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cookiedoughmeagain · 4 years ago

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Haven DVD Commentaries - 5.07: Nowhere Man

Commentary with Brian Millikin (writer for the episode) and Nick Parker (writer of the companion episode 5.08).

I love these two and their commentaries so much because they talk a LOT and they have many things to say. Which is awesome, if sometimes hard to capture in text, so this is a mixture of direct quotes and paraphrasing.[My comments in square brackets]

BM: It’s kind of a two-parter, these two episodes, maybe a little bit less than some of our other two-parters of the season. That was something we set out to do.

NP: Yeah, not to the same extent as 5.05 and 5.06, but there is a lot - the Trouble carries on through both episodes, and that was an edict we had going into the season.

BM: We really wanted there to be a hard ending to a couple stories in this episode, and in the next one. So, Audrey gets to a place at the end of this one, and so do Mara and Duke, and everyone else. And this is the first episode of the season where we have Audrey Parker back. I was excited to do this because last season I wrote the episode just like it - ‘The New Girl’ - it was one of my favourite ones I did. And it seemed like all episode long it was Lexie who had come out of the Barn, but in reality it was actually Audrey. But it was fun because it was kind of like a new pilot. And then this one is not like a pilot, it was much different because Audrey had been around - even though she wasn’t in control of her body she was there to witness what Mara was doing. Which was something I think we were really attracted to …

NP: I agree

BM: … the idea that she feels a certain culpability or responsibility because she was in the back seat watching what Mara was doing.

NP: She was there, inside.

BM: Yeah and it’s a stark contrast to what we’ve done before.

BM: So this scene [the opening scene with Audrey Nathan and Duke on the Rouge] we talked about all these different versions of starting right on the heels of the previous episode. As it is I think it’s maybe an hour later, two hours later. Which is a little bit weird if you think about it. It means that episode 7 and 8 really take place within …

NP: 5, 6, 7 and 8 all take place within about 12 hours.

BM: This entire season takes place over the course of about 3 days.

NP: Yep. And there were also several different versions of this opening scene where they’re discussing the split and what to do with Mara, and I remember one which was pretty interesting where we talked about it just being Nathan and Audrey having this conversation on their own, and Duke being separate from it.

BM: Yeah, but we kind of wanted it to be the three amigos here. And Emily did a great job of playing the, almost PTSD that she has a little bit; she’s been through hell. And we had a version of this too where a lot of the scene was about them testing to make sure that she was really Audrey. But that just felt kind of unnecessary; first of all we knew that she was really Audrey, and we felt like the audience would too. So we just flew past it and assumed that she is. And the most important thing for us was that they don’t know what happened at the end of the last episode, they’re just winging it.

[As Duke goes to see Mara in the hold] NP: I love that Duke just has basically a prison cell in his boat, like always ready to go.

BM: It’s the biggest hold of a boat I’ve ever seen. I think it’s wider than the boat itself, the actual boat, but it looks great.

NP: The hold of his boat is bigger than his bedroom.

BM: But I love the set, and more than that, I love the two of them in here. Remember from the very first day of the season we always knew we were going to get to this point right here; episode 7, half way through with Audrey and Mara split. And we kept it to something of a surprise, and I think a lot of people thought it was just going to be Mara all season long and then maybe in the season finale it would be Audrey, or that at some point maybe Audrey would claim her body back. But we had always wanted to have both; to have our cake and eat it too. And we just thought it was more interesting for the story that way.

NP: And I think we decided to develop it even more and push it even further because Emily is so, so good as Mara.

BM: Absolutely.

NP: We were like; we’re going to give her as much screen time as we can.

BM: I know we all expected her to be good as Mara - I mean she’s always great as Audrey, and she really brings something to Sarah and Lexie. So we expected her to be good - but I think she was even better than we had anticipated. We love her as Mara.

NP: Yeah, you can just see her having fun in the role. She’s enjoying getting to stretch her legs a little bit, and it shows.

BM: I think the other actors had fun with it too; enjoying playing off of her as Mara. I mean, how many times have Eric Balfour and Emily Rose been in the same room together, and now they’re in the same room together, but it’s not Audrey. It’s someone else entirely. In fact she’s closer to Hannibal Lecter than anything else. That was sort of the impetus for all this stuff with her in the hold of the boat; yes it’s easier to shoot [all in the one set], but alse we thought it was dramatically interesting to see what they would do with it. It makes sense to keep Mara prisoner, at least for now just to figure out what to do next, and then it’s like well; this is great, we’ve got Mara being held in prison on Duke’s boat and Duke has now become her jailer. And that interaction between the two of them gave us so much.

NP: Yeah and particularly with what they’re discussing in this scene with the unknowing of what the split means and how it works, whether Audrey is connected to Mara. Because it’s all uncharted territory.

BM: She said it right there [as Duke’s leaving]. That was the thing that was most interesting to me about it, was the idea that she’s a prisoner, but she is actually in control. Or at least that’s what she says; she claims to be holding all the cards and to know what’s going on. And whether she does or not doesn’t really matter, because they definitely don’t. And she might. So that power interplay was something that we haven’t been able to do in the show before, and when you get to the fifth season of a show I think you’re just looking for these interesting new things you can try.

NP: And because we’re in the fifth season now I think we get to live with the characters a lot more.

BM: Sure.

[As we see Audrey and Nathan in bed together] NP: This is probably a lot of fans favourite scene. We don’t get to see these two actually be together that much. Stuff’s always so crazy in Haven that they never really get to just be together in bed and be together as a couple.

BM: No, and it’s sad because here we’ve got an actual tender scene between Nathan and Audrey and guess what - work calls. Because it just does.

NP: Every time.

BM: They don’t get a lot of time to just hang out and be with each other.

NP: I like that line; “Case Face”.

BM: I think I took that from the fact that we always talk, here and on other shows too, about having Writer Face. When you’re off on script or an outline or working on an episode. You know, you still come in to have lunch with the other writers, or you’re still in the hallways and at the coffee machine, but you’re not really there.

NP: You’re basically a phantom.

BM: With this distant look in your eyes as you try to figure out … how are they going to get out of it in act four if they don’t have a gun … or whatever. We always call it Writer Face, so Case Face was from that. I think I ripped off, everybody.

NP: Yeah. And that’s fine. That’s what good writers do, right?

BM: But the other important thing in this scene - there were some versions where we had it in that first scene but that just felt like too much - is Nathan revealing that he can’t feel her any more. Which leads him to believe (correctly) that she is no longer the same; she’s not immune to the Troubles any more. Something is different about her. And it’s such a big deal that we decided, I think correctly, to put it in this scene between the two of them. Because it’s big deal obviously, for the two of them. At the same time, he says it doesn’t matter to him and I think we all believed that. You know, what would it be like if when he realised he couldn’t feel her he wasn’t in love with her any more?

NP: Yeah, that was something we talked about a lot.

BM: As someone who can’t feel anyone- yes he could feel her and that might have been one of the things that maybe got him started

NP: Yeah.

BM: But it’s certainly not where he is now. Not any more.

NP: Yeah.

BM: And I think maybe it spoke highly of their relationship that he believes it doesn’t really matter. Although I do think that it matters to her.

NP: Of coure.

BM: But maybe less to him. And he’s also just got her back. I don’t think there’s any version where he wouldn’t have wanted to be with her anymore just because he couldn’t feel her.

NP: No, I agree. But this lack of immunity after living with it for so long, now finding out that she isn’t, it throws her off her game which I think is an interesting dynamic in this episode. She has to live in that reality. And he’s telling her it’s all fine, that they’re going to make it. But you can see her having some self doubt.

BM: Absolutely. And we liked the emotion of that and having to grapple with that because it was a way for them to express some of the … I guess the best word for it is still PTSD of what they’ve gone through with the Mara situation. What they’re still going through. Without it being all about that. It was a microcosm of the fact that they’re sort of pawns in a larger game that they’re not in control of necessarily.

NP: Yep. Oh there’s Kirsty.

BM: Yes, Kirsty Hinchcliffe, Lucas Bryant’s wife.

NP: Officer Rebecca Rafferty.

BM: Yeah. We wanted to put her in this scene because we very much wanted her to be in the next scene she shows up in. And she’s also super-useful here, along with this townperson they meet, in establishing that people aren’t necessarily warm to the idea of Audrey being back. After what they’ve been through with Mara. Mara killed a bunch of people, she was running around causing all kinds of problems, and for the people who are in the know (like Rafferty) even they are probably a little reluctant to necessarily throw their arms around Audrey and trust her again.

NP: Yeah and I think that’s something we’ve got to explore in the second half of season five, is that, so much crazy stuff happens in Haven, all the time. So what do people know and who knows what? We talk about it in the room all the time but it’s not fully explored, because we do so much with our characters. And it is something we got to do a little bit more [5b] because things got so crazy, is how people actually react to it and how do they talk to our characters about it.

BM: Yeah, it was kind of a point of emphasis coming into the season for Matt McGuinness and Gabrielle Stanton, our show runners, was to live in the reality just a little bit more and show how people would really react to some of this stuff. And having a lot of these two-parter episodes where the case of the week extends into the next episode, which allows us just a little bit more real estate to do that kind of thing.

NP: Yeah, just to live in it. This is the most lively farmers’ market.

BM: Absolutely. Not the first time we’ve seen this farmers’ market. We were here in episode, er, four of the first season; Consumed.

NP: Oh yeah. It is so crowded there.

[As Nathan talks to Reggies] BM: Ah, this is Dylan Taylor as Reggie. And we totally stole the name from True Detective which had aired a few months before we shot this episode.

NP: We are huge fans of True Detective.

BM: And we just needed to give some flavour, and a voice to the character, and so we thought, let’s write him a bit like Reggie Ledoux.

[Having never watched True Detective, I looked Reggie Ledoux up; the fandom.com wiki describes him as a “brutal and vile drug dealer” that manufactures meth for a violent criminal biker gang, and an “accomplice and right-hand man” of a serial-killer. Yikes.]

BM: So we called him Reggie and had always intended on changing it but the name had this kind of blue-collar gritty quality and that’s who the character was. Enough that we wrote in that he has a bit of a Southern drawl, or this back-water drawl.

NP: I think back water. He brought the Southern to it, it was nice.

BM: And he really went for it and it totally worked. But we got a call from set on the first day he was there - he’s a great actor, he’s done a load of stuff, he didn’t audition, he didn’t have to, we were lucky to get him - so he shows up and he’s doing this accent and we get a call from the Producer on set. And she’s saying; I don’t know if we have a problem, but Dylan is doing an accent. And we said; Well check the script, it’s in there, it’s going to be great. And we wound up really enjoying his performance, he’s fantastic. Our showrunner Matt, was upset that he meets an untimely end in the next episode because he wanted us to bring Reggie back. He told us not to kill him but we’d already shot that scene where he dies.

NP: Matt wanted Reggie to be the new Guard back guy. Which is a role we’ve kind of rolled from character to character for production reasons in a lot of ways. But Reggie was so good that we were wondering how we could have him come back and be the Guard bad guy.

[The scene where Nathan gets hit by the Trouble] BM: So something bad is about to happen to Nathan. Which was always the plan for the episode; this has actually been in the works for a long time. We referred to this story as Ghost Nathan. Going back to the first season we had a bank of episodes [that we’d like to do]. And a lot of them were ones that we could never produce, but one of them was a ghost one where we figured we could have someone walking through walls and stuff. And I - maybe it’s because of my unabashed love for the movie Ghost - but I always thought we could do a Ghost Nathan episode. And we never had anything we could do with it. It was one of those things you’d pull it out if it worked for the episode. And it did work for this one. Because we needed the Trouble in this episode to do a few things for us. First of all it works because Lucas Bryant is great at selling the ghost of it all. He’s standing in this room with Kirsty, his wife, and she has to ignore him and he has to sell it - they both do. The best special effect in the episode is not people walking through walls or him sticking his hand through the phone, the best effect is the performance. And it’s not an easy thing; everyone ignoring him and him acting like they can’t see him.

NP: Well yeah and in that scene it was just him there and her ignoring him the entire time, but there’s several scenes where we had to shoot two versions; one with Lucas and one without, and then patch them together.

BM: Yeah even this scene [Duke and Audrey looking at Nathan’s shadow on the floor] there are a couple of wide shots where Nathan’s not in it. WhichI think our producers were not super-happy about because it definitely added to the load that we had to shoot. But Audrey and Nathan have been separated for, what six episodes this season, and they’ve just got back together again. And there was a version where we could have gone with a story where they were the power team back together again. But we liked the idea of a bit of a role reversal. That she would be thrust into this position of trying to get him back. And he’s trying to get back to her. And what that did for their characters and for so many other story lines, particularly the other big thing that we had to deal with in this episode that she’s not immune to the Troubles. So we wanted to go with a Trouble that really played to that. So the idea that she can’t see him now, when any other episode before this one she would have been able to. She would have been able to see him if she was immune and it would have blown up the episode. So this was the perfect time to do it, in an episode where, for the first time ever, Audrey is not immune to the Troubles.

NP: And an important detail is that right now, they don’t know what this Trouble is, so she doesn’t know where he is. The supposition is that he’s dead, and we’ve had dead Nathan before but always found ways to bring him back. But because of the way this Trouble works there’s no body, no nothing, so they have no way to bring him back.

BM: And that scene we just saw [Duke and Audrey finding Nathan’s shadow on the floor] there were versions of it that went a lot further in that direction. Where Duke was basically talking about the idea that it looks like Nathan is dead.

NP: Yeah, he’s gone.

BM: And Audrey was fighting back against him. And it was really, really heavy. And we eventually pulled back on it, I think correctly, because Matt and Gab felt that it was just too sad. We did still play with it a little with Duke, he’s still much closer than Audrey is to believing that the worst has happened. And that makes sense because Duke is not quite as romantic, he’s a little bit more of a realist.

NP: Yep.

BM: And he’s already been through a bunch of bad shit already. And he’s beginning to come around to the idea that he’s just lost Nathan; another punch in the series of punches he’s been taking. But Audrey clings a little bit longer. We wanted her to escalate her anger over the course of the episode as she’s starting to consider that it could be maybe legit. But we definitely pulled back on the two of them holding each other and mourning his loss. Just yet.

NP: Yeah, it will grow.

BM: So the other thing we needed to do in this episode, again talking about the realism of it all, is that we felt like it couldn’t be easy for Audrey to be Audrey again, not with everything that Mara had done. And the best way for us to show that was to have actually the Guard be the main threat in this episode. The case of the week is sort of an issue, but the real threat in this episode ends up being, what is the Guard going to do not understanding the Mara/Audrey situation of it all.

NP: Yeah and just having the Guard as the threat is something we talked about for so long at different times. And this was a good way of escalating it at the right time, with Mara having been the threat that she was for so long, and Dwight being out of town. We did not have the wonderful Adam Copeland for these two episodes, so he’s gone and the Guard is doing their own thing in his absence.

BM: Yeah it wasn’t our choice, really, to have no Adam Copeland in this episode. It was just by his schedule, due to his contract, we were just not going to have him for this episode or the next one. So we kind of got stuck with no Adam, but it wound up really working for the story because I don’t think that the Guard threat could have played as well, with them going off the handle, with him around. So it actually wound up being a story that works because Adam’s gone. It’s almost about the fact that he is gone.

NP: This actor is great, who plays Glen.

BM: Yes, his name is Dylan Trowbridge.

NP: Glen named after Glen Holler/Holland [not sure of the spelling]

BM: Our friend Glen. His last name, Andros, is a Stephen King reference. Nick Andros was the deaf character from The Stand.

NP: Perfect. Got to work in those Stephen King references.

[As Audrey arrives at the farmers’ market] BM: Now, Amy the photographer who Audrey is about to talk to is, the Troubled person of the episode. So we had to plant her in the background when we were here a while ago, and now she’s here too. Because we needed the logic to work in the background. And that’s why there’s also some dialogue here about how she had gone home because the Trouble works when she prints out the photo, when she makes the photo final, the way a painter would finish a painting or whatever. So we had established that she had not been here all day but had gone home and printed some of the photos. She must have liked the looks of Nathan. And then here we have Audrey tell her to send her some pictures and she’s got the hard copies in the next episode. So we imagine that right now, Amy is going home, printing out all the photos she has of Reggie. But maybe her printer is out of ink,

NP: Or it takes her a while to get home.

BM: And then she prints it out of course, the second that Audrey has Reggie at gunpoint and so he disappears.

[As Nathan walks up to the crying woman in the graveyard] NP: Oh remember the fun we had coming up with what this woman is going to say?

BM: Oh my gosh yes. We had always intended there to be a bit of a horror movie scare there. Totally helped by the fact that Rob Lieberman, our director for this episode and the next (as well as other Haven episodes) has a ton of experience in that department. He did Fire In The Sky, super-scary movie. And he’s great. So he totally leaned into it. You can even see here [where Nathan’s talking to the ‘ghosts’] all these interesting canted angles and stuff it just feels a little bit moodier and scarier than it otherwise could. Because if you really look at it, it’s a beautiful day. It would have been great if this was nighttime but we couldn’t shoot any of these scenes at night.

NP: And Chris Masterson does a great job here as Morgan, does an incredible job as the ghost guide, the greeting committe, giving Nathan the rundown on how everything operates. And functionally for the logic of the story it’s really important because of what he’s saying about crossing over as your residual self image. Which is stuff that plays to important plot points later in this episode and the next one.

BM: Especially in your episode. This scene was exposition heavy, it was kind of a bear trying to make it as conversational as possible.

NP: But Chris sells it.

BM: He totally does. But yeah a lot of the stuff that Morgan talks about here about the theories of how it works is his understanding, but his understanding is not correct. But it’s what we have to go with for the time being.

NP: Yeah everything he says is true from his point of view, but his understanding is not correct.

BM: Yeah we were lucky to get Chris for this episode. We had his brother, Danny Masterson, last season in your episode 411. He was one of the two Darkside Seekers. The other Darkside Seeker, Kris Lemche, is about to appear in the next episode.

[As we flash back to Nathan talking to Garland’s ghost] BM: Ooh the flashback. In the exact same cemetery. I always wonder why that says Rufus P. Parker there [on the gravestone between Nathan and Garland]. The Parker kind of threw me off.

[Personally I think it says Barker, but it’s an interesting comment anyway:)]

BM: But we’ve got a bunch of flashbacks, little quick ones like that over the course of the season. And it was sort of by design, not knowing, and still not knowing frankly, whether this would be the last season of the show or not. So just in case it was, we sort of wanted to hearken back to previous seasons before and try to connect things a little bit better. And even just seeing what our characters looked like a couple of years ago has a little bit of an emotional whallop to it.

[As Nathan watches Duke frustratedly flicking through the Crocker journal] BM: So we’re coming up on the twist here at the end of this third act that I used to sell the episode. Because the way that it works on our show, and most shows, is that you’ve got the roadmap of the season (the big things that need to happen), this one we knew this was the first one with Audrey and Mara split, and Mara in the hold of the boat. And we didn’t know a ton else about what it was going to be. We knew that we were going to start pushing Mara and Duke’s relationship as they get to know each other and see eye to eye a little bit more, and then in episode 8 a little bit more, and in episode 9 a little bit more. But that was kind of it.

NP: Episodes 7 and 8 to a large extent were about finishing up the story lines from the first half of the season, and this was platforming for everything that was going to happen in the back end.

BM: So we knew that we needed a big Trouble that would take up these two episodes, and we needed it to help us tell some stories about our characters. But the way that we sold this one with the ghost of it all was basically that - from the get-go from pitching it to our show runners and everybody - was that at the half way point of the episode, ghost!Nathan and Duke are in here and they’re talking to Mara, and Duke leaves, and then she reveals that she can see Nathan. And that was the turning point of the episode. If we’ve done our jobs well enough maybe not everyone saw it coming, I think that a good amount of people probably did see it coming. But it helped us in a lot of ways, it really turned the screws on the Mara story really quickly.

NP: Yep.

BM: Now she’s even more in control because she’s the only person who can see Nathan. And that tells us that Nathan’s not really dead of course. And it tells Nathan that he’s the victim of a Trouble. But it also helped us tell a story about the fact that Mara’s immune to the Troubles and Audrey is not. Which was the big thing that we needed to tackle. And what better way to do it than the fact that Audrey can’t see Nathan and the only person who can, is Mara.

NP: That’s it.

BM: So once we had that as the middle twist of the episode, everyone was on board. There was no going back then.

NP: And the back half of that is something maybe we’ll talk about more in 508 but, because Mara is immune and can see him, how does Audrey use her lack of immunity to her benefit.

BM: Absolutely. The end point of this episode is really about Audrey bottoming out a little bit. We wanted to get her to a place where she kind of has to confess that she is not who she once was, and she maybe can’t do this anymore because she’s lost her, superpower (for lack of a better term). And then the next episode is where she gets her groove back to some extent, and realises that it’s not about her immunity, it’s about whatever she does with whatever she has at her disposal. And she ends up using her lack of immunity to her advantage. So this episode was sort of the Empire Strikes Back, then you’ve got the Return of the Jedi.

NP *sounding doubtful* Well…

BM: Don’t think about it.

NP: Oh there’s Reggie . And I love the other backup Guard member who looks very much like Jordan McKee from previous seasons.

BM: She looks just like her.

[Me: *squints doubtfully at the screen*]

BM: Her name is Justine [I can’t catch the surname]. She has worked on the show in the past and she’s great. She had some lines at some point in time. And a name, I feel like her characters’ name was Riley. And then it ended getting cut because there was just too much going on in the episode and too many people. I should also say while we’re talking about the Guard, that Mitchell, who is coming back to our show, was in episodes three and four. He was a bit of a late addition to those; we were trying to bring back as a returning Guardsman, the guy from episode 403, Bad Blood, but he wasn’t available. So we created a new Guardsman, as Mitchell. And then we brought him back for this episode which was great.

NP: We just needed to have someone with some animosity towards Nathan and the police department who was a more militant member of the Guard.

BM: Absolutely. And we actually tried to bring Mitchell back a couple episodes from now and then he wasn’t available. So we had to go with another person, so it was a bit of a case of musical chairs of Guard members.

[Nathan talking to the two ‘ghosts’ in the graveyard] NP: And Nathan here is revealing the truth.

BM: Yeah. It’s kind of classic. We had been a little bit worried that in the previous acts there was really just that one stretch of 10 minutes where Nathan thinks he’s dead. And no one wanted him to lose his drive, because he should always be trying to figure out what’s going on. But now that he knows that he’s the victim of a Trouble, he’s in Nathan mode. And is going to do whatever he can.

NP: He’s got Case Face now.

BM: Absolutely. But again a lot of this and Morgan’s attitude on hearing what Nathan has to say, pays off more in the next episode. It’s laying the groundwork for the fact that maybe not everyone wants to go back. It’s a little of the insitutionalised thing; a bit of a Shawshank Redemtion thing here that if you get used to living this way maybe you don’t want to go back. Although as we’ll discover in 508, Morgan has a pretty good reason for not wanting to go back.

NP: A very good, if selfish, reason.

BM: Yeah, but you can’t blame him. And that’s what you’re looking for in your motivation for a bad guy. Where when you find out why they’re doing what they’re doing you feel like you’d probably do the same thing.

[As Audrey is pointing her gun at Reggie] BM: Reggie here is a bit lighter on motivation. He’s just a bad guy. But you don’t really stop to think about it because Dylan is so good.

NP: He just sells it.

BM: But even here, his little speech here was important to me to get his POV across a little bit. Which, from his stand point, Audrey has caused all of this to happen, which she did. And then she was Mara, and now she says she’s Audrey but she can’t be trusted; bad things are happening. So why should he listen to her? I put myself in Reggie’s shoes and realised that if the show was about the Guard, Audrey and Nathan would be the bad guys.

NP: Yeah. I also love the aspect of that scene there where Reggie is down on his knees at the mercy of Audrey, much like in his final scene in True Detective, on his knees at the mercy of someone there.

BM: Yeah, totally ripped that off too.

NP: I think there was an earlier version of the script where Nathan runs out of the van there and it drives through him.

*Both being amused at the intense level of concentration on Nathan’s face as he watches Bishop tap the security code into the door*

BM: What you don’t see, is that you have to imagine that in his head for the rest of this scene Nathan is just thinking to himself like; 1283. 1283. Gotta remember the code. 1283. That is why we had it be a four-digit code because if it was six it would be harder to remember. But I love the look of Guard HQ here. Remember Rob Lieberman was totally responsible for it. He mentioned to us when we were on the phone to us, he said; I’m going out on a limb here but I’m thinking like the movie Children of Men. And we were both like; Could not love Children of Men more, please do it.

NP: Such a moody and gritty feel.

BM: But if you recognise a bit of the layout and architecture of the hallway we just saw and the long room here [where Mitchell has Audrey tied to a chair in front of the desk that Bishop’s Trouble disintergrates], this is actually the same building that we used the interior of for the Barn at the end of season three and briefly in season four. I think this is the second floor of that building. The first floor is painted all white, every inch of it, because it was the Barn. And up here it’s the exact same layout but now it’s Guard HQ.

BM: Now poor Bishop.

NP: He has got a rough, rough Trouble

BM: So we imagined that he would have to be one of these people wearing gloves, and that they would have to be these chemical resistant ones because he’s got this acid touch. So then it’s like well he’s going to look silly wearing these giant gloves. Because those gloves are real, they can actually protect against any sort of corrosive acid. So we figured he should be wearing coveralls as well so it kind of matches, so it seems like he’s an industrial type guy. But the actor must have been burning alive because this was the middle of summer in Nova Scotia which means that it was about 90 degrees.

[Nathan talking to Mara again in the hold] BM: So this scene here, in a way is the climax of the episode. At least it was for me. This is where the shit hits the fan. Nathan comes to her with his plan for her to tell Duke what’s happening to Audrey. She says no, and then it’s about getting her to help. And then it all just fell into place; it seemed like the right story to tell about Audrey and Mara. And to be evolving what is Mara’s relationship to them now that she is her own person. Because she’s only going to do what’s in her best interest. And she keeps holding this card over their heads as to whether she’s connected or not. And we went into this season knowing that they weren’t connected, knowing that hurting Mara wasn’t going to hurt Audrey (unlike the thing with William) but that question comprises the entirety of this episode. Because we realised the characters don’t know that. So a lot of this is Duke trying to figure out whether she is or not. And Mara withholding her knowledge. So then we knew that the last beat in this episode would be Mara revealing the truth. Because at that point she doesn’t need them to wonder whether she’s connected or not because she’s got something better, which is that now she knows they need her to help Nathan.

NP: Well and that’s always what her bargaining chip is, that she can’t threaten them with anything, it’s all about the knowledge she possesses.

BM: And the actors all did a great job with this scene. There are takes where Nathan’s there, and when he’s not. But it all really worked. And she is just the right amount of funny in this scene.

NP: And cruel.

BM: Because she’s still enjoying messing with them, and it worked out really well. It really worked out really well. And here, what Eric had to play is realising that Nathan is alive again, but also realising that Audrey’s in Trouble. It’s not as easy as the three of them make it look. But it’s amazing because we have our three leads, they’re back in the same room together, they do this every day for years. But now, she’s the bad guy, Nathan’s a ghost, and Eric has no idea what’s going on. So I was really excited about being able to write a scene - and this is a three or four page scene - with all them in the room together but everything is different from how it usually is.

NP: Yeah, and this was one of the ones that had to be shot twice.

BM: And the other story that we’re telling in this episode is Audrey’s relationship to the town, and them not trusting her, is she lying about who she is, and all this doubt that everyone would have about her, after having lived through the tyranny of Mara for a while. And so the thing that we wanted to do in this scene [as Bishop is dissolving the desk] is kind of to some extent close that story off. It still comes up a bunch of times throughout the season, but she does something here, or could do something here, that proves to them that she is Audrey. She has a kind of I Am Sparticus Moment; I am Audrey Parker. It seemed a little cheesy in the script but Emily totally sells it. And that I Am Audrey Parker moment was an important one for us.

NP: Absolutely.

BM: We started this episode with her kind of in this fetal position trying to grapple with what she is now, finding she’s not immune, what is her identity now. So it felt important to us that she get to a different place by the next episode.

NP: Well yeah because there’s a sense in which her superpower is immunity to the Troubles, but really, on an emotional level, her superpower is her empathy for everybody and understanding what they’re going through. So she’s like; I totally get why you did what you did, so you’re going to be OK. Forgiveness is her thing.

BM: I never noticed that Duke brings Mara a can of food there. That wasn’t in the script. I’ve seen this episode a bunch of times and I never noticed that before, but it makes sense.

[As Mara is cutting her wrist with the chains] BM: We had a bit of an issue here because we knew that we wanted her to cut herself to prove that her and Audrey aren’t connected, but it was only when we were about to start shooting we realised; how is she going to cut herself when she’s chained up? So we had her use one of the chains, and it might be impossible to do in real life, but Emily totally sold it.

NP: Yep, she gets it.

BM: And I love this. We basically get three episodes of Mara in the hold of Duke’s boat. And I love them all. We always thought of it as the Hannibal Lecter scenes and the power play of it between her and Duke, and it really starts to work very well I think in these last two scenes. And super well in episode 8.

NP: It was fun. And I think one of the challenges of this is that we knew she was going to be chained up in the hold, and so the challenge is how do you differentiate each scene, and each episode, and what is the arc for each one? And so we really had to bear down on what they were going to be about.

BM: Well it was kind of a story unto itself, and here she tells us just a little bit that she’s actually affected by it, when she admits that she liked it when they said they needed her. Is she telling the truth, is she not - Duke doesn’t pay her any mind at all and walks out, but what is she thinking, what is she doing? Is she warming to Duke a little bit or does she have some angle that she’s playing - that’s the question we wanted everyone to be asking.

NP: And that’s the question we live in a lot in 508.

[Audrey talking to a ghost!Nathan (kind of) in her apartment] BM: So this scene also just fell into place really naturally. We knew that Nathan’s ghost situation was not going to be resolved at the end of this episode. And we knew that our first Audrey/Nathan scene in that bed over there was this tender scene, and I wanted to get them back in that same room and have them be in the room together but as far apart as possible. And all of the circumstances they have to deal with have kept them apart - again. And so she thinks that he’s there, but doesn’t know for sure that he is. And they’re both great in this scene.

NP: Again credit to both of the actors for selling this, that she’s talking to him but not looking at him.

BM: Yeah I talked to them about it, they really enjoyed doing it because it’s a really heartfelt scene between the two of them and she’s confessing this doubt that she has (and she’s a very confident person) and they’re both there together but she has no idea whether she’s even there or not. And he knows that she can’t hear him. So he’s watching her go through this. And it’s a scene between the two of them that is unlike anything else, in its DNA that we had been able to do before now. So it felt like an opportunity and I think they both felt that way too.

NP: Yep, love this scene.

BM: But we also just wanted them to bottom out a little bit here because then episode 8 is kind of the come back

NP: The Return of the Jedi as you so nicely put it.

BM: Exactly. We unfreeze him from carbonite. We go fight in the forest.

NP: There’s some Ewoks. It’s great.

[Nathan back in the graveyard for the final scene] BM: So this was always the end of the episode, picking up the ghost case of it all. And we always wanted, right on the back of Nathan being confident that he’s safe and he’s going to take care of it, to then come over here and see that his Deputy Glen has been killed. And we always wanted to have this message left for him [“Even ghosts can die”] scrawled on the grave. And we landed on that one pretty quickly because it couldn’t be too long.

NP: And it sets us up nicely for 508.

BM: Thanks for listening everybody, we will see you again for 508.

#haven 5 #haven dvd commentaries #5.07 - Nowhere Man #havensyfy #i always start out intending to summarise more #but it's actually eaiser a lot of the time to just type out what they say rather than stopping to think about how best to describe it #so i don't often manage to condense much #and these guys talk QUICKLY #so there is a lot of stuff here #long post

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