#justified s4

[redpool]

Justified gif makers i need your help, i need a gif of that last scene before the credits of episode 9 of season 4, the one where Raylan and Tim are walking towards the camera, and Raylan says "Let's go find Drew Thompson.

[cocogum]

Yugo’s ambiguity.

I love to think that the reason why Atone is nonbinary despite being an extension of Yugo is because Yugo physically LOOKS ambiguous when he’s older.

Like my guy looks like an accurate angel if it took human form, not female but not male either. He looks very much like he’s in the middle.

If it wasn’t for the fact that we saw his upper body being exposed in Toross’ world and heard him speak, then I genuinely think that he could’ve been perceived as neither gender or a mix instead.

And his wakfu wings (or antlers as I like to call them) clearly emphasize the angel look even more!

If someone were to take his hat off and build his body to make it look like Grougaloragran’s human body, then we would have the embodiment of ambiguity.

No joke, I genuinely believe Yugo has the face for it.

Even when we see him from the back of his head, we can’t tell if this is a guy or just a girl with short hair.

*This scene was the only one I could find where we get a distinct shot of the back of his head in his adult form*

Every eliotrope gets something from their creator no matter how small or big that physical or mental trait is. Whether it’s his lust for fighting (Bouillon), his cockiness (Sidaire), his stubbornness (Oropo), or even his belief that he can do what he must to properly lead (Ripulse).

*I would’ve actually mentioned the female eliotrope who was in Oropo’s group as well and related a trait of Yugo’s to her but since we didn’t get too much of her in the episode, like even knowing what her name was, I didn’t include her in the enumeration*

So who’s to say Atone doesn’t represent a mental trait of Yugo’s but rather a physical trait?

It would make sense given how Yugo doesn’t actually think he identifies as nonbinary but simply looks ambiguous without even realizing it himself.

I just love to think that’s the case because Atone has honestly been making me wonder what he could have possibly gotten from Yugo. Eliotropes are at their core alter egos of Yugo. They have at least one thing that connects them to him. Like broken glass fragments that complete a mirror when they’re all put together. And Yugo is that mirror.

Atone is an extension of Yugo’s ambiguity and it makes perfect sense.

Yugo has such a good complexion but it’s so vague at the same time that I can definitely see how he could be interpreted as imprecise just by his face alone.

An angel taking human form is exactly what comes to mind when I think about him 💕

So by that logic, having Atone being nonbinary would not only give us a wink at Yugo’s unspoken physical ambiguity, but it would also give us a copy of Yugo if he had been entirely identifying as nothing concrete.

[thatbeeagain]

I know there are a lot of people wondering about all the other 30-40 something people with marigold running around in the world so I'm gonna give my personal theory that nobody asked for.

(For the record, I hated the ending/plot of s4 as much as the next guy, this is just how I'm justifying it to myself.)

At the end of season 3, we see the marigold being sucked out of the Umbrellas (except Allison, and with Sloane and Ben too) BEFORE the universe is reset. In one of the teasers for season 4, Five explains that this is why they no longer have their powers, but I'm assuming the writers just threw that out of the window for plot convenience (as they do quite consistently). In season 4, we see all the Umbrellas (+ Ben) powerless, including Allison, implying that the RESET is what caused their lack of powers.

Aside from the fact that this ignores a whole bunch of stuff from the ending of season 3, it's kind of boring. I would've loved going into a season 4 where Allison doesn't know the others lost their powers, or if she still had hers at all because she refused to use them.

Even then, whatever, they chose to write it differently, that's fine (aside from the fact they didn't pull it off but at this point who even gives a shit).

The fact that Allison doesn't have her powers either is actually key here, because while she was present, she was standing by while the others got the marigold sucked out of them. To me, this means that ANYBODY with marigold in them would've had it removed in the reset. This includes the however many other people originally had superpowers, which is why the cleanse only had to "consume" (for lack of a better word) the Umbrellas, who had ingested marigold in the current timeline.

Does this make sense? Probably not. Could it be canon? Who knows at this point, the writers were on some hardcore shit this season. Why did the reset not also get rid of Jennifer's Durango? Who the fuck knows!

Sorry this is really long, I just keep seeing people asking about the other marigold children and this was just what I always assumed.

Thanks for bothering to read this if you did. Good job or something idk.

[bugsbenefit]

"i just want byler to happen, Mike's sexuality doesn't need to be defined for that" is all well and good but doesn't acknowledge that it would actively devalue byler

for a ship to be compelling and universally enjoyed (not just by a subset of fans who's been hyperinvolved with the ship for years) it needs to be built up and executed well... which means BOTH characters need to have depth and a coherent character arc in order for people to get why the ship is happening and why they should root for it

if we never even get insight into the most surface level "did he even like El romantically at some point" questions, his character is absolutely fucked forever. goodbye main character Mike, Will might as well date a random new guy then if they were to reduce Mike to an actual prop with nothing worth exploring on screen. Byler would have no hit to it and would be a waste of a childhood friends to lovers and mc/mc romance

just Will having a compelling arc with his sexuality isn't enough to carry the ship if the other party gets brushed off with a "he likes Will back so we don't care about anything else he's got going on". especially when Will thinking Mike was straight so he had no chance with him was a main plot point of the previous seasons. Mike can't just suddenly do a 180 with no further explanation without it being bad writing. that's just the fact of the matter. byler would be rushed and bad writing if it was executed like that, no shipping goggles or love for their characters would change that

if you "just want byler to happen" and want it to be done in a way that doesn't have people hate it you DO actually want Mike's sexuality to be addressed. because one requires the other to happen

[someprettyname]

Man.

Haikyuu is so hellbent on making me cry.

[mr-cleans-last-hair-follicle]

I JUST THOUGHT OF A TUA THEORY!!

what if season 4 five wasn't actually five, HEAR ME OUT!!! WHAT IF WHEN FIVE AND LILA WERE IN TRAIN AT ONE POINT LILA LOST FIVE IN ONE OF THE TIME LINES. AND WHILE FIVE WAS LOST HE GOT ATTACKED/KILLED BY ANOTHER FIVE THAT TOOK ACTUAL FIVES PLACE??? SO SEASON 4'S FIVE WASN'T ACTUALLY FIVE?!!!!!

(sorry for the low-key yap)

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

i don't want to keep dragging up the adora throwing catra off the bed discourse but it did remind me of something, so i wanna talk about it. (this is the last post i'll make about this discourse though, i'm so tired lmao)

this whole thing reminded me of how the arcane fandom called vi toxic and evil for hitting powder and yelling at her.

now am i saying that vi was justified in hitting her younger sister or calling her a jinx? absolutely not. powder didn't know what she was doing, she was a child and she was just trying to help.

but is vi an abuser and a terrible monster for reacting this way? absolutely the fuck not, she just saw her sister blow up her ENTIRE FAMILY. ANYONE would react this way, if they were in her shoes.

this is where complexity comes in. these actions by themselves - hitting someone or throwing them off their bed - aren't good. of course they're not. and they're not necessarily justified either.

but people don't act rationally in a moment of emotional distress. adora had been suffering from catra's abuse for years, and vi just witnessed her entire family get killed in a millisecond. of course they're not going to act rationally, of course they're not going to calmly speak to catra and jinx, and handle the situation maturely.

and to their credit, both vi and adora were a lot more mature than you would expect.

adora exited the room after a while, giving catra some space and taking her own anger out on inanimate objects instead of people.

vi walked away to take a breather and almost immediately regretted being so harsh on powder. she tried to go back to powder and she couldn't only because she was immediately caught by the cops and taken away.

it's okay to call these actions wrong or harmful. just the actions by themselves. but when you call these characters toxic or abusive for acting impulsively in a moment of distress, you're throwing context out of the window and basing their entire character on ONE instance where they hurt someone.

[spacedlexi]

the post about the mirrors between the Kenny & Jane fight and the Minnie & Clem fight just reminds me of all the similarities between Violet and Kenny. like obviously they’re different characters, I just find it interesting how they share so many traits (being very loyal, may or may not sustain an eye injury, like fishing even if one is rod fishing and the other is spear fishing). there’s some more similarities I forgot to mention but I’ve been patiently waiting for someone to draw Violet and Kenny fishing wearing “women love me, fish fear me” hats or something.

oh yeah, ALSO. they both have moments where you can fight them and calm them down (Kenny on the train, Violet in the ending where you didn’t save her).

this is just so interesting! wish other people acknowledged it.

anon unknowingly unlocking my beef with kenny defenders who hate violet

vi was one of the first characters for me where i realized that a female character can have all the traits people will defend in their favorite male character(s) and yet theyll still find a way to absolutely despise her for some reason

kennys #1 defense is that him losing his family is what drove him to the brink and its soooo understandable for him to act out the way he does (brutally killing people, abusive even if it comes from a place of wanting to protect "his group"). but violet, who acts the way she does (isolationist loner) because.... she lost her family... is a disloyal bitch for some reason 😐 even while shes nothing but loyal to clem regardless of choice (people are quick to defend louis' actions in ep 2 as well and his behavior never makes Him disloyal for some reason 😐 "he lost his best friend!" and vi lost her best friends/gf because of marlon so?), and only has a lapse in judgement after you (determinately) "betray" her 💀 AND she apologizes for it if you do!!

if nothing about violet changed besides her pronouns the fandom reception to her would be so dramatically different and i refuse to believe otherwise

[rotdot-com]

Begging people to realise tma's themes of agency and control extend to characters other than Jon

[beevean]

A theory I've read more than once is that this one frame of Lenore entering Hector's cell for the second time is proof that she is not actually enjoying what she has to do:

The wiki describes it as such: "Lenore has a sad expression when entering the dungeon to visit Hector the second time."

Also this, from a comment I found:

Like for example when she goes to meet Hector the second time, you can see sadness on her face when she is walking alone in the dungeon, but as soon as she approaches Hector she puts on a smile. I.e. may be she already knew she had to use the ring at that point and felt bad about it but didn't want Hector to realize that. A lot of such small animation details really provide a glimpse into what the explicit writing was lacking.

(edit: turns out that they were the same person)

Okay.

First things first: I doubt she has the ring in mind already. It's hard to tell because Lenore pulls it out of her ass with zero foreshadowing whatsoever, but with the way it was framed, the ring was likely a direct response to Striga's idea of buying mercenaries to make Hector unnecessary, which comes later into the story: Lenore even uses the information she eavesdropped from Striga as a way to lie to Hector about her loyalty to the sisters. In theory it makes sense, because Hector needs to be reliable to be allowed to live, but the ring is... a very poor solution the more you think about it, even if you ignore how S4 neutered it, because it only addresses one of the many logistic problems that come with forcing Hector to make an army of Night Creatures, and it's not the dead bodies/living livestock paradox. And going with the story, it's unlikely Lenore was already thinking of raping the ring into Hector: why would the sisters be amazed at her plan if they were the ones suggesting her to speed up things? And if Lenore came up with it, why would she be remorseful at her own idea? Sure, Hector showed defiance during their first encounter, but did she have so little faith in her own manipulating skills that she already felt that she had no choice but to use her pussy, the only good weapon in a woman's disposal "brute force", after one understandable incident? Then why even bother interrogating him to understand his motivations and needs? Just skip straight to the sexual molestation to make him believe she likes him. As I pointed out, that interrogation was not for the sake of painting herself as particularly caring: she was collecting intel, intel that she wouldn't need if her plan was already tricking Hector into slavery via a magic ring.

Second: that expression honestly doesn't look sad to me. I would be willing to give the interpretation some credit, because she's looking downwards which can be a sign of sadness, but after that one frame, she switches to this expression:

Now she looks mildly pissy, like the idea of talking to Hector is just soooooo annoying, ugh. She even has the sassy cocked eyebrow lmao.

Of course that can't be it, so I propose the most obvious interpretation: she's serious and deep in thought. That is because their first encounter ended up disastrously: Hector assaulted Lenore with the intent of threatening her, which pissed her off, and she assaulted Hector by beating him to an inch of his life, which is not the best way to win a pet's trust. So she's most likely thinking the best way to approach him again.

And I'll even praise a small detail: the first time Lenore fed Hector, she made him crawl towards her to eat from her hand. The second time, however, she tosses an apple to his feet. Both gestures are demeaning, but after that incident she seems to be more cautious towards him - shown as well by her insistence that he is so dangerous that, well, she has no choice but to put a leash on him like a dog. I'm honestly surprised that her final solution is stupid as fuck when she can be intelligent when she wants to. real reason she's hector's soulmate: both of them have braincells like christmas tree lights :V

Third: oh, do you want to talk about explicit writing?

These are not freeze frame bonuses. The scene lingers on this expression on Lenore's face as Hector is screaming in pain over the ring she put on him.

So, you're willing to believe Lenore didn't want to use the ring but felt forced to because in one frame she has an expression that mildly looks displeased... but somehow you ignore this blatantly sadistic reaction? This screams, at the very least, "haha, sucker, I've won"; but add to this that Hector is visibly and audibly in pain, shocked and scared at the curse overtaking his body during a vulnerable moment...

This ties well with how she beat Hector to a pulp not just out of self-defense, but because she wanted to feel strong and powerful when surrounded by people who underestimate her - the writing might imply that she was offended that Hector too saw her as vulnerable and stupid, but she was explicitly laughing and mocking him while showing off her strength (a strength she doesn't display when, say, Isaac enters her cage: he easily intimidates her). You might read the implication that Lenore spoke about Hector so disgustingly to the sisters to be taken seriously as a vampire mistress and didn't actually want to dehumanize him, but explicitly, even ignoring the forced pet play that showed she had fun treating him like a dog, she reduced him to a "problem to be solved" when complaining about her woes, and when she could have apologized or explained herself she minimized or doubled down on the harm she caused, never once expressing any remorse or doing anything worthwile to make up for it (like, for example, talking about the ring and how it's a shame Hector is only there because he has no choice because she feels they'd be good friends without it: that would imply guilt).

In fact, going back to the moment when Lenore decides to use the ring, it is far more likely that it was in response to this part of the conversation Lenore has eavesdropped:

Striga: We can possibly push east as far as Lake Balaton before I run out of soldiers, but that exposes our Western border. Morana: Sleep. Striga: We can't do it without Lenore turning the forgemaster, and she's just taking him out for fucking walkies. Morana: She will land him. Striga: It's going to have to be soon.

Considering that it's shown that Lenore highly resents being seen as a stupid animal lover, it's far easier to think that this is when she got pissy and decided to use a quicker method, even if it destroyed all the hard manipulation work she had done.

One frame might paint her as a reluctant villain only trying to make everyone happy and being stuck between a rock and a hard place, but multiple scenes paint her as a vile bully and abuser who enjoys feeling in power and control, whether she uses kindness or harm to achieve her goal.

I'm sorry, subtext can absolutely enrich the understanding of a story or character, but not when it actively contradicts the text.

Do you want my personal example? I'll play the same game of overanalyzing expressions. When Isaac attacks the castle, Lenore goes to rescue Hector first thing, instead of checking on Carmilla. For one moment, she even looks torn on where to go:

I will praise this moment: this shows her concern for him quite nicely and that she believes his safety is the first priority, without having to spell it out - no declataration of love, no "you're too important to me", no "Carmilla can handle herself without me", the action speaks for itself. However, there is also her reaction when Hector severs his finger to get rid of the ring, after he explains that "command and control flows through [him] to Lenore here and to her friends":

It could be simple disgust because, well, there's a severed finger and pools of blood lying near her. But I also see what the commenter saw in that frame in S3: sadness. Defeat. Lenore has lost control of the Night Creatures. She can't do anything to protect Carmilla and the castle. And she has lost control of Hector, who has gone behind her back and is protecting her at the expense of her sisters and home: he may chose to stay with her, but he also gave Isaac all the tools he needs to destroy her life. She's powerless. Everything she has worked for went up in smokes and was pointless. Which, as it was shown and told, greatly bothers her. (this is also why I believe her suicide makes sense for her state of being, an opinion apparently not shared by her fans)

I see all of this encapsulated into that expression that mixes disgust, concern and quiet, horrified realization: and it's also fully backed up by the context.

This leads to the message I keep insisting on and which is something that more people need to learn, and the reason I keep eviscerating this character because the writing and the fandom piss me off something fierce: abusers can care about you. They can care about your safety and well being, they can want what (they think) it's best for you. What makes them abusers is that they place more importance on their own need of control. Lenore wanting to save Hector because she pitied him, has grown close to him and eventually finds in him someone who listens to her doesn't at all erase in the slightest all the harm she has caused him: which, I reiterate, includes lying to him and taking advantage of his feelings and need for love to trick him into sex with the objective of placing a slave ring on him, and enjoying his suffering when she won - and when Hector called her out on this, her response was "SHUSH, YOU WERE HAVING FUN".

At the end of the day, she has never stopped behaving like a vampire, a creature whose definition of love is "acting to keep something with you for as long as you can". Even in her most wholesome scenes, like this one or the one where she pleads for more of Carmilla's patience, it's easy to see at the core of it all a need to control the situation and people involved, and reluctance to admit her needless cruelty. This is nuance, not "she's actually good deep down, pls ignore all the sexual abuse because it was for Hector's own good 🥺".

On one hand, it's true that when you do character analyses, you will always be biased, because you come in with your ideas and preconceptions. I am biased too, of course, you can tell. On the other, it's dishonest to cling only onto the most convenient hidden details to look like you have fully understood the text, when you dismiss the most obvious ones that are so obvious you have to actively try to.

[redpool]

I love how anytime anyone questions Boyd or Raylan about each other they just say 'We dug coal together.' Like it has meaning to anyone but them.

[olyphant-tim]

JUSTIFIED – 4x05 “Kin”

[actually-a-cowboy]

just saw justified but in space (the mandalorian chapter 9: the marshal)

[drusill-a]

RTD is so in love with David Tennant that it makes him look stupid, huh.

[bestialitybestiary]

I've just realized they did that to Peter two times! They made him guilty of what he's done when he wasn't in his right mind/conscious of his actions. But Jackson was clearly a victim, hm?

[bylertruther]

i don't like season three when viewing it as a continuation of seasons one and two, but i do very much like season three when viewing it as the prequel to seasons four and five... hmmmmm.