional), but they did build some rapport with each other in that realm to some degree. However, since my Vegeta isn't the same as someone else's, I do still want to do the lifting with getting them off the ground. I want to see how it would differ with someone else's Vegeta than with what I've written/imagined in my AU. And I should also disclaimer that no other Vegeta or any other character needs to know Nabooru or any other one of my characters in the way they do in my AU.

This is where I'm afraid I might hurt feelings or lose RP partners, though I really hope I don't as it's not intended. As mentioned, I am starting ships over. I know I told some people recently that I was okay with continuing what we had, but it's become clear that I'm not happy with what I allowed and how I rushed things. Basically, I am very much still willing to explore the ships I already have again! But I do want to sort of start at some kind of beginning. To build it from the ground or close to it up. If you don't want to deal with that, I understand, but I feel this is necessary for me to feel good about what I'm doing again.

I think that covers everything. If you have questions, don't hesitate to pop in my DMs or hmu on dis.cor.d. Again, I'm not upset with anyone at all! This was definitely a me issue that I didn't get a handle on before I let it get to the point it bothered me.

[bokettochild]

ok zoned out and was randomly thinking about legend’s speech in heroes legacy (right before shifting shadow) and how he calls himself an average nobody, and how there’s a theory/headcanon that leg is zelda’s brother or in some way royalty, and how his ‘average nobody’ line could be a tongue in cheek nod to that at the very least, and full on foreshadowing potentially. if jojo goes for the ‘legend is of royal blood’ thing does leg know? is he secretly being sarcastic? or is he in the dark and will we get to see him figure it out

idk why i sent this i just needed to see if anyone else saw merit in this and you like legend so hopefully i can go back to dozing peacefully

He describes all the heroes in simple ways, ways that focus on their origins and not on their achievements. I think JoJo's reasoning for having Legend describe himself in this way is because, unlike so many of the others, before he became a hero he hadn't done anything yet.

Legend's whole existence is as the greatest of the hylian heroes, as per Nayru. He's never been anything other than a hero, because he started when he was still a very young child and thus never had time to try his hand elsewhere. In this talk though, he is saying that the hero can come from anywhere, from any walk of life, and naming the paths the others followed before they were heroes. he, however, was nothing remarkable before he was a hero. he was a random kid in a village, so there's no job he can name like smithy, soldier, or rancher, and there's no unique origin like "from the forest" because he was just an average kid living in Hyrule like anyone else.

Now, if he does know, if he's aware that he is not, in fact, an average kid with average origins, then this might be a subtle sort of joke to himself. Honestly, I do think JoJo intends on having Fable and Legend as potential romantic partners rather than siblings, but let's say her plan IS for them to be siblings, for theory's sake.

If they're siblings, I think it's quite likely they'd have found it out by now. I mean, if there's any proof of such a thing, Fable most certainly would have figured it out and told him. In which case, Legend would be sort of laughing to himself as he says this because he really isn't an average nobody, he's a prince, but for all intents and purposes what he says is also true. No one knows, and thus as far as anyone outside of the castle is concerned, he was just that; an average nobody.

In the case that he doesn't know though, there's a good chance that Legend honestly thinks this way about himself. Sure, he's been lauded with titles and honors, but at his core he still sees himself as Some Guy who just did the right thing, just like anyone should. In the case that he's a prince though and has to find that out, I think it would be sort of earth shattering.

Legend defines himself by his normalcy, it's the only bit of sanity he's assured and he builds his identity around this idea that he's just A Guy, not something amazing or great or profound. To have that ripped away would shatter his entire self-image and make him question everything about himself and his life. Is anything he's ever thought about himself true? are his accomplishments really accomplishments or just him doing his duty by way of the kingdom he was born to serve? What is he beyond his duty and service to the kingdom? Without a crown, he's a Stand-up Guy helping others out. With one, he'd be a Prince serving his people as is his basic duty.

Whatever the intent JoJo has for his relationship to Zelda, I think this line is more a betrayer of Legend's character, but how that self-image will effect him will really depend on where JoJo takes his growth and character arc.

[crossedwithblue]

You're a Mansfield Park fan?

Yes!

IDK if you intended it as such but I am going to take this as a license to ramble about MP on main.

I think the thing about MP is that people (especially people who aren't as quite intense about JA than I am lmao, or who have only read P&P before) often come to it expecting a light-bright-and-sparkling romance like P&P, and are surprised when that isn't the case. Hell, I felt like that too on the first read, because the pop-culture perception of JA is that she was a romance writer first and foremost - but the romantic happy-ever-after is shoehorned into a few paragraphs on the last page or two, and not even shown on the page. MP isn't a romance novel at all - I have minimal English lit knowledge outside of JA, but I'd class it as more of a bildungsroman, maybe? Or a predecessor to those modern Literary Novels all about objectively nasty people being nasty to each other? (More on this in a min) I would very much welcome corrections from people who do know what they're talking about, though!

To me, JA isn't actually a romance writer most of the time. She wrote really good romances because she was really good at characterisation and at understanding and describing how personalities interact to form relationships, and romance is just one type of relationship. It's just the one that pop culture tends to focus on when it comes to JA (I mostly blame Georgette Heyer but of course there's an essay to be written on that too). The only JA novels I'd describe as true romances are P&P, of course, and Persuasion - the rest have romance as just one among many other dynamics as a supporting or side plot, or a tool to reveal characterisation, rather than being the main focus.

Fanny is also a very passive narrator who tends to be acted upon rather than acting herself, which tends to irritate people, but MUCH more on that in a minute.

I think MP is in some ways sort of... cruel. It's certainly the most openly incisive and potentially upsetting, with depictions of complex abusive/toxic family dynamics that could probably come straight out of a domestic/familial abuse/neglect resource. The point where I started to enjoy MP was when someone told me to embrace the schadenfreude - everyone besides Fanny and Edmund (possibly - both points very much up for debate, but they are at least trying their best in the middle of a family that doesn't give a fuck, really) is either an actively terrible person or at least a pretty bad enabler. That did help me find the humour in it, but personally I certainly find it a bit hard to read at times, especially the Mrs Norris scenes. It's not usually my first choice when I want to be cheered up.

This also tends to surprise people, I think, because the pop-culture image of JA, (probably in large part due to her Victorian relatives wanting to protect her posthumous image) is of a twinkly, proper, sweet-natured spinster lady.

Which she was not. Anyone who's seen extracts of her surviving letters knows that she had a biting, frequently uncharitable sense of humour (miscarriage jokes aren't a great look, Jane!) - and we know Cassandra destroyed the really juicy stuff, so that's got to be the tip of the iceberg. This is certainly apparent in all of her books, but can be ignored much of the time - but not in MP, where uncharitable descriptions of awful people are pretty much the core of the book.

Finally, we come to Fanny, the extremely divisive heroine (not least because of that name lol). Personally I tend to imprint on pathetic small girls who need looking after, but Fanny is a massive turnoff (lolol) for many people. I think that's just a personal thing but I enjoy the effect of her frequently becoming another layer through which the narrative filters - JA was a master of free indirect speech, of course, often with deliberate ambiguity about whose POV is being reported - omniscient narrator or character or both in agreement - and if it's a character, then which one? Fanny usually says and does little, but observes very keenly and astutely, which interacts in a really interesting way with the narration.

Also, I'd just like to point out that Fanny is Like That because she is an abuse victim. She may not be the most compelling heroine for everyone, but she isn't going to "just stand up for herself". The one time she does, the Bertrams punish her for it pretty harshly by sending her back to an environment that they know will be bad for her physical health (!)

Bit of a tangent but I am also a huge fan of Jane Eyre and I think there are interesting parallels to be drawn between Fanny and Jane. Jane Eyre is a fiery, independent character who manages to get out of bad situations one way or another, mostly through sheer dumb luck (don't get me wrong I love my girl Jane but How did she leave that parcel on the coach...). If she'd stayed at Gateshead, I could see her gradually getting beaten down until she became a lot more like Fanny - because other than Jane's innate temper, they have quite a bit in common - they both do, when it comes down it, have a very strong sense of self (yes, even Fanny) and the ability to reject things that they know are morally wrong, no matter the potential cost.

That turned into a bit of a defense of MP because I usually hear people dissing it and so that's what I end up thinking about. Lots more to be said on the Crawfords and the Bertrams, of course.

[m34gs]

It's been a while since I watched it but I've been thinking a lot lately about why I enjoyed House of Wax (2005) so I felt like posting about it (since I had to call in today, maybe this will take my mind off some of my pain...). There will be spoilers ahead. And I know lots of people didn't like the movie. I don't care. I did. So, if you didn't or don't like it, move on.

Parallels. I am a sucker for parallels between the antagonists and protagonists. In this case, it's the twins. The main protagonist and her twin brother are travelling with some friends when they end up stumbling on the strange small town. The antagonists are also twins. As the movie goes along, the audience finds out that the sets of twins both had one twin considered the "good twin" and the other the "troublemaker", though for the antagonist's it isn't who you think it is.

Jumping off that point, let's go right into part of the plot twist. See, in the beginning of the movie there's a flashback to a screaming, crying child being mistreated and strapped into a chair with restraints that dig into his arms, but his face is not shown to the audience. There is also an indication that the two children in the chairs were conjoined twins who were separated via operation; leaving one with deformities to his face as they were attached face-to-skull. Once it is clear that the children in those chairs were the antagonists growing up, it is discovered that it was not the deformed brother who was put in that chair. I found that development interesting and rather refreshing because while I understand that humans can be cruel and mistreat people who look different, it is nice for once to not see parents treat their disabled child with malice (not that it's good that his brother was mistreated in that way at all). I just feel that often the way that trope goes, it would have been the other way around and it was refreshing to see it the this way instead. It also made me appreciate the way the filming was done in the beginning, keeping the audience in the dark as to who was experiencing what in their childhood so that when things are revealed it brings a whole new light to the situation and characters of the brothers.

The actual situation. Ok, so it would be terrifying enough to stumble upon a ghost town with highly realistic wax figurines and find out that the guy helping you was lying the whole time, and being trapped in the middle of god-knows-where with him. But then for the characters to find out that all those figures are actual people, who were coated in wax while still alive...that's pretty sickening. I find it fascinating in a grotesque way, and horrifying, which is good because it is a horror movie.

The way the antagonist twins seemed to genuinely care about each other. I don't know why, but seeing them worry about each other and interact like that, even with Bo being really manipulative of Vincent, it was interesting and I liked it. Kind of gave them back some of their humanity. And it again was a great comparison to the protagonist twins as well.

One guy, One girl. The One Guy, One Girl left standing at the end trope usually annoys me because it often has some sort of forced romance to it and I just don't like that. However, this time, it was not romantic, as the last two standing were the protagonist twins: Carly and Nick. I liked the focus on their familial relationship and how they care about each other.

The ending. I really liked how in the end, when Bo and Vincent died, they resumed the same position they had when they were born: Vincent with his face fitted against the back of Bo's head. It's as if they were never separated. I love the way it circles back to their beginning like that.

The third brother. Whether it was intended merely as an open ending, or as a set-up for a sequel, the way the third brother is mentioned at the end almost seems like an afterthought, except the camera then pans to the man who initially sent the group of friends in the direction of the wax town, heavily implying that he is the third brother. I liked it because it tied up a loose end as he disappeared from the beginning and the audience would be left wondering "why on earth did he send them that way, and did he know about the town???", so they answered that question while also leaving the threat of the brothers open-ended. And, if it turned out it was supposed to be a setup for a sequel...well, I've seen worse. As in, I've seen movies that were in no way set to have sequels have more sequels than they should, none of which actually fit together or seem to be part of the same timeline (stares at Texas Chainsaw Massacre - don't get me wrong, I love it, but none of those sequels made a whole lot of sense when trying to put them together with the original).

Anyway, that's my thoughts on House of Wax. I liked it. I really like horror movies 💜🥰

[scoobydoodean]

I think part of the reason Cas hates Crowley and dislikes Benny (at first) so much is that both of them don’t self-sacrificingly resist from ever asking Dean for anything and do pursue a relationship with him (argue over whether it’s romantic, or whatever). I think Cas is sort of unable to handle the transition between the way things work in heaven (heavily regimented, everyone knows who they are to each other) and on Earth (lots of feeling out boundaries). I think the disconnect people are expressing is they don’t understand that Cas’ discomfort isn’t Dean’s fault, even if it is relatable/makes sense from the perspective of a very isolated character who has already lost all sense of belonging and fears jeopardizing that further by asking for literally anything from the few friends he has left. Cas didn’t hide how he felt for Dean’s benefit (though he may have told himself that), he did it for himself. And that’s totally understandable, but like you said, you can’t have a real relationship if you never communicate what you want out of it. And that is again, not Dean’s fault.

That's interesting about Crowley and Benny. This is definitely all a perspective I can respect.

I think from my perspective, what Cas struggled with with Benny early on (and Purgatory is a good example of most of Dean and Cas's problems actually), is that Benny immediately wanted an answer as to why Cas abandoned Dean in Purgatory. Dean actually would have been willing to brush it under the rug (this is the guy who rewrote his own memories of what transpired at the portal to make it so Cas didn't intentionally let go of his hand). Benny was willing to poke into the issue, and he did, in fact, find some hot air in that balloon. Cas and Benny both agreed that Cas was a liability, but Cas did believe in his own integrity (at least when it came to his choices on "The Best Ways To Protect Dean Winchester"—which in this case, involved bailing). The thing is... "protecting Dean" isn't the entire explanation for Cas's actions (see 8.07), and that's why Cas didn't like Benny poking at him. He'd suffered enough hits to his self-image and didn't want to deflate any further (and I'm not entirely sure Cas knows yet why he might deflate further if pressed—but Benny—the person with the objective outsider's view—is shrewd enough). Even if "Protecting Dean" was the sole reason for Cas's actions, it's bullshit anyway, because Cas proves while doing it that he doesn't actually see Dean's opinions and feelings about the best ways to protect Dean as relevant to protecting Dean, and... they are. Not just because Cas isn't always right and needs someone to challenge his perception (maybe abandoning Dean to a pack of gorilla-wolves isn't the best way to protect him... shocking idea I know), but also because Cas isn't capable of understanding Dean better than Dean understands himself, and actually has no idea how badly he can actively harm Dean (the exact opposite of what he is trying to do) through actions that are intended to protect Dean.

Does Cas realize that he treats Dean's feelings as irrelevant when he is off doing Hot Girl Summer things, and that he frequently wounds Dean while trying to protect him? Of course not—which is how he isn't actually Chuck or John 2.0. He's got a lot of issues going on in his life, like being raised in the equivalent of a weird religious cult where free will was frowned upon, losing a lot of his strength over the course of the series which he stocks the majority of his self-esteem into, lots of siblings with very different expectations, speciesism, homophobia (speciesphobia?), repeated lobotomies, and like you said... cultural differences (we actually don't talk about this enough lmao).

As a clarification, what I'm arguing isn't exactly that Cas didn't communicate what he wanted out of the relationship and therefore his stans can't blame Dean for Cas's issues (though I would agree with that argument). I'm actually arguing that Cas pre-decided, without an actual conversation or input from Dean or clarification of what he might think if all the cards were on the table, that a relationship with Dean was impossible. What he wanted was something he could never have. So he specifically did not communicate his feelings. Instead, he slotted himself into Dean's life in a very specific way—and it wasn't in a romantic way (move over, "Dean needs to pull his head out of his ass" truthers—your ideas aren't just patronizing—they're wrong—hope this helps <3). Cas intentionally slotted himself into Dean's life such that he was Dean's guardian, ready to be martyred in his name to achieve sainthood. The object of his affections was Dean Winchester though, not Moloch, so that blood offering wasn't smelling super tasty to his god of choice... and Cas never did quite get that part—that every single one of his blood offerings smelled less like tasty morsels of bacon and pie and more like repeatedly stacking proof that Dean Winchester is poison and anyone who falls in love with him slated for a violent horrible death... his touch is worse than Midas's.

[thepearlescentdragon]

I think either I'm canon divergent, or I misinterpreted the situation with 10 and Martha. Or just interpret it differently than fans. And that may or may not be because of the whole "fictionkin" thing but I don't really know.

HEAVY Disclaimer:

This is a Fictionkin's perspective of a character dynamic in Doctor Who. I am fictionkin, so I'm sharing my interpretation of it from that perspective.

My experience and feelings may not match what was intended by writers and they have no obligation to accommodate it; neither does the fandom. I am aware of this and you don't need to inform me. If this doesn't interest you, just scroll away, it's all good.

I agree with most people that 10's treatment of Martha was utter dogshit. I don't dispute this at all. What I do dispute is the reason, because it seems the fandom looks at it a little differently

Where I agree: On at least two occasions, 10 thrust her into places where race relations for the time/setting could (and often did) make things harder for her, and he wasn't too considerate of how her experience might differ from his as a white-and-human-passing alien.

Her first proper trip, we have Shakespeare calling her questionable things in an attempt to flirt. We also get Human Nature where she's reduced to his maid and babysitter in a racist setting - even 10 as John is wildly racist toward her. And like every other companion, this is all new to her. She's not a seasoned time traveler. She doesn't know the rules or the science, but he brushes off her butterfly effect concerns and other things she has the foresight to at least ask about (where other companions - even Rose - would've acted impulsively about instead)

Where I disagree is on the idea that it was poor treatment for The Doctor to reject her romantic/flirty advances. I think that was understandable. He/I had a good reason to (not that you ever need to justify saying no)?

He'd just lost someone he was deeply in love with to horrible circumstances. He was recovering from trauma and heartbreak, and here comes a new human who definitely got the wrong idea - he was well within his rights to reject the flirting.

Could he have said more about why he was doing this? Sure, technically he could've. But at the same time, no one owes anyone an explanation for why they're not interested in them romantically; a no is a no. Getting rejected isn't a temporary obstacle, it's a door being closed.

Had it happened at a different time, maybe it would've been different. But the circumstances just didn't make it so. And I don't think it was a form of wrongdoing, it's just bad timing and/or bad luck.

Also, I really don't see him learning she's engaged when he and Donna meet with her as "jealousy." I don't think he wanted her romantically. I also don't think he wanted her to want him romantically. I think he just realized, "Oh, it's not just me that moves on when I say farewell to a companion - they also go on and live their own lives when I leave." He's on the other side of the fence now. He knows how it feels to see your friends have adventures with other people without you.

At least, that's how I interpret it. And it's how I remember it. Maybe the writers intended otherwise, in which case I would be canon divergent and that's fine. I just... I don't know. It feels very uncomfortable seeing people insist I was/should have been romantically interested in Martha. In my experience, I wasn't, because I was still heartbroken about yet another heavy loss. I was looking for new distractions, but not the relationship sort.

Maybe canon Doc was otherwise, but I don't know that. I don't know if I can know that.

I know I'm not supposed to "take it personally" when fandoms talk about the media they're centered on, or the characters in them. And I don't! Not exactly.

Because at the end of the day, I know fans aren't criticizing me, they're criticizing the fictional character I just so happen to identify as. And there IS a difference. I identify as him, but the entity they're interacting with in media is not literally me. (I imagine actors might feel similarly, watching their characters get criticized, now that I think about it...)

It just feels funky and I'm still learning how to adjust, you know?