#ship dynamics worth debating

[nerdy-hyperfixations]

This is the only time I will talk about proshippers/proship and antis. Hopefully.

Proshipper means "someone against harassment because of ships or someone who strongly believes fiction is separate from reality"

I don't know when proshipper branched out from describing people and then had a million variations created off of it like "darkship" "mildly dubious ship" "only when drinking coffee at 3pm ship" but what's stupid about that is the whole argument about whether Billford is a "proship" or not stems from the fact that no one can seem to define what a "proship" ship is. Because it's stupid.

What would a proship mean? A ship that proshippers would ship? I doubt the majority of billford shippers consider themselves proshippers. Is it a ship that is considered immoral and worth harassment for? Because if that's the case, the fact Billford is immensely popular now would discredit its status as a proship, wouldn't it?

It can be argued its the type of ship, as a lot of people say proshippers ship incest, pedophilia, AND abusive relationships, but again the whole argument of proshippers is that they don't want to be harassed for potraying their ships, meaning it is based around what society views immoral. If society has recently changed its opinions on abusive dynamics, then it wouldn't be on the list of what people get harassed for shipping. Plus I feel "abusive relationships" were always hit with an asterisk of "glorified abusive relationships" because depictions of abuse have always been more widely accepted in general media and usually only creates issues for people when they feel the abuse is portrayed favorably. (What can be classified as glorification of abuse and whether Billford can or has fallen under that category is a different topic)

So. Is Billford a proship? Who cares. What does anyone get from putting an arbitrary label on it. This is so stupid and I hate that I wasted my time writing this.

guys

I don't know how many of you need to hear this...

but Billford is a proship

Billford is a proship

Billford is a PROSHIP

Just because it's been semi confirmed in Book of Bill does not make it any less a proship than it was before! Shipping wars can be fun, but remember these people don't exist. You are in the same boat with the people who ship "illegal" and harmful ships. Fiction is fiction, like what you like. But there is no enemy in fandom.

[grandlinedreams]

Hello there! If I could make a request please. Femme reader joins the Heart Pirates while after running away from home. Her parents force fed her a devil fruit and abused her well before then. Law knows this, but didn't know which island she was from. Maybe the crew shores up on reader's home island and she doesn't realize it until they surface? It's readers turn to go on land and leave the ship for a bit and she runs into her family and all hell breaks loose. Law comes to her rescue maybe? Can be like a new relationship or maybe they've been flirting but nothing official yet?

You're writings are amazing! Thank you!

Hiya papaya!! I absolutely can, I have an oc i made for OP that's got a little bit of a similar backstory so i incorporated a little bit of that but I hope I can do this justice for you!!

[Heads up! PLEASE READ TAGS: established relationship, fem!reader, unhealthy family dynamic/mentions of abuse and abuse related injuries, healthy dose of angst, mention of anxiety/panic attack, hurt/comfort]

You don't want to be here.

Pressed to the railing of the Polar Tang's deck, you stare at the island that grows ever closer, jaw taut as the excitement you'd felt this morning completely drain from your system.

You'd been all for getting to be on solid ground, eager to explore a new place ㅡ only to realize that your destination is familiar. Too familiar.

You want to leave. You want to beg Law to find another island to make a supply run on ㅡ anywhere but here. But you know that will lead to questions, ones you don't want to answer.

"Excited to be on land?" Hakugan means well with his question, you know he does, but it still makes you tense.

"Something like that," you answer, hoping nobody noticed that your grip on the railing has bled your knuckles white with the force. Your heart hammers, blood icy in your veins. Maybe it won't be like before, you try telling yourself. Maybe it'll be different.

All you can do is desperately hope that you won't have to be here for long as you approach the island you once called home.

ㅡ

Something is wrong.

Law is far from an idiot or unobservant ㅡ though you try to hide it under your usual cheer, he's aware that your smile is forced, and you try to hide the way you flinch at every sudden noise, every unexpected movement.

"What's wrong." He phrases it more as a demand than a question, watching your expression shift to one of faux-confusion. "Don't try to lie to me," he presses. "You've been acting off since we left the ship."

Damn this man. Damn him for knowing you as he does as of late, afforded the soft vulnerability that comes with being in a relationship, even if new and tentative.

You waffle for a moment, still debating the pros and cons of trying to lie to him ㅡ but it's far from worth it when you know he'll be able to see through it.

"[Name]." The press of your name is intentional, and you last all of two seconds before the dam breaks.

"I'm from this island," you blurt, hate how disgusting it makes you feel to admit connection to this place. For all the idyllic scenery and cheerful townsfolk, you know better. The eyes averted at the bruises on your skin, the carefully deaf ears to the way you were talked to.

They knew, of course. How could they not? It was never like they made it a secret. Especially not after that ㅡ and they'd made it seem like it was your fault. How scandalous, a child eating a devil fruit ㅡ of course you deserved your punishment.

Law stares. You'd mentioned little pieces of your past, prompted by the mandatory physical required of all of his crew, the discovery of scars and bones with clear evidence of breaks long healed.

"You should have said something," Law says, hating the way you flinch, shrinking in on yourself. "We would have found a different island."

"I didn't want to cause problems." Your answer is mumbled, eyes averted. You listen to the approach of footsteps, the weight of a hand on your head.

"We'll make this quick, then get out of here."

You nod, some of the raw pit of anxiety soothed by both Law's touch and his words jefore you take a step forward. "I'll grab some of the dry store supplies we need, I know where to go."

A protest is on the tip of Law's tongue that no, you shouldn't have to go anywhere alone on this island ㅡ but he keeps quiet, abruptly understanding that you're trying to feel as normal as you can.

"Alright," he relents. "I'll grab the other few things. Meet back here, then we'll head back."

You nod. Though your skin still crawls at the very fact you're standing on ground you once did so long ago, you push it down in favor of focusing on the task at hand. The sooner the two of you finish, the better.

ㅡ

You're gathering the last of the supplies when things fall apart. Back to the door of the store, you don't see them walk in ㅡ but the voice that calls to you is horrifyingly familiar, cutting through the air like a knife to sink square into your back.

"Long time no see, [Name]."

You suppose you should have known the tentative peace you've found wouldn't last long enough. After all even with the anonymity the passage of time has afforded you, someone was bound to recognize you. You stiffen, fighting the urge to turn. Maybe if you pretend you don't know them, you can leave.

"Thank-you," you mumble as you're handed the brown paper bag, handing over money before you turn, aiming to walk past them as quickly as you can.

Cold fingers snag around your upper arm, yanking you to a halt. "Is that any way to treat a parent?"

Hot anger ignites in your stomach, indignation that they have the audacity to call themself a parent ㅡ but that flicker of righteous fury is snuffed out when you look up. They smirk, and suddenly you're a child again.

"You're to address me the way you should." Their grip tightens, and you fight not to wince at the protest of your arm beneath their grip. They'd broken this arm before ㅡ and it's clear they can do it again, if they so choose. "Am I clear?"

How many times have you imagined spitting in their face over the years? Fighting back the way you always wished you could, proving you're not a scared child anymore ㅡ only to be reduced to it again. You can't even call on your powers, rooted to the spot as their fingers undoubedly bruise your skin.

"I want an answer," they tell you sharply, and you wince as their nails bite into your flesh as well. "Now."

Bile rises in your throat, burning as your heart hammers with sheer panic, breathing shallow. You hate them. You don't want to go back to this, you were promised you'd never have to, and what good is a promise if it's broken?

Years of progress seems to vanish in an instant as your lips part. "Y—"

"Excuse me."

Nevermore have you been so grateful to hear Law's voice. It's cold, sharp with quiet fury — and when you glance over, Law is glaring at your parent. "Let go of her."

Your parent scoffs, and you fight not to drop the bag in your hold on the floor. "Why should I? She's my daughter—"

"Not anymore." Law's tone is flat and fierce, anger blazing in his eyes as he steps forward. He knows it's not a great idea, but he's not above liberating their hand from their body if they're not going to let go of you. "You don't deserve that title if this is how you treat your own child. Don't make me repeat myself." His eyes flash, the promise of a threat in his words. "Let go of her."

For a moment, you think that they won't. That they're going to make this escalate into something bigger than it needs to be, that you'll be stuck here again, unable to protect yourself ㅡ and then their grip eases just enough that you can wrench yourself free and move towards Law.

You know that they didn't let you go because of him, only to save face and not cause a scene ㅡ but you'll take it, even though you're tempted to turn and offer them a taste of their own medicine with your power.

But where would you be then? No better than them and something they'd always called you, even though they'd been the one to make you into it — a monster.

ㅡ

You're not sure how you get back to the Polar Tang. Whether you walk or Law uses his ability — you can't focus on anything but the lingering panic still thrumming in your veins, rising to a ringing crescendo in your ears.

They talked to you. They touched you.

Law finds you hunched over the bathroom sink, a rag in your grip as you scrub at your upper arm. "Off," you mumble as he approaches, "need to get them off of me."

You've scrubbed your skin red and raw, but it isn't enough ㅡ and you flinch when he curls his fingers around your wrist. "Stop," he says softly, keeps his voice low. "That's enough."

You're taut like a wire under his touch, frozen before you ease up, letting him coax the rag from your hand. You let him guide you from the bathroom to his room, coaxing you to sit on the bed.

"Breathe," Law instructs, hand against your back, rubbing gently. "In and out, slowly."

It takes several long minutes to match your breathing to Law's example, the abrupt sag of your shoulders as tension starts to bleed from your body. You're tired.

You don't protest as he coaxes you into laying down, the soft slip of blankets over you as exhaustion weighs your limbs down. "Law?"

"Hm?" Law hums, lets you reach for him on your own terms, tangle yourself into him before he settles an arm over you, fingers splayed against your back.

"I'm sorry."

Your apology makes Law tense. The last thing that you need to do is apologize — and it invokes leftover anger. Not at you, but at your past, what you'd endured before.

"Shh." Law kisses your forehead, lets his lips stay pressed to your skin as he speaks. "You have nothing to apologize for. Now sleep."

It doesn't take long for you fall asleep, and the peace of your face makes Law's chest ache. You deserve this kind of peace, this kind of safety.

And he plans to give it to you, for as long as he can.

[pixelatedtaken]

Alastor, Vox, and their Rivalry

...or the nothing it gave us

S1 Analysis

this is based on information the show's s1 gave us. this can and will most likely change once the next seasons release.

disclaimer: this is not a ship analysis. you can read it however you like, but it's not intended for ship purposes

SPOILERS AHEAD ↓

Even before Vox was introduced, it was made clear that Alastor has a... distaste for modern electronics. Even so, he seems to know how to navigate them. He's familiar with TVs and their mechanics, watching and making commercials.

So let's start with:

Radio vs. TV

By default, both represent different eras of media: the Radio and the TV.

It's a very old classical tale of old vs. new that to this day, there's debates on it. Alastor and Vox are exactly that. The debate of which is better. The old and reliable way or the new developed way. The one that doesn't appreciate the changes being made and the one who embraces it. A Radio Demon and a TV Demon.

And they are that simple old vs. new dynamic. Different but similar.

Alastor vs. Vox

Vox first gets mentioned through the title of the Vees by Sir Pentious. And even with Alastor's response, "Oh, nobody important." we're hinted at a dynamic, in this case indifference, which is mostly how Alastor tends to treat and act towards Vox. Mostly...

On the other hand, Vox is obsessed. From knowing that Alastor was gone for 7 years, the hate drawing, the 'fuck alastor' mug, the cameras, the ripped photo, you can even go as far as saying their outfits– he's not subtle about it.

As soon as Vox learns about Alastor's return, he has an overdramatic response with his nails digging into the table, voice changing, and his cameras instantly on Alastor. In general, Vox has cameras probably all over hell, but keeping an eye on Alastor is tricky when the man glitches every time he's being recorded etc, etc. This is also stated by the fact that in the 7 years Alastor had been gone, not even Vox knew where he was.

And Alastor is very aware of the fact that Vox is watching him. So aware that he even posed for the camera (you can argue all you want, he posed). Midly encouraging the behavior as such. Either by the pose or by saying that Vox needs to try harder in his endeavor.

This is where I say that Alastor is also obsessed. In a different way but not any less.

Here's a core attribute the two demons share: Attention.

They want attention, to be the center of it. And although Alastor barely, if at all, provides Vox with it... Vox certainly does provide to the fullest, and Alastor is more than happy to let it happen. With that being said, when Vox was broadcasting the tarnishing of his name, it was a different story. He went back to his tower as quickly as possible - grabbing a cup of coffee on his way - and more or less owned Vox's ass.

Speaking of the song, it's worth noting that Alastor perfectly responded to the part of the song that was never broadcasted, the beginning. It could have been for thematic purposes. It could have been that he somehow knew, the how alludes me.

Let's bring up a certain picture:

Throughout episode 2, much of their relationship was hinted and kept mostly hostile, but this picture gave a whole new meaning to it all.

Alastor, the demon that distorts devices and renders them unable to capture him on film, has a photograph taken of him without any glitches. And next to him in that photograph is none other than Vox.

Meaning:

Alastor allowed the picture to be taken.

Alastor and Vox were close.

They had formed a bond, and the closest thing we can call it, is a friendship. But between the then and the now, something broke that bond.

One thing could have been Alastor's dislike for modern technology vs. Vox's like for evolution, which could have played a role in their fallout. As such, a chain reaction of events begins to unfold.

If it was that dislike, resulting to disagreements, where it started or not, we don't know, but we do know that their relationship fell apart after Vox asked Alastor to join his team, and he refused. They became hostile towards each other, most likely beyond repair since, before Alastor disappeared, they had a fight.

We don't know how brutal the fight was, but we do have the line, "You still pissed he almost beat you that time?". Keyword: Almost. Alastor ALMOST beat Vox but decidedly did not. From Alastor's backstory, we know he's more than capable of defeating overlords without a second thought.

Here's a question: Why didn't he kill Vox?

Maybe it's for stupid reasons. Maybe it's not. Who knows, but we know that he didn't kill him and that Vox was resilient enough to not be easily beaten.

One thing is for sure, the picture re-contextualizes behaviors and actions.

Although at its core, their relationship is a rivalry, adding a possible friendship changes the initial view they gave us of them.

And I'll end it by saying that Alastor calls Vox 'old pal'. If that means something or absolutely nothing, I don't know.

BTW! Calling Alastor obsessed isn't in the same context as Vox. Alastor is obsessed with the never-ending attention while Vox is obsessed with Alastor himself. Just a clarification. Though I wonder how many people stuck this long to read, it's not like I'm saying something new here. I can't wait for all of this to be trashed and debunked somehow in the future.

[reflections-in-a-critical-eye]

https://www.tumblr.com/reflections-in-a -critical-eye/757069484485902336 /interesting-that-w-korea-covered-the -upcoming?source=share

The article does make u give it side eye.. no usual ppl are writing such abo type things.

Also do u think jkk thinks that ppl take interest in their friendship or look at it more closely than other pairs? I remember there was this interviewer who asked jk if all BTS has the same friendships among others like how he has with jm or not. while mentioning to jm the interviewer also referred to that one moment in BTS's book. don't remember if it was regarding Tokyo trip or if it was the bar scene when jm goes after jk. leaning more into the later one. the interviewer seemed more like he wanted some controversy regarding BTS's friendships but jk handled it well.

Then when that other interviewer in US asked jk "I know jimin's in town too right?" the question ain't odd but looks like jk wasn't expecting it lol. he looks baffled there for a sec and given how they were acting secretive i wonder.

This is an interesting question and I'll admit I was intrigued a bit by each of those situations when it happened.

But first, I do want to look at it from an outsider perspective because I do think there's an answer here as well that has nothing to do with them as a romantic ship.

Jungkook being asked live during an interview about Jimin shouldn't be shocking. The interviewer was a BTS fan and for her, knowing there's another member of the group freshly arrived in the city, of course she'd briefly ask about him. It was entirely plausible during that interview. But Jungkook was caught off guard because the remark wasn't probably part of the previously established set of questions, which means he wasn't prepared with an answer in English, hence the awkwardness.

As to the other situation, that ended up a written interview for an American magazine (Variety, Vanity Fair? I don't remember, but I do know it was one with long history in the entertainment business).

If the interviewer mentioned a passage from the book in the context of Jungkook's friendship with Jimin, it shows that the person has done their research. That's the bare mininum and going as far as finding that particular source (which is mostly for the fandom circle), it shows there was a bit of digging. But even if that entire source wouldn't exist, I believe (and this is where my heavily biased perspective comes into play) that for an outsider, it becomes obvious very fast that Jungkook and Jimin have a close relationship just by observing them even in group settings. It is less complicated and less debatable for those who are not heavily involved within shipping/fandom spaces. We can sometimes lack perspective or see the bigger picture because we're too close to it. For a person who probably dedicated just a couple of hours of research because they had to do an interview with Jungkook, Jimin most likely stood out in terms of friendship/relationship of any kind.

Was the question asked in order to create controversy? It is possible of course, but in this case, I doubt it. The stakes are low. Even if the interview would gain traction given the subject, the usual readership of the magazine is not the fandom of a kpop idol. It wouldn't be worth it and I doubt anyone dug deep enough to know that group duos and dynamics can be a sensitive topic.

Lastly, apart from the short piece in W Korea being slightly weird, it does make me pay attention even more to the type of coverage and reactions that AYS is getting ahead of its release. If for almost a year, the excitement was contained in jikook circles, it seems that ever since the first teaser a few weeks ago, it has captured the attention of the fandom at large and beyond.

Factors such as their popularity as soloists do come into play to a various degree, but I believe that the footage we got so far is really appealing to a wider audience. They are simply fun to watch! You don't need to ship them or to believe they are in a relationship to be able to enjoy it. They have chemistry together and people are drawn to that.

To answer your initial questions, all these inquiries over their relationship or mentions have always remained neutral, without an actual hint at something else. Yes, there was talk about couple pjs, a Japanese website calling their announcement of the show as them looking like a couple, or using the word bromance in the headline. But all these are small details that are used as fun ways to attract/cater to audiences, while remaining in the platonic sphere. It's good for business, but everyone is keeping a safe distance. Which I believe will be entirely fitting with the actual show.

[musclesandhammering]

You could be totally right! 🤷‍♀️ I adore Loki & Thor’s relationship. I was just posting an angsty little scenario I thought of. You could’ve easily disagreed with me without the condescending attitude though :)

I need there to be an emotional scene in Secret Wars or Thor 5 or whatever when, after Loki’s out of the tree and the war is won etc, Thor expects Loki to stay in New Asgard with him, but Loki declines and says he’s returning to the TVA.

Something along the lines of “I’m not your Loki, your Loki is dead. This was his home, not mine. I’m sorry he never got to see it. But I have my own home, and they’re waiting for me by that time door. So..”

I just think it would annihilate me :)

[skaruresonic]

Honestly, as fun as it was to go "Jesse what the fuck are you talking about" at the absurdity of fandom tourists who refused to engage with canon in good faith, it still felt like people explaining the nitty-gritty of how and why Freemance "didn't count" as pedophilia were giving the antis too much ground. Like they were implying there was a point that any given HL ship could be considered too problematic to defend.

As someone who ships Valhoun, which could arguably be considered more problematic than Freemance in this system of moral checks and balances by mere virtue of Barney actually being in his forties or so (although even that is debatable tbh), as opposed to Gordon's Schroedinger's Creepy Old Man Status, needless to say, I found the whole thing ridiculous.

To me it doesn't really matter even if Gordon was 47, because Half-Life exists in a context where real-life social mores don't apply as stringently. Humanity is on its last legs and Eli wants grandkids, yo. I have argued in the past that age gap squicks would likely lessen out of necessity following the Combine's breeding suppression. People need to procreate in order to repopulate the species, after all, and beggars can't be choosers. Kleiner said "get busy fuckin' or get busy dyin'" for a reason.

However, I'm not terribly keen on Freemance because Gordon's blank-slate status means I'd have to make up his characterization in my head, and it just doesn't seem worth the effort. I always feel like I'm shipping a dozen different versions of Gordon rather than Gordon himself. He also... just doesn't react to Alyx, making their chemistry incredibly lopsided. At least Barney goes "Eugh" when Alyx teases him about "not being an animal person"; Gordon just presumably stands there like :I when she cracks her Zombine joke.

Despite lifting somewhat in recent years, fandom has an ironclad "Barney is Alyx's uncle/big bro" fanon, which is just as annoying as "Shadria is incest" because it basically sprang out of nowhere. Canon seems to imply that Barney and Alyx are acquaintances at best, not terribly familiar with each other outside of their faintly overlapping social circles. Kleiner is honestly their only link. Barney, in fact, has less reason than most other older male characters to be considered one of Alyx's honorary uncles. At the very least Alyx suggests the possibility Gordon may have seen her once as a child; no such equivalent exists for Barney. The idea he babysat her is also hilarious considering he never even directly addresses Eli in HL2. On top of that, there's the issue of infantilizing Alyx, which I could rant about for hours. Yes, Valhoun may be just as "fanon" as Uncle Barney headcanons, but that doesn't mean I'm not thinking in terms of the series' overarching context. I view Valhoun as a sort of push-pull dynamic between Barney and Alyx, duty stifling love and placed inside a pressure-cooker of sexual repression. Hot. Plus, there's that forbidden fruit aspect of rebel/Metrocop lol. And while I would in a perfect world like to see the two be together, given HL's bleak world, realistically, I don't see it working out. Not even in an "Alyx dumps his ass for Gordon" kind of way, necessarily, but in a "they break up out of fear for each other's safety but there are still lingering feelings if they gaze in the other's wake for too long" kind of way. I have also argued that all three major HL ships bear imbalances. Valhoun does not suffer the experience gap that Freemance and Freehoun would; Barney and Alyx would have shared roughly the same life experiences under Combine rule that Gordon lacks.

[gojoest]

I HATE GOJOHIME SO MUCH OMFG

The annoying ass shippers on twitter have multiplied since the q&a and they’re continuously bitching and forcing gojohime down everyone’s throats 😭

There is no romance between them!! But they will NEVER understand this. They keep using the “gojo likes older women” thing when he doesn’t?? His preferences were never mentioned. Geges troll answer has caused so much fucking drama and debate

Also gojo doesn’t like her, he just teases everyone cuz he’s like that. She also hates him it’s literally canon. They keep saying enemies to lovers is their trope and its canon. It’s not??

SORRY FOR THE VENT 😓❤️

hiiii !! let me give you a hug first to calm you down 🫂

you know i don’t ship them either, in fact i see absolutely no potential between them in canon but we’re all here to have fun and things don’t always make sense with fanon ships or they do but it’s very subjective. like i am sure some ppl side eye me for shipping sukugo and yeah it makes absolutely zero sense tbh 💀 but EYE like it, it makes sense to me and i find it hot and i go crazy when i insert myself in that ship too

simply avoid things that trigger and agitate you like that, it’s literally not worth it dwelling on what gojohime shippers say to make their ship look more canon compared to other ships — it’s literally NOT and won’t be by the looks of it bc the honored one is long gone (man it hurts to say this 💀 i won’t do it again, i promise i just wanna make a point) and i don’t think gege will waste time on a flashback to show us possible but failed or unfulfilled romance between them bc : 1) that just makes no sense in the light of the manga’s progress and the themes it generally revolves around, and romance is not one of them let me tell you that. it’s close to 0, we’ve only seen bits and pieces with toji + mamaguro & miwa + mechamaru, ANYWAY

2) we’ve already seen the past arc and judging by their interactions there was no romantic attraction between them

i’ve already said what i think about gege’s troll answer about sugar baby gojo so i won’t repeat myself BUT the funniest thing is how ppl, children i suppose, consider utahime an older woman. gojo & utahime are 2 years apart. she is in her early 30s how is that old 💀 like if older women were gojo’s preference — which was never confirmed — she’d be instantly OUT, no chance

anyway, i think i got a bit irritated too im sorry kdkekj

one last thing tho, i don’t think utahime really hates gojo. i mean it’s obvious she cannot stand him which is why he keeps fueling her irritation but that doesn’t equal hatred. i think deep down she holds no grudge or ill feelings towards him and i don’t need it spelled out to me yk, i can read and draw my own conclusions — which is why i don’t think that “hate” in the relationship chart was in the sense of actual animosity. there are a lot of ppl that annoy the hell out of me but i don’t hate them, it’s just i don’t click and vibe with them and that’s the essence of their dynamic too, it’s one-sided irritation with gojo being very much chill about getting on her nerves

i’ll shut up now 🫡

[miguxadraws]

Your toxic Ragapom is by far one of my most favorite interpretations I've seen. She can't die. No one else can/will really help her except for Caine, who probably only sees the fact his second longest lasting performer is suddenly much more happy. And because Pomni hasn't abstracted, there is no real cause for alarm on his side.

This yuri is radioactive and has heaps of dark comedy potential, and I'm here for it, well done!

This was exactly what I was thinking about while drawing that last piece of chernobyl. I kind of feel like making a small comic where the rest of the crew debates on whether they should make an intervention or not. Of course, each would have their own viewpoint about the situation, some may differ from the other and yada yada.

Ragatha being a lot happier is definitely an important point here though. It would be the main reason why everyone keeps downplaying and turning a blind eye to the whole situation.

Well! I don't know if it's worth it to elaborate more on this twisted buttonblossom though. I mean, if there's popular demand I'll sure do it, but I must admit I didn't expect people to enjoy it that much considering I made the first drawing as a gag lol

I'm surprised there aren't that many other depictions of a toxic dynamic for this ship though?? At least I haven't seen that many around. The digital world is insane!! I don't believe it's wild to think most of the people there (especially the ones that have been there longer) have a few screws loose!

[poisonousjk]

“What Karma? You mean the night before they traveled to continue filming their show they stayed at the same place? The way you all want that show to be and mean more than it actually does”

Hahahahahha. So you are telling me that Jk just got back into the country from a trip and instead of him going to his “boyfriend” or his “boyfriend” coming to him after missing him on all the days he was on the trip, he choose to spend the night with his coworker whom he only sees when they have something to film? Were they filming too in Jungkook’s apartment that night? Where is the footage of Jungkook cooking maguksu for Jimin? Trying to act like you are not burning on the inside right now trying to put up a brave face. So much for people who never meet except when filming content💀

Babe I don’t have to put on a brave face about anything because I have been honest about my opinion on Taekook and Jkk. I indulged people like you sometimes because I’m bored or I think it’s amusing to see how far it goes but I want to be clear that we’re not having a debate I’m not fighting with you about what’s real or who’s closer because I already know what it is.

I mean if you want me to be brutally honest I’ve never found Jkk to be a compelling pairing or even to be a friendship within the group that was worth any focus at all beyond the ship which is a company invention. I think Jkk and vmin play into the worst and least genuine parts of JM’s character and personality and the only reason vmin is a little bit more inter is the fact that they’re the same age which changes their dynamic a bit but all of this is a tangent that you and your friend probably don’t care that much about but like I said it’s more interesting 🤷🏽‍♀️

[folklorianhaze]

Guys, I think I… might actually really want to write my first ever elucien fic 👀🙈

I am EXTREMELY nervous to post this because I write a lot of e/riel and I don’t want the people who follow me for those fics to get angry at me for wanting to try writing something else or a different dynamic 😅 I genuinely like both ships a lot and I want to continue to write for both, but some people in this fandom can be so all or nothing and it’s kind of scary and the negativity is a little exhausting sometimes lol

Idk I’m still debating it and whether or not me wanting to do something different creatively is worth me potentially receiving harassment for it 🥲

[spicybylerpolls]

I agree the preferences are definitely relative to will, but also just who byler is? as a switch byler enjoyer I understand anon's points, and ultimately people can hc what they like, but I think it's worth noting that byler specifically have particular personalities that lend themselves to a dynamic which shouldn't make it surprising that it's what people prefer or notice in canon and work with. the writers have written them a certain way, and I personally don't feel a need to "subvert expectations" - personally. same with how public personas don't always =  you are different in the bedroom, that's not the experience for everybody AND there's different ways to view it. for example will being softer in his daily life means to me that he may be a slut in the bedroom, not a raging dom. also, dom/sub is not all that sex is or can be. byler can be neither to a degree.

I don't even think that it's just his Assets that make people see will as a bottom. if this was a ship between two more balanced masc men I'd get how switchvers debates are pointless, but they tell us explicitly that will is not masc and doesn't want to be and his acceptance is learning that he doesn't have to be, and accepting his visibility because he can't change that. wanting to see mike fucked like a bratty bottom uses will as a tool in ways I wouldn't want to because he doesn't like being aggressive (but this is now making fandom deeper and smut fic is usually fantasy, which is why I don't complain I just simply don't read those fics because will is unrecognizable, it's not my cup of tea but it's fine! I'll read eddiemike instead or something) and puts will/byler on the back burner

does the bratty bottom vision go beyond mike in s3, and somewhat s4 though? I see where people get it from 100% but I would gather mike mellows out as he matures, so I don't see that for his long term relationship with will. if it was another more masc guy, or eddie or whatever yeah I could see it better! less bratty, more cheeky and challenging. it's okay that will isn't the partner people might want for mike physically.

they're basically both bottoms in ways, but I agree with you spicybylerpolls, that if will weren't in the picture mike might be more of a switch or bottom with other guys. will is allowed to be a stereotype, which is the other thing people find hard to grasp, but it's fine for him and we can embrace that. even in sfw things.

the point brought up about will topping as a reclamation of control/power has always felt more like an excuse to me? maybe not excuse, but an easy explanation that's never explored. because topping is not only about power, or the only way to have control during sex, that's... really uneducated if people think so. will can find so much power and control in bottoming, he gets to set the pace AND it's with the most trusted person on earth who already loves to provide and protect him. that's a perfectly fine stereotype and not boring, and wanting to see mike get fucked doesn't erase how that initial dynamic is good in its own way 😭 and people have no issue with a top having no power when it's sub top mike, but will bottoming = bad because he has no power as a sub? it's just not how that works 😅

I enjoy switch byler so much but the way in which people insist mike is the subbiest bottom and get quite rude about how people could possibly see otherwise, when - like you said op - it's clear when will is right there why people enjoy the canon dynamic, and how these are not balanced macho male personalities (no matter how much puberty noah went through that changed will's physique. I rewatch s4 and will is still the softest guy, he's just taller. they purposely tried to hide his growth because that's not their vision for will. finn is also growing bigger too, so) is so unnecessary and shocking to me. byler are not st3ddie, it shouldn't be shocking that a lot of people are fine with a soft will and assertive mike because... well that's in the show? those are the boys we all love? I'm able to enjoy all dynamics while understanding what the creators like for them.

I don't intend to make things deep here, because we all know it's just preference and what we like for our faves, but speaking definitively like "at best"  doesn't make something true so I wanted to offer my two cents!

These are all interesting points! Thanks for adding to the conversation! I fully agree that certain things just are Byler, and as you said, "byler specifically have particular personalities that lend themselves to a dynamic which shouldn't make it surprising that it's what people prefer or notice in canon and work with." 100% true!

And yeah, subverting expectations is not always necessary. Because like you said, "byler are not st3ddie, it shouldn't be shocking that a lot of people are fine with a soft will and assertive mike because... well that's in the show? those are the boys we all love?"

Sometimes people role switch/subvert expectations - not just with the spicy side of byler but with all sides - and it ends up not even looking like them. Especially when the argument is rooted in Will's muscle gain and "buff Byers" which, like, you said is not the original vision for the character. Arguing that Will would top because he's physically stronger than Mike completely loses the plot.

But to play devil's advocate, I say that Will being the soft/gentle/less assertive/sensitive/INFP that he is doesn't necessarily mean he can't also fantasize about to fucking boys/Mike, just like Mike being the assertive/leader/knight in shining armor/more masculine one in canon doesn't mean he can't fantasize about the opposite.

(Like in the same way that a straight guy wanting to fuck his girlfriend also doesn't mean that he can't be soft/gentle/less masculine/less assertive/INFP/sensitive/etc. Even if this isn't in a hyper-masculine/aggressive way like other alpha types, it's still considered "normal" and even expected in straight contexts since, well, that's how straight sex typically works). So why is it different in a gay context? Horniness isn't always 2+2= 4, although it can be.

It honestly seems like a lot of these nuances of this discussion/debate are more about who is more dominant and who is more of the sub rather than their specific positions. One could argue that dom Mike/sub Will would closely link to their canon dynamics.

But even so, I remember one of the earliest polls on here had a high number of people who viewed Will as "domming from the bottom" and Mike as "subbing from the top" which is really interesting and somewhat throws a curve ball in this analysis. Maybe that connects to lots of people using the word "bratty" to describe Mike?

All in all though, when discussing gay sex, especially in fandom, there's always this huge emphasis on binary roles and positions that isn't really present when discussing straight sex, but really is that really fair? Will being more feminine ≠ automatically bottoming and Mike being more masculine ≠ automatically topping because these things aren't necessarily gendered or aligned with personality traits, where one is "the boy" and the other is "the girl" during sex, or at least they don't have to be. They sometimes are, but not always.

Through this lens, even if you view top Mike as more canon compliant, it's hypothetically possible that top Will/bottom Will wouldn't even really be role-switching. It could just be what they naturally gravitate to in the bedroom while still keeping all other aspects of their personality. BUT, like you said, if Will is indeed a bottom, it's 100% true that, "Will can find so much power and control in bottoming, he gets to set the pace AND it's with the most trusted person on earth who already loves to provide and protect him."

What does everyone else think?

[poggieking3]

alright so, i watched mediexcalibur's newest video and i might be bitten in the jugular for this, but now that i'm reassured that mario is in fact not in his 40s, i'm fine with the idea of mario x meggy. there is that CLEAR sybling dynamic between them, yeah. i just lowkey got sick of all the discourse over this so i'm glad medi, someone who works for luke, cleared this up.

i hated this ship so much when meggy was a brand new character. like, i viscerally hated it. but if medi himself confirmed that mario is basically the same age as 3 and 4 then like. cool. rest assured i ship meggy with tari, i just Won't give a shit if i see a mario x meggy shipper in the wild anymore.

anyways, that's my 2 cents. i do not ship them because i, like most of you, see them in a sibling dynamic. it's just, since they're of age, then who gives a shit.

edit because i have an extra 2 cents worth of ranting: "but mario met meggy when she was a minor!" yes, you're right! she met him on her 15th birthday! it's a little odd, yeah. they're still adults now though like, last i checked meggy's no longer a minor LOL. she's been an adult for 4 years, she's known mario for, what, 7 years almost? it's not out of the ordinary. they have the same age gap as i do with one of my partners for god's sake. we're 2 years apart.

i was like, mario x meggy's #1 hater, so in what world am i in where i've ended up defending it. i'll take this as character development i guess.

if anyone takes this as permission to try and debate me i'll just block you. if the ship is still such a big issue why don't you tell mr. mediexcalibur himself

anyways thanks for coming to my TED talk

[theblacksheepcz]

Sabecha things cuz I’m bored grrrrr

i mean honestly since it’s been almost two years since I’ve invented this ship it’s about time i spill the beans on my headcanons

homie they literally appeared together in Combat Arena X, Waste World and debatably Walk. Possibly in the Gameworks. They definitely met.

Honestly i see them starting as competitive frenemies in Combat Arena X and then during a heated fight they just make out one day they chill and chat and kiss under the moonlight.

Rebecha is 5’7” and Sado is 6’7”…it’s a whole foot of height difference. And yet. Rebecha is so strong that she can literally just scoop Sado and raise her above her head. It’s always funny to imagine- and- Sado sometimes, nonverbally, teases her by just bending over to her eye level- and and- other times Rebecha just, grabs her tie and pulls her into a kiss- A- 🤭

Since, yknow, Sado is a computer virus which pretty much paints her a criminal in Gameworks’ eyes, they at least try to keep their relationship secret. Especially from Irving. Only Wizarro knows. He’s Rebecha’s bestie. Anyways yea they’re like forbidden lovers and that’s where the angst comes in.

“Right person wrong time so much?” YEAH-

Sado may be a psychopath but has a soft spot for Rebecha, and Rebecha is probably the only person who’s not afraid of Sado and isn’t phased by her antics

also she doesn’t really care if Sado hurts someone unless they’re her friend (and then waste world comes around and Rebecha befriends Rust and Rocky and everything goes to shit)

Sado and Rebecha have this weird on-and-off relationship, both from some arguments and being assigned to different games.

tbh despite the fact that Rebecha hates her job she used to be a ‘goody two-shoes’ until Sado’s rebellious attitude rubbed off on her.

they would be great partners in crime 🙏

Rebecha is pretty grumpy and doesn’t really know how to show affection meanwhile Sado easily cheers her up and mainly shows physical affection

surprisingly, Rebecha is the more protective one (she has self-worth issues and is afraid that Sado will get killed/deleted when caught), and Sado only protects Rebecha when she is in danger (she doesn’t want to seem clingy)

you know those animal relationship dynamics? Rebecha is a raccoon and Sado is a fucking possum

“Hates everyone except one person x Hated by everyone except one person”

the only way that Sado can fall asleep is to use Rebecha as a weight blanket.

Too much energy and annoying x No energy and annoyed with the iconic flavor of ‘OH FUCK THAT’S MY IDIOT’

theyre both ambiamorous. They dated Chandrelle until she left them for Lazarus LOL and Sado is still salty about it.

in conclusion, i have a weird taste in ships and they have their ups and downs and I love their flaws

send post

[underestimated-heroine]

There are a lot of characters--particularly characters gifted in the art/skill of hand-to-hand combat--who fall into what i call the "Inigo Montoya" problem where a lot of people debate whether or not they're smart and end up in small-stakes yet irreconcilable discourse wars, because "they are smart" and "they are dumb" are, in fact, both correct statements about the character.

Inigo explicitly (and accurately) points out that he is not intelligent: "I need Vizzini to plan; I have no gift for strategy."

He does not understand the politics of their plan, needs parts of their plan re-explained to him (multiple times, if Vizzini's griping is anything to go by), and frequently drinks himself into even deeper stupidity.

But what we cannot forget is that Vizzini also needed Inigo. Because while Vizzini had a high IQ and was strategically gifted, he couldn't fight. The ability to win a physical fight does not just require athletic skill. The ability to fight well also requires tactical intelligence

"Tactics and strategy? I thought they were the same thing," Kel commented. Neal shook his head, a comma of hair flipping into his eyes. Kel longed to touch it but kept her hands locked behind her. "Tactics, my dear girl, is what you did with those bandits. It's immediate planning for the immediate problem. Strategy is the long view, the movement of armies and a plan that covers an entire battle or war." - Tamora Pierce, Page

Without the intelligence to judge when to move closer to or further from his opponent, change ground, retreat, attack, or even do something as small and quick as parry or feint, Inigo couldn't be a swordsmen of such a high caliber.

Of course, I am applying a pretty strong lens to a character from a book/film whose themes don't really have to do with the technicalities of fighting, but then again neither do most of the characters who wind up centered in these sorts of discussions. Besides, I think Goldman (and the movie made from his book) kept his character in line with someone who has the spatial awareness (Inigo was the one that noticed the ship following them) and dynamic cleverness--

"Inconceivable!" "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

--of someone gifted in moment-to-moment mental and physical adaptability.

In the words of Jessica Page Morrell:

"It's simple, really. Fictional characters are bigger than life, bigger than death; they say what we dare not say in real life, jump higher, run faster, make love more often, and also usually mess up more than we do in the real world." (from Thanks, But This Isn't For Us)

Unlike real people, characters are emblematic. Simplified. However, that doesn't mean writers simplify them so much that their intelligence exists only on a dichotomy: "Smart, or dumb?" If that were true, we wouldn't be able to relate to them or their stories at all! Characters, just like real people, are smart in their own way--if the writer is good, anyway.

Not that knowing this will stop this kind of discourse (or that I even want it to actually lol) but I think this is worth remembering, especially if you're a writer.

[rebelsofshield]

Star Wars Ahsoka: "Time to Fly" - Review

Ahsoka and Sabine begin their mission and the series starts to find its footing in an improved, if not great, third chapter.

As Hera Syndulla reaches out to New Republic leadership for help, Ahsoka and Sabine set out for the mysterious world of Seatos. However, they find much more than they expected upon arrival.

Finally, things are starting to come into shape. "Time to Fly" doesn't exactly solve the many issues that plagued Ahsoka's two part premiere, but it takes some decent strides towards getting back on course. Despite it's remarkably short runtime, Dave Filoni manages to accomplish a decent amount in "Time to Fly" delivering some much needed exposition and character study and an entertainingly unique action sequence.

While it may be a strange thing to be thankful for, I'm very glad that such a large portion of this chapter is spent simply letting Ahsoka, Sabine, and Huyang interact with one another. Sure, Rosario Dawson's Ahsoka is still too detached and mysterious to make much of, but we are finally starting to understand the ins and outs of her mentoring of Sabine Wren. Unlike the premiere where both women were defined mostly by quiet frustration, we begin to see a more fruitful, fluid, and dynamic relationship between both characters here. Ahsoka wonders aloud if she's a quitter and too eager to abandon her callings. Sabine struggles to live up to the steep expectations that come with being a Jedi. We are still missing the origins of this dynamic and Ahsoka's rationale for wanting to change a non-Force Sensitive in the Jedi arts to begin with, but "Time to Fly" at least lets us understand a bit more why this is a dynamic worth following. And even if Dawson's performance is still failing to land, Bordizzo seems to be settling into Sabine while creating her own spin on the character.

There's also some welcome clarification on the state of the larger galaxy in "Time to Fly" as Hera Syndulla approaches members of the New Republic with concerns about Grand Admiral Thrawn's return. Intentionally or not, Ahsoka seems to put the audience in the position of the skeptic here. While Hera is one of the show's heroines and a beloved character to franchise fans, viewers who are new to all of this have no context as to why they should care about Thrawn's return or about Hera's desire to rescue Ezra Bridger. We may understand that Hera wants this, but viewers haven't exactly been given reason to stand by her side during her debate with Mon Mothma and Kazuda Xiono's asshole dad. It's a bizarre moment of narrative dissonance and if intentional, could be an interesting move in the long run. I'm not inclined to give that level of credit, but it still makes for an interesting sequence

Also Jacen is here. He still has green hair. He looks a little less like a horrific mash up of a Rugrats character and a head of broccoli.

The highlight of "Time to Fly" is undoubtedly the extended dogfight that takes place above and in the skies of Seatos. The initial reveal of an ornate and massive hyperspace ring is a fun spin on Star Wars' forever fascination with big secret space objects and I like that for a change it isn't a superweapon. And the dogfight that follows is fun Star Wars spectacle. It may be lacking in any form of true narrative tension, but the execution by director Steph Green and the production team is pretty damn fun. I mean, Ahsoka gets in a space suit and slices at any enemy ships in zero gravity. It's the kind of Star Wars set piece that many fans have dreamed about for years and the results are filled with all of the whirring laserswords and sliced up starfighters that you'd hope for.

And then, "Time to Fly" just kind of stops. Given the episode's short runtime it doesn't really make sense why Dave Filoni didn't write more of a coherent third act to this chapter. It speaks to the clunky serialization of Mandoverse shows that want to be episodic without the actual storytelling chops to do so.

All in all, "Time to Fly" feels remarkably more competent than its predecessors. Sure, this is faint praise, but I do want to see this show succeed. There's some genuine joy and creativity bubbling beneath the surface in Ahsoka and I want to see it break free. Hopefully this is a sign of good things to come.

Score: B

[fantastic-nonsense]

Soo, I found you when I was reading through Makorra reddit posts, and I must say wow. Your research, the interactions you spotted, I have not seen something that could rival the things Korrasami shippers posted. Also may I ask why Makorra is your fav ship?? Os it too late to ask? Also what do you think of a Makorrasami ship?

I kept this in my ask box for a long time, debating on whether or not I was willing to answer it. It's nothing against you, it's just that I've been....out of the LOK fandom for a long time and don't have particularly fond memories of my time there. The finale fallout was my first true long-term fandom drama and it kind of soured my ability to engage with the show the way I used to. But I'm willing to answer at least part of your ask because I think I've finally gained enough time, space, and emotional distance to answer without any lingering bitterness. The answer for why I liked Makorra largely boils down to two reasons: I really loved how they both pushed each other to grow, and they're a friends-to-lovers bickering Battle Couple who would die and kill for each other if necessary.

It's no secret to anyone who's followed me for more than a month or so that I'm a sucker for that particular ship dynamic. It's the same dynamic that underpins a lot of the ships I like (from Percabeth to Royai to Kanej to Luke/Mara to Deckerstar to Captain Swan to Spitfire to...several others), and Mako and Korra fall squarely inside it. I think it's an extremely fun ship dynamic that combines the solid fundamental baseline of "we have shared interests and enjoy spending time together," fun and flirty romantic vibes, and the Knowledge™ of each other that comes from knowing how to fight seamlessly beside each other.

I also really enjoyed how, as characters, they were always pushing each other to think beyond their "duties" and examine whether they could be happy as individuals who deserved to have personal lives. Mako spent his entire childhood and adolescence caring for Bolin and making sure that they were both fed and had a roof over their heads; and while Korra was sheltered, she largely defined her worth as what she could do for other people as the Avatar. Neither of them were given much of a chance for personal exploration outside of their respective roles and duties until they met each other, and I think they were instrumental in helping each other grow in that respect. Mako always treated Korra like she was a person before he treated her as "the Avatar," and knowing Korra allowed Mako to explore who he was outside of "Bolin's driven older brother" and "pro-bending champion."

So knowing each other (whether they were friends or dating) helped them form a more complete understanding of themselves. They both have strong morals and opinions, and even when they clashed it was apparent that they deeply respected each other and wanted the best for them...which I really loved. There's several other reasons, but those are the main two.