#noticed while discussing them w my roommate so thats cool

[bisexuallsokka]

this blog turns 4 years old today which is an insane thing to think about

[patchdotexe]

So, I have a character who is a system, and I wanted to know before I develop them further, how does DID work, from a personal account? I really really really don't want to accidentally create yet another TOXIC misinterpretation of a real condition (because I know how horrible that can feel), and I hope I'm not saying anything wrong even now. (P.S. I love your blog, but I'm too shy to come off anon.)

hey anon!! it means a LOT to me that you sent this message :D theres a lot of really messy-bad potrayals of DID in the media so seeing people actually going to the effort of asking systems abt their experiences is really heartwarming for us. (plus the fact that ppl keep asking us in specific abt system stuff omg,,)

im gonna preface this by saying that, in the end, i can only really talk about my own experiences with full confidence. systems can work pretty differently from each other, but this is how we function and also some details ive noticed from system friends + general discussion over the years

so, to start off: Dissociative Identity Disorder is, at its core, your brain trying to respond to trauma in a pretty severe way. that being said there ARE systems that didnt experience severe trauma and still developed, and im not really sure about the mechanics behind that but i find it really cool and it totally exists. im gonna focus on trauma-based systems bc that’s our ~tragic backstory~ and also tends to be what most people opt for when creating system characters anyway, but the only real difference from what i can tell is, uh, a lack of trauma.

I HOPE YOU’RE READY FOR ME TO SAY THE WORD “TRAUMA” A WHOLE LOT JFC

(system friends are welcome to reblog with corrections or added info!!)

anyway. the way your brain responds to things is really weird. if something happens where you’re just, like, completely unable to handle it, like you dissociate yourself so hard because there’s no way you can manage this, your brain has a chance of going “uh… well, fuck, uh” and generating somebody who can manage it. or it might decide to be a dick and take all of the fucky internalized garbage and turn it into a person whose sole existence is to be an asshole. (they have the potential to get better, i think… ours didnt.) honestly theres a bunch of reasons and a bunch of “roles” that could lead to an alter/headmate* forming.

* we use the terms interchangeably depending on mood and whos fronting. i think its supposed to be “alter” is DID, “headmate” is implication that theyre non-traumatic? we like using “headmate” because it brings this fun mental image of us being a bunch of roommates constantly starting shit with each other and goofing off which is pretty accurate about 75% of the time

i keep getting distracted bc my cat is here. this is gonna be fun to go back and edit.

whatever the original situation is, you’re suddenly not alone in your own brain. and it’s REALLY WEIRD. communication was VERY hard. Icarus, our system original, used to do a very “cliche” thing of sharing a journal with their early headmates, where theyd write a sentence and then theyd write a reply (although back then they didnt realize that was a system-related thing and just thought they were having a fun conversation with their ocs. which… they were, just. Actually Talking.) they didnt have any inward perception of themself or their headmates either, so that kinda built up over time (with some help) along with the appearance of our headspace so that there was… actually a location for people to interact in. once they had a better awareness of things, mental communication got a bit easier– its sort of like background chatter really, when everybody’s awake. sometimes i get weird out of context things from Mae yelling at somebody, or sometimes ill be talking to a friend and someone’ll butt in.

when talking out loud, this usually leads to us suddenly stopping and then laughing or going “no!!!”. when on discord and around people who know who we are… well.

speaking of Mae, she’s pretty much my sister. not like… biologically? because i don’t think thats possible for me, but shes kinda literally my “other half” which ill get into later. headmates can have strong attachments to other alters! friends, best friends, family, dating, whatever. they can also do that with people outside the system, and itll be different for each headmate. there’s like 4 people dating Jorb but i just see him as one of my best friends. we’re people and we have complex social interactions that can get to be kind of a nightmare when you’re around a bunch of people who don’t know that you’re Not Leo and that youre suddenly not super up to existing around people in general.

plus even if like… so Jorb’s dating 4 of us like i said, but his relationship w/ each of them is different? Ica is very clingy and likes rambling to him, Summer’s pretty much just always happy to hang out, Mae makes fun of him a lot but in a loving way, and Leo is… kinda “all of the above” because that’s his gimmick. plus even tho a few other alters have a sibling-ish relationship with Mae like i do, usually its just me and Mae that do the “chaos siblings” bit.

the basic system.. thing… is that there’s “front”, which is being in control of the body– so, like, i’m currently fronting/in front, because im the one currently active and using our computer and staring at our cat.– and then theres the headspace, where everybody hangs out when theyre not in front. the headspace itself can differ in style & functionality for each system, and i think theres some systems that dont really have a location at all? but for us its like a full on location where we have individual rooms, places to visit if we get bored while away from front, etc.

theres also like, being at/near/away from front? so currently im in front, but Leo is pretty much always lurking nearby if he’s awake (we have individual sleep schedules that dont always sync up to the “irl” one, Trust is almost always sleeping), Ica’s somewhat in the back talking to Rookie so i cant really make out what theyre saying (its probably about either a youtube thing they both like or about a comic they want to do), and everyone else is either asleep (in which case they could be nearby but i cant currently “ping” them, so id have to actually take a sec to ground myself in headspace more) or in a different room. communication is easier if im in front and somebody is nearby, or it can be like with Ica rn where im like “well, theyre talking, but i have no idea what theyre saying and am making a guess based off their usual interactions”, or i could pass off front to go talk to Ica and come back (in which case my memory would be kind of vague and weird because information doesnt always properly translate), oooor i could actually go bug them while still in front. which.. im not gonna do rn bc then id get super distracted.

switching front differs between systems a lot! and even varies from day to day. like there are days where we wake up and we have absolutely no idea who we are bc we went to bed as one person and woke up as another. or we could be talking to somebody and then realize “wait, i stopped being Leo a bit ago, who am i”. or we could pass off front to somebody, like if Summer really wanted to front sie’d run up to me and let me know and we’d swap. or if something critical happens (usually a breakdown), Leo or one of the other headmates that’re more built to handle stressful situations will literally drag somebody out of front to make sure they dont hurt themself. or sometimes we throw front at people unexpectedly, like either mid-breakdown where we go “okay i dont wanna be here anymore, tag youre it” or sometimes because we think its funny because its the metaphysical equivalent of getting clonked in the head with a dodgeball, except the dodgeball is “being in control of our shared physical form”. usually mae’s the one that does that lmao

there’s a couple major categories of how alters come about. there’s “walk-ins”, where they kinda just… appear externally? like they just show up. sometimes we get a feeling of “huh. i think somebody might be here? or somebody might be showing up soon.” and have to rummage around for a while until they approach us or we find them. our walk-ins aren’t like, inherently aware of system stuff at first, so they usually get a crash course before they first front (if they choose to front at all) and it can be kinda entertaining. Rookie’s a walk-in! also Hiro, from a couple years ago. most of our walk-ins are fictives (fictional characters, usually appearing in response to us getting extremely attached to something or somebody) but a couple of our trauma splits are also fictives so that’s not like, a Rule or anything. i think these are mostly associated with non-traumatic systems but we get em fairly often so man idk

theres also… uh, i dunno what theyre actually called? we used to call them “constructs” but that sounds kind of mean. these alters exist to fill a specific role! and we usually dont talk about them on here with the exception of one major one, they just kinda hang out. Dhe exists to keep the system stable and manages the “backend” so to speak. Imp is kind of a mix of our intrusive & impulsive thoughts that came about from us trying to separate ourself from them so that we had an imaginary entity to go “nope!” at, which… stopped being imaginary, and is now a gremlin that lives in my brain. they can show up in response to trauma but arent split off of somebody, they kinda just pop into existence to help manage things.

the more… well-known, i guess? alter origin is “trauma splits”. rather than “just showing up one day with no real connection to the system origins”, trauma splits are formed when somebody in-system, uh, splits. it could be in response to a single situation or something built up over a long time, but somebody just kinda breaks and somebody new that has a bit of the original alter’s identity (if kinda influenced by the situation) shows up.

this can vary. All is a trauma split off of Leo himself, who got saddled with all of our brain hell about our ex and their insystem appearance is influenced more by eir than by leo which is… something they struggle with. Mae has a trauma split from a similar situation that is “Mae but from 2 years ago”, so basically her old identity before she reworked herself after getting put through total hell. and then uh… then there’s me and Mae! Icarus quite literally exploded into several people, with Pat (me) and Mae being the most distinct ones. we’re STILL finding out alters used to originally be a part of them that later evolved into their own people, like Summer and Toby. my identity is shaped pretty heavily not just by who Ica was at time of splitting, but also what they wanted to be jumbled together with trying to rationalize what was happening to them (they’re a pretty big fan of megaman star force, which has a media-typical system in it, so they leaned into hard “its like pat and rey from mmsf! i like pat, i wouldnt mind being like pat, its scary but im like one of my current favourite characters” and so i ended up being like, half-weird shapeshifter, half-green-haired prettyboy. and yeah thats where my name comes from!)

(Ica got put back together w/o anybody needing to integrate, which we were all very scared about, and it’s still kind of surreal to me because… me and Mae used to be able to stick ourself back together and thats how we found out about what happened to Ica in the first place? and we havent tried that since bc we have no idea what would happen. Ica 2: Ica Harder?)

despite their origins, trauma splits can be way more than… being a split. :V;; Toby’s not just a tiny splinter of Ica, he’s a quiet guy that gets stressed out and isn’t totally sure how to interact with people. i’ve existed for like 7 years at minimum and im a totally different person than i was when i thought i was still Ica, ‘cause ive had time to grow and change (and a problem Ica keeps running into now that theyre back is… they kinda Didn’t change because they were MIA for 6 years.) like everything else though this is variable– there can be “temporary” splits that dont develop properly and might get integrated back in, which has only happened to us when we were at the lowest point in our life where we were stuck constantly splitting to try and cope with whatever the hell was going on.

so Ica was gone for 6 years, which meant our system was without an original or main– there wasn’t anybody to be head of the system, basically. for a while i was operating under the assumption that i was Ica, so i filled in that role for a few years before i made the realization. eventually i kinda… stopped being able to, though, bc of stability issues, and then we were back to not really having a proper main anymore. to make up for it, we started going by Leo collectively and kinda… trying to pretend to be a single person? and so that ended up creating a construct to fill the role of “system main and the person we pretend to be when passing as singlet/not a system”: Leo himself! he’s kinda the most prominent traits we all have in common rolled into a single guy, which means that not only is he a pretty good system representative but we can also pretend to be him pretty easily (unless it’s someone like Toby who acts totally different). i dont know how common this situation is, i think normally it’s just “if system original is gone, another alter steps up” like originally happened to us before i had a severe case of problems disorder.

uhhh this is very rambley bc there’s a Lot to cover and now im trying to figure out how much of it i HAVE covered. systems are complicated and weird! OH WAIT okay i have one last bit.

so like, for us, first realizing we were a system was total hell. we fought a lot. as more alters showed up through various means, there were times where Ica felt like they were completely out of control of their own life bc of having to manage everything. there were a lot of panic attacks of people fronting and not being sure they were even REAL, despite… being in front. but we still felt like we were deluding ourself. this was in, like, late 2011, so systems weren’t a THING. they were a very fringe community that everyone hated. we got constantly harassed, which only fed into Ica’s panic hell and our identity issues. interpersonal relationships became a nightmare, especially because we have BPD as well which varies in severity for each of us but… for me it’s pretty bad! there were times early on where every day was another fun new breakdown from us arguing with each other or our friends or not being understood or… etc.

so… how are we holding up ~7 and a half years later? pretty well, actually! we talk to each other. we do things for each other, like buy food or games we know specific headmates like. Ica is back and way happier than they were in 2011, and is thrilled to get to hang out with everybody that’s showed up since. we help each other through problems, because at the end of the day our system ended up being a support network. Ica couldnt function on their own, so we’re like… 10+ people working together to try and be a single functional person. and we feel pretty okay with that! we still fight, and we still start shit, but we’re not in constant crisis anymore. we’re still working through all of our trauma, especially the more “recent” stuff that kinda broke our system for a while until we were able to start rebuilding, but we’re doing it together. :D

so… yeah, it can start out as a stereotypical “nightmare system”, with constant infighting and toxicity and self-sabotage and etc. but we worked through it! it took a while, but we’re overall more stable than we were before. we got out of the bad environment that was fucking us up, we got mental help for our other brain hell (we havent been able to bring up the system to our therapists bc its literally a non-issue now and we focus more on other things like our depression, anxiety, PTSD, etc), we found people that support us for being us, and we were able to like… figure things out. and it was a mess! i still have issues about my own identity because of literally thinking i was someone else for two years. Ica’s still trying to figure out how to adjust to things, especially bc they missed our entire “cringe culture” phase so they came back to find that i’d dismantled a lot of their middle-school settings. and, uh, some of their friendships as well.

systems are fuckin weird

[reactingtosomething]

Reacting to Sweet/Vicious

Part I: Remember Fondly When 4th Meals Were a Thing and Breakfast at Night Reigned Supreme

The Setup: It started, as much does, with a tweet. That tweet was followed, as many are, by regret. Fortunately, Jennifer Kaytin Robinson is a generous sort.

Robinson’s glorious but short-lived vigilante dramedy Sweet/Vicious was always on the list of candidates for an all-hands Reaction -- Miri started watching a day or two after Kris did, back in the fall, so Liz and Marchae added it to their (lengthy) to-watch lists -- but we didn’t put a timetable on it until our loyal reader @crazyhannibalthedaisiesslayer suggested it.

In this post (and its continuation, on Friday), we cover the first three episodes: “The Blueprint,” “The Writing’s on the Wall,” and “Sucker,” and many thoughts and feelings about campus sexual violence and related topics.

LIZ: First thing: I only had time to watch the first 3 episodes, although I wish I’d been able to see more!

Kris you here?

MIRI: Ok, that’s how many I rewetted!

MARCHAE: I watched 4

KRIS: GOSH DARN IT

MIRI: DAMMIT rewatched 

hahahahahha insert gif here

So, Liz and Marchae, what did you think????

MARCHAE: It is oddly addicting

KRIS: Why oddly?

MARCHAE: I think because I used to work in student affairs and dealt with some of the scenarios so in that way it is weird to see a comedy/drama of this topic

LIZ: I am IN LOVE. I thought episode one was amazing and I am pretty much hooked. I am here for the message and the premise and i think every college campus needs these 2 ladies!

MARCHAE: however the characters are 100% engaging and you want them to win so hard...

I called my mom after episode one and was like should i feel bad for wanting to see the guys get beat up

LIZ: The way they show the victims of sexual assault and discuss their stories is just so real even though the show suspends our disbelief in other ways so much

MIRI:  Marchae, I don’t think you should feel bad

How do you feel about how stylized it is? I love it, but I feel like it’s not going to be everyone’s cup of tea

LIZ:  Rapists who are getting away with it 100% and ruining their victims lives? no I would not feel bad

KRIS: When I first saw trailers for it (while my old roommates watched MTV reality shows) I was like oh, man, I don’t know, this seems like it might be trashy and exploitative

MARCHAE:  I do agree Lizzie... it’s weird because my brain wants this to be a straight drama

yet i am oddly satisfied with the moments of comedic relief

LIZ: I didn’t think the stylization was OVER THE TOP

MIRI: Yeah, it’s a hard show to sell but SO GOOD

LIZ: theres a lot of comedy

MIRI: I think it all works together beautifully

LIZ: agreed

I was pretty much in love

KRIS: I was almost upset at how good it was

MIRI: For me, the cold open of ep one says it all

KRIS: I had to text Miri immediately

LIZ: and then they were singing defying gravity in the car and i was like

KRIS: THERE’S A LEVERAGE WRITER

MIRI: You were definitely upset

KRIS: THE EMOTIONAL CLIMAX IS A WICKED SINGALONG

MIRI: THERE IS???

LIZ: yeah

like

MIRI: WHo?

KRIS: BRANDON MYCHAL SMITH FROM YOU’RE THE WORST

M Scott Veach

MIRI: Cool!

LIZ: oh end of sentence about defying gravity.. i felt like the show understood my soul

MIRI: Moment of appreciation for Brandon Mychal Smith playing SUCH a different type of comedy equally well

LIZ: ALSO.. it takes a certain type of weird ass show for all 4 of us to be VERY on board.. and I also like that about it

KRIS: He’s one of the only men who can say the word “bitch” and not make me a little uncomfortable

MIRI: True!

hahahahaha

LIZ: Is that Harris?

MIRI: Yes!

KRIS: Yeah

LIZ: I LOVE HIM

MIRI: Yay!

KRIS: One of the reasons I really wanted us to do 3 episodes was so you could see the start of his thing with Fiona

LIZ: What do you think about that?

MIRI: Is that the sorority girl?

KRIS: I like it!

Lemon as the one of us with the most first-hand sorority expertise what’s your general sense of the Zeta dynamic?

LIZ: I identify with the sorority characters who are actually smarter and much more .. defined as human beings than most would give them credit for or that they initially come off as

KRIS: (Harris gets crystallized so instantly with the line “I’m not saying I have sexual dreams about Ruth Bader Ginsberg... but I’m also not saying I don’t”)

LIZ: I mean.. I had several (male) friends and family members say to me when I joined my very small.. one of a kind local sorority.. “oh so you’re a sorostitute?”

MIRI: SUCH A LINE

LIZ: Yes i have a note about the RBG line

MIRI: UM that’s horrible and fuck them

LIZ: right, but that kind of mentality and characterization of college aged women who are friends with other women in the form of a sorority is so widespread

MIRI: The pilot honestly does SO much to characterize Jules, Ophelia, and Harris so quickly

KRIS: I do really like how they initially lean into the less generous expectations about sororities and then flesh out I think all of those characters in great ways

Mackenzie was a sleeper favorite for me

(the anxious redhead safety chair)

LIZ: this gives them facets.. like fuck what you thought about me and also.. I don’t have to not like to do my makeup or sometimes dress up for me to be a smart or valid female.

MIRI: I feel like Kennedy takes a little longer, but not in a bad way

Liz, you are amazing and I love you

LIZ: i don’t know many shows that give girls that kind of credit.. very legally blonde of this show..except Elle Woods was the exception there

MARCHAE: They have to save Kennedy (I say this not Having seen more than 4 epi)

KRIS: You will be pleased

MIRI: Definitely

LIZ: Visually, I am impressed with the shows set designs, makeup, and wardrobe

MARCHAE: I feel like they have to hold her close because of nick and Jules 

LIZ: hold who close?

oh kennedy

MARCHAE: (Also back to thumbs on the phone)

KRIS: I LOVE the world-building, especially on what I assume is a pretty small budget

MIRI: I do love her moment when Ophelia tells her she has a very calming presence and she’s just like “I know"

LIZ: yeah i am also worried about her

KRIS: Lemon talk about makeup

MIRI: Yeah!

LIZ: ITS EXPENSIVE

KRIS: (please)

LIZ: what else?

oh as far as this show is concerned

MIRI: yes, world building 

LIZ: Jules and Ophelia (yes to the names btw)

have such amazing looks and their hair is bouncy like they are comic book drawings, but their makeup isn’t like that (bc that would be fucking bizarre) and I love how the fresh rosy-cheeked and bright eyed look of Jules is enhanced with her makeup and Ophelia’s brows and eye makeup are dark and defined/ grungy at times, but she is also kind of sweet because they don’t cake her up or give her a heavy lip.. idk if that makes sense to anyone else

their eyes are so expressive as actresses

and then they’re important because of the ninja outfits

MIRI: That all makes sense to me and I would never have thought of it at all

KRIS: it is right on the edge of my comprehension

MIRI: Sidebar: SUPER excited for you to see more Orphan Black and discuss that makeup

LIZ: but I am pleased with the fine line between real world and cartoonish that the MUA on this show kind of stride beautifully to give them unique looks that foil one another and bring out their strengths and sometimes their faults

KRIS: Ophelia I think I understand best in this context

MARCHAE: YESS LIZ!!!

I do want to ask a question

LIZ: It is more subtle with Jules, because she is made to look more fresh, but I mean everyone on any show has lots of makeup on

ok done w makeup ranting/ observing

MIRI: What’s up, Marchae?

MARCHAE: *sorry liz...go on***

LIZ: oh no thats pretty much it

are you getting things in real time marchae? (with your computer)

MARCHAE: I wanted to chime in about wardrobe because it’s super similar to the way in which makeup is handled... and you definitely know who these people are and the kind of persons that this show is trying to share

MIRI: Ooh, please do!

LIZ: oh yes, the wardrobe feels almost theater like to me.. do you agree or am i wrong

MARCHAE: ( It was touch and go for a moment but me and my thumbs are finally #winning on the computer... I couldn’t take the tiny keyboard anymore)

LIZ: bless you for trying

MIRI: I never really notice Ophelia’s wardrobe that much, but the props they have for her are iconic and say so much

MARCHAE: I think it does... the show feels VERY comicbook-esq like I mentioned it reminds me very much in aesthetics to deadly class and there is another comic that focuses on a high school that I’m blanking on

LIZ: was this ever a graphic novel or comic book?

MARCHAE: but you get a lot in terms of wardrobe via colors that they use for these characters... Ophelia is almost always in darks, Jules in pinks and pastels

I quick checked and didn’t see it

KRIS: it was original to Jenn Kaytin Robinson

I mean she did a shit ton of research, and the producers watched The Hunting Ground and stuff

LIZ: nice..and yes I agree with the colors

MARCHAE: But these choices are interesting because they are almost opposite to the characters we meet in the show

LIZ: and the fact that Jules keeps her identity even as a vigilante with her pink backpack

MARCHAE: so Jules we meet as the original vigilante and she’s the one in the brightest colors ALWAYS in the show

LIZ: and then Ophelia has that car!

MARCHAE: that backpack is definitely our hint

MIRI: Because she’s trying SO hard to still be that girl

KRIS: Oh that’s so interesting. Jules is super dark and “damaged” and Ophelia’s ultimately a sweetheart.

MARCHAE: and Ophelia is always in darks

LIZ: right!?

MARCHAE: **taps nose at kris**

MIRI: I like that even when they put Jules in the Spitters are Quitters shirt, it’s light colored

MARCHAE: so its totally the opposite of what we see

in terms of how they are portrayed in their “normal life”

any who enough of my rant

LIZ: I find Ophelia to be much more innocent.. not because of being sexually assaulted, but because she is kind of playing catch up and barfs when she kills a guy and Jules obviously took this mission upon herself to become a kick ass fighter and to start doing something

MARCHAE: liz i absolutely agree

ophelia definitely the more innocent seeming of the two

KRIS: Ophelia’s so fucking great

MIRI: Yeah, Ophelia thinks of herself as So Hardcore but is basically a sweet 19 yr old with some abandonment issues

I love her

MARCHAE: and she tells you as much in her dialogue

LIZ: I love her!

MARCHAE: some is an understatement miri

KRIS: I loved the vomiting and I don’t even know why

MARCHAE: she has ALL the abandonment issues

LIZ: i loved that it was pink

MIRI: Because it’s pink!

KRIS: I guess the unexplained pink?

MARCHAE: the vomiting is AMAZINNNGNGGGGGGGGG

LIZ: yes

MIRI: It’s absurd and so totally the show

LIZ: hahahha

KRIS: wow we are ALL on a wavelength tonight

MIRI: But it is!

LIZ: like.. I don’t need to see chunky soup barf

i get it

MIRI: The show is 100% going to show you the puking

MARCHAE: i usually don’t want to see it at all period ever

but it works for the show

MIRI: But it’s also going to make it funny and stylized

MARCHAE: and that character as kind of a she seems hard core but is not!

OH OH

KRIS: LeBong James

MIRI: YES

MARCHAE: so my question and this was a thing that kind of made me curious

LEBONGGGGG

MIRI: She’s a nerd ❤️ 

LIZ: There is a lot of suspension of disbelief in this show.. not bc girls can’t fight injustices, but because of how they  should’ve gotten caught and how Ophelias mad hacker skills save the day alot

LEBONNNGGGGGGG

MIRI: I feel weird being the only one who hasn’t said LeBong

MARCHAE: (THEY MURDERED SOMEONE CLUMSILY AND CHICA BARFED ALL OVER THE SCENE!!!!DNA MUCH)

there it goes

LIZ: Also the male assailants aren’t even cookie cutter like on other shows or movies

MIRI: I KNOW BUT JUST GO WITH IT

KRIS: Without spoiling anything I’ll say they’re generally really good about chickens coming home to roost

Maybe not DNA specifically? But the show is serious about Consequences

MARCHAE: so question... what institution do they go to where there is an assult like every freaking second

LIZ: they are all different and some are even charming (most are) and they have different personalities and hobbies.. like Nate is acting like a really good boyfriend to Kennedy so if we didn’t know what he’s capable of, we’d forgive his jerk reaction to her missing his football thing bc of his super sweet apology

MIRI: Well, it’s Darlington University, right?

KRIS: Well A) that doesn’t actually strike me as unrealistic but B) I got the sense of a “backlog” of assaults -- they’re using that wall, which was started who knows how long ago

MIRI: So it’s at least big enough to have masters programs

KRIS: not responding to like the student weekly or something

MIRI: True

LIZ: i mean i know so many people in so many schools (large, small, medium and very small) who all have sexual assault stories

MARCHAE: thanks for the wall reminder

LIZ: i didn’t find the number to be at all shocking

KRIS: yeah

MARCHAE: I think maybe again its the dissonance of this being a drama/comedy that has me a bit jarred

LIZ: maybe the number of guys that were turned in or reported seems high, but SO FUCKING MANY are floating around in my mind right now

MARCHAE: i dealt with lots (more than i have ever wanted to) but not weekly by any stretch

that definitely doesn’t mean it wasn’t happening

MIRI: Well, just because the show aired every week doesn’t mean it’s only a week in universe

LIZ: right

thats true

MARCHAE: thanks gang

MIRI: And Kris is right--they definitely go into past exploits some

KRIS: That wall, man

MIRI: It is BRUTAL and so effective

MARCHAE: yeah the reminder of the wall definitely does it.... i literally was like

DAMN this is INSANE and darlington should be shut the hell down

KRIS: I texted Miri something like “I never do this but there’s a pure drama beat that made me 😭😭😭😭”

LIZ: I wish every college had a wall

KRIS: and it was definitely Ophelia handing Jules the Sharpie

MIRI: He did and I treasure that text

😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

LIZ: oh something that I meant to google.. could be such a coincidence

MARCHAE: UGHHHH

LIZ: at my college, in the same kind of font.. the party dorm/ suites were called “Reimert Hall” and they are like “see you at Leimert” spelled the same and then they show “Leimert Hall” and it is creepily spot on

KRIS: Huh

MIRI: Whoa 

LIZ: not related to the wall

separate

MARCHAE: we did have a question from one of our readers and I promised I would bring it up to react to

LIZ: lol.. it is student housing but.. idk weird to me but maybe not to anyone else

MIRI: Yes, I want to talk about that!!!

LIZ: go for it! I don’t know the question

MARCHAE: about student housing or the question from our loyal reader

i get confused sometimes

KRIS: our loyal reader

LIZ: I’m assuming she means from the reader

MIRI: The question

yes

MARCHAE: BWHA

sorry

LIZ: mine was just a point thrown out and doesn’t really leave much to comment on haha

MIRI: Share the question with us, Marchae

MARCHAE: OH MY GRIEF I  am typing then stop to read...

LIZ: I know.. Kris and Miri are too fast for me

MARCHAE: ok so the reader wants to know if we read Ophelia as bi

MIRI: Sorry!

KRIS: NO STOPPING the overlapping is half of our charm

MIRI: Omg Kris

LIZ: There was one thing that made me think that

MARCHAE: GO!

MIRI: Ok, I am deeply bi-ased (hahahahahah) so I want yawl to discuss it first

LIZ: hahaha

MARCHAE: STAP!

MIRI: 😉

MARCHAE: go lizzie

@miri you are my everything LOL

LIZ: Harris said something about her being with Jule (I’m having a brain fart and can’t remember if it is jules or rule..)

MARCHAE: her being with rules?

LIZ: and I think Ophelia was like “not like that” kind of blushing

jULE*

damnit

KRIS: For all of my striving toward wokeness I am generally still slow to pick up on, I guess, Sapphic vibes -- although being a social media-engaged Supergirl fan is training me better -- but I did also note that on my rewatch

LIZ: but it was a micro second kind of moment that made me think.. oh she dates girls too.. cool

so what do you think Kris

KRIS: This is pretty convincing to me:

http://wistfulwatcher.tumblr.com/post/154191025349/harris-has-most-definitely-seen-ofeefs-kissing-a

MIRI: Kris I offer my services if you ever need a consultant on this quest

LIZ: OHHH and PERSON yes thats smart

MARCHAE: AHHHHHHHHHHH

I didn’t even pick up on it!

MIRI: Ahhhhhhhh shit I didn’t even notice the person thing

MARCHAE: SWEET

i also think there is a lot of tension with Ophelia

MIRI: Ok, Reacting to Something officially rules Ophelia to be bi

Or pan, who knows

LIZ: I kind of also thought that was just a more interesting way of putting it..  like IS THERE A LIVE HUMAN JUST RIGHT THERE IN YOUR HOUSE?

MARCHAE: the writing and ACTING are smart like that

KRIS: And on my search for gifs to add to the post later, the scene in the cemetery -- “I think you’re amazing” -- seemed to be another touchstone

MARCHAE: yes!

MIRI: So when we got this question I was like “huh, are people seeing that?

Outside of shipping her and Jules?”

MARCHAE: but we also know that Ophelia doesn’t have friends

MIRI: But upon rewatch it’s pretty solidly set up

MARCHAE: so before the question i suspected that she was just kind of enjoying her new friendship with this person

LIZ: wait whats solidly set up

MARCHAE: she’s wanted that

LIZ: her being bi?

KRIS: yes

LIZ: just confirming

MARCHAE: then after the question we received not only did I pay more attention, but I think again there is definitely some tension

MIRI: I’m honestly so jaded from shows that like to dip their toe in the idea of something happening but will never go for it that I tend to only accept stated queerness

MARCHAE: and she might have a crush on jules!

MIRI: But it does feel very genuine and deliberate here

Which is lovely!

MARCHAE: agreed miri

LIZ: good!

K: consider it canon

KRIS: I think it was a writers room with only one straight man

LIZ: Im HERE FOR THAT

MARCHAE: That’s kind of awesome!

KRIS: (the past tense here kills me)

MIRI: I love it

UGhhhhhhhh I know

LIZ: wait

is it done?

forever

KRIS: I don’t think I’ve ever been so upset about a cancellation

LIZ: LAWD

MARCHAE: yup

LIZ: I CANT

KRIS: They’re shopping it to streaming sites

MIRI: Guys, sorry we’re making you fall in love with a cancelled show

LIZ: THIS FUCKING WEEK

MARCHAE: yeah i found out today

yeah

MIRI: OMG did we not tell you???

LIZ: *BREAK FOR EMOTIONAL BREAKDOWN*

MARCHAE: i was PISSED OFF

LIZ: NO

I DIDNT KNOW

MIRI: I’M SO SORRY!!!!!!!

MARCHAE: and like this is why I DON”T WATCH TV

LIZ: This is the devils week. why not this too!?

anyways

MARCHAE: LOLOL

LIZ: also.. good girls revolt was amazing (to me)

MIRI: I loved it!

MARCHAE: also can i just have my moment for the fact that this show also digs into the issue of racism

LIZ: why can’t bad bitches get a win? why

yes

MARCHAE: and handles it kind of nicely

KRIS: That scene was surprisingly upsetting

LIZ: super upsetting

KRIS: I love that it’s the cop we saw be nice to Jules

MIRI: Yes! Let’s talk about that froyo scene

It’s so well done

MARCHAE: reminded me of trayvon martin

MIRI: And the other cop recognizing that it’s wrong, but not stepping up enough to actually stop it

MARCHAE: i also love that is it harris?

LIZ: like he was being racially profiled.. but he also had the one good thing he was looking forward to smashed on the ground

MARCHAE: yup

LIZ: yeah just kind of being like “sorry, but this is kind of what we do, i won’t stop it”

MARCHAE: it is heartbreaking and realistic

KRIS: That younger cop also comes back

MIRI: I’m glad that they played it very seriously

LIZ: ooo

MARCHAE: I was glad that he didn’t want to be seen as only one kind of black when he fought back with the paper editor as well

KRIS: This show has a really deep bench of minor-ish supporting characters

MARCHAE: they better had!

KRIS: MM I think that’s episode 4

On a lighter note I also really appreciate the importance of froyo to the world-building of this college town

LIZ: yes I’m not familiar

MARCHAE: YES

MIRI: Froyo continues to matter

As does pizza

MARCHAE: and dairy queen soft serve

LIZ: In college, we would plan a whole trek to froyo (we got one a few min away my senior year)

MARCHAE: GURL

MIRI: We once drove to Waffle House at 4 am in the snow

In South Carolina

KRIS: From earlier than I remembered, too -- Ophelia running away from Barton and running into a guy carrying a cup -- “Tart?!”

MIRI: where they can’t handle snow

KRIS: YES the pizza place

MIRI: Huh? What is the cup thing?

KRIS: of froyo

LIZ: Food culture in college .. is something very important and lets think abouthtat

MIRI: OHHHH

KRIS: Ophelia has no patience for Basic things, clearly

MIRI: Also that running away scene is great

LIZ: and by think of that .. I mean.. remember fondly when 4th meals were a thing and breakfast at night reigned supreme.

MIRI: Ophelia has a lot of opinions and I have a lot of feelings about her

KRIS: (I love Jules’s “I like sunsets on Instagram”)

LIZ: ophelia is hilarious.. i love her comment “she’s literate”

KRIS: Ophelia’s ramen diet

MARCHAE: LOL

LIZ: and also that girl [Fiona] trying to be sexy and saying “there are no drapes” so seriously

MIRI: Yeah I definitely want to see that girl eat a vegetable

LIZ: and giving up and being  like “IM SHAVED” ahaha

KRIS: Lemon I laughed so loud at “She’s literate?” on my rewatch

MIRI: I love that girl!

MARCHAE: there are a ton of one liners

LIZ: yeah the popcorn for breakfast made even me feel like OH HONEY NO NUTRIENTS

KRIS: So real

MARCHAE: that’s usually my breakfast on sundays after i mop

LIZ: miri what are your many opinions about ophelia

MARCHAE: and i’m old

MIRI: WAIT

LIZ: my dogs eat better than I do so I get it

MIRI: Marchae eat real meals please I worry

LIZ: and you mop before you eat

MARCHAE: yes almost every sunday

MIRI: Ok back to my many opinions: as stated I LOVE HER

LIZ: i had a banana, fake chicken, vegan pasta and granola today.. that is kind of healthy

MIRI: I also really love her need to belong

MARCHAE: i eat popcorn, drink a pepsi and catch up on my shows

LIZ: her need to belong to who or what

KRIS: just in general

LIZ: I guess I am really new

MARCHAE: YES

KRIS: to have friends, to have a cause

MIRI: She’s obsessed with the idea that she’s this cool fuckup who doesn’t need people, but she needs people so MUCH

LIZ: I get that

MARCHAE: its evident from episode one almost immediately

LIZ: we all do! even when we aren’t good at.. people!

MIRI: She jumps head first into this insane vigilante thing

LIZ: MARCHAE

MIRI: and kicks it into a higher gear

LIZ: STOP DRINKING SODA

MARCHAE: i think it makes her so relatable too and you fall in love with her

LIZ: IT WILL KILL YOU

MARCHAE: (mostly only on SUNDAY AFTER MOPPING but WITH POPCORN)

LIZ: I know, she is the perfect.. not robin.. robin

MIRI: She hurts Harris so easily but would be devastated if she actually lost him

LIZ: yeah i love her apology scene to him

MARCHAE: but he loves her no matter what

MIRI: She thinks she’s beyond needing that sort of connection because she can’t have it with her mom

LIZ: just a girl standing in front of  a boy.. asking for her job back

KRIS: Yes her bad-friend-ness is great

MARCHAE: *snap snap snaps fingrs*

MIRI: But she’s wrong

KRIS: Dammit Ophelia you know I can’t resist Notting Hill

MIRI: and she needs people so badly

Also she’s just hilarious and brilliant and I love her and Harris’s friendship so much

LIZ: her mom was so rude to her on the phone it made me sad especially because Jules doesn’t have a mom.. and I know those were really briefly introduced to me, but I’m sure those are important issues

MIRI: OH YOU JUST WAIT

On the subject of friendship, there are a ton of examples of girls being very affirmational to each other that really interest me

LIZ: I also love that Harris is.. presumably straight and is not afraid to love RBG or Notting Hill

KRIS: I’m so jealous you’re experiencing this show for the first time

MIRI: Because sometimes they’re played for laughs

But not most of the time

and I love that

MARCHAE: YES!

MIRI: Like, the high girls just need to hug!

LIZ: I wanted to be in the back seat of their car screaming along to Defying Gravity

MIRI: And sometimes Kennedy is a bit ridiculous with her goddess stuff

MARCHAE: i love your love for defying gravity liz

MIRI: But for the most part it is 100% genuine

MARCHAE: Kennedy is the most

MIRI: And so what I do with my friends

LIZ: yeah kennedy suggesting that shit to ophelia was HILARIOUS

basically like “HAVE YOU EVER BEEN TO GOOP.COM?”

MIRI: kennedy is indeed the most

MARCHAE: I am so CURIOUS about what happens when Jules tells her

KRIS: That shot where I assume Fiona and Gabby are on a dolly when they enter Vinylton high on shrooms is perfect

MIRI: So I love that there’s drunk girl in the bathroom type compliments and Woke Freshman type compliments AND really genuine support for each other

KRIS: sorry I was just slow there

LIZ: i think that kennedy will eventually (i mean who knows since it is cancelled) be an ally and join the cause or at least be supportive in a protective way

MIRI: OH JUST WAIT

MARCHAE: if she does I may ink myself!!!

KRIS: I repeat, I am so jealous you’re experiencing this show for the first time

MIRI: It’s a very well plotted season and that is all I will say

MARCHAE: *hugs kris*

UGHHHH i’ll probably finish it this weekend

LIZ: hahaha kris I’m feeling like that repetition is to keep yourself from spoiling

KRIS: There is Jules-Kennedy closure, for sure

Yeah, so, we went really long, even for us. Find the rest of our Reaction here.

EDITED 20 April 2019: You can and should buy Sweet/Vicious on Amazon, Google Play, or iTunes. If you’re here because you just watched Jennifer Kaytin Robinson’s Someone Great, maybe now’s a good time to renew calls for Netflix to add S/V to its library.