#remember when Jason only called Tim the replacement?

[iexistiguessss]

And it was Tim’s throat lol

Duke training with Jason

Jason: You gotta be prepared, working with Batman is dangerous. Some maniac could take a knife to your throat- I would know.

Duke: Someone took a knife to your throat?

Jason: No, I was the maniac.

[celaenaeiln]

Hiii, how are you? I’m new in the Batman fandom, but i saw a lot of people saying that Jason is actually Batman’s favorite child, and when i was reading the comics, i really though that Dick is Bruce absolute favorite, but i saw a lot of posts here on tumblr of the fandom saying is actually Jason and that the batkids all know its Jason, but i don’t know what is canon and what is fanon (quite honestly when it comes about the batfam i don’t like a lot about the fanon version 😭), so i wanted to ask you about it

And sorry if i said something wrong, english is not my first language

Hi and no worries at all!!

Yeah, canonically Dick is Bruce's favorite by a LONG shot and canonically the batkids all know this.

Infinite Crisis Issue #3

It's says right here in the comics. Really explicitly. But not only that, time and time again, there is clear evidence of Bruce's preferential treatment of Dick over the rest of the batkids.

One time the batboys and Bruce are searching for a guy that kinda is using the Gotham criminals as his subjects. So what they decide to do is split up to narrow him down.

Detective Comics (2016) Issue #1057

But they run into issues because the villains chose a 'divide and conquer strategy"

Detective Comics (2016) Issue #1057

Bruce gets swept away! Because of a carefully planned trap. But do you what he does the second he wakes up?

Detective Comics (2016) Issue #1058

JDAKFA;BFJALEC

BRUCE LITERALLY WENT: "I love Dick and all the other not-Dicks equally" !!!!!

As if that's not enough, Bruce's biggest fear is that he's not good enough for Dick.

Bruce's fear about Dick-

Batman vs Robin Issue #3

because he believes this -

vs

Bruce's fear about Jason -

Batman vs Robin Issue #3

because he believed he failed to do this -

Batman: Hush

Reminder: Joe Chill is Martha and Thomas Wayne's killer. Enough said.

If you want to be even more explicit about Bruce's preference for Dick over Jason it can't be clearer than here:

Bruce reflects on Jason's Robin tenure -

Batman (1940) Issue #428

Something a lot of people don't know/refuse to acknowledge is that Jason canonically did have anger issues. There aren't a lot of parallels between Jason and Dick but one particular thing that DC points out is that Jason and Dick both lost their beloved fathers. The difference is that Dick was able to move on and become cheerful even if he didn't get revenge. Jason wasn't able to get over the loss of his father and became angry. UTRH makes a specific point of talking about this too.

Batman (1940) Issue #645 "He knew that Jason Todd was NOT Dick Grayson."

Do you remember why Jason became Robin?

Batman (1940) Issue #416

Bruce wanted Dick. He took in Jason in replacement for Dick. But Jason was not Dick and even on the day he died, all Bruce could think of was that taking in Jason was a mistake.

The batkids are well aware of this. Damian actually calls Jason Bruce's mistake too when he's recounting the story of the robins.

Here's what he says -

Batman (1940) Issue #713

That's Damian's retelling. Tim's is even worse -

A Lonely Place of Dying

Ouch.

Truthfully Jason is like Bruce's 4th favorite. In order of how much Bruce loves his kids it goes:

Dick

Damian

Cass

Jason/Tim (tie)

Tim/Jason (tie)

Steph

I think there's so much confusion about Jason supposedly being the favorite because Bruce grieved over Jason's that but I think a lot of people are conflating grief and self-blame with love. There have been two significant deaths in the family: Jason and Damian. If you look at how Bruce reacted in each aftermath, it becomes clear that he loves Damian more than he loved Jason.

After Jason's death:

Batman (1940) Issue #429

Batman (1940) Issue #431

After Damian's death:

Batman and Robin (2011) Issue #21

Batman and Robin (2011) Issue #20

He would forcefully make Jason relive the worst day of his life so that his other son could enjoy his.

Bruce's behavior after Jason's death was self-destructive and isolative but his behavior after Damian's death was to beat bloodly every single criminal. His reasoning for beating Dick after Jason's death was "Jason was your replacement. If you hadn't left I wouldn't have had to take him in and he wouldn't have died." His reason for beating Jason after Damian's death was "Your trauma matters so little to mean that all I want is Damian to live again and I couldn't care less about how you feel."

In summary, Jason wasn't Bruce's favorite either as Robin or as an adult. But even if it's not Dick, claiming that Jason is the favorite is so far off that no one is DC would remotely believe it. You would think there would be more analysis on Damian's death in comparison to Jason's because they were two big official deaths but I guess not for some reason. I ran out of image space but yeah there's more than just this overall. This isn't to say that Bruce doesn't love Jason. NO! He very much loves him. But he just doesn't love him the most.

On a different note - coming from someone who went from TT show to YJ to fanfic AND THEN reading comics, I've had relearn a lot about each of the characters. But for people still in the process of transitioning from fanfic to comics or just in the fanfic stage, general rule of thumb when it comes to batfamily content - NEVER trust what people say if they don't provide the evidence for it. People in this fandom are so wild that they'll have you believing the earth is the center of the universe, that you'll fall off the world if you go too far left or right, and that pigs can fly.

[jinjeriffic]

DCxDP Prophecy Universe Part 3

Part 2

Tim reached up to rub at his temples and groaned. This was getting him nowhere. Normally he enjoyed going down the research rabbit-hole but this was ridiculous! Paranormal sciences were a bad joke. Most of it was conjecture, hearsay and unprovable theories with just enough scientific sounding jargon peppered in to confuse a layperson. Peer-review was practically non-existent, not to mention a proper scientific method. Francis Bacon would be rolling in his grave!

The slight hiss of the elevator doors opening interrupted his thoughts.

“Hey Replacement, you missed dinner!” Jason called, sauntering over with a loaded plate in hand. He set down a sandwich next to Tim’s elbow. “Alfie says he’s cutting off your coffee supply until you get some damn sleep. I’m pretty sure he’s gonna start prepping the knock-out gas soon!” he quipped, leaning his hip against the Batcomputer’s console. “Research on the League giving you trouble?”

“I wish.” Tim sighed, reaching for the sandwich, “The Assassins have actually been pretty quiet recently. I found some leads on suspicious political donations in Italy, but nothing I can tie to them directly. Talia��s in Paris as far as I can tell, working at an investment firm for God knows what reason. Probably money laundering related. And the ones holed up in Nanda Parbat have been quiet as murderous little church mice.”

“Ra’s isn’t up to anything? Colour me shocked.” Jason drawled sardonically, “You sure he’s not cooking up a new batch of demon spawn in that mountain of his?”

Tim shook his head. “You know Bruce destroyed his cloning labs after the last… incident. And I’ve found no records of the League procuring the necessary materials or equipment to restart production.” he wrinkled his nose, “Of course it’s possible that they used a shell company we haven’t come across yet, but I believe the odds are pretty low.”

“So what’s got your panties in a bunch then?”

Tim’s mouth twisted in a frown. “Ghosts.”

“Ah.”

Jason stared off into space and Tim took a bite of his sandwich. Egg-salad, score! The Cave was silent for a while, only disturbed by the noise of the actual bats heading out for their nightly hunt.

“I can’t tell you for sure if ghosts are real or not. I don’t remember anything from when I was… dead.” Jason said haltingly, and Tim stilled. “But we’ve seen people come back under pretty weird circumstances. So why not ghosts?” Jason shrugged.

Tim chewed and swallowed before replying. “Because it’s one thing for the physical body to be restored, but some kind of nebulous ‘spirit’ lingering? Why don’t we see ghosts all the time then? Why don’t people come back? Why not…” Tim broke off.

“Your Dad?”

Tim nodded and dropped the remains of the sandwich back on the plate. It suddenly looked as appetising as cardboard.

“I don’t know, birdie. We still don’t know why I came back.” Jason snorted “Maybe the universe just has a sick sense of humour.”

Tim’s lips curled up in a mirthless smile. “Maybe the universe missed your terrible puns. Some of those still haunt me.”

Jason barked out a surprised laugh. “That was terrible!”

“The universe clearly made a grave mistake.”

“Stop it, I can feel my brain cells dying!” Jason groaned and gave Tim a light punch to the shoulder.

“Well we can’t have that, you have so few already!” Tim snarked, then quickly leaned to the side to evade Jason’s attempted noogie. Jason huffed and stepped back, crossing his arms.

“All right mister teenage genius. What have you dug up about ghosts then?”

Tim rolled his eyes. “There’s obviously tons of folklore from all over the world. Pretty much every mythology has stories about the spirits or souls of the dead returning to haunt the living. But if there’s a scientific basis to all this then it’s like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Even the supposed leaders in the field are hopelessly biased.” He pulled up some documents on the screen. “Take these for example. The Doctors Fenton are supposed experts in the field of ‘Ecto-Biology’ as they call it, but their research papers would never fly with a proper scientific journal. A lot of it comes across as blatantly xenophobic towards the entities they are supposedly studying and their research methods seem geared towards confirming what they view as foregone conclusions. And most of their peers operate on the same track.”

Jason hummed thoughtfully as he skimmed one of the articles in question. “Do you think there’s anything to this, or is it all just a hoax?”

Tim snorted. “If there is, they haven’t offered any conclusive proof. Though they certainly seem to have made it work for them. The Fentons have a series of patents for weapons and defenses against these supposed ‘ecto-entities’ and it looks like there’s plenty of people gullible enough to buy them. I haven’t taken a closer look at their products yet, but a lot of it looks like something out of a pulp sci-fi movie.” He pulled up the image of what looked like a bazooka with green glowing parts. Jason whistled.

“So, con artists or mad scientists?”

“Could be both. Their financial records are all over the place and they’ve had some large transactions with what I’m pretty sure are shell companies in recent years. They live and operate out of a small city in Illinois.” Tim said, pulling up the relevant documents on screen.

“Amity Park?” Jason read aloud.

“Supposedly it’s ‘The Most Haunted City in America’. Seems on brand, doesn’t it?”

“It probably helps them stay in business. It looks like they have kids?” Jason pointed at the tax returns. Tim typed some search queries into the system.

“Two. One in high school, one just started her first semester at Metropolis University. With a full scholarship to boot.” He spent a few more minutes hacking into the university’s systems. “Here we go, Jasmine Fenton. Looks like she’s going for a psychology degree. And… hm…” Tim trailed off. Jason quickly realised what had caught his attention.

“‘The Damaging Effects of Envy Towards Metahumans? That’s a hell of a topic for a freshman-year essay.” Jason remarked.

“Yes. I wonder…” Tim drummed his fingers on the keyboard. “She might have some insight into her parents’ research.”

“And at a cursory glance, she didn’t drink whatever Kool-Aid her parents were serving.” Jason finished for him. “You wanna go pump her for information?”

“I might as well. If nothing else, maybe we can shut down a couple of mad scientists before they become a problem.” Tim stood up and stretched. “Time for a field trip!”

Part 4

[cristinacclearwater]

Robin Time Travel AU!!

A fic where Dick or Damian or Jason or all three time-traveled and stop Ethiopia from happening... Only they didn't anticipate the consequences.

With no Ethiopia happening, Jason never dies and neither does Bruce go off the rails... Thus never giving Tim a reason to join the Batfam...

Dick never saw nor tried to find out exactly how bad Bruce got after Jason... And was waiting for Tim to find him again... Even going to Harley's where they met... Keeping the entire schedule for the week very simple for Tiny Tim to easily follow... Only Tim never shows up...

Jason does not know the circumstances of Tim joining and is wondering when Bruce is bringing Timbo home...

While Damian convinced Talia that it is better for him to join his father in Gotham... By 'investigating' and 'arriving' at the 'conclusion' that his father is Batman... Thus he comes to Gotham early... Like months before Tim... Like he coincided with the week Jason would have died...

Again, he does not know the circumstances of Tim joining... Just knowing that this time when he has Robin, it will be on Tim's terms... He is looking forward to a good relationship with him because Dick said Tim always wanted a little brother and now Damian has the chance to be that little brother... No, he is not jealous of YJ or how close they are with Tim, or that bloody speedster... What are you saying!?!!!

Tim never comes.

Now, Tim on the other hand decided to explore Paris and gets caught in shenanigans... Meets Lady Shiva... Gets mentored by Lady Shiva... Unknowingly insults Snake... Gets challenged by Snake... Defeats Snake... Refuses Lady Shiva's offer... And comes back to Gotham... Only this trip was a year or 9-10 months long...

In Gotham, he takes up the cape... Works smaller crimes, nothing with rogues (like Spider-Man) and becomes beloved... Of course, Tim is still that little stalker at heart and keeps updating the Bat's info... he doesn't want to be burdensome to them, Thus, Tim makes sure Bats and him don't cross paths... After all, Batman might feel obligated to take him in as he did Batgirl, Spoiler, and Black Bat... They didn't have training. He does...

Meanwhile, Batfam is wondering where they went wrong and missed Tim... And slowly Dick starts remembering the context as to why Tim sought him out... Not to be Robin but to make him take Robin back up... And when Dick refused to... Then Tim took up the job of keeping Batman in line... Because Gotham needs Batman and Batman needs a Robin...

Dick tells Jason and Damian... They don't believe... Because of course, my info is not wrong... He was replacing me/was an interloper... It takes them that entire year to accept that Tim is not coming... Then scrambling to find him... Then they started hearing rumors... Of this little vigilante who helps with small crimes... And try to intercept him, maybe introduce themselves, to no avail... It was as if Gotham herself was against it, they always missed him...

Meanwhile, Tim's life continues pretty much same as in earlier comics... Batfam, out of the city, Metallo attacks Gotham... Tim calls Superboy... Thus, the first meeting of TimKon, same as comics. Only, instead of Tim, he travels as Alvin Draper, a child who was helped into his seat by his parents and will be picked up by his cousin Shanks at the airport... Actors he hires to help him... And "will you please watch him, we are so scared he will be traveling alone"... The story works for both going and then returning and Cousin Shanks helps Alvin back onto the plane when needed...

School trip for Bart and I do not believe much will change with Bart as he will know Tim's rep from the future, rather than the past, so Bart still believes Tim's awesome... And makes friends...

They still start Young Just Us... And still go on every mission they did in YJ98... Tim still develops a rapport with Batman... Only he is not his Robin or known as his prodigy... Compared to when Batman taught him everything and knew him well, lying to Batman was quite easy for Tim... Because Tim grew up in Gotham society and was his mother's son through and through...

Tim's parents are not bad in this either... Like can Janet put the fear of god in businessmen? YES... But when it came to family and especially Tim, she was soft... I see Tim's relationship with his parents same as Kudo Shinichi's from Detective Conan... Like they have wanderlust and Tim does not... But just because they are not in the same country or continent, does not mean they do not keep in contact... They know exactly what shenanigans Tim gets up to and know better than to stop him because otherwise, he will just hide them... They know all his friends, his interests, etc... Especially his mom, and hiding about Robin probably hurt their relationship a lot...

{I 100% believe the only reason Tim didn't tell Jack he was a vigilante was because he was Robin and thus was responsible for the entire Batfam identities... And that is why Jack believed Tim did not choose but rather was coerced into being Robin because otherwise they would already know...}

So, in this fic, Tim keeps his parents in the loop from the beginning and Janet makes sure a part of DI is dedicated to helping Tim, so he's never without help in Gotham... Also, they know life is dangerous so they get separate mobile/communicators for "just emergencies", like a "Need help! Will die if not given" button... So Tim knew the moment his parents were taken by Obama Man and rescued them with Young Just Us...

Because NO BATMAN RULES thus Tim was able to tell his parents and team his identity much earlier than in canon... He still makes contingencies for fellow heroes, especially Justice League, including the entire Batfam, including Alfred... Because Janet Drake's son is taught better by her mamma... And Tim does not know Wayne beyond being a fanboy and does not have an emotional connection to them...

Just a fic where Batfam lives happily and Tim is successful but they never have more than a coworker relationship... Like Tim is closer to Wally or Donna or Roy or Bisaro or Jon than Dick, Jason, and Damian because they have a familial connection to his team, while Batfam only has the connection of Gotham... Like Oracle has the most influence over Tim's actions in his vigilant life because she sometimes directs him to crime if no one else is available...

Tim is still friends with Stephanie but here Tim's self-respect and confidence are not broken again and again and again... So Stephanie does not get away with treating him like shit on or off the field and that's dangerous on the field, so they mutually decided to not team up unless with a mediator in between that could lead both...

Off-field they are good friends, friends who know their secret life so they can share any grievance, WITHOUT endangering any identities, etc... But they do not date... Tim dates Ariana, yes. And felt Stephanie might be a rebound and knew she deserved better than that. If Stephanie confesses, Tim makes it clear he is not in a position to date yet (don't know if the timeline is right, if not feel free to correct)...

{OK, one thing I make clear, No hate for the character of Stephanie Brown but I just hate how she treats Tim in Canon and everyone acts like it's OK because it's not. It's fucked up and a toxic relationship. Especially how Bruce used their relationship later and Stephanie agrees)...

Tim also seeks mental help for the school shooting and other civilian events, while Jack is looking for a trusted therapist for his son, Janet absolutely approves... When they have one, Tim gets a contract of confidentiality from John Constantine to sign for the therapist and drags his team, kicking and screaming with him...

With the team being introduced to the Drakes early, they spent a lot of time in Gotham, and adults (Janet) understand what is happening with Ross, Tana, etc. And helps Kon before telling him to stay with Tim, "because that boy absolutely cannot take care of himself, never mind he has done so for years, you stay with him, do you want to go to Gotham Academy or do you like your current one"... While Jack is ready to smack some sense into Flashes, with his golf stick... And becomes quite good friends with Max...

Just competent adults who understand they can't stop their wild child but can and will give him every tool to survive.

[homosexualworkaccount]

Jason Todd’s “Replacement” nickname for Tim Drake, Origins and Popularisation

So, making a 2500-word essay on how a fanon nickname that only me and like two other people care about is not how I expected to spend my time in between exams.

A lot of Batfam fans are very, very much aware of the fanon “Replacement” nickname Jason has for Tim, and a lot of us very, very much hate it due to the connotations of fanon characterisation that it has. I don’t personally, I think it’s an alright enough one that fits into the established canon ones – but to be fair, I haven’t read the comics in a hot minute, so my memory could be screwy.

I got curious one day on where the nickname came from when a user on TikTok mentioned that it might’ve originated from a Batfam incest fic (They weren’t too sure and told me to take it with a grain of salt) – so shout out to them for starting me down this rabbit hole! I looked over on here and saw that notion repeated, though no one could pinpoint me to a specific fic beyond “It was popularised from a Batfam incest fic.”. I also saw a few people say that it was derived from canon, which piqued my interest further so I decided to go down a rabbit hole of fandom history purely for some fun.

The aim of this essay is just to clear up some misconceptions around the origin of the name, all fun and no harm. Don’t send harassment to people referenced in this either over a silly nickname, it's been well over a decade since they wrote the works used here.

Preface

Alright, first things first – all sources are going to be ones that were published after August 2005, the official date the first issue of Batman: Under the Red Hood was published, where Jason was established to be alive again.

While there could be a chance that the nickname was derived from a website/fanfiction before 2005, it’s highly unlikely due to the fact it was only popularised in the early 2010’s, and well, because Jason was dead and no one gave a shit about him. Also good to remember that most websites that ran before 2005 are defunct and purged from the internet now, particularly fanfiction websites (such as Quidzillia) due to various issues (taboo, copyright, costs to run ect).

Small note to make again – the Batfam fandom was fairly small at the time, the more fandom-y part of the DC community usually sticking to their own websites like Quotev, Quidzilla (again, defunct now), AO3, Fanfiction.net, LiveJournal and independent websites (again, defunct) while the rest stuck to discussion sites, so the entire fandom functioned more as a insular community from what I could tell. I will be working with the assumption that the nickname was created on one of the larger platforms, as any other platform didn’t have large enough influence to popularise the nickname.

The nicknames that I specifically looked for was simply Jason calling Tim Replacement in place of his actual name. Something like “Replacement Robin” was on very thin ice, but still counted as an offshoot. Anything else was off bets.

This whole thing will be split into a few sections to make some things for myself easier. Preface, Sources, Pre-cursor Fanfiction, Fandom Opinion and Language, First usage, Popularisation, Conclusion, Questions, Final Notes.

Sources

Fanfic.net – Created 1998, was and remains one of the larger fanfiction sites. Note; Fanfiction.net had various periods of time where there were large scale purges of fanfictions that held more mature content. Most notable instances were in 2002 and 2012.

Archive Of Our Own – The holy grail for my research. Created in 2008. For the information I got from there I used the search filter Date Updated, tagged Jason’s and Tim’s individual tags and followed from there.

Live Journal – Created 1999 and was used as one of the larger sites for fandom and fanfiction. Was used by DC fandom goers regularly so I used it to get an idea of the fandom at the time.

Tumblr – Created 2007. Theres various people on here who have compilations on DC timelines and comic sourcing that helped me correlate fandom growth with specific comic releases (Shout out to @ectonurites for their meta posts and timeline posts, they were a major source for this!). Dogshit filtering system, so I couldn’t find posts pre 2012 about DC.

Note; Quotev and Wattpad weren’t used in this as their filtering systems don’t account for searching for older fanfictions, so sadly had to be discarded as most fanfictions between 2006-2010 on those websites are now very difficult to find.

Pre-Cursor FanFiction

So, before we get to the actual first proper use I could find of “Replacement”, I first want to mention a fanfiction that had something very similar that I think would be important purely for archiving reasons around how the nickname came to be. And also because it fits the nickname criteria I mentioned earlier.

Published on the 29th of November 2006, last updated on the 28th of November 2007, was the fanfiction My-Enemy-My-Brother on Fanfiction.net by user theunknownvoice – featuring the first use of Jason referring to Tim with a nickname including replacement, Replacement Robin. Kudos to theunknownvoice, they created the very first nickname that would kickstart the rest.

While Jason doesn’t explicitly refer to Tim as Replacement – the main subject of this essay, it comes very damn close, so I wanted to include it. There is a part where Jason repeats replacement in his head multiple times, and I think he’s supposed to be referring to Tim, but the sentence isn’t very clear on that part, so I won’t count it, but it is important to acknowledge.

Though this isn’t the fanfiction that influenced the development of Replacement. This fic had barely enough reach to influence any future works years later. I couldn’t find any connection with this work and later works that officially did just have Jason call Tim “Replacement”

Fandom Opinion and Language at the time

I promise this is important and that I’m not a pretentious linguistic, English isn’t even my first language.

I like to think we all know how fandom discussion just seeps into fanfiction (See; the nickname green bean for Deku from MHA leaking into fanfiction) so I just want to quickly point this out.

Discussion around the two blew up after Jasons return in late 2005, people going “What does this mean” and “What does that mean for Tim”. Through the few posts I could dig up from this time and up to 2011, it seems people came to the conclusion that Tim was Jason’s replacement, and that their dynamic was Jason dealing with the fact that he had one. You can definitely see that in some of the posts and fanfiction written at the time that usually had Jason dealing with Tim being his replacement.

(Just a few examples from LiveJournal but more like this are still floating around, if they aren’t deleted anyway)

It’s very likely that the authors themselves engaged in similar discussions/had independent thoughts that ended in the same conclusions, seeping into the fanfiction itself later. In the comics pre-New 52 I couldn’t find any major instance of Jason explicitly referring to Tim as his replacement (only implied through speech), so this was mostly contained in fandom discussions from what I can tell. (Note, this was probably similar on comic discussion websites, but I couldn’t find any that still exist pre-2007, so I’m going to assume literacy skills are not any better on those sites. See; Batman dick riders)

The fact that Tim is explicitly described as having replaced Jason, and sometimes as “Being the Replacement” on posts/fanfiction definitely had a hand in the creation and popularisation of the nickname, influencing the fan content made around the two.

First usage of Replacement

Cain! Cain! Is the first use of the nickname Replacement really from a Batfam incest fanfiction?

Nope, thank God.

After filtering their character tags together on AO3, going to the oldest page and clicking through over 10 pages, reading every single fanfiction on each one (yes, even the weird ones, I was dedicated) I found the first instance where Jason explicitly refers to Tim as Replacement, that still exists today anyway.

Published on the 24th of January, 2009 by user shiny_glor_chan, is the fanfiction Four Calling Birds, a fanfiction detailing Stephenie Brown returning from faking her death (a whole headache from the comics that I can't be arsed to explain) and getting to meet Jason and Dick for the first time. Genuinely sweet, and a corner stone of fandom history, officially. Hip hip Hooray! Congratulations shiny_glor_chan.

I tried tracing to see if this person had any other accounts that I could find to see where they got the nickname from, but it seems it’s mostly a nickname they thought up out of the fact that they had consistently wrote Jason explicitly stating that Tim was his replacement

And reading through several more pages of fanfiction again, feeling like I want to bleach my eyes out, I found the second instance of the nickname being used. Published on the 26th of May, 2010 by user axiel-neesan, is the fanfiction The Only Piece You Get, where Jason basically acts as Tim’s cabbie and bonds with him. Another corner stone of fandom history, hooray.

These two authors are completely unrelated and have no connections to each other besides both frequenting LiveJournal, having taken prompts and having friends from that website, despite having no accounts I could find. I personally think they had a similar train of thought of “Huh, that would be a sick ass nickname.”. Chances are that axiel-neesan saw shiny_glor_chans fic and got inspired as the fandom was dead small on AO3 at the time – around 20 pages worth of fanfiction from 2008-2010 (And thats being generous if we’re counting now deleted ones)

These two fanfictions are immensely important because it’s the only early instances I could find of the nickname being used, and for about two years after the nickname pops up occasionally – but by no means was it popular, or even regularly used, I had to look for the fanfictions that used it.

Props to shiny_glor_chan and axiel-neesan! I pray that you two don’t see what the fandom thinks of that nickname now.

Popularisation

Early 2012 saw the proper explosion of fandom for the Batfam, and by extension the nickname.

By this point there were so many fanfictions that I couldn’t read them all, so I started picking random ones that tagged Jason and Tims relationship, platonic or not. Pre-April-ish of 2012 the nickname popped up every other page or so, but sometime after mid-2012 the nickname was in almost every fanfiction that I skimmed through – so that’s its official growth period.

Why though? Several factors probably.

The New-52 was in full swing by this time, DC massively promoting the reboot to get new fans interested, so people picked up comics from there. Young Justice – the more mainstream exposure of DC to surface level fans aired its second season in April of 2012, introducing people to Tim Drake and his story and getting them interested. Fanfiction and fandom as a whole was becoming less taboo and more accepted in fan spaces, so encouragement to write it was much better than it was in the early years of the internet (Example; Teen Wolf’s production team)

As for a specific catalyst for the growth of popularity for the nickname? There might be something worth pointing to.

Kudos for @ectonurites for helping me on this (Hi Sam! I was anon!) and giving me a publishing date on Tim’s and Jason’s first New 52 interaction – Red Hood and the Outlaws #8, published on the 18th of April, 2012. It features an instance of Jason and Tim interacting in a very friendly and familial way, Jason explicitly calling Bruce their Dad. Compared to their last major previous interaction of Jason leaving Tim for dead, fans of the two who enjoyed the more familial potential (and tragically, romantic potential) took it and ran with it.

All of these combined in some way to contribute to the popularity of the nickname in mid to late 2012, and lead to it’s infamy in DC fanfiction.

Conclusion

In conclusion, how do I think the nickname came to be?

I think it’s a combination of factors that led to it’s creation. As already established people very much did see Tim as Jasons replacement at the time, and the language could have shortened down from “Tim replaced Jason” to “Tim is Jason’s replacement” to “Tim is the replacement” which I think could be the train of thought the 2006 author went down to create the nickname Replacement Robin.

This definitely influenced the AO3 writers as shiny_glor_chan was present on LiveJournal at the time (where this language was very prominent), so they were already down the line of thinking this and probably went “Huh, replacement is kinda a funny nickname” and added it. As already stated, I think axiel-neesan probably had a very similar train of thought or may have seen shiny_glor_chan’s fic and was inspired.

And from there people saw it, used it in their own works, getting leaked over onto LiveJournal, which was the main website for prompt sharing, getting used a decent amount there before the explosion of fandom in mid-2012 that lead to it’s regular usage in fan works.

Questions

So, is the nickname from a Batcest fic?

Nope! The nickname mostly makes an appearance in platonic fics between Jason and Tim, it’s actually a chore to find it in their romantic ones, as in I think I found one instance of it being used somewhere in late 2010 but I can't think of it in a fanfiction that predates that. All early uses of the nickname were in platonic fics between the two.

I think this rumour is based around three fanfictions specifically on Ao3 that people are pointing to, I think, no one seems to be wanting to name names. They’re the ones that pop up when you search Replacement in the word search after tagging Tim Drake and Jason Todd together.

Wings to Fly. Published October of 2012. Jason Refers to Tim as Replacement. Jason/Tim

Replacement. Published 2009. The title implies it’s referring to Tim, but Jason never explicitly nicknames Tim replacement, the narrator only calling Tim “His replacement”, him being Jason. Jason/Tim. Non-con

The Replacement. Published 2011. Can't figure out if the title is supposed to refer to Tim or is simply just titled that for the sake of it. Jason talks a few times about Tim being his replacement, but the nickname never makes an appearance. Jason/Tim

Does the nickname have any bases in Canon?

From what I can tell, no. I haven’t read all the Batfamily comics Pre-New 52, or from after Batman: Under The Red Hood, I mostly stray towards Hal Jordans comics lol. I don’t think theres any major instance where Jason talks about Tim replacing him by specifically using replacement or replacing (It can be inferred from his speech sometimes, but Jason’s relationship with Tim was much more complex than that. I’d recommend reading @ectonurites metas about the two to get a better idea) Theres a few instances in 2015 post-New 52 reboot where Jason says explicitly that Tim replaced him, but that was way after the nickname was popularised.

Red Hood and Arsenal #7 (2015)

Final Notes

That’s about it! That’s the result of my month long dive into almost twenty years worth of DC fandom history as a fun side project. Please don’t harass anyone linked here, this was just project to pass the time and not a call out post for anyone that did contribute to the popularisation of the nickname.

Feel free to ask me anything else about this or any other DC fandom history and I’ll try to research it!! This was genuinely a fun thing to do to pass the time and work out my research muscles.

[ravenna-reid]

devotion

Timmy x Reader because I am currently going through Tim Drake brain rot

⊹✧⊹

"Tim?" His name rang through the comm like it was a warning.

"Yeah Nightwing?"

"I think you should come back to the cave. It's kinda urgent."

Tim's footsteps stilled. "What do you mean?"

Dick let out a long sigh. "It's y/n."

In that instant, it was as though someone had replaced Tim's bones with lead. He felt it weigh him down as anxiety began to pulse in his chest.

"What do you mean Dick? What happened?"

Tim already had his cellphone in his hand, but there were no missed calls or messages from you. He knew you had gone out on patrol tonight; Bruce had put you with Dick and Cass, whilst he was forced to go with the bat himself.

Prior to going on patrol, you had given Tim sweet reassurances, and as much as he hated being separated from you, he reluctantly agreed.

His finger had instinctively hooked around your pinkie. "Remember the knuckle busters I gave you." He'd said.

And you had smiled. "Of course."

Now Tim was torturing himself thinking about all of the possible things that could have happened to you on patrol.

"I don't know Tim," Dick continued, "But something happened tonight and she won't talk about it. She's gone mute."

"You better hurry up and get back replacement." Jason chimed in, the sound of the thugs he was beating hitting the ground in the background.

"Shut up Jason." Tim snapped.

Ripping his comm out, he looked over at Bruce, assuming he heard it all. Bruce could tell Tim wasn't going to take no for an answer.

"Go."

⊹✧⊹

Tim basically tore through the cave in search of you, his bo staff and mask disregarded on the ground. He immediately saw Cass sitting on the med bed and Dick standing beside her, arms crossed, and headed for them.

"Where is she?" He asked, voice eager and breathy like he'd just sprinted all the way back to the manor.

Cass glanced over at Dick, and Tim didn't miss the sorrowful look on her face.

"She's upstairs in your room-"

"What happened?" He cut Dick off.

The two exchanged glances, then Cass eyes averted to the floor and Dick's eyes went back to Tim. "The mission was going fine. Y/n was fine. Her usual self; strong, determined, hell she was taking out most of the guys herself." Dick shrugged and ran a hand through his hair. "Then we got separated for a few minutes-"

"What do you mean you got separated?" Tim asked, tone stern and accusatory.

Dick continued on with the story. "Cass and I couldn't find her and when we finally did, she was like a ghost..."

Tim's face was going red with anger and his expression read blame, until Cass grabbed his arm. His eyes shot over to hers. Cass raised her hand and pointed upstairs, and with the nod of his head, Tim agreed and left them without another word.

⊹✧⊹

Tim wanted to practically walk through the door to his room, but instead, he gently opened it so he wouldn't startle you. He had no idea what condition you were in, and that made it agonising. So preparing himself for the worst, he quietly crept through the door.

The room was dark, the only source of light coming from his ensuite light. "Y/n?"

As his eyes adjusted to the darkness, he finally looked over to the windows, and there on the window seat sat you. Staring up at the full moon. A relieved sigh fell from his lips. "Y/n."

You turned to look at him and got to your feet as he quickly rushed over to you.

"Tim." Those were the first words you had spoken in almost two hours.

Tim's hands traced down your arms, seeking any sign of injury, before his eyes skimmed over your torso and neck. Then his hands moved to cradle your face, his gaze searching your eyes for any hint of conflict or pain.

"Y/n, where are you hurt? Are you alright?"

As stupid as it was, shame began creeping up on you. "I'm ok Tim, I promise." You grabbed hold of his hands and pulled them away from your face. "Dick contacted you, didn't he?" You faked a smile.

Your not so subtle action caught Tim completely off guard as he stared back at you. It was hard to read you in the dark with only the moon and distant light aiding him, but that didn't stop him from trying.

"Yeah, y/n are you sure you're ok?"

You took a small step back. "Yeah, I promise it was nothing. I'm fine." You tried hard to mask everything with that smile of yours, but it made Tim even more uneasy. He'd thought something physically happened to you. That you were injured. Bruised and bleeding. But now he knew the hurt you were experiencing was running a lot deeper.

You took a sharp breath in. "How was patrol?"

Your voice wavered, and that coil of anxiety was beginning in Tim's chest all over again.

"Y/n..." His finger hooked your pinkie, a small habit of his. He took a step forward to close the space between you, and with the window seat behind you, you had nowhere to go. "Come on, what happened during patrol?"

You let out a deep breath, your head swimming with thoughts. "It's just, I don't know. We ended up getting separated tonight...and when I ..."

No. You instantly cut yourself short and berated yourself. A habit you had developed over the years whenever you were about to talk about how you felt. A fearful expression painted your face and it pained Tim to see it.

"Honestly, it was nothing, I swear." You waved your hand through the air. "This stuff happens on patrol Tim. We've all been through it." You shrugged, trying to brush it off. But your eyes were wide and alert and you were oh so slightly trembling.

Tim rested his hands on your elbows now, tilting his head to catch your gaze as you turned your head from him. "Y/n, something reminded you of the incident tonight, didn't it?" He asked, voice so low and understanding. His thumb stroking your arm.

You bit your lip. "Yeah, but it's fine. The past is the past." You were trying awfully hard to avoid eye contact. "I can handle it, you know."

"It's not about that y/n." Tim's hands cupped your face and now you were forced to look at him.

Usually, you would cut and run. Always at the first sign of something becoming deeper. The first sign that told you someone was getting too close and they knew too much about you. The first sign of physical contact.

And yet...and yet. You could drown it all out with Tim.

"You don't have to be tough all the time. Stoic. Unbreakable. Not with me y/n." His strokes were delicate against the skin of your face. You silently nodded, taking his words in. Tim leant in and placed a long, tender kiss on your cheek. You closed your eyes, never knowing how to act when you received such affection.

Then you subconsciously leant into his touch and Tim was more than happy to pull you closer to him. Especially given it was something you rarely did. Now with your arms around his neck and his around your waist, he moved so that his lips were near your ear as he whispered, "You don't have to tell me what happened. Just let me take care of you y/n. I swear, you'll always be ok."

[brucewaynehater101]

Breaking in because some months ago you posted an AU idea where Dick kills Batman before Damian arrives but imagine if Dick realized that Batman got so bad a child resorted to being brutalized because he thinks he's needed to fix him

So then Dick ends up killing Batman BEFORE Jason ever arrives, and disposes of the body in such a way, that trying to ressurect Bruce w/ Lazarus waters is pointless

There's two three four ways we can do this

a. Jason only learns of Batman dying after coming back to Gotham and before meeting the Batclan

b. Jason learns Batman died while still with the League, something that throws him, Thalia, Ra's, and whoever else for a loop

c. Jason doesn't even know Bruce is dead after getting to Gotham, and it takes time until he learns Dick is Batman

d. Jason and the League only knows of Batman being replaced or missing himself, and only later learn he's been found or announced dead

When the newest Red Hood tries to pull shit? Dick (the new Batman) has none of it as he is extrq protective of his Robins (Tim and Stephanie) after Jason died and Tim was abused

Now what to do w/ Bruce and Wayne Enterprises? I mean, Dick w/ Barbara and Tim's help can become the new patriarch and owner/CEO but there's also the fact that tjey need to navitage the chaos that is either Brucie Wayne dying or going missing qnd being qnnounced deqd unsuspiciously

There's also the idea that Dick (+any accomplices) would have to navigate relations with the Justice League whilst hiding his murder, and Gotham has to deal w/ the changes a new Batman introduces

Suddenly Batman is putting the wellbeing of the people, especially his kids, over justice and his ideals, and whether or not anybody suspects or knows this new Batman "took care" of the old one leaves a lot of potential for plotlines

Also Cassandra, if she still joins the Bats, has to grapple with the patriarch being a killer because the previous patriarch was an abuser

Gosh how will this affect Damian and how he's raised? How will the LOA respond to Bruce's death?

Oh yeah Jason, I can't imagine Dick would leave Joker alive either after what happened to Jason, especially if there was a Joker Junior incident

It's gonna be a mindfuck for he, he needs wanted for his father to prove himself as still being his dad, for Bruce to choose him over "The Right Thing To Do" even if Jason became something Batman would hate

Except Jason doesn't even get the closure of his father proving himself a failure of a father, because Bruce already failed as a father to Dick to such a degree that his reward was death

Jason doesn't know who his father is or would have beenanymore, just that Dick is to Tim, Stephanie and so on what Jay dad wasn't as he was in the League, training for an encounter that would never come

Ooh! But let's add on more, shall we?

I don't remember the og post you're referencing, but let's be mean to Dick :)

I like the many many possibilities for Jason you've listed out, but imma get specific on how Dick killed Bruce.

To be cruel, let it be an accident.

For the exact stage, perhaps the JJ incident still happened, but after Tim was Robin. Dick didn't find out about it because Bruce never informed him, and Dick was busy with Bludhaven and the Titans (it was another unfortunate timing for Dick).

About a year or so after the event, Tim is doing much better. He's been on the field for a bit and doesn't relapse as much (either into thinking he's JJ, Joker's his dad, or the laughing spells).

Joker captures Tim again and calls him "Junior." Dick has never seen Tim react the way he did to that name.

They have history. A bad one.

Bruce isn't surprised.

Bruce hid this from Dick.

The young adult has to take several breaths, but he holds his reservations. Maybe Bruce was respecting Tim's boundaries (yeah fucking right).

Fighting happens ya da ya da and Dick learns what Joker did to Tim.

He's fucking enraged. Joker has touched another sibling of his.

Then, the Joker and Tim are in a precarious position. Dick rushes to save Tim and barely manages to get him in time.

When Dick looks up, the Joker is perfectly fine. Nightwing feels his blood start to boil.

His baby brother almost slipped out of his grasp when he rushed as fast as he could to save him. Dick moved, without hesitation, to save Tim.

Batman would have had to move, without hesitation, to save Joker over saving Robin.

Batman put Joker's safety over Robin's.

The flip is instantaneous.

Nightwing starts pummeling the shit out of both Joker and Batman. Due to the element of surprise, Dick had the upper hand. He gets broken ribs and a concussion for his troubles, but Batman is beneath his fist taking the beating Nightwing is dealing out.

He never realizes Bruce has stopped breathing until he feels a hand on his elbow.

Tim's expression is grim as he focuses on Dick. The teen is heavily dissociating as he takes in the scene.

Tim's lips, when he glances down at Batman, start to tremble. He presses them together to try to keep a calm facade.

The teen closes his eyes, breathes in, breathes out, nods to himself, and then opens them.

Bruce is dead. Joker is dead.

They've got work to do.

~~~

In this AU, Steph becomes Robin during Tim's recovery stage from JJ and after this incident. Tim takes a step back after helping Dick dismantle and hide Batman's body to consolidate Dick's position as Wayne heir, majority shareholder, and Batman. He works with Babs to aid Dick in these various transitions.

Lucius is the acting CEO, which takes a huge load off of Dick's shoulders.

Dick is obviously not doing fine about accidentally murdering his dad. At least he killed Joker too, though.

Tim's not doing great either, but it's fine. He eventually steps back into the cape. Steph and him like to play pranks on Gotham. They both vehemently deny that there's two Robins running around at the same time.

I don't think Alfred would stick around after they murdered and covered up the murder of Bruce :/ I wish he would, but maybe he takes a nice retirement in England.

Babs, Tim, and Dick are good at covering their tracks. There's rumors that the new Batman killed the old one, but there's also rumors that he eats people.

The LoA don't know who killed Bruce, but they know he's dead. Tim and Dick still grieve him (feelings are fun like that), so they aren't on the suspect list.

Red Hood shows up demanding answers.

Batman (Dick) confirms that he *will* put his family first. Always.

[batbux]

"Sometimes I forget they're gone."

Bruce looks up from work - a crossword he's doing to pass time until the gas chromatography finishes - and over to where Tim is rolling back and forth in front of a secondary terminal. The steady squeak of his chairs back wheel was almost meditative in a way. He stared up at a blank screen, face only illuminated in profile by the gentle glow of Bruce's own terminal.

"Who is?" Bruce asked when Tim didn't elaborate. For all that this was functionally his home now, the boy had a tendency to occupy space in a way that made Bruce's jaw ache from biting his tongue.

"My parents." Tim stopped rocking and the Cave was as silent as a grave between them. One grave in particular. "Like, something happens and I think, oh, Mom would love to hear about this. Or Dad would get all huffy and rant over something silly and it would be fun to listen to."

Tim, who loved his parents and, arguably was loved in return. He spent most of his time in his room or the Cave, exploring other rooms in the Manor like his parents did archeological sites. Interesting to him, but not a place to be.

"Sometimes I pick up the phone and get as far as putting in their international number, you know?"

Tim, who was parented through phone calls and post cards. Tim, who spent so much of his life in boarding schools that an actual home looked more like a museum than a place to live.

"I'm sorry, bud," Bruce murmured. There wasn't much else he could say, aside from reminding Tim that his father was still alive. Comatose, hanging in limbo, but alive.

Bruce thought it would be easier if Jack Drake died with his wife. Bruce also hated himself for thinking those kinds of things.

"I just keep thinking about Mohenjo-daro," he continued. "We're learning about it in school this unit and I keep remembering- I keep remembering that Dad said he's been there. I can't keep the dates right in my head and he would have helped."

"I can give it a shot," Bruce offered even though he knew it was the wrong thing to do now just as it had been the wrong thing to do when he offered to find a Romani language tutor for Dick when he realized he was forgetting things.

It would solve one part of the problem, but it would never replace the help a father could give.

Tim turned towards him, pale face washed out in stark relief under the light from behind Bruce. He wondered if Tim could even see his face in the relative darkness and found a cowards courage knowing he couldn't.

"He told me a story about it once," Tim said. "I can't remember the ending. I can't remember what he told me. Why didn't I listen better?"

Bruce had no answer for him. He set his paper aside and opened his arms.

Dick would have thrown himself at Bruce, taking comfort where and when he could. Jason would have slunk over and did his level best to press close enough to cave in Bruce's chest and make himself a home.

He was, in hindsight, too good at that.

Tim always hesitated. Weighting the pros and cons? Overthinking a simple comfort offered freely? Bruce never knew.

Still, Tim slowly abandoned his squeaking chair. He let Bruce tug him in for a hug.

Tim was older than Dick had been, around the same age as Jason. Even so, in moments like this he seemed immeasurably younger. Tim, cast off in a prestigious boarding school, had lived comparatively untouched by life's hardest lessons. He signed up for the work, but he couldn't have known how hard it would be. Bruce never should have let him in, but what could he do now? Tim came to him when he needed a partner the most and he was so, so grateful even as regret threatened to choke him.

A beep, then. Bruce's eyes drifted upwards.

"The drugs we lifted from the Iceberg Lounge?" Tim asked against Bruce's neck.

"Yes."

"Show me."

Bruce let Tim out from the protective circle of his arms and did so. The moment lay broken behind them, like so many others.

[justanothervigalanty]

[Revenge]

(robin!jason Todd x fem!y/n Gordon)

part 2: the drug ring

Jason’s funeral was probably the saddest thing you ever heard about because you didn’t attend. You couldn’t possibly. Bruce had to make you promise not to push your self. Which meant 4 months on bed rest wich didn’t stop you were on crutches for the next 6 months and that card left a scar from your shoulder to the start of your neck. Bye bye vests. You became depressed. People tried to help you but nothing could help. Dick and Babs tried to talk to you but you didn’t listen or expect their help. One night Your dad had woken up to you screaming having nightmares about that night. Jason’s screaming the crowbar dragging across the ground the last thing he said to you “I’m sorry” repeating in your head. “Hay y/n! Are you ok!?” He asked sitting on your bed. “It’s him the dream dad the joker!” You said crying into his arms. At this point you had told him that you had gone after Jason that you were what Gotham was called the night’s shadow or just shadow.

“Bruce what do you want?” You asked running down the stairs off the bat cave buckling up Jason’s second belt that you used if he was out off Gotham. Around your waist. “Did you find him?!” You said running to the Batmobile. “No, but this is Tim.” He said which is when you saw a small no older than 12 black haired boy sleeping in the back seat. “Ok what is going on?!” You whispered “y/n I know this is wired but I need you to stay calm.” Bruce said carefully talking out the boy. “He knows who we were he knows you’re the night’s shadow he knows dick is nightwing he knows I’m Batman and that Jason is- was robin.” Bruce said handing the kid to Alfred who took him to bed. “What is your point.” You asked “Batman needs robin” he said needing down placing a hand on your shoulder. “That’s why I’m here so that I can help!” You said stepping back “yeah well I’m worried that you might-“ “what kill somebody!?” You yelled “well y/n after last night I thought that you needed a break…” Bruce said walking away. “So you’re fireing Me?!” You asked “why because you don’t have the guts to kill that mad man! Who may I remind you killed your fucking son?!” You shouted “you know what screw you and dick and that random kid you who you think could ever replace Jason! Fuck you bat!” You said storming out.

“Y/n! Y/n! What’s going on!” Babs said as you came storming into the house and started packing your stuff “y/n talk to me!” She yelled moving herself to her wheelchair and coming over to you. “I’m leaving!” You said grabbing your crutches that you needed from time to time. “Y/n! No y/n!” Barbra said grabbing your rist “you can’t leave me!” She said tears in her eyes “please. Mom left us i know you hardly remember her! I can’t lose you too!” Barbra said holding your wrist tears streaming down her cheeks. “I’m sorry babs but I can’t I love you” you said hugging her before leaving.

Around a 4 years later you had found your self one off Batman’s most wanted. You were after the joker and if anyone go in your way they wouldn’t get a second chance to tell you. In till you were reached out to by a drug trading ring who offered to help you find the joker as long as you became a sort of protection against other gangs. And you slowly made your way to the top. To the point where you had one of the most powerful gangs by the time you were 18.

But not everyone took you seriously because of your obsession with killing the joker and none would dear to ask why. Some said “joker killed her parents” or “she was jokers sidekick and then she randomly quit so the joker has been after her eversincs” and to closest one “you know that one robin? Yeah the one who was killed yea! They dated but you see boss is the jokers daughter so he killed the boy and well she wasn’t happy so swore revenge!”

But this life that you lived was about to change in a way you only ever dreamed about. The dawn of red hood

[phantomdreamss]

I have a thought about Reverse Robins au

Basically I saw something about how Reverse Robins is just Robins with their names changed, so Damian has Dick's personality, Tim has Jason's and so on. Something else I'd like to point out is that most of the time they still all had used the name Robin which...I don't think they would have? If I remember correctly (Which I might not be so please correct me if I'm wrong), Robin was originally used because it was a nickname that Dick's mother had used for him which is one of the reasons why Dick gets so pissed at Bruce in one of their fights about Jason taking over the mantle.

With that being said I think that tension about being replaced wouldn't be as prevalent as it is in these fics, at least not in the sense of "Robin" but as siblings. I realize "replaced" isn't the right way to describe this in more of a sibling dynamic, what mean is when siblings get jealous of each other(typically of the younger siblings) when the attention of the parent/s moves off them, if that makes any sense.

Something else the post I saw pointed out was that we never see Steph, Duke, or Cass in these fics and like...why don't we??? It's almost like they don't exist at all, or maybe people are just forgetting about them because they're "not Robins"(even though Steph was Robin at one point but I won't get into that here).

One thing that I'd like to put out there; why is it just the robins/batfam being reversed? I'd love to see the other teams being reversed as well, superman, flash and arrow for example. Idk, I just think it'd be interesting if we branched out a bit to other families/teams with this same concept. I will say it is interesting to see Reversed Robins interacting with each others teams in the fics that branch out to it.

I guess that's one of my main things though, similar to the post I saw(which unfortunately I'm unable to find again) is that it's just the Robins..with their names being switched but keeping the personalities of the original order. I would love to see the dynamic change with the actual characters changing. Yes, Damian becomes the oldest and Dick becomes the youngest, but they're still Dick and Damian; two completely different characters with their own issues that wouldn't change to be like the other just because the order of their ages have changed. The same goes for Jason and Tim.

Idk, I just think that there are so many things that could be done in this au that isn't being taken advantage of. If they wouldn't be called Robin what would their names be, and if the order they're taken in by Bruce and their ages changed how would that affect their dynamic and their stories? Would their stories be changed drastically or would they stay relatively the same with only a few minor changes for it to make sense? Obviously there are parts that are integral to their character that can't/shouldn't be changed without changing the character too much, how would people work around that? How would their relationships with the people around them change, even if they're the only ones who's ages are being switch around or not? Again, there are so many things that could be done to make it more interesting in my opinion.

All this to say, I do love the Reverse Robins Au, I just wish people would take a little more creative liberty with it. I also would like to know other peoples thoughts on this as well.

[hyperfixation-throwaway]

All Quiet at the Batcave (one-shot fic)

“I said quit it.” Jason snarled, wiping the sweat off his forehead on the back of his hand. With the other hand, he tested the bike’s brakes again.

Better, but still not nearly responsive enough.

A perfectly pleasant Friday night and he was stuck on the lower level of the Batcave tending to the Batcycle, performing “bat-repairs”.

I could be out with Roy and the others, on casual patrol or getting hammered at the boulevard, or both at once. A rare night off and this is how I’m spending it.

To his great annoyance, he heard Damian—who had rolled the Batcomputer’s chair right up against the railing—tear out yet another page from his notebook and scrunch it up, “But why does it bother you so much? It’s just paper, Todd.”

With that, another paper ball came sailing from above, this time hitting Jason’s shoulder.

Jason sucked in a deep breath. He had been making some good headway in his anger management sessions lately and he was NOT going to let Damian cost him that progress.

“You’re right, Damian.” he said through gritted teeth, “It’s just paper. Although doesn’t wasting it go against your deeply environmentalist beliefs?”

The youngest child snorted, “It’s hardly considered a waste if it fulfills my purpose.”

Deep breaths, Jay. Deep, deep breaths.

“Yeah? Well, I have my own purpose to fulfill.” Jason nodded towards the Batcycle, “The calibration’s been off since Bruce crashed it last week and he hasn’t stopped complaining since. Let me finish up in peace and you can continue turning the cave into your private paper ball-pit or whatever.”

“You know Bruce is only making you do this because he wanted an excuse to see you, right?” Tim’s voice piped up. The Red Robin had draped himself across the brown leather couch next to the Batcomputer, holding his phone barely an inch away from his face.

Bruce had been saying he’d replace that couch for years now—actually, since the days Jason was Robin. But for some reason or another, the couch remained unmoved and unchanged. Hell, it technically even outlived Jason.

Jason scoffed, “I’m touched. Though if that were really the case, wouldn’t he be here?” He scanned the floor for the rag he was using, only to remember that he had draped it over his shoulder earlier.

“Father said Catwoman suddenly found a new lead on the Malkovich files.” Damian grumbled, “How convenient that she—of all people—managed to uncover such critical information right when he was starting to get desperate for it.”

Jason and Tim’s chuckles echoed lightly throughout the cave.

“That explains why he didn’t take you along then.” Jason grinned, “A brooding kid in bright tights trailing behind you doesn’t exactly help set the mood.”

His youngest adoptive sibling only glowered at him in response and then proceeded to storm away in a huff.

“Come on, Ian!” Jason called after him, “You realize that by brooding even harder, you’re just proving my point, right?”

Still no response, only the whoosh of the cave’s elevator doors closing.

Tim sat up on the couch, stretching his arms above him, “Is he genuinely upset? Or is he just being a Wayne?”

“A little bit of Column A, a little bit of Column B.” Jason shook his head, “But maybe it wouldn’t hurt to check on the kid… you know, for the sake of the petty criminals he might take his anger out on tonight.”

Tim leaned over the railing, “Ah, are you already done with the Batcycle?”

“Not even close.” Jason laughed, “But the Batman has suffered worse ordeals than missing his Batcycle for a couple nights. Oh hey, toss me Damian’s notebook, I can do the polite thing and leave Bruce a note.”

***

“Damian?” Jason knocked, “You there?”

No response.

“If you’re bored, the three of us could go on patrol.” Tim called out, “We’ll even pass by the animal shelter on our way to Main Stree-”

A muffled, “Shut up!” came through the door, “Would you both just shut the fu-”

“Hey! No swearing. At least, not for you just yet.” Jason banged on the door, “Now open up. You heard what Alfred said about damaging even one more door this month and I’m not taking any-”

To their surprise, the lock turned and the door swung open immediately. This was a most unexpected development considering that this standoff didn’t end with a chase through the east gardens this time.

But the even bigger surprise was the state they found Damian in. They had expected to find him all suited up and halfway out the window. Instead, they were greeted by teary eyes and a sniffling nose. At least his eyebrows remained as they usually were: set in a deep frown.

“Go away.” he simply hissed, “Clearly, I have no intentions of sneaking out tonight. So you can leave me alone.”

“Whoa, not so fast there, Mini B.” Jason stuck his arm out, stopping the door from slamming shut, “How are you supposed to shred my apology if you don’t listen to it first?”

“I don’t want an apology.” Damian roared, “l want you gone.” he slammed the door on Jason’s arm again, even harder this time.

“Damian,” Tim reasoned gently, “if you give us at least a vague idea of what’s wrong, it’ll put us at ease and we’ll leave you alone knowing that you’ll be able to handle it—whatever it is.”

The door creaked as it widened once more.

This time, Damian couldn’t bring himself to look them in the eyes “But it’s… embarrassing.” he mumbled through gritted teeth.

“More embarrassing than when Jason spilled coffee on Wonder Woman?” Tim raised an eyebrow.

“That was years ago.” Jason snapped at Tim, “On the other hand, your little Twitter mishap was only last week.”

Tim narrowed his eyes at him, “Carefully consider what you’re about to start here, Todd.” he warned.

“Me? But you’re the one who brought up-”

Damian let out an exasperated, “Ugh!” and moved to close his door once again.

“Wait, wait, wait.” Jason stopped it again, “Sorry, bud. You were saying?”

“Never mind.” he answered coldly, “It’s not like it would make a difference anyway.”

“You don’t know that for sure.” Tim rebutted, “Just try us. There’s no harm in that, right?”

Damian sucked in a deep breath before letting all his words out at once, “Every day it feels like this family gets smaller. Grayson’s in Bludhaven, you’ve got your sorry excuse of an apartment, even Tim’s spending more nights at the Tower. And now-“

He slowed down, his chest deflating further, “Now it seems even Father is losing interest in taking me out on patrol. How long until everyone just… forgets me?”

Jason and Tim met each other’s gaze silently. They had always known that Damian didn’t always mean the harsh words he threw their way, but who knew he cared this deeply about them?

About Dick? Sure. He and Damian have a bond so solid that on most days, not even Bruce can compete. But Jason—and by the looks of it, Tim as well—had no idea that Damian would even notice their absence, let alone miss having them around.

Jason finally broke the silence, “I’m only going to say this once,” he gently placed a hand on the young boy’s shoulder, “but no matter how busy we all get, no one’s ever going to forget about—or replace—the only Blood Son.”

He lowered himself onto one knee before continuing, “Nothing is going to change that fact. Not people moving out of the manor, not people finding new teammates, and not even patrol dates with Catwoman. Hell, not even if Bruce somehow married Catwoman. You are Damian f**king Wayne! You’re our little brother—whether you like it or not. And you’ll never be rid of us.”

Bursting into tears, Damian threw his arms around Jason’s neck—yet another unexpected, but welcome, development of the evening.

As Jason held him close, he felt Tim join in the hug from behind, “I always knew you were a big softie.” he chuckled in Jason’s ear.

Jason laughed, “You better savor this moment, Chalamet. Because it’ll be your last once I’m released from this hug.”

“Then bring it, Todd.” came the smug response.

***

Epilogue

Bruce practically dragged himself out of the Batmobile, his left shoulder still sore from the explosion.

As he took his gloves off, he was surprised to find the cave deserted. No yelling or punches to be heard, just the low steady hum of the Batcomputer.

“Boys?” he called out, but his voice was still hoarse from the tear gas earlier. Clearing his throat; he called out again, louder this time, “Boys?”

But only his own booming voice echoed throughout the cave and returned to him.

He spotted Jason’s tools in a neat pile near the Batcycle. Approaching it, he found not one, but two notes.

The first one—clearly in Jason’s handwriting—read: Sorry, will finish later. Something came up.

The second one—this time in Damian’s handwriting—simply read: Finished homework. Gone to Bludhaven and will return shortly.

Bruce smiled to himself. A visit to Bludhaven doesn’t sound like a bad idea, but maybe a shower and a nap first.

[moonlight0934]

Rotten Touch

Tim types, keeping his eyes on the computer in front of him. This is one of the many reports that he’s written this week since he decided to put them all off instead of doing them when he first needed them. He’s completely engrossed in what he’s working on, trying to get it done as fast as possible.

Bruce has gotten to the point where he’s not struggling so badly, and he and Dick have started working things out. Bruce hasn’t been as hard on him, but he remembers the stern tone that he took earlier when Gordon told him that proper evidence hasn’t been sent in, or dropped off yet.

His eyes are burning, and he’s barely able to keep them open, but he still has a few more things to do. So he keeps typing. Tim hears someone coming down the stairs, so he turns. Dick is walking into the cave. Tim turns back around, sure that he’s going to just work on something, and leave Tim to work in peace. He still feels himself tense slightly without telling his own body too.

He works just long enough to wish he was alone again, though he’s not sure what Dick is even doing. Then a hand lands on his arm, and he flinches back. He turns, still wincing slightly. Tim and Dick make eye contact, and Dick looks slightly surprised. Probably because he’s used to Tim forcing himself not to flinch, or coil away from him or Bruce.

“What’s up?” Tim asks, too tired to pretend like nothing happened.

“I was just wondering how much longer you were going to be working on that. Bruce isn’t going on patrol tonight, and I thought you might want to come with me. It’s a lot of ground to cover by myself.”

“Yeah, I��ll be done in thirty minutes, and then we can go.”

Dick smiles.

“Yeah, ok. I’ll come back in half an hour.”

Tim turns back to the computer, continuing with his work. He finishes a little faster than he thought he was going to, so he just leans back to wait. Dick takes him on patrol, and they split up to cover the most ground the fastest since neither of them wanted to be out there. It isn’t until they get back to the cave that Dick slaps Tim on the back.

“Good j-”

Tim steadies himself while simultaneously taking a few steps away from Dick.

“Sorry, I was just trying to say that you did a good job.”

Tim nods.

“I’m just tired and off balance.”

He scurries up the stairs before Dick can ask any more questions.

The next time this happens, everyone is there. Jason is sitting on top of a box of spare parts that he definitely should not be sitting on, Damian is standing with his arms folded, and Dick is sitting with Cass and Stephanie to the right. Bruce is finishing up the meeting that he called about a new trafficking ring that’s working out of Gotham, and Tim is standing the closest. He’s staring off into space, not listening anymore since he put together the information packet anyway.

Bruce’s hand lands on his shoulder, and he flinches back hard enough that he almost falls. Suddenly everyone’s eyes are on him. He feels his face burn, and he turns away quickly.

“I’m going to finish my reports. I’ll see you guys later.”

“What did you do to Replacement?” he hears Jason asks as he’s walking away. He doesn’t hear the response, or what anyone else asks.

He races to his room, and throws himself down on his bed. It’s only a few minutes before someone knocks on his door. He doesn’t answer, hoping that whoever is knocking thinks he’s somewhere else. Then they knock again.

“Drake, I know you’re in there.”

Damian, damn it. He’s not going to go away.

“Come in,” he calls, sitting up.

Damian walks in, shifting from foot to foot in the doorway.

“Um… are you alright?”

Tim shrugs, not really sure what’s happening.

“Father told us that he wasn’t going to tell us what’s going on with you. That’s fair, and you don’t have to tell me, but I want to make sure that you’re alright. If you don’t feel comfortable telling me why you did that, and there’s no way for you to explain otherwise, then we can just sit together.”

Tim sighs.

“I’m not sure. I was just taken by surprise.”

“PTSD, it’s strange. However, most of them don’t have that kind of reaction in certain spaces, the ones that are considered safe. Are you saying that isn’t safe, or is there no reason for it? I’m aware that mental health is weird, and can’t really be explained.”

“Come sit with me,” Tim offers.

Damian closes the door, and sits a foot away from Tim, facing him.

“I had a lot of things happen to me when I was younger, and a lot of it happened here. My training was brutal. I’m sure that you know what I mean by that. You’d understand better than most of them.”

Damian hums, though he still looks confused.

“Well, I’m normally good, but I was just startled. That’s why the cave doesn’t feel as safe as it does for everyone else.”

“But… wait, are you saying that Father abused you during your training?”

“Yes, he did on a few occasions.”

“Why did Grayson look guilty then? Wasn’t he not even in town? How did he even know that was happening?”

Tim shrugs.

“I don’t know how much of what Bruce did that Dick knows about. However, we didn’t have the best relationship either back then, and I don’t think Dick ever got over it. He can be really hard on himself, and he saw some of what I had to deal with, but he didn’t want to deal with Bruce. That’s totally fair, and I signed up for it, but that doesn’t mean that Dick didn’t feel selfish after everything was said and done.”

Damian hums, pulling his knees up to his chest.

“So the touch feels invasive, especially when you’re not thinking, or trying to calm your mind. I understand. That used to be what happened when anyone touched me. It would feel like something was crawling under my skin, and that I’d be violated. Like I let someone do something far too trustingly. Sometimes it would make me feel sick, especially when people would act like touching me wasn’t a privilege that I didn’t give to most people. Like it was nothing, and I wanted nothing more than to recoil, and never let them do it again.”

“Yeah, mine isn’t that bad, but I know what you’re talking about. Like touch scares you, and it makes you feel icky.”

Damian nods.

“Exactly.”

Tim leans back.

“I knew that you would get what I was talking about.”

Damian smiles softly at his lap.

“We’re more similar than we like to think.”

[magnoliasandarson]

weary bones, pt.1

The question seeped into Jason’s brain like rising flood waters, he ignored it at first- but he was drowning in it now. The cave was silent, save for the quiet fluttering of bats above. It wasn't advisable, but whenever he got in his own head, Jason either found himself at his grave, or at the memorial.

It's not a nice question, it makes his lungs burn and his head spin. Or maybe thats the chronic pain radiating from the autopsy scar. His hands pulled the armor from his torso, leaving a long sleeved compression shirt as the only barrier between blunted nails and scar tissue.

He sits there, absently clawing through the fabric of his shirt, staring at the bloody and burned suit he had once been so proud to wear. Was it even him? The boy that died, he had been small, promising, and happy. Jason was a large man, the family disappointment, and angry all the time.

Once upon a time, Jason had beaten his brother and called him replacement. But Jason wasn't the kid that had died, he too was a replacement. Only difference between Tim and Jason- Tim was a good place holder. Did they love him more when he was dead?

His eyes traced the broken mask. He remembered it shattering with his occipital lobe, remembered feeling what felt like molten lava around his eye. It was all so easy to recall. Pain always was.

Would I do it again?

After the "reconciliation" between him and Bruce, Jason had found a semblance of peace. Dick was always there, the big brother he had once dreamed of. Tim, for some reason that Jason would never understand, had forgiven him and they patrolled together often enough. He even got to see Damian again, his former shadow finding his way back to his side. Life could almost be described as good.

But, fuck, was Jason tired. Even the pit of snot he was dunked in couldn't take away the phantom pains. The violent bursts of agony that caved his skull in all over again randomly. Nothing could take away the anger that filled him, but now it was largely internalized. The only blood shed when the world went green was his own.

Would I do it again?

Was it worth it- all the pain and misery?

Would I choose this?

[tiger333k]

Elaborating more on Jason Grace joining the Wayne family (because why not):

The batfam discovering the poor kid has no idea on what family is when Jason, slightly ashamed after a panic attack, asks if he can go to therapy-

Therapist: what do you think of when you hear family?

Jason, confused blond who never had one: loss. abandon. mistake. alcohol. wolf. soldier. army. burden-

(Being raised by wolves an a freakin army camp is what growing up means to him apparently)

Therapist:… what about parents?

Jason: disappointment. absent. broken promise-

Therapist: love?

Jason, bitterly remember Cupid: cruel.

The batfam: holy schist he is traumatized as hell

The family afterwards: let’s play a game!

Jason, almost saying: okay, but no maiming or killing

Then afterwards when he finds out their identités he tries to remember saying it every time the boys fall into chaos (it still ended up how they normally did)

Ironic how the two Jasons are completely unlike, Jason Todd just being Jason Todd, while Jason Grace learning how to be Jason Grace while still having those ‘I spent 13 years in the army’ traits

Jason Grace having similar backstories with Bruce Wayne (cue loss of parents, taking justice…)

Nico coming to visit because jasico has to happen somehow. Bruce realizing both of them (Jason Grace, Nico) giving off ‘plz adopt me’ vibes

Jason’s room looks exactly how his old bunk looked in CJ. orderly. tidy. the boy was trained to do this. OCD, apparently.

Jason’s death counts as retiring from the Pontifex role, but he’s still drawing shrines because no one deserves to be forgotten

(him thinking about Nico when he had this thought, not realizing it could apply to him too. did anyone reach out to him when Piper had broken up with him and he was alone? Mellie, thinking Jason has did it to Piper, hated him)

Jason learns to cook with Alfred. Because I have this image of Jason with an apron just casually holding a pan looking like a mom (because he is one) and because he wants bonding time

Jason+Dick= ultimate mom force

Tim teaching jason about computers. The blond boy going ????

Damian dueling Jason continuously. Jason being this big blocky blond has to be a challenge

Jason Todd thinking Jason Grace was his replacent at first, and furious. until Jason Grace points out they literally only have three two things alike: they’re orphans named Jason, and they both died

When Thalia visits the family goes: u sure ur related??

Naturally ALL of them tease him about his crush on Nico (another BFFs thinking their crushes on each other are unrequited thing)

Jason being all polite in the family at first, unsure how to approach this topic of home. the family finds him suspicious sometimes, but does their best to welcome him. when his secret comes out the family sets down all their remaining doubt and welcomes him, (“it’s okay.”) and Jason looking so lost and hopeful. then Bruce says he’ll always have a home with them and that’s when a tear slides, slowly, down Jason’s face. He has a place he can call home

and yes, Jason can be calm. He can be caring and stern. He has breakdowns and moments where he’s the strong one helping everyone. He’s human after all. But nothing beats the moment when Jason is truly pissed…

[prismuffin]

I'm very sorry Crow Anon. I did steal our brain cell, I couldn't remember how to clean my clothes and needed big brain power. ÒWÓ

👉👈 I give it back, I promise.

But, Pris I have an ask for you, that may cheer you up!!

How do you think taking care of the batboys (separately) after they got their wisdom tooth taken out, would go??!

I think it would be funny, snice they're chaotic on their own. Without any drugs in their system.

(Alfred definitely banned Dick "Its faster if I jump out the window to the floor balcony under me" Grayson from drinking caffeine until he was an adult).

- OwO

As someone who’s gotten their wisdom teeth removed quite recently I’d say I’m capable of answering this ask. Each of these scenarios has a bit from my experience ok? so—

Jason would be the type to just want to nap. Even when you successfully got him in the car to take him home all he was doing was saying how he wanted to nap but ong he never even tries to close his eyes to sleep once. After you both get home and you help him into bed the first thing he does after you change his gauze is crash. Which makes things difficult for you because now you have to undress his limp body and move it so that he's not laying down completely so that he doesn't accidentally choke since he's still rather numb. When he wakes up he's sad about the food he can't eat so he tries not to for as long as he can. Overall a very sleepy guy after getting his wisdom teeth removed.

Dick is so chaotic off the bat. Even when they were wheeling him out to the car you could tell that he was gonna be a handful. Tried to call everyone on his phone and when that failed he resorted to carpool karaoke. You tried to get him to stop since he shouldn't try talking but he just wouldn't shut up. Once you got home and tried to get him into bed he'd just be laughing at your struggle which would just make you struggle more since he'd be even harder to move while laughing. Because of the laughter he bleeds all over the floors and his shirt which he only laughs harder at. Similar to Jason kinda because once you replace his gauze he's out like a light, and finally you have a moment of silence for the time being. (this entire paragraph was just my experience and I'm not even joking LMFAO)

Tim would probably be almost the most tame, he'd be very sleepy and would start to mumble about tech he's working on. He'd ask you questions about designs and such and you'd just have to remind him to sit still and try not to talk much. Overall a sweetheart, he listens to you and doesn't try and talk while you're switching out his gauze. He sleeps, wakes up, and eats jello all day. The least of your problems honestly.

Damian would be quiet at first...too quiet, then comes the complaining. He'd be annoyed that he was in pain and numb at the same time??? Makes a song about the pain. You have to stop him from biting his lips because he's numb and is probably biting way harder than he realizes. After getting him home and changing his gauze he's very vocal about his hunger and is sad that he can't have normal food, but he likes the chocolate pudding so it's bittersweet for him. After his numbing wares off some and the pain starts hitting he's even more complainy- especially since he did bite his lip too hard and now it's bleeding which neither of you noticed until then. He's fine if you can get him to stop complaining though.

( I’m so so sorry this took me a minute to answer yesterday I woke up and my day went to shit and stuff happened and I had a mental breakdown and forgot all about this message! )

———

Directory

[mintacle]

Jason Todd being girl-coded, you've opened my eyes! You are so right and suddenly a lot of things about him make sense (including why I like him so much), especially with how the narrative treats him (right down to turning a morally complex character into a straight-up card-carrying villain who eats puppies, ironically right around the time they did that to another female character, Talia). Jason is even written how I (a girl) tend to write angry victim power fantasy female characters. Like yes babygirl, scream and rage against the heavens about how unfair it all is!

I remember a post calling Jason "the Punisher for girls" except... yeah he kinda is. The Punisher is a male power fantasy with all that implies, while Jason is such a girl power fantasy and written with a lot of the usual negative narrative bias female characters usually get.

Except if we're honest and look past the superficial similarities of lethal force and guns, the narrative role of Batman is far more like the Punisher than Jason. Jason's role is the Punisher's daughter. Jason is if Lisa came back and was angry after what happened and big parent man Frank had to try to keep his (hysterical emotional angry-like-a-girl) daughter from crossing his arbitrary lines because she was going "too far" and tragically, he's unable to "save" her from herself and he must Move On while his child gets locked up or lies dying behind him (I can seriously imagine exactly how a proper Lisa-is-back plot would go down it's crazy how similar it'd be to Jason's return).

And another way Jason is girl-coded is that he's mentored by Talia, a woman. In comics you don't see male characters mentored by female ones often. Sometimes they can be taught specific skills by them for a brief time (like Tim and Shiva) but Talia's role as Jason's primary mentor and caretaker for several years is pretty unusual in comics.

True!! I'm glad my posts resonated with you so much. :)

I don't really know anything about the Punisher so I can't add my opinion to the mix, but other people will probably recognize your point.

But! On the subject of female characters mentoring male characters @benbamboozled made a great post actually about how women are seen as Having A Specific Skill or Expertise to teach whereas men are mentors For All, or For Life. And yeah Jason does break the rule absolutely! But we also don't get to see to much of that on page. He is in Talia's care for years, but other than Lost Days and utrh we just don't get to see these two interact. I either made a post or drafted and forgot about it, how DC won't publish Talia and Jason working together because it is vital to DC's agenda of keeping them marginalized that they each be alone nomatter how much reason and history they have to be in more frequent and meaningful contact.

At the same time, we really only see Talia caring for Jason in a motherly context, she isn't cast quite in the role of a mentor, rather sending him around to teachers than teaching him herself. It's a step in the right direction, but the fact of any mentoring and most interactions occuring off-screen, as well as their relationship being ignored later, or ret-conned like in the utrh movie where Talia was kind of replaced with Ra's.

For me a lot of Jason's girl-coded aspect arises from his opposition to Bruce who embodies patriarchal ideals. To some extent Jason is in the role of every person who has been let down by the patriarchy. The system we were told is for our benefit as well and which has let us down. It's about how we were let down by this world we thought was fair when we were smaller and trusted to be protected. It's about how our own father's have let us down, even if the time we last thought of them as protectors might have been many, many years ago.

None of these experiences are exclusionary to women either. I am not a woman, but I am queer. And I have been let down both by the idea that my father could ever be my protector instead of the one I needed protection from. And I have been let down by the idea I used to have of a world that would give me a voice without me having to prove myself every step of the way.

The need I have for more interaction between Talia and Jason is so much about two people villainized and victimized by the same patriarch-favoring narrative bonding and rising to challenge and upset the status quo. While I am aware that it will never happen and that DC already left Winnick a lot of leeway to have made Talia play such a type of role at all, logically it should be what follows.

Jason is girl-coded, but he also drinks his respect-women juices.