#and twisted it into 'well he cant be that important by virtue of me not knowing him'

[zevranunderstander]

number #1 tactic that people use to not sound as racist as they are when they talk to black people: 'uhh so you AMERICANS need to stop pretending everything is about YOU. why should i know this im not from the us :/' (= is talking about like. a phenomenally internationally well-known black artist)

[prompt-master]

Kazfort -I'm lazy don't mind mi- anon is here

Yeah specific characters to use

Mm

Okay! Let's start

1- Nekomaru Nidai

2- Kazuichi Souda

3- Chiaki Nanami

4- Hajime Hinata

5- TanaKa tHe fOrbidden

1. Im sorry any Nidai stans, but I don't like him. I mostly had a neutral stance on him, but Mechamaru instantly made me dislike him because it broke the fundamentals of the game. His existence really ruined a lot of the enjoyment for me, I instantly felt bored and didn't care as much. I understsnd the whackiness was a hint that the world is virtual, but I didn't care at all when he died in ch 4 and ive always said thats not good in a dr trial.

2. I love Souda, he's an interesting character with a fun personality whos also fun to bully a lil wee bit a lot. My main gripe with Souda is that he is the only survivor to not fit the theme (all the survivors have someone to mourn besides him). Its the only thing i want to change in regards to him. I like the potential he has to grow as well considering his background, so i love to play around with post game concepts for him.

3. I'm going to admit this to you all. At the tender age of 14 when i first played sdr2 i fell instantly in love with Nanami. Yes thats right. I took the waifu bait. But in all seriousness: I really like how Nanami's character gets recontextualized by the reveal that shes an AI. Especially when yoh realize so many of her traits connect back to her being an AI down to her talent. Her role in chapters 5 and 6 completely played with my heart in the best way, and her execution theme slaps a little too hard. My only issue with Nanami is that i dislike the dr3 retcon of her being a videogame AI and instead being a human girl

4. Shit man whats not to love about Hinata. Fantastic protag, fantastic (altho mostly predictable) backstory, fantastic character. I felt completrly invested in his emotional struggle. And i love how they twisted things so that it was HIS game. Yes, he stands for hope just like Naegi did. But its his OWN version of hope. Hinata is a big part of what makes sdr2 so special. I love his realist outlook and attitude, even if he leans to pessemist at times. I just with danganronpa would draw him with 91 cm tits.

5. Tanaka is a good character. But he deserved better in ch4. I wanna preface this by saying i could be inaccurate cuz i black out in ch4 from boredon. But his motivation makes little sense to me. Hes trying to save everyone and trying to show them the value of life and not giving up. They frame it as this noble thing. His actions however contradict nobility. There was no need for two people to die for a sacrifice (which also goes again how the ch says life shouldnt be wasted. Cuz well. A life totallt was wasted) its also not noble since he kept the mystery alive which put the others at risk

I always thought it wouldve been more interesting with a couple of slightly different dirrections. For example, the murder is caused by a lack of judgement on Tanaka's part from starvation. He was trying to do the right thing, but wasn't thinking about how only one person needed to die to save everyone and prove life is important. It could also be explained as a lack of judgement simply by virtue of his character.

Something i really like is the idea that Tanaka believed if there was no good mystery, then the mastermind would not let them go so easily. So he sets up a mystery in hopes to not waste Nidai's life. It could explain why he didn't think of suicide as an option, and why he kept the secret. It also leaves room for some reallt good recontextulation of the trial where we could realize Tanaka was trying to help us catch him the entire time.

Another interesting direction is the idea that Tanaka did not fully understand tbe responsibilty of his actions until after the murder was comitted. He would realize after the fact that if he is executed, his hamsters are left alone without him. After all theyve been through. He suddenly realizes he cant bare that. And so he panics, and has a moral dillema the entire trial. Does he keep quiet and try to survive so he can continue to live for his pets at the expense of his friends lives? Or does he follow through with his plan and allow himself to die so that everyone can get a chance of life but at the expense of his own life and leaving his devas alone? In the end, he can say that he deseeves the execution regardless because of how he nearly let them die, but its Sonia who tells him hes a noble and good person.

Idk, i rareely see people complain about ch4. But to me its a boring victim and a boring killer. The only really interesting thing in the chapter was komaeda

[ruffoverthinksthings]

There's something I have to ask you that has some of its roots far before Descendants, but seriously....wtf is up with Frollo?! I'm interested in his character because of his deep complexities for a Disney Villian (never mind the Hugo novel), but why cant he get a grip on raising children and building a healthy family? Even as a product of the medieval era , that can't be an excuse for his dysfunctional relationships with others(progressive people like Esmeralda and Phoebus existed back then 1/2

Mymain question to you is ,what do you think it is about him that cantsee the pain he causes to claudine/ not esme and the entire HONDcast? What ever happened to him in his childhood ( nature vsnurture), that makes him nearly impossible to reach past his veil ofdarkness. Even in his attempt to redeem himself in the eyes of hisLord, with Claudine, is he forever delusional? Can he change in thisuniverse and what would it take? 2/2

There’sthree key concepts that explain why Frollo still can’t redeemhimself, see the pain, the suffering, the wrongdoing he’s causingin the name of God and his ideas of what is “Good.” These are:

CognitiveDissonance

TheMyth of Redemptive Violence by Walter Wink, and

SexualSuppression in the Catholic Church, and the ideas of ReligiousLeaders being beyond the common man

Allof these are actually easily explainable using the lyrics ofHellfire:

BeataMariaYou know I am a righteous manOf my virtue I amjustly proud

BeataMariaYou know I'm so much purer thanThe common, vulgar,weak, licentious crowd

Thentell me, MariaWhy I see her dancing thereWhy hersmold'ring eyes still scorch my soulI feel her, I seeherThe sun caught in her raven hairIs blazing in me outof all control

Here,we see what Frollo thinks of himself: a saint among sinners, a man ofstrong faith in a land of unbelievers, someone who does Good whereasthe rest fall into Temptation and Sin.

Likemajority of the leaders of the Catholic Church, and especiallybecause it’s in the Medieval Era, he is seen as someone who isinherently above his fellow man, better, purer, more virtuous, whichis why he deserves to hold his position, and use all the power andinfluence that affords him.

Butthen, Esmeralda comes along, he is tempted by her beauty, and herealizes that he is not as invulnerable and incorruptible as hethought he was.

Unfortunatelyfor all of us, he refuses to take responsibility for it.

It'snot my faultI'm not to blameIt is the gypsy girlThewitch who sent this flameIt's not my faultIf in God'splanHe made the devil so muchStronger than a man

Here,he refuses to believe that there’s any fault in him, that he isstill prone to temptation despite his beliefs; rather, he engages inwhat is called “Scapegoating,” putting all the blame inEsmeralda, going so far as to irrationally cast her as some wickedenchantress with powers that he doesn’t stand a chance ofresisting, than just a woman he is fully capable of getting over.

However,that involves him admitting that he was wrong about his belief thathe is incorruptible and “holier than thou,” and he wants toprotect that idea, more than he actually wants to be it, simplybecause it’s less distressing for him.

Thisis called Cognitive Dissonance, the stress someone experiencesfrom having a belief or more than directly oppose their actions andbehaviours.

Otherexamples of Cognitive Dissonance are:

Someonewho believes themselves a healthy person despite having a pack-a-daycigarette habit;

Someonewho buys a product or a service and it doesn’t turn out nearly asgood as they thought it would, so they make all manner of excuses andjustifications to make it better (in their minds); and

Someonewho stays in a relationship that has long past its expiration date,because they don’t believe themselves to be someone who gets it“wrong” with something as important as romantic relationships.

Peoplesuffering from cognitive dissonance often find ways to “spin”things and defend their original beliefs, rather than reevaluate whatthey thought was true and their identity. Rationality, logic, orconsistency ceases to matter to them; sparing themselves from thedistress that they were wrong or are acting against their beliefstakes priority above everything else.

Withthe above examples:

Thesmoker convinces themselves that cigarette smoking isn’t reallythat bad for their health (it’s actually worse);

Thatthe price, the manufacturer, or some other quality of the product orservice automatically makes it better despite the reality of it, likewith the exploding Samsung phones incident, and people refusing toreturn them in spite of the danger to themselves and everyone else;and

Thatthey can still salvage the relationship, that all the problems andissues are not nearly as bad as they are, and that they simply haveto try harder.

WithFrollo, he chooses the Myth of Redemptive Violence.

Inits essence, it’s “Good Vs Evil,” “The Final Clash,” theBook of Revelations where the forces of the Righteous do battle withthe Wicked, purging all that is unholy and ushering in a new, betterworld, or bringing all those deserving into heaven.

It’sinteresting because you see this constantly with all of Disney’sfilms with a classic “Villain” antagonist: there’s PrincePhilip slaying Maleficent; Tiana and Naveen outsmarting Dr. Facillierand letting his Friends from the Other Side do their thing; andTarzan doing battle with Clayton.

Theymay or may not have a direct hand in bringing about theirdoom—Clayton accidentally hung himself because of his refusal toaccept Tarzan’s help, for example—but it’s always VERY clear tothe audience that A) the protagonists are “good” people, B) theantagonists are “evil” people, and C) there is no redeeming the“villains,” there’s only killing, jailing, or trapping them inan enchanted lamp, because they will never turn to good.

Asstated above, Frollo believes himself to be a righteous man, theepitome of goodness, the Holy Servant of God, and people that don’tfit into his worldview are declared “Wicked” and must beslain. He has killed numerous gypsies, has been responsiblefor the death and/or suffering of numerous innocent civilians, andalmost drowned Quasimodo in a well, if it weren’t for the ArchDeacon warning him of his hypocrisy.

Inhis views, there is no salvation, no forgiveness of the sinner, noramending for your wicked ways—there is only judgment, and yoursentence is death.

Protectme, MariaDon't let the siren cast her spellDon't let herfire sear my flesh and boneDestroy EsmeraldaAnd let hertaste the fires of Hell!Or else let her be mine and mine alone

Here,Frollo shows just how extreme and devoid of nuance his sense ofmorality is—either you live, or you die. He also shows more of hisCognitive Dissonance and Redemptive Violence once more, where hepleads that—against the customs and the traditions of the church,and the scandal that would erupt— Esmeralda be “given” to him.

Thisis especially poignant as the Catholic Church has a massive,well-known history of suppressing sexuality and policing the sexualbehaviour of their followers and especially their ordained leaders,usually to disastrous results.

Insteadof giving them a chance to it in healthy ways, or to treat havingsexual urges as a natural thing, the Catholic church paints it asweakness, a flaw in you, a sign that you have failed and that you areshameful, awful, and a sinner for having them in the first place.

“Shaming”someone is the BEST way to get someone to do the thing you’reshaming them for—as you cut their self-esteem, and make thembelieve that they are weak and deficit in some manner, the morelikely they will be to do the vice or the crime because they want tofeel better, and the more likely they will accept that they truly AREbeyond saving, that there’s no hope for salvation, so fuck it,let’s do the thing.

Itgets even worse in the ending of Hellfire:

HellfireDarkfireNow gypsy, it's your turnChoose me orYourpyreBe mine or you will burnGod have mercy on herGodhave mercy on meBut she will be mineOr she will burn!

Here,Frollo shows the depths of his hypocrisy and the amazing mentalacrobatics he’s performing, saying “God have mercy” whilstpromising the opposite of mercy: death, or enslavement.

Here,Frollo shows that he’s no longer following the doctrines, the laws,or the traditions of the church, what God decreed or Jesus relayed tohis followers.

Here,Frollo shows that all he truly follows is what he believes to beRight—what is Right for him.

Iassumed that this behaviour follows him onto the Isle, where he has avery warped sense of religious morality that is really just hisselfish desires, being justified in his eyes by tacking the name ofGod onto it, much like Richard “Rick” Ratcliffe.

Whycan’t he get a grip on a loving marriage, relating in healthymanners to people, and building a loving family life for Claudine?

Because,like the rest of the Villains, he wasn’t marrying and having kidsfor unselfish reasons, he was using his ex-wife Salome to satisfy hissexual needs, is still using Claudine as a means to fulfillhis broken dreams and ambitions, and is unconsciously using them bothto serve himself first and foremost.

Thesexuality that was Frollo’s downfall has not disappeared—it’sstill there, and I’d argue it’s actually stronger consideringthe constant state of stress and despair in the Isle that forcespeople to resort to their basest instincts, and engage in whateverwill give them some measure of relief.

However,instead of going the healthy route of acknowledging that he isflawed, and that he should return to attempting celibacy in spite oftemptation, Frollo merely twists his lustful desires into somethingthat would be acceptable in his beliefs, and that of hiscongregation.

Howdoes he achieve this? Marriage, with all the intercourse for thepurpose of reproduction, and reproduction only.

I’dimagine that, after becoming the only Catholicreligious leader alive or not yet renouncing his faith, and thedeplorable state of everything and the VKsbeing raised, he sees himselfas some kind of New Adam,meant to be the progenitor of anew race of “Good, Christian People” who would eventually becomethe inheritors of this wretched hell, take it away from the hands ofthe Demon Queen that rules it (Maleficent), and rebirth it as aparadise.

Beforeyou ask, yes, he could be the CELIBATE steward of this new world,taking care of his non-ordained congregation’s children, but thatwouldn’t let him satisfy his sexual needs, and is thus not anoption in his mind.

Andbefore you ask why he doesn’t get flack about this, all of thepeople on the Isle are criminals, and if you weren’t living in thedeplorable conditions they were BGU, you learn to loosen yourstandards right quick here.

That,and they can be manipulated easily and lead to believe that undercertain circumstances, marriage and sexual intercourse with Judgesare possible—a lot of these people can’t read, and have noconcept of critical thinking.

Whyis he like this with Claudine, raising her up to be an ideal ratherthan a person?

Becausehe know he’s old, he knows he’s weak, and he’s essentiallytrapped in his church and a small area around it in Temple Way—he’sunable to bring the fight to the Islanders (not including hiscongregation, because they’re obviously theexception), be it ideologically or especially physically, so he hasto raise an army to do it for him.

Claudineis not just his daughter to him, or his Flock—she is a Messiahfigure to them, the “child that will lead them” as the actualJesus Christ was, the true successor to Frollo’s church when heinevitably passes away.

Sowhenever she starts to deviate from his ideals (i.e. growing up to beher own person, independent of her father’s desires), he doesn’tsee it as cruel and manipulative to mess with her emotions likethis—he sees himself as a sculptor making sure that this livingclay does not end up malformed, that she is completely, absolutelyperfect in every waypossible.

I’dalso be remiss not to mention that poor nutrition, dementia, and oldage have taken a serious tollon him.

Ishis being a product of the Medieval Era an excuse for hisdysfunctional socialinteractions?

Itis, actually!

Phoebusand Esmeralda are shown to be progressives in the movie, but theproblem is, they’re still the exception,not the rule; the world ofFrance in 1482 is nowhere NEAR the level of multiculturalism anddiversity we see today.

Mostpeople of that erawill never even leave the towns they live in, let alone be able tohave the means to travel vast continents and entire oceans to meetpeople unlike themselves—and as European Spice Expeditions haveshown, the interaction is more likely to be lethalto the natives than friendly, let alone romantic.

There’salso the fact that if a foreigner lives in France, it’s usuallyfrom a slave trade of some sort or as part of a roving band of apersecuted minority, like Esmeralda and the rest of the Romanipeople.

Thetimes they live in are very xenophobic, with very black and whitemorality—there are only sinners and the faithful, and again, withFrollo, there is no room for outsiders like Esmeralda and the Romanipeople, whom he believes only deserve death.

Andagain, there’s also the fact that Frollo is a Judge, and alongsidehis religion and his authority, believes himself to be inherentlyabove and better than people, and that he cannot do anything wrongbecause he is of that high position, as only a “Good” person canhold that office.

Tohave a wicked, sinful man capable of cruelty and madness would beparadoxical, and would absolutely never happen! (/sarcasm)

Thisis why he can’t see the pain and the suffering he inflicts onothers with his actions—he simply believes himself to be BEYOND andincapable of doingevil.

Withthe question of nature and nurture, I won’t headcanon aboutFrollo’s childhood, since the Nurture has the lion’s share ofblame here.

He’svery old, he’s obviously a very senior member of the church, andhas a lot of respect—he has spent almost all of his life beingtreated as higher and better than his fellow man, he has massivepower other people, and the beliefs of his church (and consequently,himself) is that he is a reliable, infallible authority for what is“Good” and what is “Evil.”

Andas the saying goes, power corrupts.

Mostpeople behave in fear of some higher authority, be they the police,their parents, or that of your superior at work. Unfortunately forall of us, Frollo only really fears two people: the Arch-Deacon, andGod.

Thewords of the “commoners” matter not to him. Maleficent has longknown that these people are beyond reason or are not worth it, sodoesn’t exercise her authority. And even within hiscongregation—more of a cult, at this point, really—dissent isimmediately silenced, murmurs that “Father Frollo” might not beas virtuous and holy as they think he is shushed like a motherreprimanding her child during Sunday mass.

Toend this rather long, lengthy tirade, can he ever break free of thedelusion, and can he truly change his ways?

Realistically,no, and no.

Unlikeactual dogs, you can’t teach Frollo new tricks, especially onesthat contradict his worldview, and he’s already shown time andagain that he won’t accept any objective evidence that he’swrong—every action of his is justified to him, and that subjectivedecision is what makes it “Right.”

Itdoesn’t help that, as I’ve said in other headcanons and mentionedabove, the people of the Isle of the Lost tend to be the ones whohave lost all hope, and are desperately clinging onto whatever it isthey can for comfort.

Ifyou bring him to Auradon, and have him meet up with the (much sanerand reasonable, but not entirely) congregations of Auradon, it’dlikely end in shouting and claims of heresy and going against God.

Havingyour everything pulled out from under you and getting throwninto the great big unknown is terrifying and painful.

Andfor many people, they’d rather be wrong and not realize it, thansuffer that—thus, Cognitive dissonance, and belief in RedemptiveViolence, with both exacerbated by the Catholic Church’s stance on“deviant” sexual behaviour.