#im not built for nuance and discussion

[mrowsters]

I wanted to discuss some things about tfone and get some thoughts out into the void. Beware it's very long. Also, SPOILERS for TRANSFORMERS ONE.

Ya know I was thinking about TF One today and i realized they are all literally babies. Babies that have never transformed. Who don't know how to use their T-Cog much less take care of said T-Cog.

Babies who were probably never given integral lessons like, say, how to take care of their armor, cause they were miners. And they didn't even have armor (not any armor that was valued in any way because of their societal status as laborers) Besides, they (were) cog-less so why teach them how to care for themselves in any way that matters because they're just gonna get banged up again in the mines anyway. Sure, they're all shiny now (because they have brand-new armor) but they have so much to learn about caring for themselves and their health and what they should and shouldn't do because they're BABIES. LITERAL CHILDREN. AN ENTIRE GENERATION OF BOTS THAT DON'T KNOW INTEGRAL PARTS OF WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A CYBERTRONIAN.

DEAR GOD WHAT KIND OF HEALTH ISSUES ARE THE BABIES GONNA HAVE BECAUSE THEY WORKED IN THE MINES FOR THEIR INFANT-HOOD.

Ratchet and all the medics are gonna have some real work cut out for them. Orion, D-16, B-127, and Elita-One transforming was chaotic, imagine how the thousands of new-builds trying to figure it out together with only the advice from the three miners left that HAVE transformed.

Oh yeah and that racing board, assuming that every bot created became a miner after Sentinel's deal with the Quintessons (big assumption but there's no evidence to disprove it at this point....unless i missed it), Chromia, Cliffjumper, Mirage, Swerve, and everyone on that board is older than the miners. I just find it insane just how many bots are Older the Optimus Prime because he is a Baby. They are all Babies. They know a lot but they don't know so much too and dear God they're all babies. Just kids. Man Sentinel really fucked an entire generation of bots. Imagine all the extra shit they're gonna have to learn. WHAT OPTIMUS PRIME HAS TO LEARN.

Maybe I'm exaggerating, but it really feels like I'm not. Especially considering how the miners were treated by all of cybertronian society. (Ex: Bee getting stuck on sub-level 50 for being himself, the "Tier System," the constant reminders of their inferior status because of their lost cogs, the way regular bots ignore and don't acknowledge their presence (see the small scene of D-16 and Orion walking to the stadium, or the chase scene at the beginning of the movie), how excited the miners were to see Orion and D in the race [because that means if O+D can do it so can they and that means they are more than what others say they are],etc).

I really think it's gonna be an uphill battle for Optimus to truly bring their people together in the future movies. While showing Sentinel as a traitor of the highest regard and using the Matrix to get energon flowing again on Cybertron is a Fantastic start, I just feel like the Society Sentinel built to Separate the uppers and lowers of society can't be overturned in one day. They spent 50 cycles being split apart by what Sentinel deemed appropriate (something very scary to think about because he decided to take away newborns T-Cogs, what else has he decided on?) I honestly don't think that mindset that was instilled in the people, because let's face it, if your Prime, a damn near god-like authority, says its okay to dunk on the miners you're gonna do it to at least some degree because the Prime, and ultimately the Society he built, deems it acceptable behavior (it isn't acceptable behavior and im sure there's nuance because all bots have their own opinions and yada yada but we haven't SEEN these opinions except for maybe Darkwing's and the Prime Guard but they've been exiled so I'm not sure they count?) ((we can maybe count Chromia in this but all we saw her do was run over Orion and D-16 in the race so... Ultimately I would need more evidence to be sure)). And learning you were wrong AND to change your behavior AND the trust issues that are gonna come from this thanks to Sentinel's betrayal is not something that's gonna take everyone a day to achieve.

In the end the babies are gonna get stupid injuries. Ratchet and his team aren't getting ANY SLEEP. And I don't think things are gonna be okay in Iacon for a while, aside from Megatron and the Quints, that is. I'm interested to see where it's taken.

But also remember they are Babies. I also want to see them doing stupid shit because they don't know any better.

Small side note, the baby chevrons of Prowl and Bluestreak were adorable. I think I might've seen Smokescreen but I'm gonna have to watch it again to be sure. Just... Lil baby cheverons. Lil pointy. So cute. I hope they're gigantic now that they have T-Cogs. :3

[anachronistic-falsehood]

EPISODE 22 TRIVIA:

- "hey bizly can we fight an alligator next episode. i just wanna see who would win" "the hilarious thing is that we would LOSE because theyre MORE POWERFUL THAN US" i told you there would be more of this . theres a REASON im including it but also its just so fucking funny

- charlie: "my whole scale for this campaign now is alligator based. while we were getting shot at i kept thinking 'man i wonder how an alligator would deal with this'" alligators are power level 7 btw.

- yakko: "they should just replace all low level superheroes with alligators in costumes" "prime defenders becomes alligators and its like penguins of madagascar"

- "do you think william wisp could beat an alligator in a cartoon beatboxing battle" "no. i dont think alligators can beatbox but william would still lose" i love a loser boy

- theyre trying to get bizly to tell them what power level wavelength is and he wont tell them so they said "put it in alligator terms"

- grizzly wants to pick up a new character quirk for dakota: having one consistent bit per episode and then dropping it at the end of the epispde and picking up a different one next time (like the psychic thing) . yakko was like "its like he sees a new hobby and thinks its gonna be cool and then gets bored of it in like a week" dakota adhd king

- LIZARD UPDATE: crocodiles are power level 8. a crocodile has almost as much charisma as william wisp

- theyre looking at the page from the rulebook now . "youre telling me a komodo dragon is power level 6??? look how dumb that thing looks thats how powerful we are."

- THEY POSTED A PICTURE OF THE PAGE FROM THE BOOK. ITS ALL LIZARDS. WHY DOES THE SUPERHERO TTRPG NEED SO MANY DIFFERENT LIZARD STATBLOCKS

- yakko: "look at the komodo dragon. thats how i feel every time i play prime defenders"

- "MARK IS PART LIZARD. what type of lizard is he. thats how we figure out his power level."

- on this topic, yakko goes: "wait ashe doesnt know marks lizard stuff was from experiments maybe he thinks its genetic. what if next episode he goes up to mark like 'so like am i gonna get lizard powers when i grow up'

- "bizly your silence during this discussion is speaking volumes. can we level up." ".... SURE. NOW YOURE AS POWERFUL AS AN ALLIGATOR"

- PRIME DEFENDERS POWER LEVEL 7. YIPPEE

- i fucking love the lizard discussion its so funny. this isnt trivia but like they have BARELY talked about the episode its all lizard power levels

- the angel that ashe summons to heal people is not a literal angel its just a spirit that happens to look like that

- williams suit was built with all kinds of mystery solving stuff in it!! there were a couple things mentioned in the episode but they specifically say here it has a feat called Always Rolling which gives him a bodycam that records everything they do

- back to the alligator situation. there is a statblock for "army soldier" that is. power level 4 (or 5? they dont say specificially) so now theyre back on this again "YOURE TELLING ME. all the training and shit they go theough and theyd still lose to a fucking gator? THEY HAVE GUNS."

- in order for ashe to summon things he has to say an incantation AND physically have the book open to the right page! so he cant just memorize things he actually physically needs to have the book

- "dakota is so endearing i love him so much" ME TOO

- a lot of the way grizzly plays dakota is inspired by beast boy from teen titans ... i love this about him

- "tide's being stupid and now we have to go save him so he doesnt die"

bizly: "no, tide's not being stupid. he knows fully what hes getting himself into, he just loves his family and would do anything for his family" :(((

- they had this whole discussion about how sad it is that tide was trusting them to make a choice and actively inviting them to a thing that he probably knew was gonna be dangerous and how they betrayed him by making the choice to go with mark instead and it sort of starts to turn into a nuance argument and charlie shuts the whole thing down by going "actually i think tide is an alligator" and thats where they fucking end it

- vyncents fisherman class is not real its just for a bit/for flavor but every day i wish it was

OK I SHOULD HAVE ANSWERED THESE BEFORE I STARTED S2 BUT OH MY GOD THAT LIZARD PAGE. WHY ARE THERE SO MANY LIZARDS. WHO NEEDS THIS MANY LIZARDS IN ONE CAMPAIGN. the fucking alligator oh my god it's insane that overlord is actually a fucking alligator. thats so fucking funny. oh my god

ASHE'S HEALING ANGEL ISN'T ACTUALLY AN ANGEL IT'S JUST A SPIRIT THAT LOOKS LIKE THAT AND SAYS SHIT LIKE "BE NOT AFRAID" I LOVE THAT. prime defenders silliest ttrpg campaign ever

knowing that grizzly plays dakota with beast boy in mind makes soooo much sense. that is beast boy right there!!!!!

vyncent's fisherman class should have been real and canon </3 in my mind it is in fact canon. what would the fisherman's name be..... that is the question

[neotrances]

What opinion?

on my old blog i was talking about the porn industry preying on marginalized communities namely corporal giants knowingly hosting trafficking material / underage material / swarms of incredibly racist and bigoted content and ignoring the people begging to have their content taken down / introspection of the content being hosted on their platforms and how different irl sex work (stripping, full service, escorts) is from onlyfans and essentially how different irl sw is from camming regarding basic risk and battery ect ect and ppl got rlly mad about it but my main point is not that swers cant make choices or shouldn’t have the right to make their career however they see fit bit that the industry is deeply misogynistic in nature and saying so is not an attack on them but rather a criticism of why sex sells, namely the discussion had points about the differences of how statistically transfems swers have a wildly different experience with sw compared to people who offer services solely online and we should be listening to experiences from all sw and not just online creators who have the opportunity to screen and choose clientele that many irl swers do not have, only bringing this up bc of seeing mutuals comment on a post where the op centers men who pay for sex services and incels (they specifically mentioned incels im not just calling these clientele incels) as ‘sad’ and in needing of defense for mild mockery, which to me i don’t find the act of purchasing porn or paying someone for sex inherently harmful to a degree but i don’t understand how mildly being like “lol this guy had to pay someone to sleep with him” is bad or evil especially when the op themselves mentioned incels in regards to who could be clients as if being a self identified incel isn’t an inherently misogynistic state, yadda yadda before someone gets mad no im not a terf, trans women r women, and trans women across the board make up a large portion of irl sex workers specifically bc of facing transphobia that often makes it hard for them to remain in the regular workforce, feminism has to be intersectional or it is meaningless, criticizing industries that are built on the backs of mostly women is not an attack on women who participate but just a criticism of how they are often not protected and subjected to unfair treatment by their bosses and the police force, i think my experience of growing up and mainly seeing curb escorts in my community as well as being trafficked myself has given me a lot of ig perspective? i think the convo is more nuanced than “all clients are saints and if u joke about them being lame ur just a misandrist / hate sex workers” and i also dislike how a lot of the conversation centers online sw when a majority of swers are irl workers, not to say online sw isn’t real and has no risk but that it is a different ball park

[loverofallthingssmart]

PLEASE UNLEASH your hadestown demons!!!!!

unleash my hadestown demons is right this is a BEAST thank you very much ive satisfied the brain worms by dumping all my thoughts under the cut

first off. the beauty of live theatre allows for so much nuance and beauty to demonstrated so i cant even begin to cover all the things that could make me insane its so wonderful i love live theatre everyone should watch at least one live theatre production i believe it will solve at least one problem they have

the tragedy of it all!! its a sad song but we sing it anyway, in hopes that we hope that orpheus doesn't turn. but he will. bc he loves eurydice so much so he went down to the underworld to save her.

guys. the repeated, cyclical nature of everything. its an old tale from way back when and its a sad song but they sing it anyway. the point of hadestown is the HOPE of it all wait theres an article (https://www.standard.co.uk/culture/theatre/anais-mitchell-hadestown-west-end-broadway-b1134613.html) regarding mitchell's thoughts on orpheus that make me insane im gonna paste a quote here:

"If Hadestown has a moral, she says, then it’s “you have to try, you have to have hope, not because success is a given – it’s not. Orpheus fails. We heroicise” – here she breaks off to apologise that jet lag has led to her making up words – “we heroicise Orpheus not because he succeeds but because he tries, and that endeavour alone is worthwhile. How to live, and not merely survive, is to believe things could change.” ARE U KIDDING ME OURGHH

which brings me to the topics of like. climate change and capitalism that the play discusses its so good. the fact that there's no spring or fall, only summers and winter because of persephone's absences, how "is it true" is just a song abt labor protests red carnations are a symbol of love and passion yes, but in germany theyre a symbol of the working class protest. its SO important hades has just created an industrial revolution, has built a wall, has workers work forever, "why we build the wall" is soooo incredible "hey little songbird" "chant" all the songs that take place IN hadestown itself are sooo gritty so despondent in a way its insane.

theres another article that discusses sm of it AND discusses like portrayals of persephone that i REALLY like. im gonna paste it here PLEASE read it it has so much good stuff from a classics person regarding it and OURGH too good

orpheus's "to the world we dream about" but then also "the one we live in now" like oh.okay. im NORMAL….

if u noted every single lalala in hadestown it would be 6 min long. the leitmotif oh i am so normal actually.

okay im not rlly a music person i call myself music adjacent bc my two closest friends r music ppl LMAOJDHJS but like. the first time u hear eurydice say "i do" i.e what you say to seal a marriage is after she tells orpheus she signed the papers. she does not say "i do" in the entireity of wedding song, where they talk abt their nuptials. she says "i do" in informing orpheus she cant come up with him. that she chose this life (or death i guess) of her own doing. isnt that vile….

in wedding song she goes "is he always like this" and hermes responds but then in "a gathering storm" she asks the same question to no response.. idk what's there but something is there.

hermes being the narrator thats involved in the play is SOOOO delicious for my brain, the way he switches between a character involved in orpheus and eurydice getting together, invested in their relationship to a all-knowing narrator who knows the end bc he sees this every time.

there's this sense that only orpheus and eurydice do not know they r in a repeated play. which heightens their love at first sight, the "i feel like i know u but ive just met you" OHHHHH my god.

the original nytw script having orpheus say "ur early. i missed u." directly paralleling hades and persephone but in a different context because OHHHHMYGOD and not even that but the fact that mitchell took it out bc she believed it engaged the brain when the moment should only directly engage the heart. so she had the lovers say each other's name. one last time. im soooo normal

also this is bc one time i was thinking abt hadestown and mitski's remember my name played so . just that song in the context of hadestown is SOOOO bc like. like. how eurydice couldn't rmbr herself when she became a worker but orpheus went down to save her and she remembered.

when he turns back and says.

"it's you" "it's me"

^ are you fucking kidding me. the sort of disbelief the happiness the love the incoming grief im inconsolable.

when orpheus turns back, eurydice says his name w so much joy SO MUCH JOY she is not upset at him. "what was there to complain of, except that she'd been loved?" <- quote from metamorphoses

like yes we wish orpheus doesnt turn around but at the end of the day, orpheus is still the trusting guy he was in the beginning. EURYDICE on the other hand KNOWS how cruel the world is and chooses to trust orpheus anyway. but. "it's a tragedy" and doubt creeps in. part of the tragedy lies in the fact that eurydice, "all ive ever known is to hold my own" eurydice runs after him w open arms, chooses to trust him, chooses to follow the trial, and he still turns around. BECAUSE he loves her ohhhmygod im so normal

obligatory mention to the fact that orpheus could never finish the song he was working on because it was a duet. like okay lol. im fine im normal hahahahaha are u fucking kidding me.

hades and orpheus are mirrors, there r two relationships in the musical obviously and it is clear theyre mirrors of each other even w/o the original script line but like.

hades gives orpheus the test that he himself goes through every spring. hades is the villain of the story yes but he is not evil. he gives orpheus the same trial, sees that if orpheus can judge him for losing faith in his wife through the course of their relationship, let's put his romantic nature to the test. let's see if he can feel the absence of his love and keep going. and he cant. bc orpheus has never had to learn how to fend for himself. so when u take away his support system, when u take anyone's support system, how is he, how r we supposed to succeed?

just. the song "how long" encapsulates hades and persephone's relationship SO WELL. "the girl means nothing to me." "i know. but she means EVERYTHING to him" the fact that this is the first time we persephone REFUSE a drink bc shes had enough oh were SOMBER somber the way the whole song just parallels itself and every verse GOD.

the love was there. the hope was there. its a sad song. its a love song.

every single time before they leave. every time they're on stage, eurydice is in front of orpheus. he trusts that she is before him and she never doubts that he is there. it is when their positions change, him in front and her behind that he bends. it is then that doubt comes in.

those r just the like the thoughst of the music and themes itself we can talk abt the ppl and the live play now:

so first. can we talk abt this we need to talk abt for reeve carney's last show the original orpheus his last show he didnt turn back. he and eurydice lived they passed the trial. sorry that makes me so insane bc like. imagine u play orpheus. doomed to a lifetime of looking back at ur lover and your final show, u finally get to stay. oh im very normal i just love the nuances of live theatre!!! what a send off!!!!

THEN we can talk abt how eva and solea play PERFECT eurydices, full of grit and used to the cruel nature of the world. and how lola tung i feel is a DECENT singer but shes not a eurydice shes so light and soft but idk. who am i to say.

also the soundtrack is just SO incredible so is the set design there's not a single ounce of stage space that is wasted like there are so many nuances like i cant even talk abt all that there is my FAVORITE musical for SOOO many reasons ough.

yeah i think that's it. this took me MULTIPLE hours and i feel drained abt talking abt all this. WOW i love hadestown not normal amounts. i can't die before i see this live its one of my goals i just need to see it live on broadway.

[bestworstcase]

do you think there's anything to be implied about the quality of rwby's writing and framing in light of how much of the audience misinterprets salem/oz and the role of the gods? i see so many people reading the lost fable as a straightforward condemnation of salem and ozma as a pretty basic tragic hero that it makes me nervous about the future of the show and that IM reading too much into things when i see more nuance in salem. are that many people really that shallow when engaging with rwby? idk

nah people are—well tbh i think what it comes down to mainly is that fandom is not really centered around critical analysis, it’s centered on transformative engagement, and while these are by no means mutually exclusive endeavors they are in fact. Different. analytical vs transformative approaches to the text are different endeavors with different goals requiring different skillsets and can but do not inherently overlap. frankly in fandom spaces i think real textual analysis is not just ancillary but actively discouraged; nobody is quicker to respond to analytical discussions with “it’s not that deep” than a fan who doesn’t like the discussion and there is a noticeable tendency in fandom spaces for any analysis that isn’t 100% ebullient to be read as negativity or critical—e.g. note the frequency with which my reading of ozma is interpreted as character bashing—which isn’t to say that fandoms do not engage analytically at all, but in broad terms there is something of an unspoken… chilliness toward textual analysis in fandom culture. and i am saying this from the perspective of having written a lot of textual analysis and a lot of fanfiction across different fandoms; there is A Pattern. you write a detailed analytical breakdown of your reading of a character and see people tagging it fandom negativity while gushing about the detailed character study you wrote based on that same reading enough times and you start to pick up on the fact that maybe fandoms are not really built for analytical engagement. there is also the whole thing where fandom has an entire category of headcanon predicated on “this thing happened in the text but i don’t like it so no it didn’t” and a second entire category predicated on “this has no basis and is possibly out of character but i like it so happened actually” lmao [TO BE CLEAR THIS IS NOT A VALUE JUDGMENT I HAVE NONSENSE HEADCANONS ALSO ITS FINE.]

anyway this is all fine but! because fandoms devote the bulk of their collective energy into pouring out vast endless streams of like, fanfic and fanart and headcanon and “ship dynamics” [i still do not quite understand what these are] and incorrect quote mills and so forth you tend to get a sort of collective flattening of the text. there is a tendency for characters to be stripped down and reduced to small easily-manageable sets of tropes derived more from aesthetics and first impressions and for any moral complexity to be boiled down to simple black and white and for unique worldbuilding to be smudged a bit until it resembles its nearest recognizable trope. there is a sort of creative entropy. a smooth surface is easier to write on. also sometimes fans do not Obsessively Rewatch The Show four times in the space of a year and over time details get memetically blurred and this, obviously, is detrimental to the overall fidelity-to-canon of popular fanon.

and then like the thing to remember about rwby is it’s a very detail-oriented story, and one that respects its audience. the one downside of that storytelling approach is that fandom is uniquely ill-equipped for it (think about how many people Completely Missed that ironwood was on the express train to fascism land in V4-5 even though. the narrative made it like. hilariously obvious)

In Summary i lived through the fandom where the protagonist after two years of increasingly toxic behavior towards her bestie, charbroiled her friend’s arm into a shriveled blackened husk and not only did not apologize but had a whole episode about being mad at the friend for being upset and then 95% of the fandom was shocked when the friend went “fuck you” and stole the magical artifact whose power was involved in the charbroiling incident all of four episodes later; and almost two years later half the remaining is still Discoursing about how the friend “didn’t have a reason” for betraying the protagonist. tts was a show written with small children in mind. i have witnessed Actual Forty Year Olds insisting that this character’s betrayal was petty and childish. rwby is a lot more tightly-written and nuanced and not a disney princess cartoon and while it does benefit from its fandom not being mostly Disney People the fandom is still. A Fandom. doing what fandoms… do.

[sevilemar]

I realised I never answered your last ask, nonny, and I'm sorry. It got kinda lost in the shuffle of tumblr and life, and if it's not relevant for you anymore, then feel free to ignore.

Yeah, nope, you're right, that's a long stretch, with the fire and all. It might be hard to find any examples, and even with the questions that the quiz gives, there's a lot of nuance,

Yeah, there are. That's why sorting is an art, not a science. Too many variables ;)

for example I rarely care about whether to be right or kind, I care about being calm and safe,

Quite sensible, if you ask me. But also, does that make being calm and safe morally the right choice?

which kind of removes being right from choices, with how much prooving that you're right would cost you in energy and in social status. Would I try to prove to someone upper in work or social status that hunting for pleasure is bad and they're a monster? No, but neither would I do the same with someone at the same level. They'd be a monster only to me, and not that they would care I think.

That's certainly a practical approach, which is fine by me. Although calling them a monster shows that you feel about it strongly. If you did not have safety and energy concerns, would you have that discussion with them?

But in the family it's free and safe, or at least it should be.

It should be, though it's often not.

Idk, instead of trying to argue that I might be a snake I guess I'm walking over to the maybe I'm actually a badger who lived outside of who they thought was normal and human and only recently started to unburn and feel human like.

I'm grateful you got there, nonny *hugs*

I'm not sure but I've started to work in a big group and I've got a nice intern for a second week and if the day is good, I'm happy and I feel like there's nothing else I need and I don't have any other ambitions,

That sounds very badger indeed. Hope it's still going good!

which I know was always there but I had to grew shit on top of it bcs you just can't live like this.

Why not? It's a perfectly good ambition to find a group you can work with, a group to belong. Sounds to me like there is someone telling you it's not enough, someone that's not yourself. Any idea who taught you this one, nonny?

But. But. Im not sure. The quiz is picking up on something badgery for these 2 weeks but maybe I'm just happy about having a little connection island not built on anxiety and fear. Maybe I'm just feeling human and that I don't need to emotionally serve anyone or be anxious about my every word.

Ah man, sounds like you got a little breather from survival mode, nonny *hugs*. How's it going with the group, any new thoughts on this front?

Yeah, I'm in awe watching ravening war and seeing how healthy the cast is, and how much trust they have in eatch other to not hurt them. My ass could never.

I loved Ravening War, beginning to end. So many awesome people, so much awesome DnD!

So, for the final question, where would it be able to say this is an unburning loyalist and where is it just human stuff, saying hey you can relax a bit now?

That's the question, isn't it? It's part of why I'm not really comfortable sorting people anymore. Shc is great, but it has its limits. It's so difficult to say what's sorting and what's survival, for example, or mental illness, or neurodivergence, or just situational, etc. I am not qualified to do that, and especially not when people are hurting.

I hope it went well with your group and with your intern, nonny!

[drunkenfeminista]

oh god, not the ace discourse on my feed in the year 2023...

no one deserved the level of hate that ace folks in that era got on here. no one deserves death threats, endless harassment, doxxing, and all manner of other awful awful actions against them simply for existing in a way thats different from others. it was disgusting to see back then and it still is to this day.

i do still find it endlessly frustrating and disrespectful though to see so many ace folk and allies consistently push this narrative that those who are ace are inherently queer/LGBT and that the queer folk who tried to correct that belief are actually horrible monstrous bigots who all violently attacked ace people. this isnt true and never was true, even admitted in the replies to this very post where ppl point out a lot of people doing that were also transphobic/homophobic in ways. a lot of ace people at that time refused to understand that the LGBT community and the very acronym itself, were not some open subculture or general group of societal "outcasts" like punks or goths that you could simply just declare you were a part of because you wanted to be. whether ace people want to accept it or not, being asexual is not an inherently queer thing. a LACK of sexual ATTRACTION is not in the same category as queer romantic/sexual attraction or even more so an experience of gender dysphoria of some kind. you can be asexual while also being cishet. where is the queerness there? if you are ace and trans or ace and homoromantic, you ARE queer, but not because of your asexuality. you are valid and real if you are asexual and NO ONE has the power or right to say you are faking it or attack you for it or any of the toxic shit that DID eventually happen, but a lot of people have ignored the fact that ace people essentially threw a fit about not being seen as LGBT until they victimized themselves enough to just be haphazardly lumped in with a community that was at the forefront of civil rights for marginalized identities. which, in my opinion, has done A LOT of damage to the progress the queer community was trying to make at the time. it is not solely on the shoulders of ace people, im not saying that at all, but it did play a factor in my opinion.

a lot of people dont seem to understand that the fights for queer rights, the establishing of marginalized communities, and the defense of othered peoples is an incredibly complex and complicated issue with a lot of nuance, grey area, and definitely mistakes to be made that are a core part of the discussion. let me tell you, as an ANCIENT tumblrite, this website was NOT a place for nuanced discussion in 2014-2017 and it frankly barely is now. when i was in my late teens and early 20s, the entire world was black and white and you were either on the side of good people or you were an evil monster and my part of the ace discourse was the first time i was seen as some evil person by what i thought was *my* community as a lesbian trans woman. it very much opened my eyes to the fact that things are not simple, these discussions are not good vs evil, reality isnt a movie or a comic book. but we were all kids or young stupid adults and most of us were growing up in a time period where it was becoming okay to simply exist as we were. the LGBT community was sort of a beacon for that and so EVERYONE tried to jump in the pool not realising it wasnt built for that.

at the end of that whole time period, i and plenty of other people like me were labelled monstrous acephobes and it was very disheartening to see when our only real message was that ace people dont belong in *this* community, not that they dont deserve one at all or more generally to exist. i love my ace friends and most of them agree with me outright, but its still something argued and fought over today with the same lack of nuance i saw back then. human beings dont like to be told they dont belong somewhere because were told the general idea of not belonging somewhere is inherently bad when it isnt. sometimes, things arent made or created for everyone and that is perfectly okay. its why communities and beliefs are built everyday; not everything is a perfect match for who you are or what you stand for. it is okay to accept that without either side making the other out to be a villain.

I don't think younger/newer users fully grasp the shit show that ace discourse was around 2014-17

It was so hostile that, to this day, discussions that begin to derail just enough can make me physically nauseous, some specific mockery trigger crying sessions years later. We lost most accounts with any sort of ace positivity. There was no information, no support, and all this damage was done predominantly by other queer people.

All this to say that you, however you identify yourself, should be engaging with aphobic comments the same way you do any hate. We don't sugarcoat or try to be comprehensive with people who are blatantly racist, homophobic or terfs, so why give it a pass just because it's coming from a queer person? I see how this tolerance goes and it's done enough damage as it is.

[sirbnny]

part of me growing up and getting less online has made me realize that i don't have to have an opinion on every single thing ever. nobody is built for that and if a bit of discourse is too nuanced or complicated for me to choose a concrete side on i can just. not.

idk whether im pro or anti endo and i don't know whether im pro or anti ship. and it doesn't matter. not that these issues can't be important and worthy of discussion to other people, just that there are things going on in the world that are more important and i don't have the energy anymore to think and care about both the important stuff and the discourse stuff lol.

this certainly isn't a unique or controversial opinion ive just always been kind of obsessive over internet discourse and so it feels big to me to get to the point where i am able to, or at least have the brains to try to, move on with my day when i see some minor discourse online without feeling like a monster for not caring about it

[ladychlo]

x

[toytulini]

Aghg one of my fb friends from highschool who i thought was p cool suddenly made one of those….militant vegan posts…“if u still eat meat how can u say u truly LOVE animals?” someone commented “humans are omnivores?” And she was like “how so?” Shes a fucking nurse im just. Aaaaaagjggg. I might try to look up sources and explain to her but i feel this is gonna end up intersecring with fatphobia shit amd she is/was bigger than me, im definitely not fat and i have no fucking clue how to approach the situation of trying to spread body posi education, as a tbin person, specifically to fat/larger ppl with internalized fatphobia? Augh

[wurmeatworld]

I apologize for assuming your experiences. If I am understanding correctly, you are upset because you feel as though OP is saying your experiences are fundamentally different when, in fact they are quite similar despite being diagnosed at different times? Correct me if Im wrong. Regardless, looking at OPs original post, and my own reply, I believe you have missed the point (though in my case, I suppose that can be excused since you didnt bother to read it, right?).

It doesnt matter how similar your personal experiences are to OPs. Even if your own personal experiences are similar to OPs, there are many, many other autistics whos experiences are different. I will repeat myself, because you didnt read it:

"Our ability to mask dictates how people treat us. The less we can fit in, the worse we are treated. Its not a matter of jealousy or infighting or oppression olympics. It is a simple fact about being a part of any minority group. It's insane to me that you think this is a white discussion because the same basic principles have been discussed in regards to racism, homophobia, transphobia, you name it. Just google colorism, for example."

"I would also like to note that oppression is not a sliding scale of more oppressed or less oppressed. There are a lot of factors that play into how we are treated, and while the severity of our oppression isnt equal, to just measure based on that is foolhardy because it is a huge spectrum with tons of unique situations. You seem to have at least some grasp on that, since you brought up how autistic people of colors experiences and the experiences of autistic ppl of different genders can be different. These are often large factors in how an autistic person is ultimately treated, but that doesn't mean other factors like a childs ability to conform dont factor in."

I am not arguing that All Autistics Who Can Mask are inherently different from those who cant and Will Never Understand. Im arguing that whether you can mask is one factor that determines how you are treated, and the experiences of autistic ppl who cant mask deserve the space to be discussed on their own without people jumping on the discussion to say theyre being ableist for not talking about other situations that can lead to a similar experience.

"I do not see anywhere in this post where OP said late diagnosed, masking autistics are less autistic or less disabled. Those are words you typed out and added to the post. If you think that I or OP saying autistic people who cant mask are treated worse than those who can is the same as saying they are more autistic or more disabled, you need to learn better reading comprehension and check yourself. There is nuance to this discussion that you do not seem to be getting. Please try to consider this in good faith and learn."

And finally, and this is important that you actually read:

"On one last note, I am deeply uncomfortable by how you brought up gender in this post. First of all, there was no need to say "females" when you meant to say people brought up as female. Second of all, yes, it is true that autistic diagnostic criteria is built upon white autistic cis boys, and that autistic poc and autistic women are often not diagnosed because of this. But to lump every autistic child into either afabs or amabs is transphobic, inaccurate, and erases the experiences of trans and gnc children. If you can recognize that theres intersectionality between gender, race, and neurodivergency you can recognize that theres intersectionality when a child is trans too. To reduce an autistic child to either "seen as male" or "seen as female" is gross, biologically deterministic, and literal terf rhetoric. You should be ashamed of yourself."

there is a bad toxic part of me that feels petulantly bitterly resentful of certain kinds of autism advocacy online. like, "it's okay if you're late diagnosed, it's okay if you've learned how to mask your traits, you still deserve support :3" stuff. i know it's my problem, because i know many people are genuinely hurting & need to be told this, but i feel like i'm being left out and i just want to bark and growl. i was diagnosed at age 5, i can't mask away the strange offputting parts of my speech patterns and body language, i can barely take care of myself. this is why i snap whenever my neurodiversity posts get noticed by "former gifted kid" type autists, because while you were having unfair expectations placed on you by doting teachers who were proud of your academic accomplishments i was being talked around and talked down to by people who didn't think i could understand them.

i don't actually know what i would want done in order to make me feel more included. im just snapping uselessly at people with different problems than me, it's an issue with me, and i should probably stop.

[carpisuns]

I feel like prpr stans are the Sophisticated ones in this fandom, the ones with High Tastes, the Elite, who sip from their glasses of fine wine and slowly make their way through a seven-course gourmet meal while they discuss the meaning of true art and the nuances of the human condition. I respect their fine tastes. I admire their exquisite work and indulge in it myself. But deep down Im just not built for that level of class. I’m the one eating chicken nuggets in a ball pit bc even though I recognize how keenly delicious some well-written prpr can be, nothing will ever be as satisfying to me as HNNNNG THEY REVEAL,,, AND SMOOCH IMMEDIATELY,,, AND LIVE HAPPILY EVER AFTER😭😭😭

[enderspawn]

"you cant take a characters words at face value, especially when they are in emotionally compromising situations!" yes, i agree! but that doesnt mean they are inherently always lying either. you have to then look at their other words and, more importantly, their other actions so find the truth.

for example: when s1 wilbur says that he doesn't care about lmanberg or the people inside it and wants to blow it up, we know he's lying. he later shows that he, actually, doesnt want anyone hurt ("if you're going to kill anyone, kill me") and still cares a lot about the people stuck inside (like niki, who he left frequent gifts for when he could and was a massive contribution to slowing his spiral). likewise, when speaking with phil in the button room (where i feel he has little reason to lie anymore) he even admits hes come here "7 or 8 times before" and never went through with it. he's cautious and conflicted, which conflicts with his line at face value.

but when dream says he "doesn't care about anyone or anything" after spirit dies except for tommy's discs (or more simply, tommy and being able to control tommy such as via the discs), what do we see after? him dethroning his friend for not being neutral enough (and yes, partially bc george was attacked a lot, i fully admit!) and thus causing more strain on their friendships, him putting himself in positions (such as exile and as tubbo's "friend") to get closer to the discs and to tommy, him building a literal shrine to the discs and planning to kill tubbo and imprison tommy for an unspecified amount of time (even if the prison wasn't originally built for tommy, it doesn't change the fact that he was indeed planning it). the fact that it took tommy threatening his death to get dream to come back down to the hall of attachments. even in the prison he still seems so focused on tommy (him asking if quackity thought him killing tommy was cool comes to mind). these actions simply DONT conflict with his line, if anything they help confirm it as true.

im not saying you can't still argue that he secretly cares about things other than tommy. if you like that interpretation, go wild! im sure theres bits you can point to and if you have fun w it im not here to be the fun police and tell you to stop

but, imo, theres 100x more overwhelming evidence that he doesnt. the majority of his actions simply do not line up with the idea that he still truly cares about anything other than tommy and w the fact we never get to see his pov and only him in the eyes of others theres no other definitive proof to back that claim up. to try and ignore his attachment to tommy and his lack of attachments to literally anything else does a massive disservice to his character, frankly, because the canon c!dream we have is massively intriguing to try and understand.

and dont get me wrong, i fully understand why people get wrapped up in trying to fully unravel and understand c!dream. you see how fucked up he is now and you wonder what happened along the way. why is he like this? so you start thinking: maybe he's lying to himself, maybe he's incredibly mentally ill as well and spiralling out of even his own control.

but the issue is this: we have no fucking clue. we might never tbh. what that is above is speculation, and while that may help to get you to sympathize or 'better understand' him its not based in canon, which is why we get these massive debates and c!dream "apologists" fighting over why he does the things he does. WE DON'T KNOW AT ALL WHY HE DOES THOSE THINGS, ONLY WHAT HE DOES.

we don't have his pov to fill in the gaps. you can state anything about his mental state and if hes "actually lying" or not and you can't prove it 100% right OR wrong. he HAS nuance and depth already, but we never got to see it develop and filling in the gaps with your own ideas can lead to this... misunderstanding of how c!dream really thinks or works.

i want you to understand, i'm not saying this to try and attack anyone either, please don't misconstrue me, i'm saying this to try and understand myself why c!dream is such a conflicting character for many ppl to discuss and i think this is kind of it: how much of your analysis is based on the direct actions dream takes that we get to see directly and how much of your analysis is based on trying to figure out/assume the dream pov we dont have

[jaqfrost]

can we talk about the woman called fujiko mine and the way it is a subversive masterpiece please … most underrated piece of media out there

I’ll be honest; I don’t know what kind of answer to give. As much as I enjoy TWCFM, I don’t consider it a masterpiece, though I do think it’s currently the best story-driven lupin series. and tbh I don’t consider it underrated either. it’s niche, even within the franchise, but it gets enough attention imo. If anything, this ask gave me a reason to do a proper rewatch (which was fun) and give some assorted thoughts.

(im sorry this got long 😭; I tried my best to keep it as straightforward as possible)

As I’ve mentioned, this was my gateway series into Lupin. Going in, I knew nothing about the franchise or its characters so each time one of the main guys showed up after their 1st appearance, I was like ‘Really?? Him again???” (which is what Fujiko probably thought too). Anyways I watched it all in one night and immediately wanted more. Especially if it involved Fujiko (and thankfully she’s present in 99% of lupin media even if writing may vary :/).

I forget my exact feelings on the ending, but it was nothing overly positive or negative. It took a rewatch (after I watched more lupin stuff) and reading some reviews before I ‘got’ it on some level. And as I became more familiar with the characters, rewatching continued to be an interesting experience (like my view on TWCFM Jigen has truly Evolved.)

Still, there’s things I question about the series.

For starters, I think ppl sometimes slap the subversive+feminist label onto the series without any nuance or caveat. does it subvert expectations irt Fujiko’s character? sure, but it’s also a series with an episode where Fujiko acts as a teacher at Catholic school and up to a certain point, the viewer thinks she’s seducing a high school student 😕. it’s also a narrative that’s built on the story of a horrifically abused child who dies as Fujiko becomes free of the girl’s story. I think a better line would be there’s a lot to discuss from a feminist perspective. at times, the story itself feels more of a commentary on female characters and tropes in fiction/abstract than like, actual women. it is a story about stories after all.

I’m not going to spend too much on this point, but Oscar. I’ve read different takes on him and I’m not going to say on whether or not he’s a good/well-written character; I can see his purpose in the series (I question the choice of it tho), but I also see how his character can give credence to transphobia and homophobia (his unhealthy love for Zenigata, cross-dressing, the straw misogyny, etc). I can’t tell for sure what points writers trying to make with the character and the ending is still a head scratcher for me tbh; I hope he got help I guess?? The theory that he was one of Aisha’s Ifs that got away is interesting…

And Aisha’s story is something I go back and forth on. On one hand, there is something invigorating about seeing Fujiko overcome and affirm herself as herself, but it does leave a bad taste in my mouth when the person she’s affirming herself to is a young woman who had her childhood ripped apart by horrific abuse. She doesn’t get to just shake it all off like Fujiko does. While I understand the intent behind her final scene (as she lives through projecting herself onto others), having her die while watching Fujiko happily splash around at the beach is a little weird (though one could argue that Fujiko’s saying I’m free for both of them since Aisha is unable to speak).

The story does at least highlight the fault is more on Aisha’s mother. Rather than try to guide her daughter in freedom after Almeida’s death (be a mother), she kept her daughter trapped in the same bubble while extending the same trauma on countless others in attempt to give her some semblance of a life and make up for her previous inability to protect her from Almeida. While it gave Aisha short-satisfaction, it did nothing to help her well-being, especially if she was obsessed with implanting the same experience into others, a process her mother facilitated.

Last one and I’m not too bothered by this complaint, but it still comes to mind when I think about this series’ intentions. While Fujiko is the center of the story, most of the time she’s not really proactive in it? After all it’s Lupin who investigates and figures out the mystery behind Fujiko’s ‘memories’ while Fujiko’s left grappling with the implanted memories and nearly loses herself in them. Like maybe Lupin was given too much focus in this series? Fujiko does get the final word at least.

Anyways I’d love to see them do more experimental series in the future (the Koike movies just aren’t the same, no matter how cool the style is). if only TMS weren’t cowards and took advantage of no concrete continuity rather than just arbitrarily keeping status quo. and I’d definitely love to see more Fujiko-centric stuff (part 6 was very eh, but it did give us a few Fujiko led episodes so maybe).

Like I said, I don’t consider TWCFM a masterpiece, but I can’t deny how much it fascinated me when I first watched it (I was still pretty new to anime at the time). Moreover, it made me think about the stories I wanted to tell with my own art, with both its strengths and flaws in mind. Almost eight years later and I'm still going back to it.

[archer3-13]

I gotta say, I find the idea of disregarding the meaning for an author's work kinda insulting cause it's their thoughts and whether we agree to it or not and regardless of whether it's just entertainment or trying to be this big artistic statement, disregarding authorial intent of a work kinda feels like you're spitting on their face. (This is regarding the whole postmodernism ideology and misuse of DoTA). Unless the author openly invites the idea of having your interpretation of course.

Aint nothing wrong feeling that way honestly. Its a complicated field of discussion with a lot of opposing viewpoints, i can give my 2 cents for instance or atleast what i think the general trends are but thats hardly an authorative voice on the subject.

for what its worth though, post modern thought as a method of artistic analysis isn't so much about disregarding the author as it is in challenging the author, hence why its called post modern to begin with. modernism as an artistic movement was/is all about foreword momentum, industrial might in many ways as it developed alongside industrialization, destruction of the past in many other ways as obsolete barriers to that forward momentum. post modern thought is there to put that narrative of foreword momentum into question, recontextualize our relations to art and challenge the grand western narrative as its often called. in that sense authorial intent certainly still matters, but that intent is challenged effectively. That said post modern thought does derive a lot of its meaning and structure in challenging the audience more so then the author but the point still stands.

the problem as ive alluded to before, is that when this challenge to the status quo eventually ended up becoming the status quo, a lot of that nuance ends up getting lost. a movement built on challenging the status quo effectively once pushed into being the status quo... can't really challenge the status quo anymore. so it gets dumbed down to a more market friendly/status quo ready format and the challenge of cultural relations and modes of hegemonic thought are thrown out in favour of simply the destruction of meaning and embrace of a nihilism.

sorry if this didnt make too much sense, Im kinda just jumping around here but hopefully ya get my point.

as for my own opinion im half and half i suppose, authorial intent can be a handy guide to understand artistic work, but i prefer when these things can stand and speak on their own. you shouldnt need the author on hand to explain things effectively and it bugs me that a lot of modern art tends to be structured that way.

[ill-be-istj-if-no-one-else-is]

what do you think is the most likely type to pull off the "agree to disagree" thing when they want to stop an argument? i hate it so much lmao. If i'm discussing smth with you is because 1) either i am right and want to prove a point/show you you're wrong or 2) im unsure and want other perspectives/i think im right but im actually wrong, in which case you should convince me of your argument/show me where im wrong. like... make it make sense.

The TJs are most likely to do this successfully, followed by FJs and FPs who are tied for different reasons, followed by mature TPs. The only people who don’t ever do this are people with no understanding of human psychology and who have no better things to do.

To your first point: mighty bold of you to assume you’re right. Sometimes you are! But also there are like, flat-earthers and anti-vaxxers and people who think aliens built the pyramids, not to mention, uh, racists/homophobes/bigots of all stripes, and most of those people are not like “hmm I think these things but I might be wrong :)”. No, they are like “I absolutely believe the earth is flat and I shall prove it”. A man literally built a rocket and died when he crash-landed in the pursuit of proving the earth is flat.

Sometimes people are right despite everyone thinking they’re wrong. The problem is a whole lot of people, not all of whom are high Ti users, think they are Galileo against the Catholic Church, speaking a truth that has been deemed heretical, when they are in fact tin-foil hat nutjobs (or, again, like, outright bigots who believe certain people are subhuman). And this happens on a far less extreme scale too, and so many people will be able to pick up on the simple truth that sometimes, people can be wrong and refuse to look at evidence for whatever reason and continuing an argument with them is pointless.

There are also a such thing as cases where we are not debating a fact but an opinion, and this isn’t an opinion where there will be any end outcome, and some people are bad at understanding that particular nuance and are like “HOW DARE YOU DISLIKE MY FAVORITE BOOK” and it’s like, well, I do, and this is not a judgment upon you or your tastes but merely me having different ones, and this argument is pointless so I’ll just be like “it wasn’t for me! glad it brings you enjoyment! bye!” because, and I think this is a key point here, tons of people don’t actually like arguing unless there is a clear end goal that arguing will bring about. Some people like arguing for its own sake! Many people do not. I do not. Sometimes my end goal is to show why my idea is good! Maybe we’re deciding what to do tomorrow, and there are two different ideas, and I vastly prefer one, and we only have time to do one, and I have a clear goal here: to convince my argument partner(s) why we should do the think I want. But if it’s an argument of whether chocolate or vanilla ice cream is better, like, you can like what you like and I can like what I like, my only goal here is to stop this boring discussion of ice cream flavors and actually obtain some ice cream for myself.

To your second point, if you are looking for opposite perspectives, have you expressed that? You didn’t give an example, so it’s absolutely possible the other side is not providing any evidence to convince you and is shutting down the argument for reasons that range from bad (too lazy to bother providing sources, which takes like 5 minutes and which they should do) or good (perhaps this is totally a matter of opinion and the outcome of this argument is literally nothing).

I can’t say why people do this, particularly without knowing the nature of the argument. Sometimes you are right and you’re dealing with a whiny baby who is wrong and won’t admit it, and that is frustrating, but again...you continuing to argue won’t make them magically stop being like that, so may as well quit and spend time on something that’s productive or at least not infuriating. But sometimes you’re arguing about something trivial and no one else wants to argue with you and you won’t shut up, or you’re wrong and ignoring the evidence, and so “agree to disagree” is a polite way to say “I think you are an annoying idiot and I am not enjoying this argument so I am putting an end to it.”

I’ve been in various organizations where there’s been voting on issues or on internal elected positions, and the magic phrase is “will anyone be swayed by further discussion.” If no one will be swayed, some people might be doing something wrong, but arguing is a waste of everyone’s time. Argument requires at least two consenting partners, and “agree to disagree” is someone revoking that consent.