#we just interpreted her as a lesbian

[mydarlingdearestdead]

Can I just say, the disappointment over Kate having a potentially male love interest is justified?

Yes, we understand that she could be bisexual. We're not thick (you can't be if you want to understand the lore in this show, anyway).

It's just pride month and she's lesbian coded in my opinion.

So yeah, disappointed.

[milowing]

"in the original myth medusa was a rape victim!" i'm literally banging my head against the wall

[repurposedmeatlocker]

If you had to eradicate one B&BH ship from existence, which one would it be?

UMMMMM probably Butt-Head x Daria 🫣

I guess whatever floats your boat. I'm in no position to judge in regards to fictional ships. There isn't anything inherently WRONG with it, but I just find it EXTREMELY out of character on both ends. Daria doesn't give af about Butt-Head or Beavis. At most she tolerates them or sees them doing bullshit like "woah! That's crazy guys. Get well soon!" Butt-Head is much the same. At no point in the run of the show do I see a smidge of chemistry between them that would suggest something romantic. When it comes to indulging in fan content for things like this, I tend to have a preference for sticking somewhat close to canon. I just can't see it as something that works whereas something like Butt-Head and Beavis is implied enough in the show as a joke to build off a legitimate interpretation.

[rookflower]

the horrifying implications of Cinderpelt as a pawn of Starclan- trying everything she can to unsuccessfully stop her apprentice from leaving because she's terrified of the internalised idea of "failing" her clan and her job due to her impending death, while unaware that the entire Crowpool situation is intentional by Starclan for their own benefit to initiate the Power of Three prophecy and that her death in itself is to be Leafpool's motivation to stay- the idea that the stars, the ancestors and family and friends she devoted her life to always meant for her to die young and hopeless and were willing to manipulate her emotionally for the best outcome for them- is alone a piece of her character that's infinitely more heartwrenching and tragic and interesting than "she actually had a crush on Firestar and she's sad she can't date him :((" and I'm so mad that the latter is her primary legacy instead of any interpretations of her as a character that go beyond boring forbidden romance #17 that was barely even implied to begin with

[that-one-loth-cat]

Genuinely one of my favorite things about Sabine Wren and Ezra Bridger’s relationship in canon is that it’s ambiguous. As far as I know, the only thing thats been confirmed is that they mean a lot to each other. Anything else is technically an individual interpretation or an AU.

And I love that! It means that everyone can have their own idea of what’s going on. (Those ideas are all so interesting btw 👀) I just wish we as a fandom could be kinder about it.

See them as siblings? Go ahead. They’re both their own brand of chaos and it’s marvelous. Ezra has extreme younger sibling energy (in my opinion), and I love that he and his sister grow closer as they get older instead of drifting apart.

Think they shine best when they’re just friends? That’s so valid tbh. Strong friendship bonds that don’t include romance (but have the same level of commitment and/or intensity) aren’t super common on screen, which is a shame because there’s so many interesting angles to explore. These two are ride or die for each other by the end of the show. We know that. I’ve seen people saying that this was only possible because Ezra was able to grow out of his crush and I love that way of looking at it.

Hardcore Sabezra shipper? I don’t blame you. It’s a fun ship! Watching rebels with that pair of shipping goggles on is incredibly entertaining. (And gut wrenching. Oh my goodness. The idea that she realized she loved him right before the final attack on Lothal has me on the floor every time I see it)

Right now, the “what’s their deal?” puzzle has no official right answer (other than good friends, which I think most people agree on anyway). I feel like we as a fandom are so mean to each other online over something trivial and that makes me really sad.

TLDR; I feel like Sabine and Ezra’s relationship has a lot of valid fanon interpretations because of how ambiguous their canon relationship is, and I wish we could be nicer to each other about it.

[raindrvq]

god tiktokers cannot stand when u call them out for their lack of media literacy you try and explain why a lesbian song doesn't fit a mlm ship and they get so defensive 😭 like not everything is a personal attack on u bro

[lord-squiggletits]

I know gender fuckery is the name of the game with alien robots and people are allowed to headcanon and AU whatever they want, but there are some choices to genderbend certain characters that do really fucking annoy me not gonna lie

[pegglefan69]

feeling at peace with decision that I should Probably Find a New Therapist Soon, or at least Stop Seeing This One. Also smiling tranquilly + looking forward to finally transcribing & posting a really hot passage from an essay in this leathersex book I'm reading... probably tomorrow depending on my energy levels. Maybe I don't need therapy right now maybe what I need is to talk about Weird Gay Things with Weird Gay People

[foucauldiantheory]

yeah yeah queerness has always been around but i personally wish folks would stop imposing terms on historical figures in a way that literally reduces them solely to... a queer identity?

"hildegaard von bingen was probably a lesbian bc she [wrote ecstatically about mary] [had close emotional attachments with other nuns] [drew yonic diagrams]" .....like do you guys realize the historical context of her life.... the structures of gender and power in which she lived, wrote, studied, composed, formulated her relationships to people and to divinity, built her claims to mysticism, etc? "medieval lesbian icon!!!!" is just kind of a reductive lens imo. i'm not saying that she couldn't have been what we would today call queer or a lesbian or whatever, but like this essentially centers and privileges modern constructions and concerns over accurate understanding of her in her own time.

[tellie-vision-art]

I desperately want to RP Axel/Priya with someone but I think I need to post my fic (yes it’s happening thank you for liking my art 🫡) first before asking for it 😭 I need people to understand MY VISION

I could talk about them for hours probably but I need to restrain myself and leave it for the fic but also THEIR DYNAMIC IN MY BRAIN IS IMMACULATE

[libraford]

It is possible to interact with people whom share opposing views and no this is not about pineapple on pizza. In fact, it is imperative that you learn how to be civil with some people who you may find difficult to agree with.

At work, Youngin would often tell me that the guy that trained him (Ginger) was a misogynist. I had never met Ginger, and I had very little to say on this matter. But I would ask Youngin some questions about him because I like to know the other seasonal workers a little. I ask about Ginger- first words from Youngin's mouth 'he's a misogynist.'

I asked him why he thought that. (There are many misogynists at this location, as someone that is woman-shaped I see it often, I am comparing notes.)

"We were on our way to a location and a driver was going really slowly. When he got around her he said 'fucking women drivers.' Like he was going out of his way to prove that the driver was a woman."

The last month or so, Youngin worked exclusively with me because I knew that it was a matter of time before he said something that pissed off one of the guys. He was not going to get along with people here, it just wasn't happening.

When he left, everyone wanted to know what he was like to work with. And I finally got to have a conversation with Ginger.

"I'd like to ask you something a little strange- he said that on his first day there was an issue with a driver going slowly. Can you tell me about that?"

"Oh yeah! She was going super slow and when I got around her I said 'yup- little old lady driving.' And he was like 'what's that supposed to mean?' And I just kind of dropped it, but I hear he was saying I was a misogynist over it?"

So I give Youngin some grace because he's young, he's got a social bubble that's very liberal, he has not met very many people that weren't part of that kind of scene. But he often talked about how every person here has said something that pissed him off and he seemed really surprised that I (woman-shaped queer liberal) would be okay working with all these sexist homophobes.

And I give grace to Ginger because he had no reason to think that his words would be interpreted like that. What he was saying was normal to him. This is... somewhat the culture of landscaping jobs. And its not even close to the worst thing I've heard out of these dudes mouths. (Literally had one of the dudes comment that he would like to 'motorboat' one of the pedestrians.)

It was weird for Youngin to carry that with him for the whole two months that he worked here, over a very... small comment.

Every single person I've worked with here has said something that has given me pause and I tuck it away to rant about later and then I let it go. If it gets out of hand, I talk to one of the bosses about it. I know how to contact HR. I came into this place knowing that I was going to disagree politically with most of the people that I work with because I'm coming in to a culture that is fundamentally different from my own.

If I am being frank, I find the overt bigotry somewhat better than the corporate bullshit of 'we value your contributions, but won't be granting your accommodations request out of fairness to other workers' or the glass cliff or literally being fired for my sexual orientation but phrased with 'oh you just weren't a good fit for the culture here.' I at least know what I'm getting into when I come to work. I know what not to talk about. Last time I thought I was safe to talk about something queer with my boss she blindsided me with some transphobic garbage.

Its admirable to stick up for the marginalized people in your life, but part of changing minds is knowing the time and the place to comment. I think I've changed more minds at this warehouse by being a visibly out lesbian at work than I have by making carefully crafted speeches.

That is fine. It is fine to disagree. Sometimes you have to work with racists, homophobes, and assholes. That is part of being an adult. You talk about things like... sports or TV or weather or some cool bug you saw. Finding common ground with people who are different from you in many ways is an important part of socialization and it sucks to think you have anything in common with a jackass but look- you're spending 7-ish hours with these people and at some point some of them are going to say stupid shit. You are going to say stupid shit also. I have said my fair share of stupid shit. Deal with the fact that you're all stupid shits.

And for fuck's sake, wear your hardhat.

[bemusedlybespectacled]

proposing what I'm going to call Gaylor's Razor, which is: never explain normal shit as being part of a secret message that can only be decoded by over-analysis.

"These Taylor Swift lyrics are actually coded messages saying that she's a lesbian and is forced to stay in the closet! Any lyrics that are clearly about being attracted to a man are just to throw us off the scent!" Sometimes people, like Taylor Swift, are straight and write about being straight, because they are straight.

"The fourth series of Sherlock was deliberately bad because it was actually a coded message to us fans that there is a secret fourth episode that will make Johnlock canon and will actually be good!" Sometimes writers (even experienced writers who are normally good at their jobs) will write something that's not good, because no one is perfect. They're not going to waste everyone's time and money and energy creating something terrible on purpose as part of a grand master plan.

"Tessa Virtue and Scott Moir, the Canadian Olympic ice dancers, are secretly married (with kids)! Their public relationships with people who are not each other and them repeatedly saying 'we dated as kids and now we're just friends' are just to hide the truth! Which they need to hide for some reason! Their relationship is obvious just from their physical chemistry when competing! JUST LOOK AT THIS TWO SECOND CLIP OF HIM BLINKING AT HER!" It seems counterproductive to put all that thought into hiding a relationship that doesn't need to be hidden but then also telegraph that same relationship in front of millions of people through planned choreography.

"But BB, what about times that people really are speaking in code or hiding something due to outside influences?"

If it requires huge leaps in logic, like adding all the letters in a sentence together and dividing by seventeen and that number matches the binary sequence for the color yellow so YELLOW MUST BE SIGNIFICANT, it's not a secret code.

If it requires focusing on teeny tiny details but discards huge ones, like analyzing someone's micro-expressions but handwaving away what the person is actually saying out loud with their mouth, or focusing on one specific line instead of the entire scene or song or whatever, it's not a secret code.

If both supporting and contradictory evidence are used to come to the same conclusion (ex: when Taylor says something that I interpret as gay, that means she's gay, and when she says something that I interpret as straight, that still means she's gay and just hiding it), it's not a secret code.

Trying to apply fandom meta analysis techniques to real life is a really good way of fall into conspiratorial thinking that can be easily exploited. You can totally try to predict what's going to happen in a story or choose to interpret a scene in a specific way; you can't do that in real life with real people. That way lies the kind of nonsense that leads to shit like "this image of pizza on a children's toy is actually subliminal messaging by The Cabal™ that proves that Pizzagate is real."

[tiktaalic]

gay! taylor swift just released a new song, and she's COMING. OUT. as a lesbian? yes as a lesbian! okay. which she's always been! okay alright jesus. it's called rainbow dress. hot summer june. sleepless afternoons. june. wearing my rainbow dress. is this taylor? she sounds bad. so full of pride. listen! what's hidden inside. like the vocals sound bad. jonathan van ness. jonathan van ness! okay. yeah he's gay. her best friend. i wanna have straight sex. she wants to have straight sex? at the gay pride parade. that's not so gay is it? this doesn't sound that gay. just normal sex. she's at the gay pride parade. nothing too weird. it's very confusing this song. yeah. a regular hunk with a beard. i wish there was straight pride. come on. at the gay pride parade. it's like a right wing talking point. if you guys aren't gonna listen? no no no. i'm gonna stop playing it. alright we'll listen we'll listen. we're gonna listen. she's talking about being at the gay pride parade. if this is supposed to be her song where she's coming out like why does she talk so much about straight pride? you have such a limited view of gender. oh yeah. you sniveling fuck. listen to the next verse. the second verse is gayer. i - you guys are gonna like it. who produced this? i think it was jack antonoff. i dream about your sweat. it sounds really bad. dripping down your balls. a sparkling chandelier. does she like this? she's really good at allegory. inside your shorts. julia are you okay? it's an ALLEGORY for QUEER LOVE. the balls line? i'm lost without a compass when i can't smell your balls. jesus ew that's like digusting. your balls are like a compass to my nose. what is this? pause - pause this. julia. what the fuck is this. are you guys gonna talk the whole time? i dont get it! i dont get what you're trying to do with this! where is she jt in the song. ... she's at the gay pride parade. alright yeah let's listen to it. it's fucking gay this next part? okay you're gonna love this part. i hate all vaginas. aaaaalright. it's an allegory! it's not gay at all! this was written by a maniac! no it's gay. even the one i got. dudes go down on me then they wanna kiss. this seems really like gender essentialist and hateful. that's disgusting gay shit. she has internalized homophobia. i am heterosexual. how are we supposed to interpret that? you guys are fucking assholes. yeah you know what we are being a little bit negative. i agree. she's gay. uhhh. you know. maybe she just wasn't like that outward about it with this one song.julia? julia? julia? she's gay! i'm sorry! i'm sorry! i'll kill you!

[genderkoolaid]

I feel like you would get this, seeing this comment section kinda hurt. The OP they are responding to is a non-binary trans man who was talking about feeling uncomfortable because they still feel attraction to lesbians and have felt very excluded. He’s wary around certain lesbians because they center their ideology around hating men regardless of gender identity and has faced a lot of anti-transmasculinity and transmisogyny. While most lesbians are wonderful amazing people there’s no denying that some do hold an innate hatred for men, not saying they need to like men. I fully understand lesbians and predatory cis men but there’s definitely lesbians who would date trans men. It can be scary for a trans man to come out or start transitioning because at what point do they become too masculine or too much of a man for their friends. There were even people in the comments saying the same anti-man statements who identify as a he/him nonbinary lesbian. This topic is very hard to hear for me as a closeted genderfluid person because my best friend is a man hating lesbian and I dread the day I can actually begin transitioning and she turns her back on me like these people. Queer spaces in general can be hard to occupy as a multi gendered person because of those people as well as mlm/nblm spaces that say ‘fem aligned dni’. In general I don’t think we should police labels and everyone has their own interpretation and I think labels are just a suggestion anyway but I suppose that makes sense for a genderfluid bisexual person.

These people just straight up do not understand the gender diversity that has always existed in lesbian spaces (by which I mean spaces built & catering to queer women & those seen as women).

There have always been trans men in lesbian spaces. You aren't obligated to fuck them, but they have always been there. There are pages and pages of writing out there not only by trans male dykes, but by the lesbian cis women who love them and still identify as lesbians while in relationships with them. There are trans guys at dyke bars right now as we speak having a great time.

Its not surprising to me that there are he/him NB lesbians supporting this. There are a lot of people out there who, because they don't identify As Men, mentally distance themselves from those who do despite any similarities. It's okay for THEM to be lesbians, and it's transphobic to erase THEIR lesbianism because they are Non-Men™! but once you cross that line you become the enemy. It's very "no you gyns I'm TOTALLY different than those gross tbros i promise im not a man at all and i will never want to be one so im allowed in the club!" The same people also throw multigender people under the bus. Trying to figure out your nonbinary in this environment is hellish (I speak from experience) because people pretend like they are super accepting of nonbinary people, until you realize that if you ever think of yourself as even slightly male people will start seeing you as a predatory invader trying to Force Lesbians To Date Men! Very "complex gender for me but not for thee"

Anyways. Twitter is not a good place. Anon, I hope you find better friends. Not every queer space is this hostile to us, I promise. There are people out there who genuinely work to make our community better and I hope you find them.

[meatsuit]

Is Juri's problem really idealizing Shiori in some way? The prevailing interpretation I've seen is that Juri should accept she fell for a snake so she can remove Shiori from the pedestal of her love. Incidentally Ruka also shares this opinion. I disagree and I'm here to be a contrarian about it!

A nonzero number of takes base their "Juri idealizes Shiori" conclusion on the "innocently cruel" line, the interpretation being she's percieving Shiori's personality as sweet and innocent. But that's not what the line is getting at. Juri's emphasis here is not innocence as a synonym for purity, it's innocence as a synonym for ignorance and naivety. Both Utena and Shiori are "innocent" because they are unable to anticipate the queer dynamic, the deviant lesbian desire, that Juri is operating from, and "cruel" because, in their misunderstanding, they step on Juri's toes in unintentional ways.

Even though we, the audience, know in retrospect that Shiori meant to fuck Juri up, the exact way she did it was a freak accident, and at this point in the story she has no idea that she managed to hurt her. Shiori is operating from a different understanding, one that assumes Juri's absolute conformity to and supremacy in heteronormative gender roles. Shiori's whole mission is proving her value over Juri on that axis, obviously because as a suppressed homosexual she feels insecure about her continuing obsession with Juri. She assumes "beating Juri" at attracting men will balance the scales-- render Juri's image less appealing, and hers more. And of course that would hurt Juri, who must value her success with boys so much. That lack of awareness is what Juri is referring to, and she's right here actually, about both Shiori and Utena-- they are unable to conceptualize desire for other women as a potential outcome, and in part it's because of this that they end up harming themselves and others.

Moreover the "innocently cruel" line does not imply that Juri thinks Shiori is an innocent person because, if anything, Juri does nothing but doubt Shiori throughout the series.

At no point does Juri say anything positive about Shiori's personality or their friendship. She is unable to frame her ex-bestie's existence outside of the pain she's caused her. The narrative purposefully never tells us why she fell in love with her in the first place, or what their friendship was like. We don't know why she chose Shiori specifically, and that's part of the mystique of Juri's feelings and of their relationship, that the audience will never see who Shiori is outside of Juri's heartbreak. She could have a vibrant personality, but it's thoroughly obscured by the opacity of Juri's despair, and Ohtori 's miasma. Not to mention Shiori's own internalized homophobia, compulsory heterosexuality, and chosen constructed persona-- just like a lot of other bitches trapped in Ohtori. This is what the place does, it chews up queer teenagers and doesn't spit them out so much as it arranges them neatly into a series of possible stage roles.

Juri's current image of Shiori is of a witch. It's possible she used to think of her as a princess, sure, but then she inverted the role once Shiori acted out. If anybody's idolizing anybody, it's Shiori. She is the master of rendering other people into shining beacons!

I have more thoughts forming on how Juri's "casting" of Shiori plays out through her final duel (does Shiori's mistreatment by Ruka briefly return her to her role as a princess to Juri's gallant prince-- but this proves unsustainable or undesirable, because princehood makes her too vulnerable or liable to corruption?) but they're half-baked at this time.

I do think though that Juri's "miracle" might be "making [Shiori] understand [her] feelings" literally-- not necessarily having Shiori return them (though that idea looms over her including in her understanding of what a man could do in her place, thanks to Ruka for the reminder). The miracle may be finding some way for Shiori and others to understand who Juri actually is without making herself vulnerable or diminishing the ease with which she moves through the world. She doesn't want to get stabbed with those swords of hatred. So many people don't seem to understand her, yet Juri is terrified of embodying anything other than an impenetrable image of excellence...! Girl watch out!! You're just embodying the reason why Shiori resents you in the first place!!! Those swords are coming at you no matter what!!!

[diamonds-of-the-first-water]

I Have Evolving Thoughts on Fran’s Sexuality

(god hannah dodd is so pretty)

First of all let’s thank GOD francesca is the queer sister and not…that other one.

Anyways upon my initial viewing of part 2 I definitely read Fran as bisexual and if you continue to read her as such I think that’s fine but my mind has changed on the matter.

I believe that Fran is actually a lesbian suffering from comphet.

The reason this actually started to seem likely to me is because of her wedding scene with John. The whole season I thought they seemed so taken with one another and I enjoyed their quiet dynamic. They were more than comfortable sitting in silence with one another and seemed to grow closer in that way.

I like many others assumed this meant their love was romantic, but that kiss

Would a woman who is attracted to men make this face after kissing the man she loves? I don’t think so. Some people seem to think it’s because she’s shy but it doesn’t seem like she’s even thinking about her family here. It seems like she has retreated into her own thoughts. It seems like she was disappointed. And after spending the whole season feeling nothing for any of the men she meets why wouldn’t she be. She met a man she loved and she kissed him and she didn’t feel those sparks.

Now Fran is also autistic coded so this initially affected the way I viewed her relationships as well, but all of that changes when you take into account Michaela.

Francesca immediately starts to stutter and is flustered when she sees Michaela. We have never seen Fran act this way with a man, even her husband. It wasn’t for no reason that Violet describes how she felt the first time she fell in love with Edmund and then almost immediately after Fran reacts the same way to Michaela. The butterflies, not being able to string a sentence together. This was foreshadowing.

Some people were upset because they said it erased everything Fran said about having a quiet love and that is somewhat true, but I disagree with people saying that it erases slowly built love when Polin’s whole story is about love not striking you like a bolt of lightning.

None of this is to say she can’t love John, I believe she does I just feel it is platonic, and the loss of John would hit hard even if he was her best friend. John is one of the great loves of her life but who is to say that love is romantic? Friendships are the foundation of our lives and they are equally as important as any romantic relationship. Fran met someone who understands her and is like her, that doesn’t mean she has to have romantic attraction for him.

Some of this is affected by personal bias as I am a late-blooming lesbian, but holy shit the way I relate to Fran wanting to get married just because it would mean she wouldn’t have to pursue any other relationships with men and the way she was willing to accept whoever the Queen deemed fit because she didn’t have any criteria except “is kind to me”. Fran does not seem to be searching for love as she has not felt it before. The closest she comes is with John because the two of them are so similar and I believe she thought that because she liked him so much that she must be in love with him which is just so…lesbian coded I don’t know how to explain it.

This isn’t to say bisexuality isn’t real or is “just a phase”. Ew. Gross. No. This is just the way I am interpreting the character with the information we have now. If it comes out definitely that she is bisexual then I will accept that, sapphic rep is so needed.

All in all they look so good and I can’t wait to see these queers kiss and have a romance.

Also I think that Michaela still could have fallen first. Fran just realized she was a dyke at that exact moment and her brain stopped working which is valid. But did you see the way Michaela looked at her. I KNOW A LESBIAN FALLING IN LOVE WHEN I SEE ONE.