#it's anachronistic but i don't care! it delights me!

[septembersghost]

50s riverdale elvis mention check-in, this week they used "i got stung"

[thiswaycomessomethingwicked]

Potentially silly question regarding Grima: You've discussed before the idea of him loving to have pineapples around as a status symbol on account of them being something weird and exotic that no one else has, but if given the chance to not just have them kicking around for symbolic purposes and actually be served to him, do you think Grima would taste them, and if so, if he'd like it or not? And what other foods (fruit or otherwise) do you think might he consider a status symbol?

I live for silly Grima questions!

And Grima would love pineapple! it's so sweet, he'd be gung-ho for it. He would be that person who would receive one and then be grieved over whether or not he wished to put it on his table or eat it. Like receiving a work of art as a rug - do you hang it on the wall or put it on the floor and use it as it was meant to be used?

In this world with the anachronistic pineapple, I think initially Grima would never eat them. He would keep them until they weren't aesthetic anymore then they'd be fed to the goats or pigs or chickens.

However, once he had been in a decently powerful/wealthy position for long enough I think he'd take a pineapple and try and figure out how to eat it.

There would be a debate: can you eat a pineapple?

Eomer says no - they're prickly on the outside, sharp, pointy, clearly a sign they're poisonous and not to be eaten.

Grima says yes - there are prickly pointy sharp plants that are perfectly edible. It's a matter of knowing how to do it.

Eowyn has no opinion on the matter, but she holds that Grima should be the one who tries it first.

Theodred is just confused about why this matters. They have perfectly good, delightful food. There's no need to try and eat the table decorations.

Grima: but what if they taste good? Who knows. It could be fun for us.

Being a reasonably intelligent man, Grima makes his least favourite person eat a bit of the pineapple first then they all wait and see if he dies. When it's determined that he will live, Grima tries some and is like 'it's terrible. None of you should have any. I'll take care of it, don't worry.' And hoards the pineapple like the wee dragon wyrm he is.

Figuring out how to access the inner flesh of the fruit involved Grima carefully cutting small bits off then they were like 'ah, the outer layer isn't that thick so this is easy'. They were also all mightily pleased that there was no stone inside which means more pineapple to eat.

Figuring out how to propagate a pineapple would be a past-time Grima would undertake and if he managed to successfully figure it out he would be like, 'they are absolute freaks of a plant. I love them even more. Eomer, build me a greenhouse.'

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Other status symbol foods for Grima?

Certain herbs and spices would be: cinnamon, vanilla, saffron, cardamom, lemongrass, sumac, caraway, nutmeg etc.

Citrus in general - I don't see Rohan doing orangeries or anything, that would be a Gondor-style invention. So all citrus is imported which makes it rare and expensive.

Grima trying to convince Eomer to build an orangerie is now my new favourite mental image.

Grima: we could have oranges in winter, my lord! just. think about it.

Eomer is like, 'you really took on the decadent living full force, didn't you?'

'I was born on a farm in the north, my lord. I grew up living off turnips and seasonal produce that can grow in cold climes and whatever we foraged. Not that we ever foraged or poached on the local lord's land. Never.'

Anachronistic tomatoes! Certain tree nuts would be strictly imports and so therefore a delicacy (e.g., almonds).

I don't know if Rohan did class based consumption (only royalty can eat certain meats etc.), but if they did - whatever was determined to be for nobility alone would be something he'd put great stock in now having access to.

Man, this guy's diet really improved when he joined the king's household.

Grima: I ate a lot of pottage. Bread soup. Meat but more so in the autumn when we slaughtered the animals that were right for it. Turnips. Carrots. Roots for days. Cabbage. Ruffage of that sort. Berries if they were in season. Apples, when they were in season. Fish from the river sometimes. Cheese. Most everything was salted, pickled or fermented.

Eomer: I see.

Grima: but now I can eat fruit whenever I want! also we have meat with every meal and it's fresh meat, too. Not to mention wine. Also food is spiced so fancy here. Look at this ginger. This would cost five of my father's sheep. I never new cardamom existed until I came to Edoras. You even colour your jellies random colours solely because it amuses you to have them coloured! Wild.

Eomer:

Eomer: you know, I get it.

Grima: and you have white flour! Wheat! It's not rye or barley - amazing. And white ale! ugh, the lap of luxury, my lord. I will never grow tired of it. Oh, and fancy tea that I've never had before arriving in Edoras.

Other things would be jellies and custards - anything that is time and labour intensive would be a status symbol. Figs, dates - dried fruits that had to be imported would cost a pretty penny and be for the wealthy alone. Not to mention grapes and olives. Peacock and other more fanciful poultry, of course. Like the feasts would be certainly something.

I sometimes imagine, like, twenty-two year old Grima arriving in Edoras and getting absorbed into the king's household because he's one of the few fully literate people in the city and seeing a royal feast up close for the first time.

Mind blowing.

Grima: how do I eat this?

Theoden: it's an orange. Have you never had an orange before?

Grima is like, Do you think I've had an orange before?

Theoden:

Theoden: fair point.

Grima has more than one shirt in his possession and thinks he's basically a lord, now.

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Things to also consider is if there were any social constraints to when you ate certain food - such as religious festivals. Was fasting during a certain period part of Rohan's culture? Were there restrictions or taboos around grouping certain foods together? Did those restrictions apply to everyone equally or only certain groups? Was there a gendered aspect to food consumption and access?

E.g., in early medieval Scandinavia (think vikings), boys were favoured and so in lean/starvation times they were given the good food and the daughters were not. We can see in skeletal remains that within the same generation women were more likely to have suffered a starvation level of hunger at a greater percentage to men.

So, like, in Rohan if there was a lean time during his childhood was Grima fed more in comparison to his sister(s)? How does that impact someone's relationship to family? to food? etc.

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Also what was the meal structure like? Did they do two meals, as was common through much of the medieval era in Europe (broad brush stroke, of course, regional variations existed and things shifted over time. E.g., Venice did dinner and supper but there was a secret, third meal between the two that was like a sort-of tea/snack break)? I suspect at a minimum it was three in Rohan since we know Gandalf et al arrived in Meduseld in the morning and Grima makes reference to Theoden's meat (i.e., his meal) being at the board. So, likely breakfast of some variation.

However, Theoden was old and infirm and that might mean he was eating different meals than he would be otherwise. How illness and age are treated in terms of food consumption is another impact to what you eat and when. (Allen Grieco was a historian who wrote a good amount about this - granted he was more in the early modern period, but his writing on food in early modern/renaissance Italy is super fascinating. Recommend Food, Social Politics and the Order of Nature in Renaissance Italy as a good starting point.)

(granted, anything from Harvard Press' "Villa I Tatti" series is worth reading if you're into the early modern and renaissance period.)

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Ok I've gone on for too long. I just. fucking love thinking about food habits and rituals and all the weird little things that impact how and what we (or Grima) eat! It's so cool!

Thank you so much for the ask! <3 <3