#rhaenyra is queen and still ALWAYS men will undermine and try to manipulate her to get their way.

[redding]

ppl mad as hell abt this ep CANNOT be me!!!! helaena & alicent each being the only person to be able to comfort each other bc they are trapped in the same cage team black dysfunctional as fuck daemon suffering rhaenyra loving her kids emma d'arcys cheekbones in the septa outfit baela and rhaena screentime gwayne hightower hating criston cole RHAENICENT REUNION. everyone is DOOMED im having a fucking blast

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

"https://www.tumblr.com/tbos-main/738719535451013120/for-the-scene-you-posted-that-is-from-the-other?source=share"

"I don't dislike Rhaenyra, I really don't. But it is BAFFLING to me that her struggles are 'I'm just a princess, I'm not even queen :(((( My life SUCKS :((('

Alicent's fans have the most mediocre opinions about Rhaenyra because they are only capable of victimizing Alicent. Also, during episode 7, when the eye incident occurs, Alicent and Rhaenyra haven't been friends for over 9 years. Alicent's only actions after the time jump are to pick on Rhaenyra and her children. Why should Rhaenyra care about Alicent? Alicent's speech in that episode is pure hypocrisy; she had already let Larys get away with murdering two people and stayed silent because it benefited her. Justice and duty can be forgotten as long as it benefits Alicent.

Alicent is also not the eternal victim that OP believes she is..

People who think Rhaenyra's struggles are "but I wanna be queen :(" really don't have good media comprehension. If we look at everyone else in HOTD the same way op is looking at Rhaenyra, then literally all of their struggles are "but I want that privilege!"

Rhaenys and Corlys want the throne or their blood to be on the throne. Viserys wants to be able to chill in his room with his figurines with no responsibility. Daemon wants to be Hand, the heir, or the prince consort. Alicent wants to chill with privilege and no responsibility at first, then wants her blood to be on the throne. Aegon wants to be prince with no responsibility or consequences. Helaena wants to chill alone with bugs and her kids. Aemond wants to be king.

Literally every person in this show wants to stay privileged but on their terms. That's not actually their issues and struggles, but if we're dumbing down Rhaenyra's story, everyone gets dumbed down too.

Rhaenyra has been demeaned and treated as less than because of her gender her entire life. She was forced into a marriage with a gay man who couldn't give her children while a majority of her worth still lay in her ability to give birth. Viserys never actually went out of his way to support her until his literal last day, he does the bare minimum to protect her or her children in court. She was abused by Alicent for a decade at least until she was driven from the capital. She was usurped, her children murdered, and was murdered by her brother. She is so much more than wanting to be queen, TG stans just hate to see that.

As for Alicent, she only cares about "duty and sacrifice" when it benefits her and/or her family. She clings to the morals of the Seven until it's her faction going against them. She's obsessed with her and Rhaenyra's former friendship until she can use it to try guilting/manipulating Rhaenyra.

In Driftmark, Rhaenyra was right on about Alicent. Alicent has been far from the saint her fans view her as and far from the martyr she thinks she herself is. She has abused Rhaenyra and supported Larys, allowed Aegon's bullying of Aemond and Criston's of the Velaryon boys.

Alicent should be asking herself where duty is and asking her faction where their sacrifice is. Rhaenyra has done her duty, she married who her father told her, she had children to be her heirs and Laenor claimed as his own as well (even though she had a lot of trauma surrounding childbirth). She has served on the small council despite how the men on the council don't respect her and Alicent constantly undermines her. Rhaenyra's only crime is refusing to sacrifice herself to serve the men around her.

Op purposefully twisting the events of the show to support their view that Alicent "always defended Rhaenyra" and "only did what she was told" is so frustrating. That view deliberately ignores that Alicent stopped defending Rhaenyra in episode five, the same episode where she chose to declare war on Rhaenyra. The ten year gap was her acting entirely independently from Otto. It also ignores how Alicent raised her children to hate Rhaenyra and her children, that's not defending Rhaenyra or doing what she's told, since Alicent had the most control over her children's lives.

Alicent isn't a perpetual victim, she's victimized by the patriarchy (show only), but quickly becomes a perpetrator of abuse and a constant supporter of the patriarchy. She sacrifices her own daughter in the name of Aegon's ascension. She hates Rhaenyra for not bending to the men around her and punishes her for it. Alicent benefits from bending to the patriarchy by second half of the season, and doesn't stop until she causes the Dance. She may work for the betterment of the men around her, but she does it of her own freewill after marrying Viserys.

[horizon-verizon]

What do you think Rhaenyra (book) should/could have done to foresee/thwart the usurpation of the Greens before it happened? (Many say she didn't do anything and that makes her a bad politician, but was it so crazy that she expected the lords to keep their oaths to the crown like some blame her for? I Don't think so. Your opinion on that?)

DISCLAIMER: I do not say she is at fault for the greens' treachery.

A)

Yes, she could have done a bit more, we always could do something. but I do not think that it's entirely fair to disparage her for being plotted against, attacked, etc. more than male rulers who have faced similar and didn't "plan". I'm talking about Maegor (his too-ruthlessness), Aegon the Uncrowned & Aenys (there were many signs Maegor wanted the throne), Aegon II (his poisoning), etc.

Yes, I still have some ideas, but most are quickly undermined by other circumstances:

have the spies (if they were there -- if not, put them there, and how do we know she/Daemon didn't?) and others she and/or Daemon already send in thwart Alicent's arrangements for the aftermath of Viserys' death (which she implements before the green council convenes after his death) and/or have those people give evidence and expose Alicent what she did and publicly reveal how sus Alicent was behaving before Viserys dies [this requires a stay at KL with her kids bc she can't leave Dragonstone without her direction for long and expect its people to be as loyal to her the same as if she were there]

separate Otto from Alicent much sooner [eh, so so, Alicent still has power without him and Rhaenyra was REALLY young, abt 10, when Otto was first dismissed...so...]

use some emotional manipulation on Viserys to keep Otto away and turn him against Alicent in other sublter ways, etc. [again, youth, and not even Elizabeth I could have been perfect at that with her own father, Henry VIII...it's a lot to ask of a daughter for her father]

As for "should", how do we know she didn't and it didn't work out for long? Remember, this book is written by a man who is not only a maester, wasn't there amongst these key players, is writing years after the actual event, he's also trying to re-establish how female rulers are not a good thing for Westeros, i.e., women with similar privileges and authority and agency as men will only be to the detriment of Westeros/the current "correct" social feudal order. He could have missed information he thought wasn't important or ignored others that don't fit into this narrative. The Citadel has thousands of tomes, papers, etc.!

I also dislike this argument that she was a bad politician and we should leave it at that because it doesn't take into account that:

she was listening and present at councils with Viserys since she was 8 at least; first as his exclusive cupbearer, so even though she wasn't always at council during this time, she would have been there and we don't know how long or short Viserys allowed her to stay (in bk, she only served him, not the rest of the members...so HotD is also on my list for that)-- then as just someone on the council

she shows herself to be a good leader through her ruling of Dragonstone for almost 20 years, having such a capable maester in Gerardys, etc. So she's experienced in ruling in ways Aegon never ever was!

Alicent had a lot of support (Larys Strong, her own father and his position, the Hightowers and the whole of Oldtown, patriarchy) for a very long time. Since Rhaenyra was a small child

not everyone is good at the "turning people against the other" or high grades of very subtle social/emotional manipulation. Visenya seemed to often bother, but she is never described as "stupid" or incapable. Her threat to the Arryn Queen doesn't count bc it wasn't subtle or a court manipulation, nor a subtle deception. Just because you're not good at it or willfully don't do it often enough, doesn't mean you should be removed from the position, deserved to be killed for it, be told you are a whore or at least undeserving, be accused of trying to upend the entire social order of "males first" -- because you didn't perform this one particular thing, your entire "portfolio" is trash?

Aegon is not scrutinized for "qualifications" and if we're really going to be a society where everything is decided by birthright and vows and "honor"/obedience to authority, why are the goalposts moved when Rhaenyra shows up? because she is a woman -- this isn't a capitalist society where you apply for jobs, this is a feudalist one AND even if you could "apply", Aegon has less/no "credentials" of actual rule while Rhaenyra has plenty

And we don't know where Alicent may have had more of Viserys war at moments, where Rhaenyra did, and what reasoning or lack thereof he himself used to blind himself to Alicent's bullshit.

B)

And those who disliked or found fault in her ruling or politicking at Dragonstone did so because have was a woman, and/or they lost something/someone at one point in her deliberations, were envious, were looking for more economic or political benefits, felt passed over for what they thought they deserved, of course some felt boys over girls should succeed in lines of succession, etc. ["Rhaenyra Overthrown"]:

On the note about people lost during the Sowing...people volunteered for that, so...

Moreover, Rhaenyra is proclaimed heir. IF we are actually supposed to follow and not question the customs of the territory here (as some try to argue), Alicent is more at fault for disobeying the king's enduring choice and choice of heir. The one who did more and have to do more to even get one over Rhaenyra.

Rather, Alicent, on her side and by herself, acted dumbly by antagonizing Rhaenyra at all when she did not really know Rhaenyra's capabilities--whether Rhaenyra is faking any sort of "naivete", etc. Rhaenyra could have been a lot crueler. She puts her kids and herself at risk by making their relations with Rhaenyra colder and more antagonistic than they would have been already by teaching her sons to go against Rhaenyra -- Rhaenyra could have have had her sons exiled, ruined Helaena's reputations, etc.

[mesillusionssousecstasy]

HOTD 1x04: Rhaenyra and Daemon - part. II

I don’t want to disappoint you, but some of you have this idealistic picture of Daemon during episode 4. 

For me, Daemon was not in love with Rhaenyra, it may have been lust at best. 

This Vox’s article titled “Sex is always political” explains it very well:  https://www.vox.com/culture/2022/9/11/23343274/house-of-the-dragon-episode-4-recap-review-spoilers-rhaenyra-daemon

This can be highlight:

“This time, Daemon takes her to a brothel. There, he reveals to her scads of writhing permutations of lovers; this, he explains, is where people come to “take what they want.” Taken at face value, he wants to reassure her that she can fulfill her obligation to marry but still sleep with whoever she wants — but we know better than that by now, don’t we? They make out for the first time, with Daemon pushing her against a wall and partially stripping her. Things proceed until Daemon, apparently having a momentary spasm of conscience about wanting to have sex with a) a teenager b) his underage niece c) who he’s been grooming since childhood and d) shamelessly using as a power grab, stops himself and, with an enigmatic smile, vanishes to get completely wasted.

On the surface, this scene looks like a sort of sexual freedom; in the annals of storytelling, a teen’s first trip to a brothel, often involving their first encounter with an experienced older partner, typically gets framed as a magical coming-of-age moment. Here it’s intense but hardly revelatory: The scene’s direction is claustrophobic, nearly too dark to see at some points, filmed against a backdrop of primal drums and crazed strings. And crucially, it’s juxtaposed against a grotesque counterpart sex scene in which King Viserys (Paddy Considine) shows us what marital rape looks like, as his wife Alicent (Emily Carey) lies passively beneath him, trying to disassociate from the experience.

(...)

Both Alicent and Rhaenyra have been manipulated by the men around them their entire lives; Alicent understands her own situation all too well, but so far has had no opportunity to resist or act outside of her predetermined role as queen. The king, when he’s not using her for sex and childbearing, openly undermines Alicent — a casual slight that becomes much greater when you’re essentially a sexual prisoner who has to behave as though you aren’t. Neither situation allows for real consent, and while Alicent’s miserable marital rape is much clearer, Daemon’s near-seduction of Rhaenyra is equally about power and control.”

[i-am-mldy]

Slowly losing it. I've never felt more alive.

ppl mad as hell abt this ep CANNOT be me!!!! helaena & alicent each being the only person to be able to comfort each other bc they are trapped in the same cage team black dysfunctional as fuck daemon suffering rhaenyra loving her kids emma d'arcys cheekbones in the septa outfit baela and rhaena screentime gwayne hightower hating criston cole RHAENICENT REUNION. everyone is DOOMED im having a fucking blast