#the one thing you must recall
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sapphireicecream · 1 year ago
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Please live up to your slogan @cheritzteam 💔
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smol-grey-tea · 3 months ago
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youtube
Guys I made a YouTube video. It's really really not perfect, there's a fair few audio errors and I'm fairly certain you can hear the notification sound of @natsuneages messaging the Cheritz Discord at some point. But I made it.. You'll love it, right? :3
I couldn’t have done it without my friends ^^ @cherrychipheart @annbourbon @zealousfanprunewolf @tetru @kusukixcrystal
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annbourbon · 2 months ago
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Cheritzverse Timeline~
* This is only to show the dates and the way all this is linked (the information is already established through these games, so I'm only keeping track of what they say but not if the game is in a different Timeline, or Space, for more on this topic please check out my Beyond The Planets post.
If anyone has different ideas, is welcomed to share those by reblogging it. Screenshots and evidence will be necessary to be credited.
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2006 -
2008 ~ Before Dandelion Events
♡ Heejung moves from Seoul to Busan
2009
2010 ~ Beginnings of Mint Eye
♡ Sally (Rika's dog) dies here or beginnings of 2011
♡ During June's Route (set around 2013) is said the RFA is still a work in progress. But we know Mint Eye started before. While this is a little theory I have... what if Mint Eye starts when you're dating Zen (remember Rika was a fan of Zen? Just saying~)
♡ It's usually said that the first years of any kind of project are hard~ and we see Mint Eye believers starting to gather power throughout The Ssum. Which is why I have settled Mint Eye beginnings around this time. Still need to decide the actual date though.
♡ Check the first year of Mystic Messenger Timeline. Come back.
♡ Possible beginnings of 2011 or lasts months of 2010 but the Dr Cus was kidnapped. According to JJ, 2 years before~ although considering Henri's timeline, it's not necessarily here. But from here till the end of 2011 at least. If you can find more clues~ it'd be very helpful. You're gonna be credited ofc.
2011 ~ 2013: The Ssum & Nameless (In Between)
* I believe The Ssum events start a bit before The Ssum.
2011
♡ It is said during Mystic Messenger that Zen has been without a girlfriend for 5 years. And to add to it: The Ssum (Teo route) says that Zen was your ex boyfriend.
If we take Mystic Messenger and The Ssum work together, Zen definitely was our ex boyfriend before Mystic Messenger. For those who don't understand why he doesn't remember us, it's implied during Epiphany (Zen's DLC, April Fools Day) that he was trapped inside.
Then several chat rooms and calls during Casual and Deep Story suggest that Zen does remember but only certain parts and that he only remembers everything by the time MC has picked a LI which makes it impossible for him to butt in, so instead he tries to steer things in the right direction for us to have a happy ending. An example of this~ a call with Zen before things started to get serious with Jumin, said that he dreamt of us being trapped inside a cage.
♡ Possible beginnings of 2011 or lasts months of 2010 but the Dr Cus was kidnapped. According to JJ, 2 years before~ although considering Henri's timeline, it's not necessarily here. But from here till the end of 2011 at least. If you can find more clues~ it'd be very helpful. You're gonna be credited ofc.
2011 ~ 2012 Dandelion Events
♡ Heejung's father escaped with an artist, and young woman. Dandelion.
♡ Rika meets V.
♡ Unsure if it's during 2011 or 2012 but~ Rika and V engagement.
♡ Nameless Events
2013 ~ The Ssum Events
Check The Ssum Timeline
♡ Jaehee barely started to work for Jumin during this TL (2013, around June or July) and Elizabeth the 3rd escaped for Teo to take care of her during one day. I believe that even though it's implied that Jumin Han was the owner, he was not yet officially the owner of the cat.
Theory: However, the more I think about these events, this escape seems to be part of some training Elizabeth the 3rd received from part of Mint Eye. I saw a post here on Tumblr (wish I could find it) saying that Elizabeth the 3rd might have been abducted and lured with a whistle. But what if in addition to that, she was trained too? While it's difficult to train cats, it's not entirely impossible. I think part of it also explains why she was so easy to capture if she bonded with Saeran and Rika first.
* Teo Route starts at least some months or weeks before we see Jaehee, this settles the story beginnings of 2013. Remember Jaehee said she had been working for Jumin 2 years and a half in 2016. For continuity issues, I would settle Teo Route around November or December 2012 and Jaehee something around beginnings of 2013, giving enough time to Harry's route. June and Henri need to be play together:
Teo entire route [beginnings of 2013]
Harry till day 200 [2013 till 2014]
June season 1 (30 days) ~ Harry Day 230
Henri s1 and June s2 ft. Harry Day 260
*There might be a time where you're dating Teo and Harry at the same time, even the options suggest it as a choice. This can be why the Angel confronts you about it.
♡ Mint Eye makes several attempts to drag Teo.
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^^;; please don't mind my wall~ i'm painting behind and that's why it looks a bit weird. Now let's make a close up~
♡ During June's Route (set around 2013) is said the RFA is still a work in progress. But we know Mint Eye started before.
Yes. I put the same text twice. It helps to create an idea of when things are happening.
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♡ Slightly mentioning Unicorn Drugs because I'm working on tracking the drugs they give to us or to the LIs.
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Theories on why probably June's wasn't mentioned before:
1. His condition and S.Korean society around these topics. Best example of this? Rika and Saeran. Not confirmed but implied during June's Route, when he goes to the wedding.
2. Possible death.
3. On a more cheerful note, he probably is still alive but people don't talk about him because of how that affects Jumin Han and Chairman Han reputation. And of course, the C&R. Confirmed: June is an illegitimate son. Carolyn had it out of wedlock, had an affair with June's dad. And went to Chairman Han to ask for help. The nerve of this woman 😳
Take it with grain of salt but ^^;; June's father was a singer?
♡ Heejung's father escaped with an artist, and young woman. Dandelion.
♡ Carolyn (Jumin's and June's mom) was said to be an artist, singer? She had an affair with June's father, abandoned Jumin's and Chairman Han, tried to make June look like he was Chairman's son but ended up divorcing him and marrying June's dad. The Ssum.
In the end I don't think any of these events are mutually exclusive but inclusive. And if things don't make sense yet, don't worry, I'm covering a relationship chart soon~
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So, Harry knows Seven. June and Jumin are half-brothers. June and Henri know each other. Henri hates Jumin but works for him lol and Henri's dad works for Chairman Han. Yeah all this is connected in a way or another.
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To understand why I'm talking about Another Story as Part 1 and Part 2~ you guys need to check out my Mystic Messenger TL.
BTW~ I'm suspecting a connection between Harry (since his parents are basically bullies and kind of gangsta and laundering money through art~) V, Jumin and Rika. All through The Muse collection.
Like I said to @cherrychipheart once, looking at the background of Dandelion, I could see some V pictures behind the gallery where Heejung works. So this is a personal theory I have but~ I believe that The Ssum is the story of MC before disappearing, cause she's being captured for Mint Eye. TBH after playing Dandelion I have trust issues with every character within the Cheritzverse lol
And I have yet to finish it ╥﹏╥
There's a full moon behind Saeran and MC pic too~
How come the Angel has chosen the moon as his symbol? And why Harry placed a moon on his profile picture right after we broke up? Does anyone remembers the Angel call before that day? He was basically calling us and being all scary in a similar style to Unknown. Does any of this sounds more like The Wizard than Unknown? Because it does to me. But that's for another topic. Yes, I'm already onto "The Angel" and working full time on it.
2016 ~ Mystic Messenger Timeline
♡ 2016 includes Casual and Deep as whole. But remember the events in Jumin's trigger Saeran's AE and Saeyoung's route too. That proposal to MC was too public for the twins.
* Because of time travel, Mystic Messenger is a non linear story, which means you need to pick upon clues here and there to understand where the timeline goes. The other games have a similar issue but not as pronounced as this.
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*Notes: I already ran out of space for images so if any other thing or piece of information is dropped, I'll create a second part, however this should cover the basics. Also, if additional info comes up~ i'll update it!
Other Notes:
♡ Harry and Teo Spoilers
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khashanakalashtar · 2 years ago
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tan-po-po-chan · 1 year ago
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텀블러 개설 요청이 있어서 만들었습니다. 텀블러에서도 잘 부탁합니다!
I made it because there was a request to post the work on the tumbler.
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natsuneages · 6 months ago
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I have a big urge to scream when I see Cheritz posting only Ssum and Mysme as cover
WHERE IS NAMELESS AND DANDELION, CHERITZ?!!?
PLEASE, PUT THEM ON SWITCH OR MOBILE!! MY PC BROKE ;-;
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dirt-str1der · 5 months ago
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Im super charmed whenever they include tsukasas corpse inside the freezer its so funny to me ... that man is not in cryostasis he is straight up dead
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moonlit-sweet-dreams · 3 months ago
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Giving Away Keychains
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Hi! I was decluttering my craft corner today (Halloween is soon approaching!!) and I still have a lot of left over keychains and prints from my Nameless lineup from... 2 years. Time flies I guess!
Anyways, I was curious if anyone would be interested in receiving any of these for just the shipping price. So, all you would have to pay is shipping. I was just going to throw them out otherwise, so I figured I may as well ask before I just dumped them all out! Here are some examples from the listing forever ago for reference.
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If you're interested, please message me, I think I'll keep this up for maybe a week! I only have one of the carousel print, but everything else I have multiples of.
If you want the lance sticker by the way, I can print some out to add to a package! These are all under my old pen name too, just a heads-up.
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cheritzheadcanonz · 6 months ago
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Yeon ho was interested on video games but he found the ones Red played were too violent. He really likes Animal Crossing tho
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"Yeon ho was interested on video games but he found the ones Red played were too violent. He really likes Animal Crossing tho"
WHY YOU GUYS NEED TO BE SO SPECIFIC?!
I love all your creativity tho. sz
I don't plan to draw more, but I love Yeonho. I wish Cheritzverse fandom was more alive TwT
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lbhslefttiddie · 2 years ago
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then and now
#svsss#arts#backlog#shen yuan#shen jiu#luo binghe#you may be thinking: hey is that yqy over there? yes#why does he look like a salaryman?? because yqy is a sims 2 character trapped in the vessel of a student council president. next question#hey levanna what the fuck is going on here?? you know what. not even im 100% on that one chief#i had some vague notions about a murder mystery featuring a lbh who could see ghosts#and the ghost of a boy who has been stuck in his old friends' haunt (lol) for oh i dont know. thirty years#but see the thing is that sy doesnt know why he's here either!#he doesnt even remember dying but. well. he was always a sickly kid. he cant say hes surprised he suddenly kicked it#honestly it was such a mundane occurrence for him it must have been too boring to recall#but lbh spends time with yuan gege and pretty quickly comes to the realization that this is NOT the case#he finds like an old new article and in reality sy was found murdered in this place 30 years ago#and its much for likely that the trauma of the event is why he cant remember his death at all#oh and there was gonna be some drama where lbh suspects sy's now much older twin#who is now a teacher at their old school and a very different person from what sy remembers#but it wasnt sj he's just fucking traumatized by his brother being murdered in what theyd considered their safe place#he hates this school and he hates qi ge who never Really talks to him but is still fucking HERE (also teacher)#but he cant leave either bc he cant let go#and part fo him is still hoping to find answers for what happened back then#anyways i think this premise is all very good and sexy#but levanna's brain frankly was not built for writing murder mysteries#free to a good home if any of you fuckers want it#death#murder
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cherrychipheart · 3 months ago
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We're back!
After a whole year and a bit, I've decided the blog should be kept up~
Also, a small confession...
....
...
..
.
I've never actually played Dandelion AND Nameless myself this whole time until now 🤪 (was a bit young and didn't have the means to purchase them if there were walkthroughs I could just refer to on Youtube haha). Just bought Dandelion a month ago and have just finished Jiwoo's route + bad end and now on Jiyeon's route~
Therefore, I'm thinking of streaming gameplay on this discord server down below:
So everyone and anyone is free to join! I'm planning on streaming from 6-9am Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday in GST, so hope to see some of you there and enjoy watching and playing Dandelion with me 🥰
-cherrychipheart
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cat-meg · 1 year ago
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Using these otome-themed Inktober prompts:
Skipping day 6 and doing two 7s because not feeling MCs.
Day 7 6: Fresh Memory. - The last otome game you played.
Currently playing Lance's route in Nameless. ♡
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smol-grey-tea · 1 year ago
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Can you explain more on who Angel is? I don't know much about Ssum.
Hello Anon!!! I'm not the most knowledgeable on Ssum either 🤔ᴴᴹ but your local Cheritz enthusiast is on the case!! Here's what I know!! ^^
Angel is not actually called Angel but 1004!! The number translates to that name in Korean, which is why we call him Angel. He is a most mysterious fellow who has, to my knowledge, only appeared twice in Harry's route, changing the chatroom's background to a series of ones and zeroes, similar to how Unknown did in the MM prologue
Angel's role in Ssum involved being able to hack somehow into the chatroom and offer the player the option to either view a good future of Harry or a bad one. In Angel's second appearance, I believe he only gave a bad future?
This is all I can gather about Angel in regards to the Ssum. In regards to Cheritz's other games though....
I've gathered that, first of all, Angel's way of speaking seems to resemble Seven's? It might be possible that Angel is Seven, considering:
The aforementioned similarities in speech
Seven's 1st appearance in MM after the prologue is a chatroom at 10:04
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Hacking the app
Having a number as a name
And this is only a theory (though a very strong one) but Seven is most likely a Wizard, and Angel possesses the power to show the player the future, something that probably wouldn't be possible for a normal person
Also the fact that we already know that MM and Ssum take place within the same universe/pocket dimension
Idk if Angel is Seven idk. But it seems way too similar to not at least be a reference to Seven
The references to Angel don't stop at MM tho. The number 1004 is seen in Nameless at least once
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1004. The main character's address. The rest of the address lines are references to both Cheritz and Crobidoll, which leads me to suspect that the number 8282 might also have significance somewhere else, altho idk where I'd look to find that out
Idk if there are any Angel references in Dandelion ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Ummmm but that's all I know. Idk if Angel is Seven, it seems quite likely, but if the person in the teaser Cheritz showed is Angel, I don't think the face looks like Seven tbh. Different face shape. Tho I kinda agree with ppl about the use of the character wearing a cloak similar to those worn by Mint Eye followers. That's an interesting addition
There may be other ppl who are a bit more qualified to answer this ask than me idk. When I'm browsing on Tumblr, I only check out the Cheritz tag and Nameless The One Thing You Must Recall tag so I only looked at The Ssum tag today to do a bit more research on this.. I've never even played Harry's route and I was playing June's but recently uninstalled the game again because, even with June, it's still god damn boring and I hate the gameplay of it
I will reblog the posts I used to research this immediately after posting this tho. But. There's this one really good post I saw where I first learned about Angel and I can't find it for the god damn life of me. I believe it's on @natsuneages blog and the title is Cheritz Boys with Red Eyes Have Powers, and @zealousfanprunewolf commented on it about Angel but I can't god damn find it guys aaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!
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annbourbon · 29 days ago
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Relationship Chart
This time I'm bringing something much needed for all those who play inside the Cheritzverse. A relationship chart with explanations included.
Some of these are things that are included in a single line sometimes in a different game or a thing that apparently holds no connection but it does have one. It took me some time to find these and there are so many that I'm gonna create several posts explaining these with proof/screenshots included if the collages are not enough. But for now~ the basics.
Remember that this might contain spoilers from all the games: Dandelion, Nameless, Mystic Messenger & The Ssum.
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So before we enter this whole mess, one of the things that has been incredibly helpful to do this~ Inheritors K-Drama. But not just that, also The Burning Sun Case, The Tragedy of the Sewol Ferry. Among other things. They all have been put in the links, they have nothing to do with this Relationship Chart however they do help to understand how sometimes the S.Korean society works. I will not quote in them in detail because I need the space to work on the relationship chart. They might get a little mention though. But if you go to those and watch them all, you're gonna find similarities. Thank you for your understanding.
C&R Group:
Han Family
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* Juyoung Han. Also known as Chairman Han. CEO of C&R Group. Has been married at least 3 or 4 times. According to Jumin, most of these times have been with artists. However has had several affairs with Jumin's secretaries and even with his own secretaries.
For example: Lily Vanderwoodsen in Gossip Girl has also several marriages in her past.
Other notes: Chairman Seo plays golf with Chairman Han. I'm not entirely sure of how this connects but when I asked about Dr Cheon and other things inside The Ssum, PiuPiu said that I'm good at remembering insignificant details. So it does hold some meaning behind. As I put inside the relationship chart~ I believe Chairman Seo, Chairman Han and possibly Dr Cheon's father, hang all together when they play golf.
This goes mentioned during Mystic Messenger (Jumin's Route) and The Ssum (Henri's, June's & Harry's)
* Carolyn. Divorced from Chairman Han. Had a son: Jumin. Her second marriage was with Hyunsik. Had a son: June.
Other notes: Was a singer. Possibly the reason Heejung's father cheated on. Although that we know~ she has no daughters. It's possible that she just had an affair without getting pregnant here. Owns:
※ Carolyn's House (seen in Jumin's DLC)
* Jumin Han
Jumin Han owns:
※ Jumin's Island (Seen in June's, Henri's during The Ssum, and Ray's/Saeran's during Another Story in Mystic Messenger)
※ An entire building that bought to his father.
※ At least one yatch!?
※ An helicopter
※ A private jet
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※ Cherry Farm Healing Center. Hospital?
Seems, although not fully clear if, the Cherry Farm Healing Center is not an hospital. But it does operates as part of something else. A mix of winery, center to heal people and relax old and rich people. Jumin goes there often to relax and takes Elizabeth the 3rd with him.
I can't put it here exactly in images (already out of space~) so here:
Henri's Grandfather
↓ ↓
Julia --- Henri's Dad Uncle Tony <♡> Aunt
* Henri's brother
* Henri
*It's said that Henri's dad works for Chairman Han as a personal doctor. While Uncle Tony inherited everything, including the hospital. "Runs a large scale general hospital"
* Henri's Aunt has vetoed Julia on The Church Comitee, as she is the one in charge.
* I need to pay more attention to this next time I read Rika DLC but it seems Rika adoptive parents were also similar to Henri's: Her mother worked in the church comittee (?) and it's ssaid that Yoosung's uncle (Rika's adoptive father) was someone important in the hospital and the couple were really wealthy. Which means Yoosung would be in a similar position to Henri's or somewhat lower but not entirely jobless, without money or without connections.
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JC Group:
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* Minha, implied to be heiress of the JC. Has a brother. Who is gonna inherit everything.
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OO Foundation:
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* Art Gallery (Owned by Harry, his mom controlled it until Day 221 or 222 of The Ssum when it's said she doesn't controls it anymore and it's separating from Harry's father.)
* It's said Harry is a VVVIP. Which implies it's on a similar situation to Jumin's. But unlinke Jumin, he doesn't bother with such responsibilities. A true chaebol.
* Harry owns at least the apartment, the house he created for MC. And The Gallery. That we know of course, but it's implied much more. No wonder he remains under the mask.
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Yuhan Corporation
※ James Yuhan (heir)
※ Dr. Terry Cheon. Engaged with Harry. Owns 20% of company stocks.
※ Mother of Dr. Terry Cheon, Executive of Yuhan's Corp.
♡ M. Hospital
※ Father of Dr. Terry Cheon, Dean of the M. Hospital.
☆ Something that stuck in my head was Rachel's words in the k-drama Inheritors/The Heirs. She says that these type of arrangements, I mean~ these marriages are basically a fusion of the companies and that there are millions involved so it's not that easy to get out of these, which can explain the pressure on Harry, Terry and the rest of people.
Which reminds me of how in June's and Henri's routes, Carolyn keeps trying to make a good arrangement for Jumin. Only for him to marry MC♡ so cute!! ».«
Also explains why V's father and Chairman Han were saying that Rika was not good for V. (let's put aside the cult lolol cause they didn't know?)
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* Family of artists. From Nameless and Mystic Messenger. V's mom was a violinist. V's is a businessman who apparently first was said to be an artist (?) Remarried after his first wife passed.
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The Agency
* Vanderwood
* The Boss? ~ I doubt this is the final boss. Look at Quantico series or any other spy/intelligence series. It's definitely Seven's boss but not The Boss
* JJ ~ although it's not said here, Seven mentioned a couple of times that he (Seven) has a lot of wigs and stuff for cosplay/spy missions. If this is added to tge fact that JJ says to be a hairdresser, using some weird spray for dying June's hair, the several lies, fake file, and suspicious gadgets that interfere with PiuPiu. We can say that he is from The Agency, he is aware of aliens, and of The Ssum Project. PiuPiu doesn't like JJ.
Saeyoung Choi ~ Alias Seven. Luciel Choi. Made contact with aliens.
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The Lab
* PiuPiu ~ Funnily enough, all LI have expressed their discontent and distrust towards PiuPiu more than once.
* PiuPiu ver1 ~ during Harry's route. After PiuPiu gets sick.
* PiPi ~ suspected of going to Seven.
Edited. Thanks to @thessumbluebirdnotes for the input here:
PiPi could go to Teo and not Seven. The Cancer 199.207.07 it's Teo's Zodiac Sign and B-Day. PiPi left on D-99 (Harry's Route)
Teo's B-Day: July 07, 1992.
If you check D-99 of Teo's Route, his phone starts acting up. And there was a pink feather logo that shows up when he takes a selfie. A possible sign of his PiuPiu coming~
* Dr Cus Monsier ~ Apparently kidnapped. According to JJ during Henri's route. During a chatroom Jumin says he was creating a machine to make people forget their memories. Seven says that he was creating a time machine. Seems these two events hold some connection towards JJ and Dr Cus Monsier but so far it's all speculations.
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Church Group
The members so far are mostly unknown. However we can guess much thanks to several characters.
The only official member known:
※ Henri's Aunt. The Ssum.
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※ Rika; during her DLC (possibility)
Other possible members:
※ Rika's adoptive mom. (implied during Rika's DLC), also, holds a connection and a similar pattern to Henri's uncle. In this case by Yoosung's uncle being connected to the hospital.
☆ One thing that helped me a lot here was The Gilded Age. Though it's not Korean, it's not really different from tge way other societies behave, banning members and doing each other this kind of stuff~ otherwise it wouldn't be so depicted in different cultures, right?
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Ladies Community
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The name is not said, however it's deeply implied that only the top of the top can be inside.
Possible name: Business Women Who Lead the Future?
* Julia (Henri's mom) → shunned
* Eloise's mom
* Carolyn (Jumin's mom) → shunned
It's said Minha's mom doesn't bother with these things. But apparently Juyuong Han does. So MC would be expected to step into this too. Even more after Carolyn falls down. Henri calls it a jungle.
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Mint Eye
※ Rika (Saviour)
※ Saeran/Unknown/Ray/404
※ V (Believer number: )
※ Believer Number ~ helps V
※ Believer Number C276 ~ possibly Teo? It is said that Rika was personally assisting the ceremony to make this believer part of Mint Eye. And deeply implied that it's not something that usually happens.
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Notes: This is a work in progress.
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Credits:
♡ @thessumbluebirdnotes
♡ @cherrychipheart
♡ @smol-grey-tea
♡ Original Sources: The Ssum, Mystic Messenger, Dandelion: Wishes Brought to You, Nameless: The one thing you must recall.
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Links:
♡ Harry's Character (Wiki)
♡ Cheritzverse Society through Art & Medicine
♡ The Burning Sun: (directs to YT)
*TW. Discretion advised.*
[Rotten Mango ~ Part One]
[Rotten Mango ~ Part Two]
[Rotten Mango ~ Part Three]
[BBC Documentary]
[Rotten Mango ~ Sewol Ferry]
* I didn't put it here as links cause it would take me forever to gather everything but another perfect example is how the case of P.Diddy, relates to Epstain, Woody Allen, Ghislaine Maxwell, Prince Andrew and Harvey Weinstein cases. In these circles is more possible that everything connects in one way or another.
♡ The Heirs
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longagoitwastuesday · 6 months ago
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So so indebted to u for posting those lovely illustrations from Cyrano <333 & even more so for yr tags!! I'm completely in love w yr analysis, please feel free to ramble as long as u wish! Browsing through yr Cyrano de Bergerac tag has given me glimpses of so many adaptations & translations I'd never heard of before! I'll be watching the Solès version next, which I have only discovered today through u ^_^ As for translations, have u read many/all of them? I've only encountered the Renauld & Burgess translations in the wild, & I was curious to hear yr translation thoughts that they might guide my decision on which one I buy first (not necessarily Renauld or Burgess ofc). Have a splendid day & sorry for the likespam! 💙
Sorry for the delay. Don't mind the likespam, I'm glad you enjoyed my tags about Cyrano, and that they could contribute a bit to a further appreciation of the play. I loved it a lot, I got obsessed with it for months. It's always nice to know other people deeply love too that which is loved haha I hope you enjoy the Solès version, it may well be my favourite one!
About translations, I'm touched you're asking me, but I don't really know whether mine is the best opinion to ask. I have read... four or five English translations iirc, the ones I could find online, and I do (and especially did, back when I was reading them) have a lot of opinions about them. However, nor English nor French are my first languages (they are third and fourth respectively, so not even close). I just read and compare translations because that's one of my favourite things to do.
The fact is that no translation is perfect, of course. I barely remember Renauld's, but I think it was quite literal; that's good for understanding the basics of the text, concepts and characters, but form is subject, and there's always something that escapes too literal translations. Thomas and Guillemard's if I recall correctly is similar to Hooker's in cadence. It had some beautiful fragments, some I preferred over Hooker's, but overall I think to recall I liked Hooker's more. If memory serves, Hooker's was the most traditionally poetic and beautiful in my opinion. Burgess' is a whole different thing, with its perks and drawbacks.
Something noticeable in the other translations is that they are too... "epic". They do well the poetic, sorrowful, grief stricken, crushed by regrets aspects of Cyrano and the play in general, but they fall quite short in the funny and even pathetic aspects, and that too is key in Cyrano, both character and play. Given the characteristics of both languages, following the cadence of the French too literally, with those long verses, makes an English version sound far too solemn at times when the French text isn't. Thus Burgess changes the very cadence of the text, adapting it more to the English language. This translation is the one that best sets the different moods in the play, and as I said before form is subject, and that too is key: after all, the poetic aspect of Cyrano is as much true as his angry facet and his goofy one. If Cyrano isn't funny he isn't Cyrano, just as he wouldn't be Cyrano without his devotion to Roxane or his insecurities; Cyrano is who he is precisely because he has all these facets, because one side covers the other, because one trait is born from another, because one facet is used as weapon to protect the others, like a game of mirrors and smoke. We see them at different points through the play, often converging. Burgess' enhances that. He plays with the language itself in form and musicality, with words and absences, with truths masking other truths, with things stated but untold, much like Cyrano does. And the stage directions, poetic and with literary value in their own right in a way that reminded me of Valle Inclán and Oscar Wilde, interact with the text at times in an almost metatextual dimension that enhances that bond Cyrano has with words, giving them a sort of liminal air and strengthening that constant in the play: that words both conceal and unveil Cyrano, that in words he hides and words give him away.
But not all is good, at all. Unlike Hooker, Burgess reads to me as not entirely understanding every facet of the characters, and as if he didn't even like the play all that much, as if he had a bit of a disdainful attitude towards it, and found it too mushy. Which I can understand, but then why do you translate it? In my opinion the Burgess' translation does well bending English to transmit the different moods the French text does, and does pretty well understanding the more solemn, cool, funny, angry, poetic aspects of Cyrano, but less so his devotion, vulnerability, insecurities and his pathetism. It doesn't seem to get Roxane at all, how similar she is to Cyrano, nor why she has so many admirers. It does a very poor job at understanding Christian and his value, and writes him off as stupid imo. While I enjoyed the language aspect of the Burgess translation, I remember being quite angry at certain points reading it because of what it did to the characters and some changes he introduces. I think he did something very questionable with Le Bret and Castel-Jaloux, and I remember being incensed because of Roxane at times (for instance, she doesn't go to Arras in his version, which is a key scene to show just how much fire Roxane has, and that establishes several parallels with Cyrano, in attitude and words, but even in act since she does a bit what Cyrano later does with the nuns in the last act), and being very angry at several choices about Christian too. While not explicitly stated, I think the McAvoy production and the musical both follow this translation, because they too introduce these changes, and they make Christian as a character, and to an extent the entire play, not make sense.
For instance, once such change is that Christian is afraid that Roxane will be cultured (McAvoy's version has that infamous "shit"/"fuck" that I detest), when in the original French it's literally the opposite. He is not afraid she will be cultured, he is afraid she won't, because he does love and appreciate and admires those aspects of her, as he appreciates and admires them in Cyrano. That's key! Just as Cyrano longs to have what Christian has, Christian wants the same! That words escape him doesn't mean he doesn't understand or appreciate them. The dynamics make no sense without this aspect, and Burgess (and the productions that directly or indirectly follow him) constantly erases this core trait of Christian.
Another key moment of Christian Burgess butchers is the scene in Arras in which Christian discovers the truth. Burgess writes their discussion masterfully in form, it's both funny and poignant, but it falls short in concept: when Cyrano tells him the whole discussion about who does Roxane love and what will happen, what they'll do, is academic because they're both going to die, Christian states that dying is his role now. This destroys entirely the thing with Christian wanting Roxane to have the right to know, and the freedom to choose, or to refuse them both. As much as Cyrano proclaims his love for truth and not mincing words even in the face of authority, Cyrano is constantly drunk on lies and mirages, masks and metaphors. It's Christian who wants it all to end, the one who wants real things, the one who wants to risk his own happiness for the chance of his friend's, as well as for the woman he loves to stop living in a lie. That is a very interesting aspect of Christian, and another aspect in which he is written as both paralleling and contrasting Cyrano. It's interesting from a moral perspective and how that works with the characters, but it's also interesting from a conceptual point of view, both in text and metatextually: what they hold most dear, what they most want, what most fulfills them, what they most fear, their different approaches to life, but also metatextually another instance of that tears/blood motif and its ramifications constant through the whole text. Erasing that climatic decision and making him just simply suicidal erases those aspects of Christian and his place in the Christian/Cyrano/Roxane dynamic, all for plain superficial angst, that perhaps hits more in the moment, but holds less meaning.
Being more literal, and more solemn, Hooker's translation (or any of the others, but Hooker's seems to love the characters and understand them) doesn't make these conceptual mistakes. Now, would I not recommend reading Burgess' translation? I can't also say that. I had a lot of fun reading it, despite the occasional anger and indignation haha Would I recommend buying it? I recommend you give an eye to it first, if you're tempted and can initially only buy one.
You can read Burgess' translation entirely in archive.com. You can also find online the complete translations of Renauld, Hooker and Thomas and Guillemard. I also found a fifth one, iirc, but I can't recall it right now (I could give a look). You could read them before choosing, or read your favourite scenes and fragments in the different translations, and choose the one in which you like them better. That's often what I do.
Edit: I've checked to make sure and Roxane does appear in Arras in the translation. It's in the introduction in which it is stated that she doesn't appear in the production for which the translation was made. The conceptualisation of Roxane I criticise and that in my opinion is constant through the text does stay, though.
#I have a lot of opinions about translations in general tbh but this is not a semi clear case like in Crime and Punishment#in which there's one detail that a translation must do for me to recommend it (it used to be the one but now in English several do it)#I wouldn't recommend Burgess as a first approach to the play‚ but having already read the play and knowing the text and characters#and how Burgess may modify it‚ then I wouldn't not recommend it because it is the best in form in many aspects#And while he fails in direct concept‚so to speak‚ form is particularly important in this play and in conveying concept and characterisatio#So idk personal taste is it I guess? Again I am not an English or French native#I vehemently recommend reading the play in French if you can and haven't done so already#Even best if you want a translation to read the translation alongside the French text#to see how the translation bends the play in form and subject#Anyway... Sorry for the long delay and the too long reply. I always end up talking too much#Oh by the way I think I saw you talk about the blood/tears motif in the act IV in some tags? It's not just act IV#The tears/soul motif is repeated through the entire text linked to Cyrano and is opposed to the body of Christian#That's why the culmination in the last act and the tears in the fourth hit so much#Like the constant of Cyrano being linked to the moon and the darkness while Roxane is the sun and the light#And also I would argue the 'pearled perfection of her smile' is not an unidentifiable trait or intangible#It's poetic and metaphoric but it's a description of her teeth. Small‚ straight‚ white. Perfect teeth. That wasn't so common back then#It's quite common in classic literature to find poetic references of good teeth spoken of in these terms#Anyway...#I hope you'll find some use in this that would make the insufferable wall of text worth some of the time at least#After all time spent is a little death. I would have hated to kill a fragment of you for nothing haha#Cyrano de Bergerac#Did I tag asks? I usually delete them after a while so I think I didn't? I never recall#I talk too much#That will suffice#Hmmm it's useless in any case. I think I've talked for over twenty tags before tagging that#A wall of text and somehow I ramble in the tags nonetheless ugh#I will reread this in a bit to see if it's coherent enough. The little screen of the phone always makes me lose track of things when I writ
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tan-po-po-chan · 1 year ago
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Red&O.C
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