#oh no!!!!!! micolash found edgar here too!!!!!!!! what do we do!!!!!!!!

[katyahina]

BOINKKKKKKKKKKK

WAHOOOOOOOOOOOOO

"In NO corner of this wretched Nightmare can I hide from him..."

[demons-fanatic]

The Choir: Chloral Madmen or Misguided Fools?

Spoilers for Bloodborne below for the entire post:

So, for my first lore post here, I wanted to keep it within the season. Believe it or not, the Choir is quite a scary prospect of Yharnam when you look at it in depth. First of all, what is the job of the Choir? As their set states outright: “Members of the Choir are both the highest-ranking clerics of the Healing Church, and scholars who continue the work that began at Byrgenwerth.“ This means the choir continues in Eldritch Knowledge and the pursuit of ascension in the path of Master Willem and not Laurence. The origin of the Choir is also explicitly stated with the Orphanage Key: “Key to the Orphanage, birthplace of the Choir. The Orphanage, shadowed by the Grand Cathedral, was a place of scholarship and experimentation, where young orphans became potent unseen thinkers for the Healing Church. The Choir, that would later split from the Healing Church, was a creation of the Orphanage.“ This explicitly tells us that the Choir are just Orphans who grew up and were taught to essentially experiment on people their whole lives, along with a lot of Eldritch Knowledge. If you’re wondering where the rest of the Choir is well, presumably they’re in the third floor of the Upper Cathedral Ward main building. It’s a fact that some of them are there, given that singing can be heard, arias specifically. These aria’s are supposed to be religious-like thing, given by the Rosmarinus’ description: “A special weapon used by the Choir, high-ranking members of the Healing Church. Sprays a cloud of sacred mist, created by using blood-imbued Quicksilver Bullets as a special medium. Arias are heard wherever sacred mist is seen, proving that the mist is a heavenly blessing.

‘Oh, fair maiden, why is it that you weep?’”  It is seen as something of the heavens, the heavens being something the Choir, or really the church believe in. These heavens might be the Nightmare realms in the other planes of existence. The mist is made from Quicksilver Bullets, aka Mercury and Mercury in Bloodborne deserves its own post but it’s essentially Mercury gas, in which Oedon loves Mercury. The last line “Oh, fair maiden, why is it that you weep?” this maiden is the Great One below in the cave, but we’ll get to her later. Now, what do the Choir do? Well, they experiment on people to, as Fauxsefka puts it “Surpassing our own stupidity.” these experiments create Kin. These experiments are the Celestial Emissaries. And why are they called “Emissaries” well, it’s presumable they are used to contact Great Ones. How do we know this? Well, they drop communion. The boss does anyways. Meaning that they have contacted a higher truth. All the places we find communion, minus +5 vials, is in relation to some sort of religious place/person. Where communion has or could take place. 

The Choir also is said to now be separated from the Healing Church itself and with this they have just become a separate name. They are still apart of it, just not the Healing Church conglomerate. This means that the Choir gets their “patients” from the Church who of course, just kidnap Yharnamites. Another faction that has separated from the church is the School of Mensis, who preform a similar function to the choir, but they do not experiment on people in the same way, their wish is though, is to reach Kos and end the Curse of Hunters. The Choir is very suspicious of the School, sending a spy, Edgar to the school in hopes of sharing secrets, though, due to the Mensis ritual, he got stuck in the Nightmare Realm. The choir’s suspicions aren’t for naught though, Mensis is doing something and killed an entire village to try and create an artificial Great One, which worked half-way.

Another aspect of the Choir to note is their clothing. Which the cap is the most interesting part. “Attire of the Choir, high-ranking members of the Healing Church. Members of the Choir are both the highest-ranking clerics of the Healing Church, and scholars who continue the work that began at Byrgenwerth. Together with the left behind Great One, they look to the skies, in search of astral signs, that may lead them to the rediscovery of true greatness.“ This states that the Choir outfits are inspired by Willem, why they choose not to see is a common concept. It’s not rare in Yharnam to cover ones eyes so that you can gain eyes on the inside and ascend. Their attire looks very special and like Choir wear, nothing special there but it is apart of the Choir.

Another interesting part of the Choir is their tools. Their tools include: Rosmarinus, Choir Bell, A Call Beyond and Augur of Ebrietas. Minus the Rosmarinus, they are all Arcane items. Meaning they are understood by few, but they also incorporate, for the lack of a better word, magic in their use. The Choir Bell is based on a larger bell that can send a sound across multiple planes of existence. This one just uses its sound to raise vigor/heal someone. A Call Beyond was created when the Healing Church failed to contact the greater Cosmos using Phantasms, but instead summoned a small exploding star. Finally, the Augur of Ebrietas uses a similar tactic to A Call Beyond. It uses a phantasm but it uses it to partially summon Ebrietas, using one of her tentacles to shoot out of ones hand. All of these weapons use the cosmos and are the latter two are considered secrets, for good reason. They do use it in combat, Yurie, Fauxsefka and Edgar all use it. Along with Micolash(Who would’ve been apart of the Choir but split in Mensis). 

Another thing the Choir is continuously said to do is look at the sky or mention how the sky is one with the Cosmos. This, of course, is also something they most likely took from Willem as when we find him in Byrgenwerth, he is literally staring at the sky forever. Doing this seemingly does do something as Willem is growing some sort of Fungus on his neck which isn’t natural. He’s also lost his ability to speak in a normal human tongue. Though, the Choir either haven’t done it long enough or as expected, have just used other methods to achieve this. Of course, the experiments are these ways. Once you understand that in this world that these Gods exist, you’re either afraid or in awe. How the people of Bloodborne even figured out you can transcend is beyond me, but. They figured it out and now they wish to do so. Multiple ways of doing it have been shown in the game whether it be drinking God Blood, Water, Eating Organs or becoming too Enlightened. And all of this, as we know are connected to Aliens. Beings from Space. There is a reason the Moon Presence is called the Moon Presence after all, did she come from the Moon? Who knows, but she always descends from it, meaning she is not from Earth and comes from space. Not to mention some aspects of the Choir magic as listen above are well, space related. Stars. Yes, it is strange they just realized that the sky leads into space but it helps in the fact they most definitely worship the moon a lot. Hell, they even have statues of the Moon Presence.

These can be found in Lumenflower Gardens and most definitely suggest that the Choir worship or really appreciate her in which one makes sense over the other. With this, and other descriptions, the Choir are really obsessed with the Moon, in the same theme of the Lumenflower Gardens, the flowers open in full Moonlight. We also know the church has always participated in rituals with a Great One, mostly the Moon. So this obsession with space, Great Ones, it’s all religious. It’s sacred, holy, divine, etc... This isn’t surprising of course, all Great Ones are considered Gods. The Choir themselves have a connection to one of these Gods, Ebrietas.

Now, since we are talking about the Choir and Isz and Ebrietas are apart of the Choir, I will 1. Talk about them as if they are the same(Isz less so) and 2. Go into full detail about them. 

First off we have Isz, a land that the Choir themselves consider to be in touch with the Cosmos. It is a land that is filled with Moon Larvae(Most likely where most of the ones in Upper Cathedral Ward come from) Celestial Emissaries and other Kin. It’s infested with a blue hue and arcane tree roots. This of course, going along with the themes of Bloodborne proves that well, all of this has already played out. Isz has already done what the Choir has done, the Choir is just repeating Isz. There’s even a human(or Pthumerian; Iszian?) who has become a Great One, but we’ll get to her later. But yes, this is just proof everything is repeating, like Loran and Yharnam. It is also notable that Isz houses most Great Ones we see as bosses, which brings to effect 1. These Chalices are Pocket Dimensions, Rom has no place being here. 2. These Chalices are existing so the Great Ones shall keep their forms stored so they cannot die, they can revert back to their other form and regenerate so to speak and then come back. Isz just seems to possibly be the main hub for that. Regardless, that is Isz. And relation to the Choir, well, they found the chalice and explored it and then came into contact with Ebrietas.

Now we have Ebrietas, Daughter of the Cosmos. She is called a Great One in many places, but is she? Well, it’s confusing. All true Great Ones bleed red, like Humans. But, all Kin bleed White, Mercury. But, what does Ebrietas bleed? Red and White. What does Rom bleed? Red and White. What is Rom? A Human who has transformed into a failed Great One. From the previous paragraph, we established cycles in Bloodborne. This isn’t a joke or false, this is true. Think about it; Loran, Old Yharnam and now Yharnam all were infected by the Beast Plague. It happens again and again. Isz and now the Choir, it’s happening again and again. The Fishing Hamlet and now Mensis with Mergo, again and again. If this isn’t proof, well, I don’t know what to tell you. This is even more explicit than Dark Souls. Anyways, along with this would be another failed attempt at a Great One, right? Well, of course, why couldn’t it? Ebrietas is like Rom, she can cast her own magic and looks like a Great One. Anyways, take that theory with what you will. So, what does Ebrietas do in our current story? Well, she was found in Isz by the Choir. It’s said she was left behind, if you believe my theory you’ll know why. She’s not like the others, she cannot ascend to other planes like the others can because she’s not full, so to speak. So, she was found and luckily for the Choir, she wanted to coexist with humans. Why she does isn’t known but, she soon became a thing for the Choir to study, but presumably they did nothing bad to her and even gained a good relationship with her. She stays in a cave below the Grand Cathedral, called the “Altar of Despair” and currently she’s weeping over a dead corpse of a giant Spider. 

And, this is where I deviate from current lore to cut content, well. See, that Giant Spider is Rom. It’s honestly, should I say an extremely bad mess up, like really, really bad. Because in current game, it makes no sense. This giant spider that looks like Rom is here but it’s not really Rom? And you can reverse Annalise’s death here? What? Well, if you want to know, it’s Rom and the Altar used to be below Byrgenwerth, Rom would fall and then Ebrietas would be sad her “sister” is dead. There’s also a cutscene associated with her corpse, but nevertheless, there we go. You might be asking, “Why is this important” well, there’s no good explanation for it other than to explain why it’s there when the area was being developed.

But that’s the end of the rant, so the Choir are children who have been raised to experiment on people and elevate humanity. Of course, they aren’t the only ones who do so but they definitely are making progress. If you read all the way through, thank you! Feedback and RB’s are appreciated!

[katyahina]

Edgar's 'spyoning' situation (theory)

Oh boy oh boy, here I go making theories again. It has been a while... *grinds dry lumenwood into dust and inhales it for more Insight* So, I was able to piece together some evidence but consider it an alternative take to commonly accepted one rather than definitive thing!

Okay, so:

As @saint-micolash already pointed out in discussion in this ( x ) post, despite what is easy thing to assume, other people in the ritual room are not 'other scholars', they are the captives! Notice that their cages are only four bars tall and they are missing uniforms, however have cuffs and even metal collars with chains on their neck!

We by the result cannot say whether other Mensis Scholars existed or how many, maybe Micolash and Damian were the only ones. ...or maybe, since they are refered as 'madmen', there were some other ones but they are long now killed by Micolash and Damian simply got away before he "expired his use".

Okay OKAY sorry I am sidetracking!

But my point is, it was probably very hard if possible at all to simply 'blend in' amongst other scholars with his outfit as disguise of sorts. Not only there is no evidence of there having been more scholars than just Micolash and Damian, but also sending Edgar over in a disguise would have to be done under assumption that he could blend in to the point of not being noticed.

My cornerstone therefore would be assuming that his spyoning was an act - he would allow himself to get "captured" and quickly make himself useful and pretend to naturally agree and cooperate with School of Mensis, knowing what to say to make it seem legit!

There is no dead body anywhere in Yahar'gul to display Edgar being in the ritual too, so if he was to get into Nightmare of Mensis from that point - he'd have to survive the ritual and then get there through touching Micolash's corpse, like how our hunter does. However, things might be even more interesting.

(Screenshots help from @majitek and @saint-micolash because I cannot play game and take screenshots rn)

Okay you got the idea, this is the corpse where Lecture Theatre key is picked from, dressed in Black Church hunter outfit! So, not a teacher. Ack, maybe hat lacks because it is overused model and they trid to avoid clipping, but whatever. I'd assume Yurie (and possibly Fauxsefka too) had some escort with them, which makes sense, it is too dangerous to go through Forbidden Woods alone.

(Screenshots help by @cuddlefish-fish )

These are some more, notably, one in Black Church garb too but the second one is in normie Yharnam Hunter garb. I think these people must have gotten here through secret passageway in Iosefka's Clinic! Think about it - what is the purpose of that secret way if there is Gatekeeper that has password every Church person must know ('Fear the Old Blood')? Well, perhaps "forbidding" Byrgenwerth was just a convenient lie so nobody would pry on the secrets of the Healing Church and where Old Blood really originated from! So they'd had to uphold illusion of not going there, but actually were using secret way.

The thing is? Edgar might have been amonst these people.

Lecture Hall is connected with Nightmare of Mensis and currently it is not possible to access Lecture Hall from Byrgenwerth area, but we do not know for how long that was the case!

(Excerpts from here ( x ) by Last Protagonist)

The last note nitpicked is interesting as in Japanese original it does not seem to outright imply Willem, it might refer to Oedon after all as he is indeed invisible/unencounterable, he is a voice! Rom is indeed consealing the ritual but as well everything else - like Amygdalae - so maybe that includes drowning Oedon's voice out too, especially considering where this note is found. It is a bit important back to back with the fact that Willem himself 'hid a secret in the lake', so more likely that Oedon Chapel note does not mean Rom is holding him hostage or something.

Screenshot help by @cuddlefish-fish again, who also pointed out to my attention how many of these Black Church hunters are over Nightmare of Mensis. These might very well be those that Patches lured into being snatched by Amygdala, but after our hunter survives abduction - Patches reveals they were meant as sacrifice to them, so saying they'd bring Church Hunters to Micolash is a bit of a stretch. Maybe they all just escaped and ended in Nightmare of Mensis through Nightmare Frontier, however some of them are pierced by Frenzy spears.

Okay one last bit, one last bit, trust me I am going somewhere:

Now let me try to lay my idea down with everything compiled! Okay so, we have - Byrgenwerth students 'still waiting' for Willem, Willem loving the look at the spot and having put Rom in there, Choir member(s) invading not alone but with at least some Black Church hunters, fact about Rom consealing 'all rituals' and not even THE ritual being known 'outside', Edgar being a spy of the Choir but unable to "blend in" back at Yahar'gul the way we like to think in memes, several Black Church hunters being in the Nightmare of Mensis with some Frenzied, Edgar dropping sedatives that are cure created at Byrgenwerth, Shadows of Yharnam that are also enemies in Nightmare of Mensis guarding gate to Byrgenwerth and Micolash mentioning that the lake is "no longer visible"...

Okay now imagine:

Rather than getting into Nightmare of Mensis through Yahar'gul, Edgar accessed it through Byrgenwerth! The passageway between 'reality' and Nightmare was not always blocked - back then one could jump into the Lake and BAM, Lecture Hall! Hidden from the n00bs. So Yurie and Fauxsefka were trying to send some low ranking Black Church hunters to scout the place, but they would all end up wandering into Micolash through Lecture Hall and those who survived to tell about it revealed some insane things before their eventual death.

So, while other scholars still have not quite became all slugs yet were instructed to 'stay away from the door', they were able to send Edgar under the guise of wayward scholar! He was prepared, being a good actor and packed with sedatives, and he could suppose what to say to play it cool and survive the encounter. Since Yurie is 'the last scholar' she probably was one of them too once, so I imagine she could fill Edgar in about Micolash, having known him before. Could have been Damian, too - he is a summon in Byrgenwerth and does not seem to be on the side of Micolash anymore... But these are just realms of further possibility. In either case Edgar was a very smart (and very brave) man and ventured in!

* It also might shortcut the explanation as to why there is Iosefka's blood vial in the Nightmare of Mensis - if they were friends passing through her clinic (at least until Fauxsefka lost her screws), maybe she simply gifted it to Edgar into adventure. It depends on what one wants to do with her, though.

But eventually Edgar broke under Micolash's influence. He must have a huge charisma as a Cult leader! Edgar did his best but only could have lasted for so long before breaking and, perhaps, ratting his true endeavors out. He acts very genuine in trying to kick our Hunter's ass, for Micolash. I like to think Micolash knew from the very start Edgar was not just an ordinary scholar and was secretly manipulating him.

Now with all found out, Micolash did something so the lake could no longer lead anyone to him - sending some Shadows of Yharnam over to block the way in and out, as one last gesture. The lake was "no longer visible", no longer the portal! Was probably some arcane water manipulation, maybe even aid from Kos herself. If she hates humanity, would not protecting ritual further aid that? So, water manipulation upon lake it is...? Maybe! And scholars did not have chance to evacuate, nobody could foresee that Lecture Hall and the main way to Byrgenwerth get split for good.

Perhaps Yurie and Fauxsefka got stuck for a long time in the place, until closer to the game events night, but notice the lack of Celestial Emissaries in Byrgenwerth - ones that Fauxsefka creates! She seems to be turning people into Kin so they don't have to become beasts instead which Yurie might not have agreed to. Choir operates differently but maybe Yurie was still more aligned with Willem's ways - something Fauxsefka eventually gave up on and ditched.

Interestingly, there is Cainhurst invitation found on the side of Iosefka's Clinic she invaded from, she also can create "secret" Cainhurst potions, and only her and Annalise mention 'moon scent' to our Hunter. Maybe she had means to 'pass' through Shadows of Yharnam as a vileblood and therefore 'their' person, leaving Yurie unable to chase her as Shadows would be too much for her. Or maybe she did not want to as protecting Rom was more important anyways?

---------------

I also want to give special thanks to @val-of-the-north because HE pointed my head towards random corpses in Byrgenwerth being maybe not so random and needing a closer look, and this is how I started to loredig this interesting bit! And to @saint-micolash because that single discussion and his remarks became a cornerstone of how I see School of Mensis now. Though overall I am very happy that this fandom is so helpful to my PS4-less ass, thank you so much guys for sharing screens and stuff!

Again, everything is only in the realm of possibility and could have stopped back in Yahar'gul, but I just thing everything is more tied together this way. And explains Mico's weird line about the lake...?