#we see how charlie treats people he likes. and he doesnt treat them like he treats cameron.

[watashi-wa-ame]

what really truly convinced me charlie didnt ever like cameron was the deleted scene - in the cave - because "who knows, who cares?" wouldnt be his response if he did. it all makes more sense if he hated him the whole time anyway. not telling him about neil, insulting him daily, glaring at him in the beggining, telling him not to come to the meetings...? would you do that to someone you cared about? i dont think charlie was joking and i dont think he "secretly liked him all along." in fact i think the whole movie is setting you up to hate cameron from the beggining, which is funny because thats why i like him so much. its not setting you up via camerons actions, just what the others say about him - which doesnt work. that just makes everyone else look cruel. it makes cameron look justified. of course he turned to nolan when he was being treated like that. you cant "they were right to hate him all along" when they - mostly charlie - treated him like that. it just makes it look like they pushed him to it. its funny, the attempt to make cameron dislikable is what makes him so likable and sympathetic for me.

(obligatory "i like everyone in this movie but theyre mean to cameron to an unreasonable degree and we should aknowledge that and can do so without hating the others)

(admittedly i think i could be persuaded in this)

[liveontelevision]

Okay, this started as a rant about Lucifer lore and turned into an argumentative essay on why Lucifer is a bottom. My b.

18+ Smut ahead, lots of angst

•••

Here's the thing about Lucifer. He was an awesome dreamer, fell in love with Lillith, and was banished to Hell. Literally forced to see what the gift of good will can do at its worse. Unless he's made some personal contact with a sinner to get like updates about what the gift of good will did right, he had to be stuck in a depression for centuries, at least until Charlie was born. And while that would've definitely given him a new passion, he'll never feel confident in dreaming again.

With how much he dislikes sinners and what they represent, i wonder if there had to be some strain on their relationship when it came to Lillith taking control? They never really talk about if they had a fallout or if she just disappeared, but i dont think they really got divorced either.

When Lucifer looks at that family picture and winces, does he feel bad about not contacting charlie? About something he did to make lillith leave? Or maybe he feels bad about being upset at lillith for leaving in the first place? There's so much to umpack there i live for the lore.

Love Interests:

But when that comes to potential love interests in the future, Lucifer hasnt had to court anyone before like ever. Not in the circumstances that they live in a big city like Hell. So when he finally ends up catching feelings, he has no idea. People around the hotel literally need to pick up on context clues for him and have an intervention to tell him he's in love again.

Even if he hasnt seen lillith in 7 years, their relationship had to be a drastic change compared to new love. I think that his love interest would also pick it up before he does, and you would let him work at his own pace. Fuck, it is so important that he goes through this process at his own pace.

With so much strain on his past relationships with loved ones, he fully gaslights himself into thinking he doesnt deserves and isnt allowed to feel affection anymore. I hate making characters i love suffer. But i feel like in his state of mind he'd go through depressive episodes and panic attacks, maybe some night terrors. Theyed be about his past and his subconscious would essentially tell him he has feelings again, and he shouldn't act them in case he scares you away and abandons you, like heaven. Or drives you away like lillith. Or purposely blocks you out like charlie. Mans is struggling i swear. He needs some comfort.

After finally coming to terms, hes a nervous wreck about every decision he makes. He'll constantly stare in the mirror in the mornings, making sure he looks his best, would plan mental scripts before even having a conversation with you, and would become a bumbling mess just trying to make jokes out of the situation, some base level actions, like how we saw in the show. He'll manage to finally ask you out, but all he really knows how to do is profess an undying love (i feel like his confession to lillith was hella dramatic) so it was a little awkward, but still cute. And of course you said yes.

So let's say its been 5+ years since he moved into the hotel, met you and finally managed to confess his feelings. When it comes to the actual relationship? You give him reassurance and support him through his mental episodes, and laugh at his jokes and praise him for everything he does. He has such intense imposture syndrome though, that even other demons have to reassure that theres no way you dont love him with all your being. Because it is literally obvious to everyone but him.

He's pretty good at doing the romantic fluff stuff in public, he loves to make a big show out of treating you like royalty and even trying to embarrass you when you become close enough. He's always more charasmatic in public, it seems easier than doing that alone.

Not in a negative way, but Lucifer is so never to be alone with you. You take the lead a bit more in those scenarios, suggesting ideas like movies or just coming up with small talk yourself. He needs someone who'll be patient with him. Being alive for millions of years AND being left or shamed by all your loved ones during that time is literally the definition of Truama.

Of course he's been bottling all that shit up, he has no one to confide with. There's no one who's been alive and witnessed it all the way he has. So bless you for loving and caring for him even without understanding all hes been through.

You'll have some rough patches, where this emotional side locks him away from you and everyone else. It might be a few days before you see him. He'll lock himself in his office, pumping out ducks by the dozen just to keep himself from sleeping, because he's scared he'll have night terrors if he feels asleep. He's in a constant loop;

"what if i fucked up?"

"what if i try to talk about it and then they realize how bad i fucked up?"

"what if that's enough of a reason for them to leave me?"

"what if i scare them away?"

"what if that fucks this up?"

"what if i fucked up.. Again..?"

After he leaves his office, youre excited to see him out and about, but you cant make a big deal out of it. You have to speak to him calmly, make sure he's physically okay before talking to him about his thought process. It might take awhile, but he'll eventually trust you enough to open up. And of course it'll never be bad enough for you to leave him, he's just struggling.

Physical Contact:

It takes him an even longer time to become physical with you. He hasnt been intimate for over a decade at this point, but as soon as he becomes comfortable with little affections like hand holding, cuddling, wrapping his arms around your waist, and kissing? Hoo boy, he melts after your first kiss. It couldve been even a small peck and he would still become a nervous wreck just trying to ask for more.

He'll ask for physical touch more than provide it at first. You'll give him a quick kiss and he'll look up at you super eager just like, "another?" He'll grow into tastful pda's, linking arms, quick hugs and smooches, holding hands all that.

He becomes putty in your hand when you're alone though. You'll nudge him to lean against your shoulder or even lay his head in your lap while youre lounging or watching movies. He becomes so relaxed in your presence, that you'll want to suddenly peck him just to see his suddenly flustered reaction.

You'd give him massages that he would always be hesistant over. He was always a little nervous that he wasnt giving enough to you, but you were quick to assure him that wasnt the case. You'd straddle his hips while giving him a slowww massage. It starts with light touches, tracing your fingers over his shoulder blades and spine. You'd trace your fingers over his chest when you would cuddle too, depending on the position. Or stroke his back sweetly. It was enough of a distraction to keep his mind occupied, away from any spiraling thoughts he might be having.

He purrs. Convince me that he doesnt purr. (You cant)

Being secluded for so long probably means that he doesnt fly as much as he used to. It was probably a passion of his, and he was especially delighted to share it with lillith and charlie.

So during those 7 years he barely flew, he also didnt take care of his wings. I feel like theyre something to be summoned, so they arent constantly tucked into his back. You'd basically scold him sometimes to just let you clean his wings.

You'd do it in like a spring-type bathhouse that Lucifer would have in his castle somehow. It was one of the first intimate moments he's experienced in years, so he was generally going insane. Feeling your hands and a little comb rake through the feathers on his giant wings? You'd have to tap his shoulder sometimes to keep him from falling asleep to the relaxation alone. After the first time, the water you used was pretty dirty and he had a lot of loose feathets that were combed out. Damn, he needed this.

Intimacy:

After awhile, you sit down and would have a discussion about being intimate in bed. Lucifer would be absolutely nervous about overstepping by asking this, (even though you've been together for about a year at this point). He would use his mental scripts and basically practice what he wanted to say.

It would mainly be him saying he wants to do this because he loves you and youve done so much for him that he wants to give back to you in this way. It would consist of him saying its okay if you dont want to, or if you ever want to stop to just say so. But of course you want to, how could you not?

It would start slow, he actually tries taking the lead in this specific situation. He would kiss you first, his lips trembling at the thought that this is actually happening. Feeling his nerves, you'd cup his face and stroke his cheeks with your thumbs lightly. That will help him ease up enough to start letting the passion take over more.

He'd become more confident in slipping his tongue into your mouth and placing his hands on your hips to pull you closer to him. Lucifer would get lost in the moment, pulling you to straddle his lap as he kissed and licked and bit his way across both your shoulders and down to the softeness of your breast. After leaning back to look at the damage his eyes would become increasingly wide, looking up at you with a flustered expression. Seeing you losing it as much as he was, gave him enough courage to keep up at it.

He would almost hesistantly take a hold of your breasts and would massage them softly, running his thumbs across your nipples and becoming absolutely delighted at the reaction you gave. The adrenaline from the pleasure would make you start grinding against his lap, which would make lucifer's hands on your hips pull away for a moment and make his breath stutter. Lucifer would look you up and down as if he didnt know what to do next, studying your body with darting eyes. You'd press a small kiss on his forehead before guiding his hands back onto your hips with yours, keeping your eyes on him the entire time.

"Are you okay, Luci?" He would gulp before nodding his head and turning ridiculously red across his face, maybe from the idea of what was to come, maybe just from your voice alone. You'd keep your hands ontop of his at your hips as you'd keep moving, letting out breathy moans. He would be holding his breath without realizing, an absolute nervous wreck just from the view.

He would already be hard just from the previous make out session, so this would cause him to lean his back against the bed, his strength giving out. You'd keep up at it, feeling his hips jolt up to meet yours at times.

He was a sweaty, twitching mess in front of you and you hated to admit how much that excited you.

His scripted plan was immediately forgotten, but he was quick to remember that he wanted to please you.

He'd snap out of his state of intense pleasure, to carefully switch positions, him looking over you with your back against the bed.

You both discuss it, of course, attempting to set boundaries before hand. Even just the tender discussion would get him riled up. So he'd lean foward and kiss you again, showing off his forked tongue before peppering kisses down your entire body, until he was close enough to let his hot breath heat up your folds.

You'd feel his nervous breath on you before delving in. He would be hesistant of course, but would be quick to get used to your entrance after running his tongue across your entirety multiple times. Lucifer loves providing pleasure this way, so his brain immediately knew what to do once the nerves past. He was quick to take a tight hold onto your thighs to keep you in place as he entered you with his demonic lengthy tongue. He would look up at you as he sort of aimlessly dug around at first, waiting for a reaction. Once he'd see you dip your head back with a muffled moan, he would close his eyes to focus all his attention to that one spot. He'd reach his thumb around to circle and massage your clit that he would find far too quickly. You'd arch your back and try to get more friction against his tongue, but it's easy to forget that he is quite literally the strongest being in Hell. You weren't going anywhere.

He'd love feeling your hands in his hair and would absolutely lose it feeling you pull hard when he'd hit just the right spot. As soon as he set a steady thythm and was hearing your voice become more unhinged, he'd speed up to an extent that you didn't realize was possible after going for so long. You discussed cumming before and he made it very clear that he was okay with you finishing on his face. Fuck, he wanted it. You still warned him, moaning out his name to get his attention, "I-I'm almost there- K-Keep doing that.. like that..! Luci-" you'd almost direct him though the whole process, but were quick to become a moaning mess unable to communicate with words. You'd reach your limit and he would let you buck up into his face this time, loosening his grip on your thighs. He'd pull away after licking you clean, sending overstimulated pleasure across your entire body, with a line of your juices following his tongue as he lifted his head. He would pant with his tongue still sticking out of his mouth, and even through hazy eyes you loved seeing his demonic tongue and thinking about how it just drove you to climax.

Things would switch up again, and you'd sit him against the back of the bedframe. you'd have another quick discussion before seating yourself slowly on his length, which had been throbbing for any contact since the night started. The first few times, he'd do his best not to cum immediately. He hadn't been touched like this in a while, after all. You'd only begin to move once you made sure he was okay since his struggle was written all over his face.

The moment you began to keep a steady space, he would jut his hips upwards, becoming needy to feel this sensation he hadn't felt in over a decade. The first time didn't last long. It was sweet, and he would constantly moan out your name and babble on about how much he loves you. The entire time, you'd be praising him through every move until he was going too fast for you to get a sentence out.

He'd cum inside of you, another previously discussed topic. You essentially had to beg to convince him it was okay. You'd collapse onto his chest, a position he didnt see often. While the two of you always cuddled, you were so focused on making sure he was comfortable, Lucifer realized you didnt often get the chance to just relax on top of him. So after realizing that? Aftercare was amazing.

He'd let you sit with him inside you for a while, before pulling you off and immediately cleaning you up. Some nights, when he felt especially dominant, he would lap up his own cum from your incredibly sensitive cunt. He would swallow some of it, but was mainly pushing anything that dripped out back into your entrance.

After cleaning you up, he would wiggle his way back underneath you and pull you onto his chest, enjoying taking care of you the way you took care of him.

After the first night, lucifer would be much more confident. He'd have that healthy glow, but would be more assertive during meetings, more communicative and wouldnt shut others out as often. It really helped him realize how much you gave to him, and he was determined to give all that and more back to you.

[teeth-cable]

Why Lucifer being a good person is fucking stupid:

So in the show canon Lucifer and Lilith were kicked out because they were dreamers and gave Eve the fruit of knowledge. Based off the lore of Helluva Boss Lucifer 99% is the sin of Pride. In the show Lucifer is just a quirky theatre major who just wants to reconnect with his daughter...

Ok so lets analyze why this does not make sense in the worldbuilding. Lucifer is the King of Hell, a.k.a. a place full of homicidal maniacs and various other people. And since angelic weapons can harm angels (which is stupid btw) and sinners have been stealing weapons left behind by angels... Lucifer logistically cannot be a good person because these people could just decide to try to murder him if he was too weak. He needs the sinners and populace to fear him or respect him. Since Helluva takes place in the same setting Lucifer must have put in the social hierarchy of hell, approved it or doesn't do anything about it. Which means he plays some part in Stolas and Stella being forced to wed and the imps plus hellhounds being treated like garbage.

Then we get into story construction problems. Like if Charlie and Lucifer have a good relationship instantly then almost all the problems in the show can be solved at a snap of a finger because of Lucifer's power level. Its a similar problem with Alastor but worse because Lucifer is stronger. Like Alastor tho is implied to be weakened and forced to do this so there is intrigue storywise and limits on his personality and power. Lucifer is angel and can just like idk zap the Vees. Theres no threat, risk or anything now.

Also this Lucifer may have slept with Eve which either implies he cheated on Lilith or Adam was cheated on twice and Lucifer also agreed with genocide

And what wouldve been better is Lucifer being a shitty dad or person WHICH WE HAD IN THE PILOT. Like Lucifer being awful is actually better for the previous reasons and Charlie's own character. Like Charlie is supposed to be an underdog despite being princess and has an impossible task and if her father doesnt believe in her theres another personal level to then and maybe some of the audience could connect with her. And if Charlie's dad hates her or something you could easily write in and make Charlie struggle more by having him cut off her resources. Heck if her dad is awful then you can write in how Charlie feels about being so morally different. Then slowly build up to when we see Lucifer for the first time and actually have it feel special

This just makes me missed the pilot even more. While it did have it's own problems with the worldbuilding and characters, a majority of its ideas were still believable.

A better angle for Lucifer would be if he was a morally grey character. He can still be a decent father but a terrible ruler. Of course, that angle wouldn't work because everything in this show has to be black and white, where it literally tells you in a song, "Cause the rules are black and white" despite the same show critiquing its Heaven for the same black and white thinking.

I'm not against the idea of Lucifer being a decent father because there are still other ways the show can create conflict between him and Charlie. For example, he does get her the meeting into Heaven but it's at a cost. If she's unable to convinced Heaven, she has to abandon the hotel. Or maybe he is skeptical of Charlie's idea so he makes her overcome the hotel's problems, like the Vees, alone, to prove how strong and passionate she is. Of course, if they hurt Charlie, he can easily kill them, but it can serve as a great character moment for the both of them. Charlie learning Hell is brutal, Lucifer now hating the hotel because it will hurt Charlie, and create a new conflict where Charlie and Lucifer are against each other. Or the fact Lucifer was the one who allowed the exterminations to happened and Charlie has to undo her father's actions.

I'm only focusing on Lucifer being a "good" person through parenting because almost everything else, he's a bad guy. Not only was this the same man who allowed the yearly genocide of the sinners but also he created the classist, racist social hierarchy and system in Hell, and let the pride ring become so awful, the overlords, a group of powerful sinners, are taking advantage of regular sinners daily.

[stuck-in-the-ghost-zone]

hi!!!! kicks my feet id like to see ur wiwi first death thoughts pls

- @suckinitup

MY BELOVED MUTUAL SUCKINITUP HOW ARE YOU. HEAD IN HANDS. I LOVE WILLIAM WISP. FUCK. i think abt him constantly but i almost never write down my thoughts because if i think abt him for too long i make myself sick. like fr. i love him too much. ouuguhghhg going to just straight copy paste this under a cut because it is SO LONG sorry for any typos or sentences that sound weird out of context bc these were originally discord messages:

ohhhhhhh wiwi first death. god . i have so many fucking emotions about wiwi first death. before i get into this im going to say fork found in kitchen to myself because so much of how i view wiwi comes from a VERY SPECIFIC type of dp fanon that it would take me 12 years to actually explain in detail so im gonna say just trust me and understand that william wisp is literally just a fuckign. walmart rebrand of a type of danny characterization i really wish people would just oc-ify (thank you charlie slimecicle for doing this for me)

okayyyyyy okay okay okay. i love there being like. a STARK fucking difference between william before the fall and william after the fall. william before the fall was so much... brighter. in every sense of the word. he looks ALIVE because he is! hes just a . regular fuckign 16 yr old boy. that weird kid in your math class. and yeah he has . suuuuper undiagnosed untreated depression but like its a small rural town thats normal i think. hes got his little group of friends to spend hours with going on cool hikes and reading about the paranormal at the library and sitting in circles talking about conspiracy theories and things. i think UPP is. awesome. i hesitate to get too attached to them in headcanon world just because i dont want bizly to then introduce us to them in s3 and i have to reframe my whole mindset . whatever. i have vague ideas of who they are but the important bit is like. i just think theyre really good friends. and they spend a lot of time together. and william is kind of their defacto leader because... he is the only one of them who actually has truesight. they all believe in ghosts and monsters and stuff but william is the only one who can actually SEE THEM. like. constantly. and thats a lot. and even though they believe him they dont really like.... understand. which kind of makes william feel disconnected from basically everyone around him at all times. i dont think truesight is probably a well-known thing?? so when he was little and started crying to his parents about monsters they thought he just had bad night terrors and then he just................. hes 16 now and still talks about it (less so now, hes learned the horrors of middle- and hihg-school Shame and not to be Super Weird All The Time) so its more like. hmm theres something Wrong here but we dont know what and we dont know how to help. other people (you included ros) have said this better than me but goddddd you knowww the dynamic btwn william and his parents is rough. they love him! so much! and they want to support him! and william loves them too! but they dont GET IT they dont UNDERSTAND and its like. you know what i mean. when you get a mental health diagnosis and suddently everyone is treating you like youre made of glass and nobody really knows what to say around you anymore or whatever. you know what i mean. that.

ANYWAY ALL THIS IS FUCKING. PREAMBLE. GOD. the fall. man. i think there is a STRICT UPP rule of "dont go into the whispering woods alone" and thats the case for the ENTIRETY of their friendship. DONT go into the woods alone. william knows exactly what kind of shit lives in the woods and he knows hes the only one that can reliably see them and he doesnt want anyone to get hurt. MINIMUM of two members for whispering woods investigations. (this is not a town rule or anything. i think the adults of deadwood are aware that its a weird place but it all gets brushed off like . aha everywhere has quirks! and the UPP are like. the conspiracy kids that know the Real Stuff going on. very..... house of anubis is the closest Real Media vibe i can think of rn. UPP pre-fall is like the closest u will get to . scooby doo style monster of the week shenanigans that arent really super serious because theyre safe as they can be about it! bunch of kids doing a ouija board. you know how it is)

uhhhhhhh and then william starts acting weird! i think all of them are on a whispering woods investigation together and theyre all walking together and then william starts lagging behind, staring out at something none of them can see, kind of like. zoned out. tranfixed. and when theyre like "will what do you see?" he shakes his head and snaps out of it like. huh? what? nothing lets keep walking. (it was a wisp btw. obviously) and there are a couple more incidents of him doing this same thing on that one hike until eventually they decide to call it because theyre not finding anything else and tbh william youre kind of freaking us out here. will you be okay? and hes like yeah of course i will guys its nothing i swear. and then they all go home.

and thennnn without telling anyone a couple days later, william goes on a walk in the woods alone. he broke his OWN rule . on that hike he saw wisps and they were just too far away to see clearly off in the distance between the trees but he just Kept Seeing Them and the curiosity was just nagging and nagging away in his brain so much he had to know what they were (thats wisp magic babyyyy you know the mythology around them i dont need to explain that to you) . (and also there is a fair amount of. lack of self preservation because of the previously mentioned untreated unmanaged depression but if i start talking about that in detail i will overshare and also be soooooo emo forreal. know that that is an EXTREMELY important part of this decision but im also going with a little more of the teen mystery angle with this rn. bloody gory mental illness is for after he falls) so he packed his monster investigation backpack and he just. left. didnt even tell his parents he was going he just walked out of the house after school and went into the woods. and he saw the wisps again, but now that he was alone they were Closer and Brighter and they would move whenever he got close and then there was a trail of them ! like they were Leading him somewhere

and i think with some of the monsters he sees he can feel whetehr or not theyre out to hurt him . and the wisps dont feel like that. they feel... well. cold,becaue theyre ghosts, but also warm at the same time? inviting. they dont want to hurt him (they do) they just want to show him something and william "too curious for his own good" wisp wants to know what that thing is! i think he knows the woods really really well because he spends a lot of time out there. so somewhere far away in the back of his mind he kind of knows what theyre leading him toward. but he still jsut Has To Know, so he keeps jogging, keeps hopping over fallen logs and around low branches and theres always a little blue flame juuuuust out of reach so he keeps going . and then he gets to the cliff. its like a full on. burst out of the trees there is a wisp juuuust on the edge where the ground falls away. i think he trips on a root and falls flat on his stomach before he can completely just run off. it gives him a second to catch his breath, to look out and See where he is. for things to kind of come crashing down on him. if he hadnt tripped he wouldve run right off the edge and fallen and it was close enough of a near death experience for it to scare him. but the wisp is still there, and its the biggest brightest one hes seen yet and if he looks around he would see it looks like the entire forest behind him is glowing with tiny blue fires like theyre all watching him. i dont think hes really. thinking coherent thoughts at this point he just kind of. realizes now that hes out here he doesnt really want to go home. he doesnt want to go back to school, doesnt want to eat lunch in the bathroom and think about his brothers empty bedroom across the hall and have his parents look at him with such a weird mix of love and awkward pity and he knows his friends say they believe him but he can see it in their eyes sometimes that the things he says scares them and he really just has been a freak his whole life.... and he realizes as hes thinking all of this he's gotten to his feet and walked toward the wisp on the edge of the cliff. and hes just standing there feet on the very edge staring at it. its floated away now, hanging over the drop at eye level with him but its probably still close enough he could just... reach out.... and try to grab it...... and his feet slip on the rocks and JUST as he closes his hand around the wisp it almost feels like something pushes him (probably just the wind.. right?) and he falls.

he does Not remember hitting the bottom thank god. he remembers falling, and falling, and in the fall he realized he was still holding the wisp he grabbed in his hand and so he pulled it close to his chest as he fell and it almost felt like it was burning him but it was *cold* and .. then he woke up! he woke up in a misty foggy field in what looked to be the middle of the night but if he looks at the sky too long it looks *weird* its just black and empty and there are weird bluish swirls in it that could be clouds but look different, and there are trees in the distance but whenever he tries to walk toward them it feels like theyre moving the same distance away so it never really feels like hes getting anywhere.. and he trips over what he thinks is a rock and lands in the foggy grass and looks behind him and realizes *oh my god thats a gravestone-* and then he wakes up again, for real this time !!! (<< that scene is like. thats His Island. thats his lair or whatever. remember when mal first took him to the spirit world and they were in the graveyard and mal told him that was his. im going with dp style spirit world lairs and this one is williams. hear me out)

aaand. when he wakes up for real. he is at. the bottom of the cliff. EVERYTHING hurts. everything hurts so fucking badly but also everything is like... weirdly numb? and he doesnt really remember that weird dream with the fog and the trees and the grave its all kind of fading as he wakes up more and more and ... his hands are empty hes not holding the wisp anymore. he doesnt know how much time has passed. was any of that even real or did he just have some kind of nervous breakdown and jump off a fuckign cliff? i think he fucking sits there and cries about it for a loooooong time. and everythihng hurts but its gonna start getting dark soon he NEEDS to go home before it gets dark, his parents will start to worry about him and he doesnt want to do that to them. also he might need to get to a hospital or something but hey! he can move! he can stand up and walk! so he must not have any broken bones or anything he just. is bruised and sore probably. and so he. sooooo slowly. so slowly. makes his way back up the cliff (theres. a path. he doesnt have to climb i promise) and back home. alone. no wisps or anything, just william alone with his thoughts. which is . goddd its bad. thats why it takes him so long. ohhh my god what am i even gonna fucking say when i get there. hi mom and dad sorry i needed to clear my head and follow some weird ghosts and in the process i tried to kill myself and it didnt work? fuck?

so by the time he gets home... huh. the door is locked thats weird. its not fully dark yet and his parents know he stays out late with his friends a lot of the time so they usually leave the door unlocked for him. so he knocks. and his mom answers the door and takes one look at him and just fucking breaks down into tears. and so his dad comes in from around the corner to see whats going on and he starts crying too. and william is so. freaked out by this. guys whats wrong what happened. turns out he has been missing for. two weeks. nobody knew where he was or what happened and the woods are alive and weird and anyone who went out in a search part just ended up getting lost themselves and came back like an hour later with nothing. they thought he was dead. (which. i mean. he was. but like. not in the way they thought). so theres this big huge emotional family group hug or whatever with william all dirty with leaves and twigs in his hair and torn clothes and mud on his hands and feet and his mom and dad are just like oh thank god youre alive thank god youre home what happened to you and... man. euguhhhhahghhhh. emo. sorry. god. head in hands .

i thiiink. he kind of ends up telling them what happened. he leaves out the wisps though. his watered down version is.. i just needed to clear my head, i went out into the woods, i got lost, i tripped and fell. (remember how william downplays it for dakota when he asks. i tripped and fell) he doesnt tell them about the wisps but like. that almost makes it worse becuase they KNOW about his bad mental health even if they dont fully understand it and.... this version makes it sound suspiciously way more like it was just a direct suicide attempt. which. william IMMEDIATELY regrets as soon as it leaves his mouth. but thats his story now. so everything kind of... goes back to normal? normal ish??? as nrmal as they can i fucking guess?? for a couple days and he has to go back to school and. god it fucking sucks. gossip . you know how it is. hey that kid tried to kill himself and got lost in the woods for two weeks what a weirdo he freaks everyone out . that kind of stuff. so hes more isolated than EVER and even his friends wont really talk to him although theyre more... sad. than anything else. they just dont really know what to say. theyre teenagers. idk. uhhhhhh then one day he reallyreallly REALLY doesnt want to be somewhere so he hides in the bathroom and.. doesnt realize it at first but he goes invisible. and its not until a couple other kids come in and leave and dont acknowledge him at all that he notices something is weird (he feels bone chillignly cold but like. its a shitty old school building in the very beginnings of winter of course its gonna be cold) and he looks in the mirror and realizes he cant see himself. and after that more and more of his powers kind of. slowly manifest? and he is VERY bad at controlling them and he plans not to tell anyone at first (hes already enough of a freak) until one day his dad finds him like. halfway through the floor in his bedroom and its this . kind of funny ridicuous but also really scary moment. and william has a realization at some point like. oh. i think i *died*. and auughhghg. i think thats all i ahve for now. but . man. when i tell you i think about this soo fucking much man.

[trashogram]

frrr its just like bro cmon do something different. I like it when shows explore parental issues and stuff but it just feels overused at this point. and yeah charlie and via’s are def not explored at all.

for charlie, i mean i kinda get it but not really? theres been like foreshadowing of how they were “pulled apart” and its not j like lucifer idk leaving for no reason, but still one lil father daughter duet doesnt erase that yk? and (theory) if lillith or some external thing pried them apart why didnt lucifer just say that to charlie instead of pulling up and being like “lol sorry. caviar mountain anyone?”. i hope we focus on that next season and more of like morningstar family lore instead of backstory stuff. Alastors cool but damn i actually dont want him to be the main focus. sometimes i forget charlie’s the like “main” character of the show.

AND OCTAVIA OMGGG BROOO. WE PHYSICALLY SEE STOLAS BEING SHITTY AND NOBODY FOCUSES ON IT 😭 LIKE HUH?!!??? BRO TALKED ABOUT HIS NASTY SEX LIFE W BLITZO IN FRONT OF HER THATS DISGUSTING OMG. stolas is literally just like- omg bro get ur head out of the gutter. stop focusing on urself for like 5 seconds pls and pay attention to your poor child. he hasnt even like tried to talk to her or anything like imagine ur dad cheats on ur mom and then ghosts u for his boyfriend that he also treats like shit. justice for octavia

Yes, using daddy issues as traumatic backstory for multiple characters is not great. I agree with you. But the thing that really takes the cake for me is one thing in particular. And I wanna say for the record that this is my personal opinion so keep that in mind.

As far as using Daddy Issues as a major theme in Hazbin Hotel —They dropped the ball so fucking hard with Charlie and Lucifer. One of the reason the pilot for Hazbin caught my attention was because it looked like the daughter of the Devil was going to be this optimist that wanted to help people rather than hurt and scare them for all eternity. And in turn, Lucifer (and Lilith) would be disappointed in his only child for turning out that way because Lucifer would be more akin to how he’s normally portrayed (evil).

I was so on board to root for Charlie. And I was excited for the possibility of Lucifer, after practically disowning his daughter for not meeting his expectations, realizing that Charlie is his own reflection: a rebel adamant on changing the status quo.

Y’all know I love Hazbin’s Lucifer. He’s my poor little meow meow. But damn it, we could’ve had something really beautiful!

…Yeah.

And oh god. Honey I could write a 10 page paper on Stolas’s neglect of Octavia and how mistreated she is not only by him but by her own creators and the fandom for Helluva Boss. It’s wild. It’s mystifying. It makes me grip the bars of my cage as I wait for the day when a lot of these younger fans get older and realize how messed up the whole thing is.

[doostyaudi]

this is a masterpost for my Rave-n AU for madness combat! information is below the cut cuz theres so much! '^^

what is the Rave-N AU?

its a madcom au where people fight to the beat of music, and what music they use depends on what genre of music they're assigned. basically its just madness combat but if it was a rhythm game lol. the lore is different in many aspects, but in general things play out exactly to how it plays in the canon series.

where did you get the idea?

it originally started at Rave-N Hank (rnank), my hanksona. he was just a standalone hanksona before i decided to expand his universe a bit, and here we are now! rnank is STILL my hanksona btw

what can and cant we do?

well, im very lax with this au, i dont have many restrictions other than to just be mindful of the lore and be respectful of my decisions when it comes to the story and characters, thank you!

oh, btw, do NOT treat these characters like their canon counterparts, treat them like u would treat someone's oc as that is what they are. All canon characters within this au are my ocs.

and yes you can put ur ocs into this, as well as making ocs that are exclusively within the au. the only thing to keep in mind when adding an oc to this universe is that if theyre an official citizen of Nevada, they NEED a spiked collar (employers and higher powers are the only ones who are exempt from this rule), doesnt matter how it looks at all, they just need one!

also yes you can ship characters together (oc x canon is welcome and encouraged!!) idc who u ship with who (maybe i will in the future but rn idc)

if you have any additional questions, feel free to ask in my inbox! ill be more than happy to answer! if i find it important enough, ill update this segment with that question added!

characters

main cast: sanford, deimos, doc, tricky, auditor, sheriff, jeb, and phobos

why isnt hank included? he is my hanksona, he is a completely different guy lol. if you want to get a could reference pic of him, look at his artfight page (sorry if you dont have an artfight acc, ill make a new ref for him soon enough!)

literally everyone else: the machine (redesign needed), the maker, conductor, deliberator, stygian, skinner (redesign needed), the sun, torture, white hank, happy hank (skittles), dr.crackpot

misc: aahw guys, alternate rnaudi design, alternate rnaudi design 2, moon (idk if i should keep her in or not..)

my ocs (not canon btw): yara, 04, charlie, maudi, yara but in a different timeline, bank (old old old hanksona), manager

honorable mentions (other ppls ocs/own rave-n designs): redge, explorer

any characters you want to see in the au? my inbox is always open! :3

random assortment of information abt/relating to the au

rnackpot's odd music taste , how music works during fighting (part 1), why are there 2 keystone fragments?, rambles abt rnaudi (part 1), madcom hc that applies here, polyamory? in my madcom? more likely than you think, rnygian hates rnank but cant do anything abt it :(

that is everything, for now! ill try to update it as things go on! feel free to ask me any questions u have!! thank you for reading!

Have the entire twilight movie in a stamp, as a treat!

[greml1nb0i]

While hazbin premise is Intresting I feel it falls flat as the main cast is more on the less redeamable side and deserves to be in hell if you think about it more. As most of them enjoy killing and have killed and alastor Is just a cannibal. They literally had to make heaven more bad to just make the main cast look good.

That's what i hate about Viv's characters and story progressions.

The Best Example is Angel Dust.

Pilot Angel vs Viv's Angel:

Pilot Angel, is careless and crass but he still shows empathy when he realizes he's hurt someone he care about.

When he makes his one off joke about how no one is in the hotel, it makes Charlie sad, and we see Angel get upset by this, he attempts to console her but backs off the last min. Even how he talks to Vaggie feels like they have had prior conversations together, like they know each other.

Viv's Angel, is rude, sexually harasses everyone and has little empathy towards others.

He yells at Husk for just being there for him, [scene before loser baby] then again at Husk AND Vaggie for calling him out on his bullshit. [every scene with husk telling Angel to stop being fake and pushing Angel off of him, and the one scene in ep2 iirc where Vaggie tell angel he has literally never tried to be better and he walks away in self pity]

He definitely pretends to care about Nifty "not ending up in the gutter" She was stealing cleaning supplies, how is that comparable to being SA'd and abused in the workplace? He never apologizes to Husk for harassing him, and even goes so far as to excuse his own behavior towards others cuz "he's struggling".

Charlie is another example,

In the pilot yea she was naive but at least she had common frickin sense. She knew how to trick Alastor into working for her, without making a deal with him, cuz her dad taught her "you don't take shit from other demons". She and Vaggie actually had a dynamic in their relationship rather than Vaggie being an accessory to Charlie. She actually tries to gain understanding.

In Viv's show, Charlie doesnt even understand her own people, let alone how terrible they all are, and yet she wants to save them?? She doesnt understand how her own kingdom even works. Its even more frustrating when you notice that Charlie is literally a Viv self insert, in a way.

-when someone doesnt agree with Charlie, she gets mad and makes them the antagonist

-When someone doesnt agree with Viv, she gets mad and lets her fans harass people

-When someone agrees with Charlie their given this whole moment of "yay you finally agree with me" type scene

-When someone agrees with Viv they get a good ole pat on the back and "the big fucking owl, is fucking watching you, you fuck, don't disappoint me" [big brother is watching you] type comments.

Viv is passive aggressive af and so is Charlie, look at ep4. Angel is obviously upset about having to go to work, but to Charlie she doesnt care, to her Angel just wants to ditch her preschool esque exercises.

Charlie, everyone in your Hotel is an adult, why tf are you treating this like its a preschool babysitting program??

So what does she do, she invades her Angels private life and gets him abused in the process just cuz he's not doing what SHE wants him too. Then gets upset when she's told to leave after wrecking the studio AND GETTING ANGEL ABUSED.

If her Hotel was running by the rules of an actual rehab center, the Hotel would've been shut down and she would've been charged for HIPPA violations.

Honestly Adam is realistically a better person than her own people, for the simple fact the worst thing he does, is be vulgar and sexist. Whereas her people are actual rapists, serial killers and kidnappers, yet she wants these people to be seen as misunderstood.

Like if Viv wanted to critique Christianity, the whole "what's makes a sinner" idea. It would've worked way better if the sinners actually were just decent normal people trying to learn from honest mistake. Not fucking murder, but like shoplifting or something mundane. There needs to be a distinct way of saying "hey these sinners are the ones who are worthy of redemption, we will focus on them in the main plot, while these sinners will be the contrast and unworthy of redemption"

Then make some sinners actual bad people rather than edgy bad. Like yea being a rapist is bad, but there's more terrible things people can do to end up in Hell, that isn't just abuse.

For example, you could have legitimate historically bad people in the show, rather than a cast of random demons, she probably picked from a random demonology site. Or she could have used the opportunity to make modern day problems, like bigotry or extreme fascism, a topic to show for what makes an unredeemable sinner. Someone so stuck in their ways they have no chance of being a good person.

If she wants her adult show be taken seriously by adults, appropriate usage of the adult topics and shows maturity, need to sky rocket.

FFS Viv have a character punch a n@zi or something. BE FUNNY! Im tired of the fake ass "daddy issues", tasteless jokes, tonal whiplash and thinly veiled fetishes.

I have no hope for S2 getting any better

[chaos-in-the-making]

OK I've had a few hours to process and i HAVE to talk about Lucifer. Cuz like, there's so much that he represents to me as a Christian, and seeing this version of Depressed Single Dad Who Lost His Dream is EVERYTHING.

Because FIRST OF ALL!! This Lucifer is NOT power hungry, or even trying to be the Canon "rebel". He didn't even want to tempt Adam and Eve, he wanted to "gift" them with free will. That is an important difference. The other thing we learn is that HE'S TRIED TO REHAB SINNERS BEFORE. So he is from heaven, and despite what heaven did TO him (alleged victim), he still knows that heaven is better than Hell and wanted to redeem the sinners so they could ascend to a better afterlife.

THAT IS WAY DIFFERENT THAN THE BIBLICAL CANON NARCISSIST WHO WANTED TO BE WORSHIPED THE SAME WAY THAT GOD WAS WORSHIPPED. What are the implications of this???

THAT THE PERCIEVED "EVIL" IS REALLY BEING MISUNDERSTOOD.

Now there is still a clear divide of "good" and "evil" in the way people treat each other, but it is "shades of gray" as Charlie and Emily point out in their duet as far as how to categorize souls. AND LUCIFER ONCE WANTED TO PROVIDE A WAY FOR THOSE SOULS TO BE REDEEMED.

SO WHERE THE FUCK IS JESUS CHRIST?!

No that's not a rhetorical question, because in Biblical Canon, it's only through JESUS that souls are redeemed. Lucifer was never a foil to GOD, as in the Father, but he was the foil to JESUS. So in this show, where we see CROSS IMAGERY my question is ARE WE GONNA SEE JESUS AND HOW DOES HE CONTRIBUTE?!

Now I wouldn't be surprised if God the Father and Christ the Son are not actual people, and maybe just ideas of "pure" and "holiness". And maybe the cross imagery is something that Sinners made up for their religion.

But Lucifer has already made a joke about a "sacrificial lamb", and wants to redeem sinners, something that canonical only JESUS can do. So whatever knowledge the angels are holding back is going to be quite telling. (ALSO CONSPIRACY BUT WHAT IF LUCIFER IS ACTUALLY JESUS I CAN EXPLAIN)

BUT OK BACK TO LUCIFER.

This man who wanted to redeem sinners, (possibly out of guilt because giving Eve the apple made evil take root?) Has now LOST HIS DREAM. After thousands of years of watching the sinners enter Hell, and failing to redeem them, he NO LONGER BELIEVES THEY HAVE HOPE. LUCIFER HAS GIVEN UP ON THE SINNERS.

But Charlie????? Oh, Charlie is young and niave, and has been raised on the (one sided) stories of being able to reach a better place. Charlie is the Youth, the Hope for the future, the daughter of a Dreamer. AND SHE GIVES THAT HOPE BACK TO HER FATHER WHO HAD LOST IT.

Lucifer is stuck in this circle of insanity, making thousands of rubber duckies to pass the time, but we see just how fucking insane he is. Like, the sad pathetic insane, not the sexy insane. But then his daughter pulls him out, and he is confronted with the dream he once had that she has now taken up the mantle of continuing.

AND HE SAYS HOW HE DOESNT WANT HER TO HE CRUSHED. HE HAS INTENTIONALLY SHELTERED HER TO KEEP HER SAFE FROM DISAPPOINTMENT. BUT CHARLIE IS BREAKING THAT CYCLE. SHE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO BUT SHE DESPERATELY WANTS TO TRY. BECAUSE SHE HAS INHERITED THE HOPE THAT LUCIFER LOST.

AND LUCIFER IS STILL UNCERTAIN ABOUT IF ITS POSSIBLE, BUT LIKE A TRUE LOVING PARENT HE WANTS TO SUPPORT CHARLIE. AND HIM SAYING HE MISSED HER SMILE, AND HOW GRATEFUL HE IS THAT SHE IS HIS DAUGHTER HAS ME GRIPPED IN MY PARENT FEELS.

[lepoppeta]

Are there any role swaps or personality swaps in the hellaverse you think would be fun? Or even an improvement on each characters canon story

swaps in general have always been enjoyable from a storytelling perspective, at least for me. how much would the story change if this character was here instead? or if their job was different? their personality? its very fascinating.

that being said i dont think a swap is necessarily an improvement, especially when it comes to something as controversial as the hellaverse (im interpreting this as hazbin hotel and helluva boss combined). the characters as they are now are completely workable on their own, but their effectiveness relies solely on whos handling them. DISCLAIMER — im not saying im the best person to do that. a lot of the changes i think about for hazbin and helluva are just that, changes, rather that outright swaps.

starting at the basic level, i think one of the most approachable swaps is for hazbin hotel, and its simply imagining how the pilot/comic/beta personalities and occupations of the characters would affect the story as it is now. alastor is a great example of this — in the current series hes a narcissist whos pettier, more insecure, and less powerful that he lets on; in the pilot/comic he channels more of a hannibal lecter energy, where he doesnt actively go looking for fights and will leave you alone and even treat you nicely if you do the same to him; in his beta/zoophobia iteration, he comes across as much younger — a barely-there twenty-something (probably younger, honestly — he has the energy of a 13 year old with delusions of grandeur) whos content with being an edgy chaos-monger without giving a shit about coming off as palatable or gentlemanly. thats three very distinct personalities which would all react to the same situation in potentially vastly different ways.

helluva boss has less character iterations to draw from, but it still has the pilot episode. this would be more of a genre swap than an outright character one — outside of stolas, none of the main characters have changed drastically since the first couple of episodes. the pilot originally advertised an work sitcom a-la the office or brooklyn99, whereas the series now is comparable to a tele-nova. i think if the show had been planned and advertised as such it would have been less of a big deal, but i definitely think we were told one thing and then gradually given something else.

(i think hazbin hotel would have also worked as a workplace sitcom — ive definitely had an idea for that in the past. it negates the redemption storyline and becomes a story about charlie trying to save her favourite childhood vacation spot from dilapidation. in point of fact, that WAS kind of a swap, now that i think about it — hazbin became a workplace comedy, and helluva was a romantic-drama-comedy that was based off of what hazbin set up).

approaching the more drastic swaps, one of the ones ive seen for hazbin the most often and enjoy a lot in concept is where different characters are looking after the hotel, either with or without charlie. there are a fair few characters who have a foil — charlie has emily, alastor has vox, etc. — these are the ones i see the most. seeing how creators interpret different powers and personalities affecting the idea of redemption for sinners is very cool. id like to try my hand at this myself one day, but i havent found the inspiration yet.

similarly, a common swap ive seen for helluva boss is switching blitzo and stolas out for barbie wire and stella. unfortunately we dont know much about barbie or stella for me to have much of an opinion on this version. one swap i would like to try myself is swapping blitzo out for fizzarolli — off the top of my head, i think this would turn more characters into outright bad guys, or at least rivals, instead of simply being misunderstood, and im not sure how many people would actually like that.

as a general closer, genderswaps are also fun, because playing with societal expectations and seeing how that affects things like fashion and personality and relationships is always very interesting.

[i-like-gay-books]

i had this all typed up as a response to a post i saw on the heartstopper tag which was criticizing alice oseman for her treatment of ben’s character in season 2, but then i decided i can’t be bothered to interact directly with that tumblr in particular, as they said they are not actually a fan, and i doubt they would go into reading my reply with an open mind. anyways, on the topic of ben:

**heartstopper season 2 spoilers ahead**

i’m actually surprised people are coming away from the show with the impression that alice oseman didn’t give ben a redemption arc? his and harry’s arcs actually parallel each other in a lot of ways in this season, with the overarching messaging being that you can be sorry for what you’ve done and try to make amends and make yourself a better person, but that doesn’t mean that the people you’ve hurt have to let you back into their life.

i can see why it may come across as a static arc, because of the fact that neither of these characters is forgiven, but we can very clearly see by the end of the season that, as people, they are heading in a positive direction.

and as for ben specifically, we do get a bit more insight into his character, definitely more than we get in the comics. we learn that his family isn’t supportive and probably never will be, and this troubles him deeply. and in the end when we see the rainbow reaching out to him before he walks away, we can see how that fear and lack of support still affects him even though he’s realized how much of an asshole he’s been.

this is the end of the story, yes, but it’s not because of lazy writing. ben’s situation is one that will take him years to get out of, given that they are still two years out (i think? the british schooling system still confuses me) from university and even after leaving for university you’re not really out from under your parents’ thumb because they are still your financial support. the show (and the webcomic) is not likely to span further than their teenage years, and from context clues, it doesnt seem likely that ben will be able to fully accept himself in that time.

and even if all that wasn’t true, the fact remains that this is a story about nick and charlie, and if the storyline doesnt have to do directly with them or adjacent to them, it has no place, because then there’s no anchor for the story (stranger things, im looking at you. i love you, but the disjointed storylines are not the look). and ben simply cannot be adjacent anymore, because he DID assault charlie, and charlie is going through enough already without having to deal with seeing his face. (fans of the webcoming will KNOW the shit he’s about to go through with mental health.)

alice oseman writes her stories primarily so that they can be healing to young queer people (or just young people in general, tbh) dealing with the trauma involved in growing up. charlie cannot heal if he continues to let people walk all over him and treat him badly. charlie’s rejection of ben was what a lot of us needed to see, because not all of us had his strength to stand up to people who have hurt us and not let them back into our life.

because its hard when you can see that the person who you used to genuinely care about is genuinely sorry and trying to be better. but sometimes having that person in your life is only going to hurt you in the long run, and its so great that charlie was able to recognize and avoid that.

tl;dr the redemption arc was there, but that doesn’t mean the forgiveness had to be

[radiohoax]

like you cant tell me this isnt a start of a slow burn. i was a hazbin hater for SO LONG ((since the pilot aired)). but when i saw the snippet of keith singing at the start, i knew i immediately had to get into it and give it a chance. now its one of my major fixations but lets not talk about that. i went into this only knowing chaggie was canon and didnt give any thoughts to any other ships because believe it or not people can do that, but when this song came on? all of that flew out the window.

i dont know just the way these two bond in this song? absolutely immaculate. like first off, we have husk ACTUALLY trying to bond with someone. sure, he was told by charlie to go find angel and keep him safe and he did but thats all he could've done. he didnt HAVE to sit there and tell him to actually BE himself. he didnt have to tell angel about his past but he did. then, to tell him bluntly, that his life DOES indeed suck but so does his so why shouldnt they live their lives sucking together ((no pun intended istg but angel would be proud))?

also the fact i have NEVER heard husk use the word "baby" before. whether it was romantic OR platonic i dont think he's ever said it in the show, or the pilot. so im just gonna headcanon that he's using angel's lingo to try to understand him better and to encourage him to open up to him more. which i think is really sweet ((okay it's also been brought to my attention that he was literally just calling angel a baby but i like my version better LMFAO)). and the fact that husk holds out his hand for ANGEL to take first. giving him some control back in his life. and when he does he starts dancing with his TWO SETS OF HANDS. THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO ME!!!! he could've just went with one set but no husk chose both and 😭🥺💗

and the "baby that's fine by me~" "go ahead baby sing that song cmon" AUUGHHKRM THEMMMM and then the little scene of them surrounded by blue, under husks umbrella? THAT'S when i knew something changed between them. yes, even though they're softly singing to each other, it's the way they also lean INTO each other. the way they're both smiling and LOOKING at each other and the way ANGEL reaches out first for husk's hand. they now share a common ground.

then they commence into dancing with each other. it's not husk initiating the dance while angel gets pulled along, it's them both finally embracing each other and themselves while they dance together in unison and in harmony ((literally)). the way they dance together is so smooth and it WORKS. they found something that works. and the little lean in on each other at the end as they sing and look at each other? absolutely gold. phenomenal.

angel doesnt need a relationship right now because of his whole thing with valentino but he has someone he can rely on. he has a friend who looks like it's going to be definitely something more judging by the way they talked in episode 8 ((and the way angel looked at husk after he left like hello???)) and im so excited to see how their relationship plays out. and im so sorry to how i treated hazbin before 😭 call me sir repentious

Loser, Baby (Angel and Husk Duet) AAAAAAA THIS EPISODEEEEE

[marvelling-at-marvel-blog]

I feel like that episode of 9-1-1 was 90% perfection. I honestly was 100% invested in both storylines and at no point was I wanting to see more of one than the other. I may be alone in this but I actually enjoy Billy a lot. I love that Grace could go through labor and still constantly put Billy in his place. She is a queen and Charlie has the 2 best parents a girl could ask for.

Ah Tarlos. Carlos I love you, you are probably the best partner a person can have but as an amazing as a gesture as it is, you can't go buying houses and putting  people names in it, and TK baby, you cant just run away when things get hard. Yeah Carlos went a little to big but you broke the poor guys heart instead of having the difficult converations. I honeslty believe that for Carlos money doesn't matter as long as they are togther so the break up would have broken him seeing he was thinking they where gonna spend the rest of thier lives together. He has every right to be mad.

My biggest problem with the episode blends into the problem with the show in general and that is to much happens off screen. Almost all of Grace's pregnancy, how the 126 split after Owen left. I want to see how they left one by one till it was just my girl Marjan fighting the good fight.

Watching Rafa kill these scenes was a treat (He is just so talented) but I feel kind of ripped off in this Tarlos storyline. We had them break up off screen, months of them apart off screen. I would have liked to see them both dealing with not being together as much as it would hurt to watch. Then we see how hurt Carlos is with the break up and the anger he holds. Then TK wakes up and we time skip again to seeing them back together and happy. I would kill to see that path back to being a couple because I think there is a story of TK getting Carlos's trust and forgiveness and for Carlos to underatand where he went wrong. (Also kind of want to see Andrea give TK a piece of her mind, tough love) I kind of felt like this whole storyline outside of this single episode really showed no growth for TK or Carlos. The reason for the break up deserved more time to be explored.

Then we jump to the 126 being completly rebuilt and back together. Tim said he likes to show the road back to being togther but as far as I can tell 90% of that road was all of screen and in time jumps, we missed a lot of opportunity to see these characthers journeys. I may be alone in this but I dont undersatnd why they feel they have to run in current time just because you go on hiatus doesnt mean you need to time jump with the time that has passed. It feels like we have never spent any real time with these charcathers without weeks passing between episodes.

I know it seems like I only have negatives to say but I do love this show and this was a great, amazing episode just the last few minutes disappointed me.

[jackassbroadcast]

Hello im a Tommy enthusiast who watched that one stream where he monologued to foolish for like hafe an hour bc i heard it was a cool stream or wtv to realize how much amazing character moments it had that barly anyone in this damn fandom is talking about so ill fucking do it

(Only after finishing this i realized i wrote 1.7k words LOL OOPS)

If u dont know what in talking about its this stream (apologies for linking a clips channel the actual vod on foolish's channel is deleted by now)

Also heads up /rp /dsmp every time i refer to someone here by name is their character unless stated otherwise bc writing c! Before every name Is tiring LOL

Also // suicidal idealization , death mentions

The conversation starts off with foolish and tommy mining for Wilbur, and foolish questions how simply mining will solve the problem to which Tommy reponds with "they dont get solved, do they? It just ends uo with some madman screaming 'Hes solved it!' And now look at him." And how he wants to "prevent the problem before it goes outta hand" something that clearly references Wilbur and his destruction of lmanburg, which paired with him collecting stone for Wilbur as the way to stop said problems he believes if he does anything he can for Wilbur and support him by his side enough this time around, that he wont do anything like thay again, which as im writing this makes be realize by doing that we learn hes blaming himself for what happened to Wilbur in November 16th and pogtopia and a whole, by not being enough for Wilbur in his mind.

The conversation continues, foolish off hand asks why would tommy want to stop Wilbur? Weren't they friends at some point? To which tommy leads foolish to lmanburg and tells him the story of the nation (how it was him and Wilbur's nation, how they made it to espace dream's iron fist and how they held an election "which puts your life on the line, which is good- if you're confident but- perhaps we were too confident", how they lost)

Tommy: "You know the phrase: 'treat other how you wanna be treated', foolish? People dont ever listen to it. Wilbur- he decided he wanted to be treated poorly so he treated everyone around him poorly "

This Tommy quote, to me at least, so so amazingly strong in conveying how understanding he is? To the world around him. Like-

I have not seen one person bring this quote up, and yet its (at least to me) shows such growth and understanding in Tommy i saw little to nothing like it in other streams. It shows he understands, he knew Wilbur didnt change just because, he knows he was struggling, that he thought everyone around him were againt him, were going to abandon him the first chance theyll get- and he thought he deserved it. So he, as a last way to defend himself against that, hurt them first, abandoned them first, so theyll see how much of a 'bad' person he was and take him out- and tommy saw right through that, possibly understanding it more after exile.

This next qoute was talked about much more but i still wanna bring it up

Foolish: "Do you believe in second chances?"

Tommy: "Oh, no I don't really believe that its not really a thing for me foolish its just that-" *sigh* "- i believe everyone has a little bit of good in then and this is not about giving him a second chance or a third chance- its not about *chances* foolish. Its about not giving up on the poeple you care about. "

Which. I mean. I dont know how healthy that mindset is, but comign from Tommy it makes so much sense.

Techno, tubbo, eret, sapnap. These are all people Tommy used to be extremely close to, had either a war or had been betrayed by them, and yet still found it in his heart that he still cares for them, with all of these, they did horrendous things, that hurt tommy physically and mentally, while also not being once or twice, but a contentious thing, but while tommy is to this day still effected by their actions he still found it in himself to forgive, because he knows he fucked up too, a lot, and he knoes they learned from their mistakes just as he had (except c!techno FUCKKK c!techno mf doesnt learn SHITTT) and he knows, when the time comes he knows hed want the people he hurt to forgive him too. (And he wants Wilbur to do the same)

Next qoute i will cut to a couple parts because its really so good and full of character i had to bro

Foolish: "Do you consider yourself to be the good guy or the bad guy?"

Tommy: "It really depends who you ask, isn't it? Yknow? If you asked dream he'd say im *his little toy that he plays with* you know? It doesnt.."

This part really stunned me when i first heard it because, and correct me If im wrong, but i dont think tommy ever acknowledged how dream sees him, and  how right he has his viewpoint too. Just the fact tommy is so *painfully* aware of how dream doesnt even see him as a person anymore but just a toy to mess around with for a while than just throw it away when it get too boring really hurt me. Someone give this kid a hug

(Continued) Tommy: "...foolish, honestly? I used to consider myself 'the good guy', you know? The fuckin'- second in command! But these past- these past like six months or so, foolish, everything got so much harder than it was before. Because before it was just us vs bad guys, it was all so clear! But- its not been 'clear' for so long, right? It wasn't; 'these are the bad guys! These are the good guys!' Now it's : 'he's doing this and it makes him a bit worse-' i mean, it all got so complicated, so- i don't know. Depends who you ask."

He says this, in response to foolish asking if hes a good guy- but its awfully similar to if Wilbur asked him if they were the bad guys. Because foolish just asked about him, and yet in his answer tommy made sure to keep using the words "us, he's, guys" as if hes not really talking about himself, as if hes explaining how Wilbur was wrong. Which he was. Also something interesting ive noticed, he says "the last 6 months or so", which indicated that with Wilbur he knew better to follow his word and leadership- with Wilbur he was always on the right side but when he lost him he felt much more lost alone, and couldn't trust himself enough to be on the "right side" .

Foolish: "I dont know, it all seems strange because just from, you know- hearing from others and, you know, learing a little bit, its seems like you've been the hero, you've been the villain, the conqueror, the savior, and, even now, i have no idea what you exactly are."

Tommy: "that's up to you to decide, isn't it? Im just- *uh*  i dont know. These days, foolish, I'm a little weaker than i used to be"

Foolish couldn't be more right with what he said, another example of this we see where a character acknowledges tommy never sticks to one thing us Charlie when calling him "tommy fron nowhere" which shows more how he cant stick to one thing, during the course of him on the server he had been friends and enemy with nearly everyone, been on pretty much all sides, and while never really intentionally, being in the center of conflict. When foolish says he doesnt know who tommy is anymroe at this point and all Tommy says in return is that "hes a little weaker than he used to be" does to show he misses who he used to be, with lmanburg, with Wilbur, when he knew who he was, now he doesn't know who he is anymore, but still so desperately want to be more demonstrated by the lines coming rigth after that one:

(Continued) Tommy: "..I'm not- I'm now who i want to be, but-"

Foolish: "Being honest with you, Tommy, that's the same case for me as well."

Tommy: "...heres the thing, foolish, unlike you i dont really have a choice. I have to try and be who i want to be, because if i dont, very bad things are gonna happen in this server. And now that Wilbur's back i can't- quite frankly *no one* can risk that. So i dont really have a choice."

Tommy want's to change- he wants to be better than he is now, to be closer to who he used to be, no matter how impossible that might be, but he also sees it as an immediate thing, he wants to change now, or asap, which is why hes collecting stone for Wilbur in the first place- old him would've done that with ease just because Wilbur asked and he wants to have that back so badly, asap. The way he talked about this reminded me of when he tried getting over his trauma stream before he went in the prison to kill dream: he knew he wasnt the best but he tried getting over that asap to go kill dream asap. He didnt wanna take the long road of years of healing and instead thought he could get over it just like that, and that experience clearly didnt teach him anything because now hes trying to slide back to the relationship he and Wilbur used to have and ignoring the drastic changes they both had plus the bad moments that were the reason they feel out in the first place, or maybe he knows, but at this point, after everything that happened to him and the server, he doesnt care anymore? He knows hes not the same he was and he'll never be the same, because thats not how it works, but his mentor, president, big brother is back after so long tommy felt so lost and alone he thinks maybe, this time around, with Wilbur, he could try and be better again.

[sanchoyo]

danny phantom season 2, episode 17-20 thoughts! finishing up season two! the finale is the THIRD 2-PARTER OF SEASON 2. that's so many! I wonder how many season 3 will have?

see prev episode thoughts in this tag <3

-UERGH WHY DOES VLAD HAVE AN AI WITH MADDIE'S FACE ON IT. SOOO CREEPY. AND MORE 'CREATIONS' waiiiit. vlad is Dr. Frankenstein! (despite his ghost design obviously referencing vampires) HE HAS 'CREATIONS' HE MAKES THEN WONT TAKE REAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR!!! this bitch.

-danny was late and his friends immediately start going off about how hes inconsiderate, and has been treating them like sidekicks??? he just overslept, my god. chill. even if he has, be nicer about talking about it with him?? he really can't help that he sometimes has to chase the ghosts, or has a secret identity to protect...

-'what kind of ghost haunts a miniature golf course' umm. me as a ghost. next question

-imagine going home and theres a tiny child on your bed claiming to be your cousin. with as many cousins I have, I would probably believe her. but the 'ran away from home' BIT....SHES 12?? SHES SO TINY. I hate that they have her belly out in her ghost form, but I like how her colors are asymmetrical. something about her design...maybe the proportions?? are weird to me...anyway danny was good to feed her, but he shouldve taken her to his parents FIRST. or, tbh, probably jazz. (JAZZ DIDNT EVEN GET TO MEET HER!!! NOOO. I mean she said she'll be BACK BUT STILL)

-ANYWAY. shes voiced by AnnaSophia Robb, the girl who was in because of winn dixie, played as violet from charlie and the chocolate factory, and was the girl from bridge to terrabithia. (the movie that made me cry hysterically when I was 12 and I never watched it again because it Broke Me!) thats super cool.

-vlad sucks: the episode, basically. what's new!! I love how he's like, I'm Not A Villain. *immediately cuts to him torturing danny to make him transform, to get mid-transformation DNA, to perfect a Clone.* *immediately shows that he doesnt give a shit about his new daughter Dani and just wants a ''more perfect clone'' and will put her in danger to get that. will let her DIE to get that*

-Dani is danny's clone and is a girl? transgenderism....one of them has to be trans. or they both are.

-dani just. leaving at the end. WHAT? SHES 12. DONT JUST. NO!!! SHE WAS PROBABLY JUST BORN, A MONTH AGO AT MOST, RIGHT?? SHE NEEDS...SOMEWHERE TO LIVE. MONEY? FOOD?? A FAMILY?? AN EDUCATION???! WHAT DO YOU MEAN SHE'S LEAVING!!! OKAY BYE I GUESS!!! D: concern!!!

-the next ep opens with skulker chasing a ghost down. ...does skulker count as a ghost hunter in the way valerie and danny do? I mean, sure, he hunts the good guys too, but he. he hunts ghosts...also, we haven't seen his Real Form since his debut episode! tiny...

-the guys in white are back! ngl, I assumed they were a gag for that one episode. you're telling me they might actually be a threat? ok.

-valerie in her lil nasty burger uniform looks so cute!! glad shes not in that mascot uniform this time. I guess she stopped hiding that she's working there now?

-gregor having white hair, dressed in black and white...and green eyes...sam has a Type, I guess.

-danny being unnecessarily hostile about gregor. danny!!! hes been nice so far. he looks a little...tall to be 14, but. danny doesnt know anything about him! (he does Suspect, but...you cant just spy on people and be rude to them from a hunch.) also, gregor kissed her, and when she freaked out, he was like 'oh no!! sorry, we can take it slow! I understand!' which was NICE. I hate jealousy plots still tho.

-altho. umm. tucker, being concerned about danny spying on them??? SAM AND YOU WERE SPYING ON DANNY AND VALERIE A FEW EPISODES AGO!!!!! im not saying its RIGHT, but dont be a hypocrite!!! AND THEN SAM BEING MAD ABOUT IT, TOO.

-DANNY IS A 7 ON THE SCALE OF ECTOPLASMIC POWER!!! out of 10? so I want to know where the other ghosts rank...I mean it's a list from the guys in white, so, it may not even be accurate, like, they havent seen ALL of his powers, have they?

-Lancer being like 'im not cooperating with the FEDS' until they said they could access his tax records. they already did that joke with jack, but like, its still funny. kings of tax evasion.

-tucker's aggressive third-wheeling. but gregor being super into it. gregor/tucker is the real ship here. then gregor kissing danny on both cheeks after hugging him. bi poly king gregor. (he does turn out to be a liar with a phoney accent. unsurprising, BUT THE CONCEPT OF HIM BEING GENUINE AND THEM ALL DATING IS FUN)

-THE...GUYS IN WHITE THINKING GREGOR IS DANNY PHANTOM. LMAOOO. GET HIS ASS. or,, Elliot. lmfao

-sam saying tucker is part of the package because theyre friends was super sweet <3 but also 'part of the package'...polyships are obviously the solution to these dumb jealousy/love triangle plots.

-danny crashed a whole plane. the collateral damage...

-is he....

-you know....

.... (ITS NOT GAY IF YOU'RE DOING IT TO PRETEND TO BE SOMEONE YOU'RE NOT, AND LIE TO A GIRL. RIGHT? he was getting a little too into pretending to enjoy tucker's company, and the above...c'mon, guy.)

-lmao, freakshow is in actual prison. I didn't expect a follow up, or for him to show back up! in the finale of this season, too!

-THE SICK TATTOO GHOST IS NAMED LYDIA!!! more Lore On her. freakshow seemed genuinely concerned about her. also, is she mute? I don't think she talked the first time we saw her, either. and we didn't know freakshow 'envied' ghosts, either, the first time, we just knew he was controlling them. interesting!

-...they literally stole the infinity gauntlet from marvel and called it the reality gauntlet. is that legal. what the fuck. even with the gems in the lil slots, having different powers...they had freakshow in jail, but didnt check his pockets??! hes just still in his lil outfit??? what kind of ...oh, its in amity park. yeah, all of the adults are idiots, okay, sure.

-'freakshow!' 'in the anemic flesh!' dude take some iron pills then. also, sure, the red eyes could be contacts for his aesthetic, but the whites of his eyes are yellow! does he have jaundice?! he severely needs more...like, every kind of vitamin. (this is what im worried about as freakshow attacks danny with giant robots)

-again, goth circus is a sick theme, and I love his goth train.

-oh FUCK every single person saw danny transform. on a stage. including his parents via TV. oh god. the guys in white and immediately like 'youre coming in for experiments!' SCARY. at least the crowd is willing to help him to escape...perks of now being a local celeb! even the kids at school are accepting :) this is what, the third time his family has found out? its always been an alt timeline tho. and danny fully intending to just rewrite things again instead of...I dunno, trying to roll with it this time? hes really worried his family won't accept him, huh...

-'maybe our son IS THE GHOST BOY, but its not as if our family's ghostly activities have EVER PUT YOUR FAMILIES IN DANGER' maddie. mmmmmmmmmmmm. okay.

-danny 100% prepared to run away from home because of this :( oh :( and saying his parents are 'looking for him, or a scalpel to dissect him with' ouch...

-THE GUYS IN WHITE TRYING TO ARREST A 14 YEAR OLD. fuck da feds.

-side note (another one about voice actors...) freakshow's voice actor, Jon Cryer, was lex luthor in pretty much every DC tv show, which is why I recognized his voice, because my dad loves those shows so I've seen a good bit of them without seeking them out...)

-the old man saying 'hey, i still had minutes left!' and danny saying 'you gotta watch those roaming charges!' about danny destroying the people in the diner's phones so no one could report seeing him...would kids today understand these things. can you even BUY minutes anymore...I remember my first phone being a flip phone, and the fact I always had minutes when my sister ran out super fast, because I didnt have friends calling or texting me like she did...:/

-the fentons being genuinely like 'why didnt danny trust us and tell us this, we love him :(' and JAZZ LAYING INTO THEM WITH THE 'DISSECTION/MOLECULE BY MOLECULE' LINES. LITERALLLLY. they need to apologize

-technically, lydias stronger than you! -jazz lesbianism moments! when did you even learn her name!!! but also get freakshows ass. lydia is also cooler looking. looove her design sm still.

-jazz psychoanalyzing freakshow... (also, her also having ghost envy? au where jazz is a ghost!! id like to see it)

-im glad the kids still got to go to their respective vacation things, even if they cant really stick around and enjoy them much...

-furry: confirmed. (also tucker calling her hot. tucker is a furry confirmed)

-danny being mad someone at the comic con is selling comics of him without permission, lmfao. give him his royalties!

-freakshow > thanos because hes a drama clown and does use his gauntlet to be FLASHY AND DRAMATIC.

-jazz's 'USE PYSCOLOGY' to danny about freakshow LMAOO. AND THEN IT WORKING. but, oh, freakshow's ghost form sucks. I like him as a clown better tbh. good thing danny took away his ghost powers!

-his parents hugging him and saying theyre proud :"( and saying 'of course you lied to us, we never gave you a reason not to!' and saying they were in the wrong basically for always talking about hurting ghosts aaaa :""(

-then he WIPED THEIR MEMORIES AGAIN!!! FUCK. I can understand him wiping the goverments/student bodies' memories, but why his parents?? they were being accepting!! ARGHHH. season 3 couldve been them all trying to adjust to them knowing!

-I know, on a meta level the showrunners probably wanted to just reset things to the status quo of him having a secret identity. But. We've been doing that for (2) seasons, I'd love if season 3 could be like, his parents adjusting to this and trying way harder to learn more and accept it (and the shenanigans that could come from that) and for fun, if he didn't wipe the students memories, it could be him being popular for a while, then everyone slowly realizing, oh, he's still Danny. Like. he might have ghost powers but hes Just The Same Guy instead of putting him on a pedestal (and seeing them all try and help him hide it from the giw/people who don't know!!)

-fuck they didn't even explain WHY he wiped everyone except sam, tucker and jazz's memories. he just Did It right when his parents were saying they loved/accepted him!! and sam and tucker didnt question it at all!!! HELLO??? very annoyed about this turn of events.

-anyway. onto season 3! I know its shorter than the first two seasons, and is the last season... I might just do it in 2 bursts if I can... :3c depends on the episodes' content and how much I want to say about each!

[skygirl5]

Lucifer Season 5a Thoughts

behind the jump for spoiler reasons....

First of all: I loved this (half) season. Best yet, easily.  and yeah i’m on a bit of a Lucifer high since I binged the entire thing straight through, but it was really, really really good.

When i first saw the trailer I kind of rolled my eyes at “Michael” because I thought it might be a lame twist, but it was so, so, so good. far exceeding my expectations. Tom Ellis did a PHENOMENAL job of playing both Lucifer and Michael and really that’s what totally sold me on it. It’s so good.

Couple random thoughts

first - SO GLAD that Dan knows now, though of course in typical Dan fashion he was all frustratingly annoying about it. and yeah its not totally his fault because Michael manipulated him, but when Dan/Maze/Lucifer rescued Chloe and he was all “[Lucifer] really does care about her” um yeah dude - did you forget like 5 episodes ago when you were like 100% fine with their relationship??? but i am actually looking forward to Dan/Lucifer interactions in the future since everyone is in the know.

Speaking of - Ella needs to find out ASAP!

second - Maze... Maze gets a big sigh from me this season. she’s probably my least favorite part just because i’m a bit over the whole Maze treats everyone like shit routine. I get it she’s a demon and bad things have happened to her. And yes i can see from her POV that Lucifer hiding her mother from her was a betrayal, even if Lucifer doesnt see it that way because he was keeping his word to Lilith. but like come on...this is not how you go about getting a soul.

third... the Deckerstar relationship stuff i think at this point I’d give them a B+ they still have their issues - CLEARLY - and they’re working on them...they can get a bit teenage melodrama at times, but we’ve made some good breakthroughs to this point. I did appreciate the beginning of episode 7 where they were just disgustingly in love with each other - that was adorable. 

so thoughts about Season 5 Part B...

first and foremost I hope God has a serious reckoning with Michael because he is THE WORST. what he did to Chloe was bad but what he did to Amenadiel re: Charlie was absolutely despicable. and so cruel!

I feel like Lucifer saying ILY is going to be a pretty big point of this half of the season, even though I really believe he would have said it if time hadn’t frozen, it’s problematic as he said. I really hope they explore it because I think on the surface people are like the Devil cant say ILY and i think that’s only true for people’s traditional interpretations of the devil. THIS interpretation is 100% different. There is no question about Lucifer loving Chloe. He has proved it time and time again with his actions (even if he, at the time, didn’t acknowledge those actions as being born of love). But he’s scared of saying it, committing it, because he still doesnt fully love himself. He has his own demons to work through on his way there. 

I also kind of hope Lucifer gets some redemption from his father... we know something happened to the demons in hell so that they’re no longer escaping without their King guarding them, but it’s a little unclear - and could have been manipulated by Michael. But i want a Lucifer/Dad chat where they talk about Chloe. i’d REALLY love to see one of the humans meet God bc I think that could be hilarious, but I wont hold out hope for that. but if anyone deserves it, it would be Chloe. 

I also kind of hope we get to see another random bible character or two because that’s kind of fun. (and man that is a sentence i never thought I’d say since i hated bible school as a kid! LOL!)

all in all, great season. Tom knocked it out of the park. can’t wait for more.

[calveesmain]

Problematic Rep??

You know, honestly, i hate the whole "problamatic rep" conversation, It's getting out of hand.

Hazbin is a great example of this. Take Vaggie for instance, who's character is under fire for fitting the "angry Latina" stereotype. Or Alastor, who gets shit because he's clearly a villan, and his character is "villifying Asexuality" or Angle who is a sex worker and gets shit for "fetchizing gay men" and for looking effeminate because it's "transphobic".

Honesy, It's bullshit. Nobody is villifying asexuals or latina women or gay men. And trying to say that is to throw out the entire character in favor of the character's ethnicity or sexuality. Your taking away these character's abilities to be complex, because you want the presented picture of your community to be absolutly shiny. Your the ones villifying these groups by deciding that thier ethnicity or sexuality directly correlates with thier issues. Your deciding that all an asexual character should be is asexual. That skin tone should be a characters header trait, and it's not. Stop treating LGBTQA and Ethnicity as character traits and start treating them as normal things. Nobody has to debate "problematic representation" of cishet white people because for years in the media it's been seen as the norm. People of color, LGBTQA people, these are normal people with flaws like anyone else and it's time we treat them as such.

Vaggie's lead character trait was never that she's Latina. It's that she's proud and protective. She has a short temper when it comes to keeping Charlie safe because she knows how dangerous Hell is, and she loves Charlie. Not because she's Latina. Don't confuse the two.

Alastor is a smooth talker with a charming personality and a winning smile, and enough charisma to last two lifetimes. None of that has to do with the fact that he's asexual. Sexual attraction has nothing to do with his power.

And Angle Dust. Honestly, angle is the hardest to argue for because sexuality is directly tied to his character. He's a sex worker. And he's damn good at his job. But he's alot more than that too. He's quick witted, funny, relatable, and honestly super sweet. He just doesnt know how to show it. Angle seems like the most redeemable character in the show. His work is just that. Work. So what if he's gay? That doesnt effect his character. He's still gonna so what he's gonna do.

Bottom line is, the show does a good job of /not/ tieing ethnicity and sexuality directly to characters. Noone sais "oh yah, I'm X so that's why I'm doing this" and nowhere is the corralation implyed. I wish people could just see that, but all they want to do is look woke and make a social justice case out of everything. You wanna know what the best thing for any of these communities to do now is? Its to write stoeies like this. Show real complex people who also happen to be minorities without tieing thier race/sexuality/mental illness/ ect. to the issues in the story. Those things aren't character traits to be used by the plot, they are people traits that should just. Exist. And hazbin is doing a great job of that so far.