#super intriguing. these convos are really making my brain whirr and I love it haha.

[runnyeggsnham]

“Can we dissect the blanket scene? I feel like there's a lot going on there. The conversation starts with Sylvie talking about Mobius and pointing out, without mockery, that Mobius cares about Loki. And for some reason Loki changes the subject and tries to flirt with her instead.

I wonder if part of him felt Sylvie was safer because he knows himself and potential future rejection is more familiar and less unnerving than someone actively rooting for him to succeed. I mean, aside from Sylvie holding hands with Loki on Lamentis, I don't think there was any point where she sincerely complimented him without either mocking or teasing him. This can be cute, but Loki /hungers/ for validation.”

Okay slight delay but yessss, Anon, let’s dissect it! this got really long btw haha oops.

funny enough, this scene didn’t (and still doesn’t tbh) sell me romance, so at the time I was also like ‘yeah this could go either way; are you flirting or just being awkward, Loki?' lol.

"I feel like there's a lot going on there. The conversation starts with Sylvie talking about Mobius and pointing out, without mockery, that Mobius cares about Loki."

there really is a lot going on, and like...considering everything that comes after, it really does feel like the writers undercut themselves here in the romance. badly. of course, notable is how Sylvie opens up very little in comparison to Loki, expressing her fear of Loki betraying her and then listening to all his reassurances but acting no less comforted and giving no assurances of her own.

but to your points, first off, why does Sylvie mentioned Mobius like this...and at all? she actually brings him up twice this convo, which I'd forgotten: the first is in regards to his character, in a positive way, yet she disputes the nexus event theory of his as a "TVA lie" later. bizarre choice, if the two mentions of Mobius are connected...not necessarily so bizarre, if they aren't. and I don't think they are.

I think Sylvie was considering Mobius in two different contexts: his connection to Loki, and then his theory because she was thinking of her connection with Loki. when she brought up the theory, it fits more neatly that she was thinking about it as part of a greater worry about whether she could let herself really trust Loki enough to be partners and that any trust and care could be mutual in such a powerful, genuine way like what Mobius thought. such an idea is so wholly new to her and it would make her vulnerable to believe it.

(and can we just for a second dwell on how Mobius is responsible for Loki thinking about his feelings for Sylvie AND Sylvie thinking about her feelings for Loki?? I cannot unmake that connection Anon but we can discuss another time, I don't want to get too far distracted from your points, just...yeah that's Something, isn't it?)

another thing, this scene starts off quiet and calm akin to Loki and Mobius' footsie one. but instead of Loki piping up to ask Mobius about his magazine, it's Sylvie piping up to give her perspective about Mobius. so when I said before that she was thinking of Mobius first in context of his connection to Loki, I say that because this sounds like her giving...approval, for lack of a better word, of the friendship?

plus the way it is delivered is purely observation - one she makes while not even looking at Loki, but off into the horizon. It feels wistful, to me, and you're right, there's no mocking. from the first to the last, Sylvie insists her story is not about Loki and she is not like him. so her observing Mobius in the car and then fishing with the "he's not so bad" and, after listening and looking at Loki's reaction, ending, "he cares about you" with such finality, it feels to me like, 'ah yes, you aren't truly alone, not even after suffering from the TVA.' it feels like she's confirmed a suspicion.

which...if that is the case...has several implications in hindsight. I'll try to run through the two that came to mind real quick, Anon! I just think they're neat...

first, I think it further made Loki's finale pleading - specifically the lines of TVA hurting them both but this choice being beyond their experiences and about the universe - fall flat in Sylvie's eyes. because Sylvie may not have been able to believe Loki had been hurt enough to really understand her and therefore she couldn't see him as right enough to sway her from her lifelong plan, yeah? he's misguided because she's experienced worse, so she knows better.

second, on Sylvie maybe confirming her suspicion regarding Mobius and Loki's friendship...this sequence is where Sylvie would then get the idea to send Loki back to the TVA, to Mobius, right?

because it's Sylvie that involves Mobius at all in this convo, and where did Sylvie determine this opinion of Mobius? their car scene, which just further adds layers to this foreshadowing of betrayal, of being unable to trust Loki. Sylvie was surprised that Mobius still believed, with no doubt, that Loki was here in the Void somewhere, surviving, and Sylvie just could not get her hopes up for that. she did not allow herself that. it was all just about them getting out of the Void now. focus on Alioth, focus on the mission.

when Sylvie sets her mind to something, she becomes absolutely fixated, unswayable. the finale pleading from Loki was the closest, but arguably still missed by a mile. and while Mobius was willing to support her here in the Void and go along with that plan, the sadness is all over his face at such a prospect. by the dialogue, I think it makes more sense for him to have just shared the nexus event theory before we see them, so despite believing their connection was timeline shattering, he still has the most hope of the two in Loki...

anyway, off topic. back to Sylvie to wrap up that other implication.

this car ride gives Sylvie that inkling of Mobius' care, and that first dialogue with Loki then confirms it, right? so Sylvie knew that, push come to shove, from betrayal or not, if Loki stops going along on the mission with her then she needs a b-plan to continue on. mission first, always. no hesitation. the hesitation in the finale, to me, read as a shift between her feeling that she had to fight Loki to her willing to acknowledge he isn't "evil Loki", perhaps he isn't after that throne after all as he insists, perhaps it really is all about care for her and the universe...but that's not enough to stop the mission. so she distracts him and sends him back to the TVA. she sends him to where she knows there's someone else who cares about him.

she could have sent him anywhere. but the TVA was best, because he has Mobius. because of what she witnessed and heard between and regarding them in the Void...there's no other scene that would've set up this destination decision, no? and what would be the odds she'd choose a place at random and it was the TVA...? i think it was intentional.

"And for some reason Loki changes the subject and tries to flirt with her instead. I wonder if part of him felt Sylvie was safer because he knows himself and potential future rejection is more familiar and less unnerving than someone actively rooting for him to succeed."

gosh, yeah, that's interesting, right? weird turn to flirting. I feel like...he was initially just trying to get Sylvie to open up so they could explore that nexus event theory. going with Loki's feelings being romantic, I think he's already entertaining or partially convinced himself here about these feelings....which, narratively, just highlights Sylvie's repeated distance until Loki presses the matter by putting the blanket on her shoulders.

you posit a really fascinating idea about Loki's mindset....really interesting. I do think there's something there, because Loki does try to bridge the distance, twice, and Sylvie kind of rejects it, but in ways that Loki is really familiar with and don't really challenge him. it made me think again, about how Loki takes Mobius' tolerance and understanding and tries to apply it to Sylvie, because he does recognize parts of himself in her and her behaviors.

so yeah, I can totally see how that would make Loki feel Sylvie's safe, in this odd way, because he knows her patterns when he looks for them. (it's when he convinces himself that they've made more progress than there is in reality that he gets blindsided by the betrayal....)

here, these are the two bridge the distance moments I mean:

he mentions the cold, but Sylvie just hums and keeps looking away, not really engaging. then, he conjures his blanket and offers to conjure one for her.

and she deflects, commenting about him conjuring her a new outfit because it's so uncomfortable and he wouldn't know that, and Loki just...juts out his jaw, huffs a laugh, and presses his lips together. because...actually, Loki does know how tight leather ensembles feel...but Sylvie doesn't know that about him (writers really shouldn't keep highlighting how little these two know about each other). anyway, it's a Loki style deflection, so he waits. and after a few beats, Sylvie brings up the nexus event, Mobius' theory, and they do their verbal dance of Sylvie's hesitantly expressed fears, Loki's assurances, and Sylvie's responding "maybe" to figuring it all out together.

your thought is just, I'm gonna say it again, so fascinating...because the more I think about it, the more I see how well it applies? like, it may not even necessarily be Loki consciously thinking about himself. I don't know that he was, in these moments? it feels like he threw himself so fully into Sylvie's plan, Sylvie's purpose, Sylvie's recovery...and he took everything he learned from Mobius' treatment of him to do so.

narratively, there is no one else, no other source considering that yeah, this was 2012 Loki before Mobius helped him strip away the illusions and put himself back together. and just...the writers really didn't see what they were doing? amazing.

so your thought, I think it actually kind of compliments what is being said about these two's storyline being indicative of self-love, because in that case, it's Loki looking at a mirror of some parts of himself and learning to love them from an outside perspective...and it's him having to come to terms with the ones that betray/self-sabotage and hurt him, too. like back at Roxxcart, that line, "I would never treat me this way." as he sees in the Void, though...a lot of variants of himself actually would treat him that badly.

so by getting so close to Sylvie, Loki gets a fresh perspective on how different he is now, how he himself, this variant that he alone is, is not destined to repeat those patterns. but that doesn't mean he can save every other variant that he wants to either. they can be close to him, they can be full of a lot of good, but he can't force that same change on them that he went through. they're all different and have to do it, have to choose to do the work, themselves.

but yeah, I agree. with the rejection in these little moments with Sylvie, it's so easy for Loki to dismiss them because it's "less unnerving than someone actively rooting for him to succeed" and add on to that that Loki's approaching her from a very Mobius-influenced perspective, constantly trying to put himself in her perspective and empathize with her, instead...Loki replaces his purpose with well-meaning intentions, at least. but he's giving too much and Sylvie is returning too little. it's not balanced, right from the start, and it never becomes so.

which that, at least, is quite fitting for Loki's growth, right? it's a pendulum swing, and that swing too far to the opposite side toward Sylvie just to get knocked right back...that propels him to come to terms with it all and race to find Mobius. it's another step on him accepting all the good and the bad of himself and Lokis and what it means to try and fail and try again. all so he can find his pendulum's center, his balance.

"I mean, aside from Sylvie holding hands with Loki on Lamentis, I don't think there was any point where she sincerely complimented him without either mocking or teasing him. This can be cute, but Loki /hungers/ for validation."

I haven't rewatched 1-6 straight through yet but...I think you're right. I cannot remember another one without a mock or tease involved. and yeah, Loki has been so deprived of validation, it's like sunlight for him. again why I think maybe he threw himself into the connection with Sylvie so hard: he thought she was innately better, and he wanted to take on that role of supportive partner as a way to shift and find a new, a good, purpose. he was quite selfless...but he shouldn't have to be so much that Sylvie can't eventually meet him in the middle and return the same sentiment.

the closest they really get is that "maybe we can figure it out together" "maybe", I think, and that's just not close enough imo. contrast that with Loki's repeated validations from Mobius, and more importantly, what it says about those validations and that connection that he races to find Mobius, full of relief at the sight and immediately willing to confess, his trust in their relationship not rocked or made insecure by everything that's happened...whew.

I'm so glad you mentioned the blanket scene because I don't think I would have rewatched it anytime soon but your points are so good, really interesting to think about, and there is just soo much going on in this scene that ties beyond. utterly insane that the writers seem to have no idea the full scope of what they were presenting and how often they put these two dynamics in direct contrast when they were doing it lol.