#like i don't care if you ship Louis with her and think their relationship was cute

[gracefullou]

Remembering how you all were so twisted about Always You because Louis wrote it about Eleanor and made that 100% clear to everyone with his tweets. And you couldn't accept that he actually loved her and insisted she was just a PR employee. So funny to see you all embracing it now 😂

What are you talking about? I wasn't even a fan at the time 😭. Always you is pop perfection regardless of who it's about, not saying it's about Eleanor (probably not) but if it is i don't care. PS: this blog is not a safe space for elounouries <3

[atruththatyoudeny]

Happy 28th! Here are all the amazing fics I read this month:

Sewn Into You | tiltreality33 | [167k] Harry Styles thinks soulmates are a fairytale, or in other words-a lie. He has no interest in entertaining anything that has anything to do with the very name that had been etched along his collarbone since his eighteenth birthday. Louis Tomlinson won't be answering to another alpha for the rest of his life if he can help it. Fuck happy endings, his soul mate can choke on it. Problem is, Harry needs a personal assistant to save his family's business, Louis needs the cash to officially move off of his childhood best-friend's couch. They can manage. Surely, nothing will go wrong.

The weekend | words_of_my_own | [92k] They make the bed together, Louis with his clothes on and Harry still naked, and they laugh a bit about it. But Harry is also rather chuffed about the fact that Louis thirstily lingers with his look on his body more often than not. When Harry is dressed too, he walks up to Louis, where he waits by the door. “I wanna kiss you. Is that bad?” He whispers, crowding Louis against the back of the door, leaning in close to his face. “I don’t care about the answer, just do it already.” Louis whispers back and grabs Harry by his neck and pulls him in. ******************** In a universe where Harry's and Louis' respective relationships are idling - without them fully realising it before - they meet at a swinger weekend. Louis is an experienced swinger goer, and even though Harry probably is the most attractive guy he's ever wanted to hook up with at a party like this, he's supposed to be just that: another swinger hookup. Harry has never swinged before and soon finds it slightly hard to distinguish between the want for sexual exploration and the want for one particular guy.

Fight For Us | FallingLikeThis | [11k] Louis isn’t okay. It’s beyond wrong, the way they’re held in a cage waiting to be chosen for mating. It’s the way it’s been all Louis’ life, but he never wanted to end up like this. He’d hoped against hope that he’d present as a beta since they don’t have these same restrictions on them. They don’t have to adhere to their biology. And one dark night, long after all of the other omegas in the pen have fallen asleep, biology comes calling for Louis.

Ocean Wave Blues | babyhoneyhslt | [49k] After the gruesome death of his Alpha, Harry takes over as the Captain of the Rose Arrow. Trying his best to uphold her reputation as being the most dreadful pirate ship to sail the Seven Seas. With the help of his alpha-quartermaster Niall, he manages to keep his secondary gender hidden from everyone except his most trusted crew, as he operates under his late Alpha’s name. Captain Payne. Everything changes when his ship is taken hostage by Pirate Captain Louis. To keep his crew, and himself, alive, Harry must play the part of dutiful Omega who’s waiting for his Alpha’s return.

True Colours | Darling28 | [90k] Harry has everything he wanted for now; his own yoga studio in London and hardly any contact with his family. Yes, he's a bit lonely, but that's okay. It's better than having a new participant who disrupts the class with his swearing and brings down Harry's beautifully constructed self-image with his bum in those tight leggings. It's a hard road to self-acceptance and breaking free from the shackles of the past, but Louis is always by his side. Until Harry suddenly wants more and everything is once again on the brink of collapse.

don't be afraid to love (and love again) | localopa | [83k] All Louis’ life, he’s known he’s been different. There’s always been something at odds about how he felt. As the eldest daughter of seven kids, he knew something was wrong with his body. Something was off, he just couldn’t quite put his finger on it. His mum dressed him in dresses and tights, plaits in his hair as he wandered around with the local neighborhood boys. They called him a girl, called him she and Rosemary when his name is Louis. He had told the boys as such, but they would tell him Louis is a boy’s name, not a girl’s. Louis is a boy. He knows he is. or the one where louis is trans and afraid, harry is cis and brave, and being 100% yourself is easier said than done.

[roeyliteratiforever]

No show endgame ship has ever angered me as much as Chuck and Blair. There are many endgame ships that I don't like at all such as Ross and Rachel, Lucas and Peyton, Kelso and Jackie etc...but still no endgame ship has ever made me as mad as Chair. Blair did not deserve to end up with her abuser. I will stand on this hill forever. I can't get over how dirty they did her. Blair was starting to grow to break the trauma bond she had with Chuck, she was becoming independent, strong and gaining her confidence back. She was finally in a place where she was happy and in a healthy relationship, and then the writers strip all that development she had away just so she could end up with her abuser. Chuck Bass is the worst type of person and it makes me sick to my stomach to think she ends up with that man! I know Chair is a popular ship but I don't care my girl Blair deserved so much better than the ending she got and I'll never get over it! It literally infuriates me to no end to think she ended up with Chuck!

"I loved Chuck for so long and he's punished me for it. He ended up treating me like something he owned not like something he earned."

He treated her so terrible he made her feel so bad countless times to the point he started to break her down. He mentally, emotionally, and physically abused her. He told her he didn't want her anymore then compares her to an animal. He sold her for a hotel and physically assaulted her, and he never gets better!

Blair: "Louis asked me to marry him." Chuck: "You won't marry anyone else, you're mine." Blair: "I wanted to be. I wanted it so badly. Not anymore." Chuck: "You're mine, Blair." Blair: "No! Stop it Chuck! I said it's over."

He's awful from start to finish and continues to abuse her throughout the course of the show so she is stuck in a trauma bond with him and no matter how awful he treats her she continues to go back to him. This is textbook abusive relationship. It will never not make me angry how the writers had her end up with him.

He is so awful to her and I just wanted so much better for her. Everytime I think about how they minimized her to be with Chuck and took away her development I get so upset.

[doughguts-art]

Okay okay back with more Bandit questions and observations now!!! Hi!!! First off, what's the model of his gun? Literally just curious, really doesn't mean anything unless I feel like drawing it lmao. Secondly, what's his thoughts on the people in power/the guardians + the queen (I'm lumping the Judge into the guardians)? You said he won't work when he can survive well on his own, but does his dislike stretch out to even wishing harm on the guardians? Actually, does he know if a guardian dies, their Zone dies, too? How knowledgeable is he on the world of OFF's lore and how it functions?? Thirdly, does he have any friends I should know about? You drew him interacting with Project Goldfinch/Just Finch to break up the text in my first ask, what's their relationship? Does Bandit scam him to hell and back, or do they just casually chat every now and then? Fourthly, I VERY BRIEFLY checked out Ask Bandit and here are some observations I made: Uno, how come you ship him with Red from Animal Crossing? Is it cuz they both steal and resell?? If so, that's hilarious and I love your sense of humor. Dos, when drawing him with Elsen 7 I did not know Bandit currently resides in Zone Three, because 7 lives in Zone One. This whole time I was under the impression he travels through Zones for some reason lol? I guess that's my curse of having a handful of ECU Elsen that do that themselves lmao. Last but not least, not something Ask Bandit related, just generally speaking, would you like to see any future doodles I make of Bandit, whether he's interacting with my own OCs or otherwise? If not, I totally get it lol. Sorry if this is too many questions btw!! You're free to infiltrate my inbox with silly questions too if you want, just to make it more fair. Thank you! :]

Apologies in advance, I didn't make any new Bandit art for this post so I'm just linking something I drew in April that I don't think I shared to tumblr XD Answer time!

I modeled Bandit's gun after a Glock?? Kinda?? I didn't really reference a specific model, more like loosely inspired. I probably should create a prop-reference for it, but I haven't yet.

Bandit's dislike for authority does not stretch to wanting to take out the guardians. It would be counter-intuitive to his role as a merchant to kill off his customers by killing off the guardians. Bandit cares too much about profit, and although the guardians are annoying, without them he wouldn't have profit.

Bandit is fully aware on how the world of OFF works, it's inner workings, and other meta things.

Bandit will say anyone is his friend, even if they clearly hate him. Louis would be the only one that would truly think of Bandit as a friend (except maybe my elsen-sona, but they're a mary-sue type oc and should probably not be counted if we're talking in-universe/story lol)

As Finch is the protagonist in my game concept, Bandit will be the merchant selling them items. Finch is distrusting of Bandit, but sees him as a necessity in their mission. I do have an idea where Bandit does steal something from Finch to propel the plot, but who knows if that'll stay in the final lol

Bandit x Redd is a joke ship created by @brandy-elsen (tagging the account it was posted on and not your current account because I do not wanna waste a tag on this I am sorry Brandy AHHSGFG). All the credits to her for the comedic genius. I think you guessed right as to why that ship exists tho. I just drew it for that post because it met the "two pieces of fanart" criteria I set.

Bandit travels the zones, your initial assumption was right. He is only in Zone 3 on the askbandit blog because of the story being told on there. He's gotta refill his stock of sugar manually since sugar happens to be one of the things he cannot magically pull from his pack.

I would love to see future doodles you make of Bandit! I like collecting all the fanart I get and posting it (with credits/links) to his gallery on toyhouse.

I'm terrible with asking questions, but I'll keep your offer in mind if I have any in the future! :D

a dapper Bandit in a suit

[licncourt]

Why don't you ever speak of w/w relationships with vampires I'd love to read a sapphic vampire fic by you!!

That's so sweet!! Honestly I would love to write one, but in terms of VC, it's hard to write w/w ships because Anne did not gaf about female characters 😭 There just isn't that much to work with and the way she wrote women has always left a bad taste in my mouth. I love Gabriella and Claudia, but that's obviously not romance material and I think Akasha is super cool, but her whole existence is just AR's feminist straw man. I think Gabrielle/Jesse is fun, but I've never felt particularly drawn to Jesse because Anne didn't write her like SHE cared.

I know a lot of people thrive on fleshing out characters with very little going on in the narrative, but I just struggle to get inspired if it didn't seem like the author was. If Louis had started off the way he ended up being written later, I wouldn't have loved him the way I do.

[kaelio]

please don’t fn kill me but Marius de Romanus and his overall relationship with Armand 🔥

Bonus round: David Talbot x Marius as a ship🔥

Thank you and please enjoy your day

my aaaabsolutely hottest take is that the fandom is insanely selective about what problematic stuff they think "counts". everyone's got a set number of things that they accept from the canon and things they don't. they have things they de-rice-ify and things they don't. e.g. I have NEVER seen the insanely pornographic description of lestat eating the children in the iwtv novel ever brought up because it's gross so we all pretend it's not real. I think it's fine people do this. I don't even think people SHOULD try to have a consistent read of the vampire chronicles books. I think that if we did, it would be an indictment of them and not a compliment. For example, truth be told, I hate most pixar movies. hate them. any film that is getting EXACTLY the same audience reaction from virtually every single audience member at exactly the same points with surgical precision might be an excellent commercial product but it's meaningless art.

however, it should never be an expectation that there are any components that people "have" to regard in a specific way, and especially for this specific property that is asinine. YOUR way of chewing over them and what YOU think about them is what matters. if it gets YOU horny enough to bring yourself to completion. there should be no fucking tribunal where we all get together and decide what anyone else has to think. I like Devil's Minion because it's fucking sick. I think gabrielle eating polar bears (canon as per Armand) is fucking funny in a way that I wouldn't think some random asshole shooting polar bears is funny. i think it's funny the fandom never thinks about how louis burning the fuck out of antoine was pretty fucked up from antoine's point of view. i think it's fine louis/claudia is canon in the books because she IS an adult, and no number of derivative creepy hentai visual novels will change that, and in fact it's cruel to consider book-Claudia to be a child because for her it's basically a medical condition.

I do however think that a lot of people in this fandom 1) haven't really read many older books and 2) maybe haven't read many books at all. hell, maybe 3) haven't even read these books. some of the interpretations strike me as extremely strange, particularly because i'd argue some of the canon events are worse in a context people sometimes don't seem to be aware of. or every once in a while someone will say something about one character and then be convinced e.g. khayman is smol cream puff and I'm like... hmm. hmm. sybelle for all intents and purposes apparently basically owns living benjamin and i'm not sure i've ever seen anyone worry about it beyond the intense discomfort with the benjamin character overall

anne rice loved historical fiction (which also, I feel inclined to add, was a lot harder to write in the 1990s than it is today because we have information resources that are just INSANE compared to then--you should see what a doctorate looked like in 1995 vs 2022). there are conceits intrinsic to historical fiction. you don't have to like them but people who read historical fiction have a tacit understanding of them. I actually read far less historical fiction than I read nonfiction about history--and not just american or eurasian history. (in the court of the jiajing emperor circa 1547, the 300+ new concubines were between 11 and 14). 'the past is a foreign country' in-fuckin'-deed, not just in terms of the periods the books describe but the books themselves. i just posted an article about a family that took their kids on a sailing trip around the world's oceans in the 1970s and it is UNFATHOMABLE to someone today. and that's living history. when my grandmother took my dad and his siblings to tunisia in the late 1960s, my dad disappeared for 3 DAYS. he was 14. and his mom barely cared, assumed he'd show up again at some point, which obviously he did. my other grandmother's cousin was beheaded in the yard in the 1930s in a rural area and back then crimes like that just were not solved. those things are living memory. you just have to decide if you think a 2020s lens on a 90s book about the 1790s means the content is disqualifying and if the answer is "yes" you are wholly entitled to that, but it is not a requirement for any other segment of the readership

i didn't care about marius at all when i read tvl/qotd/tva in... whatever fucking year a million billion years ago i read them the first time (in catholic school lmao), but at this point i'm stubbornly contrary about it because I think most of the reaction is knee-jerk and reflexive, predicated on tumblr's paper-thin politics, and especially crazy in the sense of what the show now "has" to do. the show didn't even make louis a white slaveowner, thank god! they don't "have" to do shit with anyone. for accountability? FOR ACCOUNTABILITY?? are you high?? accountable to whom, for what, when bandying about with these blights on humankind? anyway the showrunners can change anything they want. they might even have bianca not sleep with an "underage" armand, ooohhhh something i've seen mentioned all of fuckall number of times (thats different because blah blah blah blah blah). and there doesn't even seem to be a downside to turning benjamin or sybelle, so people going on about that part like... yeah, there really should have been, but "should have been" is also kind of antithetical to how this specific canon operates. these books are so fucking FRUSTRATING! but what happened, happened. engage with your canon, but be able to separate out canon-canon. this isn't something that's unique to me and these books, it's most of what killed my interest in my last fandom. take whatever read you want, but learn to differentiate what the canon did and what you would have preferred it did.

armand's relationship with marius is very very complicated and very very interesting but for virtually none of the reasons the fandom pays the remotest attention to. rice was really good at balancing out why people became vampires and what that means and then how they avoid the intense attrition associated with the lifestyle and their various absolutely crippling personality flaws and mental illnesses and that is all over how those two interact. and guess what! as soon as you filter them into "good vampires" and "bad vampires" you have broken the entire world these characters exist in. you have thematically broken it. you have irrevocably and irretrievably broken what makes these books interesting.

david is boring. actually my ship of choice for marius is probably thorne. i think there's a ton of meaty thematic shit in there.

e: as an aside, in life you will have to learn to navigate and negotiate within power structures. they are not going anywhere. the other obsession with perfectly equal relationships etc-- you can idealize that, and that's great. the books aren't about a world where that will be the situation between virtually anyone, and it's rarely if ever the situation in reality either. this is more a loustat comment but it bleeds into everything.

[monstersinthecosmos]

i'm curious to know why you're not a big fan of modern day armand x marius!

In some ways I can't really explain this because it's like, why do any of us ship anything? It just doesn't really click for me in the way that any other random ship doesn't click for me.

I think there's a version of them that I could buy if someone wrote it out and sold it to me, where they put in a lot of work to heal themselves & each other to a point where they make sense as a couple, but where canon leaves off I just do not see it at all. And that's the beauty of fanworks, like our job as fic writers is to convince the reader that this is plausible.

But when I think of each of them in the modern day, and how strained their relationship is, I just cannot really connect with what they could possibly see in each other or how it could possibly work.

Armand is SUCH a different person than he was in Venice and I feel so strongly about his need for respect and his need for boundaries so that he can be the person he's meant to be. And I'm not sure Marius will EVER see him as an equal, even at their best. Armand needs to be treated like a grown up, you know? I want him with people who respect his feelings fully and who take him seriously and see him as a complete person. (This is him and Louis lol.)

I also think Armand seriously & deeply needs time with people who don't need him to be a caretaker. I think it's natural for him to want to play that role and make a home for everybody and take charge, but I think there's a balance in here somewhere in that he can do things that make him feel good and centered without feeling like he has to. And Marius in the modern day is SO deeply traumatized I don't like Armand being burdened with it. I think it's outside of the scope of what he can deal with, and this was somewhat like their dynamic in Venice, that Marius at times relied on him emotionally in a way that was too much.

I just think everyone needs to put their own oxygen masks on before helping others!

And for Marius, I just think he's like so broken. Like within his lifespan I still think that the Akasha wound is WAY too fresh; UNFORTUNATELY I WILL BE SAYING THIS FOR MY ENTIRE LIFE BECAUSE I'M A MERE MORTAL but it's only been 30 years, right? Vs. the 2000 years he'd cared for her.

Part of Marius healing (to me) is also him dealing with some of his ego issues, because I think he's created this shell for himself as his own way to cope with immortality and the burden of The Parents and all the existential bullshit that entailed. And that kinda means like, being able to treat Armand as an equal (or anyone else) and the practice to get there and the work it takes might need to be done with a peer like Pandora or Mael. And those two particularly I think have seen him at his messiest and ugliest and imo are the only people in the world who actually know him.

He's also harmed Armand SO MUCH that I don't think Armand can be that person, or least I don't think it's fair for Armand to be that person. It kinda reminds me of the Ring Theory with grief/support except there's this like layer of parentification that I'm not sure how to plop into an infographic but

Basically, I imagine Armand being the very center, and Marius directly outside of him because he's the parent, and because he owes Armand the space lol. Marius should be traumadumping OUTWARD away from Armand while he works through his problems. LEAVE ARMAND OUT OF THIS LOL.

I think Marius is like, deeply hurt by things that have happened in the Coven since QOTD (even actually since TVL when Akasha drank from Lestat) and like, I don't get the feeling that he's really dealt with it meaningfully because he tries so hard to be stoic and like logic&reason his way out of feeling his feelings. I don't think he ever really had that reckoning in canon. And like I think him being hurt by Armand is completely genuine, even if he has to be accountable for his own part in it, and that's something they absolutely should talk about. Maybe it's even the conversation that Blood Communion alluded to.

But to me, canon ends at Blood Communion, and I don't see like a single conversation as enough to heal this tremendous schism between them.

I just think they're both so deeply disappointed in each other and it's gonna be like centuries before they can even begin repairing it.

I CAN'T EVEN CONCEPTUALIZE HOW LONG IT WILL TAKE FOR THEM TO GET TO A PLACE WHERE IT'S OKAY. I believe they'll get there, but. I just don't see it and I haven't yet cracked the seal on writing post-canon sci fi taking place 200 years from now.

So anyway people ship things for a million reasons and like sometimes it's as simple as "hot" and sometimes it's "i want them to destroy each other" and sometimes it's domestic fluff and sometimes it's even all these exact points I've made--breaking them to pieces so that they can heal each other--but for me personally it just doesn't really do it for me. All the reasons I listed could be THE reason why someone else ships them in present day!! 😂 I just feel like so emotional and opinionated about what I want Marius to get up to in the modern day and I don't think Armand can help him. At least not in the Kacyverse!!!!! 😂😂

[gracefullou]

i’m glad you addressed the people who are obsessed with proving his heterosexuality too. i’ve seen an array of weird comments on twitter about him fucking every women he comes in contact with. how he’s in a relationship with krystle and was the reason she broke up with her husband (which there’s no proof of that), like if you have an opinion that’s fine. personally i think he might be queer, but i’m sick and tired of people who take it too far. also people who are adamant that he’s gay when, as another anon said, bisexuality exists. gay, bi, queer, straight, doesn’t matter. people who make him the “woman” of the relationship (which is both misogynistic and homophobic). he can be queer and still be a laddie lad. also, he’s a talented musician and a good, kind person, and regardless of if he’s queer or not he’s shown support for the lgbtq+ community, and to me that’s all that matters. i don’t want him to become the latest of being forced to come out to appease people.

I agree with everything you said, anon. His sexuality is nobody's business but his own. I find this obsession really weird. Like why do you care if your fav sleeps with women, men or both? His music is sooo good, he's a good person, avoids drama as much as he can. What more do you want? Like what are you trying to achieve with this obsession? What do you think is the consequence of yours and hundreds of thousands of others' obsession with a person's sexuality? Bc from where i see it, either he is in fact queer and the people who want him to be gay so bad (let's be real it's not even gay it's Hrrysexual) are basically outing him or at least trying to DAILY or, he's not queer but those "fans" are pressuring him daily to "act" like he is by using gay stereotypes and be another queerbaiter like his husband. I don't think deep down they even care what he truly is, they just want him to act like Hrrysexual so they keep their epic gay lovestory alive. They don't care that there is a possibility they spent years of their lives making someone so uncomfortable and impacting his career badly just bc his sexuality doesn't suit their beliefs. Even when he said multiple times that Larry is not real. How fucked up is that? And no matter the angle you see it from, it IS homophobic. So much for championning and supporting the lgbtq community larries think they do 🙄. And don't get me started on those fans who ship him with any woman he comes in contact with bc while i think these fans are basically the consequence of larries' existence (anti- larries if you will, i don't think they would you exist otherwise) and they're mostly harmless bc there are few of them, it is still very offensive to both Louis and the women. Louis respects women, and has never given us a reason to think otherwise. He can be near a woman and not want to f*ck her, that much is a given. And he for sure will not get involved with his employee. Like seriously they need to stop thinking so low of him

[williamaltman]

Yes I "can excuse murder but not domestic violence" on a TV show.

No one cares about random extras or minor characters that Lestat uses to feed. We care about Louis. Actually, it's not even just that. I wouldn't care if he did that to Armand. We care about it being done to Louis because he's someone Lestat loves and is in a relationship with. The fact that the term "domestic violence" even exists already shows violence against a partner is seen as different (and possibly worse) than to a random person.

On a story where the main characters are vampires, creatures who naturally kill people because they need/want their blood, the detachment from that kind of violence and the difference between that VS hurting someone they love for no good reason is even bigger.

This a relationship that people are supposed to care about. Yes everyone knows it's a toxic one, but we're still supposed to care about it, and dare I say, root for it, since they are endgame in the books and the show is focusing on their relationship even more than the source material. To an extent, you can see that even the writers somewhat understand this. Lestat doing that to Louis is a huge emotional climax. Lestat killing randos to feed is not. Obviously they did not think they went too far and that the scene shouldn't have happened while I do, but they do understand the difference between it vs killing random people. So can you PLEASE try to understand that instead of making those "I cAn ExCuSe mUrDeR bUt NoT dOmEsTiC aBuSE~ jokes and shady comments as if people who don't feel the same as you are idiots?

When it comes to just my own emotions, if it was "just" Lestat punching him I wouldn't be as mad. It would still be domestic abuse but it wouldn't disturb me. To see him drag Louis who's already beaten to a pulp and bloody in the ground was disturbing. Mostly the fact that he held him so up in the sky (like seriously, that's not just one/two floors, it was HIGH) and threw him was disturbing. Claudia's reaction seeing that happen to her father was disturbing. If you can easily brush that off and go back to happily shipping them again the next minute, that's good for you, but it's not so easy for everyone.

"Yeah but it's a dark roman-" I have read the damn book. I've seen the movie. I've read interviews before the show started. I saw the trailers. I saw the promos. I didn't just randomly play the show blind and got shocked with what I got. I had perfectly appropriate expectations. This feels like when people say the graphic rape in GOT was all justified because ~that's just how it is~ in Westeros.

The fact that their relationship was already toxic is just another reason why I didn't want that. Because I thought it was already toxic enough and they didn't need to taint it even further. The show portrayed their relationship in a much more romantic way than the first book (the "original tapes" where Louis is just dissing Lestat is probably even a reference to that!), so the fact that they also made it even worse than it ever was there did surprise me.

I didn't want to make a post talking about this, cause I wanted to just say literally everything I think about the show in one big post, and cause I managed to mostly stay quiet when the episode aired. But back then I wasn't caught up and got spoiled/spoiled myself after seeing the discourse. Now after I've seen it in context, and more recently saw more comments about it, the emotions came back.

If you have a bad reaction to people criticizing a piece of media you enjoy, that's because you care about it. So try to understand how it feels for other people when it's not just a fan's bitter comment upsetting them, but this very content that they care about itself.

[artandhijinks]

I'm going to kind of do a follow up post to this one and this one to address some issues that have been brought up in comments, tags and reblogs. I've also received quite a bit of hateful and abusive anonymous ask and they will be shut off until further noticed because the internet cannot be trusted.

Yes, the criticism that Claudia the female character of color has no agency of her own is valid. But here's a quick history lesson. Due to the time period she would be considered Louis's ward/property until she found a husband. Then she would be considered his ward/property. Because women weren't even allowed the right to vote until 1920 and in fact, in banks were legally allowed to deny unmarried women their own bank account until 1974. So women were still technically financially dependent on their husband until 1974. Now she probably could have got married even though she was 14. My own grandmother got married at 14 in 1959. But there is no way that's going to fly in a TV show in this day and age. And we have a book to follow plot wise and this is just the treatment of women. The treatment of people of color is even worse. So I get where this complaint is coming from? And it's even worse the further back in history you go. However I would like to add more diversity to this story. That's why I'm really rooting for a lot of race swapping when it makes historical sense. But I still think you guys are looking at this the wrong way. Here me out

The modern day part of the story is going to be the make or break point. Not what happens in the past. It's going to be the modern day. But we don't know what's going on in the modern day. As long as the characters of color now have agency can stand up to their abusive makers. That is what matters. Now for the Louis and Lestat relationship, if they were human that's an abusive relationship. Get out of there but they are vampires. They have eternity to work on themselves and to try to change and work this out. The same thing goes for Daniel and Armand. Do you think the devil's minion when Armand basically stalks Daniel all over the globe and gets him addicted to his blood is healthy. But again we don't fully know what's going on in the modern day.

But I can tell you to justify them staying together and being the end game ship even though they were toxic in the past in the modern day, both Louis and Lestat are going to have to have a relationship with healthy boundaries and Daniel and Armand are in the same boat. Now I love the devil's minion and I'm totally looking forward to this being explored in both the past and its full unhealthy crazy toxic form and the modern day in hopefully a healthier form. But old man Daniel is definitely going to have to lay down some boundaries otherwise they're going to go down the same road as Louis and Lestat did in the past. If they are not at that point yet they need to be at least working to that point. Where they can have healthy boundaries. This is going to be a learning curve for everyone involved.

And as for the changes to Marius's fledglings that I've mentioned earlier. Here is what I would like for them in the modern day.

Let's start with Pandora I would like her to be Indian. Living somewhere far away from Marius. In the books she refuses to be in the same room with him The only exception was when they had to take down Akasha. So this would include her blocking him in every form possible and never contacting him again completely ignoring his existence. She hasn't seen him since he stood her up and he she's never looked back. I ship her with Gabrielle. They've both survived abusive husbands that have treated them like property and an extension of themselves. They wouldn't try to control each other and would probably be living off somewhere in the woods. She wouldn't care that Gabrielle sleeps in the dirt every day and would occasionally just disappear for a little while but she'd always come back her. She would pick up hobbies related to Indian culture because she probably never really learned anything about it until Marius stood her up and she decided to never look back, even though that's the culture of her mother. I could see her getting really good at some of those Indian embroidery techniques where they use actual gold thread or glass/mirrors beads. That just seems like a vampire hobby. It's super detailed and requires a ridiculous amount of time and effort to master again. It seems like a vampire hobby

Then we have Bianca. I mentioned before Venice at the time of the Renaissance had a large African and ottoman Muslim population simply because it was one of the largest and busiest ports in the world at the time. Doesn't this sound a lot like a Renaissance New Orleans? I'm beginning to see some similarities here And it's mentioned somewhere that Marius might have made her because she looked a lot like Pandora. So there's the reason to go ottoman. I would prefer they go African. From what I can tell with my research, the African and ottoman population we're part of just about every social class. This did include slaves but also had indentured servants, the working class and some wealthy merchants. But I would want her to be living her best life somewhere in Africa. Maybe the Caribbean. Far away from Marius if she's African learning everything she can about whatever part of Africa she believes she's from. Again reclaiming that culture that was taken from her. Have her pick up a hobby we know Marius taught most of his fledglings how to paint in the traditional Renaissance style. I could see her being petty and now learning as many of the traditional African crafts to preserve them. Because she's immortal and some of these traditions are at risk of dying out, so they would be preserved with her all she has to do is find someone to teach every few decades. She would be slightly more hospitable if Marius calls asking for something but she still would have no problem telling him to go to go screw himself if she doesn't want to help him do whatever he needs help with

Then we have Armand. Not only does he have Marius to recover from, he also has the satanic cult and all that brainwashing recover from. And can someone correct me if I'm wrong but if I remember correctly didn't he believe if Marius was dead up until Queen of the Damned? He's the one that is going to struggle the most with boundaries when it comes to Marius thinking he was dead combined with severe Stockholm syndrome and all the grooming. But he also has Daniel if they can have a healthy relationship at that point. Daniel would have no problem advocating on his behalf when it comes to Marius. We know he has no problem telling very powerful vampires exactly what he thinks even if it might get him killed. If him and Daniel are not in a good place at this point. Louis would also have no problem helping Armand. They may not be an endgame ship, but they are still good friends

So yes, in the past these characters probably will have little agency in the past. That's just how history was women and people of color were treated as second class citizens at best more commonly they were treated as property. They're going to have to be very careful how they show the past abuse and mistreatment these characters go through. But as long as they have found their agency in the present day. I think we are in a good place.

But I do think this is the direction they're heading at least for Marius and his fledgling since I do think it's highly unlikely David is going to be in the show unless they want to make him a villain cuz I think that's the only way to do it. But that trigger the book purest worse than they already are. So some of his bad traits like the whole colonizer issue are going to Marius because it would be super easy to do it because he's the literal embodiment of western civilization as a Roman philosopher. That leaves the other non-problematic parts of his story going to Daniel they've already set this up by aging him up.

[alarrytale]

I think anon is overexaggerating about Nick saying he is straight many times. Context is really important. When he was doing PH him and Sofia didn't have a PR relationship but they played up to the cameras, like all actors do, to sell the movie. The media did the whole "are they or aren't they dating" thing. In an interview Nick made a comment about ex girlfriends and Sofia gave him a funny look. It threw her off lmao. Iirc he also made a comment about being straight during PH era. In his more recent interviews the interviewer was really pressuring him to talk about his sexuality and it was uncomfortable. The interviewer kept assuming his sexuality and he didn't correct them. Then there was a tweet about being an ally when he worked with GLAAD. I'm not saying that he isn't straight but I don't find that proof enough that he is, or him saying he had a crush on Anne Hathaway when he was younger or whatever. He hasn't said anything that Louis hasn't said when pressured to talk about his sexuality. So I'm still keeping an open mind. If he starts making out with women and shows sexual chemistry towards them then I'll change my mind. But not based on the context of the interviews alone. Would love to hear your opinion of the Variety interview Marte! Also, just like HL's fandoms he does have het fans who try and shut down any talk about his sexuality and ship him with every woman but at the moment they seem the minority. It might change as he gets more famous.

Anon, you are going to roll over laughing at the anon i got seconds before yours. Nick's spokesperson and head of his straight defense squad just sent an ask. Giggles under the cut.

Nicholas has openly stated that he doesn’t care to be followed the way other celebrities are, that he wants his work to stand alone for what it is and that he likes to do his own thing.

It’s baffling that new fans are sitting here saying things like ‘cite your sources for us, there’s so much information, but I choose not to believe in any of it anyways because I’ve already decided he’s gay’. Simply say that you don’t care about him at all.

I understand you found a hot new guy to project all your fantasies and insecurities onto and now that Harry and Louis have essentially cut all ties with larries you all need a new project, but Nicholas isn’t going to be the one for you guys to fuck around with. He’s not indebted to the queer community, he doesn’t owe us anything. He’s a character actor moving from one thing to the next and he does not care about whether or not the 46 larries that still exist will hype him up or promote his projects. The work he has coming out in the next year is going to catapult him far beyond what larries think fame is.

Well, hello again. Asdfghjkl.

I have no horse in this race. Like i've said before i don't really mind what he identifies as. I just like him as an actor and as a person, from what i've come to know. And like i said just minutes ago, i haven't formed an opinion yet. Why would i lie about that? I could just say i think he's gay if i did? I don't form opinions on guesswork and stereotypes. And why are you so defensive? You do know that he still might be queer even if he's proclaimed himself to be straight mulitiple times? It wouldn't be the end of the world if he was queer. He'd still thrive and have a large fanbase who'd support him, including 46 larries. Even if that's not his goal.

And to you the first anon, i am inclined to agree. Context and knowledge on how the business operates is important. Saying that he had a crush on AH means little to me. He might be gay or bi/pan and closeted.

I'll give you my opinion on the variety interview when i get a chance to listen!

[heathersproship]

I wanted to say thanks for this blog. One of the biggest “problematic” types of ships I’ve read and written since I was even 11-13 was adult x children characters. It was a way for me to safely explore sexuality as a kid who got crushes on adults (teachers, celebrities, fictional characters, etc) without actually pursuing dangerous relationships.

Romantization of forbidden relationships in fiction, reading loads of vampire romances as a kid, and so on were all escapist fantasies for me, and they still hold a big place for me.

The renegade teenager being romanced by the wiser, has-their-shit-together older vampire, the chosen one teen hero attracted to the older elf mystic whose maturity and world view changed their life, a younger character taken care of by an adult character through intersecting familial, platonic, sexual means as a way to wade through my own feelings without having to put myself through ridicule or danger.

It’s more helpful than not being allowed to explore it at all, similar to the way fundie Christians talk about abstinence as the morally pure thing to do.

Fiction helps explore fantasies, intrusive thoughts, personal histories, and more. Not that I think there has to be an overall Morally Correct reason to consume darkfic or problematic ships and the like, but antis loooove bring ableist towards trauma, neglect, mental illness, let alone it’s deeply insulting to compare the real exploitation of children to some teen who has a crush on Louis from Interview with the Vampire.

In addition tons of anime, for example, has teen characters, and if a teenager finds them attractive they’re either bullied for writing them fucking, or bullied for aging them up to fuck. Which then forces a teen to out their real age to a bunch of strangers online to prove they’re Morally Allowed to find lines on paper attractive. Antis make fiction hostile towards anyone who isn’t an adult. Ironically the opposite of their goal.

Firstly, you're very welcome! I'm glad you're enjoying your time here, and thank you for sharing your experience!

Secondly, say it louder (y'know, for the ones plugging their ears in the back)!

Thirdly, when you say "Antis make fiction hostile towards anyone who isn’t an adult," I very much agree. And I think it's a very specific range of adult they strive to cater towards since ageism is something I've seen (though thankfully never personally dealt with!): 18 to 21yos. Being on the younger side of Young Adult means:

they're still young enough to hide behind the shield of "minor" because eighteen and nineteen still have -teen in them (but lbr that doesn't stop some 21yos from claiming they're still minors)

they're chronologically old enough to access Restricted material without needing to lie (I imagine this takes off some guilt or shame)

but

they're not mature enough to handle the responsibility of curating their own experience, coming out of a time when the adults in their lives would take the initiative to sequester themselves away for the safety and benefit of everyone, not just minors, so instead of doing the same and paying it forward, they think they're gaming the system and doing better in their crusades to rid the world of X, Y, Z

If you're older than that, you's a pedo, you sketchy as shit, your mere existence is a scary threat, not even sorry, stop playing online and go pay taxes or something. Silly adult, the Internet is for kids!!!!!

If you're younger than that, you's a baby <3 a smol wittle helpwess bean, pure and clean, and must be protected from the big bad kinksters and the scary sketchy adults uwu!! Or, as Gretchen puts it:

You're new and you don't know things You need good friends who can tell you what to think!

Or, as Chandler says,

You can join the team (or you can bitch and moan) You can live the dream (or you can DIE alone) You can fly with the eagles or if you prefer Keep on testing me and end up like her!

Sometimes I'll see talk about proshippers "grooming" the underaged into "joining their side/liking problematic content" or some shit, when the reality of it is that a) bad people have the potential to be everywhere, and they are, and b) whether or not you’re open about the stuff you like in fiction has to do with your level of security. Because everyone likes things, everyone has different reasons for liking those things, but whether or not you share either depends entirely on whether you feel safe enough to do so. I've yet to see a single person of the proship mindset shaming another for liking/not liking incest, age gap, dubcon/noncon, or any works in which these elements appear, because they themselves aren't a fan. Because we understand everyone has different preferences, without restriction, and so long as no one is actually getting hurt we're good. Drawing blood is not the same as blood being drawn. Antis, on the other hand, will not hesitate to shame and call out those for the crime of liking something they deem unjust or impure by dressing it up as the noble cause of protecting the poor innocent children who can't save (aka think for) themselves, and the fear of being a target to relentless harassment for something so inconsequential as liking a show/character/dynamic is what keeps them cowed. Who wants to live like that? That's stressful as shit! The paranoia, the energy it takes to keep up with that? Exhausting! I'd much rather be in a house full of weirdos all doing their own thing than a house full of "normal people" who won't hesitate to throw you out if you step a toe out of line.

And then, when antis grow out of that age range, they start justifying why it's okay for them to still like the things they do as the chronological physical adults they were so afraid of becoming, because they're doing it correctly.

They're consuming responsibly by sending death threats, rape threats, suicide baiting, or doxing.

They're warning people about the dangers of consuming X, Y, and Z by labeling everyone who disagrees with them degenerates who get off on it/THEIR trauma specifically despite being an Internet rando at best and part of a friendship circle at worst.

They're not lewding the dragon loli they're sending CSEM/CSAM of real children to real volunteers on one of the biggest fanfiction archive sites on the Internet, and that's not even touching how they got hold of it in the first place.

They're blocking people they don't want interacting with them after provoking them of course so they can play the Wounded Gazelle Gambit because clearly they've done nothing wrong, they were just trying to start a civilized discussion and the proshitters went feralsavage.

Whoo, this was a lot. Thank you for sending this in, and I'm sorry I took so long to post and I went on for so long lol. Keep shipping! Indulge! That's what the media's there for!

Happy Heathers Day!

[licncourt]

I'm late to the Loustat/Loumand controversy and I don't really care about these ships, but I think it's important to be critical about what we consume, even if it's fiction. I usually see Loustat shippers openly admit this ship is toxic and problematic, but I don't usually see Loumand shippers talking about the abusive and toxic aspects of Armand/Louis relationship and this triggers me.

I don't want to censor! I love stories with complex characters and dark romances, but since the author doesn't realize about most of the problematic things she writes, do you think it's important that we be more critical readers about the aspects of her work that she ignores? (Incest, peder*sty, abusive relationships, etc)

Yeah, I honestly don't keep track of what's going on in Louis/Armand land (I didn't even realize it was much of a thing until recently), so can't really say much to the topic, but yes. All of these ships are toxic in one way or another and it's important to acknowledge that.

As for your question, I do think the author's ignorance puts a greater responsibility on the reader. The same goes for classic authors like Lovecraft or Tolstoy. An author who writes prejudice into their books or includes topics like pedophilia, rape, abuse etc uncritically, or worse, in a romanticized way, has succeeded in normalizing that topic in their work. When we go to it to find enjoyment and make use of the aspects we like without remaining aware and critical of what's wrong with the work, we enable that normalization.

In contrast, you have books where highlighting the "bad thing" IS the point of the work, even if it's not spelled out as negative in the text, an example being Lolita. In this case, it's not necessary to establish that pedophilia is wrong, even though it's not directly stated to be in the book, because Nabokov understood that. His book was an example of how evil justifies itself, it's not meant for titillation of the reader.

This isn't what Anne Rice is doing in, for example, The Vampire Armand. The book is largely erotica, primarily involving a minor character with adults. It's not a criticism or picture of child abuse, it's porn and "forbidden romance" written by a woman who publicly defended a child rapist.

Even though both TVA and Lolita are books containing sex and a "love story" between an adult and a child, our responsibility as readers is different. We don't have to do the work of deconstructing a normalized image of pedophilia in Lolita (the culture around it notwithstanding obviously). And I do think we need to do that with TVA because the normalization of pedophilia is very harmful.

This idea extends to many of the themes in VC. We can and do enjoy the books, but with that comes some level of responsibility for ensuring that our enjoyment doesn't contribute to systemic harm.

[joachimnapoleon]

Meet the Bonapartes--Louis (3/4)

I left off with Part 2 of this an embarrassingly long time ago, but I'm trying to make it a habit of finishing more of the things I start, so I don't want to leave this hanging. So, one year later, here is Part 3 of my write-up on Louis Bonaparte, and I promise Part 4 will not have a similar gap in between.

(Part 1) (Part 2)

***

Louis had been sincere in his declaration, upon accepting the throne of Holland, that he had "become Dutch." He immersed himself in Dutch culture, encouraged his Dutch courtiers to wear their traditional clothing at court balls, and tried to learn and speak Dutch--sometimes with comedic results, such as when he declared himself the Konijn (rabbit), rather than Koning (king) of Holland. His subjects appreciated his efforts nonetheless.

They also appreciated the initiative Louis showed when tragedy struck early in his reign. On 12 January 1807, a ship bearing hundreds of barrels of gunpowder exploded in the Dutch city of Leiden, blowing up hundreds of buildings and killing 150 people, and injuring thousands. Louis immediately left for Leiden and oversaw the recovery efforts, earning him the nickname "Louis the Good" from a grateful populace.

[Aftermath of the Leiden explosion, by Johannes Jelgerhuis]

Louis began his reign with a flurry of activity, writing to Napoleon to request a number of measures intended to favor his new subjects. He requested a reduction in the number of French garrisons in the kingdom, a new treaty of commerce with France, and the right to choose his own men for his Royal Guard. Napoleon granted these, but refused his brother's request for a loan, arguing that the expenses of France were so great that he was unable to give Louis any money.

The Dutch climate negatively impacted Louis's perpetually delicate health from the beginning, but he rarely left the country for much-needed stays at health resorts; this was especially true later in his reign after his relationship with Napoleon had deteriorated so badly that Louis began to fear that he might be deposed in his absence.

That deterioration did not take long to commence. Napoleon began finding fault with Louis's reign almost from the beginning. Napoleon had intended for Louis to play a key role in the 1806 campaign against Prussia, and was seriously disappointed with his brother's sluggish movements and lack of cooperation with Marshal Mortier during the campaign. When, towards the end of the campaign, Louis balked at attempting to seize Hanover in spite of his greatly superior numbers, Napoleon's displeasure with his younger brother was complete. But Napoleon still took care to preserve Louis's reputation; Louis's forfeiture of his command to Mortier and subsequent return to Holland were attributed to bad health, and further territory from Napoleon's conquests was added to Louis's kingdom. Returning to his kingdom, Louis received a hero’s welcome.

If Napoleon was irritated with Louis's conduct during the campaign, Louis, in turn, was angered by the retention of Dutch troops in Germany after the war, commanded by a French general; this, in Louis's eyes, was proof that he was to be little more than a puppet-king. His flagging health notwithstanding, Louis spent the winter working to further assert his independence by implementing public works projects, reorganizing his kingdom's administration and law code, and creating his own military orders, the Order of Union and the Order of Merit. A major point of contention arose between Louis and Napoleon when Louis announced that he intended to introduce the rank of marshal into the Dutch army and navy. Napoleon wrote to him scornfully on 2 January 1807:

Do you think a French general of division would take orders from your Dutch marshals? You are aping French organization, though your circumstances are utterly different. Why not begin by establishing the conscription and having a real army?

He followed it up more bluntly and concisely a week later: "There is nobody in Holland fit to hold such high rank." Louis viewed this as an insult and persisted in implementing the rank, until Napoleon finally ordered him to abolish it as one of numerous conditions to which Louis was forced to concede in early 1810 in order to retain his kingdom. On the subject of conscription, Louis would successfully resist its implementation, despite Napoleon's repeated demands, to the end of his reign.

Louis's relationship with his wife, meanwhile, remained fraught. Hortense had stayed with her mother, the Empress Josephine, during the campaign, and did not return to the Hague until months after her husband, prompting a quarrel. Mutual recriminations abounded: Hortense was upset over Louis's attentions to a Dutch lady at court; Louis, in turn, complained of Hortense's conduct. Napoleon became aware of the conflict and wrote reprovingly to his brother:

You have the best and most virtuous of wives, and you make her miserable. Let her dance as much as she likes; it is only right at her age. I have a wife of forty, and from the battlefield I write to her that she must go to balls; and with a wife who is only twenty and naturally wishes to live her life and has still some of the illusions of youth, you want her to live as if she were in a convent, or to be busy always like a nurse with her children? You yourself are too much shut up in your study and not about enough in public business. I would not say all this unless I thought so much of you. Make the mother of your children happy. You have only one way of doing this, and that is by showing her a great deal of esteem and confidence.

Louis was stung, and protested to Napoleon that he was being misrepresented to the Emperor by rumormongers. The domestic quarrels continued, as did the gossip they inspired at the Dutch court.

The estranged royal couple suffered a severe blow with the unexpected death of their eldest son, Napoleon Charles. The boy, who had been regarded by the still childless Napoleon as the heir to the Empire, had fallen ill in late April 1807. Louis frantically summoned numerous physicians to tend to the child; multiple remedies were attempted; but all without success. The four-year-old child died at midnight on the 5th of May. Hortense was almost insensible with grief and had to be taken away from the palace. Caroline Murat arrived soon to be at Hortense's side, followed shortly thereafter by Josephine. Hortense eventually left to take the waters in the Pyrenees, and Napoleon gave Louis permission to leave his kingdom to join her in early June. At the end of the summer, Josephine arranged for Hortense, who was still very unwell, to remain with her while Louis returned to Holland. Their younger son, Napoleon Louis, remained with Josephine at Fontainebleau as well. This tragedy drew Hortense and Louis together in their shared grief, but the reunion was short-lived.

[Queen Hortense with Napoleon Charles]

Before Louis's return to Holland, he had argued over political matters with Napoleon. The Emperor wanted more troops from Holland; Louis replied that he could not afford to raise them, due to his kingdom's economy suffering from the recently enacted Berlin Decree, which prohibited all trade with England. But Napoleon was unwilling to grant any concessions on this subject, and it would ultimately be Louis's inability--which Napoleon would interpret as unwillingness--to enforce the ban on English trade, that would spell Louis's downfall.

The 1809 war brought Louis's kingdom under threat from attack by the English, who intended for an expedition to seize Antwerp. Antwerp, however, was a French fortress, and as such, Louis was technically not allowed to interfere with it; but his warnings to Napoleon of its vulnerabilities went unheeded. Louis pleaded with Napoleon that his entire kingdom was defenseless due to Napoleon sending Dutch divisions off to Spain and Westphalia; Louis was left with fewer than 9,000 soldiers in Holland. Napoleon refused to reinforce Louis and downplayed the English threat; when the invasion actually occurred, he then blamed Louis for it. Invoking his title as Grand Constable of France in order to take command of the French troops, Louis set to work arming his fortifications and extending river defenses. On the 16th of August, he handed over command of the forces at Antwerp to Marshal Bernadotte. The English expedition ultimately floundered, out of a combination of disease and incompetence.

Napoleon, rather than thanking or lauding Louis for his efforts, blasted him in his correspondence. Louis was told that his office of Grand Constable was purely civil and honorary and gave him no right to command French troops. He questioned how Louis could expect anyone to respect Holland's independence when he refused to provide a larger army and navy for its defense. Without a larger army, his kingdom was a farce.

Louis protested that he was being treated unjustly. He had already heard whispers that Napoleon was planning to annex Holland to France, and garrison it with French troops. As he would soon learn, these were more than just whispers. By late 1809, Napoleon had not only lost faith in Louis, but had come to suspect his brother of disloyalty. In the Emperor’s mind, his brother was far too sympathetic to the Dutch nobility, whom Napoleon distrusted for their ties to the English. Nor did Napoleon appreciate Louis's attachment to the Dutch people and his insistence on promoting Dutch culture at every turn. But above all, Napoleon could not abide his brother's failure to enforce the blockade against English trade; this, in the words of biographer Michael Broers, "was the issue that turned incapacity into treason in his mind." Napoleon was determined that his Continental System be upheld at all costs; he was not oblivious to the suffering this would entail, as he made it clear to Louis in one particularly menacing letter:

Make searches and seize English goods, and [then] my customs men will respect your territory. If you don't do it, I will, as is my right.... The blockade will ruin many commercial cities, Lyon, Amsterdam, Rotterdam, but this state of anxiety must be got over; it must go on to the end.

The efforts of smugglers and corrupt/patriotic police notwithstanding, the blockade wreaked havoc on the commercial cities, just as Napoleon had anticipated. Writes Broers:

Amsterdam plunged into harrowing decline in every sense. Emigration caused by the collapse of commerce was compounded by the spread of diseases related to poverty, reducing its population from 202,000 in 1808, to little more than 180,000 by 1815. Its shipyards, which had employed 2,000 men in 1800, had barely 500 by 1808. Empty towns stood in ruins, while shanty towns along the canals swelled. Poverty was manifest in the city, and even the number of taverns declined. The local system of poor relief and charity that Louis had inherited from the old republic was stretched to the breaking point by the unprecedented speed and scale of Napoleon's manufactured crisis; it is estimated that between 30 and 40 per cent of the population of Amsterdam depended on poor relief by 1809.

And yet Napoleon remained displeased with his brother's enforcement of the blockade, and was convinced that Louis was deliberately acting to thwart him. When the entire imperial family was summoned to Paris in December 1809 for what would be the announcement of Napoleon's divorce and ensuing re-marriage plans, Louis suspected--rightly--that he might be walking into an ambush. He warned his ministers that he might be coerced into signing documents against his will, and that they were to only regard documents signed with his Dutch name--Lodewijk--as valid. In the event of an attempted French occupation of the country, his commanders were to offer a passive resistance, bringing their men inside their fortresses, closing their gates, and raising their drawbridges.

Napoleon welcomed Louis to Paris coldly; at their second meeting, he told him frankly that he intended to annex Holland, and that if Louis resisted, he would find himself at war with France. "Holland," he said, "is nothing but an English colony, more hostile to France than England herself. I mean to eat up Holland!"

In a bid to keep his kingdom, Louis pleaded for a compromise, and demonstrated a willingness to make concessions, including increased enforcement of the blockade and a ceding of territory. Napoleon sent orders to suspend Oudinot's march to occupy Holland, so that negotiations could proceed. But first, there was the issue of the divorce. Louis attempted to piggyback on his brother's divorce from Josephine by petitioning the Emperor for the arrangement of a formal separation from Hortense. Napoleon, instead, decided to have the matter decided by a family council. Though the two would not be permitted to divorce, it was decided that they might live apart; Hortense was permitted to remain in Paris and given an income of half a million francs. She also retained custody of Louis's eldest son, to Louis's bitter disappointment.

During this interim, Napoleon's mind had changed about his earlier negotiations with Louis. He predicted that Louis would not be able to meet the requirements they had agreed upon, and that the annexation would only be deferred. Harsher terms were drawn up--Louis was required to cede to France all his territory up to the left bank of the Rhine; he was forbidden to trade or communicate with England; he was required to build an army of 25,000 men and increase the size of his navy; and the rank of marshal was to be eliminated from the Dutch military. Louis was prohibited from returning to his kingdom until the agreement was signed. The treaty was finally signed on the 16th of March; Louis arrived back in Amsterdam on the 11th of April. Despite his earlier agreement to let Hortense remain in Paris, Napoleon had insisted on her returning to Holland as well. Hortense dreaded the return. "I wrote the Emperor a despairing letter," she recorded in her memoirs. "He did not answer me." Upon her arrival, Hortense writes that Louis "was overjoyed to see his son again but paid little or no attention to me."

Louis's unhappy queen leaves the following portrait of her life at court during this time, on the brink of her husband's deposition:

Word would be sent me when dinner was ready that the King was waiting for me. While we were at the table he would scarcely say a word. After the meal the King would thrum on the piano, which stood open. He would take his son on his knees, kiss him and lead him out on the balcony which overlooked the square. The crowd, catching sight of them, would give a few cheers. The King would re-enter the room, return to the piano, recite some French poetry or hum an air. I would stay in an armchair, not saying a word and watching what went on in the room. When a few hours had passed, my husband, becoming conscious of the strained situation, would ring and send for the Dutch members of our household and the ladies in waiting. Card-tables would be brought out. Sometimes I played also and at nine o'clock I returned to my apartments after having said good night, the only word we had spoken to one another. This is an exact picture of how I spent my days at Amsterdam.

Hortense did not remain in the kingdom for long. Her health suffered, and it was soon determined that it would be better for her to return to France. She left her husband for the final time on 16 May 1810.

The Sword of Damocles was not long in descending on Louis. An assault on a coachman of the French ambassador gave Napoleon all the excuse he needed to finally carry out his plan to annex Holland. Napoleon demanded that the perpetrators be arrested and hanged; Louis's ministers pointed out the impossibility of identifying them. Oudinot was ordered to march on Amsterdam.

Louis briefly considered appealing to Russia or Austria for help, but it was far too late. He had word sent to Oudinot that, though his troops would receive no welcome, they would also meet no resistance. Louis made some final, hasty financial arrangements, including selling some of the Dutch estates he had acquired and transferring his diamonds out of the country.

On 1 July 1810, Louis abdicated in favor of his second son, Napoleon Louis. The following night, he boarded a carriage accompanied by his captain of the guards, an aide-de-camp, and his favorite dog, Tiel, and headed east. In one last parting blow, Tiel was hit and killed at a horse-changing station on the road. Louis was devastated. "It was," writes biographer Atteridge, "he said, part of his bad luck, that now haunted him everywhere."

For weeks, Napoleon was unable to ascertain the whereabouts of his brother. "We don't know where he has gone, and we know nothing about this lunacy." He asked Hortense if she had any word of him. Writes Hortense in her memoirs, “Real anxiety as regards what had happened to the King was my first reaction. No one knew where he had retired. I imagined that he had left for America, alone, with no one to help him, no one to console him. His fate aroused my sympathy. I almost came to believe that I had become fond of him, now that he had known misfortune." Louis finally wrote to Madame Mère from the health resort of Toeplitz, that he was "as well as can be expected, and well out of affairs to which I will never return."

Regarding Napoleon's feelings towards Louis, Broers concludes that they were

an ill-sorted mixture of piercing truth and injustice clouded by the deepest kind of hatred, rooted in love betrayed. Yet, Napoleon worried about Louis' safety once 'the business' was over. He did not harbour the fanatical hatred that leads to murder. Even after his ill treatment of Hortense, Louis was his brother, and Bonapartes did not practise 'insular vendetta.' Nevertheless, in the world of high politics, Louis' end signaled the end of his faith in his brothers.

***

Sources:

Atteridge, A. Hillard. Napoleon’s Brothers, 1909.

Broers, Michael. Napoleon: Spirit of the Age. 2018.

De Beauharnais, Hortense. Memoirs of Queen Hortense, Vol I.

Masson, Frédéric. Napoleon et sa Famille, Vol I (1796-1802), 1907.

Roberts, Andrews. Napoleon: A Life. 2014.

[gracefullou]

as someone who's v new to the fandom (and didn't even know the names of 1d until this year) I truly do not understand the larry thing... like even if they were a thing, they most definitely aren't now and we aren't even sure they're on good terms? especially because that man never talks about louis (or praises him like niall or liam does) and how he never made a statement about how euphoria used their images & names without consent or knowledge (and then hung out with the creator after louis made a statement). I just cannot fathom it. plus larries thinking songs are about that man (that would show him in a very negative light if that were true) and continuing to both support him AND say that they're secretly married or wtv? sorry for the rant I'm just very confused by it all???

Old grandma larries who want to live an epic love story through 2 strange, much younger men keep this thing going bc they keep talking about this ship and they will never ever change their mind no matter what. They use 2011/ 2012 old footage that taken out of context may look cute to some people in order to recruit these new fans to their cult. They also live in a bubble and block any solo louie they see and tell their followers to do the same (didn't you know it's a sin to support a musician for his music ? You have to worship his husband that he wasn't seen with in 1654 years too 🙄). By the time these relatively new people realize that they've been obsessing over ancient footage and that these two men haven't interacted with each other in ages, they're way too invested in their delusions to aknowledge that, way too self centered to admit they were wrong all along and that other people's sexuality/ partners is none of their business. It's offensive to ship Louis with a man who called his late mother (may she rest in peace) someone's mom, whose personal assistant liked a hate post about Louis' voice, a man who's besties with that australian host who called his ex-bandmate (and to them it's worse, husband) a rat on radio. That man even said that he attended her wedding . It's offensive to ship him with a man who hasn't uttered his name in more than 7 years except for snl and talk show sketches (and that damage control award show speech), it's offensive to ship him with a man who approved that Euphoria scene and didn't even think of telling him, it's offensive to ship him with a man who has an other woman's name tattood on his body and another one's voicemail in his song 💀.... Like if they cared about Louis and loved him just a little bit, they would've wanted him to be OUT of this relationship even if they believe it to be true. But they're a lost case 🤷🏽‍♀️. They're celebrating that in bty he says i love him (according to them not me) and ignore that he says i hate it right fucking after 😭 and that this song is about a toxic relationship (Mind you in 2019 when i joined the fandom they used to "believe" Louis when he said he doesn't relate to the song bc that man is such a great partner it could never be about him 😭). In conclusion, don't be confused anon, these people are just delusional. They stan that dead ship and nothing else. And unless they seek irl help, they will never change their mind about it

[larrietalk]

What do you think about all the solo harries that are noticing Holivia is fake? I'm honestly genuinely surprised. Also do you know is there's any solo Louis that might feel the same way about Louis's stunts?? The only thing I've seen is E stans that don't like Louis and want them to break up, which was hilarious

I think that the fact that solo harries are openly saying how fake it is and calling it a stunt is the biggest sign of how much they have failed with this pr showmance. We are talking about fans who have been eating up everything hshq served to them and suddenly they are acting like larries because they just hate Olivia so much. Harries don’t want to see an almost 40 yo mother of two who just got out of a 7 year long engagement next to him. They don’t want to think Harry would rather date their moms than them. I’m sure it also didn’t help that this relationship came right after Harry’s been saying in interviews how private he is and how he doesn’t mix his love life with his job. Even harries can’t ignore these inaccuracies.

But still it takes a real talent to turn harries against yourself, and I hope Olivia's ego is being hurt every day she has to face it. Her desperation and need for attention is her downfall and I am not sure she realizes how much she fucked up. Fans are openly saying they will boycott her movie but she doesn’t care because the only person that truly matters to Olivia is Olivia herself.

As for solo Louies, I think a lot of them think Louis is gay, they just don't believe he is with Harry and ship him with people like Hot Luke or random actors. The way they treat him though, in relation to those ships, is very questionable and their perception of Louis is warped to the point where he becomes a caricature of himself. Oh, and they also think he's a dad, because they don't want to be those disrespectful larries (even though I am 100% sure the elounories will be celebrating with us when bg ends).