#stede is the same as izzy which is why steddyhands is actually endgame

[laceratedlamiaceae]

Izzy is the kind of guy who would demand that you put a coaster down for everything and Ed is the kind of guy who wouldn't even notice the carefully stacked coasters on the side table until someone nagged him to use one and that's why their relationship is Like That

[uselessheretic]

okay opinions on characters are all different and one of the things i think need to be dissuaded is the idea that izzy fans all have the same brain but i feel like general trends the majority of fans agree on is:

izzy hands has made many mistakes and a lot of them are because he has moments where he's not very smart

this is also because izzy is an antagonist which is not the same thing as a villain

ed/izzy's relationship is complex where it isn't just one bad guy, it's a mutually toxic relationship that has degraded over the years from a lack of communication, mental illness, and burn out

neither ed or izzy are abusers

izzy/stede's relationship is bad and it's more stede's fault than izzy's

that's kinda funny tho which is why stizzy is so popular

calling the navy was a bad thing to do. however, they are also pirates in a constant state of fucking each other over so who cares

"izzy redemption arc" isn't something people are super invested in because the show doesn't really do?? redemption arcs? izzy character development and making friends outside of ed though is something we are anticipating

izzy isn't racist and at this point in time just block me if you think he is this conversation has gone nowhere and i doubt we'll reach a consensus since any arguments from izzy fans are dismissed off the bat

viewing izzy as homophobic or struggling w toxic masculinity is actually not universally agreed upon! in general, i feel like people mostly lean towards izzy is not homophobic, he's just gay and stupid. i would say there's a spectrum of opinions on izzy and his relationship to masculinity with a more common interpretation being that his storyline has very little to do with masculinity.

ed choking izzy made sense in the moment and honestly they're pirates, izzy fucked around and found out, and it was just really hot.

ed sneaking into his room and permanently mutilating him, however, is crossing the line. this is a bad thing to do and izzy wasn't "asking for it"

that said, ed's a perfect babygirl and we want nothing but the best for him because he's never done anything wrong in his life ❤️ however, ed as a character would probs feel better if he apologized

ed/stede is endgame and it's extremely unlikely that steddyhands would be endgame even if some people would prefer that. as a fandom, we are content with edstede being endgame because stede makes ed happy. this may be a shock, but many people who are into ed/stede/izzy also really like ed/stede. it's fun to see them spitroast izzy tho.

[ladyluscinia]

speaking as someone who reads a lot of ed/stede fic i think you're exactly right re: woobification of ed. if the fic in question touches on e10 his actions are usually given far less weight than stede's, and imo i think it's because a lot of fans don't know how to deal with the gravity of what he did. something i've seen often is that ed will get some grief from the crew and they may be somewhat cautious around him, but mostly it's stede who has to work to win back ed's trust and affection. which, yes, obviously he should have to do that, he fucked up, but ed not having to do the same with the crew & izzy if the author even bothers to write him in has always seemed idk unfair to me? obviously, people can write what they want, but i do feel like this attitude is prevalent in fandom meta as well. it goes on a wavelength of something like: all of ed's actions towards izzy, the crew, and stede are largely excused, stede's behavior towards izzy receives the same treatment, and izzy is simply not around for any variety of reasons and no one cares that he got his toe cut off. the reason i have accidentally read so much fic like this is because every time i open something that piques my interest thinking maybe it will be different and almost always it is not. i wouldn't be so bothered by this if it didn't contribute to the pipeline of me seeing with my own eyes posts made by people on this very website attempting to justify bodily mutilation as some fucked up form of punitive justice.

Hi, yes, all of this.

Like, I will confess that I'm already very lukewarm on BlackBonnet as a ship (just not my preferred dynamic), but I have been avoiding the tag on tumblr and AO3 like it's radioactive because I know I will risk losing all positive feelings for it in a matter of hours (which... probably not a great idea seeing as it's endgame 🤣). I'm sticking to SteddyHands where nitpicks about characterization are easier to spot in advance and often actual nitpicks, not slam the back button levels of drastic.

Anyway, the part of this ask that really grabbed my attention was...

...it's because a lot of fans don't know how to deal with the gravity of what he did.

...because that is a major part of the problem and also kinda interesting to talk about. And I have thoughts on it, both on how the show is potentially equipped to handle it and why so many fans struggle.

So preface: here's a link to my followup woobification thoughts post, which links the original woobification thoughts response right at the top.

Now... Why is reckoning with and forgiving Edward's actions (that are obviously going to be forgiven) proving so difficult that it makes sidestepping the problem entirely such a common fandom response instead?

---

There's two main factors that I think are the most important at the moment. (Well, three, but the third is anti culture declaring that faves must not be "problematic" or "bad people" or you aren't allowed to like them, and that's way bigger than this specific OFMD problem. Those antis just need to be ignored. So two actually interesting to discuss main factors.)

The genre of the show is hitting a very nice spot in handwaviness around violence that is crucial to getting past this in canon.

Edward's character arc spent pretty much all of S1 in the setup phase, while Stede actually progressed through his.

Genre, I'm almost positive, is going to be the show's saving grace in this matter, because they have played some really clever games with it. I talked a lot in this post about how handwaving narrative consequences at a certain point can be a really good thing, but it's also deceptively hard to set up because if you fail to be consistent then it only highlights your issues.

Edward's actions in a more serious show would be pretty hard to come back from, and even in this show, they aren't currently being treated as funny or no big deal. That's why just handwaving them from here doesn't work. Stede fixing the Kraken with a swashbuckler entrance and a kiss is a funny joke and a great fanart, but not a satisfying story for Edward. At the same time, OFMD's humor is actually really dark for a show that is best described as a romcom. Meaning even as Edward does awful things you can keep a running thread of humor to kind of lighten the gravity - like Jim's "What did you do to your face?" comment.

I still maintain that the big three four events of the Kraken turn - Izzy lashing out at Edward, Edward "killing" Lucius, Edward maiming Izzy, and Stede's abandonment overshadowing it all - have to be dealt with roughly equivalently and at the same time. Leave a hurt out (like Izzy's toe) and you mess up the whole balance, so there's one problem for people who don't like Izzy very much. But so long as all the characters get to acknowledge how they fucked up and how they won't do it again (requiring some character growth and communication from them all), then the genre tone will let them collectively move on without unpleasant hurdles (like Lucius feeling unsafe on a ship with Edward for the rest of his life).

This helps the show, but it doesn't necessarily help fans and fanfic, because a lot of fanfic writers are not working in this genre.

Angst people are writing angst, fluff writers are in slice of life romance, plot heavy fics might be adventures... all very fun, but possibly lacking the required tools to satisfactorily resolve these problems the way the show is likely going to. They have to adapt it or discard the need for a solution entirely, and adapting it might be trickier both because it's more work and there's a lot more open questions around Edward than around Stede.

We're back to character arcs.

It's so easy for fans to focus on how Stede needs to fix what he's done because, yeah, it wasn't that terrible in comparison, but also the show has already built and explored the whole framework for him to do so. We know exactly what was going through his head, we know what he wants now, we know the direction his character is going in... He's most of the way there already. For Izzy enjoyers, too, a lot of his character arc was covered this season. We have lots of evidence for his motivations and wants and plausible ways he could grow as a character, even if it's a bit more open to interpretation than Stede.

Edward, meanwhile, has just started. We can try and interpret his behavior this season for hints as to what's driving him, but there have been no recent backstory flashbacks or goals he was openly chasing beyond the general idea of Stede, and clearly the Kraken is not about getting Stede back. His flaws haven't been starkly established, much less the intended solutions. Like, I think that greed for both lives he's been sampling is a major part of it, and the resolution will involve compromising to a life he's satisfied with, but that's just informed speculation at this point.

Edward is so hard to figure out in a fic because first you have to decide what you think the problem and solution is, and then how to adapt it to whatever genre you are working in so that it actually fixes the whole attempted murder of 7 people + maiming and abduction. Not very easy if said genre is, say, the ever popular fluffy romance. Good fucking luck conveying even the idea of a whole arc in a oneshot. It can be done, but not easily. Meta, too, can have a sort of "genre" that causes a similar struggle. I feel like my meta probably isn't overly concerned with how characters are mentally affected by violence committed against them, for example, simply because it rarely interests me long term and I watch so many shows where violence is omnipresent, which probably helps me here.

Anyway, for a lot of fans it's much easier to just focus on what has been clearly established - that Edward has childhood trauma and was hurting - and a solution that conveniently can play out in almost every genre - make Edward feel better. Even if, as I will continue to complain, that's not really an arc and therefore boring. Also pretty woobifying to suggest a guy who committed 7 attempted murders had no underlying issues that are on him to address. Just really hurt feelings and the need to believe in love again.

So yeah. Interesting factors. I think considering both makes impressive strides to explain where the problem is coming from, even if it doesn't really prevent it. Just back to waiting for season 2, I guess.

...also I just realized that this is finally my version of the "only BlackHands shippers get Edward as a character" post 🤣🤣🤣 Because they are actually pretty good at navigating the Edward/Izzy part of this. Sometimes. I have way more faith in them out of the gate, at least.

(EDIT: Follow up response where I make a Helen of Troy joke)

[sixstepsaway]

Im having a lot of fun thinking about how Izzy is open with his thoughts to Ed, but Ed doesn't reciprocate, and then Ed is open with his thoughts to Stede who ALSO doesn't reciprocate and how this is what fucks up both their relationships. If either of these relationships was more secure they'd have avoided so much trouble we wouldn't have the story, which is why they aren't secure. They're all a mess!

Very fun to ship steddyhands and think about closing this circle. Stede being open with Izzy while on the outs with Ed and Izzy not sharing absolutely anything bc after the finale he doesn't trust anyone anymore much less Stede.

Fuuuuuuuuck yes.

I know that logically the show is not going down a Steddyhands or Blackhands route. I know that. We're not going to get that. I doubt we'll even be indulged in getting some Blackhands love triangle content or, like, flashbacks or a chunk of time where it is canon before we get endgame Blackbonnet (and, honestly, after what Ed did to Izzy in 1x10, any post-s1 canon Blackhands would need a lot of work to make go without it being deeply concerning).

But the more I analyze what the show gives us and how the characters act right now (and I acknowledge that growth could easily nullify a lot of this? Characters developing is important, and that's how we'll get our Blackbonnet endgame and it'll be good, but) I can't see a lot of ways for Blackbonnet to end up together in a good place without the inclusion of Izzy.

Ed and Stede have, up until this point, seen each other through rose-tinted glasses, to the point Ed didn't give a fuck Stede had left his family, and Stede didn't give a fuck Ed had killed a bunch of people including his own father.

Now Stede is going to have to see Ed as someone who tried to kill seven of the nine people Stede cares about most (seven of eleven, if we say Stede also cares for Ivan and Fang now, which I like to think he does) and willingly maimed his most loyal companion.

Ed is going to have to see Stede as someone who ran away and abandoned him and clearly has a habit of doing this, and Ed being Special and someone Stede Actually Loves did not change that he did the same to Ed as he did to Mary. Mary having his children didn't change he did it to Mary, either. Nor did the fact he loves his kids stop him doing it to them. Loving them does not stop Stede running away from that person like his ass is on fire. Nor does any semblance of commitment (marriage and children).

This relationship will, because of this, need a lot of work, and most of that work is going to require communication. Ed will need to talk about why he did what he did (Izzy's words, how he was feeling etc) and Stede will have to talk about why he did what he did (ruined Blackbeard, the guilt over leaving Mary and the kids that he's been carrying this whole time, probably a splattering of maybe not gay panic (he didn't seem to be panicking he was kissing a man) but definitely a bit of kissing someone I am not married to while I still technically have a wife panic, especially considering he was not super thrilled Mary was sleeping with Doug, even after he fucked off on her).

Closing that loop with Steddyhands is galaxy brain because Stede is open to hearing whatever people want to say about and to him, unlike Edward "You know we speak our minds on this ship until you say something I don't like and then I call you a dog and chokeslam you" Teach, and Stede is also a lot less reserved around Izzy in so far as he's willing to seem like a complete cunt when talking to Izzy ("oh it's you" "iGGy" "tell your boss he can suck eggs in hell!"), whereas he seems to rein his more abrasive sides in around Ed, and the most bitchy he really gets is that sideways comment of, "In hindsight I kinda shoulda known," about Jack being mutinied on and his, "Ed, do you know this guy, he's a real dick!", but that could be assumed by Ed to be Stede pretending to be Blackbeard (which, I do not think he was. Ed embodied Stede, but Stede just chilled in his clothes and remained being Stede).

(Relatedly: I find it very funny that the thing Ed was most fascinated by and attracted to in regards to Stede early on is that Stede told him to go suck eggs in hell, but really Stede was saying that to Izzy, it's Izzy's face he snarled those words into, about some boss he had never met and had no desire to meet, and it was Izzy he was calling Iggy and telling to fuck off. I imagine if Stede had told Ed to go suck eggs in hell to his face, Ed would've come in his pants on the spot, and I also imagine that if Ed found out/realized Stede was actually mostly saying that to Izzy, he'd be utterly baffled that Izzy hated Stede rather than wanting him for himself, idk.)

It's especially fascinating to imagine closing the loop with Stede actually letting himself be bitchy and a bit abrasive around Ed, because judging by the fact Ed readily lets Izzy be abrasive as fuck and rude as hell to him and all he does is pull these faces:

the first of which is downright fond

the second is "you called him a ponce, do you really think he's gay? i'm hoping he's gay"

and this one which is my personal favorite because it's just "idk where those fingers have been, iz" and his eyes sweep back and forth between each finger like "are you going to jam these up my nose next" it's so funny, i love this scene so much it lives rent free in my brain it really does

and after izzy storms off to grab stede he just does this

and it just reads like "hm, we were overdue a shitfit weren't we mate but the fingers were surprising"

(also, related to the conversation about timelines in another meta, though idk if i'd call this post a meta per se, i noticed that stede's bruise from the hanging goes right up under his chin, so the cravat definitely isn't covering it up in 1x05, it's just gone, and presumably completely healed

six weeks my ass)

anyway, Ed's expression when Izzy does his lil tizzy at him tells me that this is something that Izzy does. he broods and eventually blows up and tells Ed how he's feeling and he's mean and grumpy and Ed often finds him being a lil bitch to the crew or to hostages or whatever and it's just. normal.

and that also implies, since Ed kept him around, that Ed likes that about him.

in fact i think the fact that when izzy starts his tirade Ed is just like "*points* that's blackbeard" kind of proves it's something he finds more down the realm of playful than offensive, and actually izzy even smiles a little when he says that, like he's finding it amusing and he'd be playing if the situation wasn't so god damn dire and they werent all probably about to die and if they hadnt lost a bunch of their guys to this

(and i mean, this could be that con struggled to keep a straight face after either something taika did between takes or just the way taika delivered the line "I'm Stede, remember?" but I prefer Watsonian analysis of scenes that make it into the show for my metas)

So, conclusions: Ed finds Izzy's temper and abrasive attitude and temper very endearing and downright amusing. Izzy enjoys the way Ed plays with him (because he's Ed's to play with) and this scene might have gone differently if Ed wasn't actively not-really-leading them into their deaths.

We don't have any canon confirmation of whether Izzy and Ed were ever in any kind of relationship before, if they've ever been sexually intimate etc. All we know is David Jenkins says Izzy is in love with Ed, and that when Ed slammed Izzy into the wall, Izzy reached out to cup his cheek and say, "There you are."

I don't, for the record, think they've ever fucked or even kissed in the past. I do, however, think they've been surprisingly intimate, judging by the way Izzy felt comfortable cupping his cheek, and we already know that Edward's fucked Jack--

(and I know some people think maybe Jack was lying to rile Stede up, but I don't think he was. Ed and Jack are very handsy with one another, they sit very close together, they have excellent chemistry when they're fucking around together. Jack's an ass, but Ed talks at length about how he saved Ed's life in the past and how Jack is his old friend, and they talk about serving together under Hornigold in a way that makes me think they spent a lot of time in close quarters. However, I do think Jack probably fucked Ed because there was no one else around to fuck and they wouldn't make berth somewhere with prostitutes any time soon so he might as well pretend Ed's a girl, whereas Ed fucked Jack because he was hot and he'd saved his life and he wanted to because he's into men. Which is two very different vibes, and if Ed's used to that kind of treatment (him liking a guy sexually or romantically or intimately, and the guy being his bud but either not being gay/bi/etc or simply refusing to admit he might be so putting it down to "it doesn't count at sea"), then it makes sense he wouldn't really feel comfortable leaning into any relationships with anyone, even Izzy and Stede (who he didn't admit to feelings for until 1x09 because it was the first time he thought maybe, if he was lucky, Stede might be feeling the same?) and so for him it's just sex and maybe he wouldn't want to go there with Izzy because being cast off like that by Izzy would just be far, far too much?)

--and the way he flirts with Stede is a guy who knows how to get other guys into bed when he wants to (when they're not oblivious blondes and sporting fine fabrics), so he clearly has experience etc, and I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that he's attracted to Izzy, and that Izzy's attitude and personality is, actually, something Ed is and has always been into (which would also make the intimacy of the toe scene even more chilling but let's not go too deep about that here).

To dig into the idea of that further, it wouldn't surprise me if the "Izzy, I want you to handle this yourself," "Oh, Edward, can't I just send the boys? 🥺" and the "you are an insane shell of a man posing as blackbeard!" "😏 i'm not blackbeard, he is. I'm stede, remember~?" could actually be their idea of flirting, something they've always done. Except, as I've said up there already, Izzy was genuinely riled up because Ed had sacrificed multiple of their crew to this insanity and was highly likely about to get everyone killed by the Spanish, so although the flirting was familiar and slightly pleasant, it couldn't continue.

Which brings us back to the actual topic at hand, which is that if Ed is into the guy who told Blackbeard to go suck eggs in hell, and Ed is into Izzy's attitude, it stands to reason that if Stede actually let his bitchy side out around Ed and where Ed can see it, and actually allowed the guy to see him be "go suck eggs in hell"!Stede, Ed would be fucking losing his shit over how into Stede he is.

(There's a lot of chemistry between Ed and Stede, but in season 1 it's very sweet and gentle? I love Blackbonnet, but there's not a lot of crackle between them. I don't feel like they'll be ripping each other's clothes off in desperation, which is something I'd really like to see lmao. It's sweet, it's a cute first love that feels like it's between thirteen year olds, which makes sense because they're both experiencing love for the first time! Again, this isn't a bad thing, and I like it as an establishing moment for them, but they are grown men, and Ed has been flirting his ass off with Stede since the moment he met him trying to get that man to fuck him, and I hope that in season 2 the tension between them from Ed going Kraken and trying to kill Stede's crew, and Stede having bailed off on him, will allow in a sort of almost-lovers-to-adversaries-to-lovers pipeline that'll let them be crackly and show a physical and sexual side of their excellent chemistry.)

But Stede doesn't want to let Ed see that side of him because I imagine it never went down very well with Mary or the rest of the society he was meant to be a part of. Stede literally had two modes at the party, one was "tries to fit in, fails horribly" and the other was "goes full bitch and everything burns because of it", so I don't think his full bitch mode went well in the years before he met Ed, and also Ed was completely enamored with Stede just from knowing he 'passive aggression'-d the party guests into self-immolation.

So, I just imagine Izzy getting in a tizzy and he's yelling at Stede and Stede just lets rip and bitches right back, and Ed is looking between the two of them like "what." and afterwards, when Stede has established Ed was very turned on by him being an abrasive shit, he's just like, "You like it when I... act like Izzy?"

and the bottom falls out of Ed's entire world

Because I mean, yeah? You're telling me that Izzy wouldn't tell some pompous pirate who thinks he owns the place to tell his boss to go suck eggs in hell if some dude came along to demand Izzy go to his boss's ship? He absolutely would!

So then you have Stede realizing it's actually okay to not spend his entire life trying to be Sweet and Kind and Caring and Placid and Even-Tempered and Nice, that there's more to him than being nice.

And I would argue that a big downfall of Stede on that beach with Ed is that he thinks he has to be nice all the god damn time. You rewatch that scene as Ed is gushing about running away to China and how he'll go get a dinghy and they'll go and they'll be together. Stede's holding himself really tiny, almost childlike actually, and he's quiet and distracted and the best he can offer Ed in return to the idea of China is, "I think so?"

and to me that reads as someone who is not comfortable being honest about what he wants, needs and feels. Which ties right back in to your message in this ask about how Stede isn't honest with Ed, because it's true. I don't think it's Ed's fault Stede doesn't feel comfortable being honest about how he's feeling, mind, I think Stede is just... very used to being carried away by the currents? The biggest thing he ever did that wasn't that is something that hurt his family and nearly got him and half his crew killed (running away). In the flashbacks when he offers his hope of running away to sea up to Mary and she gets upset with him, his instinct is, "I'll get it stopped," and he may not have actually done that, but he said what he thought she wanted to hear, which was that he'd give that idea up.

Stede said he'd run away to China with Ed because he didn't feel comfortable admitting he didn't want that. Stede wants to be a pirate! He doesn't want to give the life up, he only just got the life he's been dreaming of and how he feels about Ed doesn't change that. More than that, he was already feeling fucked up over hurting so many people, including his family, and he already was thinking he should probably go home and try and fix the damage he caused. He loves Ed, I truly believe that, but he didn't want to run away to China. He wanted to sit on that beach with Ed for a while longer, then escape Privateering Academy and go back to the Revenge, or maybe go back to Barbados and fix his mistakes. He didn't want to go to China but he said he would anyway.

He's not dishonest, he doesn't seem to lie to Ed (or anyone, I've talked about this before), but he does put on a placid smile and stay nice and try not to hurt people with his words, probably because he's been hurt by words so much in his life, he doesn't want to perpetuate that further, and because he was raised to be placid and nice. His "I think so?" is probably him trying so fucking hard to be honest, but instead of his doubts coming out, all he manages is, "I think so?"

So Stede should be able to learn to not always be nice all the time, and then you have Ed realizing that ah, shit, he is into abrasiveness which, ah, is Izzy's calling card, and Izzy still just blinking because Stede met his fire and anger with his own (which must be quite something considering how rough Izzy can get, you tell me he wasn't getting a bit of something sizzly out of his encounters with Stede in 1x02 and 1x03. The way he growls out, "It's Izzy," is just. Mwah.) and that was kinda hot too.

and then there's just; communication time. Because Stede might not feel comfortable telling Ed what he's feeling, but he might just yell it at Izzy, who will happily also yell back, and yell his feelings at Ed, who often tells Stede his feelings.

So yes, that's quite a closed loop and I am into it anon. And also the way you framed it as Stede being on the outs with Ed and letting Izzy in because of it.

But also:

Izzy not sharing absolutely anything bc after the finale he doesn't trust anyone anymore much less Stede.

mm, yes, good soup. Someone in the tags of one of my posts said if they were Izzy they'd never speak again and that really stuck with me.

This response turned a bit rambly, I apologize for that, I just got talking I guess 😂