#why i ship jonsa

[babybells123]

(ASOS, Sansa II)

(ASOS, Jon XII)

[fromstormsend]

“I don’t want someone brave and gentle, I want him. We’ll be ever so happy, just like in the songs, you’ll see. I’ll give him a son with golden hair, and one day he’ll be the king of all the realm, the greatest king that ever was, as brave as the wolf and as proud as the lion.” -AGOT Sansa III

“Ser Jaime Lannister was twin to Queen Cersei; tall and golden, with flashing green eyes and a smile that cut like a knife. He wore crimson silk, high black boots, a black satin cloak. On the breast of his tunic, the lion of his House was embroidered in gold thread, roaring its defiance. They called him the Lion of Lannister to his face and whispered "Kingslayer" behind his back. Jon found it hard to look away from him. This is what a king should look like, he thought to himself as the man passed.” -AGOT Jon I

***

These two summer children thought that being blonde was everything then. And there more many quotes from them that they think appearance is everything.

[ladygreene13]

I have to wonder why are people wasting time reading fic of their notp.... like. Do something better with your time ffs.

[willowycreature]

asoiaf tik tok is HELL because why is it that anytime someone edits jonsa they get jumped but san*an and sanr*on is okay to edit? "he's her cousin!" i have some news for you about ned's parents

[jackoshadows]

It's funny that the same folks who make up nonsense about 'blood supremacy' and 'eugenics' to hate on the Targaryens are obsessed, like really, really obsessed with Sansa calling herself 'the blood of Winterfell' and use that as the reason for their favorite Jonsa crackship and for why Sansa will rule the North.

Having a certain 'blood' is apparently very important for shipping reasons and for why one feudal queen should rule over the peasants and serfs. But it's also Aryan ideology and 'blood supremacy' if other characters uphold their house in the same way.

It's funny that they bring real world ethics into this fictional fantasy world to argue blood supremacy to hate on certain characters and houses while all the time justifying in world Westerosi child abuse, classism, sexism, bullying and ableism as being right because it's the done thing.

In a fantasy world where certain groups of people do have magical powers based on who they are and their bloodline - Targaryens having prophetic dreams and Starks having warging powers - it's funny they are trying to argue that a girl fighting against slavery is the real evil because of her house and her blood and she has to die in violent and painful ways since in her case eugenics and blood purity applies and ALL TARGARYENS MUST BE EXTERMINATED. Except for Jon Snow who weirdly escapes the evilness despite having Targaryen blood because he has the SUPER GOOD SPECIALEST STARK BLOOD that dilutes the evil Targaryen blood. also he's THE BLOOD OF WINTERFELL!.

Here's the deal:

Arya being the only Stark child to have the Stark look IS IMPORTANT TO HER STORY, plays a part in her narrative and foreshadows her future arc.

[I love how stans get triggered when this is brought up in terms of Arya's character and her importance but use it generously to prop up their shitty crackship. Oh, Sansa imagines one of her kids would look like Arya? This means she has children with Jon ❤️❤️❤️]

The Direwolves are important. They are gifts from the Old Gods. Nymeria being a leader of a huge wolf pack is important.

You know, I don’t like to give things away.“ says Martin, a grin spreading across his face. ”But you don’t hang a giant wolf pack on the wall unless you intend to use it.“ - GRRM

“You have five trueborn children,” Jon said. “Three sons, two daughters. The direwolf is the sigil of your House. Your children were meant to have these pups, my lord.”   - Bran, AGoT

Magical powers linked to blood are important in the fictional fantasy world of The Song of Ice and Fire. Especially when they are facing an otherworldy magical existential, apocalyptic threat from beyond the Wall. They need dragons, direwolves, prophetic dreams and magical swords to save the entire realm!

Bran, Arya, Rickon and Jon Snow being wargs who are having wolf dreams and communicating with each other through their direwolves is important.

Arya being her father's child in every way that matters IS IMPORTANT TO HER STORY. Her father literally talks to her through weirwoods and gives her strength and courage. She has learned from him on what it takes to administer Winterfell. These are necessary character building subplots for characters to ultimately end up in leading positions.

Arya being her mother's child and proactively taking charge, being a leader and getting things done in terms of surviving in a man's world is ALSO IMPORTANT TO HER STORY.

Arya has a connection to the North through her father - the North is literally rising up in ADwD to save Ned's precious, valiant little girl - and has a connection to the Riverlands and her mother - the brotherhood without banners.

Characters having certain features because they belong to a house is an important and running theme in the books. It's not just house Targaryen. The Lannisters have a certain look - hence why Ned figures out who Joffrey's father is. The Starks have a certain look - this plays into Catelyn's hatred for Jon because he looks more Stark than Robb which is important in terms of being the future heir considering ALL the Starks who have ruled the North thus far have the Stark look. Hell, the Baratheons having a certain look is what leads Ned Stark to crack the secret of Lannister incest - 'The seed is strong'. Applying real world genetics and biology to a fantasy world is idiotic.

Jon Snow looking like a Stark is important in terms of his secret mystery parentage and who his mother is. His special bond with Arya gains significance considering she looks like Lyanna and that is Jon's mother. Lyanna having the Stark look is important. Sansa looking like Catelyn is the major component of her relationship with Petyr Baelish spanning over 5 books.

GRRM is not randomly writing characters looking a certain way for shits and giggles. These are important, narrative and foreshadowing plot points.

[agentrouka-blog]

I really can't understand why people like to hate Jonsa so much.

Like...it's a ship??? Why they can't let people be????

"Ew it's incest" [and they ship and idolize the Targaryens-]

Jonrya doesn't receive the same hate and, imo, that's a MORE incestuous ship than Jonsa.

No one takes Jonrya seriously as a potential canon development. Why bother hating on it?

Jonsa as a mere ship would also probably not draw a lot of attention.

But Jonsa as a serious canon theory? Upsets a lot of people because it is incompatible with many popular trajectories of speculation.

That and the fact that the jonsa pioneers also (correctly) predicted Dany's villain arc. Lots of bad blood during the late seasons of the show.

[eruherdiriel]

I always chuckle a little when I see people say "I don't ship it or anything but I see why people do" and "they have so many parallels" about Jonsa because ... that's how it starts. You are at Level I of Understanding the Vision. Just lean forward a bit and you'll fall all the way down to join us in the pits.

[thelustybraavosimaid]

A reminder.

This is what Jon in his arc about outsiders and unity and prejudice and seeing past preconceived notions and going against convention is all leading to you guys...

[jonsaslove]

Ive been loving Jonsa for 9 years and i really dont get why everyone hates it so much. They love Jon banging his aunt who is genetically his sibling due to generations of inbreeding

It truly does baffle me.

Honestly my take is it has always come down to the shipwar aspect and that other ships felt threatened by jonsa because nobody spends that much time fighting to refute a ship that is a “crackship” in their mind.

That would be like me writing essays about idk, Dickon/Sansa. (Nothing against that ship btw just know a small handful of people like it as an AU pairing). They would be irrelevent in my eyes, but yet everyone in the asoiaf fandom feels the need to prove that jonsa is nonsense.

And we mind our business too, honestly way more than most of the parts of this fandom so it would be incredibly easy to ignore us. They’re just hating to hate at this point.

As for the incest of it all, I don’t even care lmao. Jonsa could be full blood siblings and i’d still be shipping them. Jon and D*ny’s level of blood relation is the least of my problems with that pairing!

[inviperita]

not surprising that i am obsessed with jonsa considering that like 70% of my teenage years were spent obsessing over a Ship with

— guy whose name start with a J who doesn't know who his real parents are and is raised by another family, only to find out about his biological parents who are like VIPs of his world and he has like 10 last names. he's very close with his brother-best friend(-parabatai), he likes redheads, he's described as a fine swordsman, he's told by one of his numerous father figures a version of "the things you love destroy you" speech, oh also he dies and later on gets brought back to life, and then...

— redhead girl who takes a lot after her mother, is often described as beautiful, is interested in art and music, she cares a lot about others and is very protective over those she loves, overhated in the fandom even though she’s just young girl who is thrust into a world she did not understand/was severely underprepared for

and most importantly for a good portion of the book series think they are brother and sister !

like are u kidding me why does this sound like something out of a jonsa fanfiction with tags like #half sibling incest #dark jon snow #jon snow comes back wrong

[sherlokiness]

2013 amazes me. It's so surprising there would be a post explaining how Jon and Sansa would end up together from more than a decade ago. Is Mladen one of the og jonsas perhaps?

Hi, anon! Thanks for the ask.

Reference: This post.

It really is amazing to find that post about Jon and Sansa. I'm pretty sure that's the only one(besides blindestspot also 2013) which verbosely listed rational reasons for why Jon and Sansa could be a couple. You'd be hardpressed to find one bc all the other clues of Jon ending up with a sister are all attributed to jonrya or adjacent - aegony bc of the incest. When the original outline came out in 2017, there were talks about jonrya clues being the leftover from the og timeline like Jaime being King but scrapped. I believe the author has actually switched Jon's endgame to Sansa from Arya from the first book bc of that one line "No, that's Sansa." There are also others like Sam/Sansa being a bastard's lady love and the use of radiant.

I don't think Mladen is a jonsa the way a "shipper" is. They've merely suggested a possibility for the reason George deliberately made Jon and Sansa distant but still fond of each other. Nevertheless, it's still a bit rebellious for Mladen to suggest jonsa endgame when the most prevalent ship during those years was Sansan. It was treated as a "done deal" ship like JaimeXBrienne was. Sansa hate was also rampant so saying she's gonna end up with the "hero" in the book is practically blasphemy.

[lupinusalbus]

Do you mean jonsa happens only after Jon has killed his love Dany? I wouldn't want that at all if that's the way the ship becomes canon. I'm one of the few who expect Jon and Dany to have a sexual encounter but it won't involve love in Jon's part. Seeing jonerys foreshadowing is very different when viewed from a jonsa perspective. Top of my head sample would be the one about the wolf howling. They think it's very romantic when the passage ends with a restless sleep which usually sleep=death. As you've said before jonerys will not necessarily be a romance per se but a tragedy. Jon/Dany having negative foreshadowing doesn't mean they won't have a romance, it can also mean the romance ends badly. The thing that irks me is the fandom being blind about the negative connotations of jonerys hints. They don't mention what it means to have a restless sleep or why when Jon was with Val/Dany, he couldn't taste the sweetness unlike her.

Hi. Sorry that it's taken me a couple of days to get back to you. If Jonsa does happen, I think it's difficult to speculate about the timeline, but I don’t think the characters (Jon and Sansa) would get into a relationship while believing they are siblings. It seems like such a development would be totally out of character for either. Once they learn the truth, and Sansa is using the information, as we saw her doing on the show - at that point Jonsa as a love match/pairing would make a lot more sense. Its hard to say exactly how that might unfold, so I think that is why there’s quite a bit of speculation about what might happen after Dany’s demise. If Sansa becomes queen, then she would have an opportunity to help Jon leave the Wall or see him again, and so on. 

As much negativity as we've seen written about Rhaegar and the prophecy/prophecies that drive this story, I pretty much think that Jon and Dany are pre-ordained to happen. We are in the dark about the specifics of the prophecy that Rhaegar was acting on, but for all we know, Jon’s birth may somehow be meant to stop Dany. There is this prophecy of the Prince who was Promised, but readers don’t know exactly what that means, or what the “prince” is destined to do. And the Prince himself/herself  also doesn't know. But the use of the words “ice and fire” suggest an ancient opposition rather than the wholeness that Jon’s character on the show seems to naively desire between his two families. Whatever the specifics, the prophecy and how it will somehow come to pass - even in a twisted or surprising way - is the main driver of the Jon/Dany storyline. There was an interview/conversation quite some time ago with GRRM and one of the directors where GRRM pretty much comes out and says that Jon/Dany coming together is the point of the story. Of course, as you say, this does not mean a happily ever after denouement. 

So yes, I think that the show gave us a semi-accurate version of the relationship between Jon and Dany; that it deteriorates because of her madness and jealousy, and Jon ends the threat by killing her. The political theory does prove true in the sense that Jon “betrays” Dany for the Starks, and the result is that Bran is on the throne instead of Dany or Jon himself, the hidden King. But was he pretending all along? I don't think the plot we saw for the tv version bears that out.

I think Jon and Sansa coming together and taking back Winterfell makes perfect sense, the two characters share a love and yearning for home. Jon refused to denounce Sansa’s birthright to Stannis, they are both connected to the phrase blood of Winterfell, Sansa thinks it will be sweet to see Jon again, and so forth.  A further connection, as you mention, is suggested by Sansa hearing the ghost wolf, possibly as Jon is dying.

I'm not sure this really answers your question, but thanks for writing.

[jackoshadows]

I love all the cute 'Why do people hate Jonsa so much' anon questions to Jonsa blogs when there is an entire 'anti-Jonsa' tag they could just browse through to get their answers.

It's not about getting an actual answer but asking this to an echo chamber for bias confirmation on how the bad meanies are unfairly hating on their crackship!

And the funny thing is that the answer to such questions actually gives us the reason for why Jonsa is such a hate filled ship deserving of mockery and why some of us are only responding to that hate.

Answer:

Say the same folks who take and take and take and use every single aspect of the Jon/Arya relationship for their crackship. Maybe these idiots should first stop bringing out the original outline for their crackship?

I mean, look at this nonsense!

So Stark-Tully and Targ-Stark doesn't work with Arya?! Doesn't she have literally the same frigging parents as Sansa?

How did Jonsa get popular when the show was on? Because shippers were straight up using Jon's thoughts of Arya for Sansa - just straight up copy pasting. Like, look at this 2019 post!

First of all, I love how this person pretends to be a 'non-shipper' lmfao.

Second, 'Pointy end'? How dare you!

Then there's made up fanfiction that straight up erases Jon's angst about his bastardy - a central point of his entire story - and his bond with Arya due to their outsider status and make that about Sansa.

If their two brain cells actually worked they would realize that using everything from the Jon/Arya relationship to argue for Jonsa means that they are actually making a case for Jonarya!

However their tradfem brains are so fried with sexism and misogyny and hate for the other female characters that they can only keep their crackship alive by shoving their self-insert fave into the plot/story/relationships of other characters.

These people are all 'Stark sister's foreva!' but they hate, hate Arya and want her gone from Winterfell at the end of the series.

They 'love' Arya so much they want her to be the Northern Oberyn dammit! (Kicking her out of home and family under the guise of 'Freedom')

Also Arya is scary now!

They also want Arya to kill the other female character they hate!

Speaking of Daenerys, apparently the Jonsa hate is also because Jonsa shippers are the OG Dany haters!

Imagine bragging about being the pioneers of spewing some of the most vile, vulgar, utterly sexist, anti feminist, women hating, patriarchal, bigoted hatred against a fictional female character for the crime of getting in the way of your utterly idiotic, totally shite, vanilla, bland, boring crackship.

I have been in many fandoms in the past and pol!Jon has to be one of the ugliest, misogyistic hate I have seen towards the lead female character where women are theorizing and fantasizing about the male protagonist inflicting domestic violence and murdering his partner after seducing/manipulating her.

Imagine bring proud of that... They should be in the shame cube for that nonsense!

[agentrouka-blog]

Nothing against Jonsas, but I feel like the "radiant" comment is widely misrepresented because toward the end of Agot before Ned's execution when Sansa thought he was going to be freed Arya uses the expression and even describes her hair and what she's wearing unlike Jon. In context of the scene with Sansa and Joffrey it seems like it refers more to how happy and excited she looked. Pretty sure Catelyn also recalls Lysa as being "radiant and dry-eyed" at some point in their double-wedding. Again, nothing against the ship itself, I just don't think it's accurate to read it like that, especially since 14 yo Jon was all drunk and moody and could have definitely been more descriptive.

First up, I agree that no one HAS to interpret the scene as some Jonsas do.

But we need to remain factually correct, as well. There are exactly 4 uses of the word radiant, and Arya is not among them. (This website is a wonderful gift for quickly checking quotes, btw.)

Here's how Arya describes Sansa:

And there in their midst was Sansa, dressed in sky-blue silk, with her long auburn hair washed and curled and silver bracelets on her wrists. Arya scowled, wondering what her sister was doing here, why she looked so happy. (AGOT, Arya V)

When Arya describes how Sansa is dressed, it paints an important contrast to the ragged deprivation that Arya has been suffering in Fleabottom for many days. And the term she uses is a very specific (and confused) "happy".

1 - Jon about Sansa:

His half sisters escorted the royal princes. Arya was paired with plump young Tommen, whose white-blond hair was longer than hers. Sansa, two years older, drew the crown prince, Joffrey Baratheon. He was twelve, younger than Jon or Robb, but taller than either, to Jon's vast dismay. Prince Joffrey had his sister's hair and his mother's deep green eyes. A thick tangle of blond curls dripped down past his golden choker and high velvet collar. Sansa looked radiant as she walked beside him, but Jon did not like Joffrey's pouty lips or the bored, disdainful way he looked at Winterfell's Great Hall. (AGOT, Jon I)

Since the beginning of the paragraph already establishes Sansa's presence, it was not necessary to include a description at all, and yet she is inserted again after an already lengthy description of Joffrey's handsome qualities. And not just casually. GRRM uses a pretty loaded word for absolutely no reason. Yes, "happy" is one important aspect of it, but why use "radiant", in particular when happy or any number of less ambiguous synonyms would have served just as well to contrast her mere disposition with Joffrey's attitude and with Jon's disapproval?

And how else does GRRM use the word in his books?

The other uses are:

2 - Catelyn about Lysa:

"I believe she liked me. Why was she crying?" "She's a maid on the eve of her wedding. A few tears are to be expected." Lysa had wept lakes the morning of their own wedding, though she had managed to be dry-eyed and radiant when Jon Arryn swept his cream-and-blue cloak about her shoulders. (AGOT, Catelyn VI)

Context:

"They made me marry him. I never wanted it." "No more than I did," her aunt said. "Jon Arryn was no dwarf, but he was old. You may not think so to see me now, but on the day we wed I was so lovely I put your mother to shame. But all Jon desired was my father's swords, to aid his darling boys.  (ASOS, Sansa VI)

I doubt Catelyn was mainly describing Lysa's exuberant happiness in that moment.

3 - Jaime about Cersei:

"How is Cersei? As beautiful as ever?" "Radiant." Fickle. "Golden." False as fool's gold.  (AFFC, Jaime V)

I also doubt that Jaime's main focus is Cersei's joyful disposition to answer his aunt's inquiry about her beauty.

4 - Reznak about Dany:

To rule Meereen I must win the Meereenese, however much I may despise them. "I am ready," she told Irri. Reznak and Skahaz waited atop the marble steps. "Great queen," declared Reznak mo Reznak, "you are so radiant today I fear to look on you." The seneschal wore a tokar of maroon silk with a golden fringe. A small, damp man, he smelled as if he had bathed in perfume and spoke a bastard form of High Valyrian, much corrupted and flavored with a thick Ghiscari growl. "You are kind to say so," Dany answered, in the same tongue. (ADWD, Daenerys I)

Is she thanking him for pointing out her incandescent joy? Or perhaps her appearance?

Clearly, this is a word that GRRM himself tends to particularly connotate with beauty, and given the rarity of its use in the books, it does stand out when Jon uses it to describe Sansa. It's extremely extra of him.

You don't have to agree with our conclusion. But that doesn't make it necessarily inaccurate according to what else is represented in the text. And the context.

[lingulaca]

I have no clue why SanSan (Sansa x the hound) comes across as more palatable than Jonsa. Yes, Sansa and Jon are first cousins (whether I like it or not, their marriage would be totally acceptable in Westeros), but is is actually worse than shipping a girl in her early teens with a 30+ dude who started having hots for her when she was just 12?

oh totally. i sideye everyone who ships them, like, that age gap... I've never seen ppl who ship that criticize jonsa but if they do YIKES 😭

jonsa >>>>>>> sansan

[atopvisenyashill]

These people are ruining the story for new fans too. I don't think new fans realise that dark Dany has been a thing since before the show even started, which is what makes people saying "she is the hero! D&D made that up" so baffling because, no, it's a lot more nuanced than that, you're just lying to new fans.

yes omggggg finding out a lot of new fans didn’t realize that like, aegony was not just popular but THEE only acceptable ship for either character + plenty of people were linking dany to the kl kaboom + plenty of people Who Remain To This Day Dany Stans And Pretend Like They Aren’t Part Of The Discourse were theorizing about dany & jon having a magical incest baby while tyrion just stands there with his thumb up his ass as they all die, that these were the DOMINANT theories pre show & pre show catching up to the books, is just WILD. like it wasn't that long ago ya know, but it's completely memory holed bc a bunch of really angry people with no ability to emotionally regulate, a propensity for calling everyone they don't like a bitch, who admit themselves they skip half the povs in the book and pride themselves on being bullies (literally go look at that user targnation on twitter - they gloat regularly about how they "scared people off" from the fandom - no you didn't, you just helped splinter it, thanks a lot you freaks!!) get to set the tone and conversation for this character. they'll be like "wow silly stupid jonsas and their silly stupid theories" as if the ashford tourney theory wasn't dead ass originally a sansan theory (you're all wrong and heterosexual btw!!! it's clearly pointing to brienne hello!!!!!), as if the meereenese blot essays weren't okayed by george and written years before the show ending. "oh well the blot essays are misogyny slaver apologism" well they're okayed by the author so take it up with george, like i just don't understand why these people have to be so hostile AND then on top of that have to play the victim. bud YOU are the one screenshotting ME!!!