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1960z · 4 months ago

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SOJ: Final Thoughts

So when I first played spirit of justice at 14 I remember really loving it, the new characters, the cases, just the whole vibe of the thing. however, that was towards the end of my ace attorney hyperfixation and because of that I had never revisited it. when I returned to the fandom recently, I began to realise that quite a good amount of people hold this game in relatively low regard; and while the positive feelings I had from my initial playthrough still lingered, I had to admit I didn't actually remember the game very well, and maybe there would be things about it that would bother me now that wouldn't have back then. and because of that, this was the game I was most excited to return to. and now that I have re-played it and been able to experience it with fresh eyes I can say that while I definitely have more nuanced thoughts surrounding the game, I'm happy to say most of the stuff I enjoyed about it still really holds up

one of my biggest criticisms surrounding dual destinies is that while I did enjoy almost every individual case on some level, it never really coalesced beyond the sum of its parts, leaving the overarching story unsatisfying and disjointed, not to mention uninteresting thematically. I did not have that same problem here! my theory for what happened with DD is that takeshi yamazaki attempted to mimic the style of pacing shu takumi employs more closely in a way that just didn’t really work, meanwhile in soj, I think the pacing is much more in line with what we see in the investigations games where everything takes place over a few days (or in soj, the better half of a month) and connects unlike other main series games that often have months long gaps between cases. characters and scenarios set up in the first case are deeply connected to the fifth and each case barring perhaps case 4 is quite focused on setting up everything that’s about to happen in turnabout revolution.

and turnabout revolution is an absolute monster of a case. its scope is extreme and its twists are insane and honestly I doubt it would have worked if the rest of the game didn’t dedicate as much time as it did to building up to it, but because it did, the payoff felt amazing. I understand that if you zoom out and look from the perspective of the whole series a lot of it may feel like a lot and out of left field and I get why that’s off putting to some people - but taking the game in its own singular context I actually think it does an amazing job of making each twist feel earned. like for example are they basically rebuilding apollo’s backstory from the ground up? yes. does it work well with what was previously established in aa4? no not at all lol. does it work within the confines of spirit of justice? I actually think in that context it works extremely well.

my love for nahyuta is pretty obvious but honestly I think the character that captures the true heart of this game is rayfa. seeing this naïve, sheltered kid go through the process of realising that basically everything she took for granted about her world, even who her parents were, was a lie, and having to deal with that was truly captivating to watch. her entire world being shattered and then still doing everything in her power to make sure the truth came to light, no matter how much it hurt her I think exemplifies a lot of ace attorney’s themes and ideals and I think having a young girl be the centre of that is really cool. my favourite character in aa is franziska and while you will NEVER catch me calling her underdeveloped, because the series does actually give you a lot of insight into her if you want to engage with it, what I WILL admit is that I don’t think she ever got as much narrative focus as the other characters. and to me, rayfa feels very much like what we could have gotten if the narrative had chosen to focus on franziska more.

as I’ve said before also I really theoretically love khura’in. I found myself getting genuinely quite invested in the people and culture and politics of this world that the writers had created. especially since spirit channelling has been a huge part of the aa world since the first game, it was cool to inhabit a legal system that just accepted it unconditionally. it feels like the opinion of the japanifornia courts’ opinion on channelling is that there is something to it but the logic of arguments can’t rely on it definitely existing too heavily and if it does, proving channelling can happen is part of said argument. and god forbid testimony of someone being channelled is used as evidence because of what happened in DL-6. none of these factors exist in khura’in. in case 3 for the first time we get testimony from a victim through channelling and it’s a huge part of the case and case 5 of course relies on channelling massively to explain its events as well and getting to explore these possibilities without having to worry about narrative justification as to why a court of law would accept this was a treat.

I think aa’s format also just lends itself to… for a lack of a better word isekai stories?? like learning about the rules of a world through how said rules can be manipulated for crime is an extremely interesting way to learn about and engage in a fictional world. you see this with plvspw and even fan made projects like that mlp-aa crossover from years ago. and while khura’in does exist in “our” world, obviously there are still a lot of supernatural elements that khura’in takes for granted that wouldn’t be in other places.

but this is were we have to address the elephant in the room and soj’s huge glaring flaw. the thing that went completely over my little 14 year-old-head but looking back now I go "holy shit, that is bad." and that is how soj treats khura’in as a country and the irl political implications of said treatment. from the get-go, khura’in is shown in a very othered and orientalist lens. their way of doing things is depicted as being “spiritual” and “folksy” at the best of times and “backwards” at the worst; and the plot centres around our leads, most of who are not from khura’in, showing the khura’inese people the “right” and “just” way of doing things. in the version of the story I assume most of us are familiar with the characters are american, in the original version they’re japanese, neither country has a good track record with imperialism. this is a colonialist narrative. and while it’s tempting to say that because khura’in is fictional, the implications while problematic still exist more in a vacuum, I think it is important to point out that khura'in borrows a lot of aesthetics from real life cultures such as tibet and india, and when you create a fictional country that is like khurai'n, one that is portrayed as spiritual but unenlightened, one that has a lot of distinctly asian but not distinctly japanese (sans the magatama) aesthetics, you are in fact reinforcing negative, orientalist stereotypes surrounding the real cultures said aesthetics come from which deserves to be called out.

and while yes, there are khura'inese characters who still very much engage in their culture while also fighting for revolution... when combined with the context of dd's overarching narrative that, imo was basically "there are no systemic problems with the legal system, the dark age of the law is simply a result of bad actors" it very much feels like there's this attitude of "revolution for thee but not for me." as if they're only comfortable with telling this story about revolutionaries that are often framed by their own government as terrorists if it takes place within a fictional country that players can paternalistically look down upon. I think this definitely undercuts the rest of the story and I can totally understand why this could all really fuck with a person's ability to engage with and enjoy the game.

in closing, I genuinely think there's a lot to love within soj, it fixed a lot of problems I had with dd. I love each case, I adore the characters, I was thrilled by a lot of the mystery and political intrigue it created. with that being said I absolutely believe reinforcement of colonialist ideas in the text needs to be called out. it didn't ruin the game for me but if it did for someone else, I couldn't blame them. despite all its flaws, I found the closure it provided for these characters both old and new very satisfying. it will always have a place in my heart.

#soj #spirit of justice #ace attorney #abe plays the aj trilogy #one day I might convert all of this into a format that’s more appealing to read than just a wall of text #but to those who do read it in this form ty. I hope u got something out of it at least #also I WILL be live-blogging the dlc case i just wanted to get this out before i started

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nyaagolor · 1 year ago

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How would you rank all the Ace Attorney games you’ve played from favorite to least favorite? You seemed to enjoy all of them, to varying degrees.

So this is actually kind of hard for me to answer depending on whether you base your metric on “how much fun were they to play” “how much do I think to explore the themes / writing / think about the game in general” or “how well written do you think they are”. I’m gonna do all of them and prolly talk a lot so yeehaw. Under the cut bc. surprise surprise! I got long winded

Quick disclaimer: Not including DLC cases or spin off games because if I did we’d be here all day

“How much fun did I have playing through the actual game”

Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney

Trials and Tribulations

Apollo Justice Ace Attorney

Justice for All

Dual Destinies

Spirit of Justice

This might be kinda surprising to some people considering what I talk about on this blog, but honestly my opinions on these games changed drastically after I had time to ruminate on them. Here’s some explanations if you’re curious!

AA1 very well could be at the top because it was the first game in the series and I was going in fresh— while Turnabout Samurai was a bit of a slog, I managed to get through all of these cases in a day each and just could not put down Turnabout Goodbyes. I don’t think about it as much anymore because it was so foundational and all the things it introduced have been explored by other games, but this game really is the reason I fell into this series with such ferocity.

AA3 was much of the same, and I don’t think I had as much fun with a tutorial case as I did with Turnabout Beginnings. The characterization present in this games and the nonlinearity of the narrative is genuinely fantastic, and my opinion of it has only increased over time.

AA4 is ranked a little lower because I actually wasn’t vibing with the game when I first played it— it was only after Turnabout Succession that everything fell into place and the game skyrocketed up my favorites list. Once I’m finished with all the spinoffs and have some time to chill I actually plan on revisiting it with fresh eyes because I think a second playthrough has the potential to be soooo much better than the first. Also APOLLOOOOOOO he’s my little guy :)

I thought justice for all was fine, but boring. Big Top made me feel some emotions that were less than positive, but generally speaking all the cases were fine but didn’t leave a big impression on me. Also I don’t like Farewell My Turnabout nearly as much as other people— I still like it but it didn’t totally blow me away or anything. Game is still like an 8/10, but it didn’t leave a huge impression on me.

Dual Destinies was confusing as hell timeline wise and it made it kinda difficult to figure out what was even happening, and for that same reason I struggled to attach myself to the plot. The game had some moments that really were stellar but the sheer length and layout of the cases kinda made me wanna cry

I literally only finished this game so I could get to Investigations. Characters were great but it was so. Damn. long.

“How much do I like thinking about the games, its writing, and its themes”

Dual Destinies

Apollo Justice Ace Attorney

Trials and Tribulations

Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney

Spirit of Justice

Justice for All

This part of the list actually has very little to do with how good I think the games are or how much I like them, but sometimes a game’s themes just Captivate you.

If you’re reading this you’ve probably seen this blog, and you know how I feel about Dual Destinies. I am OBSESSED with this game. I love the characters, I love the themes, and I am fascinated by every part of the writing process and how the game ended up the way it did. I think about this game an unhealthy amount actually. Don’t let my complaining make you think I don’t love this game to pieces. Bc I do. So much.

I love expanding on things. The media I blog about? KIrby and Pokemon, stories that practically beg for you to fill in the gaps and work with their vagueness. So when Takumi handed me a game with half a dozen hanging plot threads and massive time gaps just begging to be filled? You can bet I would never shut the fuck up about it. AJAA my absolute beloved

I could probably talk about Miego for hours. This game is incredible I think about it on the regular. Ough.

This game slams but all the ideas introduced by it have been expanded on and talked about and worked with in a hundred different ways so it’s hard to me to really go back other than to say “wow Turnabout Goodbyes was so fucking good”

Literally the only context in which I think about this game is “this should have been a spinoff” but honestly it barely crosses my mind except when I purposefully try to ignore it

JFA is good and makes me feel absolutely nothing

“How well-written do I think the games are”

Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney

Trials and Tribulations

Apollo Justice Ace Attorney

Justice for All

Spirit of Justice

Dual Destinies

These are suuuuuper close so this list is a lil shakier than the others but explanations are below as usual!

Ok this is really REALLY tough because I think AA1 and AA3 are tied. They both have their moments and I think the themes are incredible, but for the purposes of this list I’m putting AA1 above AA3 because BttT is a little bit absolutely batshit insane? Turnabout Goodbyes is TIGHT. Sorry Godot you’re still my favorite prosecutor ily kitten

See above

I’ve never seen an AA game whose final cases elevates the entire game quite like AA4. I thought the game was good, but the Turnabout Succession hit and oh my GOD. I think about this game constantly it’s so, SO good. Also helps that Apollo really shakes up the series, he’s my favorite species of insect

These cases were fine, Franziska is a solid prosecutor, the whole “chooses death” thing was fresh, and Farewell was some of the best character writing this series has seen. I don’t honestly have much to even say about it bc it’s super solid

The difference between DD and SOJ is that I think DD had a really good story that it failed to tell effectively while SOJ succeeded in telling its story but that story fucking sucks. Jokes aside I don’t like SOJ but the story is cohesive at least. It had a plot. It was Fine. DD failed miserably but oh my god what you could have been. Ily. Mwah.

See above

Sorry this wasn’t a clear ranking / favorites list, hope you enjoyed regardless!!

#mod vex #ask #ace attorney #heheheeee I love AA asks I love talking about it

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yakool-foolio · 3 months ago

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Alright lads, with the completion of TGAA2, it's time for the usual post-playthrough Ace Attorney tier list update! As always, the order is as follows: characters, breakdowns, and cases!

Quite a few notable changes in my rankings for TGAA's initial cast! A lotta ups and no downs! Most importantly, the trio of favs has evolved into a quartet! Welcome to the big leagues, Kazuma! I especially found the one-time witnesses to be much more memorable, except for case 3's, but case 3 has everything else in it's favor so I can forgive it without second thought.

I pair 5-4n5 and TGAA2-4n5 together since they're 'codependent cases' and it kinda feels wrong to separate them when ya cant have one without the other there. They're inextricably linked. TGAA2 really knocked everything outta the park and is tied for my favorite game with Dual Destinies, but I do have to admit that TGAA2 is better written overall. With one duology now docked at its heartfelt conclusion, it's time to begin anew with the other spinoff duology: Investigations! I'll be writing up my live reactions once we start case 2 of the first game, so I'll see y'all then!

#ace attorney #ace attorney spoilers #the great ace attorney #tgaa #tgaa spoilers #tgaa2 #tgaa2 spoilers

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melloggd · 1 year ago

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Review: Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney

Capcom • Capcom • 2007 • Nintendo DS Read it on Backloggd: (x)

So, here we are. Having written my Dual Destinies review (one of my favorites I've written, still) and almost being finished with Spirit of Justice, I feel its about time I toss my hat into the ring regarding AA4, possibly the most discussed Ace Attorney game of them all. There's a lot to unpack with AA4, and a lot of different ways to unpack it.

After AA1/2/3 wrapped up as a pretty much perfect, concluded trilogy, the 4th game had to be one to really break some sort of new ground, to not just seem as if the franchise was being stretched thin. And to outsiders looking in, be assured: They did far more than just give us a new protagonist. You meet Phoenix only to find out that he's completely changed, the perception of what makes a good defense lawyer has changed, your relation to the prosecution has changed, the story being told and, indeed, the very world of the game has shifted wholly. Its a remarkably ambitious game: One that, rather than just telling another story of a new character's growth like the old trilogy did, chose to readjust the lens of the series to focus far more on the law world at large, whilst subverting player expectations along the way.

I'll drop the dramatics and be blunt: In terms of ambition, ideas and themes, AA4 ranks as possibly my favorite game in the series. But as the finished game we got, I consider it the least enjoyable game in the series I've played.

Yet I can't even be sure if that's a bad thing. Because with so many of the issues I take with the game, there's a fascinating viewpoint that changes it into an interesting positive that also fits right in with the game's general direction of…well, misdirection, and subversion. Simply put, its an artsy game. For example, I noted halfway through my playthrough that the game's repertoire of characters are all mostly annoying, mean, or hard to work with, which leads to me as a player feeling miffed. Yet at the same time, Apollo is living in a new age of distrust and darkness in the legal world. He's living in an age where few feel like they can trust in others anymore, because people like Kristoph who desire results far above truth or fairness rule the justice system: The idea of "evidence" is so easily manipulated, that anyone can escape justice. Thus, Apollo's unable to have his perfect storybook journey of growth and support like Phoenix had because the world around him has changed to be hostile. So, is it really right of me to complain about the game doing what it sets out to do exceptionally well?

On the topic of Apollo himself, its very interesting that he himself is such a passive and static figure throughout most of the game, which underwhelmed me at first. But like I said: This isn't a character-driven story like the Trilogy, so is Apollo's lack of focus a BAD thing? Is the game trying to subvert what came before, rather than running with the tried-and-true optimistic hero's journey, a bad thing? Its a lot of these dilemmas I run into when thinking about the game, and its the reason why I respect it so highly despite the actual process of playing it being a lot more middling than the rest of the series in my eyes.

With all that being said, for as much intent as the game may otherwise have, it IS still Ace Attorney and comes with all the pros and cons of that. The animation is gorgeous, music is stellar, most of the overall mysteries are still pretty fun to unravel, and the whole gameplay of untangling testimonies is as fun as ever. The great fundamentals are still here and keep it enjoyable to play to a degree, and you can even sort of tell a new director is at the helm with this project.

Mitsuru Endo, previously a game designer first and foremost on games like Breath of Fire and Sengoku Basara, really rubs off his love for new gameplay systems and quirks in this game. Like usual for the series though, these systems end up being a mixed bag. Investigating evidence can be pretty fun and is a natural fit for the series, and Percieving is a cool and distinct power, iconic to Apollo. Yet then you have stuff like Ema's Forensics minigames, which feel really out of place and are uninteresting to engage with. There's no puzzle to them, just a good ol' DS touchscreen game. You get the feeling a lot of these things, and the systems exclusive to the third and fourth case, were added as a novelty, as fun toys for the player to engage with rather than being anything substantial…yet at the same time, as a game themed around magic tricks, isn't that heightened interactivity also part of the point?

In terms of writing and general direction, the main thing I think Takumi's games (those being the Ace Attorney Trilogy and The Great Ace Attorney Chronicles) are worse at than his peers' is linking cases together to form a cohesive whole. Takumi excels in writing amazing and deviously clever singular cases, but in all his games its as if he can't resist including one or two bonus cases solely for how cool their mysteries are, rather than thinking of how their inclusion will affect the pacing of the game in its totality. Samurai, Big Top, Masked, Recipe, a lot of the individual mysteries in Ghost Trick, Speckled Band, Clouded Kokoro, the first two cases entirely in The Great Ace Attorney 2…don't get me wrong, I think his works are almost universally fantastic, but at times they can feel disjointed to progress through due to his unashamed love of "filler".

Under Endo's directing, meanwhile, it does feel like effort was placed on giving all cases purpose, reigning in Takumi's style of writing just enough to get the best of both worlds. All cases have substantial meaning, yet are able to be as zany and clever as Takumi always loves to write them. Beyond being a crazy case of solving several crimes at once, 4-2 serves to highlight how much Phoenix has changed and how Trucy helps him. 4-3 features a murder that takes place during a series of live stage performances, asking you to rewatch its footage to catch specific details related to witness testimony. At the same time, it also has a great focus on Klavier as a character, and the corrupt police-force that's been able to thrive in this new age, asking questions on if the law is always just in what it stands for. Yet that being said, we run back to the original issue of fun: Despite its cool themes and depth, 4-3 remains the worst case in any Ace Attorney game to actually play, both because of poor gameplay pacing, but also because the writing doesn't feel fleshed out enough to properly convey its brilliant ideas.

The lack of Psyche-Lockes as well honestly destroys the fun of investigating, and the pacing across all three cases featuring investigations is honestly dreadful. The only substitute present for the lack of Psyche-Lockes is the aforementioned mind-numbing forensics minigames, which do little to help things. Now, I noted in my Dual Destinies review that that game also had underwhelming gameplay, but it to me was salvaged by still having a rock solid, well-paced story pace where things were always happening. The game lacks Psyche-Lockes (for most of it) as well but makes up for it with a steadier stream of discoveries, more interesting 3D crime scene investigations, and so on. Due to AA4s insistence on finding meaning in the mundane, it ends up far less fun to play.

So, its a really tough call. I don't think AA5 or 6 are as ambitious or nuanced in what they want to convey as AA4, yet but they make up for it by having more engaging story events and better pacing across the board, leading to a more enjoyable experience for me. They're stories that are told in a tighter and more fun way than AA4, yet it feels wrong to label the game as "the worst Ace Attorney!!" because, again, it tries so hard and has such a unique flair as by far the most artistic game in the series.

Had this been the final Ace Attorney as originally intended, it would've been an impactful note to end on. But I am glad we did get more games in the series, and it led to great things. The murky law world of AA4 begins to heal across the events of AA5, and AA6 gives you an insight into just how badly it could have escalated, emphasizing a theme of preparing the new generation to solve the issues that are inevitably going to occur through the old generation's stubbornness and evil. Apollo finally becomes a character with agency and goals, Trucy's relationship to the Gramarye's is given a sweet bookend, we get to see how Edgeworth and Klavier handle the growingly unjust law world, Ema is, there, and Phoenix takes on the mentor role he was destined to do.

What I'm saying is: I'm really happy with how AA4, 5 and 6 turned out as a trilogy, even though it makes AA4's ambition stick out in hindsight, and now just exists as "that one weird game" rather than "the crazy rug-pull finale of the series". Despite my grievances with it, I do still love AA4, and I'm glad its resonated with so many people. But its overambition alongside its stumbles, from pretty shallow gameplay additions to bad pacing, keep me from loving it wholesale and having it click entirely. Simply put, a lot of its "but its like this way on purpose"-isms just don't land with me the way they do in games like Suda51's work. Yet it remains Ace Attorney at its core, and the simple fact that they even tried in a series otherwise aiming for as much mass appeal as this one, is worth so much respect. Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney is forever going to be a standout game in the series, and for me that's both for better and for worse. Basically, I'm just glad it exists, even if its not for me.

[Play Time: 35 Hours] [Key Word: Overzealous]

#melloggd : reviews #game reviews #video games #video game review #game writing #ace attorney #pwaa #phoenix wright ace attorney #apollo justice #apollo justice ace attorney #apollo justice trilogy #aa4 #aa5 #aa6 #kristoph gavin #klavier gavin #phoenix wright #visual novel #nintendo ds

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nemaria · 1 year ago

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Tags I use in case you want to mute for spoilers or any other reason:

#nem's fic - my fic and fandom writing

#aa - Ace Attorney: anything from AA1-6 and both Investigations games, though I won't post anything that is a spoiler for my friends' current playthrough (as of June 24, 2024 we have just finished the first case of Dual Destinies)

#dgs - Dai Gyakuten Saiban/The Great Ace Attorney

#mdzs - Mo Dao Zu Shi/Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation

#untamed - I will also tag mdzs on these posts but live-action specific stuff will have this tag

#svsss - Scum Villain's Self-Saving System

#tgcf - Tian Guan Ci Fu/Heaven Official's Blessing

#hades game - Hades (Supergiant Games)

#star trek - Only will have spoilers from the older shows (mainly TOS, TNG, and Voyager)

#fe3h - Fire Emblem 3 Houses

#us politics - Self explanatory

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bones-sprouts · 2 years ago

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pspspspspssps bites ur ankle to get ur attention How do i get into ace attorney

KGDFOYALHH DID VJDLVLHGKX ED CLHDKHCK sorry. normal now. okay so

i recommend starting with the original trilogy of games!!!!! theyre like violently widely available which is really cool, i suggest the switch ports bc thats what i played and it was great but they're also on ds, wii, steam, and there are mobile ports that work p well! i also rbed a post that has links to roms of everything right under this, but i have yet to test them. ALSO ALSO, if you would prefer a playthrough with commentary there are tons of great ones on the first game and my personal all time favorite is press buttons and talk, who have covered the entire trilogy and the first investigations game (theyr so funny and they care ab the series sm i love it i would personally recommend playing the games for yourself but still watching their playthroughs afterwards) HOWEVER none of them play the bonus fifth case of the first game which is like one of the best in the series and introduces a character thats really important later on so be careful there

my personal recommendation for what order to play the games in is obviously chronological order, going ace attorney, justice for all, trials and tribulations (these 3 are literally always sold as a package deal except on like the ds) them optionally investigations 1 and 2 (these r spinoffs about edgeworth that only get vaguely referenced in future games, and 2 doesn't have an official translation so ur only options there are romming the fan translation [one of the press buttons and talk guys worked on it!!!] and watching a playthrough [jelloapocalypses is really funny and good but his playthrough of the last part of the final case is lost media which sucks ASS i wanna see it again so bad]) and then apollo justice (either ur favorite or least favorite game. i think u would be an aj fan but we'll see) then dual destinies (🤮) and then spirit of justice (🤮)

there's also 2 other spin offs with a completely different cast thats set in feudal japan and england thats made by the guy who made the original trilogy and apollo justice and theyre probably the best games in the series (i don't know! i have not finished them!) and they just got translated so they just have a switch and a steam port for now

this probably looks a little bit complicated but thats just me likimg to ramble ace attorney is like 100% one of the easiest game series out there to get into and i think you would like it a lot i suggest either buying romming or watching a playthrough of the first game its so so great there r so many amazing characters

#i want the joy of playing the first game blind again so bad oh my god

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thehandwixard · 7 months ago

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how did you get into the ace attorney series? (i like how you tag it as "aa" because it looks like you're always quietly yelling about it)

like many things in my life because i watched game grumps a Lot a lot for years, they played the first game and i kind of fell in love with it, partially cause i rewatched the full playthrough a LOT to fill time. i think the real hook moment for me was uhh. during the final case, where nick is explaining why he became an attorney, dan avidan said "you only do shit like this for someone if you are planning to marry them" with full sincerity after hours of more basic joking about how gay phoenix and edgeworth seem and that stuck with me.

then sometime later i played the next two games with my friend and we voiced all the characters and it was so fun.. played apollo justice and about half of dual destinies too. i like dual destinies plenty the monstrous turnabout is one of the most hype non-finale cases imo

#apollo justice is... a game #the final case made me and my friend so mad it wasnt even funny because the setup was so good and then kristoph just #deflates

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someone-online · 2 years ago

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(Cartun) Hey, i saw that your Trucy Gavin AU comic, And while i don’t know much of Ace attorney (watched some playthroughs tho), i would like to know what it is about!!

OOH OKAY so the premise of my Trucy Gavin Au is that instead of being adopted by Phoenix, she’s adopted by Kristoph, who trains her to become a defense attorney like himself at a young age. She becomes a defense attorney around the same time as Apollo and she’s basically an evil magician lawyer with rumors surrounding her about how she uses underhanded tricks to win cases, magician’s tricks.

Gonna get into MAJOR Apollo Justice spoilers below the cut, especially for stuff learned in Turnabout Succession

So Zak doesnt use Poker to determine his lawyer and sticks with Kristoph as his attorney. Kristoph ends up using the forged evidence of course, establishing Zak’s innocence. However, Zak still flees before a verdict is announced (ee mentions smth in the game abt how it will be impossible to declare a verdict, so I genuinely believe that he was planning on running out no matter what) and Kristoph gets stuck with an 8 year old girl.

At first, he’s planning on giving her up to an orphanage when he can’t find any living relatives of hers, until he learns that she aided Zak in his escape. This makes Kristoph realize that she’s smarter than he first thought, meaning she could be useful to him, so he adopts her, not out of pity or love, but because he could use her. He has her start training to become a defense attorney like himself that she’s a defense attorney by the time she’s 15.

Kristoph gets the fame he was looking for as the lawyer who defended Zak Gramarye, but due to the defendant running away, there are rumors that Zak was actually guilty, and that Kristoph is a defense attorney who would do anything to win, like the defense attorney version of the Demon Prosecutor. Still, hes a really good defense attorney, so he’s still getting business.

Another important thing about this Au: Phoenix never got disbarred, since Kristoph was never replaced, so the Wright and Co. Law Offices remains. Apollo ends up working there instead of the Gavin and Co. Law Offices, and this part is still iffy as I need to play more of Dual Destinies, but I’m thinking of changing the timeline a bit and having Athena in the US during AA4 as Apollo’s assistant/weird girl as an intern at the Wright and Co. Law Offices studying to take the bar exam since Trucy can no longer be his weird girl.

Not completely sure how the actual game itself would play out now, I’m still developing this Au, but Kristoph does still end up killing Zak seven years later. Zak has the real torn page, which makes Kristoph paranoid because Zak could reveal Kristoph’s secret of seven years that he used forged evidence and destroy his career. So Kristoph kills him on impulse.

Apollo still catches Kristoph as the true culprit somehow (not sure how yet, still working this out), and of course Trucy finds out. She defends her father in his trial and gets him a Not Guilty due to a lack of evidence, so he doesn’t go to jail this time. But the Gavin & Co. Law Offices name is ruined thanks to Kristoph having been labeled as a murderer. The moment Trucy learns it was Apollo Justice who branded her father a criminal, she decides that she hates him for doing so and declares him her enemy.

I have some ideas as to how the Au plays out w their rivalry as two defense attorneys, but I’m still working it out

#asks #anonymous #cartun #ace attorney #trucy gavin au

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escarlatafox · 2 years ago

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penny for ur thoughts on aa dual destinies!

You First.

(Just kidding but man. I'm curious on your opinions and feel that anything I can say would be inadequate in comparison djdfjdfjh)

This ask feels intimidatingly broad to me because I rarely think about or analyse Dual Destinies, the game itself, as a cohesive whole, as opposed to being highly opinionated about so many individual but unrelated things underneath this banner of “Dual Destinies” that aren’t related or necessarily about the question of the game’s cohesive story and cases-strung-together in and of itself.

And Really, in my response here, while I certainly talk ABOUT Dual Destinies, it still feels like I haven't really Answered The Fundamental Question this ask you have bestowed upon me requests. I have no unified, cohesive, coherent thoughts. Only reactions and responses, a huge amount of which are just not even mentioned here because I already wrote too much because this game is my undoing <3

My reactions to the game seem to have purely been on two extreme ends of a spectrum of disinterest vs obsession at different points of the game especially during my first playthrough, leaving these two extreme points of view hopelessly biasing me beyond the ability to give a proper rundown/analysis of the game as a cohesive whole and present my thoughts. It feels like for some aspects either I don’t care enough to form much of a solid opinion that I can talk about or coherently word or I’m too obsessed to present my opinion in a manner sufficiently connected purely to the game in-and-of-itself as the topic at hand.

Probably immediately alienating a lot of Dual Destinies supporters right off the bat: the people that call Dual Destinies “boring”… I can’t even like say anything to that necessarily at least when they mean the EARLY cases. Because even when I was really far into my first playthrough it’s just like. Yeah. That was me. I wasn’t really invested.

Like even now I just can't really bring myself to care too much about the storyline contents of the wrestling case and Turnabout Academy and what have you, idk. It comes down to different people have different tastes and the actual content of those cases, on the face of it, just like... I don't really get very interested by it.

I thought Professor Means’ transformation when cornered was pretty fun though. That had my attention.

One thing I don’t really have any real beef with is the fact that the game decided to be its own thing. People point to and criticise Dual Destinies as this point of divergence in the series but – hold on I have some old discord messages I can post here

People point the blame at Dual Destinies as being the point of divergence but with me, the series diverged in 4. 4 is what gave us the massive timeline gap that introduced so many issues. I talk about not being particularly invested in my first playthrough of DD, but I say this as someone who was also not particularly invested during parts of AA4, and undeniably less interested than I was during my playthrough of the trilogy. In my eyes, AA4 had already “broken” a lot of things about Ace Attorney canon, so by the time Dual Destinies rolls around it’s just sort of like “sure do whatever at this point I guess”. An Apollo Justice sequel could have enhanced AA4 and could have been great in its own right. But I wasn’t that invested in the direction AA4 took to begin with, so… I don’t feel any great loss associated with AA5’s determination to be its own things that vocal portions of the fandom feel. I’m totally cool with AA5 trying to be its own mostly self-contained thing. At This Point, Why Not? Etc etc.

One thing I do dislike about Dual Destinies is… That’s Not Edgeworth.

Edgeworth was my favourite character. He shows up in Dual Destinies and he’s dead on arrival. He never was. He might as well not have been before he even arrived. #NotMyEdgeworth who is that????

For all the lambasting of the game and of Phoenix’s characterisation by the fandom it feels like people accept AA5 Edgeworth so uncritically and even just. Somehow manage to build a continuity between Edgeworth from the previous games and AA5Edgeworth and even look to AA5Edgeworth to build a basis of their understanding of his character and I’m always just like ???????

Okay, okay, I have to inevitably talk about The Ending Of The Game. That’s why you’re here that’s why We’re here. This is the big one.

People criticise a) the revelation about “Bobby” being the big bad as being a typical “cheap twist for shock value” villain reveal and b) the reveal that “Bobby” isn’t actually Bobby, but rather “some random nobody” to be “pointless”.

My response to a) is: I don’t care.

To elaborate a little further, my response to a) is: sorry it didn’t Do It for you, but I was having the absolute time of my life. It was thrilling. It was shocking. It was FUN. This trope exists for a reason and I can’t get enough of it – well okay, in the broader media landscape it has been a little overplayed in the present day, I’ve encountered instances where it felt forced or overplayed, and I get that. This is not one of the instances where I felt that way at all. Maybe it’s not your cup of tea, but it’s MY cup of tea and you don’t get to say it’s objectively bad or objectively pointless – of course there’s no such thing as objectivity when it comes to appreciation of tropes or art etc etc and so on. Things become cliches and things fall out of favour and what have you and the cycle goes on. Tropes exist for a reason. People like and dislike aspects of media for a multitude of different complex subjective reasons etc etc etc. I played Dual Destinies blind just as I’d played the other games blind and I got to revel in and relish the full force of the reveal as it happened. 10/10

If someone goes into this game already spoiled about the villain, I Get it. That would take a LOT of momentum out of the impact of the reveal. I’m extremely grateful I got to play it to the end blind. I don’t know how different this game would have been for me if I’d known about the twist beforehand.

People criticise spoiler culture a lot these days and there has been the argument raised that if a work is “ruined” by knowing a certain twist beforehand, then it probably wasn’t very good to begin with and that a work should be able to stand on its own merits regardless of whether spoilers are or are not known beforehand.

I understand the sentiment, but at the same time, while there are works you can enjoy regardless of whether aspects are spoiled or not, the type of enjoyment - the type of experience you would derive from the work is still DIFFERENT.

And while yes, I think that spoiler culture is pretty Extreme in the present cultural zeitgeist and that some works don’t necessarily really need it, some works are genuinely better to consume blind because of how they function and what they do.

Part of what it comes down to is that I Had Fun. And I had fun largely because I didn’t know the twist was coming before it hit, and the impact of the revelation was fun. And you can pry that fun Dual Destinies twist villain reveal from my cold dead hands.

It’s part of where my investment in the game sort of flipped from 0 to 100. Okay that’s not quite true – there were all these whisperings about a “phantom”. The phantom theme played for a bit prior to the reveal which REALLY adds to hype tbh. The characters were discussing this absolutely incredible person who, in the absence of fear, was capable of making that massive leap high up in the air which would have required a running start. Where they could have easily fallen to their death had they not timed it right. We got to see that glimpse of them in the space centre footage where we just can’t quite see any real definitive facial characteristics. Just enough was being teased about the phantom that really, I was already well and truly hooked and fascinated by these concepts the game was bringing up. The aura of intrigue, of the notion that there lurks a spy amongus,

Yeah. Yeah.

My response to b) “the reveal that “Bobby” isn’t actually Bobby, but rather “some random nobody” is “pointless”.” Is…

Okay, while I wholeheartedly disagree with this sentiment, it’s funny to note first that I was somewhat inclined to agree with it in the immediate aftermath of the reveal. Like, we find out Bobby is dead, that Bobby was sincerely a good person after all it seemed, and tbh my sentiment was sorta like “damn. I wish Bobby WAS the evil one though. That’d be Cool. I want to see evil genuine Bobby. The notion excites me”. We got BAITED with the notion of an evil Bobby, smh (JK)

But anyway, when people try to “rewrite” or “fix” Dual Destinies and just…. Completely ignore Bobby/The phantom/scrap that whole aspect of the game it’s just like…….. It does not Compute. Like at that point, you’re not “fixing” Dual Destinies with its core premise and concepts and plotlines, you’re writing an entirely different game with an entirely different plot! People claim that Dual Destinies had potential and then set about seemingly doing their utmost to erase one of the fundamental aspects of the game that carried the MOST potential. It’s at that point where common ground I could have with that person breaks down completely and I’m simply left scratching my head.

I’ve seen people criticise Dual Destinies for refusing to reveal any of the phantom’s true facial characteristics or information about their identity and it’s like. Okay. Let’s actually examine that criticism realistically for a moment. So it’s the end of Dual Destinies. You learn that the phantom was just some guy called Jackson Morgan all along. The sniper shot happens. Jackson Morgan falls to the ground. We see they’re just some guy with curly brown hair.

What does this revelation realistically add to the game and its themes. What does this realistically accomplish. What do we stand to gain from adding this in.

Or, how would it detract from the game and the themes it raises, as it currently stands? What would we lose from its effectiveness?

We get No information about the phantom… and that’s the point. People argue that that’s pointless, that it’s a cop-out, that it’s whatever-negative-thing-have-you, and I’m just like… No??

And like, theoretically, we could have some sort of phantom-identity-reveal plot, but the simple fact of the matter is that there is not enough room left in the game to do so in any effective or meaningful way. It’s not what this game was for or what it set out to do.

Athena is a brilliant character to be contrasted against the phantom. Fandom loves Athena and they want to keep Athena. But what doesn’t seem to be acknowledged is what a good contrast against someone so centred around emotions like Athena that the phantom is. Athena feels and detects the emotions of others, meanwhile we have the phantom, someone who hardly has any emotions at all.

But fandom does not, for the most part, like the phantom. They consider the phantom a non-character in the strictest sense. They largely refuse to engage with the phantom as a character that Exists in this franchise.

To be fair, to an extent, so does Dual Destinies (and Capcom LOLLL), and that’s one of my criticisms of the game. Like, at times it really feels like the writers really have forgotten the truth behind “Bobby” and it feels like maybe they really did just write Bobby as authentic up until pasting a sudden twist onto the end.

But it’s like damn, you guys all have no idea how much fun you’re missing out on when you refuse to genuinely engage with the phantom as a character that this franchise has presented us with.

The lack of identity and lack of emotions are just such interesting themes. Emotions, identity, personhood, the concept of the self… I’m all about those themes.

Dual Destinies absolutely could have done a better job handling the themes and by god I wish it did. But I see the solution would be to have a more guided and cohesive focus on those themes building up to the introduction of the phantom revelation, not in seeking to erase the phantom from the story altogether.

People often criticise Dual Destinies for trying to be too many things at once. And yeah, that criticism is founded. There are several different ideas with potential for their own individual games all bundled into one singular game, and in many respects botched and/or poorly executed because they’re just not given enough room to BREATHE. The phantom as a character and the themes and concepts brought up BY the character is one of those things that was just not given enough room, and should have been a more coherent, focused site of exploration throughout the game so that the audience could feel a greater sense of thematic resonance with the reveal(s) towards the end of the game and all it entailed.

It just so happens that I am the ultimate sucker for the themes and ideas brought up by the phantom and their presence in the game. I eat those themes up like you wouldn’t believe, so Dual Destinies in a sense sort of cheated its way into making me completely obsessed in raising those themes in the first place, regardless of how much they were explored. The people arguing the phantom reveal on top of the Bobby-as-villain reveal is “pointless” are seemingly buying into the phantom’s assertion of their non-existence wholeheartedly and uncritically and without seeking to entertain what the game might actually be wanting us to be doing or thinking about with this set-up.

(I’m biased. I’m impossibly biased. I am ADDICTED to the themes the game flirts with. I can’t claim to know what the writers ‘actually’ wanted us to get out of this game at the end of the day. All I know is that I got so much out of it it’s insane. I owe so much to Dual Destinies it’s unreal.)

There’s a few layers to this.

Dual Destinies raises the following questions: what if there was a person who had no identity that they called their own, no emotions, no self. What would such a person be like? What would such a person be capable of? What could such a person do? Is the existence of such a person even possible?

The game doesn’t necessarily answer these questions. But it asks them. It presents its own tentative hypotheses.

These are fundamentally questions that dip into philosophy and science. Setting aside the question of identity for a moment, we can ask ourselves what a human without emotions would be like, what other parts/aspects of their existence would a lack of emotions affect? What does that tell us about the nature of humanity? What are human emotions intertwined with that would be impacted by their absence?

And that’s not to start on a whole host of questions about the topic of identity.

I don’t understand why most of the fandom doesn’t seem to find that remotely interesting??? The phantom is a wonderful theoretical case study. But I can’t see the forest for the trees, I’m too busy eating dirt tbh.

The game has its cake and eats it too because it never demystifies the phantom, leaving them an identity-less endless abyss of a character (which people accept uncritically as “oh so they’re not an actual character then and I should act as if they really don’t exist” without engaging with any deeper philosophical underpinning or significance of what it would even MEAN to be a conscious ‘identity-less being’) meanwhile the game never denies that the phantom really is a person. The game tells us a) they have some emotions b) that massive breakdown they have at the end. The game is saying yes the phantom is just another person at the end of the day. ‘You can’t outrun yourself’…

I have surprisingly few opinions on the way the game itself handled the phantom (besides wanting more foreshadowing and/or retrospective indication that "Bobby" was always being written with the phantom in mind as opposed to the phantom's existence not factoring into the writing process) or how it "should" have treated the phantom in the ending. Other phantom fans absolutely do have opinions about it. The reason for my lack of opinion in this area is my analysis on this front is that when it comes to canon content of the phantom I simply tend to accept their portrayal/scenes in the game as-is, and then proceed to analyse from there, as opposed to asking "what could/should the game have done differently?". I engage on a very Watsonian level in that particular respect, not a Doylistic one.

But I'm always down for hearing other phantom fans' takes on what the game should have done with the character. <3

Anyway I had literally only Just written up a kind of tangential thing today and yesterday so. I’m just gonna stick it here at the end of this post as a random Bonus. I was gonna think about messaging you about it or emailing it to you anyway Shoop ahhhhh <3 it’s not the complete text but it’s a relevant excerpt!

Here, just because your epic:

"The phantom’s claim that they have no subjective sense of self leaves them open to make claims of absolute objectivity – absolute neutrality - and control over expressed behaviour – to them, their entire life is performance itself. They are always mimicking, imitating, portraying the behaviour of others, and never behaving just as ‘themself’; everything intentionally (consciously) mediated.

The phantom’s denial of their own existence is an ontological absurdity on the face of it. While they surely would not deny their physical existence as an organism, they deny having any self at all. A purely Cartesian distinction is insufficient and still cannot account for them having only a body and no “mind” – the fact that there is a consciousness mediating their impersonations is contradiction of that; subjectivity is also an inevitability. It’s always come across to me like a strange/misguided attempt on their part seemingly to deny their own “Cogito, ergo sum”. The phantom is hardly claiming that they are a p-zombie. Even if they were completely incapable of emotion (which is born out in the game to not be ultimately true), they are capable of feeling physical pain and are just as conscious as any other. Not only that, but their very disposition requires them to engage in a complex, high-level way of thinking and awareness – their every move must be calculated. A lack of self is often associated with a lack of awareness and a lack of intent, which is overwhelmingly not the case here. The phantom is required to be far more aware of their behaviour than the average person.

You may argue the phantom denies not their physical existence as an organism, nor their consciousness, but a “self” more in a social/political/etc sense. But I consider such hopelessly abstract definitions of “self” to be far too artificial and externally imposed to the extent that they are undivorceable and inevitable results of the baseline “cogito, ergo sum.” To exist and to be a living, thinking, breathing, conscious being is to hold beliefs about the world around you in order to facilitate navigation of that world. To hold beliefs is to be of a certain orientation/inclination, and that is to be anything but neutral. Neutrality was never an option. A feeling of a lack of self is a feeling in and of itself. The lack of feeling is part of the constitution of the self to begin with. To have no self and yet to have a consciousness is a contradiction. The consciousness is evidence of the self."

#I'm not putting this in any main tags im so. SO.... Totally Normal :)#Also I absolutely had more to add and I just Forgot. Wonder if it'll come back to me oh well #cmpunkapologist #ask #asks #long post #can I be normal about character for five minute? the answer is no

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inspector-montoya-fox · 3 years ago

Text

here’s why Dual Destinies doesn’t work in my opinion

If you tune in to Turnabout Podcast or frequent this blog, if you can even call it that, you might know that Dual Destinies is my least favourite Ace Attorney game. I bitch about it a lot but, just like with my coup de grâce here, I wanted to gather all my thoughts in a single post. Almost two years after my initial playthrough, I’ve started appreciating some aspects of the game like its outstanding soundtrack and art, but overall my opinion remains unchanged and actually worsens as I increasingly acquaint myself with the series and related works, such as Ghost Trick, which has no right being so amazing *long sentence*. The point is, DD feels like a rushed and messy game which doesn’t hold a candle to its peers. Let’s take a look:

(spoilers ahead!)

Phoenix Who? Dual Destinies marked the return of Phoenix Wright in the courtroom. Whether this was a good or bad decision, it can undoubtedly be traced to the mixed reaction Phoenix received in the previous installment, Apollo Justice. Thing is, DD Phoenix doesn’t resemble a single thing about the original Phoenix. I’m not some sacrilegious Phoenix Wright SiMp with a boner for the trilogy, but this is so inconsistent on so many levels. Let’s consider what Phoenix went through during the trilogy: he lost his mentor, had to defend Maya twice and almost lost, defended a homicidal maniac while being threatened with Maya’s abduction, saw ghosts, including his ex girlfriend who emotionally abused him, grieved over Edgeworth’s departure, more fucked up shit that went down in Bridge, survived multiple physical altercations and incidents like getting beat up by Redd White, zapped by Von Karma, falling from a bridge into a frozen river, and more. Despite all this, his PTSD is never explored. The man literally comes out from all of these situations unscathed, maintaining his anxious demeanor and not changing a single bit. Call it bad writing if you want, I just think that if overcoming all of these instances didn’t help him build an ounce of confidence, nothing would. But then, DD Phoenix returns after the events of AJ surprisingly bold. It’s inconsistent. Initially, I thought this new, “improved” Phoenix was a direct result of Shu Takumi leaving after writing AJ, but then I remembered the AJ Phoenix. That’s a whole other topic of discussion I’m not willing to write about for the sake of this post remaining consistent (unlike Phoenix), but my main question is: what happened to Phoenix? if he came out of the trilogy unchanged but after 7 years turned into a chilled bro with one of his eyes twitching, to just then channel an even more bizarre version of himself in DD, then what happened? It’s never explained. Can it be attributed to Iris, who is never seen after Bridge? Maya leaving? Or did losing his badge and adopting Trucy fuck him up so bad that his brain got fried, because that’s valid in a very American drama series kinda way, but it doesn’t explain at all how he just casually bounces back in DD. He doesn’t get his badge back officially until Reclaimed so it’s not that his return is justified. And no, I’m not accepting the oh it’s because of Athena’s arrival of course! excuse because that’s never explained in full either. If Phoenix’s transition from trilogy to AJ is weird, then his transition from AJ to DD is even weirder because we never get a reason behind his shift. We’ve witnessed him gain experience as an attorney without losing his true self in cases such as Recipe, during which he managed to outsmart Furio Tigre. In that episode, he evolved so much since the first game but was still the restless, uptight Phoenix we met back in the First Turnabout. So saying that he’s just experienced now doesn’t work either. I’ll just settle for an Avril Lavigne explanation at this point

“Apollo Justice 2: Dual Destinies”: circling back to Apollo Justice, Phoenix wasn’t the only inconsistency between the two games. There were a lot, actually. Firstly, the Mason System? What ever happened to that? AJ made such a big deal out of it, pigeonholed Phoenix into that storyline and then placed it as a centerpiece in the middle of Succession in a way with which you’d think it was here to stay. In fact, it could have been used to explain the shift in Phoenix’s personality. Imagine: Phoenix Wright’s comeback after the Mason System’s huge success. If they simply acknowledged the Mason System, not even incorporated it into the game, it could act as a reason to explain Phoenix’s newfound confidence. But instead it’s nowhere to be seen. Then we have, Phoenix being a horrible dad by hyping the fans who are into incest by never informing his own daughter and his protégé that they’re siblings. Where do we even start with this one? First of all, why? I want to know, it’s so annoying. @Capcom why? So that’s never addressed, the magician stuff all gets thrown out the window for an entire game, and as a result Trucy becomes... a nuisance? Can you imagine if they ever did that to Maya in Justice for All ? After spending a game as our trusty assistant, she’s now just there. Oh, but it was Trucy who took us to the Yōkai Parade in Nine Tails Vale, haha she’s such a quirky character <33 !! Yeah. Other stuff I can think of? Oh yeah, fucking Apollo Justice himself. Granted, he’s a main character in Dual Destinies despite his lacklustre role (and that says a lot), but again, such a missed opportunity for character development. He’s sandwiched between other characters such as Phoenix and Athena and unnecessary storylines (i’ll get to that in a bit) to the point where a lot of the choices in the narrative feel unsupported. Unlike Phoenix, he was always kinda annoyingly aggressive during trials, but his confidence boost between his own game and DD feels very unwarranted. If anything, Succession must have broke him, not made him bolder. Again, it feels inconsistent. What happened between the two games? Yeah, having the ceiling bash his head in was hilarious a great opportunity to explain why he turns into Shadow the Hedgehog in DD, but instead of that, he gets sidetracked after the second case and then just returns out of nowhere to be like I’m back, with a band-aid over my eye to show that I’ve been through a lot ! Sir, the victim in the fourth case is your childhood bestie - emote accordingly you piece of shit. Just... garbage, I can’t.

The Mistreatment of Athena Cykes: I’ve written this, which covers mostly everything I want to say, but... this was literally the absolute worst time to introduce a new protagonist. Even worse is the fact that she’s a playable female attorney, which we’ve never had before (apart from Mia) so her receiving the short end of the stick feels a bit coincidentally anti-feminist? idk I don’t want to be that bitch, but it sure as hell feels that way. I mean, add to that the atrocious outfit, that she specialises in emotions because she’s a girl and she’s always in her feelings UwU, and the fact that she can’t handle a single case on her own and needs papa Phoenix and step-bro Apollo to come to the rescue (I’m writing Pornhub titles now), and you’ve got yourself horrible writing for a female character. Why is she a damsel in distress? Why is she given 0 agency? She’s not allowed to handle a single case on her own and before we even know it, she’s suddenly turned into a plot device in Turnabout for Tomorrow and needs to be rescued once again. As much as I love her serendipity and can-do attitude, Athena shouldn’t have been introduced in DD. There were way too many unresolved plot holes from AJ to introduce a new main character, and she ultimately gets crushed under the weight of 130910293 other storylines. She and Apollo don’t share character development well because DD needs to develop one character at a time, apparently. And, as established above, the development is very shitty. Athena’s entire backstory depends on the mysterious new prosecutor’s fate, like we’ve never seen that before. Having the new attorney have a special connection with the prosecutor who is an antihero becomes very redundant the fifth time around, and then it happens again in SoJ, like ??? It’s really frustrating to think about the potential Athena had as a new face for the series. She reminds me a lot of Justine Courtney, another female character who is called upon from the team of writers only when the plot needs a device in order to move forward. Need a babysitter for Trucy in SoJ? Athena’s got your back! Need a central character to pin it all on in the final case as an obvious red herring? Justine Courtney’s on it fellas! *sigh*

Blackquill & Fulbright - The Ultimate Bromedy: Jesus. Before playing the game, if you told me Dual Destinies had a prisoner prosecutor and a secret agent detective, I’d probably not play it. Because it sounds like a work of surrealist fanfic. For me, these two concepts just say: ‘We’ve run out of ideas so let’s try something different, but we’re still gonna maintain the classic Ace Attorney tropes like the new attorney and prosecutor having a muddled past.’ Newsflash, group of writers I can only envision struggling around a big table with pencils in your mouths: it’s not who the prosecutor and detectives are, it’s the tropes you implement on them that make everything feel so damn repetitive. Beyond that, how does it even make sense for a prosecutor to be a prisoner? They briefly go on a tangent trying to explain it by saying oh it’s the Dark Age of the Law but by that point I had heard that phrase/excuse so many times that it just meant [blank]. Like literally [blank]. Blackquill is the unique prisoner-prosecutor because [blank]. Do you understand my frustration? I don’t think you do. I am a man who requires logic, explanations, fucking reason. Having the Dark Age of the Law be the equivalent of the Purge does not explain shit. Anything can go down - its a free-for-all ! Just like with every other issue I’ve outlined in this post, this could have been very easily fixed. Have Klavier be the prosecutor (for continuity purposes, not because he’s a good or well-written character or anything like that) and have Athena visit Blackquill in prison throughout the game because of the burden she feels after the details surrounding Metis’s murder fail to make sense as pointed out by Aura. That way, you’ve got a prosecutor who isn’t a literal prisoner, and a scapegoat for the final case. Blackquill’s entire shtick doesn’t make sense to me. Is he a prisoner, an emo, or a samurai? Why does he look like a skunk? Why does he pretend to be homicidal and violent until proven otherwise? To protect Athena? I think not. And then, his counterpart, Bobby Fulbright. Was this the writers’ effort to make fun of a foreigner’s view of an American? Because he’s the most stereotypical American thing I’ve seen since Redd White. The happy-go-lucky, can-do attitude drenched in red, white and blue, loud and aloof. It’s giving... I don’t even know what it’s giving. Fine, I’ll play along with the fact that you made the game’s detective the main villain (even though you already did the whole “unsuspecting character villain” thing with the main baddie in Investigations 2, two years prior). Fine. But at least make it good. At least execute it well. Similar to Blackquill, there’s a lot of questions surrounding Bobby. What’s with his design? What’s his motive? Why did he stick around after Metis’s death and literally forced himself into every possible Athena-related situation? Where’s Ema Skye? Did he eat her? What does he really look like? Is he a cyborg? How did he make that huge leap at the Space Centre? Perhaps the worst offense here is the final twist being that Fulbright is like this maniacal mastermind who can get away with everything because how?? Oh yeah ! He’s in control of his emotions ! ... I... I’m at a loss for words. You’re telling me the final piece of evidence to put Fulbright away is the fact that he couldn’t possibly feel happiness or anger or whatever the fuck when testifying ? That’s literally a textbook definition of a sociopath. A lot of stuff in the universe of Ace Attorney doesn’t make sense, but trying to make a gimmick out of literal psychology must be in the top 3 list. How did other twists work in the past? Well, Manfred Von Karma’s crime came to light by slowly unraveling bit by bit of the DL-6 incident as the final trial proceeding came to a close, and Matt Engarde’s twist took place mid-investigation for the sake of explaining it and establishing everything. Meanwhile, Dual Destinies waits until the very last minute to spring Bobby’s twist onto us and then... just goes with it? Like... please explain in a coherent way the what, the how, the when, and most importantly the why.

Cases that Make You Go Zzzz... Ok so I guess this is an area which can be the most subjective because of how people experience the cases, the order they played the games in, etc. I fully get it, a big part of why I dislike Stolen is because I played it outside, in the UK weather, at a bus stop. However, looking past sentiment, a lot of the DD cases suffer from lacklustre writing. Let’s take Monstrous, for example, which coincidentally is my least favourite case in the entire series (DGS is really trying it though). The villain is revealed in the opening cutscene and, mama, that was a choice. The characters are serving nothing. Phineas Filch and Jinx Tenma are so annoying, 0% helpful, no personality, no anything. In my first year of university I remember one of my creative writing tutors saying that if I’m bored to read my own work, then other people will most probably be bored too. I think the same applies here: would the writers ever want to speak to someone as dull and irritating as Filch and Jinx? I struggle to believe that. And yeah, we’ve had characters like these in the past, like Moe the clown, Ron Delite, hell even Lotta Hart could be grating at times. But other characters would balance them out, like Desirée, Gumshoe, dare I even say Regina motherfucking Berry. When all the characters in a case lack any personality, constantly scream out their lines, and fail to keep the player’s attention, it’s an issue. AA characters are usually allocated a single trait which can then be applied to their dialogue and reactions. April May is a sexy sweetheart with a barbaric side which only comes out when you anger her. Good. Lisa Basil might very well be a robot so you want to keep talking to her in order to find out. Better. The mysterious Adrian Andrews is keeping her darkest secrets hidden and knows all about the TV Studio drama but won’t tell. Excellent. Hugh O’Conner is 25 masquerading as 18. No, no no no, stop immediately. And it’s not just him. Aristotle Means is a Grecian statue, Solomon Starbuck suffers from depression, Bobby Fulrbight is constantly one-note. Juniper Woods... holy shit can I not stand her. Why did they even make an effort to push her into the forefront? So that Apollo’s already limited screen time is riddled with even more unresolved storylines, like an unnecessary love interest? Why was she a bitch at the academy and then, after everything is cleared up, goes back to her crocheting, Fairy Pokémon self? Almost all the characters are one-dimensional (with some notable exceptions like Norma DePlume and Myriam Scuttlebutt, to who I should recommend my chiropractor because they must be exhausted after carrying the episodes they’re in on their backs). They lack flavour, they fail to entice, they’re not memorable. And AA cases are character-driven, meaning absolutely no one would ever think oh boy, I can’t wait to play the next case so I can find out what the murder method is ! No one. The characters fail to support their own cases, which are already quite dull. The murders aren’t interesting, there’s no drive to solve them. The establishments/settings are too out-there, apart from academy because they’ve never done a school before but even that they managed to botch somehow. The trial proceedings are ok, I guess, because of shenanigans like propping Athena to look like Constance Courte, but meh. Perhaps the worst thing about the cases however, is the fact that the writers decided to remove the option to investigate every area. Why would you even think of doing that. In the trilogy, in cases which might not have been the best like Big Top or Stolen, there was always something to look forward to when you thought about Maya and Phoenix’s comments on irrelevant stuff in the background. The ladder vs stepladder debate, how Phoenix always curates the items, Charley the plant, Maya’s gluttony. These little details shaped the characters and the narrative in such a subtle way, and in the end we felt like we’ve known Maya since birth. In Dual Destinies, that doesn’t even exist. It could have been yet another easy solution to an issue such as Athena and Apollo not receiving enough character development.

DD’s Biggest Offense: It’s that there’s way too many stuff for it to handle. The game is literally trying to manage 329832 different stories all at once, in the span of 5 cases and one DLC case. Here’s a list: Phoenix returning as an attorney, Athena’s introduction, Apollo’s career, Apollo and Trucy being siblings, the Mason System, the Dark Age of the Law, Blackquil being a prisoner, how Athena and Blackquil know each other, the hostage take-over at the space centre, the Phantom, Edgeworth’s return, J*niper Woods’s crush on Apollo. It would be nonsensical to think that you could cover all of these to their full extent in a single game. It’s foolish, unrealistic. And, as a result, a lot of these storylines come out as half-baked. We never find out what the Dark Age of the Law is, how it came to be, why it’s here, how it affects cases, why is it important? It’s hyped up for 5 cases, the characters constantly reminding us that it’s around, but then... nothing happens. Nothing is explained, nothing comes of it. If Bobby is the game’s villain, who is completely unrelated to the Dark Age of the Law, then how does taking him down in the final act signal the end of this dark era? If it’s such an imminent threat that never affects us or gets resolved, why is it there? It’s just [blank], remember? The main cast doesn’t get enough time to shine or develop either. As established above, Phoenix, Apollo and Athena’s roles are shrouded in questions and plot holes. As a result, we don’t really care about these characters, and when the final case of the game rolls around and is like oh no, Athena is going to get sentenced to death if you don’t defend Blackquil properly! I was like ok I don’t really care babes, sorry. Looking back, defending Edgeworth, trying to save Maya from Shelly de Killer, finding out Godot was the culprit, Kay losing her memory; all of these moments were so gut-wrenching because the previous cases put in the work in order for the player to care for these characters. God forbid anyone touch a hair on Maya’s head because *growls*. But when I’ve seen Athena for like 2 seconds of gameplay and Trucy hasn’t been around for the entire game, the robot take-over feels so unreasonably dire, like so anti-climactic. Why should I care? You haven’t put in the work for me to care, why should I?

Closing Statement: There’s some stuff I’d like to mention before finalising my autopsy report of Dual Destinies. The 3D is absolutely abysmal and looks lazy. Yes this was 2013 DS era, but fuck do they look ugly. Couldn’t they have opted for cel-shaded Wind Waker-style graphics? Trying to emulate the original sprites in 3D form was a very bad move, it’s so distracting and takes away from the charm of the game. Secondly, my Turnabout Podcast co-host and soulmate has managed to convince me that Reclaimed is actually a decent case. It is a decent case. But it’s plagued by the game’s stink and the rest of the horrible decisions analysed above. As a solo outing, it’s really good. As a DLC to a bad game, it manages to outshine the rest while it sinks down with the ship. Monstrous feels like a crazy one-off adventure and that should have been the DLC, with a few added characters and some more pizzazz. As such, Academy could have been an establishing first case after the tutorial and Reclaimed could be DD’s crown jewel. So yeah. With that out of the way, this is it. I’ve spent my entire day writing this, I think this is everything I have major issues with. Recently, I’ve tried replaying Academy but I got easily bored so I stopped. I guess part of the reason I played it back when I did was either the fact that the pandemic had just started or because I was eager to see what happened next in the overall story. As bad as Apollo Justice was, a lot of its writing felt very much like Shu Takumi’s work, so I trusted it. It might not have been a game for me, but I do understand how people like it and I have fond memories of it. Dual Destinies on the other hand, doesn’t have that privilege.

#roll credits #Trace Memory or as you may know it: Another Code #lol #i'm a maniac #this is yet another achievement on this blog #if you can call it that #dual destinies #ace attorney #not sly cooper #i do like Athena i swear

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4ragon · 4 years ago

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Simon keyes for the analysis thing?

Okay, so real quick

Hi! You should play AAI2! It’s the best Ace Attorney game! It’s full of interesting twists and turns and is so much fun! And if you want to play AAI2, PLEASE do not continue to read this post! I’m serious! It’s going to be nothing but spoilers! Get out of here! Go look at my post about how Godot is a weird dipshit. Please. Anything. Go on. Shoo.

Okay, they’re gone. Phew. Anyway.

Simon Keyes! I think he’s one of the most interesting, dynamic, well rounded villains in the series. More than Blaise, more than Kristoph or Dahlia (two other stellar villains but that’s a note for another day). And I think a lot of that comes down to his backstory, his character motivation, and the parallels between him and both Miles and Kay.

I actually wasn’t sure I liked him after my first playthrough. Or, no, I did like him, I liked him a lot, but I wasn’t sure if I was sold on him being the Big Bad, the Final Boss, the Mastermind, when I got to the end of the game.

There were a lot of little parts about that final case that I thought were a bit of a letdown, especially after The Forgotten Turnabout, which is one of the best cases in the entire series. After all, we’d already saved Kay from Blaise, from the PIC, that constant, nebulous threat that had been hanging over Miles’s head since case 2. And Blaise is a really good villain, he represents all of the stuff we’d been dealing with since the beginning, all of the corruption and cruelty inherent in the system that Miles is trapped in.

But after having spent some time ruminating on it, and chatting with my friends, I think I’ve come to understand that Simon Keyes is just as important of an antagonist for the purposes of AAI2, thematically and just as a villain. (I don’t want to take all the credit here but I also don’t know if I should tag anybody? I don’t know my friends are very smart and cool and I don’t want to bother them.)

To start, Simon Keyes represents a lot of things. He is the failures of the system. His story is directly opposite to Miles’s own loss of his father. He actually challenges a lot of this new worldview that Miles had gained over the course of the entire series, and particularly what he’s experienced in AAI2 alone. After all, Miles trusted in his client, and was stabbed in the back. He followed the ideals of his father and Phoenix, and it backfired on him. And in addition, Simon is right in a lot of the ways that he challenges Miles. A lot of the accusations he throws around are not wholly inaccurate, all things considered, even if so many of them are twisted to fit his own cold worldview. I think Simon has seen the absolute worst of the court system in these games, and as a result I think he became one of the most compelling villains to date.

And I think having a character challenge Miles in this way was so important. Like, anyone who played Dual Destinies or Spirit of Justice before getting into the investigations games knows that Miles sticks with his whole prosecutor gig, but I think the important part of AAI2 is the why. Why does he make that decision, especially when the rest of the series shows the importance of the defense attorneys defending the people who have nowhere to turn. And Simon Keyes proves to Miles that change needs to occur on both sides of the bench, that he can change things, protect the people who need protecting, while still being his own person separate from the father he lost. Simon showed some of the flaws inherent in always believing in your client, but also gave Miles a completely new insight that was crucial to that decision to stick with being a prosecutor instead of becoming a defense attorney.

Oh, gosh, I feel like I haven’t even fully touched on Simon as a character. He’s manipulative and cunning and conniving. You can really feel that he’s never really received the love that he deserved and needed as a child, and it really shows in all of his interactions, especially with Miles and Kay. It’s so clear that he can’t even conceptualize being able to care about someone the way that the people around him care about each other, all stemming from the cruelty of the adults in his life that used him and tossed him aside. I find it so interesting that his redemption sort of goes hand in hand with the ‘redemption’ of Sirhan Dogen. And I use the word redemption loosely, I don’t think either of them are redeemed per se, but it’s clear that Dogen cares about this horrible boy that he saved on a whim, and Simon needs someone to care for him, even, you know, the worst man on the planet. And I think that despite the fact that Dogen is, you know, a super murderer, the fact that they both can at least find some sort of bizarre peace in their punishment is weirdly satisfying? Particularly for Simon, like. He deserves his punishment, but you can’t help but feel sorry for him, and it’s nice that this other horrible person has decided to do something good at the end of a very horrible life he lead.

But yeah, Simon is so well fleshed out from beginning to end. He’s a bad man, and he deserves the punishment that he receives, but he’s also a tragic figure deserving of sympathy, and was integral in shaping Miles into the person that he is by the end of the game.

#simon keyes #ace attorney #ace attorney investigations 2 spoilers #like major spoilers #aai2 #aai2 spoilers #j #meta

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mejomonster · 3 years ago

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Gonna be honest with you, I'm picky about who I watch any letsplay from so I just watched a silent letsplay. I looked around for non-silent letsplays before but they all personally annoyed me lol. :/ If you prefer to have people saying the dialogue and joking around, Press Buttons 'n Talk's letsplay is pretty well known in the fandom. I've never watched them before but I've heard some voice clips so give them a try if you want.

For a silent letsplay, there are many, but Noire Blue is the one I watched! The videos aren't hours long and are usually under 30 minutes so it's not overwhelming and they let the dialogue go slow enough for me to read.

Also I remembered there are a lot of side games in the series that aren't related to the main plot so if you'd like I can point out which games go in order and which ones are just side games (without giving spoilers of course lol). It's fine if it's not necessary. :)

thank you for this!!

Thank you for the Noire Blue channel recommendation I will go find them and bookmark them!

I sometimes like commentary when its either you know delving into themes a bit, or in this game's case doing voices, so I've been checking out Press Buttons n' Talk's playthrough so far. There's appeal to both kinds of lets plays though!

(Very slimly related but if anyone happens to be into the Shin Megami Tensei games, and/or knows/is learning japanese, there's a bunch of wonderful playthroughs on youtube of the games in japanese where the player just reads the dialogue but no additional commentary - which is nice if you're reading skill isn't quite to listening, or if you wanted to hear what audio with those games might be like since they don't have voiced lines in the original... a lot of the older SMT games are on youtube in this format. Search name and 実況プレ. Update, there's some lets plays like this in english. AgentShades has uploaded a voice-over Persona 2 Innocent Sin lets play with the grinding cut out which is quite cool).

From Wikipedia:

Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney is the first entry in the series. It was originally released for the Game Boy Advance in 2001 in Japan;[1] it has also been released for the Nintendo DS in 2005,[18] Microsoft Windows in 2008,[19] and the Wii and iOS in 2009.[20][21]

Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney – Justice for All was originally released for the Game Boy Advance in 2002 in Japan;[22] it has also been released for the Nintendo DS in 2006,[23] Microsoft Windows in 2008,[19] the Wii in 2010,[24] and iOS in 2012.

Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney – Trials and Tribulations was originally released for the Game Boy Advance in 2004 in Japan;[25] it has also been released for Microsoft Windows in 2006,[26] the Nintendo DS in 2007,[27] and the Wii in 2010.[28]

Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney was released for the Nintendo DS in 2007 in Japan[29] and in 2008 in the West,[30][31] for iOS and Android in 2016,[32][33] and for Nintendo 3DS in 2017.[34]

Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney – Dual Destinies was originally released for the Nintendo 3DS in 2013 in Japan, North America and Europe; outside of Japan, it was given a digital-only release.[35][36] It has also been released for iOS in 2014,[37][38] and Android in 2017.[39][40]

Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney – Spirit of Justice was released for the Nintendo 3DS in 2016 in Japan, North America and Europe. Like Dual Destinies, it was given a digital-only release outside Japan.[5][10] It was released for iOS and Android in 2017.[41]

I am guessing, main series wise, I can just look these up in order if I'd like to watch the lets plays? Alternatively I am excited to see some of these say for Android which I'm assuming means I may be able to play them on my phone... (but with games like the old Final Fantasy's its not generally recommended to play them on phone its a nightmare)

This is what I got from wikipedia for Side Games:

Spin-offs[edit]Ace Attorney Investigations series[edit]

Ace Attorney Investigations: Miles Edgeworth is the first entry in the Investigations spin-off series. It was released for the Nintendo DS in 2009 in Japan[7] and in 2010 in the West;[42] it has also been released for Android and iOS in 2017.[43][44]

Ace Attorney Investigations 2 is the second entry in the Investigations series. It was released for the Nintendo DS in 2011 in Japan;[8] it has also been released for Android and iOS in 2017.[45] It has not been released in the West and is the only game in the series that has not had an official English language translation.[46]

The Great Ace Attorney series[edit]

The Great Ace Attorney: Adventures is the first entry in The Great Ace Attorney series.[47] It was released for the Nintendo 3DS in 2015 in Japan;[6] it has also been released for Android and iOS in 2017 in Japan.[48][49]

The Great Ace Attorney 2: Resolve is the second entry in The Great Ace Attorney series.[50] It was released for the Nintendo 3DS in 2017 in Japan;[11] it has also been released for Android and iOS in 2018 in Japan.[51]The Great Ace Attorney Chronicles is a compilation of both Adventures and Resolve released in July 2021 for Nintendo Switch, PlayStation 4, and Microsoft Windows. This was the first time both games were made officially available outside of Japan.[52]

Professor Layton crossover[edit]

Professor Layton vs. Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney is a crossover between Ace Attorney and the Professor Layton series. It was released for the Nintendo 3DS in 2012 in Japan[9] and in 2014 in the West.[53]

I am. Mildly confused because I only own playstation (my computer is too weak to play games, have no nintendo stuff etc), and it appears a Side Game is all I could play on ps4 but I thought there was a main-game compilation on ps4 mm.

If I may ask, do you have any favorite Ace Attorney games I may want to check out first? (I am guessing the main series? and maybe your favorite spin offs... I will probably go for the main series first just in order)

Unrelated, but if you have ever played Kingdom Hearts you know how complicated trying to figure out the order games go in plot wise versus play-wise can be adkdjfdjfj, I am making the guess that like KH its better to just try to play/check out Ace Attorney in Release Order main story wise.

Also. I heard there's an anime??? I know there's a musical as well.

#replies #ask #thank you for this #ace attorney #anonymous

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