#sorry for another long commentary was purely unintentional

[langbloor]

@hindisoup glad you appreciate my tag ramblings! Standard Instruction Hindi vs Vernacular Hindi vs Hinglish has constantly been on my mind after I heard an international airlines keep Seat Belt/सीट बेल्ट in their translated airline instructions instead of using कुर्सी की पेटी, which is a standard term used by all Indian domestic airlines in their Hindi instructions. This, among other things, like instead of using a standard 'धूम्रपान निषेध' for 'No Smoking' or 'निकास' for Exit, etc, perhaps are indicative that the airlines had someone in the crew (likely someone not familiar with standard airline Hindi but someone who can confidently speak Hindi) translate things. These terms aren't frequently used in daily speech and it is totally believable to me that someone who uses and is accustomed to English instructions only wouldn't be able to pick out the exact terms native Hindi speakers from majority Hindi speaking countries would be more used to hearing in standard regulations/instructions. It gets even trickier with online environments since those places are even less regulated per se in terms of language. If the idea is accessibility, using 'होम' instead of 'मुख्यपृष्ठ' sorta makes more sense - easier to read, shorter to remember, not a difficult non-Hindi word. But a company's budget and resources towards translating things sometimes limits the extents of that and sometimes that means either retention of non-standard "Hinglish" words (Seat Belt) or using dictionary words with no colloquial context whatsoever 🤷‍♀️ Ultimately, the goal with any translation should be accessibility imo, but I think corporations often don't go all the way with that due to some very understandable limitations. Honestly, consulting a few native speakers who either use government language or standard instruction Hindi as part of their jobs would do, but I doubt IT companies do that. Even more difficult if your company isn't based in India at all!

[occupyvenus]

Do you think that maybe the reason why Jon didn't share anything personal with Dany is because he was trying to deny his feelings for her by keeping things less personal as possible? And 7.07 he was finally deciding to love her?

Hi, nonny!

You know what, the first thing I’ll have to admit is that is that’s a valid argument. It’s completely possible and I have no real way to just outright refute it. It would be mostly in character for Jon, I would expect D&D to be more clear about (in the writing itself, not the additional commentary. That’s not a very reliable source for anything in my opinion… Jon snow is dead as dead, y’all) it if it was the case, but that isn’t a very solid argument on it’s own either. 

Before I go on to explain why I believe it’s unlikely, at least in my opinion, I would like to point out tree thing considering the “political jon” theory and j0nerys in general. Buckle up, I will go off topic here. 

1) While the theory gives a sufficient explanation for Jon’s behaviour in ep6 and ep7 without him having any romantic feelings towards Dany, it does not necessarily mean that he has none at all. It’s plausible that he is at least attracted and/or intrigued with her. He might even have stronger feelings than this. I’ll go into why I personally don’t believe this a bit later, but there’s no way for me to objectively deny it either. 

2) I honestly expected Jon and Dany to have some sort of romantic entanglement (unintentional incest is something that grrm would definitely do), but even with this in possibility in mind, it would still be bad storytelling. I’m not talking about the way it was presented per se, but the implications for Dany’s character development in particular. What really bothers me, or rather what makes me question the romance presented by the show, is the fact that both Jon’s newfound political conviction (Dany should rule the seven kingdoms, he gives up Northern independence to Dany freely because he believes in her cause) seems to perfectly align with his personal feelings (he’s genuinely in love with her). It’s too easy. Dany doesn’t has to give up either to gain the other. Her relationship with Jon comes without cost. 

This actually halts Dany’s character development. Or at least, it doesn’t actively further it. She gets everything she wants, both another kingdom’s allegiance and the man she has feelings for. There is no lesson for her to be learned by entering this relationship. She doesn’t have to make a hard choice, there’s no more interpersonal tension for her. No tension means no drama. No drama means no arc. No arc means no story. No story means no point. In the end, she doesn’t even have to decide between fighting the dead or fighting for the Throne. Though this will mostly likely be an issue next season. It all adds up too nicely. Dany should have to make some hard decisions, because that is how a character grows. This should also apply to her relationship with Jon, something that should be of foremost significance to her overall character development. That’s just something I would expect from a romantic relationship between two main characters. Dany should either remain unrelenting on her position on Northern Independence, straining her personal relationship with Jon, or she should be willing to enter a personal relationship with Jon, without also gaining his political support as a subject. Jon saying something like “I love you, but I can’t bend the knee because my people and all.” and Dany being all “I don’t care and stuff” or “I’ll bend the knee, but just so you know I’m not happy about it. I hate that you force me to do this.” and Dany being “I’m sorry you feel that way, but I’ve been working towards this goal half my life and I can’t give you a pass because I’m into you and stuff”. 

Some people might accuse me of thinking so because I begrudge her both political and personal happiness, but it simply doesn’t make for a compelling character arc or story. These issues could/should be resolved at the end of the series, not when we still have 6 feature-film long episodes ahead of us. Even if you could explain the, in my opinion unsatisfying development of their romance by saying Jon was simply denying his feelings, this is a critique that remains. Even the revelation of r+l=j would be a rather weak source of conflict if Dany and Jon are in a mutual, deep, sincere relationship AND agree on her being the rightful queen of the seven kingdoms.The romantic relationship between two major characters having no real personal tension during the entire finale season … just sounds implausible to me. Even if their relationship was later hindered by external sources, there should be internal sources of conflict as well, something that they have to resolve in the course of the next season. This is something from a pure story-telling perspective that bugs me about the j0nerys romance in season 7. In my opinion, the marge!Jon theory builds a compelling case in remediating this little problem (in addition to explaining some of the other ooc moments of the season). Don’t get me wrong, all these things can line up … all conflict should be resolved eventually, but not before the conclusion of the story. Not this soon into Jon and Dany’s shared arc. 

3) My opinions about all this are of course influenced by my other ideas about the series’s final conclusion. I’m trying to stay as unbiased as possible when talking about the actual direction the series could take (compared to my personal preferences), but my opinion on something as important as the relationship between two major characters is not going to be unaffected by my other opinions, expectations, speculations, theories, conclusions, etc. I do not believe that Dany will win the Iron Throne (a believe I already explained in other posts, and I won’t go into more detail here. This is already long enough), I actually believe her to take an antagonistic role at some point before the finale (I will refer you to the grrm approved “Untying the meereenese knot” essays, or anything on my blog tagged as dark!dany. But be warned: there’s probably an equal amount of warranted critique and salty wank in there.) I obviously believe Jonsa to be a thing by the end of the series (again there are many, many posts and metas on why I believe this on my blog), and while I don’t believe that a romance between Dany and Jon would necessarily forecloses the possibility of my ship happening, which means I’m not desperate enough to oppose “the other ship” by all means, it obviously makes me more critical and suspicious. Claiming anything else would be dishonest. But since believing in the ship, or at least seeing it as a foregone conclusion, makes you less critical and suspicious… you know what I’m getting at. There’s no escape from confirmation bias. 

Now, back to the original topic (and this is probably the most biased thing about this entire answer): My biggest argument against this (beside from the one mentioned in point 2) is that Jon has no reason to be in love with her. He certainly has reasons to be attracted to her or intrigued. But I can’t find something that would lead him to develop deeper feelings. 

Other than saving him from a suicide mission he only went on because she wouldn’t help him without proof for either herself or Cersei, Jon hasn’t really seen anything that would endear her to him. She does not leave a good impression at their first meeting, she later basically makes him her prisoner, refuses to form an alliance on any other basis than him bending the knee (in contrast to the one she formed with Asha and Theon), he does not seem too happy about her decision to use her dragons (even if she burned an army instead of a city) and as I already mentioned in my political Jon posts, her prioritizing her position in the south over the survival of his people should not exactly make him like her better either. It should be really hard for her to redeem herself for all this in Jon’s eyes, especially to the point where he develops genuine romantic feelings for her. 

Some people will argue that saving his life north of the wall was enough, I would argue that since she’s the main reason he even had to put himself in such danger in the first place … it wouldn’t be. So that’s something we could argue about to no end. He says that she has “a good heart”, but we never see Jon witness anything that would bring him to this conclusion. Missandei compliments Dany and tells Jon that “she is the queen we chose”… when Dany is demanding he bends the knee to her … even though his people chose HIM …and not her. He even questions Danys goodness of heart in this very conversation when asking Missandei whether she truly believes that Dany would allow her to leave. 

I don’t think that Dany’s wish to be “extraordinary”, her lamenting the confinement and subsequent demise of dragons because it changed her family into “being just like everyone else” after listening to Jorah explaining what makes dragons so dangerous they had to be locked away in the first place, is something that Jon could relate to or appreciate or find particularly attractive. To me, his response “you’re not like everybody else”, sounds like him simply telling her what she wants to hear. Not like him expressing his own thoughts. And despite what some people think Jon is really observant and knows what buttons to push: 

Guest right or no, Jon Snow knew he walked on rotten ice here. One false step and he might plunge through, into water cold enough to stop his heart. Weigh every word before you speak it, he told himself. He took a long draught of mead to buy time for his answer. When he set the horn aside he said, “Tell me why you turned your cloak, and I’ll tell you why I turned mine.”

Mance Rayder smiled, as Jon had hoped he would. The king was plainly a man who liked the sound of his own voice. “You will have heard stories of my desertion, I have no doubt.“ 

ASOS, Jon I

He has appealed to this certain characteristic before, when Dany asks for his opinion on the beach: “The people who follow you know that you made something impossible happen….”. Btw, I don’t think that Dany lashing out against her advisors left a particularly good impression either…. Not that Dany didn’t have a reason to be upset, but despite just coming from their “romantic” cave scene (romantic in lightning, setting, score and some facial expressions. Not so romantic when you think about the topic they talked about… but that’s another issue. Let’s just note this one as a bonding moment), the first real bonding moment between them this is his reaction when Dany tells to him to stay during their little war council: 

I don’t know, this doesn’t look like repressed romantic feelings to me. (I actually managed to add both a book quote and a gif.sry about the shitty quality, I made this rather quickly.) 

And even if Jon was simply hiding his true feelings, the show could have easily done a better job at showing this. Most notably when he leaves Dragonstone to go beyond the Wall. When Dany is taking another step to close the gap between them and he doesn’t react. When Jorah turns around to take a last look at the woman he loves, only emphasizing the fact that Jon doesn’t. The show could have easily written in a scene to make Jon calling her “Dany” in ep6 more plausible. To make this sudden shift from “I wish you good fortunes in the wars to come your grace” less … random. A scene where she offers to converse on a first-name basis, but he declines because “it wouldn’t be appropriate”, for example. Something to stress that he is fighting against these feelings. They could have written in a scene of Jon sharing something before the dragonpit meeting at the beginning of ep7, after the first time he appears to reciprocate her feelings on the boat, or even at some point between the dragonpit meeting and their journey back north. If this was the grand love story of the series I’m sure they could have sacrificed 1 or 2 minutes of screentime to give them some proper, mutual bonding time before doing the deed. Why not replace the group discussion with both of them having a private conversation about their journey north? They could have discussed the same issues. Instead Jon gets another one-one-one scene with Theon, where they talked about their shared daddy issues. (… btw, Jon saying that he isn’t always as good as it seems … it’s just…) Instead we get Jorah worrying about Dany’s safety, while Jon cares more about how her arrival should look like to the north. Then of course there is the issue about how their sex-scene was filmed (no first kiss, no undressing, etc.), but I’m going to leave this discussion for another time. Other people have already talked about this as well. 

Now of course all of this is open to interpretation and different people will have vastly different views on this. This is just my own. I simply can’t refute the possibility of Jon denying his feelings because of that. But in my opinion there are still so many things that don’t add up. For me, there are simply one too many indications for Jon lying about or exaggerating his feelings (though… he never actually said anything about them) and too many missed opportunities to establish an actual romance. 

Also, this doesn’t fit into Jon’s theme of learning from his predecessors mistakes. Robb did the same thing, “betraying” his people by giving in to love (at least on the show. Something that was brought up again in s6 for no reason by lord glover … though D&D might just love to use the word “whore”, who knows?). If we consider Jon to be the final big “hero” of this story he should learn a lesson from every “hero” that came before him. Now, if he had decided to love her by the end of the season, while still refusing to “betray” his people and their trust by bending the knee it would be a different story entirely. 

I will leave it at that. I’m not sure most of this even makes sense and I let my mind run free about this little innocent question for long enough.