#whether this happens bc all those that truly loved them is dead

[anteomnia]

tragic hero, but they survive.

tragic hero, but they live. they live, but they never get to Be. they’re the folk hero, the savior, the one who is always expected to save the day. they don’t die, but they don’t truly exist outside of the dutiful, renown hero, so they don’t live beyond their deeds.

surviving, but existence only being what others want or need, saving everyone else all the time? it feels like a form of tragedy to me.

[eerna]

I came across one of your posts about tdp (they're great btw I really like reading them) and one of the tags talked about how the show writers treat Callum like a vile character whose done evil things when he hasn't. Can you elaborate on that? And do you think there's a huge difference between on how the show and fandom treat Callum and rayla?

Aww thanks~ Sure, I don't mind elaborating!

So Callum. This show has a problem where the characters have no logical progress, they just do whatever the plot needs them to do, and Callum is a great example of this. Callum is meant to be an awkward average guy who feels like he doesn't belong anywhere. He's the adopted son of the royal family, which means he's not a peasant who is born into a career, but neither is he a real prince, since he is passed over in the inheritance line. He's not good at being a warrior, or a leader, or any other things that might guarantee him a place in court. Things change when he discovers he has a talent for magic, but since he is human and can't connect to an arcanum, he is forced to choose between letting this one useful thing he's good at go, or doing the "evil" dark magic. An interesting character setup: will he go against what he believes is right to realize his full potential? I wonder where this arc will go! The answer is nowhere, he becomes the first human in history to be able to connect to true arcanum magic the way magical creatures do. Okay, so here is his second character setup: the one and only creature in the world who can connect to EVERY arcanum at once! He will spend each season learning how to connect to different arcanums, and through him, we as the audience will understand the world better. That is exciting, as it's something the magical creatures can't do! Except THAT'S also abandoned right away, and his THIRD setup pretends it never happened and we return to a continuation of the first setup: will he join the dark side and become a vessel for the evil guys to use, will he fall into the same trap of "I would do anything for those I love" as the villains? This could be interesting, but it is now over halfway through the story, so the writers have to resort to cheap writing tricks to make the stakes higher and the tension more real. You see, Callum's "downward spiral" relies on him making bad choices for the right reason, but those bad choices aren't truly bad because the writers are scared of writing a hero who messes up for real. Those bad choices are using dark magic twice, but both times he used it out of selflessness, as a personal sacrifice to save Rayla. He used an already dead ingredient to turn some chains into snakes to save his friend... twice. Both times Rayla reacts as if he'd just slaughtered a whole herd of adorable magical baby deer in front of her. The Starscraper elves say his soul is dark and he has been consumed by evil. The only logical reprimand is given by Sol Regem, who just says "I can smell you've done dark magic before" and gets upset bc Sol Regem is a racist asshole character so it makes sense a single whiff of human magic would anger him. But these other characters are meant to be 100% correct in their assessment of Callum's morality. There is no discussion of whether the end justifies the means, there is no nuance or suggestion that maybe a dead bug is worth saving a life, Callum has done something objectively wrong and should never repeat it again. Here it all dissolves into the age old "is dark magic as presented in TDP morally ok" discourse, which I won't rehash here bc it is well discussed and the TL;DR is: no, TDP didn't do a good job setting dark magic up as an inflexible evil, but the story still acts as if it is one. And it is dumb, because Callum doesn't need to do dark magic to make mistakes! Several times throughout the season I thought they were gonna put him at odds with the rest of the cast, and maybe mess up and "fall into darkness" that way. For example, I thought that when everyone disagreed with him on the topic of destroying Aaravos' prison, he was going to defy everyone out of paranoia (since he is the most sensitive one about this subject) and accidently cause Aaravos' escape that way. But no, they don't even argue over it before finding a solution that makes everyone happy and it turns out that Aaravos was freed by a series of contrivances that tell us nothing new or interesting about any character involved in it, which is CLEARLY a much better story.

This third storyline gets even more muddled by Callum choosing to do the Starscraper Morality Challenge or whatever it's called to try and fix the damage dark magic did to his soul. Okay, so we've established that Callum's love for Rayla makes him act in morally questionable ways, which led to his soul deteriorating, and now this ritual will help him find his way back from it. And so the ritual reveals that he can redeem himself if he focuses on... wait. Am I reading this right? The answer to his issues is RAYLA????? So this means that somehow, loving Rayla is both the reason for his evil deeds, and a way for him not to do evil deeds??? I suppose the story could be saying that loving Rayla doesn't mean doing whatever it takes to save her, but listening to her advice and trusting her when she says she doesn't want to be saved by dark magic, but that is just such a dumb character arc that isn't about Callum or his character arc in the least. His way to deal with his issues has nothing to do with his realizing his potential, it has nothing to do with his journey of connecting to the arcanums. It is a "man needs a woman to act normal" story, and that is just plain dumb and boring and no proper character arc.

And here we transition into your second question. I am not sure what exactly you meant, so feel free to clarify, but I will do my best to answer as is. I think that Rayla and Callum are treated by the fandom EXACTLY the same way as by the show, but sadly this means they suck (it is no secret I was super duper into shipping them once upon a time, so no one is allowed to call me a hater over this opinion). The first two seasons were fine, but from s3 onwards their relationship also faces a lack of a proper arc. In the beginning it seemed like the emotional, gentle Callum was going to de-radicalize the cold, emotionally constipated Rayla and teach her the joys of having people who care for her as a person and not just a weapon. However, this was quickly abandoned for reasons listed in my Runaan family post - Rayla needed a quick escape from her emotional issues to remove any bad parenting responsibility from Runaan and Ethari's backs. From then on their writing problems are a mix of the previously mentioned "characters doing what the plot needs them to do" issue and playing into fan shipping expectations. And thus when they start dating in s3 it is in the blandest, most boring way possible. They are super happy together, they have no friction, Rayla is suddenly more than happy to be emotionally open. Then the plot needs them separated, so she remembers she is supposed to have emotional issues and leaves. Then the plot needs them back together so they start dating. None of this is supported by a logical arc. S3 and onwards reads like a fanfic in the most negative way possible. The "frozen ship" monologue from s6 made me feel like my brain was actively trying to escape my skull, so I KNOW the crew working on the show is aware of the fan perception and are actively playing into them on purpose. Fan tropes are perfect in the context of fanworks, but they also make canon material worse.

Whew. This was long. But Yeah that's basically what I have to say about that.

[dulcewrites]

Whole different type of delusion that I see in this fandom is how helaemond shippers act. All they say is everyone should support Helaena cheating on her unfaithful husband because if you someone doesn't, it's misogynistic, but when you mention Alicent having sex with Criston in season 2 they are furious and say Alicent is not Rhaenyra to sleep around 😂

For them it's like helaemond makes sense because Helaena was smarter than Rhaenyra so no one knew Aemond's the father.

And then when you point out they behave exactly like daemyra stans they are surprised 😂

I knew Alys will be hated in fandom because of 2 things. By Blacks because she was better Queen at Harrenhall than Rhaenyra was for 6 months time and Alys have no supporters and no dragon and no Aemond by her side because he was dead then. And by Greens because she is the opposite of Alicent and Helaena who are stuck and doomed and living in the cage.

But the one truly doomed is in fact Alys. She is lowborn bastard and women, so she means nothing and can be used by her family as they please. And yet she survives and makes the best out of Dance. All without any political machinations, she just took power over Harrenhall and no one took it away from her. If this isn't the best character of this show I don't know who may be.

I think in general people in this fandom, and this is something I must remind myself as well, need to program their brains to stop relating every single thing that happens to a woman in this story to a man. Especially romantically

It is pretty clear that one major point at the base of hotd is patriarchy and how way men often use the girls/women in their lives as pawns or martyrs. Whether people think it was well done or not is their choice, but it is clearly there. That conversation I get, and think we need to have. But the way people are so hellbent on ‘pairing’ women in this story with someone, specifically men, can get exhausting.

Why is the most horrid thing that happens in the dance, something that fundamentally breaks Helaena as a person turned into an argument to either uplift/tear down Aegon or Aemond?? Why is her taking her own life out of grief and fear about her brother(s)???

Why does Alicent, someone who clearly has been through sexual trauma in her life at the hands of men - someone who already has creepy psychosexual relationships with men in her life, have to sleep with criston?? Hell, why does criston someone that’s been taken advantage of by nobility (depending on how you read that scene in ep 4) have to sleep with Alicent, his queen???

If Helaena wants to be unfaithful to her husband, I will support her bc Aegon is not a good husband lmao. But the idea she needs to be with her brother, and he had those kids with her is… very odd to me. I don’t see it and idc if that makes me a hater. In general, I think people’s insistence on taking one of the few targ characters that doesn’t have incest as a major footnote in his story (Aemond) and making him into someone he isn’t, is annoying.

People (rightfully) point out how horrible targaryen girls/women are treated but then perpetuate the one thing that has led to many targ women’s downfall: The idea that they are property to the men in their family.

As for alys, she was going to be hated on several reasons : 1. Ageism (people call show and book Alicent a hag despite show Alicent being in her 30s and book Alicent being in her 40s). 2. The fact that aemond is now the fandom fanfic bike aka he gets ridden/shipped with everyone and him having a canon love interest pisses people off. 3. Low born or bastard born women get treated very differently by the fanbase than their male counterparts. 4. The murky relationship between her and Aemond. Now as someone who is excited to see where they take alysmond, even I can understand why people may put off by it. First you have the age difference on the side of her taking advantage of him. Especially now that in the show it has been implied Aemond delt with his own s.a. But by the time they meet, Aemond is Prince Regent. Clearly in a position of power over her. It is dubious and it’s ok to point that out.

But I’m sure as hell not gonna be reprimanded by daemrya or helaemond shippers on that. They clearly don’t give a shit about what is above board 💀💀. At at the very least, every alysmond shipper I’ve personally come across is very open and clear about alys and Aemond’s relationship, and the possible stipulations. I can’t say the same for the other two camps.

Every woman in this story, nobility or low born, has been through shit. That’s the whole point and the bitch of patriarchy. It affects every woman to a certain degree. Of course someone like Rhaenyra or Alicent has lived a very different life than Alys, and that needs to pointed out. All women are not on equal playing field. But all of them have been trapped or stuck at one point or another. How these women maneuver this world is important because of how differently each live, which is why it is dumb when people advocate for their stories to be cut (Sara, nettles, alys). These characters being vehemently hated by ANYONE is weird asf to me.

I enjoy team green, I write for team green, but people take this ‘team’ stuff too seriously sometimes. Well.. when it comes to the women. The male characters can get it lmao. I personally don’t like the rhetoric around how most women in story get spoken about. People are so focused on whose winning or shipping that the point of the story gets lost. And frankly regurgitating the same points and arguments sucks the fun out a show…shame. If people hate everything about it or have to make up crazy theories for it to work… just don’t watch 🤷🏽‍♀️🤷🏽‍♀️

[malka-lisitsa]

❝ 𝙺𝙰𝚃𝙴𝚁𝙸𝙽𝙰 : sister, mother and survivor. many of you heard rumors about her. there are stories about who katherine pierce is from chicago all the way to new orleans. some  call  her  a  vile  human  turned  even  viler  vampire;  others  cling  to  the  notion  that  a  shred  of  humanity  still  lingers  within  her,  despite  the  five  centuries  that  have  elapsed. at least on the records. but  we’re  here  today  not  to  sift  through  the  rubble  of  rumors,  but  to  remember  her.  katerina,  who,  against  all  reason,  chose  to  believe  in  love.  katerina,  who  dared  to  stand  against  niklaus  —  a  name  i’m  sure  echoes  ominously  in  the  french  quarter.  katerina,  who  played  dead  more  times  than  anyone  could  keep  track  of,  leaving  even  the  most  cunning  among  us  perplexed.  katerina,  who  killed  as  needed  and  protected  what  truly  mattered.  she  was  as  miserable  as  the  rest  of  us,  clinging  to  life  by  any  means  necessary.  because,  let’s  be  honest,  self-sacrifice  is  vastly  overrated.  why  throw  yourself  on  the  pyre  when  the  future  may  yet  require  your  services?  why  feel  pain  when  you  can  make  others  feel  it  for  you?  morticia,  my  mother,  once  placed  katerina  on  a  pedestal,  elevating  her  to  the  ideal  of  what  a  woman  could  be  if  she  dared  to  reject  societal  norms.  it  pains  me  to  say  this,  but  mother  was  right.  katerina  was  many  things,  but  to  me,  she  was  family.  the  kind  of  family  that  runs  away  but  always  returns.  the  kind  you  torment  and  mutilate,  knowing  full  well  that  retribution  will  come,  swift  and  brutal.  the  kind  that  speaks  plainly  and  avoids  the  charade  of  white  lies.  the  kind  that  stands  behind  you  after  you've  murdered  the  wrong  person,  watching  as  you  endure  the  consequences  before  deciding whether or not to take action.  and  let  me  remind  you  all,  doing  nothing  is  an  action  in  itself.  so,  this  is  for  her  —  the  one  who  defies  the  imbecilic  norms  of  the  world.  she  isn’t  dead,  but  i  lost  a  bet,  so  i’m  obligated  to  eulogize  her.  did  everyone  here  SEE & LISTEN  to  the  powerpoint  i  just  presented? ❞

dash response bc im a katherine defender & a november defender, you're both the best gals mwah

It's not the kind of thing she's used to hearing.

Evil slut vampire, self centered whore, incapable of loving anyone but herself. That everything that's happened to her is her own fault.

Those are the things she's used to.

If she's honest it's a little scary hearing anything else. See, it's easy to hide behind those imposed titles and by now it's almost a comfort as much as it is painful. It makes it easier for her to pretend she is evil so it hurts less when other's deem her such for doing what she has to do to survive.

But to hear someone defend her?

To remind her of the heart beating in her chest (however slowly) and her view on love that's almost her own religion? To understand her fears and desires and not demonize them is to SEE HER AND HEAR HER and it's not something she is used to.

It's hard for her to hide the expression on her face, she isn't sure what to do with this. She's so used to defending herself to deaf ears that hearing someone stand up for her in any fashion is jarring and confusing. It almost makes her lash out, not because she's hurt but because she just doesn't know what to do with this. Comfort, understanding, defending, loyalty- these are not her normal.

So when Katherine replies to all of this, it's not in a conventional way you might expect someone like Elena to reply with. It's her own language, her own defensive communication... but trust me when she says-

"You're a little weirdo you know that right?"

She really means thank you for seeing the real me.

OMG NO BC THIS WAS BEAUTIFUL KATHERINE HAD NO IDEA WHAT TO DO WITH IT <3333 thank you for loving us so much we adore you <3333

[1d1195]

I know how it’s probably just hard to process of all this!! Especially since they were your life and comfort for so long and probably during a time where having them was so critical! I obviously don’t know the lore or anything but it’s hard to deny whether he was a favorite or not that his passing especially with how young he was is shocking! And don’t even get me started on the fucking media it’s absolutely horrendous especially when profiting from people’s misfortunes! So yeah it’s definitely so complicated because in so many ways! it’s like you might be mourning all of those moments! I can only imagine how it feels to be in this position as a fan especially given how it may not have been such a smooth joinery :( it’s alright to feel these things and it’s not dumb at all because they were and in some ways still so impactful to you and so many people! Only so many words can express your love for them in that moment!

I really do wish you’re okay though! I of course wanted to check in because I was SHOCKED when I saw! Plus Sam you’re my bestie! How can I not check up on you?! Anyways my love wishing you such lovely vibes and a big hug💕💕💕-💜

Btw I will for sure update on my week bc it’s been crazy but definitely want to write it when I have more time! Just truly wanted to see if you were okay❤️ Miss you lots!

I feel really bad for his family and friends of course. But I feel especially bad for Louis. Louis' grief of losing his mom and sister in a short span of time and now someone he looked at like a brother. That's so much. I worry about Louis more than almost anyone and I don't even know him. Sorry that's so weird and para-social of me. But anyway.

I had a lot of people in my life message me and check on me which was cute in it's own way. I hate to be all morbid and weird but every once in a while I remember this statistic/thing that like you're forgotten after 4 generations (maybe we talked about this already when we talked about Day of the Dead?) and I find that so sad. Tbh I don't think I'm that memorable in real life (I know, I know; I hate to say it but I think you're biased 😉) but whenever anything happens with 1D everyone I've ever interacted with remembers to message me and I think that's sweet. So it's nice that I had/have 1D in my life if only because it made me a little less forgotten by people I knew. Maybe that's selfish of me, idk. I read what Louis said about Liam and I was trying to read it out loud to my sister and I got all choked up. Couldn't even read what Zayn wrote to her out loud.

I love you so so much! Thank you for checking on me! I want to give you a big hug right back 💕

Def want to hear the update on your week. I could use a good Hot TA moment to cheer me up. Hopefully he didn't wear a shirt to class 😍 I'm going to be MIA this weekend I think but I'm looking forward to your update! Did I tell you about the stand-alone interconnected book series I read that was like ex-marines over the summer? (I might not have because it has inspired an upcoming fic.) Anyway, the newest book comes out Saturday and I think it'll be the perfect pickup.

Sorry for rambling, I like don't think any of these thoughts were connected. But I genuinely don't know how to connect them either lol

xoxo

[nimata-beroya]

I often compare Tech's "death" with Kanan's in Rebels. You're right in saying that Tech, if he needs to stay dead, then the writers should've dedicated more attention to the aftermath of his death and allow the audience to accept it and mourn him properly. There was too much happening in the finale to do that. It's lazy writing, poor pacing.

I think that's one of the reason for which, even as heartbreaking as it is, I'm not mad at Kanan dying. Rebels dedicated a whole episode to the crew grieving his passing. The characters worked to accept the unthinkable, and so did the audience. Besides, Kanan's death had many more purposes than just for the shock factor and the trope of sacrificing himself for the loved ones. It was the final piece of learning for Ezra to what the "no attachment" Jedi rule truly means, to let go. It was what drove it home. Without that happening, Ezra would've had much more trouble resisting temptation when Palpatine offered him to be back with his parents. If he had failed that, then probably he wouldn't have sacrifice himself too, taking Thrawn out of the picture (and yeeting them both to Peridea). If Thrawn had stayed in the GFFA, then the Alliance might've not won the war (or at least, it would've been way, way, wayyyyyyyyy harder). Kanan's DEATH impacted the entire future of the galaxy.

And that's without mentioning how many times those next episodes it was emphasized that Kanan was truly dead. Over and over again. And one more time just for good measure. Tech's broken glasses are not enough proof. Too many characters have come back after a more graphic evidence of "death" for that to be convincing.

But back to my point, in contrast, yes, Tech's sacrifice saved his siblings, but the impact ends there. Because what mattered was the SACRIFICE, the act of detaching the other cart, so the batch could escape. Whether Tech is alive or dead is irrelevant for the plot after that. It won't change the determination of Hunter, Wrecker, Echo to find Omega. It won't change Rex's willingness to help (bc if Tech was with the Batch alive and well, Rex would help anyway). Whatever the boys do this season wouldn't have to change if Tech was with them.

See the difference? Kanan HAD TO stay dead, but Tech doesn't need to. Because if Tech is alive (insert here your favorite theory of how he survived) and he's the key to find Omega and Crosshair and/or defeat Hemlock and the imps, that's a different story.

Well, all this is to say that I agree with @eriexplosion. The writers did a poor job writing a convincing death for Tech, and that's why I'm in the same level of denial I was the moment I finished watching the season 2 finale. And at this point, I think they'll have to show me his decaying corpse for me to believe it. And even then, I might not.

The thing about Tech's fall is that I've seen about 3 dozen polls over the past year on if people think he's Alive or not and the absolute highest I have ever seen the "dead" option get was a straight 50/50 on a site where the majority of people actively wanted him to be dead for Stakes. Most of them though only range from 20-30% thinking he's gone.

So the elephant in the room is that if he is dead then it's bad writing. Not because you can't kill characters but because if you do kill one and cannot convince more than half your audience that he's actually dead then however sad and well executed the scene might be in isolation, you wrote a bad character death. Whether it didn't follow from the plot or it wasn't written in a believable way, or any other reason that people might not believe it, you cannot have a well written character death that can't convince a majority of the audience that it's real.

And I just don't think they're that bad at writing! I don't think they'd be so lazy with the first major character death that they fail to make it feel final and believable! Tech is as beloved by the writers as he is by us, that much is clear, and I think that if he was dead his death would get the attention it deserved rather than happening and then never getting properly addressed for the rest of the episode because too much is happening at once. And I think that if he was dead, they'd have made it completely clear from the jump that he was.

[hamliet]

With that Phantom Troupe backstory coming out, do you think it's more or less likely that Hisoka will succeed in killing them all? (Bc of that trope of giving a backstory before killing a character). The whole setup of this arc screams that at least a few more members are going to die, but do you think there's a chance for a TPK?

Alas, I do not know what a TPK is! :(

I don't necessarily think the point of this flashback is For the Sadz Before Deaths. I generally think that's pretty mediocre writing, and Togashi's better than that. This flashback has a far weightier feel to it than just a cheap sucker punch, in other words.

I think the point of this flashback is to again establish Chrollo as Kurapika's shadow, and to point towards the likely resolution of this arc. If what @aspoonofsugar theorizes is true (which someone suggested to me way back in 2018 too), and I think there's a pretty damn good chance of this, then we've got an entirely new perspective on Chrollo... albeit one with hints along the way. Either way, the set-up of this flashback, with it focusing on Chrollo, seems to indicate that the point of it is to make the audience ponder about revenge and to see Chrollo and Kurapika as two sides of the same coin.

We know what made Kurapika lose his idealism. What made Chrollo lose his? That's what this flashback seems destined to show us. If the Sheila theory is true, it's probably the final domino... I doubt it was the beginning. We're probably about to see what those disappointments were that turned him into such a hardline utilitarian to where he'll find his identity with his troupe, but not ever say he loves them like he did before.

All that said: Hisoka is absolutely not going to kill all of them. In addition to what I said above, that's just not how Togashi tends to solve issues in his stories; the journeys matter more. What is more likely is that Chrollo and Kurapika almost certainly are going to have to work together to escape the boat; Kurapika will have to choose between the living (Oito and Woble) and the dead (Pairo's eyes), and Chrollo will have to choose between the people he has left and revenge.

However, I do think it is very likely some Troupe members are about to die. Chrollo kind of has to lose more people to get the wakeup call, because right now he's all about revenge. The ironic thing is that Hisoka's actions are calling Chrollo on his precise hypocrisy: the fact that he truly loves the Spiders. Is he going to choose to save them, or continue revenge and lose everything?

Considering he's Kurapika's shadow and you integrate with your shadow, you don't kill it, my guess is that as Chrollo loses more members and more stability, and comes into contact with Kurapika (who will probably also find out about Sheila, if that's what really happened), he'll eventually decide to choose to live. Kurapika will probably choose the same. But they'll only get to live if they integrate (aka work together).

If you want to know whom I'm currently worried about, any Spider except Chrollo, Kalluto, and Illumi. Those kids all have plot armor.

But my concerns are primarily for Shizuku, Bololenov, and Franklin, because they are far less developed, and Nobunaga, because he's gotten a lot of focus in recent chapters. See, Nobunaga, Machi, Feitan, and Phinks have more ties to the philosophical debate raging inside Chrollo--they, along with Paku, were the five who debated whether or not to save Chrollo from Kurapika back in Yorknew. Machi and Nobunaga represent Chrollo's genuine care, while Feitan and Phinks represented his utilitarianism.

But Nobunaga's focus lately really does concern me, and I wonder if how he might die will prove important for Chrollo making this decision...

[syn0vial]

Oh okay, I got one that I've been meaning to look up but keep forgetting to. So you've talked a little bit about Boba's time in the sarlacc before, and how it was... hallucinogenic? Or telepathic or something, and it showed him horrible things and played with his mind. But how did he get out?! And how did he survive for so long? Or was he not actually in there for too much time and it just seemed like forever for him? You'd think he'd die of dehydration or digestive acid would kill him, but do the books actually go into how he got around that or do they just kind of skip over it so they can focus on how it was mentally torturing him?

oh man, thank you for giving me an excuse to talk about the sarlacc! i love that horrible torture pit :3

so, to answer your questions:

how long was boba actually in the sarlacc pit?

honestly, probably no longer than a few days—maybe a week or two at most. due to the physical agony he's in and the sarlacc's psychic fuckery, it feels a lot longer to him—to the point where, when he finally gets out, he's genuinely unsure whether he might've been down there for months or even years. however, by the time he claws his way out and is found by dengar, the surrounding area suggests not that much time has past. the wreckage of jabba's barge is still there, though picked clean by jawas, the corpses of those killed in the battle still stink, and some of the critters jabba kept around for snacks are also still alive. though i don't think we get an exact time-frame afaik, these factors suggest to me that only a few days have passed.

2. how do boba and the sarlacc's other victims survive for long periods of time?

now, although boba himself was only in the sarlacc pit for a few days, it is true that there are victims within who have been in there for far longer—some, whom the sarlacc claims have indeed been there for centuries or millennia. where things get complicated is that, in at least some of these cases, it's their consciences (or at least echoes of them) that are still present in the sarlacc, even while their bodies have long since been destroyed.

let me explain. when someone falls into the sarlacc pit, their physical bodies start being digested. this does, indeed, seem to take a very long time and the victims perhaps live longer than one would expect otherwise. the mechanism by which their lives are extended is not explained, though at a guess, perhaps the sarlacc secretes some sort of substance that slows their metabolic processes, delaying things like starvation and dehydration. further extending the process is the fact that, when the sarlacc decides that it likes someone, it will intentionally digest them piece-by-piece instead of all at once. case-in-point: boba relives the memory of a corellian gambler who is eaten "from the outsides in," the sarlacc ripping off and digesting his limbs one by one over the weeks/months/years, before it finally cracks open his rib cage and begins to root around in his organs. so, once that happens, game over, right?

well. kind of. the thing is, the sarlacc, being psychic, has what seems to be the ability to... absorb its victims minds. or at least their memories. it's kind of ambiguous which. but boba hears its past victims talking to him, telling him about how they fell in, how they tried to escape, what the sarlacc did to them, etc. now, it's possible that those people are well and truly dead, body and mind, and that the sarlacc is just fucking with boba by mimicking them. buuuut, given that the sarlacc is only sentient in the first place bc of all the people it's eaten... it doesn't seem beyond the realm of possibility that it's telling the truth and that its victims (at least, the ones it likes) live on in some horrifying incorporeal state within it.

which makes it all the more fortunate that boba got out so quickly. bc the sarlacc definitely liked him :)

3. how does boba get out of the sarlacc pit?

oh, this is my favorite part :D

so, you know how the sarlacc is psychically linked to its victims and feeds on their suffering? well, it's having a great ol' time in boba's noggin, forcing him to relive all these horrifying memories and hear the tortured voices of everyone who it devoured before him. but sometimes, the sarlacc gets bored and will pull him back into the present to have a little existential, acid-drenched chit-chat. and every time it does this, boba gets angrier and more focused, to the point where his hatred for the sarlacc is so strong, that he's actually able to fight against its psychic intrusions. here's a great description:

He struggled up out of the vision, fought it wildly, carried himself up out of the nightmare on the back of a wave of fury and abruptly was back, there in his body with the pain of the burning acid all around him, suffused with a clear, lucid, thinking hatred, an emotion so dark and deep and pure the Dark Lord himself might never have felt its equal.

given a brief reprieve from the sarlacc's game of memory-share, boba has time to observe his surroundings and come up with a game plan. he notices that the sarlacc responds physically to emotions—when he had sensed it laughing inside his head, he had felt the wall he's lashed to shudder. boba also knows that, though he can't reach it with his arms and legs bound to the wall, there is an emergency activation switch on the back of his jetpack that will activate if he pushes it down (which is, hilariously, how he got knocked into the sarlacc in the first place). so, he reasons—he needs to get the sarlacc to accidentally flip that switch the same way solo did, which, given the close quarters, will probably make the jetpack explode and might just grievously injure or even kill the sarlacc.

(it might grievously injure or kill him, too, but hey! beats being physically and psychically devoured by a torture monster over the centuries.)

so, how do you get a reaction out of a psychic monster that's currently all up in your brain? well, boba reckons: you feel. a lot. so he makes a conscious decision, musters up what strength he has left—and unleashes a lifetime's worth of anger and hatred at the sarlacc. like, just fuckin' screams at the thing for daring to call itself sentient when all its done for 4000 years is mindlessly abuse its victims, even the ones who were kind to it, even the ones it claimed to like, all because it's too stupid and cruel and cowardly to even imagine another way of life and it's so pathetic and oh my god, he hates it so much.

and this psychic emotional overload is so strong that it literally gives the sarlacc a seizure. the whole structure is spasming and shaking and crushing boba tighter and tighter against the wall and this finally gives him the pressure and leverage he needs to flip that switch on his jetpack and blow himself up.

the explosion wounds the sarlacc, throws boba from the wall, and briefly knocks him unconscious. when he comes to a few seconds later, everything is on fire and the sarlacc is still alive but he's no longer immobilized, so he takes out his concussion grenade launcher and fires it at the ceiling, which results in an explosion that breaks his arm and knocks him unconscious again but also begins to rupture sarlacc's flesh. when he regains consciousness once more, he just keeps firing grenades above himself until he finally rips a hole through the sarlacc's hide, causing a small avalanche of sand through which he's able to claw his way onto the surface above.

and that's how boba escapes the sarlacc pit! which i just love tbh, bc here's a man who has intentionally cauterized his emotions and connection with other people, who has empathy literally forced upon him and instead of letting it break him, he weaponizes it and turns it into a psychic atom bomb. he's like "YEAH, I GUESS I GIVE A SHIT ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL THESE PEOPLE NOW AND I'M SO. FUCKING. PISSED ABOUT IT. DIE."

and i think that's beautiful.

[i-want-my-iwtv]

Regarding that last ask about people still engaging with the show despite not liking it... I think it's also partially frustration. Can't say I'm that active in VC fandom, but I see it now in the LotR fandom with Rings of Power. Pretty early on I decided to just ignore it, but now it's in every LotR space/group I ever go to, and filtering/blocking does not work because people don't tag or post mix of ROP and not ROP content. So it feels like I'm forced to engage no matter how hard I try.

[Re: This ask.]

Yes, Anon, you're so right! I definitely see this as part of the reason. It's unavoidable, we're in a shared space, using shared tags, LotR fandom with Rings of Power is a great example.

I'm sorry in advance that this response got TOO LONG again. Oops. And you didn't mention racism, but that has been present in LOTR:ROP, and some of the people in VC who criticize the AMC show are/were being called racists, and it feels relevant to bring up here, in the context of this shared space issue.

TL;DR: This is a shared space. People who enjoy the show and people who want to criticize it are both in this shared space.

People are going to criticize even shows that try to be progressive. It's up to those adaptations to be strong enough to withstand it.

AMC has already greenlit a Season 2 for IWTV, so it's not going anywhere.

There are racists and homophobes in the world. I'm not spending my limited time seeking them out to try to educate them, and my stance is to block them, or drown them out with positivity.

I've been following the reactions to ROP pretty closely because I saw what was happening and had the same feeling that you do. And truly, some of the wave of fans of ROP/IWTV AMC are just happily posting their fanworks but some of them appear to be targeting resistance they find, aiming for fanspaces to dominate, this is a legit kind of conquest. More on that in a bit.

Example below. This is actually a really light hearted one, but if Brian Morgan in this tweet could genuinely just enjoy LOTR:ROP, then why post this at all? Because Brian wanted to also say, "Take that trolls!" Brian wanted to stand up for what they love. Which takes courage! I'm actually kind of charmed by this meme (maybe bc the context of Shia LaBoeuf watching his own movies was so bizarre that it flew past cringey and landed in heartwarming territory imo 💖) despite the fact that it's clearly being provocative.

[X]

~~~~~

So it is a legit kind of conquest. Re: People still engaging with the show despite not liking it (let's call them Skeptics, bc "haters" is too strong for some), that's because the shared spaces have become a kind of battleground, as you say, the content from people who enjoy the shows (let's call them Stans) are unavoidable because of the shared tags. When I've seen Stans trying to engage/provoke Skeptics, I know for a fact that at least some of them are concerned that the criticism (whether it's gentle/strong/good faith/bad faith doesn't matter) could end their show, and then they won't have it anymore. That's why criticism of the show is a personal attack on Stans, so they feel justified in seeking out all the spaces to fight any criticism in order to protect what they enjoy.

Not to worry, fans of IWTV AMC, because just in today: ‘Anne Rice’s Interview With The Vampire’ Renewed For Season 2 By AMC Ahead of Premiere. AMC is clearly pulling out all the stops, far beyond what Bezos is attempting with ROP, to create a multifaceted fanbase that'll be the foundation for their "Immortal Universe."

They've posted articles and cast interviews, they keep up their social media

There's been an avalanche of positive reviews

They've sent the first several episodes out to fans who have requested them in advance to start generating GIFs and other fan content

They're having a podcast review post-episodes in what seems like the spirit of the post-TWD episodes "Talking Dead".

They're having a free screening in NYC, and I would bet there will be more

They're promoting a fandom location for fanworks, Dorian

Negative criticism can end a show. But it looks like IWTV AMC is plenty robust enough to handle and outlast their share.💪

Whether the Stans like it or not, criticism is going to happen. Different fans of VC have different needs. Queer people are not a hive mind. Different groups of queer people see different things as good and progressive. This show can be meaningful to some fans and progressive to them, and not meaningful or progressive to others. The changes the showrunners made to IWTV appear to me to be a widening out to try to appeal to new groups of people, and that's fine. Just because a show attempts to be progressive does not mean that it gets a free pass and can be free of criticism.

Are there homophobes and racists complaining about race and gender/sexual orientation changes? Yes, of course. I have not seen these towards IWTV AMC myself, but there's been a huge reaction against Halle Bailey, the Black actress cast as Ariel in Ariel the Little Mermaid. There has been good faith criticism, and horrible racism. There was apparently a #NotMyAriel racist Twitter campaign.

There's also been good stuff that restores faith in humanity: "A new TikTok trend also shows young girls of color exclaiming at seeing Bailey as Ariel for the first time: “She’s Black like me!”" [X] This is such a wonderful way to respond to racism, IMO, by drowning it out with this positive impact!

DISCLAIMER: I am not a POC, so I'm not telling anyone, POC or otherwise, how to react to racism. But this is how I'm doing it at this time.

[I couldn't figure out how to embed the video but here's the link: X]

I have not seen racism against IWTV AMC, and even if I do in the future, it's not my job to act as the fandom police to seek out this content and go to battle over it. If I see someone make a racist comment, if it was a friend, I'd try to have a private dialogue about it. But if it's a stranger, I block. I am not spending my limited free time trying to educate strangers on the internet.

At least in VC tumblr fandom, I don't even know what they want from me/us. I assume they're trying to delegate fandom policing to others, but they are welcome to do it themselves. Or, they want to have public conversations about racist comments they have seen. They can write about whatever they choose on their own blog, and people can choose to engage with them or not.

We're in a shared space together. No one can ask the people who enjoy Rings of Power to tag their content without Lord of the Rings, because it technically is part of that IP. For the same reason, asking people posting about AMC to not use Vampire Chronicles or Interview with the Vampire would be completely absurd, because the AMC adaptation is within those tags.

It would be great to have some separation between Stans and Skeptics, if at all possible.

[transmasc-wizard]

Hi I know u like just shared some symbolism from your WIPs but. I saw u said there is More,,,,, and I love symbolism so much so if there's more u would like to share, I'd love to hear it 👀👀

hello there IS more and i am 100% glad to share

rain!! in Rose Librarians!! every time it rains, the relationship between Charlie and Eleanor changes. the first time, Charlie and Eleanor goof off together, instead of being angry and awkward. The second time, Eleanor agrees to work with Charlie to fix the library and stop the monsters, deepening the connection. The third time is the climax of the story, where Charlie and Eleanor agree to help each other truly heal instead of just pretending.

More GFS Foils, bc I love those. Angel is self-preserving and to the point it's maladaptive and hurts them, and Rowan is self-sacrificing and loyal to the point it hurts others. They both are trying to do things "right", but take it way too far.

the books Oliver re-reads can give you some insight into his emotional state! whenever he re-reads his sister's favourite book, you Know he is having unfun brain times, when he re-reads his favourite book he's stressed out, and when he reads his giant textbook about dragons, he's in a rlly good mood. this is consistent across All Five Books because i feel like it

James wearing similar sunglasses to Mack but ironically symbolizes how he's more detached than the rest of them. Mack's sunglasses are directly connected to their emotional & mental state; James' are just... a joke. He refuses to get too deep into anything he feels, and this Will be a point in the VS Sequel i have stewing in my brain (it was supposed to be a standalone,,,)

birds around Hope means godly thoughts are happening, and godly thoughts happening means the abuse metaphor is back ! every time Hope sits and thinks about just how shit their life in the godly realm was, they're surrounded by some type of bird. The most important time this happens, they're near the bird they invented. When they go back to their old home... well. there are birds everywhere >:)

the monster in NT21 is a metaphor for hurting other people to feel better, hence... *gestures to the murder*

The amount of guilt Ace is feeling over being gay will directly relate to the amount of guilt Thalia is feeling over being dead. it's not their fault it's morally neutral and it's something they WILL have to make peace with but they Don't Want To

in DAT, the more cruel and self-centered Nathaniel gets, the less he wears his worker uniform/the more he dresses like the rich capitalists around him.

The Other Ones..... sunlight in a haunted forest is not an invitation of safety. sunlight in a haunted forest represents everything else pretending to be something it is not. that sunlight is unsafe, that man is a monster, Astrophel is not a god but a man and that will catch up to him

on a related note. that one probably didn't make sense but this might: there is very much Icarus symbolism in The Other Ones. Astrophel is oh so curious. Icarus begins to fly. Astrophel feels he can do anything. Icarus gets closer to the sun. Astrophel is trying to be god. Icarus's wax wings are melting. Astrophel forgets he is mortal. Icarus is starting to fall. Astrophel is not sure whether he is man or monster. Icarus has hit the ocean. (Stuff like that, but. yk. drawn out across the book.)

addiction cw: this is a less obvious one i think, but in GFS, for the first 2 books, Corey is addicted to this shitty magic energy drink. (It lets him stay up, and staying up lets him create, and creating lets him stay sane.) in book 3, he's forced away from it. He's also forced away from a lot of other things that are bad for him. But when he gets it back--and those other things, too--he has to struggle with whether or not to use it again. (Does he go back to what's hurt him? He can escape... but now that it's available, does he really want to?)

there is. probably M o r e. but it is getting late and brain is shutting off so that is all :D

[altruistic-meme]

AFTG fic recs

Hi all! I just wanted to share some of my all-time favorite fanfics for aftg, for no real reason other than I want more people to read them and send their love to the authors :) 

Under a readmore because it got. A little long. But please enjoy!

WIPs

Dangerous Habits by LovelyLittleGrim ( @lovelylittlegrim )

Andrew has run into problems while on undercover jobs before. None of those problems were anything like the troublesome runaway that is one Nathaniel Wesninski

Aka: the fic where Andrew is undercover as a hitman for hire and Neil is the guy who hires him. Things get complicated from there.

Undercover Andrew? BAMF Neil? Hitman AU?? Absolutely. I’m in love. The story is just *chef kisses*

Chapters: 8/9

Rating: Mature

Warnings: Graphic depictions of violence, past rape/non-con, Drake Spear (who is his own warning), Butcher Neil, 

--

Negotiations by elesary ( @elesary )

This is what Andrew Minyard knows: his brother is dead, killed by a petty Raven prince who has never learned to keep his hands off of Andrew's things. His brother's daughters are his responsibility, a job that is made infinitely harder when their shitty grandparents want custody. Nathaniel Wesninski is a liar, but he might be the only way to avenge Aaron and protect his nieces. All Andrew has to do is watch Nathaniels - Neil's- back as he carves out his own life and identity from everyone who thinks they own him.

Andrew has always been good at upholding his end of the bargain, has he finally found someone willing to uphold theirs?

This fic has got me fucked up, honestly. I’m emotional over it. It’s fantastic.

Chapters: 11/?

Rating: Explicit

Warnings: Graphic depictions of violence, attempted sexual assault, Butcher Neil,

--

the upper hand by plantelty ( @plantelty  )

Shortly after losing his mother, Neil arrives in the small town of Palmetto, South Carolina, alone in the world and with an impossible plan to carry through.

At the age of eighteen, Andrew ends up helping a boy stage his own death.

-

Just two fucked up boys learning to trust each other during the course of a summer, but also: multiple references to songs, twinyard angst (Nicky tries his best), The Plotting of Neil Josten's Gruesome Demise, and shit hitting the fan in a variety of ugly ways!

The cliffhanger has got me on the edge of my seat, but it is 100% worth the read and the wait for the last chapter!! 

Chapters: 10/11

Rating: Mature

Warnings: Canon typical violence, 

--

The Butcher’s House by Fire_Bear ( @fire-bear )

Andrew thought something was odd with the house the Foxes had to move into after their Athletes' House had been burnt down. He just wasn't prepared for what was actually wrong with it.

For this was a house full of monsters.

Ghost story! Ghost story! Ghost story! I literally think about this fic every other day, it’s fantastic. 

Chapters: 6/?

Rating: Teen and Up Audiences

Warnings: character death (major or minor is unclear), injuries, 

--

Promise of an Unbroken Boy by elesary ( @elesary​ )

Neil is caught by the police with Mary's burning body and is sent to juvie in Oakland where he is assigned to share a cell with one Andrew Doe, who promises him Exy, if only Neil will tell him all of his secrets. With no access to tinted contacts and hair dye, he agrees, it's only a matter of time until he's killed after all. What does he have to lose?

But Andrew's found someone who knows what a promise means, and he'll be damned if he lets that go without a fight.

Ngl this is definitely in my very top favorites -- I LOVE the idea of Neil and Andrew meeting pre-series, and this fic just BLEW my expectations for that plotline out of the waters

Chapters: 14/?

Rating: Explicit

Warnings: Graphic depictions of violence, Underage, attempted rape/non-con, canon-typical violence, 

~~~~~~~~~

Complete

The Nameless Monster by kanekicure ( @kanekicure )

Nathaniel Wesninski wants nothing more than to see his father dead and buried. But when his father promises him the title of The Butcher, Nathaniel quickly realizes that his destiny of following in his father's footsteps is closer than ever before.

So of course, when he gets forced to go undercover for the Baltimore police, he starts seeing what living could truly be.

-

Andrew Minyard is a newly recruited police officer for the worst precinct in Baltimore, who is dedicated on hunting down the notorious Butcher and his unnamed underling. But when Neil Josten is thrown into his midst as his civilian consultant; he starts to realize some things don't quite appear as they seem.

I love the story telling -- the secret identities, the plotting, everything.

Chapters: 14/14

Rating: Mature

Warnings: Graphic depictions of violence, Butcher Neil, implied/referenced rape/non-con, implied/referenced child abuse, implied/referenced slef-harm (I believe there is a scene that is somewhat detailed on this subject), some characters also get drugged at one point, 

-- 

that’s just something people say by nanatsuyu ( @theoctopusnods )

Neil makes the mistake of stealing the wrong car. Andrew makes the mistake of offering a ride to a liar. They both make the mistake of turning the whole affair into a road trip ‘home.’

Gonna be honest; the summary does not give a big idea as to what is in store and i am SO GLAD I gave this one a try so i’m telling you that you will be too

Chapters: 24/24

Rating: Teen and Up Audiences

Warnings: implied/referenced child abuse, panic attacks (somewhat grahic descriptions of)

--

The Story After You by kanekicure ( @kanekicure )

Andrew Minyard does not understand how Riko Moriyama landed Neil Wesninski.

How the snot-nosed, small dick, rich brat, second son of the Moriyama family who also just so happened to own the largest EXY gear and merchandiser company in the world “RAVEN” - had landed smart mouthed, quick witted, stupidly blue eyed Wesninski, was beyond him. Well, unless Wesninski was a gold digger, but Andrew doubted it.

-

Or; how Andrew Minyard says he doesn't get into messy situations, until he meets Neil and suddenly he is in the most messiest possible situation ever imagined in his life - oh and also, he might be becoming a homewrecker.

Ok I am behind bc I haven’t read the final chapter of this but!! I love the story, it’s very emotional and moving, and I love the characterization in it.

Chapters: 10/10

Rating: Mature

Warnings: Abusive Riko/Neil, abusive relationship, implied/referenced rape/non-con, implied/reference child abuse, implied/referenced self-harm, graphic depictions of violence, some descriptions of injuries/scarring, 

-- 

This Complicated Life by 5a5b5p5 ( @andrewsbutterflyknife )

“This is exactly why I don’t want you and Andrew to meet,” Aaron says grumpily. “You two would get along far too well.”

Neil grins. “I just like pissing you off,” he says, “It’s not my fault your brother does such a good job at it.”

—

Neil doesn’t expect much from his Sophomore year of college, but when he becomes a waiter at the Palmetto Bistro, his life gets a whole lot more interesting. As it turns out, maintaining friendships new and old as well as navigating an interesting relationship with the head chef of the restaurant—who just so happens to be his best friend’s twin brother—is a lot more complicated than he’d thought it would be.

A much more light-hearted fic than most of the others! Includes a secret relationship, and also chef Andrew >>

Chapters: 10/10

Rating: Mature

Warnings: 

--

When I Fade, Keep Me in Your Memory by demesh 

Neil Josten has a secret: he can flicker out of existence.

He can vanish with the turn of a thought; click his fingers, and suddenly he’s not there anymore. Invisible and untouchable, he becomes a living ghost.

Having promised his mother never to let his ability go, Neil teeters the line between faded and real, a person and an echo. He can’t risk getting hurt.

But then, one day, someone sees him when they shouldn’t be able to.

 A (flower-shop) AU about how a faded and lonely Neil finds it in him to become someone real.

Another fic that I need to catch up on ;; but anyway it’s amazing and I love Neil’s ability in it, it’s so well explained and well-written about

Chapters: 12/12

Rating: Teen and Up Audiences

Warnings: mentions of past abuse, panic attacks

--

12 Ways to Woo a Minyard by NikNak22 ( @knickknacksandallthat )

Neil is a math nerd who, by a stroke of dumb luck, falls into a group of friends that are the closest thing to family he’s ever had. So, when he tells them about his new mysterious crush, he shouldn’t be surprised how immediately they come up with a plan to help win them over. One they insist that if Neil follows it, he’ll have them falling for him in no time. But things don’t always go to plan – or do they?

Nicky wants to set him up with someone else. Matt and Jeremy are confused but supportive. Allison and Seth offer lewd suggestions, while Dan does her best to keep everyone in line. Jean and Renee know something, Aaron doesn’t really care, and Kevin just wants Neil to join the lacrosse team.

But one thing’s for certain – whether Neil’s successful or not, everyone’s got money riding on this.

The romance-trope-filled fanfic of my dreams. Sometimes you just need a fic of pure joy -- this is that fic. 

Chapters: 14/14

Rating: Mature

Warnings: 

--

finders keepers by moonix ( @annawrites ​ )

Andrew meets Nathaniel through a scavenger hunt app. As their team takes part in a hunt that sends each of them to creepy, abandoned places alone to solve clues and gain points, Andrew and Nathaniel begin a little treasure hunt of their own. The anonymity of getting to know each other in small increments, never meeting face-to-face, allows them a level of intimacy neither are used to. Meanwhile Renee’s friend Neil is acting weird whenever Andrew shows up…

This was one of the first fics I read for aftg!! And BOY what a great start!! All of the little pieces and parts that work together, and just the scavenger hunt itself is fantastic! (I also REALLY wanna know if there is an app like this out there because I would be down to do that)

Chapters: 8/8

Rating: Mature

Warnings: (these all come from the author:) “mentions of historical abuse in a mental asylum, mentions of suicide, mentions of murder and kidnapping, morbid facts, creepy abandoned places including a haunted house at a theme park with disturbing rooms, special appearance of a creepy clown doll, fatphobia and some introspection on body image/complicated relationship with food, mention of self harm scars”

-----

Scared to Live (But I’m Scared to Die) by Major_816 ( @major816 )

Neil Josten goes to the Nest for Andrew, but he stays for a lot more.

~

"I'm sorry Coach," he muttered.

"For what kid?" Wymack shifted. "You've got to give me something to work with here."

Wymack watched the thin traces of sorrow as paper exchanged hands and he was looking down at a contract with the Edgar Allan Raven's.

"I signed them Coach, I'm sorry."

~

The one where Neil doesn't come back from Winter Break.

It is VERY dark, and is one of very few fics that I have actually been almost unable to read one of the scenes, so DEFINITELY pay attention to the warnings -- both these, and the ones provided for each individual chapter. I did go through the fic to collect as many warnings as I could find in the chapter warnings, but be sure to take care of yourself.

Chapters: 36/36

Rating: Explicit

Warnings: rape/non-con elements, implied/referenced rape/non-con, discussions of rape/non-con, canon-typical violence, graphic descritions, physical abuse, panic attacks, descriptions of injuries (often graphic), psychological warfare, dissociating, psychological torture, physical torture, use of knives, alcoholism/alcohol abuse, pain-induced delirium, rape/non-con, emotional self-separation, suicidal ideation/thoughts of suicide, emotional distress (which sums up the whole fic and also me while reading it), handcuffs/chains used as restraints, referenced/implied abuse towards animals, vomitting, begging, excessive use of painkillers, drowning, waterboarding, physical restraint, mutilation of an animal, mild hallucinations, non-con drugging, sleep deprivation, starvation, humiliation, the Butcher, 

Also one of the first fics I read and 100% my absolute favorite fic!!! Which is adfjhsd a little worrying, considering, but it is what it is. Anyway. This fic absolutely wrecked me, and while it is technically complete, there is a sequel in the works! So! But I am so so excited for the sequel, and I am working on rereading this. It’s amazing. 1000/10.

[cartelheir]

@streetsofsecrets​​   :   💕grigori and pat bc we know theyre a undesirable couple IN-DEPTH SHIP MEME,   accepting!  

how did they meet?

when pat moved to new york,  she got in touch with this man she’d done business with in the past in an attempt to build a new criminal network for herself.   he took her along on some meetings and events  ━  as arm candy,  sure,  but it still helped her meet people  ━,  one of which grigori and other members of the bratva were present.   however,  their meeting was brief and they’d only get to actually know each other after this partner of pat’s died and she started working for him instead.

who flirted with who first?

pat,  absolutely.   he didn’t return her advances immediately,  which pat’s not used to.    there was a certain point while flirting with him that she couldn’t tell whether he was bad at taking a hint,  if he wasn’t interested,  or if he was playing some sort of game.   she won’t lie that it only spurred her on,  and she treated it almost like a challenge.

was it love at first sight or a slowburn romance?

ig a slowburn??   definitely  not love at first sight.   they found each other attractive from the beginning  ( pat also thought he was well-dressed,  which is very important to her ).   pat usually doesn’t waste time when she’s attracted to someone,  but he just acted mostly indifferent towards her so she wasn’t sure if flirting was a good idea.   she’d only make a move on him months later.

did they start dating right away or were they friends before things became romantic?

friends  is way too strong of a word to describe them lmao.   he was her boss,  and pat thought he was cold on a good day,  a complete asshole in a bad one.   in the beginning they mostly only interacted at work,  or when grigori needed her to babysit tatiana.   or the occasional chess matches in his office or online.

what was their first date?

their initial “dates” were accidental ones;  days where there they’d watch one of tatiana’s school plays or something of the sort together,  and afterwards the little girl would all but beg pat to come with them to dinner or to the park.   after they started hooking up,  they did not go on dates.

their first real date was after they got engaged,  and he took her to dinner with his boss and his mistress.   it might sound boring,  but pat enjoyed it.   she’s more than used to these kinds of dinners from her cartel days,  the place was very fancy and she had an opportunity to dress up,  and they fucked a lot afterwards.   a successful evening.

what are their favourite things to do on date nights?

fancy dinners like that,  definitely.   if there’s one thing pat and grigori have in common,  it’s their taste for refined,  expensive things.   if you were to see them out to one of those dinners,  you’d assume they’d never been poor a day in their lives,  which i feel like both of them would enjoy.

they also go see ice skating programs,  ballet,  exhibits at museums.   again it allows them to dress and feel similarly elegant.   they go to the movies sometimes too,  which are a more lowkey option.

do they still go on dates after being together for a while?

no lmao.   they’ll go out with the kids,  or to those dinners with his bosses,  but that’s more out of obligation than anything.   date nights that are just the two of them might still happen but they’re more and more rare over time.

what is their love language?

pat’s is usually physical touch,  but she’s never truly felt like she could be very physically affectionate with grigori.   the few times she tried,  she was shut off.   so when with him she’s more into gift giving and acts of service.   grigori has none because he’s dead inside.

who kissed who first?

pat did.   again,  she felt like it took an eternity to make it happen,  but she’s not a quitter.

who started the relationship?

the fetus growing in her uterus.   if it weren’t for the surprise pregnancy,  they would’ve stayed in a casual relationship until probably having a bad fallout and messy “breakup”,  but they would not have entered a committed relationship. 

monogamy or polyamory?

listen,  there’s just no polyamory with pat.   there’s casual sex,  but if it’s a serious relationship it’s gotta be monogamous or nothing.   before they got married,  she told him she wasn’t like whatever sweet russian girls he was used to,  and if she ever found out he had a mistress she’d kill him.   she didn’t care that she’d get killed right after.   their children would be orphans and it would be all his fault.   so grigori knew what he was getting himself into.

are they/do they plan on getting married?

in this cursed au,  yes they’re married.   in the regular verse they have no intentions to.   neither of them see their fling as something that’s going to actually last a long time,  even when it’s been going on for over a year.

who proposed?  was it a yes or no?

it was less of a  proposal  and more of an agreement.   pat always assumed she’d be proposed to one day  ( not by grigori but by  someone )  so she was underwhelmed,  but it was an unusual situation so she let it slide.   grigori suggested marriage after they found out about her pregnancy,  to which pat said she needed to think.   so later they had a conversation about it again,  and she told him about her conditions,  such as the date of the wedding,  that she didn’t want to leave work to stay at home,  the no mistresses rule mentioned above.   and,  of course,  that even though there was no formal proposal that didn’t mean he could get away with not buying her a ring.

do they want kids?  who brought it up first?

the whole reason they get married is because pat got pregnant on accident.   some time after this child though,  it’s pat who asks him how does he feel about having another baby at some point.

do they already have kids,  together or from previous relationships?

pat doesn’t,  but grigori has a daughter named tatiana.   pat used to babysit her on and off before she and grigori became a thing,  and she loves tati like she’s her own daughter.

do they have any routines/rituals in their relationship?

they get ready together in the mornings.   their master bathroom is large and there’s a huge mirror that they both share.   they don’t usually talk a lot during this time,  unless when pat’s asking for his opinion on which necklace looks best or help to put it on,  but it’s a nice quiet ritual they share.

during work breaks,  they play bullet chess with each other online;  that’s when each player has less than three minutes on the clock,  so the matches are very fast-paced.

i don’t know if you’d consider finding at least  one  thing to argue about everyday a relationship ritual,  but there’s that too.

how do they take care of each other when they are sick/hurt?

grigori will sleep a lot when sick,  so pat will make sure the kids and the cats are silent and everything else is taken care of.   she’ll leave a glass of water nearby,  or bring a pillow or cover him with a blanket if he falls asleep on the couch.   but otherwise she leaves him to it,  because she also likes to sleep when sick and to not be disturbed.

now pat,  unless it’s a  very bad  injury  ( like her previous bratva attack ),  she’s stubborn as shit and wants to work herself to exhaustion,  then  sleep when her body can’t handle it anymore.   grigori knows better than to try to convince her to stop.   so he similarly leaves her alone except for checking in once in a while to make sure she’s not dead.

how do they like to spend time together?

having sex.

playing chess is something they’ve done together since before they were even a thing.   in the married au they have a chess set in their living room,  and an extra smaller one in their bedroom which they often play in bed.   they also enjoy playing hand and brain chess against someone else online.   that’s basically when you play chess with a partner,  one of you is the hand and the other is the brain:  the brain will say only the name of the piece that should be moved,  and the hand has to figure out where it’s supposed to go.   they can do it for hours when they have the free time.

they’ll watch things together too;  some movies  ( including disney movies with the kids ),  history documentaries that pat used to claim to find boring but would get sucked in after 20 minutes.   on reallyyy good days they’ll dance together a bit,  and pat doesn’t get why they won’t ever go out to dance together,  but grigori is just too damn uptight for that.

some of their arguments,  when not about serious things or when they don’t escalate,  are amusing too.   it gets them thinking about different,  often wildly opposite perspectives.   but again,  there’s a fine line between light arguing over trivial things and  oops we’re fighting for real about marble kitchen counters now.

what are their favourite non-sexual forms of intimacy?

for a long time,  pat would read grigori’s need for a personal space as a complete lack of intimacy between them,  and “proof” that he hated having her around.   and it is true that she wishes they were more affectionate with each other,  but she’s picked up on his subtle acts of affection over time:  holding the door for her,  helping her clasp on jewelry or zip up her dress,  holding her hand when they’re sitting side by side.   and because these gestures are so small and sprinkled in here and there,  and he tends to act cold in the meantime,  it feels like a big deal when it happens,  like when a particularly aloof cat climbs on your lap.   it feels like she passed a test she didn’t even know she was taking,  and it makes her very happy.

what are some of their favourite things about their partner?

if you asked either of them this question,  they’d take a long time to respond.   there’s just not much lmao.   grigori likes that she’s resourceful,  and good with tatiana.   and attractive.   pat thinks he’s intelligent and assertive.   in the beginning,  she used to like that he was mysterious and intimidating because it was so challenging to get close to him,  but now she just finds it annoying because he’s so impossible to get to.   she also likes that he’s rich enough to follow her along on the kind of life she likes to have;  outings to fancy places,  first-class trips,  material possessions,  etc.

how do they comfort the other when they are upset?

nine times out of ten they’ll make it worse.   pat gets annoyed that he closes himself off and won’t tell her what’s going on when upset  ( “i promise you your dick’s not gonna fall off if you stop sulking and talk about shit once in your life” ).   she does make an effort to be nice,  bring him coffee,  tell him he can vent if he wants to.   but she gets frustrated when it doesn’t work and he keeps on shutting her out.   it’s like her efforts are just never enough.

grigori in return gets annoyed at how pat’s temper is  extra bad  when she’s upset,  and she snaps at every little thing.   him,  the kids,  the door she stubbed her toe on.   she gets temperamental and unstable.   now,  he  has  shown her crumbs of empathy in the past when she was hella hurt and distressed,  like right after her bratva attack.   when he saw her bruises,  it was the very first time pat felt anything resembling tenderness coming from him.   this makes her think he  is  capable of being understanding and comforting her,  he just chooses not to.   it also makes her wonder how much hurt it will be enough for him to show a glimpse of softness for her again,  which is just really not a healthy mindset.

who buys the other spontaneous gifts?

pat!!   it’s just her thing.   once in a while she’ll see something she thinks he’d like,  or that reminded her of him,  so she brings it home.   pat’s really good with gifts too because she  really  pays attention to what her partners like,  so the possibility of her buying him something he doesn’t like is very low.

what position do they sleep in?

each one in their own positions,  usually.   back to back when they’re mad at each other.   when pat’s  reallyyy  pissed with him she’ll sleep in tatiana’s bed,  or with one of the other kids.   alternatively,  she’ll only swallow her pride and ask him to cuddle her until she falls asleep when she’s going through a lot of emotional distress,  like if she just had a bad nightmare or if she’s been very depressed for a while.

do they bathe/shower together?

only when they want sex tbh.

do they do anything else in the bath/shower other than wash?

as mentioned above,  aside from sex no.

in the bedroom - vanilla, a little spice, or kinky af?

kinky af.   even when they’re not doing anything super out of the ordinary,  there’s some kind of heavy power dynamics going on.

for applicable ships - who tops/bottoms?

they alternate.

for applicable ships - who is more dominant/submissive?

in life,  they’re both so dominant they just clash over and over again as they try to have the upper hand.

in bed,  grigori is very submissive and pat has assumed a more dominant role which she wasn’t used to,  but ended up really enjoying.   maybe because she was so pissed at him that causing him pain gave her great satisfaction.   but,  there are times once in a while  ( specially after a long time together )  where she does miss being dominated.   or just not being dominant.   this causes conflicts between them,  because grigori isn’t into it and even when he agrees to standard sex just to please her,  it ends up feeling robotic and bad.   pat gets mad because she feels like she got out of her comfort zone for him,  but he can never make an effort for her.   it’s not a super frequent issue,  but it comes up from time to time.

what is their favourite sex position?

pat likes it when he’s on his knees eating her out as she leans against the wall.   when grigori bottoms,  their favorite is when he’s on his stomach,  or bent over.   when pat bottoms,  it’s her riding him  ( whether he’s laying down or sitting up doesn’t matter ),  with her hands around his throat.   or missionary,  so she can either use a toy on him as he fucks her or scratch his back.   pat’s back scratches are no joke,  she’ll dig in until there’s blood running down his skin.

do either of them enjoy bringing sex toys into the bedroom?

when they’d been doing some anal play for a while and pat hesitantly asked if he’d ever let her fuck him with a strap,  she genuinely expected him to say no.   but he agreed instead,  and now it’s definitely something they do semi-regularly.   he’ll wear a plug sometimes too,  though pat has yet to convince him to wear it out of the house.   as for pat,  she doesn’t care as much about toys being used on her,  though she appreciates a vibrator in a special occasion.   it’s just more rare.

favourite place to have sex?

his office.   their bedroom.   pre-marriage,  they used to fuck in different rooms in pat’s apartment;  the couch,  the dining table,  the bar counter.   but after living together and having kids,  there’s just not enough opportunity to do that often anymore.

most adventurous place they’ve had sex?

probably his office,  after hours.   i can’t really see grigori as being super into public places where they could be walked in on or watched.

how often do they fight?  what about?

god,  i could be here all day.

regular verse,  they fight a lot about her blackmailing situation.   when he orders her to do something she really doesn’t want to do,  specially if it involves a dangerous situation or seducing someone,  like the russian that eventually caused her attack.   she’ll tell him she’s not a fucking whore.   he’ll tell her she’ll do what he wants if she intends to live.   this is a period they also fight about tatiana,  because pat can tell he uses her to have an upper hand over her.   once grigori finds out she’s been snooping into his life and got in touch with anya,  things only get worse.

married au:  as i mentioned above,  they argue nearly everyday about random things  ( just name anything,  they’ll find a way to argue about it ),  and sometimes those arguments actually escalate into fights.

a lot of their serious fights happen because pat will confront him about his coldness,  or about something that bothers her.   how he makes her feel like shit.   he’ll tell her she’s being  irrational  or immature and there’s few things in the world that piss her off more than that.   he’s insensitive and incapable of compassion,  and he can be so cruel both with words and gestures.   they can be married for years,  he can do all those small acts of affection that make her heart race so hard inside her chest,  but she’ll never forget all the hurt he’s put her through,  and it all boils over to the surface at the smallest screw-up from him.   these kinds of fights make her feel pathetic because she feels like she shouldn’t have to beg her husband to love her.

it’s also important to note pat doesn’t measure her words when she’s angry.   she’s always had a talent for getting a rise out of people,  and she’ll hit him where it hurts.   she’ll bring up tatiana,  anya,  their kids,  his parenting.   she’ll bring up whatever bad thing he’s told her about his past in a moment of anger.   but if grigori  dares  to bring up her past  ( specially román or benjamín ),  she’ll go feral.

she used to apologize later,  when she felt like she truly crossed a line.   but over time she decided,  he doesn’t care,  so why should i?   so things get “solved” by being bottled up.

have they ever broken up?

pre-marriage / regular verse,  there were various times where pat felt like she should break things off.   he blackmailed her after finding out about her true identity,  and there were moments where he was truly cruel.   sometimes it only drove her closer,  because she loved the adrenaline and the danger of the situation.   but then things like  that one desk fight  would happen,  and pat felt so humiliated she never wanted to see him again.   the only reason she resumed sleeping with him was because she was assaulted shortly after that,  and she was vulnerable enough to cling to him again.

married au,  they’ve had bad periods in their marriage where either of them would think  this is it,  i’m done.   they’d be sleeping in separate rooms for a while and considering a divorce,  but then they’d get back together,  perhaps more for the kids and the commitment and everything they’ve built than for like,  actually enjoying each other’s company at all.   pat has an affair at some point,  which she hides so poorly because part of her  wants  to get caught just to get a reaction out of grigori,  some kind of proof that he gives a shit about her.   or maybe so he can finally ask for a divorce and end this once and for all.   to sum it up they desperately need a marriage counselor,  and i feel like even the counselor would tell them to split up.

messy breakup,  amicable split,  remain friends,  ride or die or til death do us part?

i could see them having a messy break up,  but pat’s not someone who ends relationships easily.   she’ll drag them out,  even when she’s miserable.   during their brief times separated,  she’s the one who’s seeking him out and seducing him again.   unless grigori puts his foot down and ends it himself,  odds are they’ll be together and miserable forever.

[jakowskis]

i know we're all frustrated with the limited lore we have regarding the four lords but i wanted to put some questions out there in hopes someone has the answers. if not ig we can just speculate, & maybe the answers will crop up via word of the writers eventually or smth

first off, heisenberg's wiki page currently states smth about him being kidnapped as a child. i know there's a lot of talk about "forced to be her children", but is anything canonically mentioned regarding miranda kidnapping the lords, especially with them as minors? either from the village or from elsewhere, considering their diverse last names?

even if something along those lines happened with heisenberg, that just brings up a dozen more questions. like, we know alcina was 44 yrs old when miranda got a hold of her. i don't quite understand how the whole eva-reincarnation thing was intended to work, but apparently the potential "vessels" didn't need to be young girls. lady d's wiki makes it sound like she inherited her family's castle in her 40s (in the 1950s) where she met miranda, was enchanted by her, and willingly allowed herself to be altered by the cadou.

i know there's some (undated) documents you find in the game where someone discusses how miranda took donna in, & i think she's described as a young woman, so that means she was an teen or adult when she was infected, too. presumably an adult, if her aging stopped when she made contact with the cadou like alcina & miranda. i'd consider a theory that she's actually just younger than the others, but everything in her home indicates shes from the 20th century, too. all the lords have an old-fashionedness to them, but alcina's the only one who's time period is confirmed. donna kinda reminds me of the 1920s, actually.

moreau... everything about his dialogue implies childishness. it'd be a solid bet that, if the child kidnapping concept is true, he was a fellow victim. the thing that's throwing me off... he has a tattoo. a sailor tattoo. maybe, before things went crazy, even under miranda's influence and with the mutation, he was able to be semi-normal and even travel and go somewhere modern enough to give tattoos, but i'm inclined to think it's a relic of a past life. also worth mentioning he seems to be somewhat older, as he has gray hair... did he not stop aging as the women have, or was he, again, influenced by miranda as an adult?

karl's in a similar boat with his age, but there's that damn wiki sentence that's throwing me off - kidnapped as a child. was the cadou introduced to his body when he was a boy? did miranda really try her often-lethal experiments on children? has he aged normally, then? we'll guess he's late 40s - was he born in the early 70s, and he really is alcina's little brother? and was he the only one of the lords subjected to that specific hell? taken and experimented on as a child, whereas the other three were willing adults?

despite my confusion over the origin of the kidnapped child concept, this theory does make sense. it especially explains his hatred towards her.

but it also opens up another can of worms. now im thinkin... how awfully convenient that there were four notable families in the area who's most recent descendants happened to be able to semi-successfully bond with the cadou. it makes me wonder.. aside from alcina, and maybe donna as well (namely bc of the gravestone by her home), did the lords actually hail from the families they represent? is it possible miranda gifted moreau and heisenberg the last names of long-gone families who'd once been prevalent in their region, along with the reservoir and factory, respectively, both families had once presided over?

either way, whether descended from locals or outsiders brought in - where are their families? donna's parents are dead, okay... how about the rest of them? surely all four of them don't have absolutely no family at all. which, in line with what i just talked about... is it possible heisenberg was taken from his family as a kid? i doubt miranda would have the decency to exclusively seek out orphans.

then there's his line about "she took me. took us." (which also lends to the concept of him being a child when he got dragged into things, as adults are less often "taken".) i get the feeling 'us' doesn't mean the other lords, whom he disdains. maybe, karl was abducted with one or more biological family members, and the cadou experiments proved fatal with them? it could further explain why he hates miranda so damn much, and the way he's the only one who understands that she doesn't truly care for them. the others only saw what she had "gifted" them - whereas, perhaps very early on, karl lost something precious to him at the hands of miranda. maybe he was the first to see her monstrous side.

and if miranda did sort of raise him, where'd he learn the engineering? donna's an amateur botanist, alcina paints & had enough knowledge of science to successfully make her daughters, and moreau's an amateur (and unsuccessful) scientist as well... did heisenberg teach himself, like the others seemingly taught themselves about their hobbies? or maybe did miranda, brilliant in her own right, teach him in an attempt to bond? would she care enough to? doubtful, but maybe she felt compelled to, in an attempt to win him back, after killing off that hypothetical family member (or members?).

there's so many loose ends... it's both frustrating, and incredibly stimulating. i love puzzles lol

[gwyns]

what would be your ideal elucien arc in canon?

this is a very good question and one i'll probably ramble with so sorry lmao i actually thought about an elucien plot a lot years ago. i had quite a few ideas and was trying to plot my own multi-chapter fic around them but well..... that didn't work out and this ended up getting really long, so i apologize for that lol

so here's the overall gist of what would've/what i would like to eventually happen one day. elain had a vision of lucien being harmed or something along those lines and her instinct had her finding him. whether this was through her learning she could winnow or some other means, i hadn't decided but eventually she'd show up and lucien would be so dumbfounded and question her reason for being there and ask if feyre knew she was here and elain would get defensive like "i didn't realize she was my keeper." and this is the first time lucien has truly seen her bite, her little bit of fire, so he's taken aback a bit but quickly reassures her she needs no keeper and he hadn't meant offense.

she gives an excuse about how she wants to see prythian and that nobody would show her so she decided to show herself, bc she doesn't want to admit she cares for him, even a fraction bc it might give him hope that she ultimately would have to crush. and it's not entirely a lie, she would like to travel and see the world, but it's not the whole truth either.

so moving on they'd partner up and he'd bring elain along on whatever adventures he's getting up to, they'd meet up with jurian and vassa of course and i have this headcanon that she and vassa would be the perfect friends. vassa is human so she'd offer elain something familiar you know? and vassa is also the type to stand her ground and she has a fire of her own so i feel like she'd help elain grow into herself and be more assertive and stroke the fire within elain some. as for elain and jurian.... it's awkward at first bc jurian is partially responsible for elain's turn (at least in her head) and he was there when graysen rejected her and so she overall has had bad experiences when he's around so she doesn't know what to make of him.

over time she comes to find that jurian isn't as intimidating as he first lets on. he's quite considerate and good at reading people, and he knows to some extent what she's gone through (as does vassa), he was tortured and killed by amarantha then bound to her jewelry for 500 years. he understands the feeling of violation and having a fae treat you as some toy and little more, and he apologizes for his part in her trauma. after this, i can see him becoming something of a big brother type to elain, they have a relationship few would understand but they listen to each other's troubles and just get it you know?

anyway, back to her and lucien. i can see them both being kind of reluctant in the beginning? elain bc she doesn't want to give him any ideas and lucien doesn't know want to pressure her so he keeps his distance but as they're working together, with the spring court, koschei, her learning more about her abilities, etc they both start to see how capable they each are and their feelings start to show here. for lucien it's more natural, like he always had a feeling that if he spent enough time with elain he could fall in love with her but with elain? she's freaked out. she doesn't want this, she wants her ability to choose. and maybe it's just the mating bond reacting for her or at least this is what she tells herself to explain away the butterflies she gets whenever lucien smiles at something she said.

at some point they have to travel to the autumn court and lucien is terrified, he doesn't want her anywhere near his family but elain asserts herself and says she's coming whether he likes it or not. he, of course, doesn't object. he just pleads with her to stay close to him the entire time. during their visit(s) they meet with eris and lucien's mother and you don't understand how badly i want elain and his mother to have a good relationship. her own mother only saw her as beautiful and something to capture a titled man to advance their status, she didn't truly see elain either. lady vanserra would be the kind and caring mother she never had and then being close would allow elain to learn more about lucien without asking him directly.

and her and eris? he'd take on the protective older brother role for elain, he would make sure no one even breathed near her unless she wished it so. maybe he'd introduce her to his dogs or something, too.

i can't get into specifics of what would really happen during these visits bc my brain sucks but overall it'd allow elain to learn more of lucien's upbringing and begin to understand him and in turn lucien would learn more about elain's childhood when she'd discuss her mother with lady vanserra.

maybe after this they visit the day court or something so they can view helion's massive library and try to learn more of koschei and elain's powers. they'd bond while studying, it'd start as courteous conversation but it'd soon develop into more intimate questions. maybe she asks about jesminda, who she'd learned some about from feyre and some from the servants in the autumn court, he'd answer her questions but never offer anything more than what he had to. she can tell her death still weighs heavily on him. this is when she really starts paying attention to what exactly she feels through the mate bond, tremendous guilt and, as feyre once described, he's endlessly sad.

this is where things get kinda fuzzy for me bc i never knew how this story would end, like i knew the koschei conflict would be the finale but other than that? nothing lmao but basically i could see elain and lucien growing together very slowly. they start getting comfortable with the faint touches and lingering glances they give each other. it eventually leads to a dark night in the camp and elain can't sleep so she gets up to take a walk but her feet just lead her to wherever lucien is and she sees him without his shirt on, his back is turned to her and she sees the massive scars across his back and can't stop the soft gasp that escapes.

lucien whirls around but elain can't get the image out of her head... who would have been so cruel as to cause those marks? who would dare to touch her mate like that? she knows she should be more worried about how possessive the mate bond makes her, but in this moment it doesn't matter, what matters is who hurt him. and she asks as much, "it's nothing, elain" is his response but she doesn't let up, she steps closer to him and motions for him to turn around, which he does. she hesitantly runs her fingers across his scars, she can feel her rage building, no matter how irrational it is she wants whoever did this dead. she blinks at that thought, but she's not scared no, she wants whoever caused him pain to suffer.

he tells her not to worry and that it's already been taken care of and she reluctantly leaves him to go back to her own tent (or wherever they're sleeping) and tries to sleep but everytime she closes her eyes the image of his scars, how he might have received them, flashes in her mind. then she starts to wonder who gave him the scar on his face, she wonders how she might find out and how she might get the means to return the favor.

also maybe at some point later in the story, they visit the autumn court again, i have a headcanon that elain doesn't only see the future, she can see the past in some cases so maybe she starts seeing this couple in a.... very intimate setting. and she works out the female is lucien's mother, but the male she's with is definitely not beron. this could prompt the helion reveal but honestly idk how that'd all go down.

i really can't tell you how this would all wrap up bc i am so bad at plotting but eventually they meet koschei, they defeat him and there's a scene where they embrace and the confessions come, it starts with lucien,

"i love you. so much. and i choose you. i'd choose you in a hundred–in a thousand different lifetimes."

"do you mean that?"

"i've never meant anything more."

elain brings her hands to his face, caressing his cheeks, then she moves to trace the scar on his face.

she finally says, "i choose you, too, lucien. i love you. now, kiss me... please."

they have the kiss we've all waited 5 books for. she accepts the bond and we all live happily ever after.

[faebriel]

ok ok I'm insane and couldn't pick one so have two (no need to answer both if you don't want to)

“You talk to him.” Not kindly, but he does.

“I’m used to him,” he shoots back. “I’m the only person who is.”

That makes Niki feel something, some uncomfortable tug in her chest. She mentally kicks herself. It’s not jealousy, she reminds herself, because despite the near-cliff jumping and the long nights without food and the nuclear fallout that has punctuated her last few months, being jealous of Tommy would be the least reasonable thing she’s allowed herself to be, maybe ever.

“You don’t believe me,” Tommy says flatly. “You never - eugh.” He cuts himself off with another ragged sigh, running a hand down his face. “Look, Niki, it’s - we were all together in Pogtopia, right? But I was there first. With him. And you didn’t see the start of it, it was horrible, and I’m glad no one else saw the beginning of it either but it was still just so shit and he kept saying all these terrible things about Tubbo and Fundy and you and,” he takes a shaky breath, “then, when I died, I saw him.”

Her breath catches in her throat.

Well, the voice in the back of her head whistles. If you were still wondering about all this afterlife bullshit, if you want to know where you’re going after your third life, here you go.

and

“You didn’t even - this isn’t about L’Manberg, Wilbur!” Niki shouts.

And then he stops, breathing hard, and he looks at Niki the same way he does whenever her voice is being drowned out in a crowd - the way he does when he wants to hear her, when he wants to know what she has to say.

“What else is there?” he asks.

Niki freezes. Stock still, unable to move, unable to breathe, ice threading its way through her gut, her chest, her shoulders, chilled down to the bone. With slow-dawning horror, she can feel hot tears welling up behind her eyes, sitting in her throat, threatening to spill over into a sob. She swallows - to keep her cool, to stay calm, to keep it together -

And then, something in her chest just snaps.

“You said you’d come back for me!” she cries, and her voice hitches on the lump of tears at the back of her throat and god, she sounds absolutely pathetic. Wilbur’s face softens immediately, which somehow just makes her feel even worse. “In Manberg. When Schlatt put me in prison, and you and Tommy were in Pogtopia, you said you’d break me out when it was safe. I waited for weeks , Wilbur. It was… it was horrible.”

“Niki…” a kaleidoscope of emotions flicker across his face, and he seems unsure which to settle on. “We got you out though, right? After the festival.”

“You looked for the button first,” she says quietly, and he stills.

Her sniffling sounds embarrassingly loud against the quiet background of night.

thank you sm!!! i’m gonna put these under the cut because they got a little long sorry (tw for discussion of suicidal ideation)

to preface: tommy is kind of the accidental but incredibly necessary invisible support beam for niki and wilbur’s making amends in bitter. niki cannot accept wilbur’s actions and apology without first acknowledging her own actions and making steps towards an apology, because otherwise it kind of falls flat? in that ending scene niki finally gets what wilbur is feeling and wilbur finally gets that someone else knows how he feels (it’s not perfect 100% yet, but…. that’ll get explored later)

onto the actual snippet! “tommy talks to wilbur - not kindly, but he does” was very important to me! tommy has stuck by wilbur ever since pogtopia, but the tragedy is that he is not equipped to deal with wilbur’s issues, and it shows. wilbur’s first stream after revival depicts this really clearly, where tommy tails wilbur around the whole time but insults him, is still stuck on calling him the villain, physically fights him at some point, etc. on one hand this isn’t healthy but on the other hand tommy is actually around, which is more than can be said for basically any other ally wilbur has had on the dsmp, maybe excluding his dad, who literally killed him lmfao.

this whole issue is exacerbated by the fact that tommy believes that he is the only person who properly understands wilbur, the only person who gets what happened to him, and feels like wilbur is generally his burden to bear. he failed to stop wilbur from both 1. hurting other people and 2. killing himself after the pogtopia-manberg war - and he doesn’t trust wilbur not to do either of those things again, so he’s stuck hovering around wilbur while wilbur is inadvertently setting off his own trauma and feeling responsible for any way he might fuck up and hating that but not wanting to leave. tommy’s memory isn’t perfect and he isn’t a perfect narrator, what he remembers from pogtopia the most were the scariest parts and that’s understandable but it means he’s holding wilbur to the worst expectations of behaviour (and he does so very vocally). the others showed up later, sure, but in tommy’s eyes he’s the only one who saw wilbur’s descent, and by the time they showed up wilbur had already changed irreversably. tommy tries to rationalise this by splitting the ‘different wilburs’ apart from each other in his head (he does this in canon too - there’s one quote from like late 2020 where he says he and tubbo need to keep on going for who wilbur used to be, not who he became, even though they’re,, the same person), and no one challenges that perspective, so he just keeps doing it even though it’s not healthy for him or wilbur.

and then limbo happened and, oh geez, THAT didn’t help jhfaskjjfsa

tommy is on a bit of a knife edge with niki in this fic. niki’s in this state of “ok, he’s annoying whatever, i’m moving on”, but all tommy knows is that she tried to kill him that one time, disappeared off the face of the map, joined a book club with two people who definitely do not like him, and now is just acting weirdly mellow and polite. she is not someone he wants near wilbur bc what the fuck is she gonna do? what is he gonna do? who knows. he’s frustrated that niki doesn’t seem to acknowledge how he’s feeling (especially bc once upon a time she would have been someone he trusted to acknowledge them - they were friends, they fought together) and he’s taking a big step by telling someone about his concerns here, especially bc tommy doesn’t really like talking about them at all. he wouldn’t be saying absolutely anything to niki if he didn’t truly believe she should stay away from wilbur, even if he’s wrong about him. (sometimes i think i write tommy as a little too emotionally mature here but it all goes out the window when wilbur’s brought up. idk if that balances it out)

ok onto niki: this is the first she has actually heard of limbo! she’s only just come around to the fact that resurrection is possible at all. death is kind of a touchy subject for niki both in general and re: wilbur in the fic - she’s coming off of a period in her life where suicidal ideation was, uh, a big thing (whether you want to read that into canon or not is subjective, that’s just the angle i went with in this fic). the sudden existence of a life after death, miserable as it is - and whether she really believes in such a place, when it only exists in tommy and wilbur’s words - that is a lot of information for her to absorb all at once. death is a weird connection point for tommy and niki here, coming right off of the fact that they’ve just acknowledged each other having those problems - tommy, out of, yknow, altruism, would very much like to keep niki out of that place, and niki is quietly reckoning with the fact that that is where she would have sent him. the concept of limbo from the perspective of a character with no experience of it, even secondhand, is so interesting to me like what kind of eldritch location would you feel like you’re living in asghjkl

(also - i gotta be honest the jealousy angle here but mostly when she’s talking later about dream not deserving wilbur’s companionship kinda came out after this post came across my dash while writing. whoops /j)

-

fun fact, this is the very first snippet of bitter that i ever wrote! all the way back in may!! this is like the moment of the fic - it's where the miscommunication that niki and wilbur have been having is shattered entirely - and so sticking the landing was uhhh kinda important to me lol.

wilbur's entire being in this fic is basically consumed by L'Manberg - he equates his self worth to it entirely. in his eyes, everyone (rightfully) hates him because of what he did to L'Manberg, because L'Manberg was corrupted and he himself with it, etc. niki tries to tell herself this, and while it definitely does form part of her issues with him, it was the betrayal that causes her this much pain - that he seemingly brushed her and their friendship off entirely when he supposedly left her for dead in manberg. because here is what we as the audience know: wilbur couldn’t leave niki in trouble when he heard her life was in danger, even when he was trying to find the button (pretty much the only thing he sees himself as having left at this point) and so he returned. here is what it looks like from niki’s perspective: wilbur told her to wait in manberg until it was safe to come to pogtopia, laid the place with TNT, went to blow up the place, and only returned when he couldn’t find the detonator (and then the first thing she saw him do in pogtopia was encourage the pit behaviour but that’s not what we’re talking about asdfgh). that is massive miscommunication and it’s been brewing between them for months - to make a quirky little reference to the title, niki has been carrying that anger with her so long it's gone bitter. it was never just about l’manberg with niki - not that anger, not her and wilbur’s friendship (hence the little flashback earlier in the fic, bc niki’s relationship to anarchism and statehood or statelessness juxtaposed with her friendships with wilbur and eret - she loves l’manberg bc she loves wilbur, but she loves eret too and those national ties don’t undermine that - is Real Interesting to me) - so when wilbur asks what else there could possibly be (because in his mind, what else could she have bothered staying around for?), she just fucking breaks.

“Niki freezes. Stock still, unable to move, unable to breathe, ice threading its way through her gut...with slow-dawning horror, she can feel hot tears welling up behind her eyes” - prose discussion time! heat and cold are two big throughlines in this fic - particularly for niki, cold is what she is. admittedly when i started with it i mostly wanted to subvert hot = angry and cold = dead but i kinda ended up enjoying this take on it for what it is instead of just as a subversion (also i like the idea of revived people running hot, their bodies r working hard to keep em going). she’s holding onto her feelings and refusing to deal with them, she’s frozen over. descriptions of cold are key to niki’s mental state throughout the fic - cold weight on her chest, feelings of frostbite when she and wilbur hug the first time, ice cold water during the dinner scene, waking up in the cold flat, etc. this was an attempt at describing a more visceral feeling of like, when you’re really mad and you can just feel the adrenaline running through your veins. always felt more cold than hot to me. when she starts to cry, the facade she’s been putting on is finally thawing out and cracking the ice she’s buried her feelings under. (also gives an excuse to write warm comforting hugs towards the end /hj). it’s a loss, it’s catharsis, it’s a whole mess.

and ofc this is all news to wilbur and he feels terrible, because as unintentional as it was, he really really hurt her - because the destruction of l’manberg fucking sucked but above all else wilbur hurt the people he loved because they loved him so much and not in spite of it, because they cared about him so deeply and his death was a massive blow to them. this hasn’t even dawned on him, because how could it? he respects deeply niki (lowkey respects her opinion more than his own at this point) so he has to listen, because it’s niki (“and he looks at Niki the same way he does whenever her voice is being drowned out in a crowd - the way he does when he wants to hear her, when he wants to know what she has to say” - because he does), and what she says fucking floors him. in his eyes, he failed her by putting her in danger and then by destroying her home - the idea that she valued him and their friendship so much flies entirely over his head until this moment, and he is forced to re-evaluate the mindset that has motivated him since… basically since pogtopia! the way i write wilbur is like… yes, he’s one of niki’s closest friends and he’s more aware of her insecurities and issues than most (which is why he does always take the time to listen to her, etc) but he does over-idealise her a bit. tbf, i think he does to some extent with everyone (calling tubbo strong on the anniversary stream, for example). also the fact that he really wasn’t around for niki’s lowest moments as a character! he still thinks of her the way she was in l’manberg - confident, steadfast, respected - and this moment shatters that for him as he realises exactly what effect he and his death had on her and everyone else, not just by his actions, but because they loved him and cared for him so deeply.

sorry that this got horrifically long!! and thank you so much for sending snippets in <3333

[rahleeyah]

When do you think Elliot fell in love with Olivia? I can never truly pinpoint when Liv did. There’s a couple spots starting from s1 on when I’m like “yeahhhhh she’d happily date him if he didn’t have a family”. But Elliot? I don’t think that happened to him for a bit. (This is my theory, but really curious what you think!? I love hearing everyone pinpoint when they think it happened because I love talking about love sick Elliot 🤣)

My theory? After Alex got shot/finding out she was alive and in Witness Protection. S1-4, they’re pretty close but definitely not overly close like they were in the end (besides the s1 touches). I think after Alex got shot and the fact that she got shot while she was with them, really fucked them up so Elliot spent that first night with Olivia. After leaving the hospital that night, he brought her home and just never left and they mourned quietly together. And then finding out she was in Witness Protection? I think they spent a solid week together hashing it all out after because who else were they going to talk about it with??? And we learn later they really didn’t tell a SOUL. (As they shouldn’t have but also (as me and my best friend call them, husband privileges) wouldn’t have been surprised if they did.)

And I think that started it all. And then sometime in the last two episodes of season six, I think they hang out a lot. Because they have no one to go home to! They have no one to help remind them there is something else in the world besides this job! So they talk to each other because they understand what they are going through but also it helps them connect with the world again. And they go to each other’s places and sit at the counter or on the couch with some beers and they spend their nights just talking. Sometimes they chill at a diner and then suddenly it’s been four hours. And they learn a lot about each other. (I’m reminded of your post where you talk about how they stand on separate sides of issues but they have some of the same core values, I think this is when they really learn a lot about each other is during s7)

And then Fault makes him realize that. And THAT’S what gets him. I think Elliot always knew how much he cared about Olivia, even before then. That he knew if there was a situation it would be hard because really he cared for her so much even before he loved her. I think they probably thought of each other as best friends starting late s4/early s5. (If not earlier honestly. Season 2 wouldn’t be a stretch. Maybe even late s1.)

But when Elliot picked Olivia over Ryan? When the panic that had gone up his spine is more about her falling to the ground than not getting to Ryan in time? THAT’S what scares him. Because his love for her had slowly intertwined its way through his entire being unknown until he thought he would never have it again. And he can’t believe he never even noticed it.

This is a question we've had before but this time I have just got up to s12 in my rewatch and i have had more time to think about 1.0 and i wanna come at it again

first off, i love your take about all this hitting him post Alex. I think that's the premise for a damn good fic tbh. Just digging into all those feelings bc the three of them had a special bond and now Alex is gone, and this show doesn't kill a lot of mains, like there's a lot of collateral damage but they don't kill a lot of fan favorites, so a lot of the people close to eo haven't actually died - and of course Alex isn't actually dead but they don't know that initially - so it's more realistic that they'd be devastated to lose their friend, and Liv doesn't have anybody to go to, and El's marriage is on the rocks, and yeah. that's fucking perfect.

there are moments where I think Elliot's mask starts to slip. in 2.0, when he's in the middle of his HIV scare and Liv asks him to go out for a drink and he says no and she says see you tomorrow and he says you will all warm and reaches for her, there is a softness in him, there is something knowing in him. her heart is in her eyes, her fear for him, her desperation not to lose him, and he reacts to that with aching fondness and physical touch. it's notable to me bc they have stopped touching so much, after the s1 love fest. but he goes home to kathy.

there's the end of s4, when she comes to him, turns up at his door, and they have a heart to heart; the difference is you can walk away, and no I can't. I think he is trying, then, to save her, bc he can see how the work is killing her and he doesn't want her to burn out, and there is a quiet, familiar intimacy to them in that moment that feels heavy.

but really I don't think he has it in him to actually consider her as anything other than a friend until Kathy leaves in s6. He cares for her, she is important to him, she is the other half of him, but he is too focused on be a good man, be a good husband, be a good father, I don't think he can spare the breath to want her, whether he could articulate it to himself or not. but then Kathy is gone, and I can't pinpoint the exact moment but everything shifts. the trapdoor has just given way beneath their feet.

I think we all agree that Fault is the lightbulb moment, for both of them. That is the point at which they cannot ignore it, cannot hide from it, cannot pretend that the connection between them is anything other than what it is. they both know, in that moment. Gitano's gun to Elliot's head, and Liv can't pull the trigger, they are stripped bare right in front of each other's eyes. He knows he loves her, and chose her over Ryan. And she knows she loves him, and chose him over Rebecca. But in that moment they both see the other's love, too. He sees her love of him. She has seen his love of her. They are exposed.

But they button it back up; Liv leaves him and maybe they could have gone for something more but he can't do the job without her and she doesn't want to do the job without him and she comes back, and when she sits down at her desk she is saying i am here to do the job with you, and that means that the rest of it, the love has to be put aside. they have to choose which side of the coin they get, home or work, love or partnership, and they choose the job.

But the love is there, now, and it keeps rearing its head, over and over until he snaps and leaves. They can't hide from it.

I watched intentionally trying to pinpoint a Moment, but no great revelation came to me as a specific point at which it became clear that it was love. It's just. one day you look up and it's there, and it's like it's been there all along.

I was in the middle before I knew I had begun.