#the hypocrisy in this fandom is real

[whateverthedragonswant]

It amazes me that every single day on this hellsite Destiel shippers are told that they're misreading certain scenes between Dean and Cas in the show but when it comes to genuine brotherly/familial moments between Dean and Sam like the barn scene in the finale, it's okay for Wincest shippers to misinterpret Dean telling Sam to tell him it's okay (meaning to leave) as Sam was telling Dean it was okay with him and Dean being in a romantic and sexual relationship the last 15 years? That never happened? Really?

[wesleysniperking]

It amazes me how much Zoro fans are willing to defend Zoro’s “6-month long” fight with Lucci. Whereas when it comes to Usopp’s “10 years of uselessness” they’re just quick to not consider that not much time has actually passed in the OP world. So, I guess Zoro’s given more grace since he’s the second main character of One Piece. And the “not much time has passed in the OP world” reasoning is only justifiable when it comes to him.

Got it.

[windsweptinred]

....

[stellarlex]

The sheer hypocrisy of Marinette salters who are Feligami shippers is absolutely baffling to me.

Every false thing they say about Marinette being a stalker and a bully and all that crap, is literally what is happening with Felix and how he treats Kagami.

Ima need y’all to keep that same energy because at this point the hate for Marinette is childish and is smelling a bit racist to me.

[whatever-you-can-give-me]

Sorry to come to your inbox for this but I feel like you’d understand

As an Asian person living in the West, I’m aware of the different kinds of colorism in different cultures

I’m really tired of seeing people saying canon Wolfwoods are not dark enough for them. Yes there are variations in his coloring but in no iteration they made Wolfwood white (no, not even in BLR)

Not to mention other characters also have variations in their color design. Nightow’s Vash color pages are inconsistent too; sometimes he’s much darker

There’s a lot to unpack here that I don’t feel coherent enough to even begin

thank you for sending this, i really appreciate it. i'm not asian, so it really feels like not my lane to post about, but i notice all the time how reductive the conversation's become, and it really gets under my skin.

wolfwood is a japanese character, or at the very least designed that way. one of the big pieces of Trigun Trivia is that wolfwood was inspired by a japanese musician, tortoise matsumoto.

his skintone is inconsistent even within individual iterations but he's pretty much always drawn with monolid eyes. even in BLR and especially in stampede.

and that's just... not part of the conversation? somehow?

like. yes. colorism. but stampede wolfwood is immediately identifiable as an asian character, he still has a distinct nose bridge, the undertone of his skin is olive/yellow even when he looks pale. he's not white. he's asian.

and then in english-speaking fandom specifically, often explicitly with a dismissive sneer towards wolfwood's stampede design, wolfwood is very racialized in a way that distinctly does not depict him as asian, which i would bet money is because of western stereotypes about asian men. western wolfwoods are usually latino, or just... ambiguously brown.

(and of course there are asian wolfwoods among those, but his monolid eyes tend to be considered less important to preserve than his tits and his nose, along with stuff that was fully invented by fandom, like his body hair, and the exaggeration of his tits and nose, that rosary... weird how that happened.)

and... like.... there's nothing inherently wrong with character redesigns. or focusing on the parts of the character you find attractive when you draw or write them. i know a lot of specifically latino wolfwood came from latino fans. fanon wolfwood is a very handsome man. i see why so many people like him.

but it is. a bit fucking funny to have a whole host of people calling studio orange colorist and racist for wolfwood not being brown enough and then turning around and making wolfwood Fandom Papi Of The Year.

the vitriol towards stampede wolfwood feels just that much more disingenuous when the language is only surface-level about colorism, and the real complaint is that he's not attractive enough as a sex object.

thank you for the message <3 i'm very tired.

[gingerbreadmonsters]

6k in and my head is about to explode. STILL not allowed to say what i want :(

[lord-squiggletits]

It kinda sucks how Optimus Prime is a character who people (in real life) expect to be so Indubitably Good All The Time that they immediately shut down and refuse to acknowledge him whenever he does bad things or fucks up. Like I don't think I've seen any other character in this fandom get the same instantly negative reaction/never talk about him ever treatment that IDW Optimus gets.

Like, it's either him being a cop or the annexation of Earth. But instead of actually engaging with the story and going "so how does being a cop affect the way he treats and is treated by others" or "what led Optimus to annex Earth and how is this a reflection of his ultimately heroic ideal to treat organics as equal to Cybertronians despite the historical racism of his species"

people just instantly shut down and go "oh he's an asshole, he's stupid, he's not my Optimus, he's a bastard, he's edgy" etc etc and refuse to even like fuckin talk about him

It's so incredibly childish lmao especially when the IDW1 continuity in particular is already rife with characters who are also assholes that do stupid/regrettable things but people have no problems talking about/analyzing their stories.

My kingdom for a fandom that's willing to talk about IDW Optimus without immediately shutting down and just going "he's bad he's a bastard he sucks"

[katyspersonal]

To be honest I hate how some people don't understand the difference between "curating your experience" and "shunning the nonbeliever". Like, if you block someone over them shipping something that makes you 'uncomfy :c' when this ship is not something illegal, you "shun the nonbeliever" and lose your right to be a spokesperson for how fun and supportive the fandom is and how you respect all headcanons.

Tumblr has a feature to block out specific tags and words, and 99% of the shippers will tag the post. You could have JUST blocked the ship tag to "curate your online experience" and check out everything else this fan posts, but nope. Instead, you decided to cut out the entire fan. You decided to never have a look at their other headcanons and other posts not about that ship, you decided to never give them any support as a fan and preemptively obliterate all chances to know them as a person better all because you could not take the L of them daring to have different taste and perspective on these characters than you do. There was 0 reason to cut off the whole person except for you avoiding the "heretic" over the opinion you think is the only "correct" one. It is personal.

And like, yes, okay, we all have the right to cut off fellow fans for extremely petty reasons. Nobody is perfect. But when after this you have the nerve to transmit how much you love this fandom and how everyone has different interpretations, you are a straight up liar. Full stop.

[welcometogrouchland]

I think the disconnect between canon Belos and (a certain genre of) fanon Belos is that in canon he is pathetic (in the dramatic sense) not sympathetic.

[doodlboy]

Om tag ramble

[superhell]

HELLERGREGORYHOUSE PUBLIC ENEMY NUMBER ONE…god you were so iconic for that. you had a bounty on your head and the gaiman stans were coming for you

AND THEY DIDNT EVEN SPELL "ENEMY" RIGHT

[intothestacks]

@gaydiation-poisoning

Actually, if you're saying bullying children and book bans are good you're the problem, tbh <3

Out of the two of us, I'm not the one agreeing with the Nazi policies of banning books you disagree with and harassing people for what they read. You are.

You're also the one agreeing with the queerphobic tactic of pushing for bans of books you haven't read. Which is clear you haven't because you're claiming that the book about kids fighting against wizard Nazis is pro-Nazi.

Is the videogame racist and antisemitic? Quite possibly. I haven't played it, but by the sounds of the summary it sure sounds like it might very well be.

But -- and I don't know how to explain this to you in simpler terms -- a book series and a videogame are not the same thing.

Jewish people have argued that the book series teaches about the horrors of the Holocaust in an approachable and kid-friendly way. But it's pro-Nazi. Sure.

Sure, 6 to 10-year-olds who ask people their pronouns, once discussed during storytime if a character was nonbinary, and once disapproved of a character on Charlotte's Web for assuming her gender ("That's so rude!") are TERFS.

Whether you like it or not, Harry Potter IS part of classic children's literature. Harassing children, librarians, academics, and booksellers won't change that fact. Harry Potter is here to stay.

Even if it were racist, so are plenty of classic children's books, such as The Hobbit (antisemitic), Asterix & Obelix (racist depictions of Black people), and Robinson Crusoe (racist against Indigenous people).

As I said in my OP, every book has something to teach us -- just not necessarily what the author intended.

Books like The Hobbit, for example, can show us how insidious racism and bigotry can be. Based on what we know about Tolkien he didn't MEAN for his book to be antisemitic. His use of antisemitic tropes regarding his dwarves (who, by his own admission, were created to be semitic -- right down to the language they speak) were entirely unintentional. When he realized how much his depiction of dwarves matched the Nazi propaganda about Jews he was horrified and intentionally tried to undo the damage when writing Lord of the Rings.

Books like Asterix & Obelix and Robinson Crusoe can teach us about what things were like in the past -- what was considered publically acceptable.

And this is not going into the fact that someone reading a Nazi book (e.g. Mein Kampf) does not necessarily mean they are pro-Nazi.

They could be a historian. They could be someone looking for a quote to showcase how awful Nazi ideology is. They could be a professor or student teaching/learning about World War II or the events that led up to it. They could be someone wanting to learn more about Nazi rhetoric to better learn how to combat it (know thy enemy).

As a children's librarian, people who harass fans of Harry Potter indiscriminately really worry me.

Here's why.

1. The majority of Harry Potter fans are children.

I've had people call me disgusting and scum and an embarrassment to my disabled community. I've been suicide baited and have received death threats. All of this can be heavy enough stuff for an adult to deal with.

And then I think of how most of my 700+ elementary-aged students are huge Harry Potter fans. Because, you know, Harry Potter is a children's series. And they also have access to the internet and social media like TikTok and YouTube.

Now imagine the stuff that's been said to me being said to a kid. Because Harry Potter's main audience are KIDS.

2. This black-and-white mentality isn't healthy.

Very few things in life are cut-and-dry good vs bad. And if you employ this kind of thinking in one area of your life, odds are you'll apply it to other areas too(more on that in a moment).

And people who go out of their way to harass people who like Harry Potter don't seem to particularly care about any context beyond "If you like Harry Potter in any way whatsoever you're scum".

It hasn't mattered when I've pointed out that I absolutely and unequivocally think Rowling's TERF views are awful and scummy and wrong. It hasn't mattered that I try my best to consume the content only in ways that won't monetarily support her, (which kids typically can't do, btw). It hasn't mattered that it's literally in my job description to keep up with children's media to procure content for my patrons as well as to be able to hold conversations with them.

3. Saying "You're not allowed to read this without being harassed" is no different from saying a book should be banned.

This is ironic, seeing as the people doing the harassing are also often up in arms about queerphobic and racist book bans (as they should be) while demanding book bans of their own.

Because in their all-or-nothing way of thinking, book bans are only bad when the "bad" people do it.

No. Book bans are always bad, no exceptions.

Book bans aren't bad because they're banning the "good" books, they're bad because banning access to different ideas is always bad. Because every book has a lesson to teach us (perhaps not the lesson intended by the author, but a lesson nonetheless).

[buttercuparry]

Why are people in iwtv fandom so eager to dismiss the racial implication of the trial? Of Lestat saying he, a white vampire was being hunted by a black man? Why is the fandom so eager to look away from the drop? So eager to excuse Lestat? So eager to push it all as just a Gothic love story. I want to ask these people if they think that the taboo that is explored in Gothic stories, the horror, the gore is just for the shock of it? Do they think that is what Gothic is about? Do they think Gothic doesn't use the taboo to explore and comment on the underlying social structures? Is Wuthering Heights just the story of Catherine and Heathcliff or does it say something of the hypocrisy and violence of the polite society? Is Turn of the Screw just about a frantic governess and ghosts of the manor and not about Victorian morality and how it suffocates people who are not high up in social status? Be for real. This hand waving about "oh iwtv is a Gothic love story and the fandom is creating a dumpster fire by bringing in racial implications in it uwu" is so dishonest and an insult to the Gothic genre.

[autolenaphilia]

God I think I actually prefer explicit fascist transmisogyny in comparison to the disguised dogwhistly liberal transmisogyny.

Like the people who openly call me an autogynephile and other various slurs and tell me to kill myself are at least being honest. They don't bullshit me about hating my very existence and wanting me to die.

It's all the faux-loving forms of transmisogyny that really make me angry. Like it makes my skin crawl in its dishonesty and hypocrisy. And it takes so many forms. Like the transmisogynist christian "hate the sin, not the sinner" approach where they claim to love me and just want me to accept Jesus in my heart. The necessary condition for accepting their version of Jesus however is me detransitioning, and that would kill me.

There is the terfy "people with gender dysphoria are suffering and they need help but we can't endanger women's sex-based rights for them." i've even seen in arguments about legal gender changes the following: "of course trans women deserve to use women's spaces, but if we allow legal gender self-id evil cis men will take advantage of that. So trans women will have to have their rights restricted." Even J.K. Rowling used it in her terf manifesto.

It makes one yearn for the days of the ur-terf book "The Transsexual Empire" which had the "shemale" slur in its subtitle and in which the author Janice Raymond argued trans women rape real women by the fact of their very existence. That kind of brazen transmisogyny at least had some kind of honesty about it.

There is also the transmisogynist callout culture fandom, or as the japanese fittingly call them: the american feelings yakuza. They callout transfems for problematic kinks like at least once a week but deny transmisogyny. "oh we don't believe all transfems are evil predatory sex perverts, it's just that this particular transfem is."

Their evidence for her being sexual predatory is that she ships two fictional siblings. Or in meatspace meetings, things like her having "bad vibes" ("bad vibes" or "gut instinct" are polite words for what more sensible people call "ingrained bias") .

And they suspiciously keep on making callouts for transfem after transfem in a neverending series, trying to ruin her reputation and socially exile her, but of course they are not transmsiogynists.

There is also the sofboi transandrobro type of transmisogyny. They spread the vilest transmisogyny but always falls back on a terfy bioessentialism to claim ontological innocence and perpetual victimhood in all situations. I've literally seen someone say "how can i be a misogynist, i'm literally afab." These people will not say directly "shut up about your oppression, stupid tranny", but say it in coded form. I had one guy traumadump to me about his rape in vivid detail to make the point that (trans)men suffer more and imply that transfems don't suffer from sexual violence.

And that's the crux of the issue. Open hate barely fazes me anymore, unless there is an immediate threat of physical violence. But being condescended to, being emotionally manipulated, being faced with people veiling their hatred of transfems behind a veil of superficially loving rhetoric, that does make me angry. And these people always use my anger against me. "Why are you so angry when these people are being so polite and nice to you?" And that's because the point of these rhetorical approaches is to have plausible deniability for your bigotry and make transfems look crazy when they point it out.

Yet it's the same bigotry as the explicit version, it's just more dishonest about it. Like if had the They Live glasses and looked at the rhetoric, it would just read "exterminate all transfems." All those polite liberals believe the same thing about transfems as the neo-nazis openly calling for us to be hanged, they just lack the virtue of being honest about it.

[rnadett]

I love how Ekko's stans project their hatred onto Caitlyn, but completely turn a blind eye to Heimerdinger, who was, by the way, the embodiment of white male privilege.

The basis for this claim is most evident in the fact that he receives almost ZERO hate from the fans, even though for 200 years he couldn’t be bothered to cross that damn bridge and see how far behind Zaun was compared to Piltover. Not even after Jinx and Vi’s parents died in the civil war. He was like "Yeah, that's none of my business"??? But if a female character breaks down because, her mother was murdered, suddenly everyone loses their mind. Now, that’s the real hypocritical attitude and misogyny.

Also, the fact that no one has criticized Ekko and Heimerdinger’s interaction speaks volumes.

Ekko knew that the professor was the most influential man in Piltover for >>>GENERATIONS<<<, yet there was no confrontation between them.

Imagine if that mf had even once stepped out of his bubble before Vander's and Silco's character was even born—none of this shit would've happened. And yet, he gets away with it and the writers gets away with it.

Overall: None of Cait's actions was the best but some of you just really hate women and let men get away with everything.

Edit:

This tweet reeks of hypocrisy and reinforces exactly what I wrote above. The fandom forgave Heimerdinger and portrays him as the Piltoverian who took responsibility for his actions, even though his redemption wasn't on-screen either. The guy literally only lifted a finger after being kicked off the council, and even when they shifted to an alternate universe, there was no ON-SCREEN evidence that he initiated any changes in Zaun. He spent the whole time singing songs, and people felt sympathy for him because he died in the end — which, frankly, was the least he could do.

No one looks past the façade because they see a cute autistic grandpa, while on the other side, we have a grieving young woman who’s being exploited. She didn't need 40 or 200 years to realize the weight of her actions and is fighting tooth and nail to rewrite the future.

This is what I was talking about when I mentioned misogyny. Everyone forgives the grandpa figure for everything, and even Christian was able to comment on a tweet that painted him as the only Piltoverian who took responsibility.

[dephoraowo]

You should read these metas if you want to understand why Jiang Cheng is in the wrong.

This is by @jiangwanyinscatmom, and it talks about how Wei Wuxian deals with the debt he has for the Jiangs.

This is by @kshithi-and-stories. This meta explains the importance of debts and morals. It is a beautifully written meta and I'd suggest everyone take a look at it!

I've got another one here. It's by @admirableadmiranda and it's a meta explaining about Jiang Cheng and his debts.

Here is another good meta on debts by @esoteric-oracle. It talks about how important life debts are in mdzs and how repaying it reflects your own character.

Jiang Cheng is obligated to repay his debts. We don't expect Jiang Cheng to sacrifice everything for the Wen siblings. We, as the readers, know that all Jiang Cheng has to do to repay his debts is by repeating what the Wen siblings did for him. Like you know, sheltering him from danger? He just needs to shelter them. That's literally the bare minimum that he has to do.

And the reason Jiang Cheng doesn't want to is because he hates all Wens. It's as simple as that. Jiang Cheng hates them, even though they risked their lives to save Jiang Cheng that night. And this hate is unjustified. Why hate those that saved you? They didn't hurt anyone in the war.

Also, I have seen many discourse on this before, such as "the Jiang Clan was recovering" or "Jiang Cheng just wanted to prioritise his own clan." The Jiang Clan was flourishing because of Wei Wuxian's accomplishments during the war. Disciples were flocking into the clan, and they had the most spoils of war. The Clan was most certainly not weak. Another evidence for this is the Jin Clan. Do you know why the Jins wanted to separate Wei Wuxian from the clan? Because the Jins know that Wei Wuxian is the reason the clan is so powerful. The Jins felt threatened by the Jiang Clan. So they purposely drove Jiang Cheng into kicking Wei Wuxian out.

Jiang Cheng doesn't really care about his clan, not in the way that you think. He only cares about the clan's reputation, its looks. We can see that throughout the entire book. He, unfortunately, does not care about the safety of his people. We can see this in Yunping City. The people in Yunping are so scared of asking him for help. They'd rather pray to a statue than ask Yunmeng Jiang. Jiang Cheng himself doesn't like taking cases in Yunmeng unless someone has already died. Not only that, but the Jiang Clan under Jiang Cheng's leadership became a former husk compared to what it once was, as shown in the novel when they returned to Lotus Pier after the second siege.

Also, I know for certain that there are gonna be people saying that Jiang Cheng also risked his life to give up his core for Wei Wuxian. And that's not true. Jiang Cheng distracted the Wens yes. But do you remembered his reaction after that? Jiang Cheng regretted it. Because he didn't expect that he would lose his golden core. That's why he was so hellbent on dying. He would never distract the Wens again if he knew he was going to lose his core.

Wei Wuxian, on the other hand, does repay his debts. He repayed his his debts to the Jiangs by:

1. Serving the Jiang Clan (Serving as Head Disciple and by serving as Jiang Cheng's subordinate)

2.. Protecting Jiang Cheng. (Ordered by JFM and YZY)

3. Giving up his golden core. (In Jiang Cheng’s point of view, a boon from Baoshan Sanren)

4. Serving the Jiangs during the war. (Because of this, the Jiang Clan could claim the most spoils of war and there were so many disciples flocking to the clan)

5. Serving the Jiangs after the war. (Jiang Cheng asked Wei Wuxian to go to the Phoenix Mountain Hunt to show off and gain more disciples. And Wei Wuxian did do so.)

6. When he sheltered the Wens, he was also helping Jiang Cheng with Jiang Cheng's own debt to the Wen siblings.

The thing about Jiang Cheng is that not only did he not do anything to help the ones that helped him, but he also went as far as to harm them! He declared Wei Wuxian an enemy to the cultivation world, thus painting a target onto his back officially. He stabbed Wei Wuxian in the gut. A stab in the gut could have killed anyone, core or no core. Then he pledged to kill the Wen remnants and Wei Wuxian. And he led a siege against them. Which ultimately led to their deaths. He also conveniently led a 2nd siege, too.

Wei Wuxian DID sacrifice everything for the Jiangs. He was willing to:

1. Endure all of Jiang Cheng's insults and disrespect and his mistreatment in the Jiang household to become Jiang Cheng's subordinate

2. Take the blame whenever he, Jiang Cheng, and the rest of the disciples were misbehaving

3. Lose an arm for the clan

4. Be whipped to prevent the clan from being harmed by Wang Lingjiao

5. Be unjustly blamed by Yu Ziyuan and Jiang Cheng for what happened at Lotus Pier.

6. Be choked so that Jiang Cheng could let off some steam.

7. Give away his own golden core/immortal's boon for Jiang Cheng.

8. Die for a way to give Jiang Cheng a chance to live with a core

9. Be used as the Jiang Clan's weapon during the war

10. Be used to promote the Jiang Clan after the war.

11. Be exiled so that the Clan wouldn't be affected by whatever he did

12. Sacrifice his own status and reputation (which was sort of horrible to begin with).

Wei Wuxian sacrificed EVERYTHING that he had (which isn't a lot to begin with) for the Jiangs, and it ultimately led to his downfall.

Jiang Cheng DID NOT sacrifice everything. The only time he did (which is so less compared to Wei Wuxian) is when he distracted the Wens. But the moment he lost his core, he was ready to die and started choking Wei Wuxian a second time for it. He regretted doing it. After this incident, he never helped Wei Wuxian again because he didn't want any sort of inconvenience. He is clan heir, he has money and power, he has status, he has a strong clan to rely on. Even if he doesn't have a core, he still has all of this. Wei Wuxian has none! The only thing that Wei Wuxian has that is all HIS is the "boon" from Baoshan sanren, and he gave it away to Jiang Cheng! (And no, Wei Wuxian's reputation and status is not his, it's something that he has only when he does the Jiangs bidding. You will notice that once he is kicked out he doesn't have anything anymore, no money, no status, nothing.)

Wei Wuxian did so much for the clan, for Jiang Cheng, and yet he has never asked for anything in return. Wei Wuxian never went up to Jiang Cheng and said how much does your father owe my mother? How much have I done for the Jiang Clan and how are you going to repay that? You remembered that core inside of you? How are you going to repay that? Wei Wuxian never did any of this. Unlike Jiang Cheng, he was never going on and on about what kind of debt anyone owes him.

The hypocritical thing about Jiang Cheng is this. He did so little in comparison to Wei Wuxian, and yet he still wants more. Wei Wuxian contributed so much for the Jiangs, and yet he asked for so little. The hypocritical thing about Jiang Cheng is that while he cares so much about the debt that Wei Wuxian has for the Jiangs, (which btw, he doesn't really owe the Jiangs anything, JFM owed CSSR a debt, and he repaid it by taking WWX in), he never once thought about repaying his own debts. It's always about him him him and never about anyone else. He's always going on and on about his family, his clan, his reputation, and his everything, to be honest with you. That kind of thinking is so self-centered. He has never once stopped to think about repaying his own debts. He's always thinking about how OTHER PEOPLE should repay HIM. That is what makes Jiang Cheng such a hypocritical, ungrateful person.

So let me get this straight, JC antis fully expect him to risk and sacrifice everything—from his personal moral duty, to the entire Jiang Clan’s survival—to repay his debt to the Wen siblings. But when JC expects the same from Wwx, suddenly it's “wrong,” “selfish,” and “entitled” for JC to do so? Y'all antis love to ignore the fact that Wwx owes a huge debt to the Jiang Clan, who save him, take him in, and raise him to be a cultivator.

If JC is expected to sacrifice everything bc of a debt, then the same should be applied to Wwx, he should also be expected to give up everything, including his own high and mighty morals to repay the Jiang Clan for everything they did for him. But no, apparently when it’s Wwx, it’s okay for him to follow his personal principles and abandon his obligations.

And before y'all start whining about the golden core transfer, let’s take a moment to remember why Jiang Cheng lost his core in the first place. Oh, right—it's bc of Wwx. JC sacrificed himself when he didn’t owe Wwx a damn thing, he did it out of pure love and loyalty. So if you’re going to cry abt JC being ungrateful for not bending over backward to repay his debts, then guess what? Wei Wuxian is just as every bit as ungrateful, if not worse than JC for spitting on the debt he owed to the Jiangs.