#one of them feels like LEGENDS star wars and one of them feels like LUCAS star wars

[antianakin]

Kenobi Show: Aims itself at all of the Prequels fans, primarily the fans who were kids when the Prequels came out and spent like two decades being shamed for enjoying them by older Star Wars fans. Made with the Prequels in mind, made to feel like them and follow their messages and themes.

Critics: This show is TERRIBLE, it makes no sense and Obi-Wan is so lame.

Ahsoka show: Aims itself at all of the OT fans who HATED the Prequels for "retconning" the Legends information and interpretations of the Jedi and how the Force works. Really just Legends storylines adapted with TCW and Rebels characters instead of OT characters.

Critics: Filoni should be doing all Star Wars, we finally have a Star Wars thing that feels like Star Wars, this is the best show ever.

[gffa]

could you give your opinion, or examples from canon, about balance and the light and dark sides of the force? I keep running across fics where people argue that the Jedi are wrong and the dark side is just as necessary, and I feel like canon was clear that’s not what balance means in the Star Wars universe

Hi! First off, I'll say that I would recommend going around arguing with people's fic (not you're necessarily planning to do this! just that I think it's a good reminder), because those people must be allowed their space in fandom, just as we're allowed our space in fandom. I have found that I actually have a much better time in fandom when I'm just in my own space doing my own thing and ultimately this is just fandom, what other people do in their fic, so long as it's not hurting real people, is their choice and not mine, if I let that kind of thing go, it gives me more time to have fun with the things I do enjoy.

That said, sometimes we often get people coming into our spaces to argue and I do like to have my citations ready when it comes to that. Within canon, you're always going to be able to argue about unreliable narrators, even when you point out that all the Force-using dark siders are pretty much miserable villains, there's going to be people who argue.

And one thing that's tricky in my opinion is that the dark side is "necessary" in that it exists. It will always exist. It exists within the Jedi--but they have never denied that it exists or that it's part of life. It's just that they don't embrace it, they don't let it bite into their heart, because Yoda's speech in The Phantom Menace is 100% accurate. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.

And if people want to argue about in-canon stuff like that, my response is usually just to go, "I tend to follow George Lucas' Star Wars." and leave room for others to enjoy Star Wars from other creators, if they wish. It's not a value judgement, if someone wants to enjoy something from the Legends continuity--that's what it's there for! And it's not my place to tell them that they're not allowed to enjoy it or follow that version instead. I hope they're having a blast! We'll just agree that we're working with incompatible views on authorial intentions priorities. People are not obligated to take Lucas' commentary with the same weight that I do, so I always advise that we learn to let go of things when someone doesn't hold the same views as we do on this kind of thing, because ultimately that is the message of Star Wars!

SO, THE DARK SIDE, here's what George Lucas directly has said about it:

“The core of the Force–I mean, you got the dark side, the light side, one is selfless, one is selfish, and you wanna keep them in balance. What happens when you go to the dark side is it goes out of balance and you get really selfish and you forget about everybody … because when you get selfish you get stuff, or you want stuff, and when you want stuff and you get stuff then you are afraid somebody is going to take it away from you, whether it’s a person or a thing or a particular pleasure or experience. "Once you become afraid that somebody’s going to take it away from you or you’re gonna lose it, then you start to become angry, especially if you’re losing it, and that anger leads to hate, and hate leads to suffering. Mostly on the part of the person who’s selfish, because you spend all your time being afraid of losing everything you’ve got instead of actually living. "Where joy, by giving to other people you can’t think about yourself, and therefore there’s no pain. But the pleasure factor of greed and of selfishness is a short-lived experience, therefore you’re constantly trying to replenish it, but of course the more you replenish it, the harder it is to, so you have to keep upping the ante. You’re actually afraid of the pain of not having the joy. "So that is ultimately the core of the whole dark side/light side of the Force. And everything flows from that. Obviously the Sith are always unhappy because they never get enough of anything they want. Mostly, their selfishness centers around power and control. And the struggle is always to be able to let go of all that stuff. "And of course that’s the problem with Anakin ultimately. You’re allowed to love people, but you’re not allowed to possess them. And what he did is he fell in love and married her and then became jealous. Then he saw in his visions that she was going to die, and he couldn’t stand losing her. So in order to not lose her, he made a pact with the devil to be able to become all-powerful. When he did that, she didn’t want to have anything to do with him anymore, so he lost her. "Once you are powerful, being able to bring her back from the dead, if I can do that, I can become emperor of the universe. I can get rid of the Emperor. I can make everything the way I want it. Once you do that, you’ll never be satiated. You’re always going to be consumed by this driving desire to have more stuff and be afraid that others are going to take it away from you. And they are. Every time you get two Sith together, you have the master, the apprentice, and the apprentice is always trying to recruit another apprentice to join with him to kill the master. The master knows that basically everybody below him wants his job.     “Only way to overcome the dark side is through discipline. The dark side is pleasure, biological and temporary and easy to achieve. The light side is joy, everlasting and difficult to achieve. A great challenge. Must overcome laziness, give up quick pleasures, and overcome fear which leads to hate.”  –George Lucas, Clone Wars Writers’ Meeting

“Happiness is pleasure and happiness is joy. It can be either one, you add them up and it can be the uber category of happiness. “Pleasure is short lived. It lasts an hour, it lasts a minute, it lasts a month. It peaks and then it goes down–it peaks very high, but the next time you want to get that same peak you have to do it twice as much. It’s like drugs, you have to keep doing it because it insulates itself. No matter what it is, whether you’re shopping or you’re engaged in any other kind of pleasure. It all has the same quality about it. “On the other hand is joy and joy is the thing that doesn’t go as high as pleasure, in terms of your emotional reaction. But it stays with you. Joy is something you can recall, pleasure you can’t.  So the secret is that, even though it’s not as intense as pleasure, the joy will last you a lot longer. “People who get the pleasure they keep saying, ‘Well, if I can just get richer and get more cars–!’ You’ll never relive the moment you got your first car, that’s it, that’s the highest peak. Yes, you could get three Ferraris and a new gulf stream jet and maybe you’ll get close. But you have to keep going and eventually you’ll run out.  You just can’t do it, it doesn’t work. “If you’re trying to sustain that level of peak pleasure, you’re doomed. It’s a very American idea, but it just can’t happen. You just let it go. Peak.  Break. Pleasure is fun it’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever. “Just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe again it’ll come back and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure, it’s about you. It’s a selfish self-centered emotion, that’s created by self-centered motive of greed. “Joy is compassion, joy is giving yourself to somebody else or something else. And it’s the kind of thing that is in it’s subtlty and lowness more powerful than pleasure.  If you get hung up on pleasure you’re doomed. If you pursue joy you will find everlasting happiness.” --George Lucas, Academy of Achievement Speech, 2013

"Knowing that the film was made for a young audience, I was trying to say, in a simple way, that there is a God and that there is both a good side and a bad side. You have a choice between them, but the world works better if you're on the good side." --George Lucas Interviews

     ”[The Jedi] trained more than anything else to understand the transitional nature of life, that things are constantly changing and you can’t hold on to anything. You can love things but you can’t be attached to them, You must be willing to let the flow of life and the flow of the Force move through your life, move through you. So that you can be compassionate and loving and caring, but not be possessive and grabbing and holding on to things and trying to keep things the way they are. Letting go is the central theme of the film.“ –George Lucas, Star Wars Archives 1999-2005

BILL MOYERS: “Do you know yet what, in a future episode, is going to transform Anakin Skywalker to the dark side?”      GEORGE LUCAS: “Yes, I know what that is. The groundwork has been laid in this episode. The film is ultimately about the dark side and the light side, and those sides are designed around compassion and greed. The issue of greed, of getting things and owning things and having things and not being able to let go of things, is the opposite of compassion–of not thinking of yourself all the time. These are the two sides–the good force and the bad force. They’re the simplest parts of a complex cosmic construction.” --George Lucas and Bill Moyers 1999, Time Magazine

     “The core issue, ultimately, is greed, possessiveness - the inability to let go. Not only to hold on to material things, which is greed, but to hold on to life, to the people you love - to not accept the reality of life’s passages and changes, which is to say things come, things go. Everything changes. Anakin becomes emotionally attached to things, his mother, his wife. That’s why he falls - because he does not have the ability to let go.      “No human can let go. It’s very hard. Ultimately, we do let go because it’s inevitable; you do die, and you do lose your loved ones. But while you’re alive, you can’t be obsessed with holding on. As Yoda says in this one, [The scene in which Anakin seeks Yoda’s counsel] You must learn to let go of everything you’re afraid to let go of.’ Because holding on is in the same category and the precursor to greed. And that’s what a Sith is. A Sith is somebody that is absolutely obsessed with gaining more and more power - but for what? Nothing, except that it becomes an obsession to get more. The Jedi are trained to let go. They’re trained from birth, they’re not supposed to form attachments. They can love people- in fact, they should love everybody. They should love their enemies; they should love the Sith. But they can’t form attachments. So, what all these movies are about is: greed. Greed is a source of pain and suffering for everybody. And the ultimate state of greed is the desire to cheat death.” --George Lucas, The Making of Revenge of the Sith, 2005

     “The thing about Anakin is, Anakin started out as a nice kid. He was kind, and sweet, and lovely, and he was then trained as a Jedi. But the Jedi can’t be selfish. They can love but they can’t love people to the point of possession. You can’t really possess somebody, because people are free. It’s possession that causes a lot of trouble, and that causes people to kill people, and causes people to be bad. Ultimately it has to do with being unwilling to give things up.      “The whole basis here is if you’re selfish, if you’re a Sith Lord, you’re greedy. You’re constantly trying to get something. And you’re constantly in fear of not getting it, or, when you get it, you’re in constant fear of losing it. And it’s that fear that takes you to the dark side. It’s that fear of losing what you have or want.

     “Sometimes it’s ambition, but sometimes, like in the case of Anakin, it was fear of losing his wife. He knew she was going to die. He didn’t quite know how, so he was able to make a pact with a devil that if he could learn how to keep people from dying, he would help the Emperor. And he became a Sith Lord. Once he started saying, “Well, we could take over the galaxy, I could take over from the Emperor, I could have ultimate power,” Padmé saw right through him immediately. She said, “You’re not the person I married. You’re a greedy person.” So that’s ultimately how he fell and he went to the dark side.      “And then Luke had the chance to do the same thing. He didn’t do it.” --George Lucas, The Phantom Menace, An Oral History, 2019

 “The secret ultimately like in Star Wars is that you have to not be afraid. Fear is the enemy; fear is the Dark Side. If you afraid, you are going to the Dark Side. The Light Side is compassion. As long as you love other people and treat them kindly, you won’t be afraid. So, the secret is to just love everybody - I know that sounds very 60s but that’s what I grew up in - but it its fear that cause the problem. So you have to stop being afraid and be kind to everybody.      “The main theme of Star Wars is that compassion is the good side, fear is the bad side.” --George Lucas, Mellody Hobson George Lucas - Virtual Speaker Interview, 2021

     “The thing with Anakin is that he started out a great kid he was very compassionate, so the issue was how did he turn bad. How did he go to the Dark Side? He went to the Dark Side, Jedi aren’t supposed to have attachments. They can love people, they can do that, but they can’t attach, that’s the problem in the world of fear. Once you are attached to something then you become afraid of losing it. And when you become afraid of losing it, than you turn to the Dark Side, and you want to hold onto it, and that was Anakin’s issue ultimately, that he wanted to hold onto his wife who he knew, he had a premonition that she was going to die, he didn’t know how to stop it, so he went to the Dark Side to find, in mythology you do to hades, and you talk to the devil, and the devil says ‘this is what you do’ and basically you sell your soul to the devil. When you do that, and you’re afraid and you’re on the Dark Side and you fall off the golden path of compassion because you are greedy, you want to hold on to something that you love and he didn’t do the right thing and as a result he turned bad.” --George Lucas, Mellody Hobson George Lucas - Virtual Speaker Interview, 2021

    “Obviously, there are people that just do the easy thing, and the easy thing is to be angry, which turns to hate. It’s not an active thing; it’s a passive thing. Being angry with somebody is a passive thing. You have to work not to be angry, and if you don’t work at it, you’ll just be angry for the rest of your life. Bitter, angry, and of course that leads to suffering - it’s the bad side.” --George Lucas, The Star Wars Archives: 1999-2005

    “In this film, [The Phantom Menace] you begin to see that he has a fear of losing things, a fear of losing his mother, and as a result, he wants to begin to control things, he wants to become powerful, and these are not Jedi traits. And part of these are because he was starting to be trained so late in life, that he’d already formed these attachments. And for a Jedi, attachment is forbidden.” --George Lucas, CNN, 2002

There's probably more, if you want to scan through my Jedi Culture and Teachings in Canon guide, just look for chapter 2 of any given part, the section on "How the Force works" is where I put any of these quotes, and you can look around if you're looking for more examples of how the dark side needs to be faced and overcome, that it's part of the nature of life, but that we and the Jedi both should be choosing the light, because that's the way to eternal joy, the dark is the way to eternal suffering. (Check out "Jedi and the need to focus, to be calm when using the Force" section especially, because the Force becomes unreliable for a Jedi when they get angry.)

Overall, it's about how the dark side is consistently, repeatedly tied to attachment (the fear of living without someone, so desperate that you'll let a thousand people die to save that one person you can't live without, as it's more aligned with the Buddhist meaning), tied to fear and anger and hate, which are parts of our lives, but that we must work to overcome. The Jedi don't deny this--look at any scene where they express negative emotions, Mace does it on Geonosis, Yoda does it at Palpatine before their big fight, Obi-Wan is mad on Geonosis when Anakin almost abandons his post, etc., but they don't let it bite into their heart, they let those feelings pass, they let them go and find their way back to calm and peace, because "the world works better when you're on the side of good (the light side)".

[david-talks-sw]

What are your thoughts on the je'daii? Do they even work, like I find myself irritated by the concept because people often use them to validate/prove the notion that "balance = both sides of the Force"

If you stick to what George Lucas said, in Star Wars a person being "balanced" is someone who accepts their inner darkness and resists its pull nonetheless.

When fans mention the Je'daii, it's usually in the context of:

"The Jedi downgraded from the Je'daii, limited their studies of the Force, refusing to study the Dark Side was a mistake. It was an original sin that caused them to create an imbalance within them."

Which is weird, to me, because the whole point of the comic's narrative is that:

the Je’daii Order’s way was doomed to fail.

Introduced in the Legends comic series Dawn of the Jedi (2012), the Je'daii are the predecessors of the Jedi. They are an order of Force users who studied and practiced both the Light Side and the Dark Side in hopes of finding Balance.

The reasoning is simple: everyone has a bit of good and bad in them, you learn to master the good and the bad sides inside of you, indulging them equally. But while this method seems sound on paper… it didn't work.

Consider that they’re already dabbling with the Dark Side...

... but hey, at least they’re aware of its dangers, they’re trying to be responsible about it.

There's a support system where they all warn each other when they're about to cross a line. But even then, there's many who've fallen and been exiled to a moon, to be rehabilitated.

Suddenly, circumstances compel all of them to use the Forcesaber, a weapon that only activates when you draw on the Dark Side.

And that does something to them. Over the course of a year, they all become increasingly aggressive.

Soon, a faction breaks off because they no longer want to stop using the Forcesaber. They’re addicted to the Dark Side.

A war ensues, at the end of which the Jedi Order is born, a group of Force users who:

acknowledge and accept their inner darkness,

while also striving to overcome it rather than give it power.

So that’s the moral of the whole Je’daii story.

Their idea of "Balance by wielding both" was actually so fragile and difficult to maintain that all it took was a little push for them to become vulnerable to the Dark Side's temptation.

Hell, even after the Jedi Order was established, one of its founders, Master Rajivari - who in Dawn of the Jedi (2012) is framed as a wise ex-general who, albeit strict, spends his days meditating and philosophizing - he goes to the Dark Side too! 

Because that's how the Dark Side works.

The Dark Side isn’t just "negative feelings" or a "bad guy superpower" that you can mix with a "good guy superpower" to unleash the ultimate 'Force blast'. This isn’t an anime.

The Dark Side is a drugs/smoking/drinking addiction.

It's selfish, temporary pleasure. The more you consume it...

... the more you get addicted...

... and the more it consumes you right back...

... until nothing remains.

Jon Ostrander, who wrote Dawn of the Jedi (2012), echoed this sentiment multiple times:

“As I see it, those working on the light side work with the Force, channeling it, open and sensitive to what it tells them. They serve it. Those on the dark side try to impose their will on the Force, to make it do their will, to make it serve them. The Je’daii believe in a balance between the light and the dark side and so attempt to use both. Problem is, a balance is hard to maintain and the dark side is so very seductive.” - John Ostrander, LA Times, 2012

“The Je'daii aren't light side or dark side, although they know and are aware of both. Instead they seek a balance in the Force between light and dark. Balance, however, is a difficult thing to maintain and there is always the danger of falling wholly to the dark side — and some Je'daii have done so.” - John Ostrander, Newsarama, 2012

And this is a recurring theme throughout all of Ostrander’s comics, by the way. Be it with the Je’daii, but also with Quinlan Vos or Cade Skywalker, the point remains the same: 

"Yes, wielding the Dark Side gives you great power, and you get to show off some badass new tricks...

… but it ultimately destroys you and everyone around you."

Remember: if it weren’t for Cade or Quin’s loved ones, neither of them would have come back from the Dark Side. They aren't badasses because they can use Force Lightning, they're badasses because they found the strength to give that up.

So if you genuinely think the Jedi "downgraded" by refusing to give the Dark Side more power than it already has on them... you're missing the point.

“It’s not about ripping things out of the sky using the Force or Force Lightning. A lot of people, they think “oh look how powerful Vader is, look how powerful the Emperor is, I want to play be the bad guy because I get these powers”. It’s an empty feeling, at the end of the day, after the moment. [...] The Dark Side is a spiral downward that you’re trapped in.” - Dave Filoni, “Force of Rebellion”, 2018

It was an upgrade.

Framing "balance" as "equal Dark and Light Side" is like consuming one (1) salad a day and one (1) whole bottle of vodka and calling that "balanced". No, buddy, that'll kill you. Because:

The vodka is better at being destructive than the salad is at making you healthy.

It's won't stay just one bottle per day. It'll eventually become two, three, etc.

Because as George Lucas stated time and again, resisting the Dark Side is a constant struggle.

So that's my two cents.

You've probably already heard about the recent announcement of a Dawn of the Jedi feature film, a biblical epic that will be directed by James Mangold.

And truth be told... it scares me SO much that we came THIS close to an Episode IX: Duel of the Fates that framed "balance" as - you guessed it - giving equal power to your light and darkness.

Like, how did this ⬆️ get as far as it did? Did nobody think to sit Colin Trevorrow down and explain to him that he fundamentally misunderstands how the Force works?

So all I can do is cross my fingers and hope James Mangold has a better grasp of - if not the lore (I wouldn't be surprised if the words "Je'daii" or "Tython" aren't uttered once in the film) - at least the message.

[identityflawed]

feels to me like the primary division between pro and anti jedi sentiments is narrative perception. pro jedi individuals tend to adhere to the ideas that are explicitly stated by lucas himself or very clearly put out and acknowledged within the fictional universe, whereas anti jedi individuals tend to lean more into analysis of the in-betweens. they both apply real-world morals and experiences to a fictional plane (and despite its various nonfiction influences, star wars IS fictional), and they do it in such excess that it makes the majority of more level-headed fans less eager to interact in such a heated fandom.

are the jedi bad? no. the majority of them were good people doing good things, even while the sith corrupted the galaxy around them. did the jedi deserve order 66? no. anyone who says that is insane. are the jedi completely blameless in the events of the clone wars? no. they became complacent in the idea that the sith were warriors and were incapable of changing their ways in order to win, despite victory being a key part of their code. the jedi are not paragons of perfection — they are human, and humans can be ignorant. did the jedi cause anakin to fall? yes, in part. while palpatine was the primary driving force towards anakin’s destruction, the jedi’s ignorance towards both anakin’s trauma AND his burgeoning relationship with palpatine did contribute to the rise of darth vader. (i know they let palpatine and anakin interact because they were concerned that denying palpatine would cause problems in the future, though this is sourced from legends. i take that and raise you one: what kind of grandmaster uses a 10 year old as a political game piece? and even in lucas’ canon, you can’t ignore that yoda, who is said by palpatine to be about equal in his strength, failed to sense that there were sinister things afoot, and failed to discern that having anakin spy on his pseudo father figure — and yes, his manipulator — would only cause problems)

as a fan of palpatine i can say wholeheartedly that the majority of the events leading to anakin’s fall are his doing, and that palpatine is not much of a tragic character at all. if you want someone to talk about where the dark side is your CHOICE, look no further than palpatine. thats called being self aware. any pro or anti jedi who believes you can’t blame someone for something they cant control — such as anakin's past or palpatine deceiving the jedi — becomes inherently hypocritical because CONTROL is a key theme in star wars. control of your emotions, control of yourself, control of others, on political, emotional, psychological scales. anakin’s lack of control in his life was not aided by the jedi, and when he finally got the chance to choose for himself, he fucked up. bad. and it WAS his choice, at the end of the day, though the odds were stacked against him, at least in his mind. (which is another issue — anakin is a traumatized individual. trauma victims are going to act differently than what adheres to common sense and logic. an ex-slave with attachment issues and a savior complex is going to freak out if he thinks the woman he loves is going to die if he can’t save her)

people tend to forget that lucas actually SOLD his rights to the franchise away, and nowhere in the contract did disney promise to adhere to the nuances (and there are very few nuances with lucas, unfortunately) of lucasfilm's initial six movies. george lucas was not even a good writer by most standards. he inserted a lot of racist stereotypes into his films, and drew from history in both thoughtful and moronic ways. he was a product of his time, sure, and he created an incredible idea that has gone strong for 40 years, with a solid idea woven within it of compassion and hope. but it isn’t his story anymore, and he cared more about the money than the message, at the end of the day. i have a hard time agreeing with anyone — on any topic, within star wars or otherwise — if they only listen to one person as their end-all.

yes, lucas created star wars. but its not a perfect creation — it is flawed. the jedi are flawed; anakin is flawed. the progression of star wars will continue to take new views on the events of the initial six films, and guess what? that happens with EVERYTHING in the world. perspectives differ by the hour, everyone has different experiences and ideas. if you want to watch something where the morals and central ideas never change, where everything is black and white, go watch the USA's two-party debates. or maybe coco melon.

star wars is complex and nuanced at its core, nowadays, but you are none the lesser if you have differing opinions. you can believe what you want to believe, when you want to believe it. that’s freedom. you are not required to accept everything that disney puts out as canon or even remotely accurate, but the MOMENT you start to put down people (and im talking full on insulting, targeting writers, specific blog posts, bullying, etc) for thinking differently than you is the moment you have gone too far. after all, what did the sith do, and why did they do it?

[padawanlost]

Hey! I just came around your blog and I’m actually new to the Star Wars fandom (I know I’m ridiculously late 😭) and I happen to be a huge Anidala shipper 🥺 they’re just so wholesome and sweet. But I did want to ask if there’s any official material out there (such as novels, or comics) explaining why they both love one another so deeply? Your one of the blogs I find has the most reliable prequels related stuff, so I’d love to hear your answer ♥️

Hey!! Welcome to the PT fandom, we're lucky to have you :)

I wanted to write a love story in a style that was extremely old-fashioned, and frankly I didn’t know if I was going to pull it off. In many ways this was much more like a movie that from the 1930s than any of the others had been, with a slightly over-the-top, poetic style-and they just don’t do that in movies anymore. I was very happy with the way it turned out in the script and in the performances, but I knew people might not buy it. [George Lucas]

Beyond the obvious "they had to", I can give you a thousand reasons why they fell in love: the trill of "forbidden love", shared childhood experience, mutual admiration, their physical appearances, mutual idealization, loneliness, shared values like loyalty and family, a escape from duty, etc. Because they are such complex characters we cannot reduce their story into a simple equation that could explain why they fell in love. Because…why do people fall in love? we can’t rationalize human behavior like that, not perfectly anyway.

Her life before Anakin belonged to someone else, some lesser being to be pitied, some poor impoverished spirit who could never suspect how profoundly life should be lived. Her real life began the first time she looked into Anakin Skywalker’s eyes and found in there not the uncritical worship of little Annie from Tatooine, but the direct, unashamed, smoldering passion of a powerful Jedi: a young man, to be sure, but every centimeter a man—a man whose legend was already growing within the Jedi Order and beyond. A man who knew exactly what he wanted and was honest enough to simply ask for it; a man strong enough to unroll his deepest feelings before her without fear and without shame. A man who had loved her for a decade, with faithful and patient heart, while he waited for the act of destiny he was sure would someday open her own heart to the fire in his. [Matthew Stover. Revenge of the Sith]

Both Anakin and Padmé were laughing now, and their laughter increased as they saw the look on the unfortunate creature’s long-billed face. Anakin looked at Padmé and the girl at him. Their laughter died away. The girl reached up to touch her hair self-consciously, but she did not divert her gaze. “I’m going to marry you,” the boy said suddenly. There was a moment of silence, and she began laughing again, a sweet musical sound he didn’t mind at all. The creature who accompanied her rolled his eyes.  “I mean it,” he insisted. “You are an odd one,” she said, her laughter dying away.  “Why do you say that?” He hesitated.  “I guess because it’s what I believe …” Her smile was dazzling. “Well, I’m afraid I can’t marry you …” She paused, searching her memory for his name.  “Anakin,” he said. “Anakin.” She cocked her head. “You’re just a little boy.”  His gaze was intense as he faced her. “I won’t always be,” he said quietly. [Terry Brooks. The Phantom Menace]

Personally, I like to think their relationship was the culmination of their time together and apart. Their jobs, their sense of duty, their longing for peace and family and, most of all, empathy for each other.

Most people looked at them and saw a senator, a jedi and little else. They built these masks to protect themselves…but when they were together they could see each other for what their really were. That’s rare and for it to happen you have to empathize with someone and, most importantly, trust them with yourself.  Anakin and Padme had that. They had the bond, the faith in each other that allowed them to fully opened themselves and sustain their relationship beyond physical attraction.

[findafight]

I’m a sucker for Steve learning about the party’s interests, do you have any thoughts about the kinds of things he’d do for each party member? (E.g. he has the ability to recognize tony hawk, despite his inconspicuousness, because of max’s skateboarding)

Actually now I'm obsessed with the idea that Steve is one of the few people who are not personal friends with him who is able to identify Tony Hawk without a skateboard. Like. Steve is an athlete and respects athleticism, and gives credit where it is due. (He does NOT allow making fun of Olympic athletes, even the weird sports, just because some people don't appreciate how hard you work for it.) So he's like "wow that Tony guy sure is talented. He is so high in the air. Good for him." And never forgets his face. At some point someone shares one of those "didn't recognize actual skate legend Tony Hawk " stories except it ends with "and then the guy in pastels standing beside Eddie Munson slapped his (Eddie's) chest and went "hey!! That's Tony Hawk!! Let's see if we can get an autograph for Max!" And I realized I had been making awkward small talk about cocktail weenies with sports legend Tony Hawk while working up the courage to ask Eddie Munson for an autograph."

He also tries to learn how to Ollie but he's actually really nervous and wears all the protective gear possible and is only able to go forward. (This is from my personal experience being post concussive and not a good skater. It's scary! My brain meat is delicate!) But Max tells him it's okay and talks about the skatepark in California and some of her old friends from there, and he tries to teach her how to make fried rice.(one of the only actual meals that isn't breakfast food he can cook really well completely from scratch) She gets him to do her hair with El because Steve is the only other person who understands that for El hair is a means of control, and that taking care of it is something important to that feeling.

He and El do jigsaw puzzles together and listen to folk music I think. El would appreciate having the option to talk or not, and likes listening to Steve talk too. Also I like jock El so he gets her overly invested in the Cubs like tells her all the lore and she's obsessed with the goat and she joins a softball team. When she first yells at an umpire for a bad call Steve almost cries of pride. Like. Finally. He's not the only one who Gets It.

Lucas and him bond over basketball yes. But Lucas doesn't yell at refs, and Steve gets why but thinks it's very fun when people yell at officials. Also I think they watch clouds together after practicing. Just nice peaceful, laying on warm blacktop and staring at the sky. Maybe El joins them and Lucas and El can bond this way too. Steve and his little jock siblings. (Why does no one consider max a jock for skateboarding? I guess it wasn't really seen as a sport for a long time...hm..)

Steve also bought a flat of new coke before they stopped selling it and keeps it for Lucas on movie nights or whatever and everybody always yells and groans because where is getting that!! It was discontinued!! Also they watch anime together. Erica and Robin join.

I can see him getting into some video games with Dustin and Mike and Lucas. Only the two or more player ones though he doesn't like playing alone. Like. Okay this whole post has anachronisms but please imagine him playing Lego Star Wars (complete saga) with Dustin. The chaos. The yelling.

He's absolutely a pinball guy. They go to the arcade and everyone does their thing but then end up cheering Steve on as he goes for idk star trek pinball glory. Without even tilting it! Idk what to tell you but Steve def loves pinball.

Also before his dad cut him off or after he gets some kind of inheritance he does a very financially secure impulse buy: he purchases an arcade game. Full size. I am partial to Asteroids because that's what my dad impulse bought in the 80's and had it in our basement growing up but let's keep this going he has a themed pinball machine. Icon.

He 100% reaches Dustin to drive. Mrs. Henderson asked him because Steve just looked sad when she mentioned teaching him and she was like well...we could BOTH teach him :) (because she has mentally adopted him. She told him to call her Ma and he does and Robin is like Steve. That's your mum now. And Steve's like no... Everybody calls her that. And she saysnSteve. Only Dustin. Her actual literal son. Calls her that. Guess what that makes YOU.)

Steve and whole party Lego Building Buddies? Mayhaps?

I wish tamagotchis were out in the 80's because Steve would be so diligent a Tama babysitter Erica would sell his services to her friends if they needed it lmao. He'd get all squinty and concentrated you know he'd highscore jump rope but not get the shapes game (me too buddy). Alas. Not to be.

Instead he listens to her talk about her elementary and middle school drama while looking for four leaf clovers. He also has watched MLP with her and may have teared up a little. Also, of course, she is his one true Game Master. Sorry Eddie

Mike is harder...maybe they bond over making snarky comments about people in movies, and then talk about how actually is car racing a sport? And it'd be sort of awkward because Mike has Nancy as an older sibling (even if they don't get along) and he's holding on to animosity that's pointless now. Plus Dustin and Lucas both seem to see Steve as a big brother and friend figure, but like. It's a bit weird for Mike. But still, Mike knows if he bikes to Steve's at two am he'll be hauled in and forced to sit down and asked if he wants a hug and hot chocolate.

Same with will, except Will has Jonathan (El does to but it's different) so at first they're sorta🧍🧍 staring at each other. Steve has to be like sooooo wanna. Tell me about Wizards? Or something? Cool...rocks? And Will would realize that this guy's just, y'know. A guy. Probably similar to Mike except he's not begrudging about it.

I guess a lot of Steve and the party is him listening to them and letting them actually be silly and kids, making snarky comments about the highschool dramas happening, and encouraging them to try different things (he did!) And figure out what they like outside of what they think the rest of the party likes.

[eelfuneral]

I know I seem to be writing a lot about my issues with certain aspects of how the Jedi were written lately, but I will say that I do like them over all—especially when we look at individual Jedi characters. What has been prompting my flurry of dissection of the less than nice aspects of the Jedi as an organization has been seeing a number of really uncomfortable arguments in their favor. I’m going to elaborate on this, but I’m putting it below a cut and tagging it as “jedi critical” so you can avoid it if it’s not your thing. So here is a list of fandom Jedi takes that I don’t love:

1. The insistence that the Jedi having a repressive view of emotions is nothing more than a fanon myth. Star Wars canon isn’t terribly consistent: it has a number of different writers and George Lucas is famously indecisive about his beliefs regarding canon. As a result, you have a hodgepodge of differing portrayals of Jedi, but the one that people are most familiar with is the one from the sequel and prequel trilogies. While it can be argued that the Jedi are more about controlling how you react to your emotions and avoiding harming people, especially if you look beyond the films and at other canon material, the first six films don’t do a great job of portraying the Jedi in that way. When Yoda himself has multiple lines about how certain emotions (not reactions to them, but emotions by themselves) are of the Dark Side, can you really blame people for coming to this conclusion? The same goes for the idea that they don’t *really* forbid romantic love. When you have a whole subplot involving a prominent Jedi Knight having to hide a romantic relationship or face expulsion from the Order for having a romantic relationship in any capacity, then this argument doesn’t hold a lot of water. A rule stating that “romantic partner = automatic expulsion” does not line up with the idea that Jedi only ban possessive love.

2. Having any sympathy for Anakin Skywalker means you think that he’s never done anything wrong ever. I acknowledge that rabid Anakin stans who bash every other character to prop him up are very much a thing, but I don’t believe that we need to shut down every discussion of Anakin that doesn’t paint him as an ungrateful brat who needed to stop having so many damned emotions. Anakin was intentionally written as a sympathetic antihero and later a sympathetic villain. People picking up on the sadder elements of his life and the times where he maybe didn’t get everything he needed from the Jedi Order are sniffing out intentionally placed story nuggets that are designed to make his betrayal of everyone he loved in ROTS that much harder to watch. Also, acknowledging that the Order may not have been a great fit for Anakin isn’t the same as saying that it was somehow abusive or evil. No organization, real or fictional, can meet the needs of every single person. Anakin was certainly loved and cared about in the Jedi Order, but his personality and trauma arguably made him incompatible with their lifestyle.

3. The weird vitriol at the idea of Gray Jedi. Gray Jedi were very much a thing in the legends continuity and have been a fanon staple for literal decades. A lot of people aren’t fond of this concept, because they feel that it misrepresents how the force works, particularly in current canon. That’s perfectly fine, but acting like this type of Jedi was never, ever a part of canon is silly. Insisting that it’s a cardinal sin to depict a Gray Jedi in fanworks, which exist specifically to be a free-for-all that may not be canon compliant, is just mean. You didn’t have to like every fanwork or concept, but you cannot control what other people create for fun.

4. Outright denial that the clones are enslaved by the Republic. Clones are described as “property” and “equipment”. The Republic BUYS them. They do not have a choice but to go to war and don’t seem to be paid much, if at all. When a group of people are owned, bought, and sold, they are slaves by definition. I understand that the Jedi were dealt a bad hand and weren’t in a great position to do much about the situation, but I and a lot of other people would have loved to see more instances of Jedi advocating for clone citizenship and freedom. People noticing that the Jedi could have done more for the clones are not stating that they think the Jedi were 100% okay with the situation, and it is entirely possible to acknowledge the deep Jedi/clone friendships that we see in canon while acknowledging what the Republic was doing to the clones. Justifications of the clones’ enslavement mentioning that they liked being soldiers (they didn’t know anything different) or were treated well by the Jedi (Pong Krell existed, and they were still owned by the Republic) make me very uneasy. If your defense of your blorbos reads like Neo-Confederate chattel slavery apologia retrofitted to be about pretend space people, then maybe it’s time to do a little bit of self-reflection.

5. Ableism. When you throw takes like “if the Jedi philosophy regarding emotions is so hard for you, then you are a baby or a sociopath” into the tumblrsphere, they are always going to fall and hit people with disabilities that cause emotional regulation issues. The line between stating that people should not use emotions as an excuse to harm others and outright attacking people for having intense emotions in general is one that I have seen crossed, shat on, and lit on fire in defense of the Jedi.

6. Equating criticism of the Jedi to real-wold prejudice. Saying that criticizing the Jedi is the same as being antisemitic or homophobic is uncalled for. Queer and Jewish people exist in the real world, and pretend space wizards do not. Comparisons like this are insulting because they put real-world prejudice and fandom wank over space wizards on the same level. Do better.

[leih-dupont]

After seeing so much on here and Twitter about #SaveTheAcolyte and all the nonsense going on within. I felt that, as a lifelong fan of Star Wars, enough was enough. To all publications that pander to the loud minority in this fan base, I present my short counterargument.

Attack my opinion all you want. I know where I stand. And that is with those in this fanbase who are tired of being ignored and disregarded. Cast aside and overlooked. We were here first. Our voices matter, too. #CancelTheAcolyte #fireKathleenKennedy #saveStarWars

I want to make something absolutely unequivocally clear. The Acolyte failed (and yes, it did fail) because of a very definitive, very decisive reason.

Disney, after purchasing Lucas Films and Star Wars, chose to spit in the face and no longer regard the older/”legends” fan base as a viable audience, or take into consideration their ideas, opinions, or viewership in favor of a new untapped market-because they know that the previous fan base was not going to agree with the changes that they were going to make. And, by pandering to a new, oblivious audience-they could get away with more destruction.

After the purchase, Disney and Kathleen Kennedy chose to “erase” decades of extended universe content that was deeply loved and cherished by the older fan base. Yet, not long after, the bad reception of some of their early projects was met with harsh criticism. Criticism that was met with asinine claims that there was nothing to work with and that Star Wars was creatively difficult to expand upon. It is thanks to the older fan base that this beloved franchise has survived as long as it did. And it is that very same fan base that Disney offensively chooses to ignore in favor of a new audience that has very little knowledge or understanding of the franchise as a whole, which they can now pandering towards with little push back.

To Disney, “our version” Star Wars no longer exists. It was killed and made obscure. Obsolete. Completely irrelevant as only their version of Star Wars is allowed to exist now. A version that they can control, twist, manipulate, and market to a generation of fans that will never know about the magnificent, beautiful, and masterfully crafted world that has been our escape for 40+ years. Stories that have given life to the Galaxy we wanted to be a part of.

I will admit that Disney; while in control of Star Wars, has done an acceptable job at creating wonderful new content and shows like the Bad Batch, Rebels, Rogue One, Season 7 of The Clone Wars, the Mandalorian (S1+2), and Andor. However, that does not mean we can overlook, nor does it justify the existence of other projects that have been routinely seen as critical failures amongst a majority of the fan base. Projects that have attempted to return ideas, concepts, and storylines from past extended universe properties and instead twist them into a crude and shameful attempt at pandering towards the older audience. Attempts that has left members of the older extended universe fan base enraged as beloved storylines, characters, concepts, plot points and themes we all have cherished for decades have become bastardized and pathetically interpreted in a lazy attempt to make us feel heard. THAT is why the Acolyte failed.

I worry that if Disney continues down this path of negligence and ignorance towards the older members of this fan base-it will only lead to further and further critical failures that will even further tarnish the reputation of Star Wars in the pop-culture zeitgeist. We are not some “loud minority” that kicks and screams when we see a “strong powerful LGBTQ+ woman of color” on screen. We ARE the VERY foundation of this franchise. And we are exhausted from seeing what is becoming of our childhood under the umbrella of a multi-billion dollar corporation’s need to further satiate its unquenchable greed. We are scared that Star Wars will no longer become this incredibly important and innovative piece of cinema history, but that it will soon become a shell of a once great franchise that brought millions of people together in a galaxy far, far away…

[moondyad]

idk what i was expecting when going into The Acolyte. i didn't really look into promotional material, just waited to watch the show blind, like i do with most media. Mae and Osha were very compelling characters to me. i loved watching a "twins are not the same person" story where as they grow up, even people with the same DNA can choose different paths. which kind of became ironic with the reveal at the end of the season haha. i'm actually so intrigued by Mae and Osha being the exact same person. i desperately want to know how that happened and why Mother Aniseya created/summoned them. that part of the story makes sense and is great to follow along with for me.

my one gripe remains the same. i still can't quite take Qimir seriously. it stems from my understanding of Star Wars. Sith are never portrayed as morally grey in Star Wars. that's a specific request from George Lucas. the Sith were always evil and selfish while the Jedi were always good and selfless. Lucas always despised "grey Jedi" in the legends canon and didn't consider them true to the major canon. interjecting before someone gets mad, i love morally grey characters! i love people taking Lucas's characters and amplifying their grey qualities! however, as i understood it, no Star Wars media would ever show Sith or Jedi as morally grey (unless they were in the process of changing sides or something) due to it conflicting with the core values of those groups and Lucas's vision for them. so, when the goofball side character was revealed to be the big bad Sith i was ??? because it was to my understanding that Sith don't act like comic relief characters or show mercy. apparently this reveal only blindsided me, because i saw a lot of people who claimed to have picked up on it after his first or second scene. blinded by my understanding of the lore, I wrote Qimir off and was waiting for someone darker, more sinister to show their hand. i don't mind this series being the first to show morally grey Jedi and Sith. i love that Sol was so blinded by his righteousness that he could only see a path forward in which he removed one or both girls from their family and way of life. that's crazy! Sol was either on a path to becoming a Sith or staying light enough that he might have lead a splinter group from the Jedi Order, and either option would have been fascinating to watch. i feel like we haven't learned enough about Qimir yet to have his reveal felt earned. Sol's devastating past actions were earned! we got to know him how he is now and the absolute love he holds for Osha despite it being his biggest weakness. all we know is Qimir now. so i guess that's why the goof to Sith feels so sudden and the morally grey actions don't feel earned. i think Osha joining him was super fast-paced and didn't really feel earned either. i feel like he didn't challenge her beliefs enough. Mae did a better job at that than Qimir did. why didn't she just run off with Mae and not choose either side? she got a sick scene where she bled a kyber crystal and the blade turned red, but that alone doesn't make you a Sith. especially since this seems to be the morally grey Sith/Jedi series. what i need from the second season, if there is one, is way more of a focus on Qimir. i need his morality to have felt earned, just like how Osha's and Sol's were.

also insane how Vernestra just swept everything under the rug. another morally grey Jedi to add to the collection.

[jewishcissiekj]

oh man i've got a few questions because i havent actually gotten to her yet.

first ones kind of rehetorical but what is up with ventress and being orphaned? everyone in star wars has a dead parent or two but damn.

im curious about that planet you always talk about that i simply cannot remember how to spell. starts with an r.

oh and i NEED a fun fact. multiple if you have them.

abd finally, whats your favorite source material? what screams "best characterization" to you? i think i know the answer to the second one, but whats the absolute bottom of the barrel trash that you wish you could wipe from existence?

ooooh I have answers

for the first one, I feel like it was originally (in Legends) just to get her parents out of the way so she'd has a reason to ally with Ky Narec and make her story more tragic. She was the daughter of two warlords who were killed by an opposing warlord (who also killed her Jedi Master eventually), and she ran away after their deaths. In TCW she wasn't orphaned at all but she was given away by the Nightsister nad her mother (who we see in a flashback in the episode "Nightsisters"), and was later raised by a slave owner who was killed by Ky. So she's basically an orphan to benefit her origin story.

yessss Rattatak!!! my glup shitooine. my love my sunshine my favorite Star Wars planet ever. It only appears in a few comic issues and two tv episodes and I'm still not sure what is the appeal it has on me but I love itttt. It's the planet Asajj grew up and was trained as a padawan on, and it's this war-ridden wasteland with bald people and a whole lot of problems. There's not much lore for it, and most of the lore there is comes from the Old Republic video games that I haven't played, but its people are prone to have Force Sensitivity and I just like its vibes. I have a lot of headcanons about it and the wars there, and I love the Rattataki a lot, it's just a fan playing ground for me and it may not sound like it but it is miles more interesting to me than Dathomir.

a fun fact um wait a minute. when developing her younger model for the flashback in "Sisters", Katie Lucas wanted her to have a mohawk. that led to these fucking concepts (from TCW season 3 witches and monsters featurette)

also she canonically once stole a Wookie doll from a Gungan child for some reason (hyperspace stories 3). very silly of her

my favorite source material for her is Star Wars: Republic #60. it's Obi-Wan and Alpha 17 trying to escape her castle and find out her origin story. I'm very normal about it. It's honestly a great issue for her and it establishes many of the things I love most about her (Ratttatak, Aidus, Ky, Warlord Origin, castle Ventress, and more). Haden Blackman's writing is in is so good. the cover is amazing. a close 2nd is her Clone Wars (2003) appearances for many reasons. least favorite is very very unexpected. Dark Disciple. I don't need to just erase it from existence I need to travel back in time to the pitch meetings where it was suggested and burn the paper and the computers it was written on. I need to kill that book

ok!!!! not sorry for the rants I love writing especially about Asajj

[ooops-i-arted]

idk if this is an unwelcome rant or anything but I saw your anti ahs0ka posts from july and I’m just….so frustrated. I don’t want to sound like a dudebro but as someone whose favorite SW character is Luke I just can’t stand Star Wars anymore. I personally didn’t like him in tlj, but I could accept it—but then they just sort of kept chipping at him through every new piece of media. He’s strange in mando/tbobf, no one will join his temple despite apparently all of these older force sensitives surviving rotj, even obi-wan is retconned to know leia more. now this shit w this show, where #she is the self-insert in thrawn stuff. also you don’t even have to be FS anymore, etc etc. the “important Jedi lineage” is now obi-wan-anakin-ahs0ka, bc who even cares about luke amirite. it just sucks because I did genuinely used to like her, but with every new thing it could not be more clear that narratively she should have died bc now the whole gffa’s story is hers

I'd love to say I'm above petty rant but I am SO not, your rant is most welcome. If you don't have anything nice to say about Ahsoka, come sit by me. 😉 (Honestly I'm just happy to see other people acknowledging what a poorly written character she is when I've been saying this since the Rebels season 2 finale. I definitely felt like the only one back then.)

More seriously.... yeah, I do get the feeling of everything you loved about Star Wars being chipped away. I hope those who do enjoy it have fun and all, I don't begrudge anyone that, but I can't lie, I do kinda feel the same way. Like it's all being rewritten Filoni-style. And George Lucas he is not, no matter how much he thinks he is. Also I don't presume to know Timothy Zahn's feelings but I still think it's shitty and disrespectful as hell to carve a big hole out of the wonderful, iconic Thrawn trilogy and plop Ahsoka in. It's becoming REAL obvious that Filoni isn't the creative genius he's hailed as, he strip mines Legends for ideas and then gets the credit.

At this point I almost rather they leave Luke alone. Han is my BOY and they already did him so dirty (left Leia, returned to smuggling invalidating all his character development in the OT, gets a crappy death from his shitty incel son - I did like Solo but it was too little to late) so I 100% get your feelings there. It's like Disney doesn't even care how important these characters are so many people in their rush to replace them with their new, safely copyrighted and controlled characters. And ofc Filoni props his TCW OCs over all. Just look at how Mando S3 had Din and Grogu's story trashed so Girlboss Barbie Bo could feature instead. I'm not sure why they're so resistant to paying writers, they clearly need some new ones.

[gffa]

This is a long rant and I apologise if this comes off as too much 😅 I just want to let you know that I'm SO GLAD you're part of the star wars fandom. You're one of the few reasons my interest in this franchise has survived despite the toxicness that it has seeped into everything the past few years. Yes, star wars fandom has always been pretty much a mess but I feel like these days it's somehow gotten even worse. And there isn't even anything coming out that could distract everyone from the constant drama.

Your blog and your posts about the books are always a breath of fresh air in all this. I really appreciate that you take time to make all these long canon references and share them with us. And that you actually engage with canon content! For some reason that seems to be a tall order for most 'fans' these days.

It's exhausting seeing the ice cold takes about the jedi be repeated over and over again by people who seem to have barely even watched the films, let alone read the random book they're referencing to show how the jedi are So Evil and failed poor anakin by Forcing him to let go of his Attachments so they definitely deserved to all get massacred down to the last child!!! And if you push back by citing literally anything canonical to show how ridiculous their takes are they reference a random obscure legends novel (that they are often twisting and also usually haven't even read) And if you point out that, no, Legends isn't canon (and never has been) and we could discuss it as its own separate thing instead of dragging it into canon discussions, they completely flip and say they don't care and to stop taking star wars so seriously 🙄 ( u can probably tell I've had some pretty frustrating fandom arguments recently lol)

It does feel like groundhog day sometimes with the same arguments being repeated over and over again to villainize the jedi while absolving the genocidal mass enslaving space fascists that are Very Clearly the Bad Guys. And it feels pretty much deliberate at this point when people misunderstand star wars' canon definition of attachment and project all their issues in their own lives with their christian upbringing onto the space monks... This has only been exacerbated by people like Headland jumping onto the franchise and doing this with fuckass disney's approval, so now the racist anti jedi youtubers have started attacking this new anti jedi show so if I defend the jedi I get lumped in with them *sigh*

Anyway, I just listened to Padawan's Pride because of your posts and it was fun and a much needed palate cleanser for me after the months of anti jedi takes. I also started reading your jedi citations project and it's gotten me back into reading some other of my favorite jedi fics and maybe writing some of my own. So tldr; Thank You!

Oh, anon, I hear you and I went through a lot of similar feelings over the last few months. In between a lot of IRL stuff coming up and the fandom getting incredibly weird about Jedi fans (soooo much projection going on that it started getting unsettling sometimes) and the same old constant beratement on my posts, I was thinking that I was just too tired to deal with any of it.

It did get hard some days because it felt like no matter how hard I tried to be friendly and make a point to say that everyone needed to be allowed their space whether we agreed or not, that I would still get words put in my mouth or my posts misinterpreted or accused of trying to shut down other people's conversations, when I've never even interacted with that person, I've never reblogged anything from them, never talked about them, just made my own posts about the Jedi on my own blog.

That aspect of how, if we write posts that cite Lucas quotes or moments from the movies and shows, we're taking things too seriously (or the super weird one of how we're trying to "force" people to have to take Lucas' commentary as a holy grail or whatever), then we're taking it too seriously is SO REAL, I have been through that SO MUCH. And it's like, no! Nobody has to take authorial intention into consideration! But if you're going to say that I ~missed the point~ of what Lucas intended with the movies, I'm going to break out the Lucas quotes to show that, no, I didn't miss the point. You're still not obligated to agree, but the point is that I'm not coming out of nowhere with my views and deriding me as not a ~true fan~ or whatever is asshole behavior.

And it's hard to have that groundhogs day feeling, especially because you don't necessarily want to spend that time getting into arguments with people--they are allowed their own space, if they want it! But if they're coming into our space, then yes we get to respond with an essay if we like. (And, hey, some of us genuinely like writing essays, it's satisfying!) But I've found the best mindset for me to have when arguing is: I'm not going to convince this person in front of me and that's fine, they're not going to convince me, either. But there are other people watching this discussion and they are seeing which one of us is being a pill and which one of us looks kinda fun to hang out with.

Which is my way of winding around to what I really want to say--I'm so glad that I can help you want to have fun in this corner of fandom! There's always going to be times to respond with sharp edges to Jedi-critical stuff (especially when it starts dipping into the racist, xenophobic, bigoted nonsense)(not all of Jedi criticism is this, but it does happen all too often), I don't blame Jedi fans for having their nerves scraped raw by people feeling absolutely free to treat our posts like public property instead of them coming into someone else's lane to make a mess. (I've met some very nice Jedi critical people, this isn't about them, this is about the assholes.)

But is it really worth being in a fandom where that's all we do anymore? We can't avoid the negativity, we can't avoid people being assholes to us, but we can work on making the content we want to see at the end of a long day when we get home and log onto the computer and want to see something that makes us feel joyful.

I hope I'm doing my part to make it fun to stick around the fandom, to want to read some of the books or some of the fic, I love the artists who are drawing the cutest Jedi art, I love the fic writers who are writing great Jedi-positive stories, I love people who make silly shitposts about how funny the Jedi fan be, I love people who cry over the deaths of their favorite Jedi, they help make the fandom worthwhile.

It really does make a huge difference, I think! Whenever I need that same palette cleanser, I just take a week or so to push aside all discourse (don't even go look), just pick up some of my favorite Jedi fics, just go looking for some of my favorite Jedi art, reread "Padawan" or "Padawan's Pride" or "Obi-Wan & Anakin" or "The Living Force" or "Dark Rendezvous" and just spend time thinking about the things I love about the Jedi in canon, thinking up headcanons about lineages or nerdy Jedi philosophy arguments or adrenaline junkies, and it helps create the space I want to be in.

Hearing that I can help you with that is a huge boost as well--I hope you know that it helps me in return to know that we can help build something together here in our corner of the Star Wars internet. We're in this together and we can cheer each other up with cute content and I am getting out the pom-poms for you to have fun with that fic! <3

[david-talks-sw]

At some point when talking about the Jedi and the Prequels and Star Wars, I feel like there's distinctions that need to be made.

There's George Lucas' Star Wars.

And then there's Star Wars the transmedia franchise.

They are not one and the same.

They have similar messages. Depending on which continuity you go for, the message is more or less alike (Disney canon's treatment of the Jedi Order is slightly more aligned with GL's vision than the Legends canon was).

But they are not the same.

George Lucas' Star Wars is just the six films and the first six seasons of TCW which serve as an addendum to the six films, and the values and messages that derive from them.

The transmedia franchise has those values, but they've been diluted through comics and novels and games and authors who don't agree with GL's vision and authors who tweaked it a bit and retcons until it's no longer the same thing.

Which takes us to "did the Jedi deserve to fall" and the answers:

"no, but the institution needed to go"

There is NOTHING to indicate that read in George Lucas' Star Wars.

If you go by the movies ONLY, then the Jedi are in the right, and what happens to them is tragic, and I don't just mean Order 66.

The movies' narrative literally frames them - as a people, a religion and an institution - (and Bail Organa) as objectively good and the only ones trying to do what's right.

However, some of the marketing and storylines and comics and books presented in the EU and in new canon do support this POV.

If you count those as "just as valid and canon as the films and shows" then you'll have a very different view of the Jedi Order.

"yes, for what they did to Ahsoka".

Ahsoka is part of TCW.

If your Star Wars is the same as Lucas', then TCW is meant to be an asterisk in the larger story, nothing more than a footnote.

As such, Ahsoka's part is NOT that big, her being on Mandalore or being expelled from the Jedi Order is NOT a contributing factor for Anakin's turn to the Dark Side.

Ahsoka is NOT a part of the Prequels, which represent KEY moments in Anakin's life and the Republic's downfall.

But for many, Star Wars is the transmedia franchise. And TCW and the Prequel films are one and the same. So Ahsoka's treatment factors into the judgment.

If you add TCW's stories to the mix, welp, the show certainly questions them here and there, showing the war corrupted their values (because it was designed to do so) but in the first six seasons it does so in a fair manner showing both sides of the argument.

They're framed as caught between a rock and a hard place. They HAVE to do the very thing they didn't wanna do or people get enslaved and get killed.

Under Lucas, TCW does what it was meant to do: it adds footnotes, it shows unfortunate downsides. It's not meant to define what is seen in the films.

Whereas by the time we're in Season 7 and Lucas is no longer involved, we get this:

"They could do better but choose not to because they're playing politics." That's it.

Which is what I mean when I'm talking about the franchise: it has grown past George Lucas' vision, for better or for worse.

For some, TCW redefines what is seen in the films.

[sailforvalinor]

I saw you post on seasons 1 through 4 of Dr. Who and I wanted to know more about your accidentally Christian pile. What are some other works do think unintentionally emphasized Christian doctrines or morals?

Ooooooh, really good question!!

So the first thing that comes to mind here is Marvel’s Agents of Shield--each season has it's own story arc and themes, so it's hard to pin down just one thing here, so I'll just talk about a few. I'll talk about the obvious one first: Season 3 in particular has a lot of Christian imagery (though in this case, it's definitely on purpose). You see a flash-forward of a cross necklace at the beginning of the season floating in a spaceship in space right before it blows up, and then you watch as that necklace get passed around from person to person, knowing that whoever ends up with it at the end of the season is going to die. I won't spoil anything more, other than to say that it results in quite a bit of Christ/crucifixion imagery and themes.

Other than this, there's a lot about the redemptive power of love (Fitzsimmons my beloved), individual guilt and how to handle it, how to let go of shame, the inevitable defeat of evil--I know there's more, but that's all I can think of off the top of my head. (AOS girlies/gents, feel free to chime in!) Additionally, one of the main characters explicitly a Christian, and while he's not portrayed perfectly, he's never ridiculed for it by the other characters or the narrative, which is a breath of fresh air. There are of course some things I don't approve of (prepare to have your skip button ready once or twice in the earlier seasons), but it's still a fantastic show, and by far the best show Marvel has ever come out with.

Harry Potter’s a pretty obvious one—Harry has to sacrifice himself and be fully willing to die to kill Voldemort, the fight with the basilisk in Chamber of Secrets has some Biblical parallels—but I’m fairly certain that these themes were deliberate, so I suppose they don’t really count. But they do to me, so 😂

Star Wars is another big one for me—of course, a la George Lucas’s original vision, SW is much more directly influenced by Buddhism, but I find that it often can’t help dipping into Christian themes. I find this is especially true with anything that has Dave Filoni’s name attached, likely because he in turn is pretty influenced by Tolkien and Lewis (Ahsoka is meant to parallel Gandalf, the World Between Worlds in Rebels was inspired by The Magician’s Nephew’s Wood Between Worlds, etc). Mandalorian season 3 in particular blew me away—baptism! Redemption! Rebirth! Mandalorian denominations/sects! Seriously, I was expecting them to come down hard on the strange rules that sect holds themselves to and for Mando to completely reject them—but they didn’t?? It was SO fascinating.

Kingdom Hearts is probably one of my favorite demonstrations of John 15:13: “greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.” Otherwise, I can’t really think of any super prevalent Christian themes I noticed, but that one is just so strong and so important to the themes of the series, I couldn’t not mention it.

Final Fantasy XV has something similar going for it—although what I’m going to say has MAJOR spoilers, so if don’t want to be spoiled, go ahead and skip this (and play the game because it’s great—but Noctis having to willingly sacrifice himself by sitting on a throne in order to purify his kingdom is as blatant as you get. For crying out loud, he’s called the One True King. However this only holds true for the base game—the dlc’s (except for Episode Prompto, but that’s just because it doesn’t really apply to that plotline, also it’s incredible) and the novel in my opinion kind of ruin it.

Legend of Zelda is an interesting one, because it is of course heavily inspired by Shinto, but a few Christian themes sort of snuck their way in there. In Skyward Sword (oh and spoilers for Skyward Sword). Hylia, though certainly not meant to be a direct Christ figure, chooses to be reborn as a Hylian (basically a human) in order to save her people. The difference here is that Zelda does not know that she’s Hylia, and she never regains her goddess status (at least presumably until she dies of old age), but it’s an interesting parallel nonetheless. Also, there’s a famously creepy cutscene in Twilight Princess where we get the story of how the Twili were banished from Hyrule for dabbling in dark magic, and the sequence has always reminded me of the Fall.

Those were just a few that I thought of off the top of my head—I’m sure there are more, but that’s all that’s coming to me at the moment 😂

[smhalltheurlsaretaken]

Hi from France! (bien le bonjour donc)

I would like to know your feelings / opinions about the ST. Are you okay with episodes 7, 8 & 9? Or you don't like them maybe?

Thanks for sharing.

Bonne journée 😊

Saluuuuut and sorry I'm only now getting back to you.

I think I might have talked about that a while back but I don't recall for sure. Basically, I'm only "okay" with them in the sense I fairly enjoyed watching TFA and TLJ - I don't consider them part of Star Wars tho. I like the characters well enough, Finn especially, (I'm not too fond of Poe, which I'm told is a crime around these parts xD), but there were already so many issues with the trilogy overall that I never watched TROS. I know the plot, etc, but I knew I'd never be able to get through it - tbh it made me despise the ST all by itself.

For one thing, I was never too fond of the trope that just recycles the conflicts of the last generation and wrecks the happily ever after we'd already gotten. Like "you thought the Empire was gone? ah! you dumb dumbs! that only happens in fairy tales, realistically the power vacuum would lead to the rise of new, equally authoritarian dictatorships!" Okay, cool, but I thought I was watching a fairy tale. That's what the end of ROTJ was about. So yeah, suffice to say that by ROTS I was absolutely seething wasn't thrilled that Palps wasn't gone. Also didn't like that Han and Leia broke up, also didn't like what they did to Luke, also didn't like the back and forth retcons between the three films, etc etc.

The real contender for my absolute hatred is the hype around Kyle Ron. I didn't dislike him as a villain (he was pretty okay in fact) but the dreamy dark bad boy turned Disney prince that people made him out to be, to the detriment of Finn especially, was a huge reason for my lack of interest. What they did with Finn was absolutely inexcusable imo.

I also like the clunky effects of the Prequels, so the more polished look isn't quite for me.

So yeah, bof. All in all, I'm not big on extended universes. I'm big on coherence, and on being able to take in the story in its entirety and study it, and pick it apart. When a story isn't plotted from beginning to end by a select few group with a singular vision, it's not a story, it's something else. It can be great, but it's not what I'm looking for. So when I talk about Star Wars, I think of Lucas' six movies and TCW. (Sometimes Rebels bc it's really close in spirit to TCW.) The rest (other shows, comics, etc) is in support of that, and if something isn't perfectly aligned with those then I don't bother to include it in my understanding of the story.

(For ex, I really enjoyed the Obi-Wan show but I don't consider it in line with the movies, so to me it's no more "what happened" than the ST or some decades old contradictory Legends content. It's all fan content of various degrees of quality.)

Thanks for the ask!

[spock-smokes-weed]

I’m just gonna vent my feelings about Star Wars for a bit cus I’ve been overwhelmed by them and I don’t want them to bleed over when talking about the franchise with other fans. ie. get really in my feelings mid conversation and just rant at them. Cus that can be awkward

I find myself overwhelmed at the saturation of Star Wars media that we have rn. Overwhelmed to the point where it hurts my brain and I find myself souring on the originals. There’s just so much. So much where every corner of the universe is being expanded upon and explained and I can’t help but feel like it’s unnecessary. I watched the originals first and there was this certain kind of magic to the fact there was a lot you didn’t know. You were plopped into this world with no explanation and the story just happened. The need to pick at every detail in Star Wars like a scab, to create a whole new thing about of it really takes away from that.

I try so hard not to sound like one of those shitty fucking fanboy who’s like “new Star Wars is RUINING the ORIGINALS” because those people suck, and I don’t want to make other fans feel put down for liking the new things. Or put the original up on a pedestal. It’s not that new = bad. Or what you saw in those movies getting expanded upon is bad. It’s just the capitalism of it all I guess. Disney is going to wring all the blood they can from these stones and I feel like I’m just kinda drowning in blood. Disney being the one who is now dictating what is an isn’t “canon” is always going to be upsetting to me on some level.

The great thing about the legends comics in novels is that it was passionate people who were coming up with ideas one what they personally thought would come next. It was all disjointed and uncohesive by design. There was also the clone wars which was a passion project paid for by Lucas’ own dime. It felt like an infinite possibilities that you could take the universe. But now this Disney, they fully control the narrative on the universe and idk that bothers me. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve loved a lot of these projects. The animation of The Bad Batch gets to be as stunning as it is because of Disney’s money. But I think about the recent season on Mando, and the new Ahsoka show, and all the new movies that have gotten announced, and I just get a fucking headache.

I like when stories have endings, and if I’m being fully honest with myself, Star Wars did end in 2005 with revenge of the Sith. I’m never going to want to think past what happens in return of the Jedi because I don’t need to know. If I want to know I’ll make something up myself. And I guess that’s the whole rub here. I feel completely overwhelmed and paralyzed by the sheer volume of this story that refuses to end, that it’s hard for me to be creative with it. It’s hard for me to care about the main six movies because like, in the shadow of all the new stuff they don’t matter anymore.

I know that’s making me sound like a shitty fanboy again, but I guess what I’m trying to get at is like. It can be hard to carve out your own creative vision for the world of Star Wars when the biggest company in the world is making that creative choice for you. It’s hard for me to get the same kind of creative excitement the first few times I watched the originals, because now when I see Luke I think of CGI mark hamill or bitter old man Luke.

The oversaturation of Star Wars and Disney milking every corner or it makes me feel kinda bad while watching the main six because like. What’s even the point now. If you’re going to make Luke a deadbeat and even end the fucking story, when what’s the point of story the two trilogies were trying to tell in the first place? That’s my most bitter and cynical part talking. But it is something I grapple with

This is a stream of consciousness style ramble, just me getting some of my feelings untangled about the pew pew space movies. I think the things I always come back to is that anything disney makes is not considered “canon” to me. As in the sense I don’t consider it part of main story George Lucas was trying to tell. I don’t say this to mean I hate these things, I love a lot of these shows, but I’m going to take what I like and not consider anything from them set in stone. I don’t want to make it look like I’m sucking Lucas off either, I have my problems with him, but he told a complete story with a beginning and an end. You had the clone wars too, but that’s still supplemental material. I can only view the main six movies as fully canon because they tell a full story that’s really good and is the only thing I really care about. I’m sorry if I suck for that but this is to keep me sane.