#sorry we don't all love the gay angel and demon show

[seb-reads31]

Hello! I have a juicy one shot request for you today, full of angst!

It's angel dust x male reader and goes as follows:

Reader and angel were both part of the mafia and secretly became a couple for quite some time but reader died in a shootout a couple of years before angel's death and both angel and reader assume that the other got sent to heaven. Many years pass and by pure chance they meet at a bar but after so many decades in hell they don't really recognize eachother (that and the fact that angel is a spider demon dude helps with him not being very similar to his living self), later that night reader is in bed and he realizes "HOLY SHIT WAS THAT ANTHONY" and immediately runs to the hotel to find angel who also just realized that he met reader just a few hours later. They reunite and cry tears of joy after too many years spent alone in hell

Hope this wasn't too long of a request lol, let me know if i broke any of your rules so that next time i'll be more careful, with that said have a nice day!

Cautions - Drug use, shooting, death, cursing, sad angel 😭, mention of angel oding from drugs, MALE READER - fem DNI this is for the gay guys, crying, both sad and happy, reader being a bartender down in hell, Valentino, SPOILERS FOR EPISODE 6, Angel arguing with Valentino

Type - oneshot

Genre - angst to fluff <33

Comments - Nahh, you're good man. No rules broken yet 🤧 BUT OMG I LOVE THIS it's so cute but it's gonna make me wanna cry 😭 (testing out banners, thoughts? Made by me btw in PicsArt) and omg I'm so sorry for being dead 😔 AND, I'm basing this partially on episode 6 where Charlie goes to Heaven. I low-key hate the ending, it feels rushed but I'll probably end up rewriting it later (I'm gonna start adding word counts ISTG)

Till death do us part

Your whole body felt so hot, your heart thumping so loudly in your chest it almost gave you away. You can barely breath, not wanting to give not only your position away, but Anthony's.

It all went wrong.

The information given to both of you was fake, you were set up. They were gonna kill you and him if you were caught. You only had 3 bullets left in your gun, and there were about 5 guys looking for you and Anthony. Shit...

The two of you were hiding behind large crates, trying to come up with a plan and quick. There was an exit to your right, but it would force you to pass by an open area where the guys hunting you down would see you. Trying to make a run for it wouldn't go well, they would just shoot you down. Trying to lay low would just lead to the inevitable, them catching and beating the both of you half to death. But maybe..

"Damnit!" Anthony softly muttered, breaking your line of thought. "What're we gonna do?" All you could do was look at him, with the softest look in your eyes as you told him the only plan you could think of, "We need a distraction."

He was.. confused for a moment, but he quickly caught on as he saw you prepping yourself to run out the opposite way the exit was, but he stopped you by grabbing your shoulder. "I- no! I'm not about to let you get yourself killed just to save my ass!" The trembling hand on your shoulder was an easy sign that he didn't want to leave you here by yourself.

"Anthony, we don't have another choice.." You turned around and placed a hand on his cheek as you continued, "we're sittin' ducks here, and I refuse to let you get caught by these fuckers." There was a determined look in your eyes, but also a softness deep down that showed how much you cared for the mafia boss's son.

"Oh, and I'm just supposed to let you die?" Anthony was on the verge of tears, because he knew you were right, but he didn't want you to get caught by his family's rivals just to get beaten or worse.

"I can escape, you just have to believe in me. Can you do that for me, my angel?" You could feel tears prick your eyes as well, but you forced them back with a soft smile as you leaned your forehead against Anthony's, but all he could do was worry and think the worst. But he nodded, giving you one final passionate kiss before he let you go.

"Don't die on me, got that?" Anthony looked stern, but the tears in his eyes told a different story. As you nodded, you could hear the footsteps and jeers of your rivals get closer, this was your only chance to get Anthony, your angel, out of this mess.

You jumped out, letting your last bullets fly strategically as Anthony ran under the radar, through the door, and into the outside as quickly as he could. Every shot he heard made his heart sink, but he still held out hope. You promised him after all.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Angel Dust sat straight up in his bed, panting softly as he woke up from that nightmare. The day he lost his everything.

He didn't notice until fat nuggets licked his face to try and comfort him, but tears were running down his cheeks from the painful memories. He remembered that day like it was just yesterday, even after so many years had passed.

Angel sat up, wiping away any left over tears to start getting ready for the day.

After he finished his morning routine, he slowly walked down the stairs to the main lobby of the Hazbin Hotel and was greeted by Charlie's smiling face and overly excited personality.

Her voice was too loud, considering he was still hungover from the night before, but had a new outlook on life and it was thanks to Husk. "Mornin' Char, we doin' anything today?" Angel yawned, stretching both pairs of arms and arching his back slightly.

"Yep! 'Cause I've got some big news for everyone! Speaking of which, could you sit in the main room until I get everyone? I still need to find Alastor and Husker before I announce it." She looked like she could barely contain her excitement as she ran off before Angel Dust could answer. But he shrugged, sitting down on the plush sofa and chose to scroll through voxtigram to pass the time.

About 10 minutes later, Charlie had arrived with Husker in tow, Alastor appearing from the shadows not too long after. "Alright everyone! Today, I would like to introduce you to.." Charlie paused, to build suspense, until she pulled out a strange looking man from somewhere. You. "Our newest patron!"

You waved, albeit awkwardly at the strange group of sinners. You weren't new to hell, far from it, but there were only a few you really recognized. Husker, your bartending buddy from a few years ago that you met at a bar you worked at. And Alastor, him being the radio demon and all.. But everyone else, as far as you knew, you had no history with.

Before you could try leaving the room to escape the awkwardness, Charlie nudged you slightly. "Go on, introduce yourself!" She was so sweet it was hard to say no, if we're also not counting that Vaggie was staring at you with a small glare.

"Uh, hi?" Is how you started, but continued even after you heard Alastor chuckle. And while Angel couldn't help but feel a little.. off when you said your name, it being very familiar, but he shrugged and put on his classic porn star persona as he introduced himself to you.

"Nice to meetcha~ I'm Angel Dust, but you can call me yours," he winked at you as others groaned but you couldn't help but feel as if he was familiar as well.. it was probably nothing though. You did have a dream about how you died last night, so it's just a weird coincidence.

As everyone else introduced themselves, they began to leave, but the ones that stayed were Charlie, Vaggie, Alastor, Husk sort of as he went back to his bar, and Angel Dust following him. You stay in the main part of the lobby as you converse with Alastor and Charlie, them telling you a bit more about the hotel.

Over at the bar, Angel couldn't help but stare at you, barely even touching his drink. "Alright, why are you staring at the new guy?" As much as Husk prided himself on being able to read people, Angel was throwing him off with how quiet he was being, barely registering that Husk spoke to begin with.

"Huh? Oh, he just.. reminds me of someone." He barely looked at Husk when he answered, keeping his puzzled gaze on you. "From when you were alive?" Husk was curious, and he may or may not've noticed how you looked at Angel Dust when you were introduced to the staff and patrons.

Angel nodded, but let out a small sigh. "Meh, I'll think of who he reminds me of eventually." He chugged the last of his drink before standing up, presumably to go to his room. As he began walking, you couldn't help but watch him, wondering why his voice and demeanor was so familiar.

Alastor noticed, and him being him, decided to poke a little fun at you. "Oh my, are we falling for another patron my good fellow?" His static voice made you jump slightly, as he was just sitting quietly as Charlie rambled on before. But you were quick to shake your head, denying the radio demon's claim.

"No, no. He's just.. familiar is all. Probably just deja vu. Besides, my partner when I was alive might be in heaven, he's the only one for me." There was a small smile on your face as you thought of your sweet Anthony, completely unaware of what the future held.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A few days had passed, and you and Angel Dust had become pretty good friends. While he would flirt with you on occasion, it was all in good fun.

Everyone in the hotel could see how close the two of you had gotten in the short time you've been here, it would've been impossible to notice! How you two just, clicked. No one could understand why, but you balanced each other nicely.

Angel was already falling into a routine with you, unconsciously of course, but there was always a lingering guilt in the back of his mind as he thought of his lover when he was alive. He was redeeming himself for him after all. No matter what he did over those days, he couldn't help but develop feelings for you.

You felt the same way as Angel, unknowingly. You loved Anthony with all your heart, and just knew he was up in heaven waiting for you. But Angel.. well, he was not only drop dead gorgeous, but he showed his real self with you. It was hard to not fall for Angel's charismatic nature, and it reminded you of Anthony's personality.. odd, but not uncommon. Sometimes people have the same humor, way of talking, and favorite drink as others that they never even knew. Right?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It's been a week now, and you and the gang are at the club! Paid by Charlie while she was up in heaven of course.

The night was great! You all were enjoying yourselves with some shots, and watching poor Sir Pentious fail to woo Cherrie Bomb several times.

During the night, you and Angel being the most sober were trying to keep Nifty under wraps as she continuously causes chaos. First she starts raking some loan shark's shots into a garbage bag, then she finds the cleaning closet and tries to steal the chemicals hiding in there, then she's left with Husk who is forced to baby sit her.

And now, Angel and Cherri were getting into a small disagreement, along with Husker.

"Y'know, we can do this fucking shit every fuckin' night!" Cherri yelled over the music in the club. It's clear that Angel was done, Husker included and Niffty was drunk.

But even with Angel's sour expression, she continued. "You don't have to spend all of your off hours 'working on yourself' you little bitch."

Husky was quick to shut that down though. He knows the issue, and he expressed that. "The hotel isn't a problem in his life, it's-" he paused, not quite finding the word as Angel looked away, but quickly saw a man that he truly hated. Before Husk could say something, the spider sinner spoke with a grave tone. "Valentino." "Exactly!" Husker finally continued, unaware of who Angel saw, and only you put the pieces together, but didn't want to interrupt what was happening. Not until you needed to though.

"So why don't you-" Husk continued, trying to give Cherri a piece of his mind before Angel stopped him again. "No, Valentino," and he pointed to a large crowd, the moth overlord in the center of it with two others in his arms.

Angel was clearly disturbed, seeing his boss at the club when he's supposed to be relaxing. "Let's get the fuck out of here- come on." He began walking and you followed suit, wanting to make sure Angel wasn't alone. Husker and Cherri can handle themselves after all. But.. "Where's Niffty?"

The question startled Husker, who was holding the bug just moments ago, but you managed to catch a glimpse of her.. going towards Valentino, muttering the word 'bad boy' along the way. "Uhh, Angel?" You quickly pointed out where she went, and Angel's eyes widened even further.

Angel immediately went after her, pushing through the crowd as best as he could, you following right after him. You've heard a story or two from Angel himself about how awful the overlord was, and you refused to let him get his hands on the spider you've gotten so close to.

He was angry, not his usual charming self, pushing and cursing at people with a quieter voice trying to get to Niffty. When he did catch her, it stopped him right Infront of Valentino himself, the man not sparing a second to greet Angel Dust.

"Holy shit, Angel Dust? What are you doing here baby?~" he cooed, surprised to see his star at the club as well. "You didn't get enough dick today?" He made a suggestive gesture, clearly teasing Angel even though he knew how hard he worked him earlier.

"Funny." Angel said in a monotone voice, nowhere near amused with the joke or with Valentino. You could tell that he just wanted to take Niffty and get back to the hotel. But Valentino wasn't about to let that happen, not yet. "Who's this chiquita?" Gesturing at Niffty, who was clearly twitching at the thought of getting closer to the 'bad boy.'

"You bringing me fresh meat?" The implication was disgusting, and you almost spoke up when Niffty lunged a bit at Valentino, trying to bite him.

He made another joke, something about a kink, but Angel was clearly tired and just wanted to sleep. "Fuck off Val." He muttered turning to leave but Val was not happy. "Excuse me?"

You expected Angel to just walk, but he doubled down. Which was kind of hot. "I said fuck off!"

"I may have to put up with your bullshit, but you ain't fucking with any of my friends." He was stern, but setting a very clear boundary. It reminded you so much of.. wait, Anthony?

"You forget who you're talking to?" Valentino was fuming now, not used to Angel fighting back. He quickly stood up, using the smoke of his cigarette to make a chain on one of Angel Dust's wrist, pulling him close. "I own you bitch."

Angel looked scared again, and you stepped closer, ready to throw hands, and Valentino noticed but didn't back down. "Yeah, you do. In the studio, and you can do anything you want to me there, just like our deal says."

You were proud of him right now, but also sad. This is your Anthony. The man you were trying to get redeemed for. He was down here in hell, where he didn't belong. "But out here, I get to do what I want. So once again, fuck off." You saw Valentino raise his hand, going to slap him, and you moved quickly, but not quick enough. "Angel!" You called out, seeing Niffty fling out of his arms and Angel bleeding slightly from the harsh hit.

You wanted to rip Valentino limb from limb, but that wouldn't make it any better for Angel. He needed you, and you needed to make sure that he was okay.

Instead of pummeling Valentino, you went to Angel, pulling him into your arms as you checked his face, just like you did when you both were alive. "Enjoy the rest of your night, bitch, because I'm going to enjoy making you pay for it tomorrow." Both you and Angel glared at the moth demon, and you finally had it.

"You may own Angel now, but I swear that I'll make you pay in the future. Watch your back you bald headed fuck."

You gently lifted Angel up to his feet, holding him close as you hear Cherri mutter 'dickhead' behind you, also worried for Angel. "Fuck it, it was worth it." He muttered, leaning into you and wiping the blood from his face away. "You did good kid," Husk said, patting him on the shoulder as you went to Cherri's table. But not before Niffty ripped some of Valentino's neck fluff, making him scream girlishly.

Cherri split off from your group, with Sir Pentious finally returning, and you all went back to the hotel. It had been a long night after all, and you were all laughing along the way.

But when you finally reached the hotel, Husk Niffty and Sir Pentious went to turn in, Angel too but you stopped him. "Hey.. can we talk for a sec?"

Angel thought he had an idea of what you wanted to talk about, so he stayed. "I'm fine, really. You know I'm gonna bounce back, no matter what Val does to me." And while that has been in the back of your mind, you shook your head. "Thanks for the comfort, but that's not it. Angel.. what's your real name?"

If you were right, it would not only fill you with joy, but you'd be so upset. Anthony didn't deserve to be in hell, he was the sweetest person you knew, and was meant to be in heaven. But you held two of his hands nonetheless, giving him both a nervous but hopeful expression.

And Angel.. he was lost, he couldn't tell why you wanted to know his real name, but he also wanted to tell you. "It's.. That's uhm, kinda private babes, why do you wanna know?" He tried laughing it off, even thought about making a weird joke but he could tell that this wasn't the time. "I.. I think we knew each other when we were alive."

You gave his hands a gently squeeze, and unconsciously threaded your fingers with his. "Please.. I just need to know if you're really him." Even though you were desperate, you would never force Angel Dust to tell you. But it didn't hurt to try.

Angel was conflicted. Not just because you were familiar, but he didn't want to be heartbroken if he got his hopes up. He wanted you to be his lover from when he was alive, but he also didn't. You were supposed to be in heaven, and he's supposed to be trying to redeem himself to be with you again. You sacrificed yourself to save him after all, those bastards in heaven would be lucky to have you.

"Anthony." Angel was taking a leap of faith, watching you carefully.

Your eyes welled up with tears, and you took one of your hands to place it onto his fuzzy cheek, stroking it gently with your thumb. Then suddenly, you pulled the taller spider into an embrace, fully letting your tears flow down your cheeks.

No words needed to be spoken. All the two of you needed was to be in each other's arms, finally reunited after so many years of believing the other was in heaven. You both sobbed, holding the other tightly as if he'd disappear. And from this moment onwards, you swore silently to protect your angel from anything. No matter the cost.

<3

[sprnklersplashes]

starting to wonder if we're going to make fun of disney adults so hard that we go right back to cringe culture

I saw a video of a girl getting excited at the eras tour and I looked at the comments and they were all varations of "so a singer sang a song at a concert and that's revolutionary?" or "it's giving disney adult". because how dare someone be happy and excited at a concert. that they paid money to go to. and is for a singer they are a fan of.

you either kill cringe culture for everything or nothing, it's not just for the things you personally enjoy.

[weirdly-specific-but-ok]

pt XII good omens sEAsOn 2 (the non-traumatic part) episode 1

Alright yes I know, I know, it's been two days since the livestream. I was reading fanfiction. Don't blame me, love made me crazy, and all that. I'm enjoying myself as much as I can before we get to the season 2 finale. But here we go, season 2, episode one, maggots:

[on reading this back after finishing, a lot of text is my being in love with Crowley. mainly, points 3, 4, 9, 14, 17, 18, yes I have issues, feel free to skip that for an absolutely concise and precise summary]

Before the livestream starts, everyone decides that there will be no spoilers whatsoever on the chat, even hidden with the black, because I have a tendency to keep clicking and revealing them. I'm sorry, temptation and all. I have emotional support fruit, an apple, two kiwis, two sapotes and two bananas.

When the livestream starts, it has to be restarted, because I am an incompetent nincompoop and have somehow managed to muck up my settings. And it is absolutely imperative that I watch the opening scene.

So then I do. And immediately have to consume my emotional support apple because I am so fucking in love with Crowley. Already? someone asks. Yes bloody already, I need that apple.

Thanks, guys. I'm broken. Crowley. Just. She looks so peaceful and untraumatised, so delighted with the plans, so full of wonder at what she's creating. Let there be light, she says, and rather than seeing Crowley turn off a streetlight with a flick of his fingers, we get to see her create nebulas. Aziraphale looks at her and he's just instantly so spellbound, and who would bloody blame him? His wings just do a slight dip of realisation that he's fucked when Crowley says the gorgeous line. Look at Crowley. Worried about the apocalypse. Smiling at Aziraphale, and we can see Azi's concern because something as pure as that has to be protected and Aziraphale knows what Heaven will do to Crowley if she dares to ask questions. Crowley is angelic and filled with light and Aziraphale sees that and tries to keep her safe with his words.

Hey spoiler alert, it doesn't work, Crowley's wings are greying even as she protects Azi and Crowley falls and I hate everything and I am filled with unbridled rage.

UNDERSTAND? RAGE.

I am speculating how much pain and torture Crowley went through when she fell into Hell that first time. I am told to not ask questions I don't want answers to.

Maggie sells records, Aziraphale is a cutiepie, and Maggie is very gay for Nina.

Crowley is lounging on a park bench, suit and skinny tie, just being all sexy and demonic and probably contemplating nihilism.

Crowley spreads awareness about duck health. No bread, guys. Frozen peas. He also angsts a lot to Shax (whom I keep mixing up with Michael) about the meaning of life. Someone points out that this is very Barbie of him. "do you ever think about death". Ah, Crowley.

More lesbians gaying. I would kill for Nina's hair.

JIMBRIEL IN THE HOUSE. I WON'T SAY ANYMORE ABOUT HIS ENTRANCE BECAUSE THIS IS NOW A TOPIC OF CONTROVERSY. BUT JIMBRIEL IN THE HOUSE.

Aziraphale, ah I love him, absolutely fucking panics and has the loading symbol over his angelic little head at all times. FINALLY, THIS SHOW IS A COMEDY.

Crowley is leaning on his Bentley and mmmmhm his arms and his lounging and his personality I am back to crunching on my temptation emotional support apple.

Sorry back to the summary. Jim finds Aziraphale funny and says he loves him. Someone points out that this was the fandom upon encountering my dumbass self. "You're funny Asmi we love you."

Aziraphale is a little bitchy babygirl, really just enough of a bastard to be worth knowing. Just absolutely slaying through every Jimbriel scene. 100000/10.

Six shots of fucking espresso in a big cup. Crowley, I love you. Can I love Crowley any more than this? Yes I can. My love for Crowley is like the universe, infinite and yet ever-expanding, explosive with entropy.

Crowley holds the door open for Aziraphale and holds his plate and honestly what absolute husband (gn) behaviour.

CROWLEY MEETS JIMBRIEL WHO IS FUCKING DUSTING AND LEAPS BACKWARD AND JUST RELIVES TRAUMA WHILE JIM IS CHILLING AND AZIRAPHALE IS STILL GAY PANICKING. I LOVE THIS SHOW.

MARRIAGE QUARRELS ABOUT ADOPTING JIM, JUST ANOTHER DAY IN THE FELL-CROWLEY HOUSEHOLD.

Coffeeshop AU lesbians time.

Heaven is horrible.

MURIEL IS BABY I LOVE THEM HELLO CUTIEPATOOTIE.

There is an ethereal paper file.

Beezlebub beezles their way into Crowley's car and is very concerned in Hell about finding Jimbriel.

Nina's partner is a toxic ass don't worry about it.

Sulky Crowley says he's back and apology dance time mmmhm.

Miracle hide Jimbriel time, but they've got to be subtle. They do the miracle. Jim is glad to have friends.

They are very proud of themselves for their subtle miracle.

THEY ARE SO FUCKING USELESS. FUCKING USELESS LITTLE GAYASS DISASTERS JESUS LORD IN HEAVEN. LITERALLY IN HEAVEN ALARM BELLS ARE EVERYWHERE.

GREAT JOB, GAYS. GREAT JOB.

End of episode one. Take this screenshot.

[sweetfirebird]

After reading at least two (original) fics where the authors made angels/the christian canon real, and clearly did absolutely no further thinking about how that would relate to or imply anything about colonialism and non-European cultures, I just really want to tell you how amazing it is that you put so much thought into the Beings universe and those subjects in that universe. It’s just really nice to see someone being thoughtful about the implications of their worldbuilding

oh wow. I wonder about that kind of thing even when I am watching like, an old Buzzfeed Unsolved and Ryan starts talking about "demons" and never clarifies what he means by it but presumably the Christian idea of demons. And he's clearly never thought about like... any other views about such things.

And that's just me watching the silly ghosthunting show! So authors who do that in fiction and don't even consider the implications even a little bit???? Baffling to me.

(sidenote: consider the implications makes me thinks of It's Always Sunny. every time)

You don't have to do a lot, authors! And if you do... well even Tolkien with all his worldbuilding sometimes just sort... handwaved it. Building a whole universe is hard!

Ghostbusters! the 1984 comedy movie! about busting ghosts! even thinks about this a little bit by having a Catholic bishop? archbishop? cardinal? be there!! Anyway HE gets asked about all the ghosts and the implications of them, and his answer is a joke but clearly it occurred to the writers as something someone ought to think about a little if ghosts and aliens? alt dimensional beings! and Sumerian gods are real.

This is similar to the issue I had with that urban fantasy m/m I was reading the other night. *If* that world was one in which the fae are actually the ones in charge (I say if because the author didn't make it super clear) then why... would the world be almost exactly the same as it is now? Colonialism, capitalism, America's history (presumably, from the references) all the same??? Not even a little change except I guess it was queer normative now (except still sexist so you figure it out)

I know it's fun to say oh what if magical creatures were real and very gay and they fall in love all the time. Or what if omegaverse genders and heats were real in the modern world. But then like... things would be different. Not necessarily better, but different.

If you don't stop to think about that for a second, you get something like the book I just read, or you know, the Harry Potter universe. Where powerful beings existed who could have stopped many horrible things from happening... but just didn't for some reason. And yet we are expected to like these creatures and find them sympathetic.

(Though this author also kept putting weird magical species-racism in the story and never examined that either. So. Perhaps I'm expecting too much.)

Anyway. A rant. I'm so sorry. :) Thank you! :):):)

[cheeekycharchar]

Even more S2 speculations but.. "CLUE" edition! lol

Don't forget that the entire point of the game/movie of "CLUE" is a "WHO DONE IT?" type mystery which we already know our fav Ineffable Husbands are trying to figure out the mystery of amnesiac/possibly human Gabriel... BUT...

To start, I believe I read that sadly, Witchfinder Sergeant Shadwell's actor, Michael Mckean, wasn't able to make a comeback this season but he WAS the hilarious "Mr. Green" character in the 1985 movie.

And his character in 2/3 of the alternate endings was being blackmailed for being a closeted gay government employee.

And in the real ending.. he was an undercover agent.

Take with that what you will *cough* lol ;)

Then there's the big "love song" in the middle of the movie "Sh-Boom" by The Chords from 1954.

"Life could be a dream, Sh-boom, if I could take you to a paradise up above. If you will tell me I'm the only one that you love. Life could be a dream, sweetheart, hello, hello again. Sh-boom and hopin' we'll meet again, boom."

The lyrics alone give me hope and fear for what could happen between certain characters this upcoming season..

But it's highly likely we're going to hear this particular song at some point in season 2.

But here is another 1950's hit song about love that's taken too long to come to realization like Buddy Holly's 1957 hit, "Everyday" that they've been teasing us in the trailer/promos.

The 1950's will definitely hold significance somehow..

Because between the 40's.. the Blitz.. church.. books.. wine date.. and the 60's.. the church heist.. the holy water thermos.. the "you go too fast for me"... sandwiched right between is the good ol' golden oldies of the 50's! ;)

Overall, I don't think we're going to get alternate endings like the movie per-say but maybe focus more on the "who done it? with what? and where?" type of fun mystery on our hands.

You can't trust anyone this season! Everyone's a suspect!

And if the apocalypse was really just a "red herring" as they say.. someone is doing all of this as a distraction to something bigger to come.. some kind of ineffable long drawn out plan that's been in the works probably as far back as the Fall or earlier perhaps..

And a certain arch angel and demon lord.. were trying their best to go against this unknow ineffable plan to follow the "Great Plan" last season.. and we know one loses their memory and the other loses their original corporation in this upcoming season.. hmm..

Overall, remember.. Gabriel once said..

"God does not play games with the universe"

and.. what is "CLUE"? A GAME! I wonder... ;)

Sorry.. combining my favorite movie and tv show plus mystery.. it's what I love best! hmmm!

WAIT AND SEE, INDEED! \^0^/

[theonevoice]

Sorry if this is a little foggy and poorly worded, but I have been sitting on this thought all day, after working on a scene from Mamoru Hosoda's Wolf Children, and might as well put it here. The scene in question is the one where little wolf-boy Ame, sweet child who loves stories and picture books and who struggles to come to terms with his hybrid identity, one day while out in the woods with his sister and his mother on a sort of wolf-training excursion suddenly starts crying. And the reason why is crying is that, in all the picture books, he keeps seeing the wolf depicted as the bad guy that ends up shooed away or killed. And because of such representations, now he wants to repress his wolf identity, that has always been a lively and funny, although hard to figure out, part of his life. He is terrified of being what he is because the narrow representations that he has access to tell him that the world does not like people like him. It's a powerful little moment in a beautiful movie, that always makes me tear up, and if you missed it I highly recommend you watch it. If you are not into anime movie and just curious of the scene, I found a clip on YouTube:

Anyway, this scene made my lonely braincel twitch, and I was thinking, now that we are approaching the end of this glorious - as far as the mediascape is concerned - year 2023, that many people underestimate the enormous power of fantasy narratives in expanding the borders of gender (and minority in general) representation. Having an author canonically establish that certain fixed categories do not apply to one or more characters for in-universe reasons takes away that nasty oblique excuse that some people use to deny and disparage diversity in media (where I live they usually sound like "they only made this character a person of color to please the woke liberalsTM even if the historical context doesn't allow it", or even, comically, "it is narratively implausible that this character is or shows to be queer but they were forced to do it by THE GAY LOBBY" - yes, this is an actual conspiracy theory loudly promoted by Italian journalists and politicians, and yes, I am personally deeply ashamed by it). Obviously, almost none of said people has the faintest actual interest in narrative aspects, but they still use the excuse to pollute the public discourse and attack minorities. And I am aware that there is a possible dark pitfall here: in the best possible world, we should not need to take the route of fantasy settings to have something that should never have been denied in the first place, but from a pragmatical standpoint it does work. Having authors saying "nope, sorry not sorry, they are wolf-children / angels and demons / weird vampires / anachronistic pirates in a fantasy context so your self-proclaimed laws of plausibility do not apply and you can shove them where the sun does not shine while we enjoy the show and put this beautiful, funny, delicate, deep and sad things on screen", is like having a cultural picklock which is also a cultural battering ram thrusting the representation-door open. Shows like Good Omens, Our Flag Means Death, What We Do in the Shadows (and their fandoms with their massive collective creative endeavour), by offering the symbolic shield of a fantasy setting can establish a safe space where 1. queer people (especially young people but not only) can finally recognize themselves and stop feeling like they are alone and don't have the words and images they need to describe themselves; 2. not queer people can get used to a larger set of possible identities and not only realise that 100% of said idenities are in fact - hold on to your butts - still people with thoughts and feelings and needs, but also, through the power of mimesis, acquire a deeper understanding of forms of life that they don't directly experience. Including, hopefully, understanding how similar we all are when it comes to us being ultimately a bunch of naked apes who walk on this spinning rock trying to be as little miserable as possible.

Again, sorry if this sounds clumsy and blunt, given how delicate and complex this subject is (one does not simply walk into Mordor talk about the lives and needs of other people like that), but I had this thought stuck in my shallow brain wrinkles and I wanted to try and put it into words.

[vinxwatches]

watching good omen season 1

ep 1 pilot

haven't seen a lot of it, mostly that people like it, that it's made by people people really like and that it's gay (or at least people make it gay) so you know, good pick for me. and i just watched to animations/animatics on youtube with bad endings and bad endings fuck me up, so hopefully this is happier. intro is a fucking banger. also god has a fem voice? nice. accurate skin colour for the earliest humans. not surprised, but appreciated. making fun of theology and great banter? i love it.

ominous picnic basket. oh... actually quite biblically fitting it seems. i REALLY hope they don't expect me to remember these names too well. many of the characters seem fun though.

of course the american politician says bs like "a regular y chromosome son". which i'm sure has not been tested as you 1: don't know the gender yet. 2: phenotype does not denote genotype.

i wonder who and how they'll figure out who has the wrong baby. "i don't recall what horror of history we had a lunch over, but i do recall what we had." the BEST dynamic.

will they even figure out they got the wrong one? ok, i know that working with an actual 5 year old would be a nightmare... but that kid is like 12.

well done making both heaven and hell look like shit. do you want grime overpopulating or empty, liminal, office spaces?

brilliant end of episode 1.

ep 2 the book

damn the forces of hell are so bloody rude and evil. and so many quick jokes.

question: what are the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse supposed to be in christianity? both biblically and in modern belief? they are separate from devils and angels.

i love a witch that also uses an ipad in her rituals.

"sorry, right number" seriously the humour in this show is so brilliant. i really hope the story is able to match it.

ep 3 hard times

a black knight shrugging is way too funny. i love these two. just two old friends helping each other out, it's just that that's diametrically opposing one another. the angel doing some tempting, the demon some miracles. and upper management doesn't care.

awh, they are just so cute together.

excuse me you are playing intro now? 28 minutes in? that's not an intro. that's a bloody intermission!

they really succeed at making heaving seem so extremely bad. extremely wide shot or extreme close-up. it's so incredibly uncomfortable.

the prime minister has a nice flat chested fucker in his bed.... good for him if he's not cheating.

"mend it all"/"end it all" whispers. really neat.

ep 4 saturday morning funtime

of course he was condemned for nothing more then asking questions.

ah, they got rid of pestilence to replace them with pollution. it's a good change, but feels pretty pre 2020.

oh no, i find his death so sad. he had a love, why kill him? i know the apocalypse is coming but still.

i still really hope that the presidents son turns out to be trans to just break the things he said at the start. then again it wouldn't really work as it's not the kids he said it about. idk, i guess i hope of screen son turns out to be trans to spite the person that'll never know... yea i'm holding out hope for something that doesn't matter.

azi being send to heaving is SO bad. his bookshop possibly burning down is emotionally worse. it was going to be the last episode of the day. but i started watching because i couldn't deal with bad endings, so i guess i'll have to watch one more.

ep 5 the doomsday option

Azi going full rogue (finally).

man that's the most obvious cold reading ever.

the guard reads a neil gaymen book. cute.

sir... your car is... more then a little on fire.

ep 6 the very last day of the rest of their lives

are we doing a flash back episode for the last episode of the season?

oh, please let him rebuild the car just like i want the bookshop rebuild?

the way to defeat the end of the world is to believe and stand (and i hope work) for a world that wouldn't end. a bit on the nose but very nice.

and of course with Terry Pratched being involved death is not to be defeated, just not hastened along.

a kid not doing the one thing they were supposed to do.... there's a trans/gay message in there. also That's Just What Kids Do! you wanted an 11 year old to do what they were told? that's the first part of the problem.

for a TV series that's a pretty good satan. oh that is SO clever. kind of time fucking, but not really so long as you never introduce time travel so it's only true from now on. oh, is it a nicer ending then i though? YES IT IS! \o/

it "ends" as it starts: with a garden and an apple. ok, make it more explicit why don't you.

oh, you subtle bastards. i love it. other scene's now make more sense too, oh how i love it.

ok, yea it makes sense people go wild over this as it's really bloody great.

[clarajohnson]

the magicians s2e6

quentin coldwater you are so goddamn embarrassing i love you

once again alice is such a fun fucking character. she liked when q did pretend cirque du soleil ????? i could cry !!!!

margo's outfits are improving but i'm looking forward to when we get past the amazon corsets

the only thing better than "no offense q but you're a little crazy right now" is him blithely acknowledging it, "maybe, yeah"

my children loved me i was a good mother!

NIFFIN ALICE I LOVE YOU FOREVER !!!!!!!!!!!!!

i couldn't possibly make fun of q for trying to summon niffin alice like sorry you would do it too for alice quinn

best bitches !!!! they could've parented a demon baby together it would've been okay

okay i think he actually would've liked a unicorn milk latte. or have requested one in earnest at least.

like i need more people calling me daddy!

something hale and summer do is they occasionally adopt the same affect, the same intonation, it's such a subtle thing and it doesn't come up all the time but it so clearly telegraphs that these people are completely tethered to each other

"i know my daughter she's trying to protect us" oh PLEASE

ughhhhhhhhhhh i forgot about loria. oh my god fuck your parents dude. BUT ELIOT DON'T !!!!!

cin-ci-nahhh-tee.

SCREAM at the virgin queen margo

god fillory is so much fun like it's total bullshit all the time but it's also SO fun i enjoy that half of the plot so much

what's fen's title? do we know? queen consort? she has to have a title right

"if ess was a girl and you found pussy you know interesting in a sometimes you like thai food kind of way"

not to do this because i do this constantly all the time but margo hanson is my best friend i'm in love with her

don't worry the thing will not be born AUGH once again i feel like this is such a randomly traumatic plot to force on julia

niffin alice has terrible posture. somebody get her a better niffin bra!

q thinks people's love for him is so conditional every time it comes up it makes me so sad. also i would like for him to get a better hair routine i know grief and everything but dude it's stringy.

i remember when i first watched this episode i wanted daniel to have died from falling off the ladder he doesn't even deserve all that i was just mad at him for being a shit dad

ess is hot but not hot enough to act like this. you're a virgin to me sweetheart? i think margo should be allowed to kill him.

actually margo should be allowed to kill me if she wants to

queliot obviously first most tragic romance in the magicians but fen/baylor is possibly ranked second when you think about it. wait kady/penny. okay fen/baylor is top three.

JESUS CHRIST I FORGOT ABOUT DANA'S WHOLE THING

even i studied and i'm dead!

it's so sweet that she has dreams about forgetting to study. sorry i feel like somebody applauding disney for having a gay character but i genuinely like the female characters in this show so much. they get to do all kinds of shit! and feel shit!

yeah honestly the reynard plot occasionally veers into an almost anti-choice rhetoric, i could have done without like 90% of this plot

i love asking questions that have a 50/50 shot of being resolved in this episode but do we ever find out who dana's son is

once again! best bitches!

you guys have been so royally fucked with! sometimes the florida jumps out of him

"she never figured out how to be a woman" is such an insane thing to say. the magicians should've dug into motherhood more. haha. wrote a thesis on motherhood voice.

I FORGOT ALICE WAS IN THE TATTOO OH MY GODDDDDDD

cripes reynard is so fucking scary

benedict you are an angel

"we're gonna put our jimmy choos so far up your ass you're gonna taste next season" as a declaration of war is unbelievably good

[ineffectualdemon]

Hi....If you don't mind, can I ask, what are your top 10 (or top 7) favorite media (can be books/ manga/ anime/movies/tv series)? Why do you love them? Sorry if you've answered this question before......Thanks....

Ooo this is a good question but a difficult one to answer but I'm gonna do my best!

Also these are in no particular order cause I just can't rank them

1. Smoke and Mirrors by Neil Gaiman

It's a collection of short stories that I first read as a teenager. It created my love for short stories as a genre and how wonderfully weird they can be. More importantly though the story Changes was the first hint to me that gender wasnt a fixed binary. I read it over and over again on the floor of my bedroom and cried and didn't yet know why. It became incredibly important to me.

2. The Lord of the Rings by JRR Tolkien (both books and the Peter Jackson films)

It's a story about hope in the face of despair and fighting in even when that glimmer of hope has faded. Because at least you can say you tried. At least you did not go quietly into that goodnight. It's a story about found family and companionship and compassion. And god knows I need that

3. Scum Villian's Self Saving System by Mo Xiang Tong Xiu

It's in many ways very shit posty and funny and not for everyone but it's at it's heart a story about the cycle of abuse, of the need to communicate with the people in your life fully and honestly, and love. It's about stopping and listening and opening up your heart. It's also funny as hell and the main character is infuriating and the most queerphobic queer protagonist ever so your milage may vary

4. Kubo Won't Let Me Be Invisible (both manga and anime)

This is my soft comfort pick. It's such a soft story about highschool romance between two characters who take a long time to even realise their feelings. But it's also a story about a boy who has been extremely isolated and alone his whole life being pulled into the world. It's about friendship and kindness and the importance of connections with others as much as it's about the romance. It's extremely cute too and it's my current go to media when I'm feeling sad. The anime only just started so there is only 5 episodes out atm

5. Good Omens by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman (Book)

This is one of the most read books in the house. I fell in love with it as a kid and it's still one of my favourites. It's exciting and funny and an examination in a lot of ways on what it is to be human. It's also in a lot of ways a coming of age story as one of the main characters is a boy who is on the cusp of being a teenager. I love it but there are some bits that are products of the time that it was written and also if you want more of our Demon and Angel duo who carry the story then you might prefer...

6. Good Omens the TV show

It's got everything I love about the book but updated to more modern times. Also more development of Crowley and Aziraphale (the demon and angel) and their relationship. It's very true to the book and what's changed is still fitting to the original. Also reminded me in feel of the first Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy TV show. Which in my opinion is a plus

7. Taskmaster - TV show OG British version

British show where comedians do silly tasks. There are 14 seasons out and it's just very silly and fun and endlessly entertaining

8. Mashle: Magic and Muscles - manga

In a world where everyone has magic one boy doesn't. But he is swole as hell.

There are a lot of reasons I love it but I think I can capture the main reason why with one image:

9. Yuri on Ice - anime

I love it one because I was there when we all realised this was canonically gay and lost our collective shit. I love it because the relationship between Victor and Yuuri felt very authentic and genuine. I love it because the antagonist was Yuuri's own anxiety/insecurities. And it still has one of the best twists I've ever seen in media. Also the music is amazing

10. The Goonies

This movie was a staple of my childhood and is still my biggest comfort media. It's silly and weird but it is like an old soft blanket that I wrap around myself when down

Hope that answers your question! This was fun to do :)

[nocturnal-impala]

I recently found out that FakirxAhiru is supposedly not "canon" because they didn't end with a confession of love or a kiss, and many consider their relationship just friendship or even brother and sister, which surprised me a lot… Since to me it was so OBVIOUSLY canon, every action and interaction between them was sweet and romantic <3, that just because it's not "specified" isn't considered "canon" anymore, it looks silly. I mean, do fans really think that Ahiru admitting that she wasn't in love with Mitho while she kept having moments with Fakir was it a fluke by the creators? And the "I'll always be with you no matter what happens"?? THAT'S A MARRIAGE PROPOSAL NO WAY YOU SEE IT

(Sorry if I sound aggressive, it's just that they frustrate me)

((And yes, I am aware that romance between human and duck is bestiality, I simply imagine their relationship as a asexual relationship, simply enjoying what they have as human and duck…))

(((WHICH IS VERY LITTLE, for which I am so grateful to Zwei<3<3<3<3)))

I mean, I'm super in favor of giving importance to platonic relationships of just friendship, but I didn't get that impression with Fakir and Ahiru<3 (And least siblings lol). I also saw a video of a girl who ship Rue with Ahiru, which is not bad, but ironically I did see those two only as friends (Or just rivals from the few interactions they had in the anime), as LGBT person I love LGBT relationships, but I like that they make more sense and that they don't just ship characters because they look cute together (But yes, my headcanon is that Ahiru is bisexual XD (And maybe Fakir too, all those scenes between him and Mitho they are very queerbaiting LOL))

Ironically, I like Mitho, but it is true that it is very poorly written or could have been developed better, over the years I have seen a huge number of "unemotional" characters that manage to show individual characteristics or make you understand why others characters would give so much for them, but Mitho is simple and purely flat lol, although I have grown fond of how easily he gets into fights when everything is avoided if he listened to Fakir to stay in his room LMAO

P.S: By the way, if you want to make the conversation public, I don't mind

Technically fakiru is not canon as their love is not confirmed. But it's heavily implied so you could call it semi-canon. If the supposed 3rd season happened, I'm positive they would had ended up together. People see things differently. I think Ahiru and Mytho have sibling-vibes more than romance-vibes.

Most ships are fan made and not canon. Fans want something to happen, so they see ”evidence” of that in everywhere (even when it's not there).

I don't concider Fakir's words as a marriage proposal. Like neko-sensei, he could had just said will you marry me if he wanted to propose. Given their age and friend zone status, it sounds out of place too. I see it more as a promise to not leave Ahirur alone even if she's a duck: she doesn't need to stay as a human for him to care for her. Ahiru is afraid of abandoment because ”she's just a duck” no one would pay attention to.

In anime, bestiality is highly controversial. We see all kinds of romantic matches in media, including vampires, werevolves, demons, youkai, mazoku, devils, angels, zombies, spirits, deities, dead people, witches, wizards, people who turn into animals or other forms, monsters, aliens and so on. That's just the way it is. If someone wants to complain about the ”unrealistics” don't pay attention to them. There's no point in arguing with someone whose mind is set to reasoning fiction with the laws of nature.

I'm not into LGBT stuff and sometimes I'm confused why people go back to old series and start giving sexual orientations to the characters. I don't see sexuality as a topic you need to bring up so much. Everyone can love each other, but most of the time gay ships are just fantasies made up by the fans and queerbaites are exactly that; baites to lure you think there's something when there really isn't. It's part of the fanservice, and if people find joy in it then why not.

Mytho can be sweet or annoying. He's the gary-stu and everything is resolved around him. But he's so plain and neutral you can't really hate him. When anyone of the cast starts to take distance to Mytho they actually become more interesting and individual. As the fullfledges prince he's much more interesting.

[touchstoneaf]

Tl:dr... People online can convince themselves of Literally Anything. Even that Aziraphale is *straight*. Which is seriously unfathomable to me.

So, I was watching a clipshow last night about these two on YouTube, and some clearly deluded individual who is obviously an incompetent thinker showed up in the comments to complain that Aziraphale is Not Gay, because he was "not written as such in the book", blah blah blah angels aren't built that way (though he didn't make the same claim for Crowley because, I guess, demon? Doesn't that kind of undermine your point, my man? Because he specifically says in his post that he *does* believe Crowley is in love with Zira).

1. Though I haven't finished reading the book yet, I understand this interpretation is false, or at least kind of open to various interpretations? Which, whatever, people get what they get out of books... or anything for that matter, I guess... And I'm coming to understand from a few posts on here that there's been a lot of back-and-forthing from Neil/Terry on the subject over the years, and thus some people are pissed off about their interpretations from earlier being messed with or whatever?

I definitely understand that, as a person on the ace spectrum. But at the same time, I'm not exclusionary in my thinking, so IMO things can be mutually true at the same time, and don't have to cancel each other out... but that's another discussion.

I also get the annoyance over authorial waffling, and clinging to things you've loved in the past when they're being altered... but that stuff usually doesn't bother me because of the time span involved and the changes in culture; but also because a lot of answers can be both-and, not either/or... especially with characters like these. I'm just happy to have them in a new interpretation wherein I can Feast Greedily upon them and find myself represented in ten different ways. So

Codicil A: I'm sorry if you don't feel represented anymore by these characters, my dude, but frankly, you have enough of those already, and we don't have very many, so shut up and get back in your lane.

Summary 1: let's just be real, here. They're Neil's character, and he's writing them for the show the way he is now for a reason, so your argument is already pretty much not valid, bro.

Obvs there were so many replies to make to that that I couldn't even figure out how to respond to it, LOL. Luckily a lot of people beat me there. But;

Codicil B: I repeat. That book was written 30 years ago, and things have changed a lot. Neil has been writing the show, so you'd think that he knows what he wants to do with his characters. Also, if you're complaining about it based on novel purity... they are two different enterprises, so what even is your point in the first place?

2. More importantly, the fact that this guy can watch 2 whole seasons of Aziraphale being Aziraphale, and looking at Crowley like that, and saying the words he says (the Southern Pansy exchange comes to mind. Or the part where he says Shadwell has the wrong bookshop. Or the part where he never denies the boyfriend thing) and think he's straight in any capacity is beyond my comprehension. You must have had serious training in self-delusion, brochacho.

3. Obviously all of the talk about gender / lack thereof, and attraction / lack thereof because of being angels has something to do with it, because let's be real. You could hash around all of these interesting labels and tags and explanations for things like, you know, Crowley is definitely all of the genders (and probably a couple more we haven't even thought up yet. Creativity & style are the watchwords of that character), so you could list them as just about any sexuality/ romantic orientation, sexual orientation or lack thereof, etc (and frankly, that's part of the fun). But in practice, behavior, body being worn at the time, form and function, etc... Zira presents as male and is in love with someone who at least part of the time presents similarly, if one were to judge from top hats and name choice (honestly I think Crowley just loves fashion and looking fly, in any capacity lol, and so dresses according to his mood, and/or how sweet the fashion is for which gender depending on the time period). Aziraphale never dresses/presents otherwise that I recall, tho. (Probably because he's had approximately one suit since 1800, because it feels nice on his body.)

4. "Gay as a tree full of monkeys on nitrous oxide". That is all. I know that portion of the book is being used in both directions, but it can be interpreted about 500 different ways, so if your interpretation is that he's absolutely not, that interpretation stll hinges on the fact that he's not human. See above, and do we have to go back through that whole dance again? Form and function and behavior... book vs adaptation, yadda.

Summary 2: You have been shouted down by the author himself, and thus you should probably just quit while you're ahead.

And dude still comes up at the end of the second season with this theory that the reason Zira responded the way he did to the kiss is because he was NOT attracted to Crowley?!

I'm actually kind of worried about that person, if they truly think Zira is remotely anything other than a total fruit who loves Crowley to distraction.

[bustyasianbeautiespod]

Episode 72 Transcript: Old Man Yaoi

[intro guitar music]

G: Hello, my name is Grey.

C: And my name is Crystal.

G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen this show several times–

C: And I, someone who only knows the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we are both Asian.

G: Both Asian. For today's episode, we will be discussing Season 4, Episode 12: “Criss Angel is a Douchebag,” written by Julie Siege, directed by Robert Singer. 

C: Oh, I love women! I know I hated women in 4.07, but thanks, Julie Siege.

G: I love this episode.

C: Yeah.

G: I mean [C laughs], okay, I like it the same way I liked last episode, but like, a little bit better.

C: Yeah. Okay, question. Am I the only one who thought for a second there gonna be old man yaoi in Supernatural? [both laughing]

G: No. These three are literally in a polyamorous, gay relationship. They are.

C: Yeah. There's something fruity going on there. Especially between Jay and Charlie. Like, what is going on?

G: [laughing] It literally is so Hannibal-core. Like, he stabs himself so that the other person will die. And then he says, "He gave me a gift, and I just threw it to his face," which is something Hannibal literally tells Will. [both laughing]

C: Oh my god.

G: That was the whole point-

C: When did Hannibal come out?

G: When did Hannibal come out?

C: 2013 to 2015. They fucking stole this. They stole "Criss Angel is a Douchebag." Brian Fuller, answer to Julie Siege.

G: Yeah. [dramatically] "I gave you a gift, and you didn't want it." That was a direct reference to "Criss Angel is a Douchebag." [C laughs] It's- this episode is good. It's funny. I mean, and also like, Ruby is in it for very little, but I actually have some insights into her character that I want to talk about later, when we start talking about the episode. Like, what she does here is super interesting, and- Oh, let's talk about it later. I don't wanna- you know, we should should give the audience what they want all throughout the episode so they keep on listening. Is that how it works? I don't know. I'm a bad podcaster.

C: Sure, probably.

G: Okay, so before we begin, Crystal, what did you know about “CrissAngel is a Douchebag” before you watched it?

C: Literally nothing except that Ruby would be in it at some point.

G: Really? You didn't know about the Chief.

C: Oh! You told me about the Chief. Sorry. Yes, I knew about the Chief because you told me. I didn't know what episode the Chief was gonna be in.

G: I don't remember anything about this episode. Like, absolutely nothing. I knew that Ruby was gonna come because of the "Then" sequence, but prior to that, I just didn't know. I thought it was just gonna be a case episode with nothing happening. But I remember so vividly the title of this episode, and I remember also so vividly that this is where the Chief comes up, which is like the only two things you need from this episode, I guess.

C: It's true.

G: The "Then" sequence is mostly Ruby and Sam, and like, all those stuff. Like, Sam being like, “Oh, she saved me," but also Sam not like being able to kill demons, and Ruby being like, “You need to tone up” and Sam being like, “I'm not going to do that.” And that's where we end at "Then" sequence. We start with a rather lengthy pre-splash screen thing, where basically, there's a guy in a bar. They are at Sioux City. I looked up. Whether this city in Iowa was like, Magic Central. I don't think it is.

C: I don't know anything about Sioux City.

G: I don't really know how to look it up. Because if I look up "Sioux City, Iowa," like, it doesn't say like, "Oh, it's Magician Central." But if I look up "Sioux City, Iowa, magic," it just shows me all the magicians there, and it's like, "No, no, no, that's not what I'm looking for." Do you know anything about Iowa?

C: I think they're just having a conference. I don't know anything about Iowa.

G: Sad.

C: Besides that it is the title of a song by Dar Williams that everyone should listen to.

-

G: We start in Iowa, and you know, we see outside, and there's like a bunch of people doing magic tricks on the street. Whoo! And then we go inside the bar, and there is a guy also doing a magic trick in front of the bartender. And he is old. He is doing card tricks, specifically. And there's a guy just off the side who is in your typical magician garb.

C: Yeah. Party City levels.

G: Yeah. Party City magician garb. And he is heckling this guy, basically. Like, the bartender is not even putting on a- I mean Jay. This guy's name is Jay. - He's not even putting on a show. He's just literally showing tricks to the bartender. And this guy, this asshole is like, “Yeah, why don't you show us another one?” And like, at some point, he fumbles the trick, and Vance, the heckler, is like, “Yeah, you loser." You know. He's so fucking annoying. And then at some point, the bartender goes, "Can you just stop doing that? Leave the old man alone."

C: Which definitely helps him feel better.

G: And then Jay, the old man, was like, "Oh, okay. Guess I'm an old man." He even does this thing where, like, he reveals the trick. Like, the card is in the pocket, and he just keeps going, "Check his pocket! Check his pocket!" He's so unbearable.

We go to a theater, and there is also another young magician. His name is Jeb Dexter. And he is practicing some tricks where - I think it's his grand entrance, and there's just a couple of people in the audience, because this is a practice. And also, heavy metal is playing. I don't think this is heavy metal. I think it's just metal music.

C: I don't know genres very well.

G: I also don't. I don't know why I made that call. [both laugh] But it is metal music, so, you know, and the guy Jeb looks... scene?

C: [laughs] Looks what?

G: He looks like a scene kid. He looks like a scene kid, right?

C: Mm. Well, it's shirtless, leather vest... sort of spiky hair, and [both] eyeliner.

G: Yeah. They're making him out to be a bit of an asshole. Because at some point, he's like, "Cut all this! You're supposed to do this, and you're supposed to do this! Why isn't this happening?" And there are three magicians watching him, and these are the old men yaoi of this episode. [C laughs] So to introduce you to them, it's Vernon, it's Jay, and it's Charlie. And I don't really know how to differentiate them. Basically-

C: Jay's like our main guy. Charlie is his bestie who has definitely explored his body. And Vernon's sorta like, not very nice?

G: He's okay. I feel like he entered the throuple. Like, Charlie and Jay were together first, and then they were like, "Yeah, Vernon."

C: Right. And then they saw Vernon across the bar and liked his vibe.

G: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. They're just I'm talking about how this Jeb Dexter guy is kind of an asshole and they're being mean to him because of his like, flashiness. Like, his outfit and his eyeliner. And Charlie is like, [old man voice] “Oh, it used to be about skill-" [both laughing] That's not his voice! [both laughing] Why did I put on that voice?

C: [laughing] Yeah, sure, that's your old man voice. Go for it.

G: He's going, "It used to be about skill." And Jay, who is quite defeated about his career and his life, is like, "God, you guys are pathetic. You're like, bitter and old. We are all bitter and old. We are jokes in this industry. That used to be us, but now it's like, whatever. We're just old. We're dying." And then he just goes, “I'm gonna do the table of death tonight.” And Vernon and Charlie is like, “You almost died when you last did that, don't be crazy.” And Jay is like, “Yeah, who give a shit? I just want to just- If I die, at least I go out with a headline.”

C: Don't do that to your audience, man.

G: Yeah! Like, don't traumatize your audience.

C: Yeah, you're gonna traumatize a good- [laughing] probably five people given that no one goes to your shows. But still!

-

G: We go to a now smaller theater than what Jay - what's his name? Jeb Dexter - was at earlier. This one is just in a restaurant. And Jay is in a tuxedo. He is all dressed up for the show.

C: With a pink satin shirt under it. Fun look.

G: Yeah, magician wear. And he's saying like, "Oh, ladies and gentlemen-" you know, like your typical magician stuff. He lies down on the table of death, and Charlie starts to lock the cuffs. At some point. Charlie goes, "These are tight. Are you sure you can slip out of them?" They start the scene, and they close the curtains in front of the table. So it's all shadow. You're just seeing all shadow.

C: Yeah, which, I mean, I, personally, just would not believe any of it was real if that was the case.

G: Yeah.

C: Like, they could be playing a projection.

G: That's true.

They start burning the thing that will make the blades fall.

C: Yeah, there's like, ten bloody swords hanging from the ceiling or whatever. 

G: Why are the swords already bloody? Or are they just red?

C: I don't know. Yeah, they probably just tinted them with red to make them look more menacing.

G: Yeah. Jay is trying to get out, but I don't think it's happening. This scene is so long. But okay, meanwhile, Vance and this girl he was with earlier who’s his assistant are leaving the bar that they were at. We go back to Jay. He's struggling. It's not happening. And then the swords fall, and Jay, on the table - and the silhouette looks like he has been stabbed to death. Everyone in the room is gasping. After a moment of silence, the curtains open. Jay is there, and people are like, “Oh my god! That's so amazing!” Then we go back to Vance, the heckler from earlier. And now he is dead.

C: Yup. With ten stab wounds.

G: There are ten stab wounds on his torso, but like, no anything on his shirt. Like, no tears or anything. Which is fun!

C: It is fun. 

G: And that's when we get our splash screen. 

-

C: We cut to a bit later, and Jeb from earlier is doing card tricks on the street, and he’s saying that he's channeling demon and angel powers or whatever. Meanwhile, Sam and Dean are passing by, and Dean's like, “What a douchebag!” But Sam says, “Hey, that's Jeb Dexter.” And Dean goes, “I don't even want to know how you know that,” and Sam’s like, “He's famous.” Okay. So I mean, okay, we're agreed that Sam has a bit of a celebrity crush on this guy, right? [G laughs] But is it like a “he's an asshole but I sort of find his charm affecting” sort of crush, or is it like a “I want to make him take my cock so bad so that he could shut the fuck up” kind of crush?

G: I don't think he has a crush on this guy. 

C: Ow! Okay, fine.

G: Yeah.

C: He just knows about him. Doesn't give a shit?

G: Yeah. 

C: Alright. That's okay. 

G: Also, do you think it's mean if I say that this guy kind of reminds me of Pete Wentz? [laughs]

C: No, I don't think it's mean.

G: He has that vibe.

C: I don’t know what Pete Wentz looks like. 

G: He has a little bit of that vibe. Also, this is a spoiler, but later, Charlie reminds me-

C: Okay, I can see it.

G: - of Brian Jordan Alvarez. [laughs]

C: Huh!

G: Like, when he showed up, I was like, “This is Brian Jordan Alvarez.” And I just thought the entire time-

C: Wait, the young one?

G: Yeah, the young one. And the entire time he was young, I was like-

C: Wait, but you would have a different association with young Charlie. 

G: Who?

C: He's the actor that plays Lucas in House M.D.!

G: Who the hell is Lucas? The ex-wife's husband?

C: The private investigator-

G: Ohh!

C: The private investigator that House hires to spy on Wilson, and then he and Cuddy end up having a baby together.

G: That's crazy. Does that really happen in the show? [laughing]

C: Yes! Aren’t you the House M.D. fan?

G: Nope. [C laughs] I plead the fifth. I think that's a law in the United States. [laughs]

C: Yeah, I don't think it applies to overseas, but- [laughs] Anyway.

So basically, the rest of Jeb's act is like, he pretends that he gets possessed by a demon, and that helps him figure out what someone's card is. And Dean's like, “Man, this sucks. I can't believe people actually believe this, and, moreover, it's also literally offensive to the demon hunting community [both laughing] to pretend to be possessed by a demon.” Like, bro. Hunter is not an axis of oppression as much as The Winchesters want you to think that. 

G: It's so funny to me that he also thinks that "People believe in magic tricks." Like, no!

C: [laughing] No, they don’t!

G: People are impressed by the skill that you exhibit when you do a quote "magic" trick. That's what people are impressed by.

C: Exactly.

G: They don't think it's literally magic. [C laughs] So annoying.

C: God. So, so annoying. Wait, I mentioned that The Winchesters finale, the main villain is someone who wants to kill all humans because she's mad that hunters wasted all their time protecting humans, right?

G: [laughs] Yeah.

C: Yeah. Okay. Dean would be on this woman's side, like, given a few more bad days watching magic tricks.

So the thing that you said about skill is what Sam says. He's like, "Okay, I mean, that was like- that was crap. But like, not all magic is crap. [fake-teary] Like, it takes a lot of skill, Dean." [both laugh] But this when we get the reveal that Sam, when he was 13, used to be into doing magic, which I already knew, because all the Sam bloggers had like, a week where they kept like calling him Sammy Kablammy or Sammy Shazammy or something like that. Were you privy to this?

G: It's an adorable fact.

C: Yes. It's very, very cute. And I know that sometimes, people can just have interests that are unrelated to their various traumas. But [laughing] how do we think this interest is related to Sam's various traumas? [G laughs]

G: I don't know. I mean, he was 13. So it was definitely after he learned that- about like, monsters. You think it's like, a way to rationalize the supernatural? That could be an interpretation, right?

C: Like, it's just like another really skilled trick and there's like a way of learning your way around it, you mean?

G: No more of like, "Yeah, like all- like, those things are like actual magic or so, and we can't control them. But this is like, magic that I can control. And I can learn," you know? Blah blah blah.

C: Aw. Yeah. Yeah, I agree that that is definitely part of it. I also wonder if, like, at this point he was like, "Oh, there's like something wrong with me in terms of like, I can do things or like, I can feel the demon blood doing something. So I want to focus my energy on magic that is good so I don't have to think about the fact that I might be magic in an evil way according to my dad, or whatever." [G laughs]

G: That is so funny. Like, now, I'm thinking about Sam moving that cabinet one time in Season 2 or whatever, and being like, "Oh my god. It's magic!" [both laughing] Which is definitely not what happened. But god, it's funny.

C: I mean, 13-year-olds are stupid.

G: Yeah.

C: I mean, they're not. But some are.

Anyway, so cute. He had a deck of cards and a wand! That's soo cute.

But then Sam brings their focus back to the case at hand. So they go to interview Vance's assistant. She's like, pulling like a really long like silk scarf out of a bag, and then like, a rabbit and shit while they're talking. But basically, they ask if Vance had any enemies, and apparently, yes, basically all the magicians hated him because he would steal their intellectual property.

G: Also, to mention the stuff that she's pulling out, right? Like, the silk scarf, it's kind of funny, because Dean's looking at it the whole time like "When's this gonna end?" and just, it never does. But also, why is there just a rabbit there? And why did she put the rabbit in the bag?

C: Yeah, I'm worried about that rabbit's wellbeing.

G: I'm worried about that rabbit. And it's a very pretty rabbit, too.

C: Yeah, it has like long fur.

G: Long hair, yeah.

C: And then she says that something that she found on Vance's body is the tarot card for the Ten of Swords! And it definitely did not belong to Vance because he hated card tricks. Interesting. Interesting how he had that and then he was stabbed with 10 swords from the ceiling.

So now we're in Jay's hotel room, and we get a scene that is so old man yaoi.

G: [laughing] Yeah.

C: It's- like, I knew that I would have heard about it already if Supernatural canonicized this. But like still, the whole time I was like, "Are they-? Like- Is this-? Am I supposed to be getting hints here? Because I'm definitely getting hints here." [laughing] You now how later, when Jay was like, "He wasn't just my friend." And I was like, "Wait! Are they doing it?" [both laugh] And then he goes, "He was my brother." [both laughing]

G: That is such a Dean Winchester thing to say.

C: That is the Supernatural experience.

G: God, do you remember like, in like- before- I mean, you don't remember, but I watched 15.20 live, and before 15.20 aired, there was like a little like, "Look back on Supernatural" thing. You know how like, in House, they do that, too, right? But like, yeah, they do it for Supernatural. And like, it's so funny being like- when they were talking about Cas, Jensen goes, “Cas is really the third brother of the show.” [both laughing] And, like, first of all, there's a literal third brother-

C: [laughing] - in the show already.

G: [laughing] Second of all, he confessed his love to your character two episodes ago!

C: Yeah. He said that he wanted to fuck you raw.

G: It's so funny!

C: What is the- I'm searching for the specific wording. You know that post from like, October of 2020 that's like, "Misha Collins said that Cas's last words will be really important in this political climate, [G laughs] but the only thing that would be important is if he says, 'Dean Winchester, I want to fuck you so bad and so raw,'" but like, that's not exactly what the post is phrased as. I don't know the specifics. One day I'll find out and I'll reference it more often.

G: [laughing] I love that Misha Collins actually said that. [both laugh] "What Cas will say is so important our political climate."

C: It's the same fucking energy as his like, Instagram post of him being like, "Currently the Supreme Court is taking away all right for all Americans. But you know what? Cas is gay." [both laughing]

G: I mean, he literally is.

C: Like, gay is like, vague enough that I can continue bi Cas truthing without being homophobic, right? Like, I don't- Is there a point where, like- I mean, Misha Collins isn't a writer, also. I think if there was a point where the writers were like, "He is exclusively attracted to men," I'd be like, "Okay, fine." But currently, he's still bi to me.

G: Yeah. I don't think that's like- I don't think when he was like, "I've loved you since I pulled you out of Hell," I don't think he was like, "And only men," [both laugh] you know? [both laughing] He was never like- he never said those words, so. "I love you, and only you, specifically, like, because you're a guy."

C: "You're a man."

G: "And if you were a girl, it's not gonna happen." [C laughs] Like, he never was like that.

C: Yeah, okay, cool. Anyway, we're so off topic.

G: We are.

C: Old man yaoi.

G: Old man yaoi.

C: So Jay is in his hotel room. He's like doing card tricks. He's doing really good. And then someone knocks on the door, and it is Charlie. And Charlie comes in, and he's like, "Are you gonna tell me how you did it?" You know, all this is so funny now that I know the ending. [both laugh] But whatever.

G: Yeah.

C: Jay clearly - he has a pep in his step. He's confident. He's calling himself "one of the great ones," magician-wise  And, you know, Charlie is like, "I mean, yesterday, you were sad, old and dying, and now, like, everything's changed. Come on, talk to me." And he says, like- Charlie also says, "I didn't think that you could do it." And then he goes, "You're my friend. My best friend. I just didn't wanna see you get hurt." What is- okay, I, like, friendship is a real thing, but also, they- anyway. [both laugh]

Yeah, so Jay shows him another trick where he's able to pull the ace of spades, clubs, and diamonds out of the middle of the deck flawlessly.

G: Yeah, I actually really like this. Like, the little magic tricks that they do.

C: Yeah.

G: I feel like Julie Siege actually likes magic and was like, "Let me incorporate it into this episode." And I feel like throughout the episode, like, first of all, that little detail that, like, he was practicing pulling out the ace all his life, and now he can do it three easy. It's like, little details like that, I feel- I mean, I don't know anything about magic. So maybe I'm like, terribly off-base. But to me, as someone who doesn't know anything about this, it betrays a little bit of a- like, this is something that the writer actually liked and maybe knew a little bit about, and like, now, it's like-

C: Yeah.

G: So, I don't know. Because you can easily make an episode about magicians and about magic that feels like, they don't feel like people, you know, like, they are defined by their, I don't know, their occupations or whatever. But, like, these characters, they are magicians, but they also do genuinely feel like people with like, actual motivations and stuff. Which I really like.

C: Yeah. Yeah. And when they're talking about the industry, I'm like, "OMG, so true! The industry."

G: Yeah, like, that's what I'm talking about. Like it feels like, real in a way, which is, I think, a big part of why I really enjoyed watching this episode. Because the people felt real. You know how like, Sarah from "Providence" was an art curator, but like, it was like, nothing?

C: Yeah.

G: Like, it was nothing. Like, seeing- They could have easily done something like that with these magicians, right? Like, "Yeah, they're magicians, but it's whatever." But like, having them be so embedded in the industry, and their motivations are run around this theme, it's like, it's nice. It's well-written. It's a well-written episode.

C: Yeah, yeah. These are like some of the like, probably best characters who the case happens to that we've seen on Supernatural.

G: Yeah. They're fleshed out as much as they can with one-off characters.

C: Like, "Family Remains," that family was so annoying. Like, they tried to give them a backstory, and it like, just didn't really work. But this works.

G: Yeah, this works. All they needed was old man yaoi, yeah. [C laughs]

C: Right. Because last episode, you said the thing that bothered you about "Family Remains" is that it started as like, there was an uncle in the family, so it was sort of different -

G: Yeah, and then nobody gave a shit about it, yeah.

C: - from the usual nuclear family dynamic, and then, like they killed him and the dog, and then, like no one cared. And this- the relationship structure of this episode is so interesting-

G: Yeah! It's unconventional. Yeah.

C: Yeah. Even if they aren't fucking each other raw, which I think they are, like, it's nice that-

G: There's this family, yeah.

C: - I'm skipping ahead so much. But at the at the end, when Jay's like, “I'm gonna die alone.”

G: You actually feel it!

C: I just bought into the idea that like, yeah, this is his found family structure. He isn't gonna date or like, adopt or do anything. This was like, it for him.

G: They are like, actual people! And they feel like actual people! It's nice.

C: Right. It's nice.

So Jay says that he's gonna do The Executioner tonight. And then Charlie's like, “No, please don't.You're gonna die. Not even Houdini would do The Executioner.” And then, you know, Charlie keeps begging him not to. And then Jay positions Charlie a bit farther away from him and says something about how, “We can't end up like a bunch of old people doing birthdays and bar mitzvahs." Charlie says, “Beats dying!” [both laugh] Which, I guess, is funny now.

G: I mean, okay, I'm gonna bring this up now. I was gonna bring it up towards the end. But I can't stop myself. He was ready to grow old with these two. Which is like- Oh my god! He knew how to be immortal. He knew how to stay young forever. And like, we are to assume- like, didn't like Jay say that that they met when he was like in his 20s? When he was 20?

C: Yeah.

G: So like, at that point, I think Charlie already was immortal in some way.

C: Yeah, yeah, because he worked with PT Barnum, who was active in [both] the 1800s.

G: Yeah, so like, he already- This is literally Destiel. [both laughing] No, it's not. But this is a better love story than Destiel. [C laughs]

But he met this guy. He already was like, “Yeah, like, I could stay this young forever.” And then, like, he just decided like, “No, I'm going to grow old with them.” Which is-

C: Yeah, like, “I'm gonna wait until I'm in my sixties before I do anything about it. And I want to bring them with me.”

G: Yeah. I think actually- I feel a little bit like he only did this to make sure that Jay stays alive. Because he could have made them successful way earlier. But he only really did it because Jay was very obviously suicidal, right?

C: Yeah. Yeah.

G: And like, did he want to grow old and die with these two? Man!

C: I feel like he wanted them to be immortal together forever. But I feel like that is the same amount of like, [both] commitment.

G: Yeah. Damn. I think this guy’s gay or something. [C laughs]

C: Yeah.

So at “beats dying,” Jay says, “Does it?” And then Charlie says, “I would do anything for you. You know that.” [both laugh] [shouted:] What is happening?!

G:  I love it.

C: “But I will not watch you die.” Is this not- has Destiel not said something like that, or am I just making it up?

G: No, Cas- I think Cas said that in Season 14 when Dean was gonna toss himself in the ocean.

C: Okay. Well.

G: I don’t know. I'm not sure.

C: Like, my face is red. Like, I’m sweating. Like- [both laughing] I'm going insane!

G: [laughing] What is happening?

C: I just- I don’t know. Love story of all time, perhaps?

G: Perhaps, yeah.

C: Anyway, so. [laughs] Anyway. Charlie makes light of it by saying, “I'll miss that show if you die.” And Jay says, “No, you'll be there. You're always there for me.” [laughing] Normal things to say. And then he says-

G: On one hand, when this was happening, I was like, “Yeah, they're friends.” [both laugh]

C: Which like, yeah.

G: And they are. But they're also lovers. So, good for them.

C: Right. I mean, there are friends that you would think this about and say this to. But like, it’s just a lot of one-after-the-others, and it's not even past midnight, and you aren't even crying or drunk, you know? [laughs]

G: Yeah.

C: So Charlie is told to check his pocket, and he does, and it's the ace of hearts! [G laughs]

G: That guy's gay or something! I've been saying.

C: What?

G: He literally gave him the ace of hearts.

C: No, exactly, exactly, exactly! [G laughs] Like, the spades is the cool one, you know? If you want to just be like, “Oh, here's a cool thing that happened,” you do the spades. The ace of hearts is like, hello?

G: And in his breast pocket! Like, by his heart. [C laughs] It's crazy. 

C: No, sorry, we can't- I don't want to start sounding like a fucking TJLCer. [G laughs] I fear that if I go further down this path I'm just gonna sound like a TJLCer. You were not present during the TJLC days -

G: No, I was not. I did not give a shit about Sherlock, yeah.

C: People were making graphics where they were doing meta, and they were like, “phone = heart,” like, breast pocket, because in the first episode Sherlock asks John to get the heart- sorry, to get his phone for him out of his pocket. But yeah. This one, it’s literally the ace of hearts. So we are not insane people. [G laughs]

Anyway, Charlie is like, “Hey, that's pretty good.” And Jay goes. “I can do it, Charlie. I want to do it.” And you know, there's shots of them laughing and smiling together. And something about the camera angles, it's very romantic. It's very romantic.

-

G: Well, now, we enter a theater where Jeb Dexter is going to do an interview. And he's going to be interviewing Jay as kind of a “honoring my elders” kind of way. [both laugh] And Charlie and Vernon are just watching this, which is so funny to me. These three are inseparable.

C: Well, they're part of the same act though, right?

G: Are they?

C: They're his assistants or something. Because Charlie does the rope burning, at least?

G: Well, I think that was like- Jay says earlier, “We can't even afford assistants anymore,” so I think the implication was they're assisting each other in each other’s act. 

C: Okay, yeah. They're giving each other a hand, winky face. Got it. 

G: Yeah. Dean comes in. Sam and Dean are in fact in this episode. [C laughs] Dean asks Vernon, “Hey are you Vernon Haskell? I'm here to investigate the death of Patrick Vance,” and then he holds up an FBI ID. And as this is happening, Jeb and Jay are starting the interview, and it's Jeb being like, “Yeah, I'm Jeb Dexter. And we're at the International Magicians Convention, where I am going to tip my hat to the people who came before me.” And then he says, “Smoking hot effect last night, Jim,” and Jay goes, “It's Jay. My name is Jay.” And it starts this background noise of Jeb Dexter being like, “We'll just cut it in post. We'll loop it later. I don't know why you're being an asshole,” you know. That's the background. Meanwhile, Dean is talking to Vernon still. Deans asking about the tarot card that they pulled off the Vance body, and he's asking if Vernon is familiar with it because he used to use tarot cards in his act. But Vernon says, “That was a long time ago, it's not happening anymore. But there is someone that sells these kind of stuff over on Bleeker Street.” And Charlie immediately catches on, like, “Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He sells specialty stuff.” And they say, “Oh, Vance pissed him off a year ago, cost him so much money in royalties and stuff.” And they go like, “Yeah, the address is 26 Bleeker,” and then Vernon is doing the talking, and Charlie just goes like, “Yeah, ask for Chief.” [C laughs] And Dean’s like, “Okay,” and then leaves, and Charlie and Vernon just look at each other.

So we go to Bleeker Street, where we see that Dean is knocking at the door. So like somebody greets Dean, and he's like, “Oh, I'm looking for the Chief,” and the guy’s like, “Okay, come in.” And they come in and they enter this basement-looking place, where there's a loud, thumping music that you can hear from the distance. And you look around the place, and it's kind of dark, but there's graffiti everywhere. Dean is left alone there, and the guy’s like, “Yeah, don't touch anything, stay there.” And Dean is just waiting, waiting, waiting when a door opens from the other side of the room.

C: The floor?

G: Is it on the floor?

C: It sorta looked like it was on the floor.

G: It's sorta surface level, and then, like it goes down, so it looks like it's coming up. The light looks like it's coming up.

C: Got it.

G: So a guy comes in, and it's a bulky guy, and he is wearing leather. He's carrying a flogger. And he is like, you know, flogging. Like, he's like playing with the flogger with his hands. And then he- [C laughs]

C: He's slapping it against his hand a few times, yeah.

G: Yeah, yeah. What did I say?

C: [laughing] You said he's playing with the flogger with his hands, which is not incorrect, but sounds sort of like he's jerking the flogger off. [G laughs]

G: Anyway, when he finally stands still and we get a good look at him, he goes, "Ah. You're really gonna get it tonight, big boy." [C laughs] And Dea is like, "There's been a misunderstanding. I think I've been had."

C: "I've been had."

G: And the Chief goes, [overlapping] “Oh, you haven't been had until you've been had by the Chief.” Chief goes, "Oh! Before we get started, what's your safeword?" And Dean does a little face where he looks like he's like, holding back a vomit, which I think is rude. But you know. I mean, I get it. He's in a situation he doesn't want to be in.

C: Yeah. Yeah. So how did Vernon and Charlie know about this?

G: They must go to this place, I guess.

C: Yeah. That is also a conclusion.

G: Which, you know. Like- [laughs] I mean, it's just, I don't know, like, I do genuinely think they were trying to make like these three like, gay.

C: Okay.

G: And this scene is like, my evidence.

C: Huh. Yeah, okay.

G: Because it's like, they know about the, I would assume, underground gay subculture in this area.

C: Yeah. I mean, it literally is underground. It's a basement. And then a basement of a basement.

G: It's literally underground. And also, they don't frequent- they don't live here. You know what I mean?

C: True.

G: They make a point of say, like, these guys are on the road all the time. So I just don't buy the idea that like, "Oh, they know their way around the place." Like, I think this is just- I think they know already their way around this place because it's gay. By virtue of being gay.

C: Yeah, I do think the reasons I'm reluctant to say that it is on purpose is because in the opening scene with Jeb, they keep making fun of him for wearing eyeliner and shaking his ass.

G: Being kind of homophobic, yeah.

C: Yeah. And it just does feel vaguely homophobic. So-

G: But I think, personally, I think that's more of an intergenerational thing than a homophobia thing. You know what I mean?

C: Right, yeah. I get what you mean.

G: Yeah. 'Cause the vibe was more like-

C: I just think if they wanted to make it canon, they would have. Actually, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

G: This was, in fact, in 2009.

C: Yeah, I mean, I guess- Yeah, okay. I guess I just assume that all Supernatural writers are homophobic, so if they meant to do it on purpose, they would have been meaner about it. You know what I mean?

G: I don't know. But yeah.

C: But also, I don't know Julie Siege. Okay, but we're talking about the people who did Destiel not on purpose, you know?

G: Yeah.

C: Like, they didn't mean to do any of that until people started yelling at them so so much.

G: Do you think they- do you think Julie Siege was like, "Yeah, no, nothing's happening here at all."

C: Maybe. Yeah.

G: But you know what? There was something happening here at all, to me. And that's what's important. [C laughs]

C: Yeah. That is what's important.

I mean, with the later reveal that, like Charlie is evil, and trying to tempt them into immortality, maybe something is supposed to be happening here, but it's in the same way that villains are queercoded to like, add a new dimension to their evilness, or whatever. I don't know. I think she intended them to be besties that were not romantic. But something sure is happening.

-

C: We are at the motel room where Sam is staying alone. He's doing some research. Someone knocks at the door. He looks through the little peephole, and then sighs and opens the door all annoyed. And Ruby's here. She looks fantastic as usual. And Ruby is like, “Hey, the entire world is about to end, and you're just here at this magic convention like an idiot.” And she also says, “34 seals have been broken. Like, 34. Over half. And every day, we get closer to the Apocalypse, and someone has to do something. And you are that person. It has to be you.” Sam does not enjoy this situation. He's like, “What do you want me to do? Why are you pressuring me?” all that. And Ruby is like, “Hey. Like, if the seals are being broken, you should go after the one doing the breaking and cut the head off the snake." She says like, "You're the only one who can stop her, Sam, so step up and kill the little bitch." And Sam says something quite interesting. He says, “I'm game. Believe me. It's not the psychic thing I have a problem with.” Which- so like, at this point, he's accepted the Azazel giving him demon blood and psychic powers thing? He's okay with that now?

G: Yeah. And he's just upset about the demon blood.

C: Drinking, right. Because isn't this sort of different from what he told Dean in “Metamorphosis” where he’s like, “There's like this evil inside of me, and like, this is the only way I can make something good out of it.” He doesn't think that there's this evil inside of him anymore. He's okay with the psychic powers.

G: I don't think he thinks there's no evil inside of him anymore. I think that it's not the psychic thing that he has the most problem with, which is a different thing.

C: Alright, yeah, okay. So Ruby is like, "Okay, I know you have a problem with, but it is the only way." Sam refuses again. And then Ruby says, “You know, this would all be so much easier if you just admit to yourself that you like it.”

And I think what this is where like I bring up that in 4.09, we didn't really address the fact that Sam pushed Ruby away after she kissed him, and then she followed him and tried to convince him still, and that's like, not okay. And I feel like this sentence continues to play into the idea of like, this being akin to a sexual assault. Like, do you know what I mean?

G: Yeah.

C: Like the whole like, "You know you like it," is like, a staple sentence of rape culture.

G: Yeah. The whole, like, blurred lines issue from way back centers around this very phrasing.

C: Right. Yeah. And I think that that is deliberate here.

G: What I find most interesting, okay. So after this line, right, Ruby basically realizes that like this specific tactic is not working with Sam right now. So she changes tactic, and she goes, “Sam. Lucifer is gonna rise, and the Apocalypses are gonna start and people are gonna die. So just let me know when you don't want people to die anymore.” And it's so fascinating to me because I think this scene reminds me a lot of what you said that one time where you said that, like, in the past, Ruby was like, "You have to be tougher, Sam. You have to be just like Dean." And then when she realized that that's not working, she was like, “Okay, then I can be the Dean and you can continue being the Sam." Fundamentally, like, Ruby's intentionality of her interactions with Sam is to get him to do her bidding.

C: Yeah.

G: And but this scene fascinates me a lot because it shows you how she really does just throw everything at the wall to see what sticks.

C: No, yeah, exactly.

G: It's like, "Oh, like, I want to get Sam to do this thing, and I'll just do anything to get him to do it, and hope that one of them works." And it's like, in this part, she's like, "Well, I'm gonna pull the whole like, 'Oh, I know you want it, blah blah blah. I know that you actually like it, and you just won't admit it.'" And when it doesn't work she's like, "Well, people are gonna die. [C laughs] Does that work now?" Yeah.

C: Yeah, yeah. It's very interesting. Because, yeah, I feel like we're supposed to consider- I feel like Supernatural considers her like a master of manipulation. But like, I don't think she's actually that good at it. I think that - because, like, she tries for all of Season 3, and it doesn't work.

G: Yeah.

C: And that's probably because, like, she spends too much time in the prologue and doesn't really get to like, "And now you have to use demon powers to do blah blah blah blah blah" part until it's too late. And then, like, this time, she's like, "Okay. Go #2." And I feel like it only works because she found him at his most emotionally vulnerable time in his life.

G: Yeah.

C: Like, I think she heard from the crossroads demon, like, “Sam was just over here, like drunk and suicidal,” and then she was like, “Oh, well, now is my time to shine.”

She uses like his grief about Dean to like, get with him sexually too to be able to manipulate him.

G: When I was editing "Heaven and Hell," and I was listening to myself say that, "Oh, Anna bringing up all of Dean's trauma, and then being like, 'Yeah, let's fuck now.'"

C: Right.

G: Why is it that when Anna did it, I was like, "Oh, yeah, like, this is bad." But like, when Ruby did it, I was like, "Eh, okay." Because, like, the reason why is because when Ruby does it, it's framed as like manipulation, or at least in retrospect, it's framed as manipulation, because we know what she is trying to do. But like, with Anna, it's played incredibly straight-faced. It's like, this is just a normal thing people do.

C: Right.

G: And it's like, I think, that contrast of like framing really does highlight what Ruby is trying to do, which is that this is to take advantage of Sam, and especially that one, it was to take advantage of his grief.

C: Mm-hm. And she expected Dean to never come back right? So like, I feel like it's interesting how she tried to adapt-

G: Is trying to now, yeah.

C:'Cause when he first came back, she was like, “Oh, I can leave for a bit until like things like- because I don't want to drive a rift between the two of you,” and Sam’s like, “No, I'm gonna tell him,” and Ruby's like, “Oh, no, don't do that.” So like, yeah, that's like step number one. But step number two is like, even if Sam tells Dean, that actually works out pretty well for Ruby, because she knows that Dean is going to react negatively, which means that the more Dean knows about Sam and Ruby's relationship, the more that Sam will no longer have Dean in his corner, and only have Ruby. You know what I mean?

G: Yeah.

C: So she's not very good at manipulation, but because Dean is such a fucking asshole, [both laugh] everything she does is gonna work.

G: I was gonna say that when my friends are having difficulty in relationship, I make sure to like, when I'm talking to them about it to not center it around like, "You should be ashamed of yourself!" or whatever.

C: Oh, yeah.

G: Because that will push them further into the bad relationship, because now it's based on shame, you know? Which is like, it is something that is very visible in this in this dynamic, with like Ruby and Sam and Dean.

C: Right.

G: That Dean is pushing the whole like, "Oh, this is disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself." And in a way, it is both pushing Sam further into it.

C: Right, yeah. Dean's reaction is never like, "Oh, no, like it seems like she is manipulating her, and I'm like worried about you."

G: "She's manipulating you!"

C: It's just like, "Oh, you fell for it, and now you're besties?"

G: Yeah. "I'm angry at you because you're so stupid and you're so gullible." Yeah.

C: Right and like, he doesn't react in a - I mean, maybe this is what his concern looks like, but like, it's fucked. It's very fucked. And he doesn't offer Sam any compassion about it. It's just like, "Stop being stupid and ruing my life by making me have to see her or whatever the fuck."

G: Yeah

And now they are in an interesting place, because Dean is not as mad at her.

C: That's true. And I don't when he becomes re-mad at her. Probably when he finds out about the blood drinking or something.

I mean, yeah, this also works for Ruby, because Sam's in a spot where he's like, "Oh, like, finally, Dean's like not trying to kill like my girlfriend who's not my girlfriend anymore, so I can't do anything to rock the boat, so I really have to keep the demon blood thing under wraps."

G: Yeah.

C: It always works out really well, despite her not being that good at manipulation. So, wow.

-

C: So as you said, Ruby pulls the, "Okay, you know what? People are gonna die, and it's gonna be your fault. You're gonna cause all them to die. Goodbye." And leaves. And we cut to the theater, where, you know, Sam and Dean meet back up. Neither of them have found anything interesting. Dean does not tell Sam what the situation he encountered was. And, you know, Sam also doesn't tell Dean about the situation he encountered.

Meanwhile, Vernon and Charlie are discussing how Jay is going to do The Executioner. And Vernon's like, "No, you have to stop him. Like, why didn't you try? He's gonna die." And Charlie's like, "No, I tried really hard, but there was something in his eyes." So Sam and Dean show up, talk to them, and Dean’s like, "So. You sent me to The Chief, huh?" And, you know, Charlie and Vernon are both like, "Haha, yeah, we got you." And Dean's like, "I could have you arrested." And they're like, "Oh, no, you can't, because all magicians are grifters and shit. And we could tell that you were not a real FBI agent." [G laughs]

G: You know, instead of being like "hunters are cops," they should have just made hunters like magicians for real. [C laughs]

C: Yeah. Yeah. So Sam and Dean are like, “Ahaha! You've got us! We're actually, um, aspiring magicians?" [G laughs]

G: It was so stupid.

C: "And we came to the convention to learn things" Right. That's so stupid. And that required you to pretend to be FBI agents to ask about a murder? How is that related to being an aspiring magician?

G: I love how they do it pretty much in the same cadence that they talked to the girl who had oh, the big giant teddy bear.

C: Oh, Audrey? Whatever her name was?

G: Yeah. When they were like, “We're teddy bear doctors!” And they were like, "We're aspiring magicians!" [both laugh] It's so stupid.

C: Yeah, yeah. God bless. So they're like, “Oh, we have a new show that we want to do. It's like a brother act with rings and doves and rings.” And you know what? I was waiting for them to make the joke "It's going to be called Supernatural," [G laughs] and they didn't. So good for them.

G: It literally is gonna be called Supernatural.

C: Yeah. So Jay starts doing his act, and it's similar to earlier, where it's cutting between the act and another magician. This time the other magician is Jeb.

G: It's so funny, because, like, with Jay, it's like music, it's like swelling. And like, you know, whatever whatever. Every time it comes to Jeb Dexter, it's just metal music. [laughs]

C: Yeah. The song is called “Douchebag Museum” by Christopher Leonard, so they probably picked it because of the title.

G: Yeah. And it is quite funny because it makes this scene unintentionally funny, I think. And like, every time we cut back to Jeb, he is staring at the mirror doing a mirror face.

C: He's posing.

G: Yeah. You know the face you do in front of a mirror when you're like, "Do I look good?" And you're like, "Oh." That's the face that he's doing the entire time until he is hanged to death.

C: Yeah. Sorry, Jeb.

The trick is that Jay is put in a straitjacket, and then his head is put in a noose, and then in a minute, he has to be able to get out, or he is gonna be hanged to death. And, you know, it's the screen again, so you can only see the silhouettes. While Jeb is posing, there's like a rope that sort of just like, starts forming itself into a noose, and then creeping towards him while he is posing and shit. And then, like, in the last second, Jay hasn't made it out. The noose loops around Jeb's neck and then attaches to the ceiling fan. And then it kills him. And the curtain is pulled aside, and Jay is alive. And Dean's cheering and clapping like, “Oh my god! That was soo cool!” And Sam is just frowning, and he goes, “That was not humanly possible.” Man. Dean's all like, “I can't believe people believe this shit.” And then he's out here believing this shit.

G: He's so real.

C: Yeah. I think it's cute that Sam was the one who figured it out because I think maybe some of his, his 13-year-old magic background helped him know what was possible and what wasn't.

G: Yeah.

-

G: So in a hotel room, Sam and Dean are talking about how Jay was big in the 70s, and he, like, played Radio City Music Hall. And then Dean's like, "What happened to him?" And Sam's like, "Well, what happens to everyone in show biz. He got old."

G: Dean is saying, "Maybe he's using real magic?" They start inferring, maybe the tarot is involved, blah blah blah. And then Dean says, “Man, I hope I die before I get old. Whole thing seems brutal.”

C: Well, good news. 

G: Good news, Dean. Sam just asks if he really thinks that, if they really will die before they get old. Dean is like, “Well, we have both done that already.” Sam just pushes through, says “Do you think we're gonna be chasing demons until we're 60?” Dean says, “I think by then, we'll be dead for good. You want to end up like Travis? Or Gordon?” Which is such an odd thing to say, I feel.

C: [laughing] Gordon was not fucking 60! Gordon was like, 30! 

G: Yeah, Travis makes sense, because Travis is an old guy.

C: He's probably in his 50s.

G: But like, Gordon was like, their age! Gordon was their age. Sam goes like, “There's Bobby,” and Dean says, “Yeah, Bobby, poster child for growing old gracefully.” And I was like, “Yes!”

C: Don’t be so mean to your elders. What did Bobby do wrong?

G: He literally is. He literally is the poster child for growing old as a hunter gracefully.

C: Like, he’s still doing the work, and he has a nice enough house, and he has friends and a lot of connections, and he helps people out.

G: And also, I understand that they only met Rufus once at this point, it was just Season 2. 

C: Right, but I’m surprised that he wasn't mentioned.

G: When we spoke- I love how we're saying “when we spoke to Rufus.” [C laughs] Like, I didn't speak to him. Dean spoke to him.

C: Well, I did.

G: But when Dean spoke to Rufus, that was their conversation, right? About Rufus growing old and retiring, basically, and how Dean is not gonna do that because he's gonna die young or whatever, because his deal is coming up. So you don't have to hunt for the rest of your life. Like Rufus, you literally have a guy who retired. Like, you can actually do that. I don't know. It's just, it's a bit odd

C: It is. It's a bit odd.

G: Anyway, Dean insists that it either ends bloody or sad, and that's just it. Sam goes, “Well, what if we could win? What if we could, you know, just put an end to it all?” And Dean is like, “Uhh, is there something I should know about?” And Dean evades the question, and says that like, “I wish you could just cut the head off the source, you know, cut the head off the snake." And Dean is like, “Yeah, I mean, probably not gonna happen though. Should we go look for Jay?” And then they do.

C: Yeah. I like that Ruby tried the whole “everyone's gonna die” tactic because her thought is like, “Oh, Sam's an altruistic person, this’ll work, or whatever.” But Sam agrees to come back at the end because he just wants a better life for himself, and to not die young, I feel like. And I don't know. That's nice. Sorry, Sam, that you always striving for a better life, which is something that you wanted since you were a child, is what's gonna doom you once more. F. Also, another thing about this scene is that the dialogue is about as corny as most Supernatural dialogue, but, while I was watching it, I was like, “Huh! I don't feel like this is that corny.” And then I realized that the reason is because there's no piano music. [G laughs]

G: God! I completely forgot to mention, I think, in the last three episodes or something, that literally any time anything happens, the music is so in your face, and they just push through with it. And yeah, this scene didn't have sad music. And that is a big reason why it's fine.

C: Right. Yeah, yeah. If in any other episode with any other music track, I would be saying, "It's so corny, it's so corny," after every sentence you said.

-

C: When they go look for Jeb, they see that on his body is the tarot card for the Hanged Man. And then they also notice that, "Hey, the two people who died so far, people who were mean to Jay, so he's probably doing some kind of death transference thing via the cards."

G: I mean, this is also so interesting. Like, not mean to Charlie.

C: Yeah.

G: Mean to Jay specifically. And also specifically, like, there's no even like, "Oh, he just happened to be mean to Jay, but like, you know, like, there's other inciting factors." Like, when he was asked why he chose Vance, he was like, “That guy was disrespecting you!”

C: Yeah.

G: Crazy.

C: Something about the Charlie and Jay relationship is so Samruby, but I guess I'll get into it when the reveal happens.

Sam isn't able to follow Jay properly because he was able to slip him. And then they decide to just go into his hotel room with their guns fucking out, and, you know, shouting like, “Hey! Go up against the wall. We know what you did. We know you put a spell on those tarot cards doing real magic." And Jay is like, “What? There's no such thing as real magic, it's all just illusions and shit.” And Dean's like, “Oh, so Jeb Dexter found dead and hanged was an illusion?” Jay’s like, “Oh, no, what? Something happened to Jeb?” And he just clearly does not know what's going on. He clearly did not do anything. Sam and Dean are whispering to each other, “What do we do?” And it cuts to this old man tied in a chair. For what? They've already established that he didn't do it.

G: And also, it's just to set up wacky hijinks. [C laughs] Like, "Oh, he escapes, and Sam and Dean get caught by the police!"

C: Yeah.

G: Like, bruh. He literally is an escapeologist. Fuck off! [C laughs]

C: Yeah. Yeah. So as you said, the wacky hijinks are that Sam and Dean have their backs turned to Jay and are whispering to each other about how, if it's not him, it's like one of his friends, someone in his corner.  And then, when they turn back around, Jay has escaped. So Sam and Dean run out of the room to find him, and then it turns out he was hiding in the closet. Slay. [G laughs]

C: And then, while Sam and Dean are running around, the police show up because Jay called them from the closet, and then he's like, “Go, officers! Arrest them!" Etc.

And then we have a talk between Jay and Charlie, and Jay is like, "They were saying that there was real magic involved in my act, and it actually killed Vance and Jeb back then." And Charlie is like, “Oh, that's ridiculous! No.” And Jay's like, "Well, I mean, my sudden skill is pretty weird, and those deaths were pretty coincidental." And Charlie's like, "Oh, I mean, there was no great loss there." Like, he literally hates them so much for being mean to Jay, like, one time.

Charlie's like, “Stop believing what they said. You're being ridiculous.” And Jay says, “Maybe I shouldn't do the show tonight, then.” And Charlie goes, “Are you kidding me? You have a sold-out house out there, you have to.” Also we find out- when we later see the scene where he's like, doing the show, a sold-out house is like 40 people. [both laugh] Like, god. No wonder he's so depressed. [G laughs]

G: Yeah. More people listen to this podcast-

C: To this fucking podcast than a sold-out show for Jay! [both laugh] Oh, boy.

And Jay finally confesses that the Table of Death thing was like, intended as like, he was trying to kill himself. It was a suicide attempt that he just managed to get out of alive, but he has no clue how.

And Charlie does not really give this its proper weight. He just goes like, "But you did make it out alive!" And then he says, like, "You know, back in your day you were the best I ever saw. And now you got it back. It doesn't matter how. Just seeing you like this again, it makes me feel young." And, you know, one more, like "You gotta do the show. Don't throw away this gift."

G: Now that I think about it like, it's so funny that he decided that the next victim is gonna be him. [both laughing]

C: Yeah. Yeah, that was really funny of him.

G: It's like, "Yeah, let's traumatize this guy to hell and back, baby!"

C: I mean, I think the reasoning is "He'll be so happy to see me again that it'll make him more likely to say yes to the immortality thing."

G: Yeah yeah yeah.

C: Which is very like, you know, "If his brother won't be dragged to Hell by hellhounds, I can at least engineer something like it." [G laughs]

G: Yeah.

C: So, you know, the Table of Death is happening again. And, you know, same thing as before. Spikes go down. It looks like he gets hit. But then he's okay. And then there's screams from backstage, and Charlie is dead, in quotes-

G: Whoo!

C: With those ten stab wounds in him. Woot woot.

-

G: Yeah. We are back at the hotel lobby where Sam and Dean were caught earlier. And Sam and Dean are like, “Yeah, thank you for bailing us out or dropping the charges, or whatever." Can- even if you drop the charges, does that mean they're just free to go?

C: I guess, because, like, it's only like his word against theirs, right? It's not like anyone else has evidence that they did anything.

G: Ah, I guess so.

C: So he could've just been like, "Whoopsie. They were just like doing a fun little prank on me because I'm like famous, and they wanted to meet me. I don't care enough to send them to jail about that. Bring them back," or whatever.

G: Sam and Dean go to a bar where they start talking, and they really hammer home the backstory. Jay was like this kid who like, I thikn the implication was he gambled for money and then was cheating at cards, which does remind me of one of Caravaggio's paintings. It's basically, like- I forgot the title of the painting. I think it's like The Magicians or something.

C: Oh.

G: But it's basically like, basically these two- I think it's like, card trick or something. And it's these two guys pulling card tricks against this rich aristocrat that they're playing with. And like, the reason why that was powerful or whatever is that, "Yeah, these two guys who are like pulling the wool over this rich person's eye is like, taking money from him, stealing money from him, or whatever whatever. But even if that guy goes home with an empty pocket that day, he's gonna go home to a beautiful house, to servants, to money that these two cannot even begin to fathom." So it's kind of like, a- I don't know. Like, "Let poor people steal shit!" [both laugh] kind of painting, I guess.

C: Nice.

G: Which I agree with.

Anyway, he was, in fact, that guy from the Caravaggio painting, and Charlie taught him tricks of the trade, I guess, quite literally. Tricks of the magic tricks trade. And then that's kind of how they started. Like, Charlie was mentoring him. And then they just started being buddies who were successful magicians, and then old and faded. And he says, “He was more than my friend. [C laughs] He was my brother.” Love that.

C: God! I- the one second between those two sentences, when I was like, “Holy shit,” was one of the most joyous of my life, and then it was gone. It was gone from me forever.

G: Jay's saying, "I should have listened to you guys." Sam and Dean go, "But you didn't do it. It's okay." And he is deadset on revenge.

Sam starts inquiring whether Vernon might be the guy. Jay's like, “No! Like, we're family, you know?” And Sam was like, "Yeah, Charlie and Vernon were your family, Jay." And Dean comes in and goes, “But now Charlie's gone.” Which is like, I don't know. It's so fucking corny to me. But.

C: Yeah.

G: Jay clarifies that Vernon would never do that. And then Dean says, "See. The thing about real magic is it's a whole lot like crack. People do surprising things once they get a taste of it." And the camera is so obviously pointing at Sam. And it's like, "Ohh. [C mumbling along] Start of the whole demon blood drinking is a drug" thing.

Anyway, Jay's like, "Okay. But this needs to be true, because Vernon's all I got left." Sad!

So Sam and Dean go to Vernon's room and just look for shit. Like, we start there, and, like, Jay, calls Vernon to be like, "Come to the theater with me." And Sam and Dean enter. And Sam’s like, “Wow, this play is like, so full of magic stuff.” And, you know, they start exploring the room.

We're back at the theater. And Vernon comes in. and he's saying, "Jay! The headliner gig is yours in this convention."

C: Very weird reaction after your mutual best friend died.

G: Yeah. Quite weird, quite odd. Vernon's like- Jay turns around, and he's looking so forlorn, and goes, "A day ago, if you told me I can be standing at this stage. But no, I can't do it, Vernon." And Vernon's like, "What are you talking about?" And it was like, it is very obvious what he is talking about. It is so obvious. There is nothing more obvious than what he is talking about. But Jay's like, "Yeah-"

C: For someone who didn't kill Charlie, he is being very suspicious.

G: Yeah. And Jay just says, "Charlie's gone!" And Vernon is doing the thing where it's like, "This is what he would have wanted. This is your shot. Our shot." Which is, you know, like, sends alarm bells ringing in Jay's head. And Jay is like Charlie is dead, and Vernon's like, "He was my friend, too, you know." Jay starts accusing him at this point, like, "Oh, is that how you treat a friend? You kill him, for what? So we could be back on top." First of all, it is odd to me that, like, "You kill him so that I could be back on top." Like, I  don't think Vernon and Jay have that kind of- Vernon is the third in this relationship. [C laughs] Slaycation.

C: Yeah. Yeah. The whole "He was my friend, too" thing feels very much like how, whenever Cas dies, they only focus on Dean's grief. [G laughs] Like, Sam's just supposed to be fine with it.

G: Slay.

C: Slay.

G: Yeah, Vernon's like, "Dude, you're scaring me. What are you talking about?" And Jay keeps on berating him. And suddenly, somebody shows up. And he's like, "Wouldn't be so hard on him, Jay." He didn't do it.

C: Gasp.

G: And then we go to Vernon's hotel room again, and Dean is just looking through a bunch of posters. Then he sees a poster of someone with a birthmark by their eyebrow.

C: Which Charlie has.

G: And he's like, "Does this look like someone we know? Charlie has that birthmark." And I remember thinking while watching this episode, "I love that birthmark on him." Like, you know, having a birthmark on your face, I'm sure that, like, does things to you even if it's like, not even an unflattering birthmark like it's on this guy. I'm glad he became an actor, even if he has a birthmark. [laughing] Turns out, it's probably a fake birthmark.

C: Perhaps. Sad.

G: Sad! Anyway, we go back to the theater, and it is, in fact, Charlie, but now as a 28-year-old or something.

C: And he's played by Lucas from House M.D. even though you didn't notice.

G: Charlie is like, "Wow! It feels good to be young." And Jay is like, "What the hell! How old are you?" And he says, like, "Technically, I'm 28. But I've been around for so long. I was with Barnum. He gave me everything. He gave me the grimoire." Which we see a lot of later. I don't know if it's the grimoire. Or maybe it's a grimoire.

C: I think it's just a grimoire.

G: But like, what we see with Rowena later, it's like, it's real shit. I think it's like, made of human skin or something. And he said, like, "Yeah, I thought it was a scam, but then the spells worked. And then at the end, there's a spell for immortality. And I started using it." And he pulls out like, a deck of tarot cards, and he tells them, "Don't touch it. You don't even know what it will do." And Jay says, "You killed Vance. You killed Jeb Dexter." And Charlie says, like, "You think this is a parlor game? You were being humiliated by those punks! You wouldn't even defend yourself!"

C: And also, specifically, he says that this is a different spell than the immortality spell. Like, he pulled this out specifically just to help Jay with his career and also kill those guys.

G: Yeah. And he reveals to Vernon that like, "This is a gift that I gave to you. You wanted to kill yourself. I saved your life." And he says, like, "I was there for you. Like I've always been. Like I'll always be. Come with me, both of you. We're gonna have a blast. None of the aches and pains, like, all the know-how," blah blah blah. And they just refuse.

C: Well, Vernon's considering it.

G: I think so. Jay says no, but Charlie says like, “I've never had friends like the two of you before."

C: Agh!

G: "I've never offered this to anyone before. So let me do this for you.”

C: Yeah.

G: And Jay says, "Well, what's the price tag? Someone has to die?" And like, "This isn't right, Charlie. Like, what you're doing is not right."

C: And then Charlie says that like, “I don't want to come back alone to start all over alone." Which, agh! Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

G: Vernon kind of gets this. He goes like, "We can be young again." Charlie is saying, "The three of us together, vital and alive, forever." Crazy.

C: Yeah.

G: Crazy.

C: Yeah.

G: Dean comes in and says Shi-Long Lang's iconic line! [both laugh]

C: "Not so fast!"

G: [dramatically] "Not so fast!" [both laughing] I love that.

C: Yeah, but speaking of the Samruby of it all like, I feel like-

G: Wait. I have a question. How did Dean figure out that- What was the poster that he saw?

C: The poster was like, an old poster, from like, the 1900s. Like, early 1900s or something.

G: Ah, okay.

C: So he was like, “Charlie is old, but he's not that old.” [laughs] So he must be some kind of an immortal.

Speaking of the Samruby of at all, this feels so, like “Lucifer Rising." First off, the him killing those people because they were making fun of Jay is very like, [Mick Jagger voice] "Not funnay." [both laugh]

G: Not funnay!

C: - And then killing that demon in the 4.09 flashback. And like, I don't know. This is so like, he genuinely thinks that both of them will be like happy about this and want to take the deal. I really like the idea of like, people who haven't really felt love before, like, feeling it for the first time, but because they're also #evil, like, the ways that they express it betray how much they really don't know the person that they purport to love. And the whole like, dark gift, blah blah blah, shit here feels very like Ruby's “I'm giving you these powers and we're gonna rule Hell together, and won't that be so great? What do you mean you're upset?” And Jay uses the whole, “You used me" terminology as well, so.

G: While you were saying that, I felt the need to clarify that when Hannibal tells Will [C laughs] that “I gave you a gift, but you didn't want it,” Will replies, “Didn't I?”

C: Oh. 

G: Yeah, it's crazy.

Anyway, Sam and Dean enter, and they're saying, [dramatic] “No, not so fast! [C laughs] You're not gonna be immortal!” And then Charlie just starts choking him, like, hanging him. I don't know, stuff happens.

C: Yeah. Sam gets put on the table.

G: Sam gets put on the table. And suddenly, Charlie gets stabbed in the stomach, and he is bleeding out. And what happened was Jay stabbed himself. Like, he pickpocketed a bunch of cards, the tarot cards from Charlie, and then left one that's, I don't know, someone's getting stabbed or whatever. Then he stabbed himself.

C: It was The Magician. 

G: Oh, really? 

C: Yeah. 

G: He stabbed himself so the injury transfers to Charlie, and Charlie is like, “You picked these strangers over me?”

C: Oh my god.

G: And then dies. And Sam and Dean are fine. Hell yeah. 

C: And it's so delicious because I feel like Jay would only have the skill to do that because of the spell that Charlie put on him. Because we see later he can barely shuffle a deck of cards. Like, evil contains the seeds of its own destruction, but the evil seeds are because of love, etc etc.

G: Wow! Poetic. [C laughs]

-

C: We cut to a bar where Jay is hanging out, and he's trying to shuffle a deck of cards, and he’s not doing well. Poor guy. Sam and Dean come in, and they're trying to do a nice thing, where they're like, “Hey, we wanted to thank you for saving our lives yesterday.” And Jay says, “Who give a shit.” But specifically he's very upset because he killed his best friend yesterday, and Vernon left, doesn't want to speak to him ever again because he killed Charlie. And Dean says some dumb shit about how like, “You know Charlie was never going to give up what he was doing. So you did the right thing.” And you know, Jay, thankfully, is not having it. I'm really glad that we have an episode where the people that they quote unquote “saved”, but like not really, are miserable and not grateful, you know?

G: Yeah.

C: Because it’s so annoying to have people week after week be horribly traumatized and have that trauma never manifest itself as anger at Sam and Dean. So yeah, Jay says, “Are you sure about that?” in response to Dean saying that, which I think makes sense, because Charlie said this was the first time he had friends like them. Like, this is his go #1 at love and shit. He's not gonna be very good at it, but maybe later, he will be. He says, “Charlie was like my brother, and now he's dead because I did the right thing. He offered me a gift, and I just threw it back in his face. So now I have to spend the rest of my life old and alone. What's so right about that?” It's soo good.

G: And this was so interesting to me, because, while it was happening, I was thinking to myself, "Every time they do something like this in Supernatural, it always goes round about to like what is happening with Sam and Dean." You know how when Anna was like [C laughing], "I was on the road with a father who wouldn't even respond." And it's like, "No, you weren't. You're not on the road. That's like, you're only saying that because it's the Sam and Dean show." This one, the whole time it was happening, I was thinking, “Oh, how are they gonna circle back to this with Sam or Dean? Or like, what's the relation or whatever?" But it's not as direct.

C: Yeah.

G: Like, whatever conclusion Sam gets from this, it's not direct in that way. And that makes it feel like this is actually something Jay is experiencing as a person, as like a character, like devoid of Sam and Dean, you know? He is just - this is just what he's feeling. And like, he does not exist in service of furthering Sam and Dean's journey, or whatever. I like that.

C: Yeah.

I do find it annoying, the brother language, though. Because, like, we've already talked about Supernatural and the nuclear family. And I feel like the only reason that they consider this an acceptable model for a relationship is because they say that they're like brothers. And so that's like Sam and Dean's family structure. So then they're like, “Okay, well, that's okay, then.” But like, I feel like, if they were like, "This is queerplatonic or romantic," they would not allow it to happen. So, sad!

Also, like, during this whole scene, like, yeah, Sam is coming to a realization of his own, but it's not direct. Because he looks very emotional and teary at all this. I do think there's like, a way to look at this as a direct thing. As like, the gift like being like Ruby's demon blood thing, and the powers that Sam is going to get from them. But I feel like that's not really what Sam is thinking.

G: It's not.

C: So that's interesting. Though I think maybe just the general idea of like, "You should redefine what you think the right thing is" is something that sticks with him?

G: Yeah. But it's not like one is to one, you know?

C: Exactly. Yeah, yeah.

And then Jay decides to leave, and he leaves his card deck on the table, and the bartender's like “Hey, Jay, your cards,” and he says, “Throw them away.” And, you know, everyone's very miserable. Dean says that he's gonna get a beer, and Sam says, “I'm gonna take a walk.” And we go to the last scene. It's dark. There's an alleyway with the car parked in front of it. We're all very serious and emotional, and then suddenly, there's this one car that like- did you notice that one car that just fucking bounces?

G: Yeah. It looks exactly like the Impala.

C: It looks like the Impala, and it looks like the tire pressure is insane [G laughs] because it is like, bouncing down the road.

G: Yeah.

C: Which really undercuts the tension of everything. [G laughs] But, you know, after that car passes by, Sam walks in. He opens the door to the car, and it's Ruby's car, and I wish I was one of the people who knew what car models were, so that I could say something about her choice of car, but I can't.

And he goes in the door and he tells her, “Okay. I'm in." And Ruby asks, "What changed your mind?" And I feel like I would expect more sarcasm from her, but this is a moment where it seems like she just genuinely does want to know. And I'm sure part of why she wants to know is like, for manipulation purposes, to put in her Sam file. I also think she's just curious because she is familiar with him in a way, as a person, and somewhat fond of him. Like, every time I say, like, “They're in love for real,” what I mean is this is not real, but there are moments of real affection that I see come through in their relationship, and those things make me soo insane, and I feel like this is one of the moments.

G: Yeah.

C: And then he says, “I don't want to be doing this when I'm an old man.” Which doesn't make any sense because if you're not doing this, you'll die.

G: I have no idea.

C: Like, [laughs] what do you mean?

G: I love this because it's like, you know, I think I love this episode, because it's like, it is not about Sam and Dean.

C: Yeah.

G: All the Sam and Dean scenes kind of don't make sense. I think Julie Siege just wanted to write about all these other people, and Sam and Dean just happen to be there. Like, even-

C: I feel like these are OCs she's developed for a while, but she's like, "Well, they can't carry a whole thing on their own. Let's put them into Supernatural."

G: Yeah. And what's especially funny to me is, usually Sam and Dean save people in a way, right? They do absolutely no saving in this episode. They show up, and Jay saves them.

C: They make Jay aware of the situation, maybe.

G: Yeah. Jay saves them. So like, okay.

C: Yeah.

G: So I think that could be it for our post-episode synopsis. But do you have anything more?

C: No. Old man yaoi.

G: Old man yaoi.

-

G: Okay. Best Line/Worst Line.

C: Huh.

G: What's your best line?

C: I really liked "So now I have to spend the rest of my life old and alone." It's very like, "Oh. I believe that. And you're right. Like, these people are it for you." Very emotionally affecting.

G: Yeah. I actually- I don't know. I liked the "He offered me a gift, and I just threw it back in his face."

C: [laughs] For Hannibal reasons?

G: For Hannibal reasons, yeah!

C: Slay.

G: What's the worst line?

C: Uh...

G: Every time Sam and Dean spoke to each other, I'm like, "Girl." [C laughing] I don't know. I guess I don't like the whole like, "You want to end up like Travis? Or Gordon?" God.

C: Oh, yeah, that was fucking annoying.

G: And then Dean being like-

C: So mean to Bobby!

G: "Oh, yeah, Bobby. Poster child for growing old gracefully." Like, fuck off!

C: He's literally fine!

G: He's fine, you asshole.

C: He's nice.

G: He's normal! [both laugh]

What's your best and worst? Well, what's your worst, I guess?

C: I can't think of any besides yours. I mean, I guess it was not nice of them to make fun of Jeb's eyeliner.

G: Yeah, I guess.

C: But mostly I agree with what you said. I just want to see if there's anything else, and there isn't.

G: Yeah. How about our spreadsheet?

C: Spread those sheets.

G: This one, I think, is interesting. We don't have racism. We don't have misogyny.

C: Well, because there's no women in it-

G: Or people of color, yeah.

C: Well, there's Ruby, but there's no Dean and Ruby in it. That's the fun part.

G: Homophobia.

C: I think- Okay, there's the Chief, and there's the eyeliner.

G: Yeah.

C: And I think the Chief thing is homophobic in that, like, they could have sent him to like a dominatrix or something, right?

G: Yeah.

C: But like, they were like, "It'll be extra funny if it's a leather daddy." So that's something.

G: I don't know. Like, I hesitate to so call it homophobia.

C: Really. Okay.

G: I mean, if this was in any other show, I would've been like, "I don't think it's homophobic."

C: That's true. But it's in Supernatural. [G laughs]

G: Yeah.

C: I mean, it is in Supernatural, though.

G: It is. Yeah, exactly.

C: And it is in 2009, which I think- sometimes like I forget how the era means that things that I just find like fine and normal would be homophobia. Like, that poor, dead, gay intern. That stuff was homophobic when it was written because of the parts of it that were supposed to be funny. So I think there's something there.

Also, we gave "Wishful Thinking" [G laughing] a 1 just for Dean calling Amaretto "a girl drink."

G: [laughs] I mean, we can give this a 2.

C: Okay, yeah, that seems correct. Yeah. Okay. 0, 0, 2. We did it.

G: Well. I would say this is probably a mid-8s episode.

C: For the IMDbs?

G: 8.4 is my guess. Yeah, we are in, in fact, the IMDb.

C: Yeah, I really liked it, but I don't know how other people are gonna feel about it. Because a lot of people hate when episodes don't focus on Sam and Dean.

G: Sam and Dean, yeah.

C: So... but it was compelling! I was compelled. I don't know whether to go above or below you. I'm gonna go above just because it's what my heart says, even though I know I'm wrong. So an 8.5.

G: Okay, let's see.

Bro, it's a 7.9.

C: What are they- what? For what? Why? What do they hate about it so much?

Wasn't- okay, "Family Remains" was a 7.9 too, which, that one at least makes sense. But what do they dislike about it?

G: They think the Chief thing is queerbait with Dean.

C: Huh. Wait, that's why, it's rated low?

G: No, this is actually a 10 over 10. But-

C: Oh. If you wanted to, you could read his, like, "I think I'm gonna throw up" thing as "I think I hauve Covid" horny thing thing if you wanted?

G: Yeah.

C: People like to cut that scene so it goes straight from the guy showing up to Dean swallowing to make it seem more like an arousal response, so I can see why some people would think that. But, I don't know. It's just clearly just them having a laugh.

Okay, thank god. cubsandculture calls it "One of the very best episodes. A tragicomedy to its core," and it says that it's "one of the most overtly homosexual and/or homoerotic episodes in the entire series with the bond between Jay and Charlie." [G laughs] Yeah, they say it almost plays out like a Hays' Code era gay villain, which I think is correct.

G: That's the review that I quoted.

C: Oh, yeah, no, it does say that it's queerbaiting with Dean to have the Chief. I mean, maybe like, like with an established pattern, you could like, put it in as one of the things. But yeah.

This one references Rufus and Dean's conversation, which, yeah, correct. It is important to think about.

G: Yeah. It is something you think about!

C: This one ends with - it starts with talking about the episode, and then it ends with, "This is why I stopped watching at Season 9. It gets depressing the longer it goes because it's just the sheer time these two guys have spent in this miserable situation." So real. [G laughs]

G: I mean, so do we.

C: Yeah. yeah.

None of these really explain why they don't like the episode.

G: Yeah. But I think what happens is when fewer people rate an episode, it is most of the time rated lower.

C: Right. Because only people with very strong opinions either way would comment.

G: Yeah. Like, for example, "Heaven and Hell" was an 8.8, right? And 5.6k people rated it. This one has 4.6k ratings, and it's rated lower.

C: I see.

G: I mean, recently, I've been rewatching Kim's Convenience, and I looked up the IMDb for that, and it is shockingly low. And I'm like, "Oh, it's because less people watch it."

G: There's a review praising Barry Bostwick, right? So I went to his to his IMDb page, and literally the first thing in his description is "tall," and then in open-close parentheses, "(6'4")." [laughing

C: Wow, just like Jared Padalecki.

G: I love that! He is literally tall (6'4").

G: Okay, I think that's it  for this episode of Busty Asian Beauties. Next week, we will be discussing Season 4, Episode 13: "After School Special"!

C: Oh! Okay. G: Yeah! Leave us a rating or a review wherever you get your podcasts. C: Follow us on social media!

G: We're gonna see the jacket! We're gonna see the leather jacket! It's gonna be on teenage Dean!

C: Aw. That's nice. And we get to see- is this the one where Sam-

G: Is in high school, yeah.

C: - and his English teacher talk? Yeah. What a sweet kid.

G: I guess middle school.

C: Well. Follow us on social media. We are on twitter at twitter.com/BeautiesPodcast and on Tumblr actually at bustyasianbeautiespod.tumblr.com. Our official tag is #BABPod, B-A-B-POD. Thanks to everyone who's donated to our Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/bustyasianbeautiespod, and check out our merch at babpod.redbubble.com. G: Yeah. If you have any feedback, comments, or inquiries, you can email us at bustyasianbeautiespod@gmail.com. See you guys next time! [both] Bye! [guitar music]

-

[beep]

G: She said, "I have sensitive hearing. Don't laugh so loud!"

C: Aww. She's just like your cat from 4.11 or 4.10.

G: Yeah. You know what? That cat has not stopped biting me. I think maybe he just hates me.

C: Huh! Maybe.

G: But he loves to be on my bed. This is the issue. He would go to my bed, and I'd be like, "Hi! You're in my bed!" And then he just starts biting me? [C laughs] It's a lovely experience

C: Does he enjoy being in your bed when you're not there?

G: No. He only goes to my bad when I'm in there.

C: Like, he only goes there to bite you. [G laughs]

G: Well, I like to think that he goes there because he loves me, and he wants to cuddle. But I think he also wants to bite me.

C: Uh-huh. I mean, maybe this is just like a cute aggression response.

G: Oh yeah!

C: Like, maybe he loves you so much that he can't handle it.

G: Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's not that bad.

C: Anyway.

G: It's chewtoy era for me.

C: Yeah.

G: Anyway...

-

[beep]

G: You know, I watch Rhett & Link, and they often say that when they were in grade school or something, they were made to memorize every county in North Carolina. So like, they were very familiar with the North Carolina counties. Like, they could name like all hundred of them or something because they were trained to do that from a young age. Did you ever experience that? [laughs] Whichever state you're from, whatever. [C laughs] Do you have counties in- in the whatever state you're from? [laughing] I don't know what-

C: There are counties in the whatever state I'm from, but I did not memorize them. I feel like I could probably list a decent amount of them because of a research project that I did at school. But probably not all of them.

G: Oh, yeah. I mean, I do remember that one time that a writer went to your school and asked you where you live, and you couldn't say, [C laughs] and she was like, "You should figure it out. You do live here, right?" [laughing]

C: She was- yeah. She was like, "Oh, did you just move here?" And I was like, "... No." And she was like, "Maybe you should look at a map sometime." [G laughing] And I was like, “Oh my god, I can't believe I was humiliated by Victoria Chang, author of Barbie Chang and also like, The Boss, which was the poetry book we were reading at hers." But yeah.

G: Yeah. Wonderful.

C: And then she signed my copy of The Boss with like, “Glad I got to help you get oriented” or something. Like, shut up, Victoria!

G: That's sweet, though. I feel like that's a more memorable experience than if she just went, "Hi! Sign. Bye!" you know?

C: I would rather have a neutral-

G: Now you are mortified for life! [laughing]

C: Yeah. Exactly. And it's so terrible because I was already discussing with my English teacher how I wanted her to fuck me so bad before this. [G laughs] Anyway.

G: Yeah. Crystal has a very normal reaction to people with authority.

C: [laughing] Shut up!

G: The podcasters need not know that. The podcast listeners need not know that.

C: Yeah, yeah.

G: But now they do!

C: I'm the authority in the podcast listener's mind. [G laughing]

G: Well. God, we are all over this episode. Well.

-

[beep]

C: Wait, you did not recognize him? At all?

G: Not at all. Not at all.

C: Lucas is like, not too minor of a minor character.

G: Yeah, no idea who it is.

C: You don't re- you don't remember House hiring a private investigator?

G: No. You know who I remember? The mouse?

C: Who?

G: Steve McQueen.

C: Oh my god, Steve McQueen! Wasn't Steve a rat?

G: Look. [laughs] I'm not a zoology major. [C laughs]

C: Yeah, it's a rat. He's a rat. Anyway.

G: Yeah. Love him.

C: Young Charlie does not look like BJA due to he is Lucas from House M.D., but perhaps with the absence of that.

G: I can't believe I watched House watch a rat Steve McQueen and still was like, "Yeah, that was a reference to the Cars movies." [both laugh] I mean, I just assumed that Steve McQueen, Dean Winchester-

C: I mean, he likes monster trucks. Is the Cars movies really that far from that?

G: Exactly! He loves a monster trucks show, so, you know.

C: Yeah.

-

[beep]

G: I want to fucking tell you about Hannibal. Can I? I'll just do it

C: Yeah.

G: We've been recording for so long anyway. Who give a shit? C: Who give a shit? Okay. Tell me about Hannibal.

G: 'Cause the thing is, throughout that season, Will was playing- was double-bluffing or whatever. It's like, he's on the FBI's side, but the way he's doing it, he is befriending Hannibal. Like, he's doing what Hannibal wants him to do. But then, as it goes on further, it becomes blurrier and blurrier which side he's actually betraying. And he was supposed to- and at the end of it, when he realizes that the FBI are probably gonna kill Hannibal or whatever, and they're supposed to run away together, 'cause that's the thing. They're supposed to run away together that night. And then, like, Will was thinking, "I wouldn't run away" or "We wouldn't run away together. I'm just gonna let the FBI kill him" or whatever. And then he realizes, like, "Oh, I can't do that." So he calls Hannibal and goes, "Run."

C: Uh-huh.

G: And the way Hannibal interpreted that was, like, demeaning. Like, he's taunting him or whatever. He didn't understand that Will wanted to run away with him or wanted to save him or whatever.

C: Ohh.

G: He thought that Will was- Will betrayed him, basically. And so him being like, [dramatic] "I gave you a gift! But you didn't want it!" Will was like, "No, I did, though. But you still gutted me and left me on the floor to bleed out, so. And also killed our-"

C: Daughter?

G: "- adopted daughter." Crazy, crazy show.

C: Yeah.

G: And next season, he tells someone, like, Will, "I wanted to run away with him that night, and in a way, I still want to do it." Like, bruh! At this point? [C laughs] But I support it.

C: Yeah. Yeah.

G: Hannibal's crazy. It's a crazy show. [C laughs] God, we need to watch it together! But I know you don't like- don't want to.

C: Well.

G: But we should. But we should. But you won't.

C: But I won't.

G: Maybe we can do a thing where I watch it and then I tell you about it, a la when you told me beat for beat everything that happens in-

C: The first episode of Interview with the Vampire. And then the rest of the episodes [laughs], so yes.

G: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[mothmanslovechild]

I'm losing my mind over GO2

Okay, so I'm having a lot of feelings about Good Omens Season 2 but I know not everyone has seen it yet so I'll hide this a bit, even if I am trying not make it as non-spoilery as I can and also I need to talk to people about this

First of all, if I see anyone trying to fucking boycott or get pissed at Neil Gaiman, you can go straight to hell. Or worse, heaven. And I hope Terry Pratchett makes fun of you. Neil has said that this is act two of three (I'm paraphrasing and act three is not definite just a hope) and to leave these characters on this cliffhanger? If we don't get a season three, it will not be by Neil's choice. Boycotting will only hurt chances of getting that season three and a (hopefully) happier ending. I was bawling my eyes out and am still a mess over the end of the last episode but I also firmly believe that this is not the end. Keep it together, people. We're not going down the toxic landslide of blaming creators and causing a fuss and demonising ourselves as fans and making people hate us and destroying something we all love.

Secondly, I need to talk about that ending. I do not and will not hate Aziraphale for it. Our Angel is definitely being manipulated but it also shows the depth of religious trauma. If anyone has religious trauma, it's Aziraphale. Throughout both seasons he speaks party lines of Heaven even when he's clearly unsure about them. Even when he disagrees, he keeps repeating that god's plan is the right way and if (insert whatever monstrosity) is god's plan than it must be right. Look how far he pushed it with Job - he kept checking and double checking and questioning to be sure that Heaven was doing the right thing. And when he sided with Crowley and helped instead, he genuinely thought he was going to hell for it. Even though it was a good thing and he recognised that it was a good thing. The same goes for the situation with Elspeth to a degree. Aziraphale kept trying to take the moral high ground with her and ruin her chances until it became clear that doing bad things now meant good things later. Like god, he was focussing on the big picture instead of the small one. Not about Elspeth and her needing to eat and survive, but that humans will learn more and be able to survive better as a whole.

Someone else worded it much better than I will (I'll try and link their post later if I can!) but there's also the fact that Aziraphale and Crowley are having two different conversations at the end of the last episode. Go read their post to get the full story because I wholeheartedly agree with them and it really is worded much better, but long story short is that "nothing lasts forever" means two different things. Crowley hears that they don't last forever, that the bookshop doesn't, that nothing does and it's not worth it because what's the point (which has been in Crowley's own thoughts), while Aziraphale means that they can't continue like this forever, they can't be static, they need to adapt because what they tried hasn't worked. Honestly, just go read the post. Please.

NOW FOR NICER THINGS

I'm genuinely not sure some scenes were even real. The dance (the ball and sorry), the Bentley, just some of the lines where I just wanted to melt and live in that moment forever. Seeing their love spanning centuries and the ridiculous mischief they get into. Jim in the fucking fur coat. BEFORE the fall. The fact they all REMEMBER before the fall and the war. Bee being goals, honestly. Them and Gabriel. I just...Oh my god.

Also, you have no idea how much I lost it when I saw posts comparing to the end of Supernatural. I can't with you guys, my neighbours probably heard me cackling.

AND and that was the queerest shit I've ever watched. And there was no bury your gays, nothing homophobic, nothing like that even mentioned. And not just our three main couples, but in the background too. The magicians partner, so many generally NB angels/demons, tough bloke with grindr, it's all over the place. I love it. All I ever want is queer media that doesn't make queerness the main part of the plot. And by that I mean that it's just two people falling in love or just queer people existing without things having to revolve around traumatic/uncomfortable experiences or reactions. All I ask for is happy queer media.

And Michael Sheen's twitter picture....Boy, you're killing us. Not to mention Neil and "wait and see"

I have a lot more feelings so, anyone, feel free to message me and become internet friends because I NEED TO TALK ABOUT THIS SHOW.

[sneakysnoo]

sorry im gonna elaborate on my prev tags. yes if zira and crowley are allo the kiss is fucking important holy shit. and i get and support ace headcanons and kisses arent inherently sexual but like. YES people wanted a kiss. a lot of people would feel unfulfilled if they were in a long standing pining will they wont they and never got to kiss or touch. craving and wanting touch of COURSE doesnt make the love less real. the author not LETTING them express that human physicality, while writing in that they do have those drives, is fucked up and you should expect the audience to be pissed, because it results in a lot of aimless wheel-turning and not a lot of what the people want and come to the series for- gay fucking angels and demons

imagine if we got two seasons of ineffable husbands instead of one will-they-wont-they and one season thats probably gonna get halfway taken up with yaoi divorce fever. like come on. (not that what we have is bad per se, but we got maybe 5-10 minutes of crowley and zira actually talking about being like. unambiguously, textually gay gay in a way that cant be seen as like. besties in that whole season lets be real)

personally im cool with it because without a kiss, a mlm relationship is much safer to put to screen. theres a big discomfort with homosexuality and the need to frame it as transgressive first, romance second, the need to not alienate the audience by letting them be as charming!!! and sweet and in love as possible!!!! for AS LONG AS POSSIBLE NO KISS UNTIL THE VERRRYYYYY END!!! and thats just hedging your bets. its capitulating to the straights and being cowardly. the straight couple got ON SCREEN FUCKING in season 1 and niel made us all watch that shit!! im cool with it because zira and crow are as you said, unambiguously homosexual, but the kiss was necessary, because i can guarantee you if i showed my christian mother season 2 of good omens she would think zira and crow were totally straight until maybe the last episode, where they actually have a real conversation about it and also the kiss.

so. yes, making the gay romance textual instead of implied is important. and yes, the way you do that in a visual medium like film is either the characters kiss or they very clearly speak to one another and are like. i, a man, do in fact love you, another man, in a romantic way, and i am saying this in a way that the people in the audience who don't like that cannot come back and say it's not true. holy FUCK

Do you think ....

Like, so many people have been asking for a kiss, begging for a kiss, clamoring for a kiss, to make it real, to confirm they're in love, to reassure us it's real.

Do you think, in some small way, Neil Gaiman put that kiss in there, in that way, to say -- It's not the kiss that makes the love real. The love is there, and you know it's there, and it's not the kiss that made you know that.

Maybe?

[ben-the-hyena]

Another vent post you can ignore and am sorry if it's in the main tag (I only do that so I or my followers or visitors can find it easily on my blog)

Btw before anyone remarks it, when I often complain about the way the ancient demons are portrayed in HH and HB I actually don't care about demonology and angelology accuracy, they are copyright free in fact mythological characters we can use however we want, I love other media in which angels and demons are inaccurate to their real selves like Good Omens and all these headcanons and fan theories people have with the Devil from Cuphead. No, my big issue is how not only they are completely different characters their main recognizable traits become background stuff (Stolas isn't a wise teacher anymore but just the horny gay stereotype. And why is Paimon not a humanoid demon on a camel anymore he looks nothing like his OG self. I was explained why perhaps snowflakes being geometrical are associated now with Andrealphus but STILL it's a big contrast with what he is supposed to do. AND THERE IS A LITERAL DEER DEMON WHY DID THEY MAKE ALASTOR ONE WHEN HE ISN'T AND WHY ARE STOLAS AND ALASTOR NOT FALLEN ANGELS ANYMORE-) and make them all interchangeable (ALL so far are excited and slutty with youngsters voices and swears full their mouths ; like I DO know Asmodeus is often seen as the demon of Lust so it's logical he is slutty and owns a brothel but since everyone else is like that he does NOT stand out at all) with oversatured designs, they take so much room in tags and Google searches they overshadow the real ones or the ones that appear in other media and the most rabid of Viv fans will argue they are her characters and if you reuse them you do plagiarism. And that's because of these things that as much as I don't care for angelology or demonology accuracies and completely forgive them for other fandoms and original stories I roll my eyes so hard you can see white and red blood veins when it comes to these shows

[rocketmuse]

I thought I'd share my playlist for the anniversary of the boathouse kiss. :)

Song translations, MANY thoughts, and timeline under the break.

Noise warning for song 19, Hinahanap-Hanap Kita. 4:23 to the end. Loud high pitched beeps.

YouTube music version to be made soon.

Translations for foreign songs:

Ewan [Dunno] — Apo Hiking Society — Filipino/Tagalog

Amour plastique [Plastic love] — Videoclub — French

Panalangin [Prayer] — Apo Hiking Society/Moonstar88 — Filipino/Tagalog

Hinahanap-Hanap Kita [I'm Looking For You] — Rivermaya — Filipino/Tagalog

This is a collaborative playlist made with my friend.

Thought Good Old-Fashioned Lover Boy would be a good starter song. Something about the music. Represents a good start of Alec persuing Maurice, like, hey, I can be yours... Whatcha doin'?

I added Puppy Princess because of the chorus but I know some people don't like that song so... You can skip if you'd like. KISS MEEEEE KIISS ME WITH YIIR EYESSS CLOSED . ALL I WANT IS YOU YEAH YOU. TELL ME I'M NOT FUNNY TELL ME I'M LEGIIIIT

Ewan. OH MY GOD this song is so them. Alec cares for Maurice, and doesn't like not being taken seriously or being treated badly and brushed off.

"I don't know why you're like that, you're difficult to talk to and you're a snob" COME ON IS THAT NOT THEM — Just a smile from you, and I'll be in heaven. Please give me a response, anything but "No idea"... What a perfect representation of Alec's continuous persuit of Maurice, always talking, always trying...

I could go on with every lyric.

Edit: I just realised this song fits so well for Alec's letters and meeting at the museum. Must resist the urge to add the same exact track twice.

So about Touch Me... Some of the lyrics apply better in other versions. Spotify just has this version tho. Touch me, just like that.

All I've Ever Known. Maurice discovered so much that night about touch and sharing and being with someone. He wants to be with Alec. "All I've ever known is how to hold my own, but now I want to hold you too. [Hold you close, I don't wanna ever have to let you go. Hold you tight, I don't wanna to back to the lonely life.]" Alec opened up his eyes and he'll never be the same.

Can't Help Falling in Love With You. 'Did you ever dream you'd a friend, Alec? ... Someone to last your whole life...' 'Alec, you're a dear fellow and we've been very happy.'

I'd Like To Walk Around In Your Mind was added from Maurice's perspective. Perhaps it fits Alec too...

I think Love At First Sight has the double meaning of the literal title, as well as "wouldn't you like to kiss her" perhaps being... Something Maurice would hear.

I Don't Dance. Based on this post/edit. Please watch this video oh my God.

Pink in the Night. Alec yearns for Maurice in the boathouse. He hasn't come. He hears his heart breaking tonight.

Every lyric is perhaps pulled straight from Alec's brain, to be honest. I remember seeing a post with this song in other contexts with them too. So yes, a few meanings.

Amour plastique. Alec reminiscences on the night in the Russet room. Why hasn't he come?

In my mind, everything goes wild. I lose myself in your eyes. I drown myself in the vagueness of your loving gaze.

And at night I cry tears that stream down my cheeks. I think of you only when the days ends, only when my sad demons descend upon my mind, into the bottomless abyss.

Waiting in the boathouse at night, when the day ends.

I ring out in kisses all down your chest. Lost in the avalanche of my heart astray. Who are you? Where are you?

The moments of then repeat in his mind. Where is Maurice?

I suppose Hopelessly Devoted To You and I'm A Fool To Want You are self explanatory. Maurice should really come... Alec really toughed it out, 2 days he spent in the boathouse, really wanted to see Maurice, really knew they had something, and doesn't want to be treated like a dog. Generally, his 1st letter.

Moon Song. My friend said they added it as a general love song. — Why do you treat me like this? Why didn't you come to the boathouse? — Alec's 2nd letter as a whole. Plus bits of 1st.

And you pushed me in, and now my feet can't touch the bottom of you. ... So I will wait for the next time you want me, like a dog with a bird at your door.

Ewan would fit here tbh.

Panalangin. My only prayer in this lifetime: to be beside you, to be together with you, that's my prayer.

"I since cricket match do long to ... place both arms round you and share with you, the above now seems sweeter than words can say."

And this heart won't allow if you will be away from me, my love, please listen.

It also fits the end of museum.

I Want You. Maurice, can you come to the boathouse already? Alec has no power to teleport you there. I hold one card that I can't use.

I found you. I found the door, but when I stepped through, there was no floor. He found Maurice, bit he's not being here for Alec.

You're coming back And it's the end of the world We're starting over And I love you, darling And I am done, dear

Alec wishes this would happen. Also, he does come back later and they love again over, and "it is finished".

Credit for suggesting the next two songs goes to @beatle-capaldi!!! He also wrote was in quotations!

English Summer Rain

The Most Radical Thing To Do

Hinahanap-Hanap Kita. 1st letter, he's looking for Maurice. Thinking about them together.

In my thoughts and dreams, in every turn of destiny, I look for you. Also applies to that hotel/post-hotel feeling. I look for you, even if I try to forget you, saying goodbye, looking back...

Wildest Dreams. They think a lot of each other. They share once more. But they must say goodbye. Alec saw this coming. Maurice hopes that Alec will remember him like this.

I Hear a Symphony. Alec truly opened up Maurice's eyes. Maurice was meant to be with him. He helped Maurice, changed his life. But now Alec is leaving on ship... Or is he? The symphony leads into...

An orchestral sountrack. The Boathouse. Unfortunately the Maurice soundtrack is not on spotify. It's on my personal YouTube music version. I added it because it just captures the boathouse the only way the sountrack itself can.

The Word of Your Body (Reprise). MLM people have moment of romantic tension, which culminates in confessions of love. Just had to add it. "Haven't you heard the word of your body?" perfectly describes Alec gifting and showing Maurice the wonder of truest physical affection and love. He lets Maurice be okay with himself, and again, changes everything. Every lyric is perfect.

Also, sorry JBW, I like other versions more... Too bad Spotify is mean.

I See The Light. Yeah. Every lyric. Maurice is Rapunzel. Movie Blond too. Both the morning at Russet room and the museum. And the world has somehow shifted. All at once everything is different, now that I see you. "By now they were in love with each other consciously."...

Suddenly Seymour. Suddenly see more, yeah? Clive = ass and someone gives him affection for once, wow! Sidenote, I want to sing this with them and their accents... Suddenly SCUDDER...

Helpless. Musical theatre songs seem to be good retellings of their love story. It's why they belong in post boathouse. Summaries and retellings. They're also good at conveying love they'd feel for each other in general, all times ever. Like loving men, retelling a story.

I'll Cover You. Cute love song feat. gays. I like to imagine them dancing around, declaring their love and devotion for each other. Walking and dancing around like in the original scene, sometime post canon. In my own imagination, I thought of Alec as Angel and Maurice (Christopher) as Collins.

Video Games. They must love spending time together. I thought this to be Maurice POV. Only worth living if somebody is loving you I mean, come on.

It's you, it's you, it's all for you. Everything I do. I tell you all the time, heaven is a place on Earth with you.

Un sospiro. I headcanon that Maurice picks up the piano and plays for Alec. Perhaps he picked it up bc of/after Clive, but now can play it for someone who gives a shit.

Something about the melody reminds me of them. And then it gets more intense... A bit like the passions of love, showing up in sharing and touch and more, too.

Liebestraum. I mean, it means love dream/dream of love. I just had to. Also I just like Liszt.

Take Me Up With You, Dearie. This song is just so sweet... So soft... Edwardian to boot... I love how quintessentially 1909 it is. Discovered it in a YT video. The thought of them getting married makes me cry. This song in general makes me want to cry, it's so romantic, tender, and exudes my favourite era...

Let us float, float, float through the clouds, and just have a lot of fun. We'll go up, up, up as two and then come down as one.

Put Your Head on My Shoulder. We Belong Together. I always imagine Maurice and Alec slowdancing to songs that come on the radio together, when the 1950s hits... Alec probably rests his head on his shoulder as this plays and they dance...

I'm using a lot of ellipses, am I secretly Rupert Graves?

Welcome to the 70s and 80s. They love dancing together and being with each other. Now, Panalangin can be a happy song. My only prayer for this lifetime ... To be together with you. And this heart won't allow if you will be away from me.

Just the Two of Us. What a nice, vibey song. Great title, great scenario of them dancing to this...

Tiny Dancer. Your Song. MLM people in the 70s + Radio, being happy and in love with each other. — I just thought I should add some Elton. A different friend, and I, like him. Maurice sings to Alec, "And you can tell everybody this is your song." That I put down in words how wonderful life is with you in the world.

Electric Love. Fun fact: this song got me to share the playlist. Got me thinking about them and their anniversary again. The funky busy instrumental describes well their passionate love. The highs of electric LOOOOOOVE describe the intensity of them.

Alt text continued: themselves together under and the love. And the love. The song has its own tension and it perfectly pictures their own tension. So yeah, this is THEIR song quite literally.

Sorry if my music taste is perhaps basic. I just made it for when I hear songs that are Them.

Falling for Ya. Alec falls for Maurice. "I saw you when you first drove up, Mr Hall..." Something about Maurice, right? Plus really nice vintage vibes with the music. The bit about Into your arms and it's a secure sure sounds like Maurice. Awh, they're falling for *each other*...

Rainbow Connections. Gay and bi people. Marriage. Everything that Maurice and Alec went through to get here, where they were meant to be. Clive. Working for Clive. Leading up to now.

All the things that had to go right, all the things that had to go wrong, that lead us to the place where we were going all along.

On the YT version there's a soft/jazzy cover of Panalangin here. Because they're old and spending time together and being happy. What a throwback, a defined meaning in their lives over time.

Still Into You. After all these decades... Old and grown, together... True soulmates... Two men can defy the world... Maurice and Alec still roam the greenwood. Imagine Maurice meeting Alec's mom in this context. If only.

Postmodern Jukebox cover, because they are a quintessentially 20th century couple. They exude vintage.

Some piano playing for Alec. Soft, tender, romantic, emotional, true. Feels like nighttime. Feels like Maurice and Alec. And a throwback to the pre 1914 world as well. Claire de Lune feels like... A credits of life piece. Time spent in the early 1980s. Nocturne feels like that too, but more romantic. Smidge less nighttime. Ah yes, Gymnopédies. The truest credits feel of them all. None of these actually are credits for Maurice and Alec, but I struggle to find the word for this feeling. But yeah. These all have Them vibes to me. Piano of the time just does I suppose. Glad to be reminded of them at any time.

What a long playlist. Like going through almost their whole lives together. 1:52 hrs. Almost like a movie. Imagine that. A full movie of THEIR lives... But leaving to the imagination was a good thing. Led to this such action. Thank you E.M. Forster.

Timeline:

1. Pendersleigh

4. & 5. Russet Room. Night, then Morning

9. Cricket

10. Boathouse Nights

18. The Museum

20. The Hotel

21. After

23. The Boathouse

24. They Still Roam the Greenwood

I just like to imagine them dancing to songs on the radio, for decades to come...