#the thing is its not even about starco

[scottiequeen]

rewatched svtfoe because I never finished it and i wanted to know why everyone was so mad about it and now I get it

[edalynn]

Why h/ls are so obsessed with needing it to be canon is because canonicity is their only foot to stand on. It’s like how people’s main argument for Starco was that it was the inevitable endgame when Star and Marco’s characters and interactions started going downhill (and I say that as someone who likes Starco, but tends to ignore a good chunk of Star vs seasons 3 and 4). Unlike Lumity and Raeda, which had moments that came across as romantically charged even before the relationships were confirmed romantic, most, if not all, of Hunter and Willow’s interactions don’t come across as inherently romantic unless you’re either actively shipping it or regularly interact with people who are.

As we know, some people on the crew have talked about liking the ship, but that by itself only serves to make some slight ship tease look semi intentional, and ship tease can mean anything from “setting a ship up to be canon later” to “throwing the ship’s fans a bone” to “intentionally trolling the fandom.” Only Dana, and Dana specifically, confirming that yes, the relationship between them was meant to be romantic, would actually make the scenes Hunter and Willow share actually seem inherently romantic in hindsight. And I think the fact that she more or less refuses to specify is a sign that no, they weren’t meant to be a couple, but she doesn’t want to explicitly deny it because she doesn’t want to disappoint its fans/discourage fans from having their fun. At least, that’s my two cents.

Yeah, you very cohesively put down into words how I feel about it as well as of late, but haven't had the brain power to type out recently. It's literally the only thing their ship has- it has no definite romantic interactions, no verbal confirmation, no kiss, nothing interaction wise that either of them haven't had with another friend already. They have no chemistry, barely have any interactions at all, and in my honest opinion, the majority of their interactions throughout the whole series lean more negative or cynical aside from like. The second to last episode of the whole series. So yeah, getting Dana to confirm the ship is "canon" would be literally all they have.

[dorkynerd23]

Honestly, this is something that's been on my mind for a while now almost ever since about episode 3 of the show, but now with the recent episode out, I honestly fear for the show's future and how people could end up viewing it, at least when it comes to its love triangle. So, it seems the show is now definitely hinting at a love triangle (Which is something some fans have hinted at beforehand, but it seems common now) especially after the events of episode 5, and that does worry me when it comes to MD..because I really don't want the show to be ruined by romance and shipping, and I especially don't want shipping to overshadowed the show and the stuff we're supposed to be focusing on.

I've never been a fan of love triangles and it's a trope that has honestly annoyed me and something I've never been a fan of. I'm sure everything will be okay and Liam knows what he's doing, but I'm worried about how it'll be handled and how people may view the show, I mean I remember back when Episode 4 was released, some on Twitter admitted to wanting to leave and stop watching the show because of Nuzi being hinted at and the many scenes with the two or there was just more shipping wars happening which made the fandom more toxic and such a mess.

But anyways, I know it sounds like I'm complaining and worrying too much but as I've said this is an issue I've been fearing for the show and it's future for quite some time now, I'm worried because of how shipping has ruined other shows in the past and dragged them down and can often be frustrating and can take away from the elements from what we should be focusing on or just end up taking over the show completely. There are many examples I can name when it comes to shipping taking over a show like Regular Show, Miraculous Ladybug, Legend Of Korra and TDI, but the main one that's a huge example of this and what most people talk on when it comes to this topic is Star Vs/Star Vs The Forces Of Evil. That show started out so well and good in the beginning and had good elements in it from its characters, and world-building and it just had so much potential and could've even been up there as one of the best cartoons, maybe on the Gravity falls level...but sadly, things took a huge turn sometime after S2 and they really started to drag things down with not only other things that were causing the show to go downhill, but it's shipping especially and it felt like a fanfic. I mean seriously, the shipping wars for Star Vs were the most toxic and brutal l've ever seen for a show and in the end, I don't think anybody was happy. I've even seen Starco fans feel unsatisfied for how their relationship was handled and forced at the end and let's not forget the show had one of the most underwhelming and rushed finales I've seen for a show. To this day, People still shit talk and rant on how horrible the show was handled in the end and how forced it's romance was, it still saddens me for how Star Vs was done because the show did have potential and could've been better!

Now let me just say that I've got nothing against shipping and see no harm in participating in it (Just as long as it isn't problematic)(I'm a shipper myself and have a love and adornment towards shipping, especially when it comes to Oc's + Oc X Canon) and finding investment and wanting to see certain characters together and be something more and I've seen some people state that the love triangle is common in Liam's work and it's not something new, so maybe I'm just missing something, I didn't know much about Liam and what he's done before he did MD.

But overall, I'm just worried and fear that this love triangle between N, V, and Uzi could end up pushing people away from the show and dragging things out and taking away from what we should be focusing on in the series. I mean, some are already losing hope for the show for other reasons and the shipping wars in the Murder Drones fandom are already toxic and out of control, so that doesn't help. I just fear for how this will be handled because most love triangles I've seen in media are handled and done poorly and terribly, and just end up causing unnecessary drama and same goes for other romances I've seen.

Again, this is only MY OPINION and something I wanted to discuss about, this isn't me trying to hate and shit on the show or the crew, I've adored and love Murder Drones since the Pilot and the show has kept me more and more invested and interested with its story and characters and it's honestly a comfort show for me, I truly love MD very much, I'm a huge fan of the show and consider it not only as one of my favorite shows, but also one of my favorite webseries. But I do wanna admit that the show is flawed and isn't perfect and some things can improve in the future, this post was just me wanting to give my thoughts on this situation (I've seen some fans also give their thoughts and concerns for the show when it comes to the romance) and none of you have to agree with me. You can disagree and give your own thoughts and opinions, but please try to be respectful in the comments though and don't be hateful and rude to each other, please. ♥️

[nautiscarader]

Happy Birthday!!!, as for the ship and prompt, Starco 98. Risky, unprotected sex

Thanks! Hope you'll enjoy this.

Marco swallowed loudly, unable to utter a single word, as his brain was still trying to process the alluring sight in front of him.

He recognised the dress Star was wearing - the same red one she had during the Blood Moon Ball - but judging from the way she lifted its hem,it was the only thing she was wearing, perhaps aside from her seductive smile.

The princess uncrossed her legs, giving Marco another view at her bare pussy, glimmering in the candlelight from droplets of her heat oozing from it.

"Evening, Marco…", she whispered in low, seductive voice,as she stretched on his bed, "Care to join me?"

Marco was about to reply,when Star raised her hand and continued.

"But there is a catch. We have never been fully joined by the Blood Moon… so tonight… no condoms, no pills, no spells…"

She knew how important safety was for him - after all, they might have crossed the barrier of adulthood, but just barely…

"I mean, if-if you're not okay with that, I can-MMPH!"

It only took Marco a second to join his girlfriend, their lips founding each other in passionate, hungry kiss,while their hands dealt with pesky clothes that separated their bodies from each other.

Star wished Marco would just rip her dress off, but sensing that,he took an even more time sliding it off, first by visiting her pussy to lap some of those tasty droplets of desire.

Star moaned, her legs convulsing as his tongue worshipped her pussy, gathering more and more of her welcome drink, until the princess demanded the foreplay was over,and unceremoniously grabbed him by his scruff and lifted him over her.

For a long while, the two stared at each other, observing the glimmers of light twinkling in their eyes, until their desires have taken over their minds.

Star jumped Marco at once, sliding onto his cock, her arms and legs automatically locking behind his back, while he performed first of many gentle thrusts, each making her hearts on her cheeks pulse with light.

The young couple remained in this sensual position, Marco's hands trailing her back,from here ass to her delicate wings, sending more sensations across her shivering and writhing body.

And as if that wasn't enough, his lips peppered her breasts with butterfly kisses, causing Star to properly push his head against her bosom, while she slammed herself onto his cock, again and again, rediscovering every ridge and vein of his length every time.

She was losing her mind, especially knowing what was about to happen, and with that, she decided to tease him some more.

"Are you gonna burst? Flood my bare pussy with your load? It has been a while, I bet you've been saving up…"

Marco replied with a loud grunt, words losing their form as his climax came closer and closer.

"I bet you've been dreaming about this… taking the risk of knocking a princess up… Are you hoping for a boy? A girl or bo-"

"STAR!"

Marco's mighty roar filled the room at the same time as he came, his tight grip on her waist ensuring his final slam pushed the tip of his cock as far as possible, making fountain of his cum erupt against the entrance to her womb.

The young couple collapsed, their joined bodies writhing and quaking with each spasm of Marco's hips,sending more of his virility up her core, Stars heart cheeks becoming redder and redder…

Neither of the two knew how long did it take for the two to recover from their joined climax, but hundreds of kisses later, Star was the one to utter first words.

"Hey there, hot stuff", she joked, shying away, "So, uh, listen, I know this-this was a little unexpected, so-so if you want, I can cast a spell, safe kid…"

"Safe kid?", Marco's quizzical tone gathered Star's attention. "I am not a safe kid, I am… a bad boy."

Star only had a moment to gasp before her legs were lifted up and her pussy was filled again, as Marco put her into a fierce mating press, determined to turn a possibility into certainty.

[kprs4ever]

I got another, have you ever felt bothersome with the content of the Owl House overlooking Star vs sometimes?

I love the show, but I once faced the content of how some people go overboard with that series

Like exploring world building, a plot more structure, heck some on Twitter even stated that Starco is toxic while Lumity is a better example of a relationship.

Did you ever find a way to deal with it?

I think......hmm.......I think one reason that The Owl House is sometimes overshadowing Star Vs. is because for some people, Star Vs. didn't play out the way some wanted it to. Some people are divided over the finale and even the serious turn the show started to take in the very beginning.

I mean, the Owl House has done some things that are historic, like Lumity and all that. And Disney shows usually aren't like The Owl House with its themes and plots. But since some things with Star Vs. didn't play out like some wanted, it brought people over to the show.

I mean, I had no problem with how Star Vs. played out! In fact, I wanted it to keep going! I loved how it dove deep into Mewman history and how a lot of the episodes were intense! It's why I wrote my fanfic! I wanted to dive even deeper into it. And you'll see how much deeper the history and lore will go when I continue Ancestral Nightfall. 😉

But some people wanted it to keep that theme of silliness and fun instead of the deep dive into magic and wars and the many ships that maybe started a bit of a battle between fans (although Starco was planned since the very beginning but I digress 😂). People have their preferences. And that's okay!

So I will say this. It's never bothered me that the Owl House is getting the attention it's getting! I feel that all animation deserves a big spotlight! Star Vs got it along with other shows I love! So I'm not sour about it at all! I'm glad they're getting recognition! Animation is a medium that should always get praise because it really shows talent among artists. And as a fellow artist, I'm okay with it 😊

[fallen-gravity]

Did you like Star Vs. before it became a shipping circle jerk?

yes 🥺 early svtfoe my beloved, seasons one and 2a are always gonna have a special place in my heart

I think the thing that separates me from a good number of fans though is that I'm not even upset about starco becoming canon at the end of the show? I think I kind of always assumed that's the way things were going to be. I took issue with how rushed they had to make it since they were never given the season five they originally wanted to wrap up the show, but in terms of Star and Marco becoming a romantic couple, I never had an issue with that in itself. I encouraged it, as a matter of fact!

What I didn't like was when the shipping and the will-they-won't-they completely dominated the overarching plot of the show. It was cute when they were friends with the beginnings of crushes on each other in late season one, but when they were still shoehorning things in even after Star and Marco were in relationships with other people that's when it started to get stale.

Another post I saw recently put this into better words, but like, the writing painted Star getting back together with Tom as a bad thing was...kind of counterintuitive. And like, I was pretty neutral on that, but the fact that the show went through the effort of showing Tom working towards becoming a better episode over the course of multiple episodes and Star recognizing that and finding that old spark coming back only to be like "this is bad actually and you want them to break up soooo bad. you want them to break up" felt...backwards. The same goes for Marco and Jackie. You spend all of season one rooting for him to build up the confidence to ask her out, and then when he does, you're supposed to start rooting for them to break up, too. I'm disregarding the Blood Moon Curse because a) I secretly enjoyed that plotline and b) it's called a curse and was never meant to be seen as a good thing; that's why they tried to break it late into season four.

Star Vs was a really fun show!! I really loved the dynamic between the characters and the art style was so fun. But it really lost its spark when it stopped focusing on strengthening the plot and more on strengthening the ship wars both in and out of the show's universe

[ljf613]

How bout some Star Vs: 21, 22, 25

21. part of canon you think is overhyped I don't know if this qualifies, but I think people make a little too much of the whole "Princess Turdina" bit, and try to act like it's super woke or progressive or means that Marco is canonically genderfluid or whatever. Crossdressing for disguise is nothing new-- it's an ancient trope that is generally meant to be humorous and not intended to be taken particularly seriously.

22. your favorite part of canon that everyone else ignores I haven't been in the fandom long enough to know what parts of canon do or don't get attention, but I think one of my favorite little underrated moments is in "Hungry Larry" (S2:E11A):

It's a really sweet, vulnerable moment from a character who's generally used more for comic relief, and I love it when Dads get to be Dads. There's a lot more that could be said here about how both of the Diaz parents really center their lives around their home and family and how that's shaped Marco's personality, goals, and worldview, but I'll have to expound on all that in some later post.

25. common fandom complaint that you're sick of hearing The fact that Starco antis actually exist is objectively hilarious and I'm still not convinced the whole thing isn't some elaborate hoax. And I'm not talking about people who had problems with the way Star and Marco's relationship developed over the course of the story. (Personally, I thought it was some of the best and most realistic relationship development I've ever seen in a TV show and just wish they'd had more time as an on-screen couple, but to each their own.) I'm talking about the antis who hate the fact that this ship even exists, insist that Star and Marco's relationship should have been written as completely platonic, and act like the two of them getting together was some kind of betrayal of the entire show and its fanbase. Look, I get that not everyone is going to like the same ships I do, and I'm all for ship and let ship. But it has been blatantly obvious since Day 1 exactly where this story was going. How in the multiverse do you watch "That Show About Those Two Best Friends Who Go On Wacky Adventures and Also Fall in Love With Each Other" for four entire seasons and come away from it saying "I can't believe Those Two Best Friends Who Go On Wacky Adventures actually Fell in Love With Each Other"? Dude. My guy. That is literally the exact premise of this show. That's the story that's being told here. If you weren't interested in seeing that, why are you even watching? This is exactly like going to the movie theatre to watch a romcom and then complaining that it wasn't a thriller. Or getting annoyed that your local pizza parlor doesn't serve steak.

Send me an ask that may incite violence.

[ngame989]

Goodbye (part 3)

Gonna make a separate post instead of reblogging this time but announcement: I'm fully repurposing this blog for my current interests now. The birdsite is slowly imploding and FF14 has some active tumblr presence that I've already begun to follow and I'm too lazy to make a new blog. Still lots of cute dorks in love, rest assured, just different ones now! Anyway before I fully ramp up posting/reblogging other stuff I figured I'd make a quick update to my rec list.

I was already a bit sus on The Dragon Prince with its graphic novel and I guess that was founded. The first 3 seasons are pretty strong as a package deal of fun and cute character/relationship arcs, but I guess they got bored of that, since the last season basically just decided to stop doing all of the things I liked about it before. Didn't even make it past episode 1 of season 4, maybe I'll catch back up eventually, but for now I'll rescind my recommendation unless you stop after S3.

Still haven't watched The Owl House myself but I'm aware that it didn't actually do any of the usual stupid bullshit its flavor of cartoon tend to with romance, Good For Them!

Generally have just gotten into a bunch of slice of life yuri manga. They definitely tend to settle in the romance tropes I prefer more - friends to lovers that doesn't just stop at the "lovers" part, comfy and cute overall but with enough character arcs to keep it interesting, etc.

In an odd change of pace for me I've actually gotten really into a ship for a work not focused on romance at all, that being Final Fantasy XIV, but it's so obviously sapphic that it just kind of speaks for itself. Plus I'd rather have nothing explicit than something explicitly bad. Stay if you're interested in that, leave if you're not, I'm just here to post cute shit now.

[jess-the-vampire]

It depends who you ask, some feel it was just toxic, others felt it was semi abusive.

Like there were others i knew personally who felt super uncomfortable with the situation because it gave them flashbacks to their own relationships.

Since tom was purposely left out of things , got left behind on purpose, nagged for things such as just whistling in an elevator, had a lot of his own feelings basically ignored or dismissed quite a few times, star always choosing marco over most of their own events instead despite being insecure about not being like marco, hitting him and asking him to translate something out of frustration....ect ect.

Getting mad about tom not telling HER he knew she kissed marco while they were dating, and then trying to LEAVE when confronted about it.

If we went through everything we might be here all day but yeahhhhhhh .

It never gets to an extremely serious level, but its still pretty uncomfortable and for others it did feel triggering.

And in the end, star never apologizes to tom for anything, it genuinely feels like tom didn't really think star treated him that badly or he blamed himself more down the line then he did star because its not addressed as even being the reason they split.

He even tells marco to get with her pretty much immediately after they split.

Like I think they try to make star look less bad by making it like its all unintentional, but I dunno man, it gets to a point where even that doesn't work for everything she does.

And star never has like, a proper arc that addresses her behavior here, they go right into dating someone else and don't attempt to really fix her behavior in how she treated her last partner.

Like they get together, literally the next day, comes off like she never cared about tom at all given star's lines about how she's always loved marco and everything while tom was left forgotten in another dimension.

Tom has his flaws in the relationship, but he's very aware of when he screws up and always apologizes and works to do better, this never happens with star so the relationship comes off as tom being frequently strung along and put down by his gf and ends with him essentially treating it as if the problems were because of him and not because of star herself since he's quick to claim starco would be perfect, as if dating marco would erase all of star's issues in them dating.

I think even if you're not someone who found it to be abusive like others did, it was still pretty hard to watch.

I don't know if you got asked this, but what are your opinions on Janna? Love her or hate her?

i’ve always been mixed on janna as a character

i think she can be very funny and i like that she can be useful with her own knowledge on magic and tricks, so she can do things the rest of the cast can’t.

my biggest issue with her character, is she doesn’t age....well

mostly because so much of her humor half the time, relies on basically assaulting, stalking, and generally being uncomfortable to marco.

like had tom been doing the stuff she does, i don’t think it’d be brushed off how it is.

when tom got called out for stepping over boundaries when it came to star, he had a whole arc about not doing this kinda thing because it was wrong and not ok and hurtful to others.

But Janna? Nah, you see, doing stuff to hurt and torture marco is funny, a scene where she actively slaps his rear and freaks him out is funny.

Lest i remind you all, the fandom crackships her...with tom, the guy who just got out of an abusive relationship and now the fandom and daron, for some reason, are now saying should get together.

Look, marco is a dick in later seasons, doesn’t make this less uncomfortable and weird.

like had they stuck to other aspects of janna’s character, like her nonchalant attitude to weird things, her troublemaking, how she eggs star on to do wild and crazy things, i’d come out of the show with a better opinion of her overall.

but janna has always sorta been a character i think aged a bit like milk even around the time she was getting this bad and i’m kinda surprised no one on the team ever sorta saw this as a bit of an issue with her, but then again, they also saw no issue with the 30 year old marco thing so-

i think it’s fair to say i like parts of janna’s character, and some of her messing with marco, when it was more playful was not that bad,  but they turned it up to 11 and then play it entirely for laughs and with people becoming more and more aware this kinda treatment towards men in cartoons being entirely played as funny is kinda gross is yeahhhhhh

[slashingdisneypasta]

Chris McLean x Reader || Drabble

Plot: Established relationship!* Chris has a nightmare about you leaving him and and in his sleep, he's a lot sweeter.

Warnings: Swearing?

~~~

The almost stifling heat against your arm and chest suddenly and the fidgeting beside you, slowly, and totally unwelcomely, drags you into consciousness. Before you dare to go and open your eyes though, the final straw in the process of being awoken, you blindly try to push the annoyance - Chris. Its always Chris, - away from you. Its too hot to be this close Chrissss- get the frick frack paddywack back to your side of the bed.

He just nudges your hands away, whining 'no' slightly, and setting himself up even more snuggly against you- an arm wrapped over your waist and keeping you practically under him as he buries his face in your neck. Groaning reverently, deeply from the depths of your heart, you crack your eyes open to a face full of Chris's damn hair and deeply roll your eyes. "Yuck," Whining, you brush a hand through the ebony mess, getting it away from your mouth, then poke him again. In the neck. "Chris." You try again, this time poking a finger into his cheek- he doesn't budge, just frowns deeply and groans at you. "Chrisssss. Get off me." You whisper, trying to move him off you by pushing at his arm but his grip just tightens, keeping you close to him.

"Mmmm... no... " He whines, petulantly. Like a child, who refuses to put away his toys and go to bed. You sigh, fully awake now and just glare at the ceiling for a moment, thinking off with his head.

What? The air is hot, the hour is late, and you're no longer dreaming of Star Vs the Forces of Evil and Starco becoming canon.

Because of CHRIS!

So yes. Off with his head- despite how fond of it you really are when you aren't you know, in unpleasant situations like this.

"Y/N... (Annoying cutsie nickname like Samantha-Bear or Connor-Boy)... don't leave... I'll be better... I wont... wont catapult the teenagers... or flush them down the giant toilet... "

You freeze, realising he's sleep-talking, gaze slowly slipping from the ceiling to the top of his head.

"... Despite how much it costs and the ratings... " Then sigh, rolling your eyes. Hell.

Should you wake him up? Or is that bad? What kind of dream is he having?- I mean, apart from it being him grovelling - and lying, - to you, obviously. This is a familiar script. Sometimes, when he's just been too much... and you're sick of it; his horribleness for the sake of his damn show, and fame... you occasionally... threaten to leave him. And these are the kind of things he says, to make you stay. He says sorry, and that he'll do better- that he'll try, for you! Just please don't leave me, baby. I love you.

He's good at it, you'll admit. Because as of so far, you have not actually gone through with your threats.

But he also never goes through with his promises.

Figures.

"Yeah, yeah." You whisper back, as if he were listening and roll your eyes as he starts to press little kisses to your neck. "I promise I wont leave- unless you continue to make this bed a furnace and overcook me. Come on, get off me."

"NooooOOoooOooo," He whines, rubbing his face - and the STUBBLE, - into your neck, face twisted in pain. "I need you... love you... "

Sighing once again, you resign yourself to a roasted lifestyle and snuggle down deeper into the bed, facing him now and pinching the front of his shirt. "Love you too..."

"Fricken... wouldn't know what to do... without... you... "

Your eyes gently flutter closed. He's never said that to you before, awake. Chris likes to make out like he would be perfectly fine without you- but you both know you'd both be wrecks if you actually broke up. He's a self-absorbed, slightly maniacal asshat, but he's your self absorbed, slightly maniacal asshat. And you're a cold-hearted dog- but you're his cold-hearted dog.

Its nice to hear. In fact it kind of makes you feel all gooey inside, even as the very air around you both threatens to boil you alive. A little smile fights its way to your lips and your nose scrunches up.

He tucks you under his chin against his chest - clad in the most Chris fucking McLean style pyjamas ever, being gaudy purple ones made of silk, - and curls around you totally, like a very clingy monkey- a way he'll only cuddle you when he's deeply asleep. Or whiny.

Now is both those instances.

"Promise... me... you'll marry me someday... " Your heart starts to beat harder in your chest, eyes opening wide. Marry him!? Chris has never mentioned marriage to you before! I mean, you thought... yeah... it was probably coming... seeing as you had been together (Albeit turbulently) for years... but the word had never left either his lips or yours. "Be... Y/N McLean... "

"Ah!" A yelp escapes you at that one - as you're freaking out, in total frazzlement, - , "Oh- " and before he can say anything else remotely like that you reach up and tap his face a few times- firmly enough to wake him up.

An annoyed groan escapes him, a serious emotional turn from the soft, gooiness of before as his face twists into a scowl and blinks his eyes open- then takes an arm away from you to yank the eye mask away from his face in order to look down at you. Then groans and rubs his eyes. "Y/N?" No hint of sleep is left in his voice, even if its groggy. Its not like before, for sure. Its a relief... even if the words before weren't entirely unpleasant. "... What's happening? Is there a fire? You know I need my beauty sleep for the cameras!"

"Oh uhhhh, I just thought I heard something."

"Well unless its Beyoncé, here to award me another Gemmy, then I'm not interested! Go back to sleep. And- why are we snuggling? Its like 90 degrees outside!"

And yet- he doesn't move to get away from you at all. As a matter of fact, he returns his arm to its place around your waist; It makes you feel just as gooey on the inside as his words did earlier.

"Oh this was you." He furrows his brows at you, and you nod up at him in the dark "Yep. In your sleep." An evil grin slips across your lips, and you tilt your head to the side. "... In fact, you were talking, too. Said some pretty interesting stuff, McLean. Wanna fill me in on what you were dreaming about?"

For a moment he doesn't move, just frowns deeper as he thinks and stares right back down at you... Then suddenly his gaze moves to the side, and he chews the inside of his cheek uncomfortable. "Ahhh... yeah, I don't remember... " Then he looks sternly at you again, serious as the plague to your total amusement. "Why, what did I say?"

A Cheshire smile slips across your lips. "Don't worry about it." Then you slip out of the bed and stalk out of the bedroom towards the kitchen, Chris scrambling after you after a moment. "Nothin' important!"

"Get back here!- "

"You want ice cream?" You glance over your shoulder at him following you in determination. Oh Chris. "'No-Dairy Day' hasn't officially started, yet."

"Yes, I do. But this conversation is not over, you hear that!? Not over!"

Hm. That's what he thinks.

[sophfandoms53]

4 seasons and a lot of cringing later, I have finished stvfoe. Season 1 and 2 were pretty good. Season 3 was messy, but they pulled it together. Season 4 OK THEY COMPLETELY FUCKED UP THE ROMANTIC SUBPLOT but the magic plot is going ok OH GOD NO. WHY. DID WE REALLY NEED CLEAVED? AT ALL???

Overall, I knew it was gonna end bad, but HOW DO YOU FUCK UP THAT BAD-

(Tom, Janna, Eclipsa, and a select few other characters will forever be great tho)

NO LITERALLY THIS IS SUCH A GOOD SUMMARY OF SVTFOE’S FOUR SEASONS

Seasons 1 and 2 were so top tier and then seasons 3 and 4 were just a mess with their only saving graces being Tom’s redemption, Eclipsa being absolutely delightful, and Janna just being Janna.

The thing that sucks about starco and how they ended up getting together is not only did they wait until the ending of the show to do that but they crashed through so many shipping hurdles just to get to a ship we all knew was endgame during season one, it’s ridiculous. You can tell there were people on the Star VS crew who were biased for one ship over another and it showed through how we had to watch 3 couples get together and break up just for the inevitable Starco to happen.

The fact they spent so much of seasons 3 and 4 on the romantic subplot over its story to appease shippers is embarrassing.

Oh and don’t even get me started on how they fucked up Moon’s character in season 4 and how anticlimactic Mina was as an endgame villain. There was so much lore and backstory about Toffee and his reptilian army, LIKE HIS FUCKING LEADER SETH????, but they chose MINA of all people to be the final seasons villain I-

I just can’t with how many bad decisions this show made.

If you want a full analysis of how badly the show went downhill that’s not only incredibly well done but extremely respectful, I recommend this video by Blue Order on YouTube:

(Tumblr is being a butt and won’t let me link it so here’s the title and it’s thumbnail lmao)

Even though it’s long, he does a really good job with explaining how the shows poor writing decisions affected the show in the long run and what other choices they could’ve made to make their show better.

I’ve lost count how many times I’ve rewatched this because it’s genuinely a rlly well made video.

[unnamedcrane]

Okay hi hello last week i finished svtfoe

Its rant time 👀

I didn't expect to write out my thoughts after each season anywhere but here we are i guess and now i can finally say i watched svtfoe in full!

So season 4

It was mid.

Okay theres more to that obviously, if it was just a season in the middle of the series it would be fine I enjoyed quite a few episodes but when it all comes together its just a complete mess

For me season 3 was the best and after such strong season this was just a disappointment honestly. I was wondering if Star lost her powers completely or what, so seeing her s4e01 using her magic completely fine without a wand was disappointing, like no learning no problems no nothing like i love you star but how tf did you learn that just outta nowhere

Other thing that seems to be completely forgotten is u know descendants of our favorite mc-pie folk? Like i have no problem with that what i have problem with is River. For whole 2 or more episodes he hates on pie folk so much but when he finds out his wife actually comes from pie folk he immediately forgets about that. Like im glad their relationship is okay dont get me wrong but with him being so prejudiced and hateful one minute and then just completely ignoring that is just ooc imo.

There's so much filler or irrelevant stuff happening that I had to look back at list of episodes to remind myself what was even happening

I liked Star being canonically attracted to women in episode I completely forgot about (ransomgram) so thats sth I guess

I really really enjoyed Stars and Toms relationship, maybe its my preference for Tomstar instead of Starco but I just find them so much nicer together. Despite that I also dont mind their eventual break up. I dont like that its so plainly just for Starco purposes its annoying but besides that I would love if their break up did lead up to development for them both. I feel like Tom was completely disregarded at the end of the season and it just bothered me a lot. I love how he grew throughout the series and I grew to like him a lot more than I initially did (which u know I liked him from the beginning anyway) and I love how much he cared for Star. It would be great if after the break up Star also could learn and like she wanted to try to find out who she is outside being "magical princess" that would be so great to see! but u know instead we got Starco :|

and now for Marco. I liked what he had going on w Kelly I thought it was cute u know? being breakup buddies thats adorable! and I didnt even mind blood moon curse I think it would be an okay closure for Starco and even then I feel like Marco and Star would be great platonic soulmates, instead of going w u know expected romance and stuff. Cause sure they have a strong bond I just feel like the romance part is bs, especially the confession scene I am sorry it was so bad. I dont mind Starco mind you but if I was keeping up w it at the time and 4 seasons of waiting led up to that I would be angry. I still am despite basically binging it, its just so weak I cant. The whole "I liked you from the start" no you didnt u liked Jackie (also good on her for getting french gf what a girlboss) and Star had a crush on Oskar and probably some other boys idk. It only got weird when Star started to have feelings for Marco while he was still obviously into Jackie, either way it was bad. Actually just now I read the synopsis the time they got feelings for each other was apparently blood moon ball? what? Star was charmed before she realized its Marco okay? and Marco idk didnt trust Tom and wanted to help Star which valid Tom had issues in s1 dskjds

I love Eclipsa so much I think she is my favorite character honestly. and her relationship w Globgor is just everything? Theyre so perfect and sweet and great w each other I want to have what they have ;-; She was so ready to do anything for him and vice versa and while reading some comments I kinda figured out how it feels so dear to me. Ik its interaccial or interspecies relationship so the metaphor isnt perfect but it feels so inherently queer. While being queer myself just seeing them care so much for each other while being ostracized by everyone around hits a bit close to home haha but yeah its amazing. and both of them separately are great too. While ik we only got few minutes of Globgor actually on screen I just liked him every second (and also it was funny to realize the guy from Jane the virgin dubs him pfpfpf) and Eclipsa is amazing too doing everything just to keep her family safe it was great.

okay few more things

I hate how Marco was literally stabbed but it didnt mean shit like at all. Its Stars wand all over again and it bothers me. Like sure it would suck if he died but also dont stab him then?

And I think I dont have to say this but ending is so bad. Like yeah ig the magic dimension when poofing out of existence could connect mewni and earth together but why only earth and mewni and also how did Star and Marco escape magic dimension??? again no consequences to their actions or not really anyway smh

and I havent even touched on magic or world building but thats gonna be another long post tee hee

Either overall I liked svtfoe quite a lot despite its problems and now I just wanna make cosplays and stuff haha

[sometipsygnostalgic]

What are your thoughts on Star V.S The Forces Of Evil?

I used to follow this show back when it was airing. I had a friend who was absolutely obsessed with StarCo.

Said friend just became super depressed at the finale and stopped talking to us because of it.

Everyone knows the finale of this show is a bit of a dumpster fire. However, the most popular vloggers - such as Blue Order - say that ships like TomStar were "clearly being built up to". This is wrong. The show was clearly baiting StarCo the whole time. It would have impressed me if it actually subverted StarCo but alas we need our series-long-slow-burn-to-finale-kiss :/

i guess they didnt actually kiss in the finale they kissed before then on top of some pigs, which is... better? but

imagine an au where there were a couple for like an entire season or two and we got to see them be a pair ala finn x flame princess, which imo is still one of the best teen relationships ever portrayed on television, realistically awkward and honest and flawed.

i think it was starco which cemented my idea that series finale pairings are bland hetero bullshit. though harry potter movie 8 certainly helped.

I think the point where the fatigue REALLY hit is when they were acting like Tom and Star would get together, then there was Marco and Kelly, and suddenly Marco and Kelly brOKE UP OFFSCREEN and Kelly was written out of the show entirely during the Cleave. Stuck in her own universe. Holy shit. Tom was as well, if I recall? I can't remember where he ended up.

anyway enough about shipping, time for the actual plot.

the first season is a bit agonizing. it has its fun moments but it's mid to low tier. it's commonly agreed that the show peaks at the Toffee storyline, and I totally agree here, there's enough going on emotionally - especially with poor Moon, and when Marco punches Toffee - while still being small scale enough to feel personal. i am also SUPER crazy for the use of dark magic in these early seasons, like the Whispering Spell, or the curse that Eclipsa taught Moon. It was nice that you have these magical girls but not all their magic is light, some of it is very grim.

i found Eclipsa's storyline mostly interesting, but largely wasted potential. I didn't feel like Eclipsa becoming queen was a natural conclusion, since she doesn't WANT to be queen. She wants to run away with her monster husband! To make a comparison, in Adventure Time, an AU in the comics has Marceline become a Queen alongside Bubblegum, but the show itself heavily implies Bubblegum eventually steps down to live her best life with Marceline, and I think the latter is far more fitting. Eclipsa is even closer to Marceline in this regard! I still think Star was a more fitting Queen, even if Eclipsa was the rightful heir, and I was sure season 4 was building to her just giving the throne to Star (before it was eventually destroyed... or not? i don't know).

The whole stuff with Mina in the final season... the thing is, the story wanted us to be invested in the Monsters vs Mewmans war, but spent absolutely no time with any relatable/likable monsters. It just assumed we would automatically be invested in the Right Thing, because Star is, but Star is just an aristocratic ally. She's great and all, and I think the arc she goes through is genuinely good as a maturity storyline, but Star agonizing over all the monsters being discriminated or leaving, it was not fun. The Mewmans themselves were so annoying and agonizingly narrowminded anyway, it’s not like this was a conflict we cared about. 

What I found somewhat ballsy, politically interesting even, was the episode with Moon and the Mewmans who had either been displaced after Eclipsa gave the monsters back their homes, or who left just because they felt uncomfortable with monsters being around. The episode makes it very clear that the Mewmans are largely bigoted assholes, but they're also people, and some of the reparations under Eclipsa actually hurt them. Like a family whose home they had for generations got returned. It's not the fault of the Monsters, it's the fault of Solaris and the kingdom leadership for invading the monster homes and putting Mewmans into it, rather than working on solving the problems within her own kingdom.

As a result, even though Moon has not made any political statements against Eclipsa, she finds herself surrounded by a bubble of displaced or agitated Mewmans who do not want to integrate with monsters, and as the former Queen, she feels it is her responsibility to look out for these idiots. But what makes her different from Star is that Moon herself has a hatred of monsters, especially because of what Toffee did to her family ( yet it turns out Toffee only existed BECAUSE of her family). So Moon hasn't decided what she thinks is right, and has a pseudo nation forming around her, while Star has already set her mind on doing the right thing but is losing a lot of allies over it. This episode made the world feel more alive to me!

Unfortunately the way this arc was concluded was aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. Namely, whatever the fuck Moon did with bringing the Solaris soldiers to life (WHY??? WHY WOULD SHE EVER DO THAT? SHE WOULD NEVER RISK STAR GETTING KILLED), versus the whole "destruction of magic" (WHAT), and finally the Cleave????????????

Because fusing the two worlds together is clearly the best solution, anyway don't mind that we literally destroyed all magic for some reason, only the magical beings you dont care about died or got debiliated (which makes no sense but whatever).

Overall a decent show mired by romance nonsense and by a misguided attempt at politics for two groups that nobody gives a shit about.

[seddm]

What’s your favorite episode of the show? My favorite is Bon Bon the Birthday Clown

Hard to choose, really. Storm The Castle is still an amazing episode even when compared to the rest of the series, more small scale in events and developments, but soaked in “ohshit!” moments. 

Bonbon The Birthday Clown might be the best episode in the series all around from a more “objective” (kinda) point of view: fantastic pacing, it has developments for multiple characters and ships, cool fight scenes, awesome soundtrack and fun gags. Toffee is another fantastic episode, I know many people didn’t like the way Toffee’s storyline ended, but it delivered both important characters moments, and the whole portion from Star’s “death” to her “resurrection” is, in my opinion, the best sequence in the series. 

Cleaved has its issues as well when one considers, well, what happened, but as an episode by itself it’s a beautiful love letter to Star and Marco’s relationship, presented in a way that doesn’t strictly revolve around them being a couple either, just two people who want to be together, so it should have been palatable even to non shippers, and the soundtrack in the climax is incredible for the standards of a TV animate show.

But all things considered, I usually answer The Knight Shift when asked about my favorite episode: it’s relatively small compared to the other ones (and not relatively as well, I mean, it’s 11 minutes only), but even if I couldn’t entirely stop thinking about all the issues (i.e. Star and Marco still not being yet together) while watching it, it still provided a perfect oasis of happiness in the middle of a painful season(s), having important yet subtle-ish developments for Star and Marco, pushing forward the theme of the season and closing Marco’s “what do in life?” arc that began back at the beginning of S2. And it has fun moments, and adorable Starco, and adorable Meteora. 

[incorrectstarcoquotes]

Incorrect Recap - S2

Alright @seddm​, Round 2 it is! My first round and his first round. Let’s get it on!

My New Wand - Star learns wandless magic in order to prevent starco from being canon early because why would we want that? It’s just the only thing everyone wants.

Ludo In The Wild - A nature documentary is the best way to show what Ludo has been up to.

Mr. Candle Cares - Tom does something wrong again and everyone still spends four years trying to convince me that he didn’t, and even if he did, it’s okay.

Red Belt - A Marco-centric story is the best way to catch up on some character development. Also, the Diaz’s are afraid of the store?

Star On Wheels - A car chase through a southern California freeway is the best way to show Star and Marco’s trust deepening.

Fetch - A dog from another dimension tries to fry its own brain to catch a break. I’m sorry, what?

Star Vs Echo Creek - Star runs away from accepting responsibility from a crime she committed and Marco spends all day and all night trying to look for her (but we don’t see that part).

Wand To Wand - Wand to wand, man to man, hand to hand. Both Star and Ludo learn to use their half of the wand.

Starstruck - Star learns the same lesson we all do, never meet your heroes.

Camping Trip - River travels dimensions through sheer force of will to be a third wheel to Star and Marco’s camping trip.

Starsitting - Babysitting is the best way to show how Star and Marco’s dynamic would be married with children.

On The Job - Buff Frog does as any good single dad would do and goes out to try to bring home the bacon...er, corn.

Goblin Dogs - The show beats down the Marco money joke until we’re introduced to a character I slowly start to hate.

By The Book - Glossaryck uses his omniscience to fuck with Star, and we learn that Ludo does know Marco’s name.

Game of Flags - Star makes her own team of two with Marco at a family reunion as they a play a game that everyone is a little too into. It’s like playing football at Thanksgiving in Texas. Even the people who don’t like football are suddenly experts.

Girls’ Day Out - Star and Janna totally become friends as Marco gets a reminder of that Jackie body. I mean, DAMN.

Sleepover - A magic box voiced by Goku forces the characters to develop.

Gift of the Card - Star and Marco act more like a canon couple than most canon couples and my favorite character name is introduced.

Friendenemies - Tom and Marco actually bond over boy bands and karate movies. I’d actually buy into this if Tom fans hadn’t been talking shit to me this whole time.

Is Mystery - Buff Frog goes up the ranks of everyone’s favorite character list by furthering the main plot.

Hungry Larry - An interdimensional terror is the best way to teach Rafael that adult fear is legitimate fear.

Spider with a Top Hat - My eight year old niece turns to me and asks, “Are we still watching Star vs?” because neither one of use could believe the crap we were looking at.

Into the Wand - We learn that Toffee is corrupting the wand and the magic but Star doesn’t figure it out until much later.

Pizza Thing - Pony Head makes everything worse for Marco because she’s Pony Head. It’s kind of her thing.

Page Turner - Star proves that she’s a Gen Z-er by believing that ancient dark voodoo whatever isn’t a big deal.

Naysaya - Tom does something wrong again and again everyone tries to tell me that he didn’t, and even if he did, it’s okay.

Bonbon The Birthday Clown - Star vs pulls a hard Toradora by having Star realize that more Jarco time does mean less Starco time. Ludo steals the book and changes the game for the characters and the plot.

Raid the Cave - Star and Marco pull a Monty Python and the Holy Grail and Star’s parents do what all leaders do and try to downplay the severity of the crisis.

Trickstar - "Weird” Al Yankovic sucks the joy out of people which is the opposite of what he does IRL.

Baby - A cute little cat thing gives Star a reality check.

Running with Scissors - A crazy episode about Marco getting his own dimensional scissors has so many terrible ramifications through the fandom. Like my God I fucking hate all you dumb motherfuckers “He’s 30. He’s 30.” THINK FOR FIVE FUCKING SECONDS YOU PIECES OF SHIT. DID NO ONE THINK WHILE MAKING OR WATCHING THIS EPISODE? AARKDAKL;SDF

I’m sorry. I lost my head for a while there.

Mathmagic - Star almost destroys the multiverse because she’s not good at math.

The Bounce Lounge - Star tries to save her favorite hangout and...that’s really it.

Crystal Clear - There are few things worse than watching a dumbass try to be smart, as Star learns.

The Hard Way - Ludo learns a spell. One spell. Singular. Toffee shows himself again.

Heinous - Marco’s parents will believe anything.

All Belts Are Off - Marco tries to get the approval of someone who really isn’t worth it, and turns out, Star really is a bug.

Collateral Damage - Star learns how crazy the people of Echo Creek actually are and Marco becomes an odd number because he literally can’t even in this episode.

Just Friends - The show pulls a Toradora for the second time but far worse.

Face the Music - Patrick Stump figures out what took everyone else two seasons to learn that STAR BUTTERFLY IS IN LOVE WITH HER BEST FRIEND...and his name is Marco Diaz. Star’s parents face political blowback because they’re just the worst.

Starcrushed - All of my worst hopes and fears come true until that last minute.

[miraculouscontent]

Askplosion #12 4/4:

(I would like to state for future reference that, while I do not mind long/multi-part asks, if you’d like to engage in actual discussion with me over a non-Miraculous topic, my DMs - Tumblr Messenger - should be open; I lost pieces of three multi-part asks this time just due to Tumblr not sending the remaining part(s) so yeah, I just wanted to make that clear)

(like, this askplosion ended up being super long because of this section and that’s not really what I want to have going on since I’m supposed to be a primarily Miraculous blog; I don’t want to have to stop answering non-Miraculous related asks but I might have to if this keeps up:)

.:New non-Miraculous Asks:.

Anonymous said:

What are your experiences with some really rude anons?

It’s partly my fault when it happens. Like I’ve said before, I’m an aspie, and part of what that means is I struggle to understand situations emotionally. I can come off as insensitive or read the mood wrong which often leads to people misunderstanding my intentions or where I’m coming from.

More often than not, what I’m saying will make 100% sense to me but not the person/people reading it. I also stick a lot more firmly to my opinions than I should because people tell me I fold too easily, and I come off as more egotistical than I actually am to cover up my low self-esteem lol.

So yeah, can’t think of any experience in particular but sometimes it might be my fault? At least I suspect that it is?

Anonymous said:

“Killed by kindness” makes me think of an assassin who kills people by giving hugs and compliments to people and the occasion gift that isn’t tampered until thre target does like Conrad Birdie making women swoon into fainting by singing.

omg

yes

Anonymous said:

You're watching Yashahime right now? rip

MARINETTE TAKE 2 MOROHA DESERVES BETTER

SETSUNA HAS SO LITTLE REASON TO HANG OUT WITH THE OTHER TWO GIRLS

IF I SEE ANOTHER DEUS EX TOWA I’M GONNA KICK SOMETHING

(so yes, I’m watching Yashahime)

Anonymous said:

Since someone recommended Remarried Empress, I would like to recommend my own webcomic: Princess Love-Pon! It's about a young girl named Lia Sagamore who becomes the titular magical girl and purifies people's hearts when they're tainted by the Dark Queen! It's really cool due to its diversity, the main character is black and her best friend is Afro-Latina, the villain and her prince son are also black, and there's a Japanese girl, a black guy, and an Indian girl. Plus, loads of pink and frills!

Thank you very much, though I actually don’t take recommendations, even from close friends. The Remarried Empress anon wasn’t a recommendation; they were more pointing something out to me and then I went to confirm.

Anonymous said:

Unrelated to MLB: Which Pokémon are your favourites?

I used a “Favorite Pokemon Picker” because I prefer going by generations to pick favorites and that was the easiest way of going about it. I struggle picking super favorites so here’s what I got form each generation! (my only rule was “one Pokemon per evolution line” with an exception of the Eevee line since they’re different types, and also Alolan/Galarian forms)

(note: the blue-patterned Vivillon is my favorite and I honestly don’t like Charizard normally but the Y version actually slims him down and gives him the wings I feel he should have; it’s an improvement of the design so it gets my seal of approval, I don’t like the X version at all)

(lol I was looking through this after I was done and find it really funny how it’s like, 50% cute things and then the other 50% is just EDGY, there’s very little in-between with me I guess)

Anonymous said:

Bridgerton the Series: Yay or nay? Sorry if you haven’t seen it or it’s not your thing. I was just curious.

Never seen it, though when I brought up to someone, they didn’t recommend it to me at all ahaha.

Anonymous said:

I previously kept having this argument about The Bechdel Test with someone. She keeps insisting that the test is invalid because there's nothing wrong with talking about men and that it was created for lesbians only, and not for feminists, with the implication that being a lesbian somehow means that you dislike men or want them gone. And she also thinks the test is about NEVER talking about men, rather than merely occasionally talking about other things. I keep telling her otherwise, but...

jdfhkgdfhjgdfg “lesbians only”

now all I can imagine is “lesbians only” sections at restaurants and such

Anonymous said:

Have you ever played Akinator, with or without the Miraculous Ladybug characters? Because I played it with Ochaco from MHA and Marinette and he guessed them within a second(can your character control gravity? Is your character a protagonist?). I even played it with myself as the "character" and he guessed "your shadow" lol. How about you?

I’ve played Akinator before but I don’t specifically remember what I was searching for lol.

Anonymous said:

The cast for the newest Power Rangers series got revealed, and I hate that as soon as I saw the Pink Ranger's bio mentioned she was an internet journalist, I thought of Alya. I really hope she doesn't have the same problems as Alya in the series proper.

fhgdfkgd journalists have been ruined for us forever

Anonymous said:

Have you noticed that in many shows, especially shonen shows, people tend to hate the most "feminine" female character? Like, in Naruto it was Sakura, in Death Note it was Misa, in My Hero Academia it was Ochaco(although a lot of people like her so I'm not so sure about that last one?). The most hated character in one too many a shonen is almost always the "girliest" of the characters. They're always claimed to be useless or reliant on a man. And this is within the fandom who should know better!

It probably didn’t help with Sakura that she was decked out in pink hair; that’s an instant girl label for you (or lesbian label, depends on the person :P).

I don’t think I’ve been in enough fandoms to have such an experience but I definitely see where you’re coming from.

Anonymous said:

Rewatching Chat Blanc and Here To Help from Star vs. and hearing Adrien/Marco tell Marinette/Star that they always liked the girls from the beginning makes me so pissed. It's not that I don't ship Starco(I do! But I also like MarcoxJanna), although I don't ship the love square, but I'm so annoyed with writers finding the need to make the audience "know" that the main ship's characters "always" liked each other, as if that makes their love for each other more true, even if it's obvious they had other crushes? Like, what happened to Kagami Tsurugi? Jackie-Lynn Thomas?

News flash: Teenagers are allowed to have crushes on multiple other people before they find "the One". It doesn't mean their love for that "One" is any less valid. And if you still want to pull the "they always liked each other since they first met", at least make it actually TRUE!!! Don't have them have crushes on other people before moving on to the "official" crush and be all like "Oh, by the way, I liked you from the start," when it's dead obvious they didn't. You're doing a disservice to the romantic "false" leads.

I'm willing to forgive Star's crush on Oskar and Tom since she's not the one claiming she always liked Marco(even though she fell in love with him LONG before he fell in love with her, which is a nice turn of events), although her "love" for Oskar was merely an infatuation at most and I personally don't see why it was needed. Why don't they just say that their old crush didn't do it for them???

UGH, I remember watching that show and being so annoyed because I really liked Marco and Jackie and wanted them to be a thing but I knew that they’d pull Starco in the end because of course they would.

It also totally makes it seem as if love is the most powerful relationship there is (aros would like a word), which is so bizarre when there are so many “power of friendship” tropes. Like, a male and female lead have to get together because their relationship is the strongest.

The love square would hold so much more meaning to me without this love drama nonsense. It’s tiring.

Anonymous said:

Have you seen Yuki Yuna Is a Hero? If so, then what are your thoughts on it? I was thinking of watching it but it seems to be another "taking away the empowerment of the magical girl genre by making the girls suffer instead" type story. I read about it on TV Tropes and apparently it's a deconstruction that takes after Madoka Magica which already puts a bad taste in my mouth, but then I got to the examples and they're basically about how girls who get magical powers lose their body parts one by one and that the reason only girls can be heroes is because "young girls have always been sacrifices".

Not to mention it was written by a man and aimed towards a seinen(adult men ages 17-35) demographic, making it torture porn for adult men. Also, both the laconic page for Yuki Yuna and Madoka Magica say "Being a magical girl sucks."(though for Yuki Yuna it adds "Unless you have the power of friendship.") and to be honest that kills any desire in me to watch the show. Should I give it a chance?

Oof.

Yeah, after bringing it up to a friend of mine, it was instantly recommended of me not to watch it, so I’d say, “no.”

Anonymous said:

Let's make one thing perfectly clear. I, love, love, LOVE Sailor Moon. And I love the transformations, too. But if there's one thing I don't love, it's that their outfits all look pretty much the same but with different colors/different lengths of gloves and shoes and stuff like that, and that they all have the exact same body type save for the one fat girl who's made to look bad. I don't like Madoka Magica, but at least they all had unique/different costumes(but they still have similar bodies).

We’re not allowed diversity here. Take your different body types to a show that cares; we’re all about femininity here and how girls can be beautiful and powerful no matter wha--oh wait...

Yeah, I don’t care for the design in Sailor Moon, but that’s because skirts don’t interest me design-wise unless it’s really unique/interesting.

(note that there’s a lot of talk about tomboys, sexism, and TV tropes and such below, and then Madoka Magica after that; that’s basically the rest of this askplosion:)

Anonymous said:

I just saw the thumbnail for a video called "Why You Should Watch Princess Tutu(Yes, I Know The Name Is Stupid)". Umm, why is it stupid exactly? Because it's "girly"? What is with people thinking that in order for a girly show to be good they have to first separate the show from its girliness in order to enjoy it? It's like how men will say a show is good despite it being girly, or that since it's good it's no longer girly. Nobody does this for boy shows, because boy things are "never" stupid.

Princess = girly thing

Tutu = girly thing

girly things = bad

That’s the formula~ They should’ve called it something edgier and manly so that more people would be interested.

Anonymous said:

I'm wary of any woman or girl who says, "I'm a girl, but I'd rather read books about guys" or "I'm a female writer but I mostly write stories about male characters". I feel like those women are the "not like other girls/one of the guys" type who suffer from internalized misogyny and don't like female characters. I also feel like they're the type to not care about female representation, because in their minds, girls shouldn't care about female role models. We can enjoy males just as much! I do!

To be fair, they might also just be writing about shirtless men doing “handsome” things. ;P

But nah, I see your point. Me personally, I try to find a balance of writing both, but I do think there can be bias.

Anonymous said:

Do you think it's okay to like a ship but acknowledge that it wouldn't be safe or healthy or condonable in real life? Because I was just thinking of how a lot of people like some really "toxic" ships like Veronica/JD in Heathers, Yuno/Yukki in Future Diary, Madoka/Homura in Madoka Magica(although some people don't like it because of its toxicity/like it but don't realize it's toxic), almost any villain/hero ship, the list goes on. But they're aware of the fact that it's not a good standard for healthy relationships in real life.

An alternative I've seen is people having a crush on "dangerous" characters like JD and Yuno, or Karma from Assassination Classroom(there's not a single video on YouTube with him in it that DOESN'T have comments full of people saying they want Karma to father their children), but still being aware of the fact that the character is a) not real and b) wouldn't be a good partner if they were real(and that's assuming they even want to be with you. But sometimes there's a good reason for falling in love with a "toxic/dangerous" character.

Take Monika from Doki Doki Literature Club! She's obsessed with the player(not the player CHARACTER, the flesh and blood player themselves) to the point of killing off all the other girls and "trapping" you in a room with her where she talks endlessly about lots of things. But she's actually a lonely girl who's driven insane by the fact that nothing around her is real. She latches on to you because you're the only other person who's real and sapient and has got a mind of their own. You're literally her outlet to the outside world.

She's personally my favorite character in the game due to her actually being a more fleshed out, sympathetic(and not in the idealized "moemoe" way), and realistic take on the Yandere archetype(which, like many moe archetypes, is kinda misogynistic in nature in that it reinforces submissiveness; it's basically animes version of "woman scorned".). So it makes sense that people would sympathize with her and want her to become real, because all she's ever wanted was to be real and to talk to real people. Especially since she really did care about her friends and even returned them back to life because she saved their backup files, taking herself out of the picture.

I read a few "Monika becomes real and lives with you" fanfictions where she's really sweet and not at all crazy and cares for you a lot, and it's never felt the same as all those other "Yandere/psycho lives with you and is your girl/boyfriend" type stories precisely because those stories tend to just glorify possessive partners that kill your loved ones, drive your family members to commit suicide, and tear up your stuffed animals and dollies for the sake of it, rather than go into why they're so crazy for you, and often reinforce Stockholm Syndrome.

Plus, those "things" she talks about in the empty room? They're actually quite smart and make you think about the world for a bit. Not many "crazy" type characters actually get that. They're all about how "I'll slice your boyfriend open with an axe if you don't date me wa ha ha", and even if they're not, it's all the fandom will focus on, to the point of ignoring any and all other aspects to their character. Because that "crazy in love" aspect is the most appealing part of them. Maybe it's due to forbidden fruit/bad boy(or girl) appeal? Who knows? But I'm starting to wonder if it's still as bad if people recognize the problematic aspects of "crazy in love" characters or "dysfunctional" relationships.

Because if they recognize it's not real and don't really want it for themselves, then it's probably not much of a problem. But if they just go on wanting it to be real and never take a step back and go "wait a minute, this isn't real love; they're only together because he latches onto the first girl to show him any kindness and affection and she's a doormat who doesn't want something bad to happen if she leaves him", then that's bad.

Obviously it's not as bad as being in love with literal stalkers, killers, and rapists in real life(which is an actual thing, believe it or not, it's called hybristophilia), because fictional characters will never be real. Karma Akabane will never be real. Yuno Gasai will never be real. JD will never be real. But loving fictional characters who do those things and not realizing the problem with it may cause people to seek out real criminals, so it's best to separate fiction from reality.

I can’t help judging a little internally, but yeah, I think people can ship whatever as long as it has that “not in real life” scenario going for it. It’s ultimately fiction, so just because I don’t like it and/or think that it’s bad doesn’t mean other people can’t ship it.

Anonymous said:

I'm getting tired of all the racists on TV Tropes getting upset whenever a trope has a Japanese name. Whether it's Tsundere, Yandere, Meganekko, Genki Girl, Bokukko, or any Japanese anime name, people will complain that the trope exists beyond anime so it shouldn't have a "cute anime name", and that it should instead just be given a broader(read: English) name with the same meaning. Or that the site is too obsessed with anime. I'm just sick of people saying that anime names are bad.

The other thing is that we don’t actually have English words for certain things? I mean, the whole reason we say, “tsundere,” is because it says everything in one word. It’s easy.

(Also, people are aware the the English language isn’t some unique thing that takes no inspiration from other languages, right? It’s a mix of things, so accept that other languages exist because we literally wouldn’t have English without them.)

Anonymous said:

Have you seen the TV Tropes reviews for "My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic"? Holy crap, they are all a perfect example of the "Real Women Don't Wear Dresses" phenomenon that I have mentioned earlier and is so fucking present on this site. While some reviews praise the show for showing that "it's okay to be strong AND girly"(such as Hadles' review, which was really splendid), and that girl shows are no less good, others either insult the show by calling it "girly, saccharine, and stupid" as if "girly" is synonymous with anything bad about a show, or feel the need to distance it from its girliness in order to praise it as if a show can't be good if it's also girly.

Some people were saying things like "the show might seem girly at first, but it's actually a good, brilliant show with intricate plot twists, well-developed characters, and even some scary moments" and "the characters aren't just shallow girly-girls, they have depth!" So what, girliness is mutually exclusive to anything of value? One person even said that the Girl-Show Ghetto was the reason they couldn't get into the show or respect it. Just...wow.

And one review even said "Rarity's pretty tough for a girly girl!" Excuse me? Tough FOR a girly girl? So being a girly girl somehow automatically disqualifies you from being tough? Like "yeah, she's tough despite being a girly girl! Because girly girls aren't supposed to be tough."

It reminds me of the phrase "you're pretty for a black girl", which, while it's never been said to ME, I have heard other people complain about. It's sick and it hurts, just like this. And the few people who didn't say things like that still said that they couldn't get into the show at first because it looked "girly and vapid", before changing their minds and thinking that the show either proved their biases about girly shows wrong, no longer think it's girly since girly shows "can't" be good, or like it "despite" it's girliness.

And there were 70 reviews in all. 70 reviews full of this misogynistic "girly is bad" shit. So in conclusion nearly all the reviews on TV Tropes for My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic were along the lines of one of three things. 1) "This show is girly so I looked past it because girly shows are dumb." 2) "This show is good despite being girly/the characters are good despite being girly." and 3) "This show is not girly to me at all because it is well-written and captivating and girly shows aren't capable of such things."

Granted, some people there were able and willing to call out those who judged the show badly for being girly(or gave it the "not like other girls" treatment, but in show form), as well as people warning other potential viewers to get rid of any potential bias they may have against it due to it being girly. But there were still more people insulting its girliness as a reason they think it sucks or denying its girliness to justify their liking of it than the other way around.

I would've accepted it in the form of "If you think this show is bad because of its inherent girliness, then you are wrong!" or "This show is proof that a show being girly or aimed at girls doesn't and shouldn't take away from its value, as people seem to believe." or "A girl can be girly and be a strong female character.", but no, instead I got shit like this. It's especially insulting when TV Tropes is a site that devotes itself in part to critiquing sexist tropes found in media, only to turn right around and reinforce them.

I don’t read TV Tropes that frequently, so I fortunately missed out on all of these complete idiots who associate girly products with being bad.

(that “pretty for a black girl” comment makes me hate all aspects of “expectations of beauty” and it’s like--plz let these die)

I could maybe see an argument for criticizing a girls show for being “saccharine” if it were like, “girls’ shows written by men who clearly don’t know how to write girls are usually bad,” because then it’s not a criticism of girls’ shows exactly but rather who keeps being put in charge of writing them.

Anonymous said:

I get so annoyed when people get upset when confronted with the matter of female representation with "what's so wrong with one show having a male protagonist or mostly men and one/a few women? Why do we have to include women in everything?" These people clearly do not understand that one show doing it is one thing, but when multiple shows do it, it's an obvious problem. It's even worse when they turn around and diss shows with largely female casts for "not having enough men".

And as for people getting upset that "every show has to include women/come with a checkbox nowadays", as if it's bad to include women in your story...look around. Women make up 50% of the population. They're literally everywhere. What reason do you have to not include a substantial amount of women?

These people act like male is the default and women are a last resort. They see no problem with men dominating a cast because it's justified(despite that not reflecting real life), and yet having female characters, or, hell, a female-dominated cast(I know they also don't reflect real life, but there are still female-dominated spaces; most colleges are 2/3 female) is "unrealistic" trying to fulfill a quota, or a straw feminist agenda, as if characters can't be female for their own sake. You shouldn't have to be forced include women because their presence should be a given.

How many stories nowadays take place in the war front in Viking times or whatever? A lot of men just don't want to include female characters or see them represented(well) in media because those who are overrepresented tend to want to stay that way. They likely also have insecurities about their masculinity and are worried about female characters flooding their shows with estrogen and ruining the shows they love, because they can't relate to female characters or enjoy shows about them without negating their girliness(ie. This show seems girly, but it's actually good), since they're ashamed to associate themselves with anything feminine due to looking down on women or seeing them as bad.

Plus they want to be the center of everything so the second a show is about mostly women they get upset and claim it's "sexist against men" because it's not about them. Hence why bronies(bless their souls) are made fun of for the grave sin of enjoying a female-centric show with a female protagonist and largely female characters. Granted, there are some freaky fans, but there's still some sexism at play here.

This reminds me of a post I saw about a boy who actually looked up to female characters because you can pick a role model who doesn’t fit your gender. Crazy concept, I know. ;P

And yeah, that’s how it goes with equality. People who are best/most represented don’t want equality because they think it means less for them and they don’t want that, like a child who doesn’t want to share their cookies with everyone else.

Anonymous said:

I love TV Tropes, but if there's one problem I have with it, it's how often it associates femininity with weakness. The "Masculine Girl, Feminine Boy" trope is a good example of this, but the worst offender in my opinion is the Girly Girl With a Tomboy Streak, as most of the examples there are simply of girls who are strong-willed or fierce or can fight. Because you know, those traits are male. It's bad because there are ALREADY tropes for girly girls who can fight, Girly Bruiser and Lady of War (which TV Tropes even goes out of its way to SAY shouldn't be counted as a "Tomboy Streak" and yet does stuff like this), but it's also bad because ANY girly girl with these qualities, no matter how feminine they are otherwise, will be seen by TV Tropes as having to be at least somewhat tomboyish(read: masculine) in order to have those traits. Because regular girly girls are just weak and fragile and only want to be housewives.

It's even worse when you realize that much of these characters are created with the exact purpose of subverting the stereotype that girliness equals weak, and instead present a new and more empowering form of femininity: that femininity is strong and DOES NOT equal being a passive sex tool for men's pleasure. They're MEANT to show that being a tomboy is not the only way to be strong, and TV Tropes acknowledges that! But then they also go and claim these characters have "Tomboy Streaks" thus undermining the positive message by insinuating that you have to be tomboyish to be strong and that even girly girls have to have some level of masculinity to be deemed respectable and equal human beings, plus manipulating many impressionable folks into thinking strength and bravery is automatically tomboyish.

Worse yet, they often put a character here because "she's a big eater" or "she burps/farts a lot". Gee, I didn't know women had bodily functions? I didn't know women had digestive systems? So basically any time a girl shows that she is a human being and not a pretty, passive doll to be idealized, she is acting like a man. Because only men are fully-fledged human beings. Even outside of that, look at basically any masculinity-femininity contrast trope(Tomboy and Girly Girl, Sensitive Guy and Manly Man, Masculine Girl Feminine Boy, etc.). The "masculine" character will often be described as dominant, assertive, or outspoken, and the "feminine" character will often be called weak-willed, passive, emotional, and timid. It's fucking sickening.

The Tomboy With A Girly Streak trope is similar to its inverse in that a tomboyish girl will often be placed under this trope with their proclaimed "girly" streak being that she's tender or cries a lot or is soft spoken/a doormat. Because being girly is about not taking up too much space, not having any ambition or aspiration, and overall being a weak and shallow waste of space. For a site that claims to dismantle such sexist misconceptions, it sure does reinforce them just as much.

I almost want to stop using TV Tropes based on that and many other reasons, but it's a genuinely informative site that at least tries to avoid these stereotypes(plus it's edited by more than one person), it just doesn't do enough. For example, they made an awkward claim once that women can't fight while on their periods, and even have an Improbably Female Cast trope, as if it's abnormal that a cast could consist of mostly women and demands an explanation. To them, femininity=inferior.

And then in comes the “anti-girl tomboy” characters who basically do everything “girls don’t do;” glares at things like make-up and such, rolls eyes at the subject of “girl talk” or “romance,” drinks anything carbonated and spreads their legs wide open, etcetera.

Guys really don’t get the same version, at least not that I’m aware of? Like, at best, they don’t participate in “guy things” but that’s about it.

Having characters acknowledge it just makes everything more blatant, like if a woman comes by and the guys have to assure “DON’T WORRY, SHE’S LIKE ONE OF THE GUYS.”

It’s like a woman can only hang out and engage in “guy talk/time” (the concept of which I hate but that’s besides the point) if they can crush a beer can against their forehead.

Anonymous said:

OMG TV Tropes called Cirno the Ice Fairy from Touhou a "tomboy"? Why? Because she's boisterous and outspoken and not a "shy girly-girl" like Daiyousei! TV Tropes clearly believes that any girl or woman who is more than just a pretty face(which ALL women are, by the way), who takes up space, who has a dynamic personality and isn't just a weeping wallflower(which I'm not saying Daiyousei is) is a tomboy. Because she's acting like a man that way. Ugh, so over TV Tropes and their sexism.

And all the girls in Touhou(including Cirno) wear big frilly dresses anyway so it doesn't really make sense to see ANY of them as tomboys. But no, apparently any girl who is rowdy or tough or is active and not passive is a tomboy. You gotta be a tomboy to have attitude. You can tell they think so because they often say things like "strong, but still feminine" as if those things are opposites. They even described femininity as "weak and susceptible, vain and superficial". Like, ugh, kill me now.

I legitimately want to see a bullet point list here of what qualifies as a “tomboy.” Like, what, anyone who does one thing that isn’t “girly”?

Can we just throw out all of these terms; not even replace them, just throw them out?

(the below ask is incomplete - the first part is missing - but the asker clarified after I asked them, so clarification is below:)

Anonymous said:

Tropes is because I'm working on a story and I hope when it becomes famous that TV Tropes will write about it, but as it stands, I'm beginning to wonder that TV Tropes undermines most stories or plots to do with women one way or another. I mean, they constantly create tropes with the intent of calling out inherent biases, yet reinforce those biases themselves.

For example, they have a trope called Men Are Generic, Women Are Special, which points out the bias of male being the default, and yet on almost every other page on the wiki describing a trope, the default character will be a "he"(especially if it's a character trope), and whenever they mention "The Hero" or "The Big Bad" it's always a he unless it needs to be female(like if the heroine is in a romance story, or if the villain is a seductress). Female characters at best, can hope to be "The Heart" or "The Chick" of the group(which is often used in a demeaning way).

They even have a trope called "Improbably Female Cast" in which they point out all the instances of a story's setting having an "over-abundance" of women or girls with no men in sight, and claim that such stories have majority female characters when it is "unusual" "unlikely" or "lacks justification". Someone even suggested that the trope should be called "Where Are All The Men?" as if there's something inherently weird or wrong when a story is dominated by female characters, and like the story is in dire need of men, as if only men can be protagonists.

Even if the story has a justifiable reason for having mostly women, the fact that the writer made that choice at all is somehow deserving of mention. The mere fact that there's no "Improbably Male Cast" trope shows where the site's biases lay. They don't see anything wrong with a show being dominated by men with little to no female representation(ex. Death Note), and yet a show dominated by women(ex. MLPFIM) is somehow an anomaly and demands an explanation(even if the story does provide a reason for it, TV Tropes will still list it and presume it "improbable", as if to say "I mean, yeah, but there's no reason why you couldn't just make them mEn instead", as if writers who have mostly female characters are going out of their way to steer away from the "default" males.

In fact, they even admit that "Men Are Generic, Women Are Special" is their reason for having such a trope, but not the inverse. They even say that it's not the trope if the show revolves around a group of girlfriends with no indication of the gender ratio in the wider setting. So any time the females outnumber the males a story it's instantly labeled "improbable" because there's NO WAY any setting AT ALL could have more females than males. That's improbable! You see, this is why when women are 1/3 of the people in a given space men perceive it as "majority female" because they're uncomfortable with women having more of a presence than men.

We'll never have true equality if shows with majority female casts continue to be scrutinized under a microscope and assumed to be of inferior, lesser quality, just because there's no male characters around and it's women who are driving the plot. My problem isn't that they have a trope for majority female casts, it COULD be a testament to gender equality(ie., "there used to not be a lot of shows revolving around women, but now they're becoming increasingly common and well-known), but it's that they single out such stories as "unlikely" and thus discredit them.

And worse yet, they refuse to change the name, because they don't see a problem with it. So now every single show that doesn't have an equal number of males and females or more males than females is going to be called "improbable" by TV Tropes, because there's something(bad) to be said about shows that choose to make most of their characters women. Death Note and Naruto can slide by the radar of having loads of men, but Madoka Magica and Touhou are "improbable"? Because they have loads of women?

the clarification:

Anonymous said:

I started out complaining about how TV Tropes says that boys will watch Star Vs. The Forces of Evil only because of Marco(who's great, but it comes off like boys can only relate to boy characters) and that the show only looks girly but has a deep complex plot with scary moments(as if a show can't be dark and complex and still be girly; girly=shallow, watered down fluff), hence my complaint about TV Tropes undermining girly shows or anything "girly".

Yup, exactly like I said.

Good stuff in “girly” things is the exception. Good stuff in “manly” things is expected.

Which is funny when you consider stuff like “edgy” reboots of things. Like, Disney remakes their original movies and that usually means making them worse (like in Beauty and the Beast - god I hate that remake - where the objects are going to become complete objects when the last petal falls even though the enchantress is explicitly a good person and it comes off as super cruel and unnecessary), but that seems to just be its own breed of bad I guess.

Then there are terms like “chick flicks” and “soap operas” which are usually women-oriented and tend to be considered dumb/over-dramatic.

You know, not like MEN shows with their sexualization of women, guns and MEN things.

Anonymous said:

Remember what I said about TV Tropes being sexist? Well, they also have a trope called "Girly Run". Like, that's literally the name. Girly. Run. Thankfully the first example(which is under advertising due to the forms of media being in alphabetical order) is an aversion from the blessed Like A Girl campaign, but...just reading the page lets the casual-yet-bold-faced sexism speak for itself.

why can’t things just be like the Sims where characters can wear whatever the hell they want and have any personality without any judgment or criticism from other Sims?

(more Madoka Magica talk - and ONLY Madoka Magica talk - below because I’ve unleashed a monster apparently:)

Anonymous said:

I know you don't like Frozen but I saw a theory somewhere that Elsa's powers came from making a contract with Kyubey and her wish was to impress her sister and anyway I can't stop rolling my eyes. This isn't(just) because of my distaste for Madoka Magica compared to my love for Frozen, but if Elsa's a Puella Magi then why didn't she become a witch long ago? How did she make it to adulthood? How did she become emotionally stable? And why do her powers have to come from a negative source?

I think it might just be people looking for excuses to do their crossover fanfiction which--yeah, I’m not crazy about that.

Anonymous said:

Did you know that Cristina Vee voiced Homura Akemi in the English Dub? It's very noticeable, especially during the Cake Song, where I could've sworn she sounds exactly like Marinette. By the way, I'm still not sure what the hell was going on in that song. Could you please explain it to me(if you know)?

Nooooo don’t make me think of Homura when I think of Marinette!! fjkdgjnfdg

lol but seriously, I think the Cake Song is just meant to be one of those “weird but meant to be dEeP” things that shows do sometimes to be cool (not a criticism technically; depends on how it’s used).

I think the cake is the labyrinth and Homura saying that she’s the pumpkin makes her the odd one out since pumpkins are associated with scares and halloween, so it’s “foreshadowing” her being the witch. The things that they say they are... they’re like--ingredients for a meal, but not a cake, so the the cake is the labyrinth and they’re the things that would go inside it.

Homura and Madoka are the only ones who really get descriptions to go with them. Homura says that she’s “full of seeds” (despair?) and Madoka implies that it’ll bring sweet dreams once she’s sliced (which is either referring to the godly freedom given to magical girls before they turn into witches, or foreshadowing Madoka being “split” after Homura stops Madoka from purifying her, leading to Homura’s “sweet dream” of what it’s like when everything is “normal” after her reality twisting).

Anonymous said:

May I ask what you don't like about Kyoko's character? Is it because she was the stereotypical "jerk with a heart of gold"? Or because the writer made her flip from hating Sayaka and wanting her dead to suddenly dying for Sayaka even though she barely knows her compared to Madoka(because the writer doesn't understand how girls' relationships work)? For me it was a mixture of both(though I still don't mind KyoSaya!), but I still liked her enough, she just felt a tad stereotypical. Your thoughts?

It’s both. I just don’t like characters like her at all and the runtime of Madoka Magica can’t maintain all of these characters, “developing” them, and then killing them off. I don’t even have any time to get attached to them because they’re dead within a matter of a few episodes.

And it’s always like, “okay here’s this character’s backstory to make you feel emotionally attached--HA NOW THEY’RE DEAD. SEE??? WE TOTALLY GOT YOU.”

Like, no, you didn’t. I didn’t even have time to care about THEM, much less their actual death.

Anonymous said:

What about the girls in Madoka Magica? Do you think they're strong female characters? Now, obviously the show is not feminist, since it misses the whole point of Magical Girl, which is to empower girls and show them that girls can be powerful and feminine and can find strength in solidarity with each other by instead making them suffer and fight each other and have their power come from their emotions, which are exploited and turned against them because women can't be powerful, but still...

It’s the same way I feel about Marinette; there are some who I want to say are strong characters, but the writing is ready to just kill them off at any time and bully them for essentially having emotions.

Basically, imagine a male writer hands you a character sheet and is like, “AW YEAH CHECK OUT THIS sTrOng FEMALE CHARACTER I WROTE.”

Like, even if they were right, their ego and obnoxiousness about the whole thing, along with what they actually do to said character, makes you not want to give them any credit for it.

Anonymous said:

How do you think Puella Magi Madoka Magica would be different if they had magical boys as well(which can mean either gender-bending canon magical girls or introducing original magical boys)? Do you think the show would be better? Worse? Or would it be just about the same?

Personally I feel like having magical boys would be good and bad; good because there would be no more of the “teenage girls are hysterical” crap and it wouldn’t just be girls suffering because they can’t handle power, and bad because it would still be problematic(for stereotyping all teens as over emotional and deserving to be taken advantage of by the Incubators, and it would still be about kids suffering in a genre meant to empower girls, having some of them be boys wouldn’t help that much).

I also feel like Gen Urobuchi would still make the girls suffer more and have them be more emotionally and mentally unstable. Holy crap it feels like he read up on Aristotle’s views on women while making this show.

It would at least be more balanced I guess? Like, teenage years are a fragile time, so it would make sense for both girls and boys to be taken advantage of. I still wouldn’t like it but it would be nice to point out, “there are emotional boys as well as emotional girls.”

Anonymous said:

Literally all the problems with Treatment of Marinette, Chat's Entitlement(TM), and the sheer sexism in general(ex. all the teenage girls and even women villains being catty and bitchy, while the male villains are cool, suave, and calculating; female villains being irredeemable scum while male villains are "not as bad as they seem", etc.) could all be solved if the show just got some more female writers! You know a show isn't feminist like people claim if none of the writers are women.

That's what I love about Friendship is Magic; the show is written and directed by a woman and actually has a variety of both male and female writers! Plus, Lauren Faust explicitly identifies as a feminist and claims her works are meant to empower women and show them that there's no wrong way to be a girl. And the show reflects that! There's no "token girl" who checks all the boxes; the females have realistic flaws, diverse personalities, and let's not forget ARE THE HEROES!!! Not to mention that the cast is actually PREDOMINANTLY FEMALE. Do people have any idea how refreshing that is?!

And that's why whenever people claim that shows like Madoka Magica are feminist when it's written by men for men while also dismissing actually feminist shows written by women for women as "sexist" or "demeaning", I cringe inside. It's not just what the show looks like, it's what the people behind it say.

And Gen Urobuchi is not a feminist. At all. Just listen to the things he says about the girls, that they're terrorists who are full of hubris and destined to be alone, and that actual magical girl shows weren't his inspiration beyond the show's cosmetics, he just based it off of porn games. He only watched those shows after making Madoka Magica and admitted they were weird to him. Well, maybe they wouldn't be weird if you actually used them as inspiration! Why are you even making magical girl? So basically he admitted that all the suffering the girls go through is because it's his fetish.

I knew I wasn't imagining things when I saw all those weird shots and angles(ex. zooming in on Sayaka's thighs and breasts when she collapses to the floor, Madoka gripping the bed sheets between her legs when agitated, zooming in on Kyoko's ass when she takes her phone out of her shorts' back pocket, it's all for cheap titillation). And yet people keep saying the show is devoid of male gaze and sexism and why? Because apparently men know how to represent women better than women themselves.

you said “Madoka gripping the bed sheets between her thighs” and it gave me an immediate flashback, I hate it

I find that it’s a similar thing with gay anime/manga; I’m more likely to trust a F/F story if it’s written by a woman since they’re less likely to sexualize everything.

Anonymous said:

Homura in Puella Magi Madoka Magica: But Madoka, what's going to happen to you? You'll end up all alone here forever! You'll never be able to see your friends and family! Homura in Rebellion: Haha, screw Madoka's friends and family! Only I am worthy of Madoka's love! That girl belongs to me! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!(I'm sorry for the over exaggeration, but this is how it felt for me.)

Apparently, it was better for Madoka to just have all of her memories and powers yoinked away.

Sayaka is Madoka’s right hand girl so idk why Homura has this idea that she needs to sAvE Madoka. The fact that this whole thing comes out of a misunderstanding (because Madoka doesn’t have her memories) is so irritating.

Anonymous said:

I actually love Madoka Magica, but I completely agree with you on the hysterical women thing. Why couldn’t they just have... both magical girls and magical boys? Like, just mention that magical boys are a thing? They don’t even have to change anything but that, they don’t even really have to show it, just be like “yeah there’s magical boys too but that’s not really what this story is about, it’s about our characters we have here”. I don’t know, feels like that would have at least helped stuff.

Yeah, they don’t have to bother having the magical boys around. Just to know they exist would be enough. I mean, the fact that the focus is on them would still be bothersome (they’d probably do a thing where each girl represents a different emotion that is easily manipulated/easy to control), but it’d be something.

Anonymous said:

One thing that weirds me out when people are talking about Madoka Magica is when people refer to the characters as "little girls". Like, excuse me? They are not "little girls". They are teenagers! All of them are at least 14 years old! I hate when people call them "little", it's just so condescending and infantilizing, especially when the show does enough of that to them already. After all, no one makes that mistake with the heroines of Lucky Star and Hidamari Sketch(who are also drawn by Aoki)!

I feel like it’s the equivalent of when people call women “girls,” y’know? Sort of a “treating females as younger than they really are,” which is probably what gives guys the feeling that they have control.

For a gender that claims to be so dominant, certain ones sure have to delude themselves a lot to make themselves feel better.

Anonymous said:

I was thinking about what you said about Puella Magi Madoka Magica passing the Bechdel Test, and if it counts if there's barely any men to talk about. And while I do agree that it counts, I also feel that it doesn't really matter much in shows such as Madoka. This isn't even about feminism, this is about the fact that if a show has next to no men in it at all then it's pretty much a given that they won't talk about them since it would be impractical to talk about something that doesn't exist.

So because of that, I think there should either be an alternative test which only applies to shows that have a significant or equal number of male characters and yet the ladies still pass the test(making it feel more "real" since the option to talk about men is there), or the test should be rewritten entirely so that it only applies to shows in which the cast is either equally gender-split, or has a majority male cast/significant amount of males even if the females still outnumber them.

Reminds me of how, on TV Tropes, someone suggested that there should be a "Weak" and "Strong" Bechdel Test, where "Weak" refers to the women talking about something other than men because it is literally what's relevant at the moment(such as two female police officers discussing how to catch a female killer), thus applying the Bechdel Test there seems semi-void, while "Strong" is when they could talk about men but choose not to(ie. two female students talking about their grades during lunch).

And just to clarify about the "Strong" one, when I say they could talk about men but choose not to, this isn't to imply that female characters should talk about men, or that something's wrong with them for not talking about men, just that there's nothing stopping them from doing so, but they choose to talk about something unrelated to men. I think this strategy is much better than the test we have because it makes conversations between female characters seem more real since they're discussing things other than men of their own volition, rather than the non-male-centered talk being because they have to talk about it in-universe. I say that because The Bechdel Test serves to show that women's lives don't and shouldn't revolve around men, and they can talk about other things if they want to, but if the conversation is because they have to(like the example I gave), that gives sexists the opportunity to go "Yeah, well, they're only talking about it because it's their job!"

But if the female characters talk about things other than men of their own free will(as in, when the option is still there), then it shows that women really do have their own free will to talk about their own things and that there is NO REASON to not pass the Bechdel Test in today's day and age(I keep hearing people claim the test is stupid and doesn't matter, but then it should be easy to pass). "Oh, but if they had the choice, they would talk about men." No, because men don't sit around and talk about the women in their lives all day so why should women talk about the men in their lives all day? And to the people saying these types of tests are getting in the way of their "creativity", well, now that we know that you think female representation is stupid and something you have to be forced to do, we don't have to listen to a word you say. ;)

I like the idea of adjusting the Bechdel Test for other circumstances and expanding it as such!

You could also extend it to things like sexualization, because--I mean, having two female characters who talk to each other probably doesn’t mean much if they’re half-dressed or the writer wanted to make them bisexual for “The Fanservice.”

Anonymous said:

To be honest deconstructions of Magical Girl confuse me. There are some good ones out there(such as Princess Tutu and Revolutionary Girl Utena, so I know they're not all just torture porn, my only gripe with Utena is the implication that girls who take on the feminine "Princess" role are weak), but at its heart Magical Girl has always dealt with death, gore and pain just as much as female empowerment.

It makes me feel like the people who write these stories haven't seen magical girl and think it's all just sunshine and rainbows and that just because it's "girly" it's vapid and has no substance, and since the only way to have substance apparently is to be "dark", they go "screw it with all this princessy magical shit! Let's make our show dark instead!" When in reality if they had just sat down and watched a magical girl anime, they would understand that this is not the case.

Not to mention that many of them tend to have fanservice and the idea that magical girls have to suffer, so instead of empowering young girls, they end up misrepresenting the genre and turning it into fetish fuel torture porn for adult men(Madoka Magica and Yuki Yuna are very good examples of this; the writer of Madoka says that the girls are terrorists and full of hubris and that he was inspired by porn games). It's not that you can't deconstruct the genre at all, but it's almost never done tastefully and the magical girl themes are just a cover used to explain the suffering the girls go through. :(

Another thing about magical girl deconstructions is that they often reinforce patriarchal themes, like that girls shouldn't want things for themselves and that genuinely doing something for someone while also having ulterior motives that help yourself are a BAD BAD BAD thing, no matter how ultimately harmless they are, even if they help everybody involved. They also tend to reinforce Tall Poppy Syndrome and portray the powers as harmful or a bad thing, implying that girls shouldn't have power.

Honestly, I think there can totally be even more substance in magical girl anime that doesn’t have to resort to “make it eDgY” (which I feel like is a slippery slope that can easily come off as lazy); for example, I’d really enjoy seeing something deeper to magical girl powers than something like, “oh, this magical girl happens to have the power that fits their personality,” such as a magical girl who has a power she feels she doesn’t fit but it’s a matter of perspective/seeing herself differently, or a magical girl who does have the powers that “fit” her personality - like a “fiery” girl with fire powers - and the weaknesses in her powers correlate to the weaknesses in her personality, so she has to either iron out those issues or find workarounds, as true “perfection” isn’t possible nor practical, which is something all the girls have to accept despite whatever pressure they’re under.

.I dunno, I like lore and powers revolving around metaphors. It’s fun.

Anonymous said:

About what you said in regards to "no pueri magi because it doesn't hit the shock value threshold enough", I remember this interesting comment I saw on an article called "The Problem With The Dark Magical Girl Genre"(which I would totally recommend checking out, by the way!) which said that shojo magical girl and seinen magical girl both embrace a different philosophy regarding strong female fighters. In shojo, they tend to embrace femininity as a strength and show girls that they have the power to do whatever they want and undergo dangerous professions. But in seinen, which conveniently enough is more likely to "deconstruct" the genre(ugh), rather than admiring the girls and supporting them in their endeavors, the girls are meant to be pitied(often to the point of infantilization) when bad things happen to them, with the fact that they are girls serving to make everything worse. It operates under the idea that girls are fragile, in need of protection, and shouldn't be fighting at all.

That's why deconstructions like Madoka Magica and Yuki Yuna don't sit right with me, and also why I don't consider them feminist series. People can say whatever they want about Sailor Moon and Pretty Cure, but ultimately they also had dark and dangerous themes(to the point where some kids had nightmares), but ultimately allowed the girls to rise above the hell they went through and find the strength in them to save the day. We feel bad for them when they die, not because they're moe girls, but because we were actually given the time to form a connection with them and want to see them succeed, rather than just be expected to pity them because they're cute manipulated girls. That way, when they ultimately save the day, it's all the more satisfying. Princess Tutu was a deconstruction that actually went about it in the right way, because the girls eventually found the courage to defeat their enemies in a way that made sense. Why the hell is it a "good" thing to subvert that?

No clue, but I basically agree with everything there. I mean, Madoka Magica’s entire stick is basically that all the girls are like “uwu” in terms of the style (with Madoka being the “cutest” of them all) and then being put in this dark and edgy plot+setting; it’s for both the shock value and the “contrast” of having “moe” characters be thrust into these situations to essentially die.

And the conclusion doesn’t end up being satisfying (at least to me) because the villain doesn’t have emotions so he’s just like “owo” (seriously, I wouldn’t hate on Rebellion so much if Kyubey had been given emotions rather than going crazy; Homura can basically do whatever she wants and it was SUCH A MISSED OPPORTUNITY) so it ends up being more about the journey getting there like wow look at all the sUbvErSiOnS and dEaTh we had along the way!

Because at the end of the day, it’s still like, “the girls give into their ‘hysterical emotions’ in the end basically no matter what,” even if they get saved by Madoka in the end.

Anonymous said:

Do you remember, in Madoka Magica, when Kyubey said that humans would still be living in caves if not for the Incubators? First of all, keep in mind what Incubators do. Their entire purpose on this earth is to feed off the emotions of young teenage girls as they spiral into despair as a result of their delusions of power. Like wow, let that sink in. Apparently humanity's advancement relies on the exploitation of women. We are literally the punching bags of the universe. Isn't it lovely?

No! You see--we’re so important to the world! If we weren’t emotionally exploited, the world wouldn’t be the way it is now! :D

(kill me)

Anonymous said:

I once saw a tag on tumblr that read "The only good magical girl anime is Madoka Magica because it's gay, and even it has problems." Like, ugh. Really? Has this person not watched ANY other magical girl anime? Such ignorance. So many things wrong with that statement that I can't--and WON'T--even begin to unravel here.

MADOKA MAGICA IS NOT GAY AND I’M SO TIRED OF PEOPLE CLAIMING IT IS

s T O P

I DON’T EVEN CONSIDER YURI ON ICE TO BE GAY. MADOKA MAGICA? NAH MAN.

Anonymous said:

Do the girls in Madoka Magica even have transformation phrases? You know, like how Marinette says "Tikki, spots on!" or how Sailor Moon says "Moon Prism Power! Make-up!" or how Iris in LoliRock says "Iris! Princess of Ephedia!" etc. But in Madoka Magica, there doesn't seem to be any of that. At least in Yuki Yuna they pressed a button on their phones. But how do the Puellae Magi even transform? Just goes to show you how Gen Urobuchi knows next to nothing about the genre he claims to deconstruct.

Transformation phrases are magical and cool and you can’t take that away from me.

Anonymous said:

I had a shower thought about Madoka randomly in bed last night: If a Magical Girl's Soul Gem loses control over its user when 100 metres or further away from it, that meant that when Homura got Sayaka's Soul Gem back for her, Sayaka should've regained consciousness once Homura was less than 100 metres away, even if she didn't have her Soul Gem yet. I also love to ponder why on Earth Homura would even bother retrieving Sayaka's Soul Gem if she only cares about Madoka and Madoka's well-being.

I think it’s just a complicated process of Homura trying to make sure Madoka doesn’t fall into despair herself (in a non-witch way) and is convinced to make a wish.

Anonymous said:

The more I think about it, the more I realize that Sayaka really got the worst deal out of the whole thing. While her story may seem more "mundane" compared to the others(she just wanted the token Ill Boy osananajimi to like her back), she's the only one who somehow isn't brought back when Madoka recreates the universe, loses her Soul Gem on more than one account(and on the second, she starts decomposing and her crush sees her and calls her a monster because he thinks she's pretending to be the REAL Sayaka), is supposedly the weakest Magical Girl, getting swiftly taken out by both Kyoko AND Homura(the latter of which doesn't even make sense, if her body can heal why was she taken out so quickly?), takes a long while to show up in Magia Record, and Gen somehow finds it suiting to single her out as the one who is "destined to die" every time she makes a contract. Apparently the series director wanted Sayaka to live/be brought back, but Gen refused because it just had to be edgy.

Of course, MEN are allowed to have wish fulfillment power fantasies and dream like the sky's no limit and aspire to be all they want to be, but the second WOMEN try to be the strong ones, the powerful ones, or dream of something for themselves and others, they have to learn a lesson about how unrealistic their fantasies are and how they'll never live out their dreams. Hence why Sayaka puts the blame all on herself, saying that she's not a hero and was stupid and selfish the whole time.

"token Ill Boy osananajimi“ dfhbgjhfdgdfg

It was a real shame because I liked Sayaka somewhat (not saying much but still) and she was such a predictable one to go. Like, “oh wow, an angst-y anime all about shock value? so basically the best friend is dead then with no chance of survival.”

I think I do remember being told/reading somewhere (so don’t quote me) that Sayaka is the one that’s hardest to keep alive in the games, so you have to work hard for it. It just sucks.

Anonymous said:

Yet another thing that bothers me about Puella Magi is how the show frames the young ladies as if everything is their fault even though they have no idea what they're getting into because the person who makes the deal doesn't even bother explaining shit to them and all the show's attempts at deconstructing is just taking lighthearted elements meant to empower girls and show them that they can be brave and strong as well as feminine and make them dark and morbid.

Like, I get the whole "having young girls fight is a little unrealistic" aspect, but most magical girl shows actually do touch on that! Only difference is that over time, they become stronger and better at fighting(which is only to be expected, whether you're a teenage girl or not) and become more competent along the way because the whole genre is about FEMALE EMPOWERMENT.

Not to mention how the show seems to forget that the Incubators are villains and even seems to put them in the right and the girls in the wrong, what with the claim that they rationalize with the girls they make contracts with like sentient human beings(yeah, because emotionally manipulating young girls and literally taking their souls out of their bodies and making them liches without their consent is definitely treating them like sentient human beings), and that they always follow up on their end of the deal whereas it's the girls' faults their wishes go sour because they never wish for what they truly want(I'm sorry, but I simply DO NOT buy that. Homura and Mami outright wished for what they wanted. Their wishes went sour because the plot "decided" that they should have wished in a different way; plus, you're telling me that if Sayaka had outright said she wished "for Kyousuke to love her back" that the show wouldn't just "make" him mind-controlled or have Sayaka "outgrow" her feelings by the time he falls in love with her, all the while making it out to be "her" fault he's so heartbroken because she was some kind of tease or whatever, further demonizing girls' sexualities?).

Plus they explicitly claim that every woman in history was a magical girl and that without them, humanity would still be in caves(as in, humanity wouldn't be able to progress without the oppression and exploitation of women, and women can't gain power without going insane because female power is some unhealthy, inhuman, infernal thing.). Even if we take this all as a reflection of patriarchal society(which I highly doubt it was, if anything, it reinforces it), all it does is imply that the oppression of women is the natural order of things, required even.

As for the girls themselves, they routinely beat themselves up and the show makes no effort to tell them they're wrong(up until the massive cop-out of an ending), like how Sayaka's last words before becoming a witch are literally her "admitting" that she was "stupid, so stupid" for wanting a boy to love her and be healed of his infirmity. It just seems like we're supposed to think "you know, maybe the Incubators aren't that bad!" while ignoring that the girls are being treated like the disposable trash bags of the universe. This show already does the magical girl genre dirty but treating it like everything the Incubators did was necessary and like it's all the girls' faults these things happened to them in the first place is the icing on the stale, sour cake. Nothing like a giant heap of sexism to help get you through your day. :/

I’ve noticed this a lot in Miraculous, but Madoka Magica somehow does it worse; this “one (supposed) mistake leads to all of these consequences you never saw coming.”

Like Ladybug calling Lila out. We know that Lila’s pettiness in “Chameleon” shows that it wouldn’t matter whether Ladybug yelled at her or not; the simple fact that Marinette opposes a liar led to Marinette getting expelled, even if only for a while. Then there’s “Miracle Queen” and all that garbage that came with it.

These two shows put their teenage girls through hell for having emotions and there’s no way to undo it.

Anonymous said:

Honestly, the Madoka Magica fandom is basically the magical girl equivalent of "not like other girls" type women. I can't say I'd be surprised if they didn't watch a single magical girl show other than Madoka because they're all "stupid and girly but this one is edgy and dark" just because those shows are written by women to inspire other girls and show femininity as a strength while Madoka Magica is written by men for men who want to see young girls suffer without any actual feminism.

Like, let's go through their arguments one-by-one to prove that they don't hold up. They love to say that Madoka Magica is better than other Magical Girl shows because "it's dark and edgy and shows the downsides to being a Magical Girl unlike other shows where it's all sunshine and lollipops". First of all, other Magical girl shows also got very dark. Princess Tutu and Utena are also "darker" takes on the genre, but even more lighthearted shows like Sailor Moon and Precure had scary moments.

The only difference is, with them, they still managed to critique problematic aspects of the genre and actually provided ways to improve it, while STILL managing to keep their target audience(FEMALES) in mind, without condescending to them and infantilizing them. And they still showed the girls being empowered and overcoming the darkness.

In Madoka, there's none of that, there's no actual critique of the genre because Gen didn't have the respect for it to do his research, it's aimed at men so it doesn't keep female viewers in mind by definition(which is also another reason why it can't be a deconstruction; deconstructions should be done FOR its target audience), and the girls are constantly put down and treated like Moe crybabies by the narrative even when they're not(cause, you know, teenage girls are "emotional"!). And it doesn't offer ways the genre could improve, it just takes a female-empowering genre and twists it to be this system of oppression that the genre is meant to avoid.

Magical Girls tend to have a very strong focus on girls empowering girls and all that awesome stuff, and yet when Madoka and Mami form a special bond and Madoka encourages Mami by telling her she's not alone? It makes her big-headed and overconfident and she gets devoured by Charlotte. See what happens when girls rely on each other? Madoka is Sayaka's best friend, but gets pushed aside in favor of Kyoko, who later dies for Sayaka because girls who want to help each other had better be prepared to suffer and die for their beliefs. Sayaka loses everything, which happens to include her best friend, over a guy. And the whole witch process means that any female solidarity that could be found in the show is thrown out the window since the core concept of the show is girls being forced to brutalize and kill and exploit each other.

People act like Madoka is Yuri when it's not, Gen was asked if Homura really was in love with Madoka and if Kyoko really was in love with Sayaka, and what did he do? He beat around the bush. Naoko Takeuchi and Kunihiko Ikuhara(the latter of whom also worked on Sailor Moon R; woah, what a surprise) both admitted that there was gay love in their stories, yet people act like Madoka is super progressive regarding homosexuality when it's just implied and those shows were MUCH more open! Doesn't stop people from claiming the show is "honorary yuri" and saying that the meaning of "yuri" should be broadened to include any close bonds between two female characters, whether or not it's actually romantic, AND favoring the show(and HomuMado) above actual yuri shows that are made to appeal to women. If all this were actually valid, Sailor Moon would be yuri as hell.

I hate seeing people fap over this show and act like it's so revolutionary for recycling things that the genre was ALREADY DOING, because I know full well that the ONLY reason it gets this wide acclaim is because Magical Girl shows have traditionally been written for women and this show is aimed at men. That's literally it. Because nothing a woman writes is good enough, especially when it dares to go against patriarchal constructs of femininity as weak and docile by portraying it as cool and awesome. It doesn't matter how cool and dark and diverse and inclusive and complex Sailor Moon and Precure and Princess Tutu and Utena are, they're written by/for women with the intention of empowering them so they're automatically invalid, cheap, happy-go-lucky crap where nothing bad ever happens and anything those shows try to do ought to be discredited because they don't appeal to men like they should so what's the point?

But the second a MAN comes in and intrudes on a female-dominated space by doing all of those things but with a very shallow understanding of how they ought to be executed, people are all over it because a MAN did it and now it's interesting and respectable! I have seen so many people say that they don't like Magical Girl because it's girly and shallow and stupid, but then they praise Madoka for things that the girly and "shallow" shows have already done! Men are always taking away things meant for women and distorting it to fit their patriarchal views and yet when they do it it's somehow better and anyone who complains is simply a whiny straw feminist!

The fandom does it all the time, someone complains about the show and why they don't like it and find it sexist, and the response is always "you're just not smart enough to understand it; you have no idea what you just watched". Because obviously since it's made by a man it's sooo much smarter then the traditional sappy stuff made by women. That's why it's so annoying when others praise it at the expense of other works in the genre: they know their reasons for liking it are, more often than not, rooted in sexism against female-aimed and female-empowering works, so the only way they can praise it is at the expense of said works, hence them being just like girls who claim they're "not like other girls" when there's nothing wrong with girls being feminine and in fact many of those girls may like the same things you do!

So while I'm not saying there's anything inherently WRONG with liking Madoka, I DO have a problem with people who act like it's better or more serious than other shows in the genre and simply discard them on the grounds that they're "for girls", since they obviously didn't watch them.

me when I initially watched Madoka Magica: I don’t get why this exists.

me when I learned it was written by a man: ohhh, now I get it.

I also take issue with people comparing things that are made for different demographics. Like look, I don’t care if you enjoy your angst display over here, but also maybe don’t compare it to the stuff not even made for you unless you’re willing to get into a fight over it?

It comes off wrong, like they have to trash on stuff because it wasn’t made for them, y’know?

Anonymous said:

Honestly, I am so sick of people saying that Magical Girl shows are sexist or anti-feminist, when all they do is portray girls being awesome and powerful while also being feminine at the same time, because "Well in Japan it's actually gender conformity because it's telling girls they can only be strong if they're feminine! You're just projecting your Western values onto an Eastern work!".

First of all these shows are made by women for women and often have explicit feminine messages that you literally cannot miss unless you are simply blind or trying not to see them. And they also tend to have a very strong focus on women supporting or empowering other women. Just think of Sailor Moon, which constantly gets this "criticism", and yet there's an episode where the girls explicitly protest against a villain who claims women are all shallow and useless and can't do anything without men's help. Would Naoko Takeuchi put that in the show if she weren't a feminist?

And then there's the fact that she has said that one message she wanted the female leads to convey was to value their relationships between other girls because girls are strong and don't need to waste time depending on men. There's also the fact that most Magical Girl shows tend to treat the powers as something special and awesome that's unique to women and girls, paired with the coming-of-age themes present in the show, and you get a magical equivalent of female puberty, with magic mixed in.

But no, all of that gets thrown out the window because they dare to be "feminine" while doing all of that stuff and the Japanese are forcing their girls to be girly through Magical Girl propaganda. And I just HATE when people act like anything feminine must be societally forced onto girls, rather than girls just happening to like them. In addition, stating that they are simply reinforcing gender roles by being feminine is such bullshit because the whole purpose isn't about conforming to patriarchal femininity, it's about reclaiming femininity.

Too often, femininity is associated with being weak, powerless, helpless, submissive, docile, vapid, catty, bitchy, petty, vain, stupid, the list goes on. Magical Girl saves femininity from a bad reputation. It shows femininity in a new light, as something strong and powerful and, hell, even admirable! It's about telling girls "Hey, you can be strong and powerful and smart, but you don't have to be a tomboy or act like a man to do so". Girls are always told they have to act masculine to be taken seriously because the only way to be respected is to be like a man, which is an indirect way of saying that only men deserve respect.

Magical Girl does away with all that in favor of showing the feminine as something innately powerful, and yet naysayers MISS the point and say that it's just stereotyping girls instead. To see people claim that Magical Girl forces girls to fit a feminine ideal to be respected is just disappointing. It's supposed to be a female power fantasy for young girls that shows them as the ones being powerful and empowering each other.

Take how in Sailor Moon the heroine often says something along the lines of "I won't let you take advantage of girls", which Wedding Peach went on to imitate. The purpose of the genre is for girls. To empower girls. So why on earth would they show them fitting into a "male" mould of power? Do these people think that any time women are shown acting distinct from men that they are doing something wrong?

And the hypocritical part is that nobody pisses on male-oriented anime for reinforcing a harmful narrative to boys that they have to be masculine to be valued and respected. Of course they don't! Because being "masculine" is never seen as a bad thing to be. It's assumed that masculinity is always strong and good and awesome and there's nothing wrong with boys being forced to be masculine because you're supposed to want to be masculine. You're not supposed to want to be feminine.

So of course people will shit all over Magical Girl for embracing, empowering, and reclaiming femininity, because it's not supposed to be that way! You're not supposed to be feminine and also be strong. You're supposed to deny your identity as a woman and assimilate into the boys' club because only boy things are worthwhile! And they cover it up by saying that Magical Girl forces girls to be feminine, when in actuality the WORLD forces girls to be MASCULINE. Magical Girl doesn't force girls to be feminine, It ALLOWS them to. Do you see the difference there?

Another thing I'd like to bring to the table is that the claim is racist and here's why: The claim that "Magical Girl shows are seen as feminist in the US for portraying femininity as a source of strength but not in Japan because it's telling girls they have to be feminine"...what does that mean? Japanese people can't be feminist? All Japanese people are sexists and think girls have to fit in a certain role? Do Japanese feminists HAVE to be anti-femininity? Are there literally no Japanese people who think you can be feminine AND strong(who also obviously identify as feminists?) Because it seems hella sexist to insinuate that Magical Girl shows are sexist because they're made in Japan and they don't believe you can be feminine AND strong there.

While there is some credibility to it since Japan IS, by and large, much more strict with gender roles, hasn't it ever occurred to these people that these types of shows exist to counter that belief? Not only that, but it implies that people aren't allowed to have opinions on works that aren't made in their culture, and that anyone who sees those shows as feminist are just projecting their Western beliefs onto an Eastern work. And even worse, when people say that, they don't have the same opinion of Western Magical Girl works.

Just look at LoliRock, Miraculous Ladybug, Winx, W.I.T.C.H., Star vs the Forces of Evil, and countless other European/Western Magical Girl works. Where are the people saying "They get their power from femininity and that is sexist!"? Nowhere! They're silent! Even though those are very much like Magical Girl works from Japan(although I don't think the genre originated from there), while still being original.

It's because people think that any media exported from Japan is automatically sexist and demeaning and so anything they create, no matter how empowering their intentions, gets twisted into something that's somehow toxic or unsafe for girls to watch. But when Europeans do the exact same thing nobody complains. Because Japan is not allowed to do anything empowering whatsoever; something's always wrong with it, apparently.

So that's why I have a problem with people who say those things; it's so problematic because they think they're being all open-minded and aware/respectful of other people's cultures, but all they're doing is reinforcing negative stereotypes further. It's kinda like what I said earlier(in another ask) about how people love to praise Madoka Magica for being a unique, dark, and interesting take on the genre when all it did was rehash elements of the genre that already existed, strip away the female empowerment, and gear it towards grown men, which is why people like it more. How about instead of speaking for Japanese people you let them speak for themselves?!

I would also like to add that there’s even a limit to women acting masculine because that’s still “not enough” for those kinda of men who would promote those beliefs. Women need to act more masculine to “be taken seriously” but then you have men who’ll tell them to “dress less” or whatever.

I think what it comes down to is that they want women to not be “emotionally taxing” with all those dAmN eMoTioNs of theirs (unless it’s for the sake of their angsty magical girl anime where the girls suffer for having emotions), but they also need to look pretty and be sexualized.

We can’t win.