#idk my last tags are also why I’m not a fan of the interpretation that Jyn was sitting and eating bonbons under the empire’s reign

[ct-hardcase]

.

[stardustdiiving]

I would read your zhongxiao codependent yuri Like, I do generally picture them as a vaguely father/son dynamic BUT THAT IS NOT CANON. It's just as much fun to view them through a romantic interpretation! Idk why people can't view the same characters in different kinds of relationships without being weird about it.

Anyway I love your vision and would love to hear more about it lakdjs

THANK U SO MUCH Im not sure if I’m gonna write zx in the future since I’ve tended to be shy about posting my stuff relating to them for over a yr now, but I did post this fic with them last year while trying to get a hold on how to write them (mind the tags it’s pure angst omg). I was too shy to tag it as ship since it didn’t feel shippy enough, which is kind of funny to me in hindsight bc I reread it and am like. Man I think only a zx shipper would write this NUFNVJVJV

Post got kind of lot Im gonna go on a tangent about them under the cut

Honestly my theory for why ppl r very set on the father/son interpretation is everyone’s immediate thought on to how to make the power imbalance between them seem less uncomfortable is to apply a parental interpretation to it. Which is fine ofc, I get it, but the way ppl push it as canon a lot kind of grates on me a little bc they’re usually incredibly passive aggressive and pushy even if u clearly designate ur post as ship OTL

Also not really a fan of the characterizations either since ppl tend to treat Xiao like a moody teenager Zhongli has to reel in (this is hilariously reminiscent of the post I made about how ppl handle scaramouche and nahida a bit ago haha). And idk I just feel kind of polarized about the headcanon overall bc I associate it with people being really uncomfortable and frustrating about zx

I just like how there’s sort of an imbalance to them, some zxs like them being more fluffy and functional but I sort of like it where it’s not like, entirely dysfunctional but I’m prioritizing a specific kind of character study over romance. This tends to be how a lot of my ships go ngl I just sometimes enjoy the intensity/intimacy of romantic feelings thrown into the mix if it makes it interesting but I’m not often interested in a lot of my ships following more standard romance plots(?) I guess? Unless it’s specific ones. Which sounds clinical when I put it like that but this is just bc I am very aromantic NHFBVJVJ

When I say codependency in zhongxiao honestly it’s sort of a theoretical(?) codependency—not sure how to word it? I think Xiao would be really fucked up if he didn’t have Zhongli in his life suddenly but I don’t think his relationship with getting attached to people invokes what people would majorly think of when they think of codependency in a ship I suppose. It’s moreso I just feel Xiao could be at his worst with dehumanizing himself in comparison to other people with Zhongli, because said mental state is driven by how he feels about debt, service, and duty which are very closely tied with devotion and how he would feel about someone he considers his god and leader, as well as someone who saved him

It’s fun this is paired with Zhongli who generally knows how to work with Xiao kind of understands the self destructive depth Xiao’s loyalty/devotion comes with. Also fun they have been around each other for a very long time and Xiao as one of the adepti is familiar with the past I think Zhongli appreciates having around. They work but it’s also a case where Zhongli is in such a position of power over Xiao its kind of very delicate situation that’s hard for both of them to navigate. Which is fun to explore. I esp love contrasting it with other Xiao pairings (actually i think i still have that xiaoven fic up on my ao3 where I tried to convey a specific interpretation of them in a similar exploration vein too)

I totally get why people wouldn’t like it (I feel a lot of my opinions on xiao ships just clash with a lot of fandom consensus so bad all the time And it’s just bc I’m like this I’m not even trying to be contrarian or anything. HELDINCJD) but I just tend to handle shipping in a specific way. It’s not I don’t enjoy fluffy or lighthearted zl and xiao stuff I actually enjoy it a lot I just like there being layers. This makes it feel more impactful when I think about how Zhongli looks out for Xiao in canon or how Xiao gets like textually flustered talking to him (lantern rite 2023 was so tailored to my tastes it’s not even funny)

[borom1r]

1-25 choose violence ask game ❤️

ALL OF THEM?????? you’re so real for this ty snfnsnbfns. doing LotR bc of course I am

1. the character everyone gets wrong

PIPPIN I HATE TO SAY IT BUT PIPPIN. all those incorrect quote polls that have been posted where pippin keeps fucking winning YALL REALIZE HES AN ACTUAL CHARACTER RIGHT?? with like depth?? and bonds?? and a personality. yall realize that right?????? right??? ik we all love 2 joke but he would not say half of those things

2. a compelling argument for why your fave would never top or bottom

ok I personally enjoy both for Boromir BUT if he IS topping. he is a service top. I will die on this hill

3. screenshot or description of the worst take you've seen on tumblr

I block ppl for these takes so no screenshots but everyone who thinks Boromir is a villain. if you think Boromir is a villain I will key your car.

4. what was the last straw that made you finally block that annoying person?

there is one singular straw and it is bad Boromir takes in the Boromir tag

5. worst discord server and why

I don’t join fandom discord servers bc I love myself too much for that 💗

6. which ship fans are the most annoying?

ummm idk? most of my lotr mutuals have different ships from me and it’s all chill. but tbf I’m very selective abt who I interact with now lmao.

7. what character did you begin to hate not because of canon but because how how the fandom acts about them?

no one yet thank fuck.

8. common fandom opinion that everyone is wrong about

Aragorn/Arwen isn’t actually romantic sorry I think it’s fucked up actually. the vibes are off there for SURE

9. worst part of canon

FARAMIR’S “yeah I’m gonna take you from your home and tame you. haha wdym. you don’t need a blade during times of peace.” SHTICK WITH ÉOWYN IN THE BOOKS. UNPACK YOUR BIASES YOU LITTLE FREAK!!!!!!!!

10. worst part of fanon

HM. I will stick with “people who horrifically misinterpret Boromir’s character”

11. number of fandom-related words you've filtered

at the moment I only have rings of power blocked but I’ve had that blocked since it came out bc if I look at the armor in that show I will commit crimes.

12. the unpopular character that you actually like and why more people should like them

MOVIE!FARAMIR MY SPECIALEST LITTLE GUY OOOOOOOOOO MOVIE!FARAMIR I LOVE YOUUUUUUUUUU he’s so handsome and special and I love him and you WILL all look at him and clap and cheer. it makes me insane that his temptation by the ring mirror’s Boromir’s and he’s actually fucking normal abt the Rohirrim AND I just love him very much :)

13. worst blorboficiation

ummm idk… maybe Frodo

14. that one thing you see in fics all the time

HMMM exposing myself but I basically only read Aragorn/Boromir fics lmao + since we’re Choosing Violence the most annoying thing is Boromir just being A Brute. like damn I love the surface level reading of the text maybe try engaging with it above a 1st grade analysis next time 💗

15. that one thing you see in fanart all the time

hmmmmm idk cuz again I don’t interact w a lot of fanartists so there’s nothing like. annoying. all th ✨motifs✨ I do see r very fun + I like them :)

16. you can't understand why so many people like this thing (characterization, trope, headcanon, etc)

ummm for Serious, portraying Pippin as Stupid. for Silly, uhhhh Trans Faramir is so real to me I completely forgot cis people both 1) exist in the real world and 2) probably interpret Fara as cis too. i don’t get it :(

17. there should be more of this type of fic/art

trans Faramir 🩵💗🤍

18. it's absolutely criminal that the fandom has been sleeping on...

HM idk. trans Faramir again. also bc I love it, utilizing Old Norse culture for the Rohirrim teehee

19. you're mad/ashamed/horrified you actually kind of like...

OK IM MAD THAT FINNISH BOROMIR IS JUST ME. THATS ME. THATS AN OUTFIT I WEAR REGULARLY MINUS THE LONG HAIR. I DRESS LIKE THAT TO BUY GROCERIES. i love him for that tho. I’m also mad that MtG Boromir’s stupid pointy muttonchops have grown on me. freak behavior, keeping his facial hair trimmed in those stupid little points

20. part of canon you found tedious or boring

I’m fighting for my life reading the histories rn 😑 I find them very dry for the most part

21. part of canon you think is overhyped

idk? I think there is an appropriate level of hype. but idk if Rings of Power had a lot of hype. if it did, then Rings of Power is my answer

22. your favorite part of canon that everyone else ignores

idk if it’s IGNORED necessarily but the fact that Boromir carries a Rohirric shield in the films does actually genuinely make me insane 💞 I love that sm

23. ship you've unwillingly come around to

UNWILLINGLY?????? idk?? ummmm I think it’s all fine for the most part I’m just A Fag so I don’t write het ships. it’s like a moral thing. Éowyn/Faramir gets a pass conceptually bc they’re T4T to me tho

24. topic that brings up the most rancid discourse

idkkkkkkk I don’t engage w discourse bc I want this fandom to remain pleasanttttt

25. common fandom complaint that you're sick of hearing

again idk.. I block on sight if I see a Bad Take + then I erase it from my memory so I can continue to live in a beautiful blissful world where I. forgor abt cis people ☺️

[mishervellous]

tagged by [muah muah smooch] @energievie, @creepkinginc and @surviving-maybe for this lil interview game! so fun!

what are some movie / tv quotes that you quote often?

this is a disney household, ESPECIALLY lilo & stitch (whenever lilo starts monologuing? those are my favorites to quote)

what is your favorite flower?

tulips 💐

if you were in avatar: the last airbender what element would you want to bend? earth, fire, water or air?

mmhh probably air? idk it is the coolest imo

what was your first job?

i worked at a fast food thingy for two months when i was 16

what is your favorite breakfast?

whole wheat apricot jam croissant and a cappuccino. this ain’t even [chef’s kiss], i’m straight up making out with the chef is SO good

what's a meal from childhood that you love?

so my grandma wasn’t really into cooking and the only thing she made for us were these very thin spaghetti with butter and parmigiano that still hit to this day

what's your favorite joke to tell?

oh boy we’re opening pandora’s box here—i’ll tell you my favorite atm which happens to be fitting for the cottage boys: two windmills are chilling in a farm, one asks the other “what’s your favorite genre of music?” and the other goes “i’m a big metal fan”

what's your favorite animal to see at the zoo?

penguins!

what's your go to quick meal to cook / make at home?

boxed mushroom risotto

what's your go to meal to cook someone to impress them?

homemade pizza and/or focaccia

what's something you want to do better?

not overthink everything

if you're working do you like your job?

currently unemployed so i’d say i love it

do you collect anything? what?

pocket knives and foreign currency

if you were trapped in a kids tv show, what show would you be okay with being trapped in?

probably babar

an adults tv show?

modern family, i feel like me and phil would get along

what kind of job did you want as a child?

interpreter

do you follow any sports? what team do you root for?

my toxic trait is that i like football (or soccer for the yankees out there), and my other toxic trait is that i root for juventus smh

if you could be any animal what would you be and why?

an unassuming snail because it takes its time

if you could be any mythological creature what would you be and why?

annoying lil leprechaun because of the mischiefs

what's the most obscure thing you've had to google for a fanfic you were writing/reading?

if people could smoke inside american hospitals in the 80s

what milkovich do you identify with most?

probably sandy, she’s cool but also mysterious

which one are you actually like the most?

probably mickey, see: paternal trauma

what gallagher do you identify with most? / which one are you actually like the most?

i’d say ian? shared experiences, head empty kinda vibes and all

tagging @y0itsbri, @grumpymickmilk, @crossmydna, @spaceofentropy, @gallavich-headcanon, @heymrspatel and @metalheadmickey 💙

[itsclydebitches]

I adore talking about this with you, it's so cool to be able to agree, everything I've read is just excusing yen lmao.

And with "geralt would rather do and say things Yen wants to avoid pissing her off" LIKE YEAHH I guess I annoyed yen with my answers and she teleported Geralt out of the tower thing, and then threatened to do it again like??? Like he pissed her off so she has fuck all care about him, was over water thank god but like girl??? omg and her refusing to tell the wticher bros what she was planning on doing to Uma, like I get that they would be hesistent but I mean it's cause it's cruel and painful and they have that trauma around that. She just expects everyone to do what she asks when she asks no questions. (Lambert's "I'm not geralt" when he and Yen are kinda arguring, bb red flags)

I just assumed she didn't believe him cause if she did whats her excuse for behaving how she is lmao??? Like you believe he has amnesia and you still blame HIM over the person who maniplated him KAY.

And goodddd that fucking scene when Triss and Yen see Ciri in Kaer Morhen is genuinely the worst, Triss and Yen see their sis/daughter (not gonna get into how weird I find it that Triss considers Ciri her sister and Geralt is Ciris father and she still wants to fuck him, uncomfy) for the first time in forever, she's alive and well and while Triss is hugging Ciri, Yen kisses Geralt and Triss throws a glare at her. I hated that scene so damn much, it's stupid and shouldn't have been there. (aso I get emotions and all but Yen kissing Geralt is so bitchy, idk even full of gratitude and emotion I wouldn't kiss the man who just dumped me lol, especially not in front of a situation like Triss)

I'm still mad about the women, I really wanted to like them fuck meeee

YOU GOT TO THE PART. Oh thank god, anon, I've wanted to talk about this since we started these conversations lol

Okay, let's set the scene, shall we? You arrive to find that, with our playthroughs anyway, your ex has barged into your home. I say "barged in" because although we (Geralt) know that Yen's help is necessary and she'll be tagging along, the other witchers living there are given no prior warning and, according to Vesemir, Yen teleported in without so much as a "Hello." She then immediately starts ordering everyone around like her servants, failing to explain the situation beyond there being a curse that they have to help with. No, this isn't negotiable. She (still being an ex) takes your old room for herself, which just happens to be the biggest in the keep, and proceeds to toss a bed out the window. It's only later that Vesemir recalls that Triss used to use it, so prior to that everyone apparently just accepted that Yen was destroying their stuff for no understandable reason. Classic Yen. You go upstairs to find her cursing a blue streak at her failed experiment and when you try to lighten the mood, she snaps at you. If you're of the opinion that Yen's every order must be obeyed, this is when you're supposed to drop the conversation entirely, because she said to. Except, funnily enough, you'd like to know why she's up here being The Worst Guest Ever and destroying your property. She tries to justify this by saying that destroying a bed is better than how she could be dealing with her anger over Triss. Be grateful and all that. Except, it's not really about Triss, is it? The line is "You shagged my friend. For upwards of a year. I don't know what your witcher's code says on the matter, but ordinary folk would consider it obscene, base, vile." The blame is not on the woman who knowingly manipulated Geralt into having sex with her while he was vulnerable, it's on Geralt himself! He is the "obscene, base, vile" person for... daring to have amnesia? And when you point that out - "Yen... told you already. I lost my memory" - she yells that she's "lost [her] patience" and teleports you into a lake! This is, apparently, how she really wants to deal with her anger. Not by destroying beds, but by attacking you for things outside of your control. And I do consider it an attack. Yen is meant to be insanely powerful, she is leveraging her magic as a weapon here, particularly when Geralt has spent the whole game commenting on how much he hates portals. Yen knows this. Not just because he says so in her presence, but because she frequently reads his mind, something else he's expressed discomfort with. She's not just demonstrating her power (controlling) and sending him away when he makes a point she doesn't want to acknowledge (immature), she chooses the one thing she knows makes Geralt uncomfortable, perhaps even scared. Then when you've swum your way back to shore and returned to, despite all this, begin her list of chores, she makes a dry comment about how next time she just might drop you high enough for the fall to be fatal. With the next time implied to be, you know, the next time you disagree with her. The next time you dare to do anything other than agree with her every belief and jump at her every command.

The fandom interpretation of all this: "Lol Geralt getting yeeted is so funny. And their banter is just 😍"

Me:

You mentioned red flags and yeah like that ENTIRE SCENE is a crimson banner for me. I mean, by all means, love the fictional ships that are super messed up (I often do), but it astounds me how many fans honestly think this is just a cute interaction with absolutely no problems attached. Nothing to question here, folks. I've mentioned before, but last I discussed this in depth the asker wanted to know if I'd been an asshole to Yen and... that's it. That's the perspective. Any disagreement with her, any pushback, anything that's not complete, blind obedience is something she will not permit AND something most fans take as a given. If you're not doing what Yen tells you to, you're automatically the asshole, and if you're the asshole, you automatically deserve any punishment she chooses to dish out.

Comic spoilers coming up if you want to skip, but this is made abundantly clear in "Curse of Crows." Yen and Geralt are at their best in the moment below, enjoying one another's company on a nice day. Yen asks if Geralt wants to swim and he says nah, he'd rather watch her. She appears to like that idea and, indeed, swims naked while Geralt admires from the shore.

Actually cute right? I really liked this moment! They're cuddled up together and exchanging smiles. It's a rare moment of peace where I can believe that they truly care for one another, outside of passionate sex and not wanting the other dead. Finally, something beyond that incredibly low bar.

...except Yen starts flirting with a young man who shows up, invites him to travel with them, all while refusing to explain why she's interested in his company. The sudden third wheel is clearly bothering Geralt, but Yen continues to ignore his questioning. The answer she finally gives later that night?

She did it purely to mess with Geralt! It's his "just desserts" for "refusing to swim with [her]." She is "not one to be refused - I thought you needed reminding" by giving him "a flick on the nose." When I say that Yen treats Geralt like a dog I mean she literally treats him like a dog. He's a servant who must jump at her every command and if he doesn't, he'll punished for disobedience. He might not even know why he's being punished for a long stretch because Yen enjoys making him think she's a normal person capable of accepting that he doesn't feel like swimming right now - insert the Kaer Morhen scene where she wants to go have sex upstairs, but Geralt wants to catch up with the brothers he hasn't seen in an age here - only to reveal that actually she's made their formerly nice outing uncomfortable because he needs to be put in his place. All of which is followed by, "So... willing to join me now?" The message is very clear! Geralt had better get his ass in that tub unless he wants to be punished some more. Whether he wants a bath right now or not is inconsequential.

This is also the run where she scares the women Geralt was with, despite them being separated right now. Why? "I could."

Claims that Geralt is allowed to return to his companions (who he actually waves away) only for him to realize she's cast a spell to burn him with the water. Yen loves pretending she's okay with things only to punish Geralt for them later - sometimes with physical punishments. And what would have happened if the women had actually joined him again? Do witchers weather hot water better than the average courtesan? Who knows, but Yen clearly doesn't care who might get hurt.

Just like her time in Skellige and at Kaer Morhen, she refuses to explain what's going on. She just expects people to obey her, so-called loved ones included. Geralt was to get her cider, and arrive before her bath went cold, not question what they're doing on this dangerous hunt. He's a servant.

And my favorite, petty moment: transforming her awful inn food into a lavish meal without offering to do the same for either Geralt or Ciri.

"But, Clyde, that's just the comics. They're not really canon." Nah, questions of canon aside, this is 100% Yen's characterization. She's prideful. Immature. Beyond controlling. And punishes anyone who dares to tell her "No." Fans are always pointing out that she's meant to be horrible, she could have been a villain in another life, like any of that explains why I'm supposed to root for this relationship or enjoy her existence outside of being a complex character. Yen is interesting, but she's interesting in a "I can't wait to see her get her own just desserts" way. Not "Wooo now I get to watch this story ignore her behavior again to push a True Love narrative."

She punished Geralt frequently during their first meeting, she punishes him whenever they get together, and, I think, she punished him during the reunion with Ciri. Given our playthroughs, do we really think that after breaking up with her and all this fury over Triss - an anger so deep she destroyed the bed and attacked Geralt - she's just overcome with such joy that she forgets they're not together anymore and forgets the anger she's been nurturing for years? Yen doesn't forget. She's staring at Ciri during that moment, right where Triss is currently running towards them, and then after a considering look at Geralt pulls him in for that kiss. That was calculated. She did that to make a claim she no longer had. To punish them both: make Triss uncomfortable by playing at the "perfect" family reunion; make Geralt uncomfortable by kissing him when she knows he doesn't feel the same way. But of course, the popular reading is that she just loves him so much she couldn't help herself. Riiight.

It's just all SO BAD. (Including, as you say, the ickiness of having Triss lusting after Geralt and referring to Ciri as "little sis.") I love a lot of the women in Witcher - Cerys is a fave, Ciri, Saskia, Philippa, Keira, etc. - but the two I'm supposedly meant to fall in love with are just the worst lol.

Basically:

Half the fandom: TEAM TRISS 🤬

The other half: TEAM YEN🤬

Me: TEAM REGIS 😭

[hanzajesthanza]

I've been laughing way too long at how you perfectly Mike Wazowski'ed Angouleme in that screenshot 😂😂 (due to me as well. Gotta get that height difference! P.S. I do want to just also say here that I'm so grateful to have book fans sticking together in this trying time, and thanks for everything you do!)

AAAAHAHAHAHA im actually laughing out loud i didn’t even realize my screen ratio did that to her until you pointed it out 😂😂😂 ah, angoulême going to the company, pointing at the screenshot on her phone, “we’re the first post in the witcher tag!” everyone else notices she was cut off, saying “oh” and giving sympathetic smiles, but she doesn’t mind and is just overjoyed “i’ve never been top post before…” … punches dandelion on the arm a friendly way, to which he goes “ow…” and looks aside at milva like “why did you teach her that…”

and i love the the height difference amongst friends you gave the hansa… everyone’s height is how i headcanon them, so i’m biased… angoulême is just a short queen. short countess? 🥲 it’s funny to imagine this short skinny girl strutting around the company like she owns it now, riding around on draakul who she stole from regis and calling them all uncles and auntie much to their annoyance

i imagine that when geralt couldn’t stop himself from seeing similarities between her and ciri, and saved her from prefect artevelde, once she was brought out of the cell led by guards and given to his custody, geralt kind of, out of reflex, looked her up and down like “where’s the rest of her?” since ciri is tall and slim… even at 14, when she last saw geralt, she was an inch taller than angoulême is currently at 19 😭

i also imagine in a scenario where regis and angoulême have to hide (idk they are exploring or eavesdropping), regis ✨simply vanishes into thin air✨ in his otherworldly manner … and angoulême just crouches down a little, mundanely and unhurriedly arching her shoulders

and yes of COURSE!!! i’m so glad i made the decision to make a sideblog for twn (and cdpr 😏 sometimes) hate, so i can have this space as my main blog and post about the books in a twn-free space. i hope - and i’m that that, because it seems the case - people can use this blog to connect with book content in these difficult times. i think it’s important to be able to remember that shitty “imitative works” (i won’t call it an adaptation or inspired work) come and go, but even as terrible as they might get, the books still exist and always have more to offer, details to glean, ways to interpret — and what’s more, is that the witcher books community is so talented and passionate, we have more talent in our collective pinky finger than the entire writing team of twn has in their bodies combined. and i think at some level, the books do attract a crowd of people who want to engage in material that has a deeper meaning and care about the messages & themes from the media they surround themselves with. who care about the family, the trauma, the war… the healing… all of the things which make it meaningful… and on this note, same to you my friend, because your book art has given me life and hope 🥺❤️

[grizztheexplorer]

Ah. There’s a whole carnivores vs herbivores discussion going on with Beastars fans and lmao it really misses the point to want to put the spotlight on one as the bad one. Like…. It misses the point of the whole manga😭 a lot of people have only watched the anime though, so I see maybe why. The anime has only covered essentially the first major arc, nothing else. Only the school life, which is very different from what we see later on in the real world amongst citizens.

I think people also need to take in mind Beastars is a metaphor that went one way and then the other, so ir doesn’t work as a clear metaphor for any minority group, whether thats gender, sexuality, or race. So saying one group is like a real group in the world doesn’t work because both carnivores and herbivores can be nasty people. And we haven’t even covered mixed kids on the anime ajdjjdjdjdj. The metaphors work if you cover a specific situation, but not as the whole group. Idk if that was done on purpose or if the writer missed the mark, but it is done that way. Both groups have really nasty characters with really nasty believes. Legosi’s whole family is a great example of what the world did with carnivores (like his mom, rip that woman).

Riz is also a really complex character, and that is seen also beyond his arc. But he is also problematic lmao idk why people are mad others dislike him and find him problematic. He is. Which is why he is a good character, he is complex, not a one dimensional bad guy. But nonetheless still problematic, y’all can’t just ignore that. And you can’t force people to like him either. What he did was super fucked up, and it really doesn’t represent how carnivores in general behave either. I see both arguments being like “but he had to go thro this poor carnivores” and that us wrong. Same with “and he did this carnivores behave like that” which is also wrong😭 Riz was a very specific character with specific beliefs made up by his specific circumstances. Him as an argument to go with or against carnivores really doesn’t work. Then again, him and other teens that are also trying to understand the world around them are all we know from the anime. We haven’t seen adults and the way the systems in society are fully set up yet. So i get it, is just annoying to see ajdjdjd.

Beastars fandom has always been murky but my god people who only have extended knowledge of the anime are really at each other’s throats and no one is seeing the full picture, or they are trying to stick with metaphors of the real world that don’t really work. Idk if that makes the writing bad bc they failed with metaphors, or good because that was never quite their intention to begin with. Up to interpretation i guess.

Also many parts of what ended up being my fave from the manga were either cut or haven’t bern animated yet, so im a lil bored with the anime sjdjdjd but i’ll give it my views on Netflix if only bc I really want to see that last arc animated and see my lizard grandpa’s story shown. And Haru’s family meet Legosi. And to see Louis’ weird leg connection with Legosi shown too. Lots of cute moments I wanna see animated so they better get more seasons😭

Prob won’t go through the tag bc i feel like a lot of people are arguing for one side or the other and missing the point by miles (which when the manga was coming up and the anime was on hiatus I didn’t see as much). So i’m just gonna stick with Gosha content bc he owns my heart and continue with my day knowing things work out for all the characters I care for anyways shdjdjjdjd

[angstbabyjae]

DSMP Tier List

This tier list was shared in a discord server I’m in, so I thought I’d give it a go. Not entirely satisfied with the section titles, so I used them quite liberally. I will explain why I put people where I did. On the tier itself I didn’t order them by preference but in my explanation I will. Please not that they will be ranked from favorite to least favorite per category (for example: I put Sapnap technically above Niki despite liking her character more) and not by how much they deserve to be in each category (for example: I prefer Technoblade to Phil but I believe people excuse Technoblade’s actions more than Phil’s). I encourage healthy suggestion in the comments since I only joined the fandom around the Green Festival and haven’t seen the history/POV’s of every character, though I try. Enjoy.

Gonna slap on a big ol’ “/rp” here just to be safe.

You've done nothing wrong come here (holds you gently)

So the thing about this section is that I don't believe any dream smp character is completely innocent, so I used this section more like a top of tier than as it's title implies.

1. TommyInnit

Ngl, Tommy is my favorite character in the Dream SMP. As a fellow Loud Person I relate to him a lot and his feelings that nobody really likes him. His mental health struggles are close to my heart and (SPOILERS) his death just made me so devastated. I really hope they don't end his arc like this. Not when he was just starting to heal, please. Tommy has certainly done a lot of things wrong. I'd highly recommend watching the exile decision from both Tubbo and Tommy's POV's because you can really get a grasp of their mindsets. Despite this, he is my fave.

2. Ranboo

Until recently I preferred Tubbo to Ranboo, but cc!Ranboo just totally outdid himself on lore and acting to the point where I couldn't deny it anymore. Ranboo did do *some* things wrong, but they are less extreme than many on this list (I don't count things he might have done under Dream's control since he wasn't conscious). Ranboo's character makes me go into protecc mode. So yeah, very good enderboi.

3. Tubbo_

Tubbo doesn't have much lore for his character, but like I do with many others on this list, I like to overanalyze and interpret certain characters to be deeper than they are. The Tubbo I have in my head is a lot more complex than what cc!Tubbo probably meant to portray. There is so much angst potential with his character, similar to many others, but what puts him top tier for me is the emotional connection I have to his character and how I relate to getting so much put on my shoulders and having to make tough decisions.

you're an amazing character

Okay so technically Schlatt should be on this list if we are speaking from a narrative standpoint, but seeing as the way OP labelled the other sections on this chart I'm guessing they meant morally as well.

4. Alex Quackity

Quackity is my favorite adult character. I don't even know why, I just love the idea of this comic relief character becoming such a catalyst for plot and more serious as time goes on. I love taking the dream smp characters and making them deeper than they probably are, as I do with Tubbo, but now it seems cc!Quackity is fully taking his character to the height of his potential and I can't wait to see what he does with him next.

5. AweSamDude

(SPOILERS) As such a big Tommy fan I must admit, my first thought when Tommy died was that Sam was partly responsible. If Dream told him what he did to Tommy in exile like he claims then he would have at least put up the obsidian barrier between them or something. After watching Ranboo's most recent stream (right now it's March 3rd) I understand why Sam did what he did more. My initial anger towards him has dissipated a bit. I still love his character so much. He really did care about Tommy and now... dang. I can't wait to see what happens with him next.

6. Captain Puffy

It was very close between ranking her or Sam higher, but given all the in depth character stuff we're getting from Sam right now, I'd have to rank him above. Despite this, Puffy is a character that I started out not knowing anything about and am now feeling her climb the ranks in my books. Sometimes I feel like she's the only adult who actually put Tommy's well-being above other things, despite them not interacting often. I wasn't around for the whole "duckling" thing with Dream and have yet to watch the VODs, but I just want her to visit him now and punish him for the Tommy stuff. (SPOILERS) I can feel Dream's next ploy being trying to convince someone to let him out in exchange for bringing back Tommy and if Sam doesn't cave then Puffy probably will. Also, I really hope that her and Niki's relationship isn't forgotten. There's so much angst potential there. Also, I need sapphics to survive.

7. Eret

So, I wasn't a fan of the SMP during season one. I hadn't even heard of it except for like my friend referencing Technoblade now and then. After watching some VODs of Eret's I am slowly starting to fall in love with her characterization. I am so soft for their redemption arc, for the regret he feels. Now that cc!Eret is back from their mental health break I am so ready for more.

8. Fundy

Fundy's a character that I will forget how much I love until he goes live again, or until I reread his old quotes. He has a lot of lore to him that surprises you every time you remember. Whether its his last speech to Schlatt to COCONUT 2020, Fundy always gives the audience something more to think about.

9. "Ghostbur"

Ghostbur is one of the few characters who genuinely make me want to cry. cc!Wilbur's performance was both hilarious and immaculate. I really want to find out more about his lore, though. Do all dead people with unfinished business get an alternate version of themselves to roam the Earth while you stay in the afterlife unable to make contact unless the veil is thin? Was Ghostbur just Wilbur pretending the whole time? (SPOILERS) Is Tommy going to get one? Is Glatt canon? Much to think about.

10. BadBoyHalo

While I despise egg-possessed BBH, normal BBH has my entire heart. The fact he gave up his mind for Skeppy is *chef's kiss*. I am very impressed with everything cc!BBH is writing right now.

11. Karl Jacobs

My second favorite polyamorous dimension hopper after Star Butterfly (let me have Startomco please)! TFTSMP just gets better and better each week. His time travel shenanigans are so fun and mysterious. Karlnapity is just a big ol' pot of angst just waiting to happen. WEDDING SOON PLEASE!

no intense opinion

While I do have opinions on some of these characters, they aren't intense enough to place them anywhere else.

12. Ponk

I don't watch him all that often since he's live during my school time, but what I've seen I love. Him starting that whole side plot expanding on that one TFTSMP episode intrigues me and I can see it tying into the egg somehow. Him and Sam are really cute together (/rp) and I want him to become more plot relevant again.

13. Antfrost

GAY CAT GAY CAT GAY CAT! In all seriousness, I really want him to do stuff with his character to make him more than just BBH's second-in-command (I have similar feelings with Skeppy, but I know he isn't very big on lore). Side note, but I really love the hc that RedVelvetCake is inside the egg. I want him to join so bad.

14. Purpled

I've only just started watching the actual clips from pre-L'Manberg times and Purpled was once much more plot involved than I thought. Him planning on getting his revenge on Tommy at the same time as the "police" investigating the Camarvan back in early season one was comedy gold. Shout out to BlueberryTV on YouTube for making it so easy to watch. In conclusion, we stan an underage mercenary.

15. GeorgeNotFound

Idk if this is a hot take or not, but I feel a good portion of people who love George's character are just DNF shippers who want to turn his crumbs into an angst factory, but you know what? Valid. While I am not a DNF shipper, I have seen the angst y'all have brought to the table and very much appreciate it.

16. ConnorEatsPants

The most I think I've seen of Connor has been the hostage scene and the non-canon party scene from this season. I don't have much to say except that his small speech to Tommy after he was let go about him not being a bad person despite traumatizing him hit surprisingly hard in the feels.

17. Skeppy

cc!Skeppy is not a big roleplayer, and I get that, it's just sometimes his character feels a little like an accessory to Bad's character. Please link me some good Skeppy moments in the comments if you can, I want to try and learn more about his character. His angst with Bad right now is top tier, though, and I choose to believe that Big Daddy Island is canon and that Bad took him there to keep him free from the egg. I actually wrote a fic about this if you want to check it out! Mind the tags, though, I went a little macabre with it.

18. HBomb

When I first learned about the SMP it was two nights before the green festival and I was up until 3am at my aunt's house reading the plot summary. The first clip of the smp I saw was the election VOD, where HBomb joined for the first time. I don't know much about him other than the fact he was Fundy's maid for a time and it was absolutely hilarious. I saw the recent stuff with him leaving Greater SMP to start over and enjoyed it. Hope we get more stuff like that with him.

19. Callahan

Gets all the ladies. What else can I say?

you're trying your best and I respect that

20. Sapnap

I put Sapnap here because he's on his way to becoming an amazing character. The angst stuff with Dream is the stuff George fans can only dream of (pun unintended). I like how he went from the cop, the pet killer, Dream's right hand man, to mushroom cottegecore gay living his best life and dealing with the pain of losing his best friend. The whole "Dream's bitch" conversation with Tommy that I saw an animatic for some time ago made me hurt so good. Also #KarlnapityWedding2021.

you're redeemable, thin fucking ice though

These are characters who I somewhat dislike to a degree, but still have hope for. In my opinion this section should be switched with the one after it in terms of which is worse, but oh well.

21. Wilbur Soot

I know he's already dead but if he's brought back to life I want a redemption arc from him back. (SPOILERS) If neither him nor Tommy come back to life then dsmp has a horrible track record with killing off their mentally ill and (tw) suicidal characters. Wilbur has done some awful things, but if he's brought back I don't think he'd be beyond saving.

22. Jack Manifold

I need to say something about Jack. He is so very very close to being in the "you're trying your best" section right now after his most recent stream. His redemption arc is so close I can taste it and if he is redeemed right I can see him joining my faves. His most recent stream was just so well acted that my heart just wants to forgive him already... until my brain remembers he tried to nuke a child. Don’t know if this is also a hot take, but I think he had more of a right to be mad at Tommy than Niki did, but I know for Niki it's more complicated than that.

23. Niki Nihachu

There was a time that I adored Niki Nihachu and a part of me still does, but she has gone a little bit off the deep end. I do understand it's a trauma response, though. cc!Niki said that her villain arc is almost over, which disappointed me a bit because we kinda barely got to see it since it was so overshadowed, but I am also relieved. I just want my wlw baker back :(

people excuse your actions more than you deserve

I am just going to pretend that this section doesn't say "love". I still like these characters a lot even though they get away with a lot of shit.

24. Technoblade

I love Technoblade too much for him to be ranked this low, but like I said this ranking is based on fitting the section descriptions, not how much I love them. Technoblade's POV is understandable but also that doesn't excuse the pain he's caused so many people. L'Manberg was more than it's a government as much as Techno is more than a weapon.

25. Philza Minecraft

Philza deserves to be in this section a little less than Technoblade because I actually agree with a lot of what Philza fans say. Tommy is not Philza's kid. Phil has a lot of trauma around killing Wilbur, yes. I just don't see how you could watch Ghostbur's Friend speech during Doomsday and think he was in the right for doing it.

i don't like you

26. JSchlatt

JSchlatt is an amazing character in many ways. The acting? Glorious. The dialogue? Spot on. With that being said, YAYY HE'S DEAD!!! I really like leaning into the abusive relationship hc with him and his cabinet. He was probably the most fun villain we've ever had, though.

I WANT THIS MOTHER FUCKER DEAD

27. DreamWasTaken

Come on, do I even have to explain?

[redxblueihateloveyou]

definitely not me laughing at people just now realizing how dumb this fandom is watching this unravel with a popcorn. 

sad thing is.. with this low level of braincells I think someone will actually do this and then its gonna be the first time, when the fandom stupidity will lead to a real life consequences, but hell, maybe this will teach someone something idk.

definitely not me laughing at one of the directors saying that I know everyone is on R and L, but I hope you’ll focus on the relationships of the adults in this anime, cause they’re much more complicated xD I fell.

definitely me crying at the fact that ppl these days don’t even get what the creators are trying to say with their creation and twisting it to the unholy level. like I understand that everything is up to the interpretation, but it’s like if 90% of the readers would’ve interpret that “Pride and Prejudice” is a story about a poor misunderstood Wickham, abused by Darcy bc the ugly asshole didn’t get that the poor man needed help with his compalsive gambling disorder lmao

just being in the literature/movies analyses since forever, I find it absolutely fascinating how when it comes to books and movies 90% of ppl usually get okay, what the creator was trying to convey, at least like even some do not get the depth, they at least get the main message and don’t twist it to this extent, but when it comes to anime, it’s not the first time I’m watching something, make my own assumptions, then happily go to read fandom posts and surprisingly find that most of them are like a complete opposite AND mocking these tiny bunch, who have the perfectly adequate point of view. first time it happened I was like “am I dumb or smth”, but then the creators speak up and I’m like “ah so I did understand the message correctly”. it’s just most of the viewers didn’t. 

it’s like when I saw those messages about how many think that Seirin are the main characters/team of KNB and Haru and Makoto is what Free! revolves around. I was like “how... did.. u even come to this conclusion if we watched the same thing?” and it’s not like those fans are even trying to present it as “this is just an extraordinary opinion of mine”, no, they’re sincerely going at it on the social media as “that’s what the creator was trying to say” and I’m like “no, I’m like 99% sure he didn’t try to say that” lmao and then surprise surprise... guess who’s right. 

the only question is why really. is it bc the young generation is a huge part of anime fandoms and bc they don’t want to read anymore and thus can’t develop the basic skills of character analysis? 

and before you yell at me, my mom is a school teacher and yeah, they don’t want your books anymore (I still won’t say all, but like HE MAJORITY for sure) and once during the pandemic they asked me to substitute their english online class and I asked them about their favorite fiction characters (bc I legit thought it was a the easiest way to bond and talk) and one said Thanos (...), one said Harry Potter, but when I asked “why”, thinking to hear smth like bc he’s brave or a great friend or smth, what I heard was “he does magic” I was like “well, everyone does magic there, why else”, and you’re in the 4th grade you dumb fuck (lmao that’s not, I didn’t say that xD), the third one said “Charlie from the chocolate factory” and when I asked why is that, he said “bc it’s sweet and tasty” and then I just wanted to shoot myself, cause I didn’t know already what to say... is the movie tasty? we were talking about characters tho? I was reading Jules Verne at your age and I’m not even that old, I’m 25. 

then I remember, that most of them are on twitter/tiktok/youtube, etc. and get scared and then I read some comments on MAL or smth and get even more scared. and look at the fucking ratings, I’m in shock (istg if *** score reaches the mdzs or natsume’s level, the world is officially dumb af).

anyways, back to the point. not notice the character/main conflict that drives the whole plot is truly sensational really. like that’s a whole new level of dumbness. I mean, I thought I’ve seen everything since Free! and Voltron shananigans, but heck I was so wrong. also I’d help with the good roasting, cause I’m real good at it, when needed, but I’m just not really invested enough to get into the middle of this, cause so far I don’t find the characters, who are worthy of such effort (and I think I won’t haha). but thanks for sending me this, it was satisfying to see, that at least the VAs and creators are great and that the fandom got to expose their stupidity. 

bc I was just DMing @heavensweetheart​ how I’ve lost my faith in humanity and then someone is like “did you see this tweet?” and I’m like “no, no, and I don’t wanna pls” and then my sister is like “I’ve this AOT fact video...” and @tododeku-or-bust​ is like “you wanna hear smth form the JC part of the mdzs fandom” and I’m like “I know it’s a free contry, but there’s no way this is legal” lmao. so I’m really thankful that there are still people surrounding me, who understand that this is in fact laughable, that such things even exist. like I’m not happy to find out that those exist, but at least it’s soothing that I have someone I can vent my frustration with, cause sometimes you just need someone to be like “yeah, you’re not wrong, this is in fact dumb and you’re definitely not in the wrong, even when the majority says you are.” and I finally understand what Wei Wuxain was feeling trying to go against of a horde of absolute hypocrites.

also like someone pls make a law, when you can’t enter a fandom if your IQ is less than 3, cause going to some fandom tags is like:

and this fandom is offically became “I’m embarrased to be a part of it” one. and “is it even worth it?” lmao. like I’ll still wait for the last 2 episodes, but I think the answer is actually a “no”. bc if you’re sane, it’s gonna be painful af to read the things the majority of this fandom say, that’s all. and my god, it can piss you off, even when you’re like “I’ve been there before, it okay”, cause it’s damn hard, when you just have a very low tolerance for bullshit.

[junhaoshua]

HOME;RUN - an analysis

So our boys SLAYED in this comeback and I am in love with the concept so much!! Seventeen in suits gets my heart fluttering ~

After watching the MV a couple of times (and being in awe of how good it is), this theory occurred to me:

The diamond represents stardom and CARATS; the MV is all about SEVENTEEN’s journey as idols and their relationship with CARATS.

A scene-by-scene analysis of the MV under the cut!

(and the awesome header above is by @soonhoonsol​ who is incredibly talented and came up with this masterpiece in less than an hour!)

I’m going to put this disclaimer up front: these are just my theories and other interpretations are totally valid. I love all thirteen boys, and I think they have really good relationships with each other! So if I bring up past incidents or controversies, it’s from a place of love. I’m not trying to stir drama or criticize them. This essay is a love letter to them because I personally find the MV so meaningful. Also, I’ve been a Carat less than a year (this is my second comeback, fourth comeback if you count Japan releases) so please tell me if I’ve made mistakes ~

S.Coups and the baseball

When the MV starts, Seungcheol’s hit a wall, literally. (Additional symbolism regarding the wall to come later.)

Why? If you think back to the start of Coups’ career, he was training with NU’EST but he didn’t get to debut with them; he hit a wall at the start when it came to debut. Then, the diamond hits him: Seventeen comes along (and with that, Carats) and it changes his life, launching him to the public eye and stardom.

But at the same time, the diamond hits him on the head and knocks him out for a while, and this is kinda symbolic of his hiatus last year. He took a break because of his anxiety; anxiety caused by knowing how much the fans love him, and not wanting to let them down. The impact of idol life made him feel so pressured that he needed to take a step back.

But! At the end, Coups picks up the diamond again; he’s ready to resume his journey, and perform for Carats!!

Mingyu, Wonwoo, and Seokmin at the bar

The scene cuts from Coups to the boys at the bar, and I can think of a few reasons for the choices!

Firstly, Mingyu. Gyu’s the one who gave the shoutout to Coups during their daesang acceptance speech while he was on his hiatus. That was a huge moment in their careers - recognition not just from their diamond fans, but also from the general public.

Secondly, Wonwoo. He’s had his own struggles with anxiety and not feeling good enough too, and he’s shared before that he wonders what he has to make fans love him. (Also, I love the Wonwoo-Coups gamer-bro bond ~)

Then we have DK, and I feel like the choice of DK here is because he’s a leader too, even if we forget that often. Back when it was announced DK would be leading BSS, he cited Coups as his inspiration for being a good leader; he’s watching Coups’ example.

(I’m not totally certain about the symbolism here though, so feel free to chime in!)

Hoshi, Jun, and Dino’s dance

Our performance unit leader’s the one who first appears and starts dancing; he’s the choreographer, and the one that the members look to when performing!

(Other than that, I don’t think there’s a lot of deep symbolism; it’s just a fun dance break lol. The dance breaks are all just cool choreo moments ~)

Vernon and the gambling den

This scene basically focuses on Hansol, who’s just chilling and vibing while everyone else is fighting.

The background of this set is some sort of gambling den, and we see chips and cards flying around. What do people associate with gambling? Money. Think back to the early days of Vernon’s career; he was involved in Show Me The Money, and it caused a ton of controversy and undeserved hate.

Yet, in the midst of all this chaos, Hansol’s just rapping and vibing, because our boy rose above all the hate that was directed at him to become an amazing rapper!! Also he’s just so chill all the time and we love him for it ~ that’s how he gets hold of the diamond in the midst of this chaos!!!

(also, he passes it to Minghao. Why does he pass it to Hao? idk can’t really explain. Any ideas?)

The8 and Joshua in the car

For this scene, we switch to black and white, which kinda shows that there’s a certain nostalgia here.

Minghao’s holding the diamond and looking at it carefully, with a certain distance. As we all know, Hao’s someone who’s very realistic; he reminds us of the distance between idols and fans, and doesn’t do any of the flirty playing around. But it doesn’t mean that he loves and treasures us less! It’s because he cares about Carats that he wants us to remember to lead our own lives and focus on ourselves too ~

Meanwhile, Shua’s driving the car. Why the deliberate choice of Hao and Shua? They’re the ones who had to travel to get that diamond; they left their homes to come to Korea to become stars and in doing so, earn the fans’ love. It’s been a long, hard road, and I respect them so much for taking it.

(What about Jun and Hansol? I’m sure some of you will ask. Hansol isn’t really foreign line; he was born and raised in Korea, there wasn’t any travelling. As for Jun, he was a highly-acclaimed child star with his own fans and career before he travelled to Korea to become a part of Seventeen, so he wasn't really chasing stardom.)

Dino and Wonwoo on the train

After the theatre dance break, our maknae gets on that train and promptly starts searching everywhere for the diamond. 

Why? In my opinion, Chan’s criminally underappreciated in the fandom; he’s so so incredible (just look at his rap + visuals here!), but he just doesn’t get enough love from the fans; that’s why he’s trying so hard to get that diamond! (also, give Dino more respect yall, he deserves it)

Wonwoo’s also searching for the diamond. Remember the analysis earlier: he doesn’t think that he has much presence or charisma to attract fans. He’s looking for the love and fans too.

Mingyu and Jeonghan on the train

Two things to note before we break down the scene: they’re probably the ones with the diamond at the start of this scene (since they’re the thieves in the newspaper), but by the next scene, they’ve somehow lost the diamond to Wonwoo.

Firstly, we see that Gyu and Hannie both cover their faces. They’re largely considered to be two of the best visuals in the group. I believe this represents a fear of theirs; that without their looks, they’ll lose the fans’ love.

Secondly, they run away from the train (likely leaving the diamond behind). Both Jeonghan and Mingyu have taken time away from the public eye lately. Hannie suffered from dizziness because he pushed himself so hard to perform for us, not wanting to disappoint Carats, until his body forced him to take a break. Gyu basically disappeared from view during the Itaewon controversy and all the hate he was getting. Thus, them running away from the train symbolises them taking a break from the idol life.

Wonwoo and Minghao examining the diamond

Wonwoo has the diamond now, and he’s got it under a magnifying glass and he’s examining it closely. 

The magnifying glass gives you the chance to see something’s flaws. With the recent Curry incident, Wonwoo’s seen the ugly side of stardom (personal take: yes he messed up, but I do think it was an honest mistake, please no discourse in the comments). He looks at it, he sees the flaws, and he puts it down; he’s examined it for flaws and he needs to take some time away from being an idol (see: him basically going off the radar for a while there).

Why does Minghao grab the diamond and run off with it? A ton of things happened to SVT in recent months, which are largely referenced in chronological order: Coups’ hiatus > Jeonghan’s hiatus > Itaewon incident > Curry incident > The Tag and Minghao getting a ton of attention.

Hao really shone so much in The Tag for his cool attitude; he got talked about everywhere, GoSe views shot up, and new Carats were converted! (The attention on Hao also helped the controversies to start dying down, because the news had something new and interesting to talk about.) Beyond GoSe, Hao's just been getting a ton of attention lately - Falling Down, more screen time, and more lines! (I've been so bias wrecked by him it's not even funny.) He really be running off with the diamond and all the love from the fandom that he deserves ~

(personally, I really hope that The Tag will be the start of a nice, peaceful period, with lots of love and no incidents for our diamond boys ~)

Seungkwan and the pool table

After a fun bowling alley dance break, the diamond lands on the pool table and people start fighting over it before Seungkwan gets fed up and throws the diamond at the camera.

The moment I saw this scene, I was reminded of the fight in OFD (aka probably the only time SVT has really, actually fought onscreen). The thing about shows is that so much is done for “entertainment”. In the media industry, there’s a need to create drama to keep viewers watching and people interested. It’s an ugly, toxic part of stardom. I really, really hated that part of OFD; how hard the PDs pushed the boys to keep things entertaining, causing the hyper-competitive spirit and all the drama, was just too much for me.

But in OFD, Seungkwan worked really hard to reconcile the two teams, and to me that’s Seungkwan. He’s the one who’s good at variety and a drama queen, but he cares about the others so much. He’s not going to let stardom and the need to be entertaining actually, really affect their relationships. If the need to put on a show for the camera is creating conflict? Break the camera.

(also, pay attention to the newspaper at the end of this segment: the diamond is literally named the Carat Star - doesn’t it make sense that it symbolises CARATs and stardom?)

Jun, Woozi, and the brick wall

We’re back where the MV started at the brick wall, which I believe to be the brick wall from the L&R MV.

Jun just sees the diamond and… stops and blinks. Honestly the expression on his face is peak comedy right there and I feel like that’s so Jun. Thoughtful, quiet (at least on camera), observant, and just… intensely and effortlessly funny?! I’ve always felt that he’s someone who’s so incredibly gifted - visuals, vocals, dance - and he needs more love ~ (oops my ult bias is showing)

On the other hand, Woozi goes up there, grabs his bat, and breaks the glass to get the diamond. This has a couple of interpretations for me. As Seventeen’s producer, Woozi’s the one taking charge of their music; so much of their success from the start is because of his production (not forgetting Hoshi’s choreo, Vernon’s writing, Coups’ leadership, and the overall OT13!) He really takes charge of their musical sound, which has been so important in their rise to stardom and getting CARATs to slip into the diamond life.

Also, remember how I said we’re at the L&R wall? Heng:garae was Seventeen’s most successful comeback to date, and they shattered a ton of their previous records, just like Jihoon’s out here breaking the glass!

OT13 and Forever Diamond

In the last scene, we get a huge OT13 dance with fireworks and the words “Forever Diamond” in the background.

This scene actually made me cry the first time I saw it. The words made me think of that Weverse post that got Hoshi crying: even if one day Seventeen isn’t performing any more, they’ll still have been a part of our lives, and we’ll hear their names and remember that they were a part of our lives that brought us joy. The members have often talked about how much they all mean to each other, and how they hope that their relationship can last forever (see: HTR and also the Going 70 segment of Caratland). They’ve also expressed their hope that we’ll continue to love them for a long time. (dang why the heck am I crying while typing this)

“Forever Diamond” encapsulates the relationship that SEVENTEEN and CARATs have so well: they’re our diamond boys, and we’ve slipped into the diamond life. We’re both each other’s forever diamonds. 

To the last say the name, and beyond!

Tagging: @hyeri-yah​ and @leannehuang​ bc the two of you liked hearing the initial draft of this long theory ~

[iguessyouregonnamissthepantyraid]

You could get a lot of dabihawks fans to read something with endeavor that's not going to be the issue. This-- "save someone they all care very much about but who they all know might be beyond saving?" this mindset is going to be the problem. Dabi has done many crimes he needs to face up to but viewing him as a "person beyond saving" is completely ignoring the fact that he is also a victim striking back at abusive systems.

okay, here we go:

let me preface this with one very important fact about this story idea: if i’m writing from the perspectives of endeavor, rei, and hawks, the writing is going to be extremely biased. i have my opinions that are not colored by the fact that touya/dabi is a real person with a real personal connection to me, but hawks and rei and enji do not have that luxury!

my original post was lamenting (jokingly) that endeavor content has a very small target audience, and throwing dabihawks in there makes it even smaller, but this is the real crux of it: fandom tends to dislike unreliable narration, or fails to recognize it at all, leading to hateful comments and accusations of, like, abuse apologism etc etc. -- which is fine, i’m an adult and i can handle a few vitriolic people on the internet, it’s just like... a thing i have to accept going in, you know?

(i should note that a lot of my wording in the tags was already colored by the mindset of rei, enji, and hawks’ perspectives, and not necessarily mine)

ANYWAY, let’s get into the meat of this, i.e. the characters and themes, which is what we’re all here for:

[ID: Anonymous said:  Dabi is asking to be saved but not from himself. He is asking to be save by society's glorification of heroes. What he wants is for his past abuser and hero society to be held as accountable for their actions as he is. Dabi is not the villain in Touya's story, Endeavor is, as is anyone who supports Endeavor over him. He wants Endeavors crimes to be treated as seriously as his own as any non-heroes crimes. /END ID]

i respectfully disagree! i don’t think dabi wants to be saved at all. i think he wants hero worshipping torn down, i think he wants everyone to see exactly how awful their “number one hero” really was, and with the context of the last few manga chapters, i think he also wants to be recognized as a force to be reckoned with. he’s almost the “you want a villain? fine, i’ll show you one” trope, except it’s “you think i can’t be a hero? fine, i’ll be the scariest villain you’ve ever goddamn seen” which is just.... delicious, narratively

the only reason i use the word “save” is, again, because of enji and rei and hawks. idk if you happen to have read my endeavor time loop fic, but i summed it up pretty neatly with a conversation between rei and enji here:

(“He’s done… some very, very terrible things. Things he’ll have to answer for. But… Enji, he’s still our son. As long as he’s alive, our son’s still out there.” // “You think we can save him,” Enji says. He’s not sure he believes it. He wants to, he desperately wants to, but he’s not sure he does. // “Maybe,” she shrugs. “Maybe not. But we’re his parents. We have no choice but to try.”)

in the context of this other story that only exists in my head so far, they know they might not be able to get through to touya. they know they might not be able to convince him to stop killing and stop all this destruction etc etc, and they know that if it comes down to having to kill him -- if, to borrow the words of the love of my life captain america a.k.a. sam wilson, he’s not the kind you save but the kind you have to stop -- then that’s their responsibility too. as his parents. as the people who sent him down this path in the first place.

and then, you know, hawks shows up. because he’s a stubborn bastard and i love him

[ID: Anonymous said:  The core of your story will have fan and interest if instead of this: "save someone they all care very much about but who they all know might be beyond saving?". You ask yourself "what does it mean to atone and how can you try to atone when you have done such irreversible damage. As well as what actions to we absolve and what actions do we demand retribution. Also how is forgiveness different from atonement who do we forgive and how does it look."

Anonymous said:  So you can have characters question things like "Why am I forgiving this person but not this other person, and am what I asking of a person even fair" Why can Hawks forgive Endeavor but feel conflicted about his parents. How does Rei feel about Endeavor vs Dabi. Is that fair and should they consider the families of the people Dabi hurt. How do they treat Dabi's feelings about how Hawks killed Twice compared to the families of the criminals Dabi killed. Things like that. /END ID]

catch me SCREAMING over this because YES! EXACTLY! this is exactly what i find so fascinating about this concept! you have endeavor who’s said “i’m not looking for forgiveness, only atonement” and that was before the touya reveal, so by now he’s more than aware of the irreversible damage he’s done. he knew he couldn’t ask for forgiveness from natsuo and he knows he can’t ask for forgiveness from touya. then you parallel that with rei, and how shouto’s chosen to forgive her, and how she (maybe, partially) has chosen to forgive enji, and THEN you have hawks, who forgave endeavor from the word “go” even though he’s shut his own parents out for all the damage they did, and then you have all three of them wanting so badly to be able to forgive dabi/touya for all the terrible things he’s done, and..... hhhhh it makes me INSANE, DUDE

(quick note: i personally believe dabi didn’t... actually care about twice. i know it’s up for interpretation, and that’s mine. on the flipside i think hawks feels very, very, very guilty over what he did, even if it was necessary, and in fact, a moment of him admitting that to rei is the only rock solid scene of this fic that i have in my head so far.)

[ID: Anonymous said: it's about . . . loving someone and wanting what's best for them#but not knowing how to reconcile that with the person you love not WANTING what's best for themselves bc theyre too deep in self destruction--No it's not, at least that's not the only way to handle the pairing it's also about wanting to be there for some one while actively doing the things that are hurting them while thinking you are doing what is best for them and ignoring their wishes because you think you know what is best. /END ID]

i would argue it’s both, actually! i’ve never read dabihawks content so idk the fandom consensus, but to me, the interesting thing about this relationship is that it’s incredibly toxic from both sides. hawks wants to get through to him somehow and talk him down (we’ve seen this mindset when he tried to talk twice down), and dabi does not want to be talked down and, in fact, would see the attempt itself as another act of betrayal. which again, makes me INSANE and is another reason i’m so fascinated by these dynamics

anyway! i think that kind of..... sums it up. this was fun to dig into even if i had to do it twice because tumblr is a fucking nightmare and deletes things i spent half an hour writing lmao

[iacon-stargazer]

THE POSITIVE & NEGATIVE: MUN & MUSE

fill out & repost ♥ this meme definitely favors canons more, but i hope oc’s still can make it somehow work with their own lore, and lil’ fandom of friends & mutuals. multimuses pick the muse you are the most invested in atm.

tagged by: stolen from @oneshallfall like.... months ago. im a slow gremlin hjksd. it's been in my drafts and i finally decided to finish the last few sections while working on clearing them out

tagging: steal it

MY MUSE IS.   canon / oc / au / canon-divergent / fandomless

is your character popular in the fandom?  YES / NO.

is your character considered hot™ in the fandom?  Well.../ NO / IDK. (i know optimus is but i don’t really... know about orion? i have seen a handful of fanartists who turn him into a very sexualized moe baby but i’m not sure about the fandom at large)

is your character considered strong in the fandom?  YES / NO / IDK.

are they underrated?  YES / NO. (lmao there’s like no fan content with him unless it’s with megatronus) 

were they relevant to the main story?  YES / NO.

were they relevant to the main character?  YES / NO / THEY’RE THE PROTAG.

are they widely known in their world?  YES / NO. (not yet.... lol)

how’s their reputation?  GOOD / BAD / NEUTRAL.

HOW STRICTLY DO YOU FOLLOW CANON?

This... this is a trick question in this goddamn mess of a continuity. That said, I try my absolute best to make my portrayal coherent with the TFP show... even if said show contradicts itself at times. I take inspiration from the earlier parts (the thirteen primes section) of the Covenant of Primus for his origin backstory, but ignore the rest of the Covenant since it makes absolutely no sense with his characterization in... literally anything else. I’ve peeked at Exodus and it utterly sucks, but I’ve picked up bits and pieces of concepts that originated there just from spending time in the fandom. Aside from that... I spend a ton of time thinking about how to weave everything together in a way that both makes sense and makes for a character development arc.

SELL YOUR MUSE! (aka try to list everything, which makes your muse interesting in your opinion to make them spicy for your mutuals.)

Orion is genuinely kind, thoughtful, and introspective, very loving of the world around him.

He’s also a more complex character than is initially obvious - despite mostly being good sweet pure baby nerd he’s still flawed, with many of those flaws being his strengths put into the wrong situation. His strong morals can lead to dogmatism, and he’s only slightly less likely to deliver lectures than Optimus. His determination to be kind and help everyone can come off as unintentionally patronizing at times; he has a very “well-intentioned semi-privileged middle class” perspective that he’s not always self-aware of. However, he’s also willing to look at himself critically and learn/adapt. 

Essentially, he has many of the same traits as Optimus... just more or less apparent and/or developed. He's less confident than he eventually becomes through his future experience with leadership, wanting to change the world for the better but sometimes struggling to ground his plans in reality—something that continues to apply, but with reduced intensity and frequency over time. Idealistic cinnamon roll will eventually develop some realism, though never really quite enough. His selflessness remains a strength for now, but we know that eventually it will dip into martyristic tendencies.

NOW THE OPPOSITE! (list everything why your muse could not be so interesting (even if you may not agree, what does the fandom perhaps think?)

He could be potentially ‘boring’ in some senses. he’s the polite, considerate ‘next door’ type, who has for most of his life has just lived as a very average middle caste nobody. He’s more laid-back than he eventually becomes as optimus, but where others might get into trouble and shenanigans he’s most likely to just express concern. And since I try to keep him at least mostly ic, even with non-serious posts, this can derail ‘fun’ stuff and I fear dissuade some interaction.

While I try my best to give him realistic flaws that work with his character, he could still be seen as a little too good. very kind, understanding, forgiving, patient, considerate... almost endlessly so. A lot of my “he’s so good and pure” interpretation comes from using his having been the thirteenth prime as backstory, where he was pretty much the epitome of that, but some might not like the “he was a literal deity in a past life” idea for its “super special chosen one protagonist” elements.

His responsiveness to his environment can also be a downside. He’s not the type to start things; he just reacts and responds, standing his ground and finding himself when things get crazy around him. without megatronus, he may have eventually attempted political campaigning, but it wouldn’t have gotten very far. He needs to have more intense characters or events around him for major plots to really go places. Without those nothing would ever happen besides slice of life fluff, because he’s content with that kind of life.

WHAT INSPIRED YOU TO RP YOUR MUSE?  

Honestly I just wanted to write op/ratch fhsjkdjsdh. But I also wanted to be able to interact with a variety of muses and so I chose Orion over Optimus because he’s not so emotionally closed off, which I figured would give more flexibility beyond the handful of characters op would reasonably have close personal and/or plot-important relationships with. Also, I can relate to him on a thought-process level which lets me get into his head easily, which additionally made him an appealing choice for my first real rp muse.

WHAT KEEPS YOUR INSPIRATION GOING?  

I just love him so much, especially with the layers of his character I've built up around him. I don't always have inspiration to write or rp, but I think about him a lot. When I do find motivation to write, it's generally out of wanting to continue to work on developing him and just having a chance to express his characterization.

SOME MORE PERSONAL QUESTIONS FOR THE MUN.

do you think you give your character justice?  YES / NO.

do you frequently write headcanons?  YES / NO.

do you sometimes write drabbles? YES / NO.  (i should do it more...)

do you think a lot about your muse during the day? YES / NO.

are you confident in your portrayal?   YES / NO. (at least most days fhsdhfskj)

are you confident in your writing?  YES / NO. (it waxes and wanes. I know I'm a good writer but I could still be better...)

are you a sensitive person?  YES / NO.

DO YOU ACCEPT CRITICISM WELL ABOUT YOUR PORTRAYAL?

I’ll be honest; I’ve never gotten criticism. I haven’t been here very long in comparison to some and I’ve never been that popular, so I figure I’m pretty easy to just ignore. I guess how I would feel about it would depend on what it was and how it was delivered, though I like to think I would be reasonable regardless

DO YOU LIKE QUESTIONS, WHICH HELP YOU EXPLORE YOUR CHARACTER?  

yes? yes absolutely?

IF SOMEONE DISAGREES TO A HEADCANON OF YOURS, DO YOU WANT TO KNOW WHY?  

I would be curious to hear their reasoning, but I think enough about how everything fits together that chances are I would agree to disagree

IF SOMEONE DISAGREES WITH YOUR PORTRAYAL, HOW WOULD YOU TAKE IT?

Depends on if their disagreement makes sense. Maybe I’ll give back my own reasoning for why I characterize the way I do. Maybe I’ll just agree to disagree, if their view is just totally different from mine. If they have valid points I’ll probably overthink it and spiral into self doubt. In all cases I’ll spill my thoughts to friends on discord.

IF SOMEONE REALLY HATES YOUR CHARACTER, HOW DO YOU TAKE IT?

......Orion in general or? ... fhsjkdhf...... Well if it was mine specifically that might hurt lol. But at the same time.... I doubt i’d agree with their takes either so... fair enough.

ARE YOU OKAY WITH PEOPLE POINTING OUT YOUR GRAMMATICAL ERRORS?  

Sure. I’m good at grammar so if something glaring is there it’s probably a typo I missed and I’ll be grateful for the chance to edit it out before more people see it lol

DO YOU THINK YOU ARE EASY GOING AS A MUN?  

Yeah. I’m pretty quiet most of the time because I just don’t have energy to talk to a lot of people, and I never want to get caught in drama. I honestly wouldn’t know what to do in a situation like that. I tend to avoid conflict, I’m quick to apologize, and polite with anyone I don’t know very well.

[lillupon]

So, I've got a very long rant/opinion here and Idk really know how to say this without coming off kinda bad but I'm gonna say it anyways. I agree with the fact that the seventeen tag has been kinda dry lately on most fanfic places, but it's really only in the smut area. It's the sane way with other groups too I feel like. All of the nice little innocent tags are boomin to this day and thats completely fine. I think the smut tag is dry tho bc lately I feel like a few social issues (like sexualizing people and disrespecting them and their identity) have crossed over into kpop and have been ?blown out of proportion? Lately there's been a rampage of people who like to say that writing smut about someone is disgusting and is dehumanizing because people want to assume that it would make the idols uncomfortable which could equate to some morality issues on how you are reducing someone only to their body without their consent and a bunch of stuff like that. It kind of pisses me off bc this is fiction. About grown adults. Clamping down on horny people who simp over hot asian men isn't going to solve the issues we face in real life. I think a shit ton is wrong with the world we currently live in, and deciding to come after something that isn't even real bothers me. Like what does that actually accomplish. But yeah, I think thats a reason why smut has been dying down. I mean, on youtube almost every video about unpopular opinions, or things they dont like about kpop will include something about shipping idols in fanfics. And then everyone in the comment section will talk about how its all fine and dandy in moderation, but once people start writing smut it's crossing the idols personal boundaries. It's something I've been seeing a lot more often and I think people who are interested in writing smut are being turned away from it bc we've gotten to a point where people are being called disgusting for having fantasies.

Hi Anon, thank you for sending in this Ask. 

I want to preface this by saying: when I write or talk about Mingyu and Wonwoo fucking on my blog, it is a fantasy. I am not speculating about what the real Mingyu and Wonwoo might be like in bed. I am imagining the versions of Mingyu and Wonwoo that I have created in my head, that exist only in my stories. None of it is real. I understand that this can be a blurry boundary for some people. But for me, the separation between fantasy and reality is well-defined. Now, on to your Ask!

You’ve hit the nail on the head with this one. You’ve also touched on many of the issues I have been struggling with myself as of late. It’s difficult to argue about morals since everyone has a different set of values, as well as different comfort levels. Some people think real person fiction (RPF) is a gross invasion of privacy. Others are fine with it. And others don’t care one way or another. There is no single answer; I can only offer my answer. Which means, of course, people are welcome to disagree with it, or parts of it. 

In this essay (LOL But forreal: this is an essay), I will be sharing my experience in the k-pop fanfic community from 2014 to present, the etiquette I personally abide by as a reader and writer of RPF, as well as my stance on RPF in general.

I started reading and posting fanfics back in 2014/2015 on a website called AsianFanfics (AFF). Obviously, no one on that site had a problem with RPF, since AFF is a platform made specifically for sharing stories about Asian celebrities. For many years, I read and enjoyed RPF with zero guilt. I scribbled away by myself in my own corner of fandom and curated my own content. I didn’t interact much with other fans, readers, or writers. I didn’t have a Twitter, and I only used tumblr to reblog memes. As a result, I’ve been able to avoid a lot of anti-shipping discourse, as well as purity and cancel culture. I had no idea there were so many negative opinions about RPF. It wasn’t until I became active on the subreddit r/Fanfiction last year that I learned about all the discourse surrounding RPF. 

This newfound ‘awareness’ does make me feel guilty at times—but only because after mulling this over, I still don’t think this is something to feel guilty about.

Here’s what I remember, first and foremost, when I create and consume RPF: fanfics and my favourite ships are fictional, and fiction is fantasy. This is basic etiquette when it comes to RPF, and most people in the k-pop fandom understand this. Delusional fans exist, of course, but they are not representative of the entire k-pop community. 

Another point of etiquette is to keep fanfics within fandom spaces. I would never push my fics into celebrities’ faces, or go around claiming that my fanfics are accurate representations of a k-idol’s life or personality, in any way, shape, or form. I would also discourage directing ship-related questions to official accounts, or bringing them up during fansigns or other face-to-face interactions; I believe that in these instances, shipping does have the potential to strain real-life relationships.

So with basic etiquette out of the way, let me share my approach to RPF in general.

As much as we like to think we know our favourite celebrities, we really don’t. All we see is their public persona. And this public persona is intentionally controlled, managed, and curated by a team of people: directors, tabloids, editors, makeup artists, publicists, etc. How “real” are these celebrities? We are so distanced from them that they may as well be fictional.

I draw from the public persona that idols project, and I work them into my own writing. But at the end of the day, these personalities are my own interpretation. My interpretation is probably nothing like an idol’s actual personality. I just use the “public persona/character” that idols portray as inspiration for my own stories, which are set in wildly different universes.

More than anything, I think of k-pop idols as “actors” in my fic. You know how when you write an original novel, you scroll through Google images, looking for the perfect person to portray your original character? RPF is literally that, except you might build upon pre-existing dynamics and personalities.

When it comes to explicit fanfiction, two main concerns are prevalent: one of consent, and one of sexualisation.

If we argue against explicit RPF due to lack of consent, we should be willing to apply the same lens to all explicit works. How do we know that the creator of a movie, book, series, etc., is okay with us using their characters in our stories, explicit or not? We don’t. Perhaps some creators encourage fanfiction, but don’t want their lovingly crafted characters engaging in sexual acts or experiencing trauma. We just don’t know. I feel this line is even more blurred when we talk about characters from movies or TV series.

Let’s take Steve Rogers and Bucky Barnes, as portrayed by Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan, from the Captain America movies as an example. I am willing to bet that when people consume and create explicit fanfiction about Steve and Bucky, they are imagining Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan in their heads. I doubt many people are imagining the 2D cartoon versions of Steve and Bucky, even though they’re technically the exact same characters. Why? Well, it could be because movies are more readily and easily consumed than comics, and so people are unfamiliar with comic book Steve and Bucky. But it might also be because fans find Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan attractive. Is this really any different from RPF, where fic authors make up everything about a celebrity’s life?  

When readers and writers of fanfic talk about how hot Steve Rogers or Bucky Barnes is, those comments are about Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan’s bodies. When reading explicit stories, fans are going to picture Chris and Sebastian’s bodies in their head, doing sexual things. Can we say, “Well, it’s not really you, Chris/Sebastian”, when in a way, it is?

The reality is, people are going to thirst over celebrities, regardless of whether or not explicit fanfiction exists. They’re going to post thirst tweets on Twitter. They’re going to talk to friends and strangers online about how hot [insert celebrity name here] is. They’re going to fantasize about dating and having sex with their favourite celebrity. Or, as it is in my case, they’re going to make up stories in their heads about their favourite idols dating and banging each other. People are going to do all of this without ‘getting consent’ from the celebrity. Cracking down upon and shaming writers of RPF isn’t going to change any of that.

To be honest, I’m not sure why people think it is disgusting to imagine sexual scenarios about real people. It is okay and normal to have these kinds of fantasies. I suppose the alternative is to fantasise about having sex with cartoon characters instead? It’s a very binary way of thinking to say that if you imagine/write real people in explicit scenarios, you are immediately sexualising, dehumanising, or objectifying them. There is more to dehumanisation than writing smut about our favourite celebrities. For one thing, you can love someone and appreciate all parts of them, and still want to fuck their brains out. And generally, fanfics come from a place of love—love that is not only sexual in nature.

Is it the sharing aspect inherent to fanfiction? The possibility that a celebrity might stumble upon explicit works about them? The chances are very low, I think, of the k-pop idols I enjoy writing about coming across my English fics. But I also believe in curating your own content, and that applies to celebrities too. Perhaps a celebrity should not go searching for fanfics about themselves. And of course, people should not show celebrities their fanfics, unless invited.

Another argument I hear against (explicit) RPF is, “How would you feel if someone wrote fanfiction about you?” First off, I don’t like this argument because there’s a difference between someone who decides to be a public figure versus someone who decides to remain a regular private citizen. Celebrities should and do know what they’re getting into when they choose their occupation. (This is not to say, “They are celebrities; sexualise them all you want because that’s what they signed up for.” Here, I am only acknowledging that people might have sexual fantasies about celebrities they are attracted to. Presumably, celebrities are cognizant of this.)  

If someone (whose existence I am not even aware of, mind you) decides they want to write explicit fanfiction of me in some tiny corner of the Internet, I wouldn’t care so long as: (1) they don’t shove it into my face, and (2) they don’t harass me and ask invasive questions about my personal life and relationships. It’s not hurting me or negatively affecting my life, so it wouldn’t even register as a blip on my radar. When fanfiction remains within its appropriate spaces, it is largely harmless. 

Now, if a k-pop idol were to ask their fans to stop writing fanfiction about them, would I? Yes, I would. However, I can’t imagine that happening. Judging by the number of ‘sexy’ concepts, fanservice moments, and variety shows such as ‘We Got Married’, I am certain that k-pop idols realise they are the stars of many fantasies—some of which are explicit in nature. Considering the prevalence of shipping in the k-pop industry, I would argue that shipping is subtly encouraged.

It’s sad that so many talented writers are shamed out of fandom, or feel that k-pop cannot be the medium through which they tell their stories, or explore their sexuality, or cope with trauma, or simply have fun. Professional works and Hollywood love their RPF—readers and writers of fanfics should be able to, as well. 

As you said Anon, “clamping down on horny people who simp over hot asian men isn't going to solve the issues we face in real life” (this is a lovely sentence, by the way). The kind of person who dehumanises another and reduces them to a sexual object will do so some other way, if not via fanfiction. I don’t think the issue of fetishisation can be fixed simply by telling people not to write explicit RPF. In my experience, people who read and write RPF are more respectful and thoughtful about these things than the general public. We’ve all seen the general public say highly sexual things about celebrities in the media and to their faces, or tag celebrities in their thirst tweets. Are these things less invasive than fanfiction? Personally, I don’t think so. And in my opinion, there are more pressing and damaging issues in stan culture than fanfic.

In conclusion, I don’t think there is anything wrong with creating and consuming RPF, both explicit and non-explicit so long as we:

Remember we are writing fiction

Keep RPF within its appropriate space, and

Do not harass celebrities about their personal lives and relationships

RPF is not for everyone. There may be people who enjoy RPF, but draw the line at explicit stories. This is fine. Everyone has their own personal preferences. What is not fine, however, is attacking people for creating things you don’t like. I’m not sure what kind of moral crusade people are on and what they hope to achieve by shaming writers of RPF, explicit or otherwise. Ultimately, fic authors are writing a fantasy. It’s not real; no one is being hurt. I think it’s important for people to curate their own content, and AO3 makes it very easy to filter out explicit works and unwanted tags. 

Maybe this is me trying to justify my own participation in explicit RPF—I don’t know. What I do know is that I love k-pop, and fandom is an important part of my media and entertainment experience. I adore the k-pop idols I write about, and I just want to imagine them being happy and getting lots of love and orgasms. Let a bitch be horny, goddamn… 

Some bonus fun facts!

At the time I am writing this, on AO3:

26.2% of Stray Kids fanfics are rated M or E

26.3% of Seventeen fanfics are rated M or E

29.0% of Merlin fanfics are rated M or E

34.9% of Captain America (Movies) fanfics are rated M or E

40.1% of BTS fanfics are rated M or E ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Coincidentally, I saw this post on Reddit this morning: Can we have a RPF positivity post?

[callioope]

Continuing my reactions to Avatar: The Last Airbender

This post is about Book 3. See my overall impressions and thoughts on Book 1 here. See my thoughts on Book 2 here.

ETA: crap i forgot the keep reading line initially SORRY if anyone saw this before i edited. anyways. please see the tags as a disclaimer before reading. gosh it’s late i need to go to bed.

General

Starting S3 now and dang Katara & Toph have gotten so powerful!!!!!

I literally recorded ZERO reactions from Chapter One through Chapter Twelve. And my first reaction is basically my excitement that Zuko is finally with the Aang crew! But let me try to skim through an episode list to recall my reactions.

You may have already seen my post expressing shock that MARK HAMILL voiced the Fire Lord. Still not over that revelation.

So, ultimately, I binged this show in less than a week. I think I started on Monday? And finished Saturday afternoon. That alone should speak to how much I enjoyed it! 

Aang

Okay, a bit weird to have barely any thoughts under Aang when he’s literally the protagonist, but I think (since I wrote other sections before this) that I touch on some of my thoughts on him under other characters. 

I will say, his journey really intensifies in this season. First, when he awakens after being unconscious for several days and has no idea what’s going on, and is still healing and more helpless than he’s probably ever felt in his life. I did really like his arc in this season, but what a stark contrast to the Aang of Book 1. He has to grow up so fast. I gotta say, a lot of Aang’s journey reminded me just a little of Ender in Ender’s Game. 

I do say this later, but his final decision about how to handle Ozai was amazing. I loved every second of his journey to get there, and I was rooting for him to find a path that felt true to him — and not what everyone else kept telling him he had to do. 

There was one small thing that bothered me, which was that his eventual regaining of the Avatar state did not really seem to come about through intentional action of his own. After he goes down at the end of Book 2, sorta feels like they never even talk about him going into the Avatar state again and he doesn’t until the final moment. That moment doesn’t seem a conscious choice on his part; the scar on his back collides with a rock jutting out and seems to jolt him into the Avatar state. I would have liked to see a little more agency on his part in regards to the Avatar state. 

Sokka

My boy! My boy Sokka! Truly the mother of the group. IDK why they pretended in the beginning that Katara was the mom because it’s definitely Sokka. His maps! His scheduling! He is ridiculous and I love him for it. 

I adored that he got his own training master episode! He got to learn some sword stuff and even got to make a fancy space sword! Everyone else got super powerful with their bending and I’m glad Sokka got his own arc of self-improvement. He has come a LONG way from episode 1. He couldn’t really hold his own at all that early, and now look at him! Planning battle strategies! Taking down the Fire Lord’s air fleet! He’s come so far and I’m so proud!

Oh, you know, I just realized that I didn’t really talk about ships with Sokka in Book 2 but he did continue to have the most active romance arc. It was nice to see Suki return in Book 2, and I am glad we found out what happened to her. I liked Sokka and Suki, I have nothing against it. I was very surprised that so little happened with Toph and Sokka. There did seem to be moments where it seemed like Toph might actually harbor a crush on Sokka, but nothing came of it and she certainly didn’t say anything about it. That felt a little odd to me. Why hint at something but then make nothing of it? 

Katara

Sigh. This is early in the post, but probably one of the last parts of it that I’m actually writing. I’ve definitely been putting it off. Unfortunately most of what I have to say about Katara is about shipping, and I’m really not happy about that, but then it’s what comes to mind over anything else. Which is sort of ironic considering some of her lines in the theater episode...

So in the theatre episode, Aang confronts Katara about how nothing has happened in their relationship after they kissed. She responds by saying she is “confused.” I had some issues with the script here, to be honest. It seems to imply that she’s confused about her feelings for Aang. But she also says that she’s been more focused on the war, and that totally makes sense. I really would support this moment if that’s where they left it: “I don’t have time to think about romance, my mind is preoccupied with the war.” 

But no, they say she is “confused.”

This is pretty baffling to me, and honestly seems to come out of nowhere. Book 1 it was very obvious that both Katara and Aang have feelings for each other, and Book 2 might have backed off a little from that but then we get moments where Katara is so keyed in to Aang’s struggles with the Avatar state and also the only one who can bring him out of it. Now, all of a sudden, she is saying she is confused? Where is this coming from? 

I could definitely see people argue that it’s because she has feelings for Zuko. If I shipped them (I don’t, but I also Get It), I could point to numerous moments in the series as ‘clues/support’ for this ship. Zuko and Katara have a moment at the end of Book 2 where they talk about the loss of their mothers. (“We’re both sad about what happened to our mothers!” not really a foundation for a relationship, but Katara is the most betrayed and distrustful of Zuko when it comes to the idea of letting him join their crew and it is because of this moment. She obviously begins to feel some kind of connection — I’d argue platonic but ship and let ship.) 

And yeah, Zuko and Katara have their bonding adventure, but again I don’t think this has to be read as romantic. Clearly the idea here is that Zuko “understands” a part of Katara that Aang doesn’t — except that in the end, Aang is the one who is right about her. She cannot give in to revenge. It’s not her, and Aang knows that. I mean, they’re both right — Katara had go to on the journey to learn that about herself, and it was important that Zuko was the one who helped her. But still. 

Finally Zuko and Katara go together to face Azula. Again seems like plot is pushing them together for Tension. They definitely work together here and Katara heals him and all that but she’d have healed anyone. (Like yeah if you ship it of course you’re gonna be excited over those moments.)

But.

Like. The thing is. When the dust settles? Zuko and Mai return to each other like moths to a flame. I could believe that Katara might have had feelings for Zuko, but I don’t think he ever returned them. I think it was always Mai for him. 

I don’t really want to fan the flames of ship wars — I’m trying to walk a fine line of “I totally understand why people ship this, but I don’t,” and hopefully I’m succeeding, but I’m sorry if I’m not. 

My main gripe is how the show handled this dynamic. It seemed like they half-heartedly thought about creating a love triangle, but then they didn’t follow through. I don’t particularly like love triangles, so I’m not actually mad that there wasn’t one. But what bothers me is that the Aang and Katara moments are so heavy handed in the beginning, that a sudden subtle take on how Katara feels in Book 3 feels strange. It feels like if she was having feelings for Zuko, it should have been more blatant. The depictions are inconsistent — if the writers were even ever intending for Katara to have feelings for Zuko in the first place.

Like, I really can’t tell if those moments implying Zuko and Katara were intentionally trying to start a love triangle OR if it was just sort of a mistake OR if it was maybe creators trying to address and then negate Zuko and Katara as a ship? I mean it’s weird because the play episode really emphasizes Zuko and Katara but then that play is really supposed to be all levels of inaccurate and get under the characters’ skins. 

So, I don’t know. Obviously we all bring different interpretations to a piece of media and I am by no means saying anything here is a “correct opinion” (because I hate that attitude when it comes to story interpretations). Sorry if you don’t agree, hope I didn’t make anyone mad. Ship what you like! You do you, man. 

On that note, please see further disclaimers about shipping and canon at the end of the “Zuko and Mai” section below.

Toph

Loved how Toph was the first to warm up to Zuko. It made a lot of sense. I mean obviously they were looking for a fire bender to teach Aang and it was like “Hello, powerful fire bender on a silver platter!” but also, Toph is someone who joined the crew later on. The group had to adjust to her, and she probably knows what it feels like to be an outsider. Now, granted, she was never alienated from the group in the same way that Zuko (rightfully) was. But she can also understand Zuko’s position as someone who comes from a wealthy family, the sort of pressure that comes from that. None of this was really addressed explicitly, and it might not have really fit then and there, but it was what I was thinking as she was standing up for Zuko.

Um, and also, on that note? Huge bummer Toph did not get her special bonding adventure with Zuko. Toph, I’m with you on that one! Why did Sokka get two episodes for his? 

Zuko

No “& Iroh” on this post because — Iroh spent much of this season in jail, and then the next half just ??? who knows where. 

So, I believe I stated in the last post how shocked I was at Zuko’s betrayal. Knowing he eventually joins Aang’s crew, it seemed like his time in the prison with Katara would ultimately lead to that, and then NOPE! He has this nice heart to heart about his mother, and then… it really shocked me.

But.

As I watched this season, it became clear that this has to be Zuko’s journey. He has to go back to the Fire Nation. He has to win the approval of his father. He has to get everything he wants in order to realize that it really isn’t what he wants. This is integral to his ultimate revelation and redemption and he couldn’t have stayed truly good without verifying and knowing how empty the win of his father’s approval is.

Realizing this, I loved it and appreciated the moments we get. Zuko’s visits to Iroh. Even when Zuko is being cruel, you can see how hurt and lost he is. And Iroh gives him the cold shoulder he deserves, even though of course this is breaking Iroh’s heart, too. 

Now, I absolutely must discuss the Fire Kids Beach Party episode! Because as ridiculous as parts of it are, it provides such an important and necessary insight to all four characters (Zuko, Azula, Mai, and Ty Lee). You see the privilege that they’re all used to, it’s good that no one knows who they all are. (although maybe a little surprising because Zuko’s scar certainly reveals who he is but anyways.) 

and it’s funny how you almost end up rooting for them before you’re like “no no no. they are bad people doing some bad things.” I mean, almost rooting for them. And sure, the campfire scene is a bit Breakfast Club-y but I do think it’s important. And I just loved the moment Zuko admits he’s angry at himself, how his burst of fire as he says it almost covers it up, it’s so hard for him to say. Fabulous character development going on here, fabulous. 

[Uh, side note, so apparently Zuko is descended from Avatar Roku! This is ridiculous but can we get Zuko calling Aang great-grandfather, mainly to get on his nerves?! O:-) this would amuse me greatly]

And GOSH the catharsis when Zuko finally realizes his father’s approval is not what he wants and not worth it! It’s so well earned. It’s so satisfying. I was so excited and just like, so anticipating Zuko going to meet up with the crew. Zuko practicing his speech in the woods to the frog? Amazing. Endearing. I love him so much. 

And despite that and because of it, I also loved how difficult it was for him to earn their trust. It had to be difficult. It would not be believable if it wasn’t. Every character regarded him exactly as you would expect them to, exactly as he deserved. And Zuko tried so hard to be sincere and contrite, and it was hard for him, but he was doing pretty well all things considered! And still, they distrusted him. Yes. This was good and right. And I loved it. 

AND ANOTHER THING I LOVED was that once that initial barrier was surpassed, Aang actually warmed up to Zuko pretty quickly. This is not surprising; he’d reached out to Zuko in the past. First when Zuko (masked) rescues him, and Aang says they could have been friends. Later, at the end of Book 1 when Zuko again kidnaps him, there’s just a moment… I think when Aang spares him. It’s like, my impression is that Aang can sense that their destinies are connected, and he’s not really sure how but he knows that Zuko is important. Also, I mean, Aang just doesn’t kill people and revenge is not his way. 

Each character getting their own side story with Zuko was also integral to his arc — perhaps moreso, theirs, though. Because it was necessary for them to overcome their distrust and forge the bonds necessary for the Avatar’s crew to function. Bummed he didn’t get one with Toph. Toph was robbed.

And side note, but I really would have like an Aang and Sokka bonding episode? Like, Book 1 is all Aang and Katara and Sokka, but some 1:1 time would have been nice. There was almost a chance when Aang flew Sokka to his father and the water tribe (and at the time I was like, “Oh? Aang and Sokka bonding?!”) But then it was really only a few minutes. But yeah, that said, it does make sense to focus on carving out 1:1 time for Zuko and each member of the crew to ease him into the group.

Sokka: You happy now?

Zuko: I’m never happy.

This made me sad. And also made me go “classic Zuko.”

Every time Zuko was like, “What would uncle say?” And then say the most ridiculous thing? Fantastic. Amazing. Fuel for the fire that was my love for this show.

Zuko and Mai

Mainly the Beach Party episode was important in helping me warm up to Mai. Once Zuko is back in the Fire Nation and they’re together, I was of the mindset that Mai would have to do something pretty big in order for me to enjoy seeing their relationship become canon. This episode is not that episode, but it is an important insight into Mai’s character that explains some of her actions. The fact that she’s basically internalized apathy because she’s been forced to repress her emotions. It wasn’t enough for me but we get more later, this is an important stepping stone. 

It’s also important in establishing just what Zuko and Mai’s dynamic is. It’s a bit shaky in this and they end up breaking up but then they just get back together like immediately (moths to a flame…) In hindsight, I just think they’re behaving like normal teens who care about each other but are still navigating what it means to be in a relationship. At this moment in time, their relationship is not good, but by the end of the show I can believe as they mature that it could be a good relationship.

So the actual moment that I was like, “Okay, officially supporting Mai and Zuko now” was when she helps them escape Boiling Rock. I don’t think we’re ever told the full contents of Zuko’s letter to her, but considering what she says to Zuko earlier in this episode, it doesn’t seem likely he explains himself very well. At least not for Mai to understand. And he still isn’t able to explain himself well to her as they talk face to face. Then he locks in a cell and flees! He leaves her again. 

You wouldn’t blame Mai for hating Zuko. You wouldn’t blame her for actively working against him. But is this what happens? No. Not at all. She helps them get away. She betrays Azula for Zuko. Azula!!! Azula who is very powerful and very scary! This is a clear and distinct line in the sand, and … it almost comes out of nowhere, but what it demonstrates is how she really feels about him. She’s decided to trust him and put her faith in him when she really would have been justified in not doing so. 

I’m also going to say that despite some rather odd implications of Zuko and Katara in parts of the series (namely with other characters who really don’t know them), I never feel like Zuko is interested in Katara. I would buy interpretations that Katara might have considered Zuko, the way some parts of her story are portrayed, but I don’t get anything on Zuko’s side and that is all the more reinforced by how he acts around Mai, especially in the end of the series when they’re reunited. 

(Now, that said — because I don’t abide ship wars, ship and let ship, and power to multi-shippers — I can totally 100% see the appeal of shipping Zuko and Katara, and I would contend there is even some canonical implication of it. And I can’t blame people for not totally loving Zuko and Mai. Now, I do think the canonical implications are sort of muddied and confusing, but though I have actually not written it yet, you’ll have read my thoughts there in the Katara section already. OH, and OF COURSE, MORE IMPORTANTLY — ships being canon should not matter! Ship what you love! Who cares if it’s canon! Finding canon justification for ships should not be necessary for shipping! It can be a fun exercise but should never ever be a reason for approving or disapproving of a ship, it’s just a cherry on top!)

Azula

We get some pretty interesting insights into her character this season. I’ve already mentioned the Beach Party episode, and there was some good stuff in there for her. I particularly appreciated the moment that she admitted she knew her mother thought she was a monster, that she even admitted to being a monster, and then admitted that it still hurt anyways. Honestly that’s probably her best moment.

I also thought her breakdown at the end was well done. Mai and Ty Lee’s betrayal just broke her. She probably knows her attitude puts people off, but those two were the only ones she ever really got on with. And it turns out, she really didn’t get on with them, they’d only ever been intimidated and manipulated into being her friends. She has no one, she pushes everyone away. Literally — and it is ultimately her downfall. 

It’s an interesting contrast to her brother. We literally get an episode “Zuko Alone,” and then it turns out the theme of “Azula Alone” is such an integral part of her arc, as well. The last person she has is her father, and he leaves her, too. Sure, he tells her it’s because she’s to stay behind as the new Fire Lord, but honestly Ozai was never truly close to anyone, either. But yeah. Iroh spends a lot of time and effort trying to help Zuko redeem himself. He never tries with Azula? I think, maybe it would have been nice to see him try with her, and be just utterly rebuffed. Now, Zuko also rebuffed him a lot, too. So Azula’s rejection of Iroh would really have to be something. This is the kind of stuff I’d look for in fic. Speaking of fic: I mean, I’d really love Zuko to find his mom, mom to come back, and then maybe some kind of attempt at reparations between mom and Azula. It doesn’t have to work, I just want to see the effort, you know?

Final Thoughts: Ending & Denouement

I loved Aang finding a different way to defeat the Fire Lord. I loved how every past Avatar he talked to was like “no dude just kill him.” And I loved that that was not enough for Aang. He’s pushing himself and ultimately the spirit of the Avatar to think harder, to try harder, to seek a different way. And that mercy was so integral to Aang’s character, and important to his arc that he struggled so much with it. And he’s just a kid! Oh, Aang. And I loved that he was able to find the answer he needed, the fact that it was taking away Ozai’s fire bending. Yes. Perfection.

I was a little disappointed by how little we got post-Ozai’s defeat. I was hoping the epilogue might have shown a little more in the years and decades following. It would have been nice to see glimpses of everyone prospering as they got older. 

Also, as I was watching Zuko’s coronation, I was sorta like, “uhh wait that’s a little too easy.” Now we don’t know when that happens so it’s possible some bit of time has lapsed and I’ll take that. But I thought there would have still been some trouble with some of the Fire Nation troops. Some of them would have remained loyal to Ozai. Many of those general had probably committed war crimes and would have needed to be rounded up and put on trial and put in prison. There’d be so much work to do!

That said, I do understand that we want to see our heroes with a happy ending, ultimately. I guess just a simple like “X years later” before the ending scenes would have sufficed for me to be satisfied that enough time had passed for those things to have been dealt with. IDK, I can probably suspend disbelief enough to headcanon that myself. I’m just saying. Some acknowledgement of resolution and reconstruction as a *process over time*, albeit unnecessary, would have been nice to have!

On that note, we don’t actually find out what happens to Azula. Presumably she is also in prison with her father. 

More importantly, we were Robbed of a Zuko and Ursa reunion scene!

[itsclydebitches]

I found your post about character bashing tags intersting. In the modern Harry Potter fandom on Ao3, they are still in use because I think it's become such an integral part of that fandom's culture as a relic of early fandom. But you can see in some more modern fandoms a sort of convergent evolution, for example, in the Sanders Sides fandom, the tags 'Sympathetic' and 'Unsympathetic' get used to warn of character portrayals. I find it interesting how some fandoms have these tags and others don't

It really is fascinating, especially since Sanders Sides isn't exactly a traditional canon, yeah? I mean, just the format of Sanders' vids feels, to me anyway, like it shouldn't produce the need for sympathetic/unsympathetic tagging. They're very archetypal characters that belong to short comedy sketches and aren't following a standard plotline. So my guess (and I'm not in the fandom, so I really am guessing here), is that these more complex portrayals stem from the fandom expanding on the characters past what Sanders actually produced? There just seems to be a fundamental difference between tagging for, say, an unsympathetic Snape when the ethics of his actions are a focal point of the canon vs. taking a character like Patton and going, "But what if we depicted him like an evil stepfather instead?" (With perhaps some comedy-based details for justifying that in the vids. Again, idk the sketches well.) Though there is something intriguing in the idea that, since they're all only one part of a whole personality, each will inevitably cause problems simply by virtue of, you know, not being a "real," balanced person...

Anyway, yeah, I'd love to know how and why each fandom does/does not develop such warnings, though it's notoriously hard to trace that sort of work back to its beginnings. Especially for a fandom as old as Harry Potter, given that so many works have been lost to purged accounts and dead websites, to name just one challenge. My guess (and this is another guess) is that it's a combination of whether the canon is inclined towards needing such warnings and whether the more popular fic writers end up using them. Harry Potter certainly needs them. I can remember the intense conversations surrounding Snape, Ron, Dumbledore, and how much each deserves the readers' sympathy after various types of failures. Again, that was the point in the story, to demonstrate those flaws, but the radically different conclusions fans came to meant that many wanted to warn when their fics were using an "obvious" reading of the characters that others might not agree with. And those fans, likely, had some sort of standing within the community. The golden age of Harry Potter fic (so to speak lol) was also the age of Big Name Fans, so if any of them utilized such warnings, their massive audience was likely to follow suit. And at that point it just perpetuates itself. Yeah, nowadays it's such a staple of the fandom that unless we were to get an influx of new fans who don't bother to read previous fics/emulate them (which is not only really unlikely in general, but feels particularly unlikely as communities like tumblr push for a complete rejection of anything Harry Potter related), then those trends will just keep popping up.

Newer fandoms like RWBY though... they don't have that history. More importantly though, it looks like there's some difference between its community and something like Sanders Sides, which is comparatively new too. I mentioned in the last post a lack of respect and though all fandoms absolutely have their problems and though RWBY absolutely has wonderful pockets (hey, friends!) I stand by my claim that it's one of the more bullheaded fandoms I've come across. Harry Potter has its insane discourse simply by virtue of its popularity, size, and subject matter, but back in the day, debating the actions and worth of characters was fun. Friends online and off got into heated debates specifically because we enjoyed providing evidence, hearing new ideas, and testing our convictions. Arguing (in a respectful manner where everyone implicitly understood that none of us were truly mad) was a Saturday night pastime. Now, it feels like more fans believe in a right and wrong answer, perpetuated by RWBY's black and white canon in recent years. The idea is no longer to acknowledge the complexity inherent in these characters and likewise acknowledge that individual fans will react to them in vastly different ways, but rather to say, "No. They're 100% bad (or good) and that's all there is to it." The tagging acknowledges that this is just one interpretation, whereas many recent fandom pockets believe that one interpretation is all that exists.

[lady-plantagenet]

What hasn’t already been said: The Spanish Princess 2

Episode 2: SOdden (or Sod ‘Em depending on your persuasion)

(Dont know how long I’ll be able to keep these puns up)

Catherine, like this woman, does not really fit into this era. But while this woman seems dropdead cool and at least looks the part, Catherine just...

To all those of you keen enough to have come back for another segment of ‘what hasn’t already been said: TSP’, as opposed to have just been scrolling when you see this - welcome back! (Scrollers you too <3)

To anyone who’s seeing this for the first time: what this is a list of observations, jokes, reactions and criticism which occur to me upon a rewatch. I wait every week until Saturday to do this so that I have had my fill of scrolling through the tag and aggregating what has already been said. I tried doing a whole spoof (here where I gave up 10% in) but tbh a) I don’t know the history well enough b) it’s more time consuming than I thought and c) this series is just not as funny or as crazy as TWQ, so it’s untenable. Having said that: This is not a hatepost. I’m not hatewatching this series and nitpicking on purpose but expressing my honest views and trying to find the good in it as well as the bad.

Without further ado...

First Scenes:

The baby cloth lifting into the ceiling of the chapel had nice ‘myth of the demon countess of Anjou (ancestress of the Plantagenets)’ vibes. I am 100% that was unintentional. I get this impression by the cringiness of the baby’s screams (what’s up with those sound effects? It sounded like a zipper).

Henry gives me such softboi vibes? It’s pleasing to me because it’s making me attracted to him as a viewer, but no good in convincing me this is Henry VIII.

I think Catherine’s exposition about how she feels is pretty ok actually, it’s fitting that she would feel anger.

CHARLES’ FATHER IS NOT MAXIMILIAN, IT’S PHILIP (or rather it was). ~~ A quick wiki search guyz, a quick wiki search. Ughh

Again with the whole everyone acting like Catherine is Queen. Can they cut it out? Also while we’re at it, what was Catherine’s attendance in councils even like?

The music was nice

Post Child announcement phase:

Oof I hate to say it but I lowkey wanted de la Pole back in this mother. Mainly because it would mean more Margaret Pole and by this point I am scared her storyline will fade in prominence now that there’s no longer a Yorkist subplot (showhorned as it was, it was the crowning glory of last season tied with Arthur x Catherine).

More x Maggie Pole and all of it over Seneca and learning :’). I already know this will be the best part of the episode.

‘We certainly know stoicism in our family’ ~ I guess she’s referring to Reggie? Because our boi Clarence was no poster boy for stoicism. Though could she be making an ironic reference to her father~?

Edmund de la Pole Debacle:

Well this convo at least passed the bechdel test.

Maggie and Edmund’s interactions here are touching. I know this plotline was rushed but I think it was just right to bring us back here for 5 min as a mournful throwback to the bygone era to which Maggie Pope belongs to and now continues to do so alone. It is emotionless and you can just feel how the York cause was hanging on by a tired old threat by that point.

Maggie Pole is becoming matronly now and I like this transition.

What bothers me about a lot of fans of Margaret Pole is that what they don’t realise is that she wasn’t all like ‘I want nothing to do with my family I’ll stay low and obscure’. While far more cautious than the likes of her ancestors, she did engage in land disputes with Henry VIII and was an outspoken supporter of Catherine and Catholic. Having her be a woman woth dubious loyalties towards the Tudors is accurate.

Scotland with Meg and Jammes:

LMFAO it’s like they read my mind when I spoke of how much I laughed when Meg was like ‘Alexander Steward you pig!1!!’ last episode.

Nice reference to Aulde Alliance

I like James.

Henry and Catherine on the balcony:

Was she commander of the forces? Was Howard appointed that? Regent she was, ok.

Charlotte Hope’s new hairstyles really suit her!

‘Will you please stop cursing’ agahsjdk ahah

No offence to women (of which I am one) but this comparison between childbirth and war is just... wrong. I know Starz think they are being smart but childbirth is far less impressive than winning or surviving a battle - comparing the two diminishes the bravery of soldiers. YET ,having said that, childbirth is necessary for our society whereas war is almost always futile and by comparing them, it wrongly represents violence as something inherently as natural to us as birth and continuing of civilisation. overall not a smart, respectful or accurate parrallel to make.

Meg and prep for invasion + Catherine in her weird armour:

So Margaret dreams that her husband is dead and bloody in her bed. Ughh show you neeed to get more creative. But I did like the whole ‘dreams are how our ancestors talk to us’ line from Angus Douglas.

Re: Meg in her beret... Why is Meg dressed like me going to the London shops in October? Digging the aesthetic but not sure about the accuracy.

Rich of Catherine to bring up Edmund.

Why is Ursula Pole crying??? What is all this to her really?

Did Howard just call the guard... sonny?? Is this some WW2 crossover?

Catherine - James and the tent parlay:

Did Catherine just insult Meg’s intelligence??

Also lmao I’m going to miss James.

Re: Howard saying ‘I’m not going to get insulted by a man wearing a dress’ .. UMMM Starz, you do know that just thirty years ago men were prancing about in dresses and leggings (essentially). From around the middle of the 14th century to the beggining of 16th century (if not earlier), Englishmen were also essentially prancing about in ‘skirts’.

Am I getting a weird cooperation-partnership vibe between Meg and James?

The Battle:

Charlotte Hope looks so good with the helmet, she’d really suit an english hood! Such a shame they won’t give her one!

Ewwww he’s eating mud, why?

Just standard battle scene. They are all the same to me no matter which movie.

Aftermath:

Jesus, I find the whole Meg crying over James IV so heartfelt ‘you arrogant bastard�� for some reason just came out so full of emotion. Can someone please explain why the hell I ship them more than Henry x Catherine?? Like how ??

Awwww Linna is sooooo adorable ughhh. Also this whole Catherine going into armour among all the women crooning over the children gives this adorable sense of Catherine boyish and bloodying herself out to protect their peace, idk. All I have to say is that these series is less eager to pitt women against each other than the previous. I think that’s a step forwards.

Also, good to see Catherine being modest about her victory so Henry can save face. Finally starting to seem like the real Catherine.

‘Go on you dog’ arghh ahah he sounds like some public school rugby lad egging his mate on.

Re: Wolsey cock-blocker; the real Catherine would know it was uncatholic to have sex when you were pregnant. Also Catherine is not technically speaking in confinement if she’s wandering about.

It’s nice to see Catherine sticking up for Howard, she at least learned to respect him during the battle.

I foresee Oviedo having enough of this Christian stuff and wanting to return to the berber domains (I suppose Spain is out of the question)

Knighting Ceremony:

Apparently Margaret Pole herself was made Countess of Salisbury during this same ceremony... right? @houseofclarence

Also Maggie Pole being like: “being a rebel is in my blood, or so they tell me”... gahhh what’s with these shows and the Clarence erasure? Can’t they make one bloody reference to her dad or grandad Warwick? Ugh. Especially with lines like this. Actually? You know what? Ignore my previous comment about the stoic remark and it being an ironic reference to Clarence. I put such subtlety above this show’s writers.

Catherine has a habit of going to the coldest places possible to lose her children...

Haha @ Henry asking Bessie Blount (of all people) where Catherine is.

Conclusion:

6/10

What I’m happiest about is that Flodden got dealt with in one episode because warrior xena Catherine is not what interests me most about this show. Having said that, it was a true shame that James IV died because his were some of the best scenes. This whole show is starting to feel so historical fantasy-ish because the aesthetics are so confused. Granted it’s still pretty (not eyesore like Reign) but it doesn’t penetrate.

I am as always invested in the Poles (and More) but am also starting to get attached to Princess Mary whose actress exudes plenty of charm. This show remains confused with its feminist message because while it shows women being proactive there is so much emphasis on babies that what remains with the mind after watching is this womanish birthdrama, as opposed to a show about struggles which affect both genders.

You might tut at me and say I’m being ridiculous and that it is historically accurate to put so much emphasis on women’s babies and I say that’s swell. I would happily watch a show where that element is strong (most pre 1995 historical dramas are like that with traditionally feminine characters and I gulp them up like sustenance), but if a show promises feminism and women-men being partners I want it to deliver that properly. As I said in my previous post, why do we keep trying to make women engage in acts like war as if such an abhorrent act is the only way to take them seriously? I await the day where cunning, rationality and cool-headedness will be the traits portrayed as feminist ones.

There is nothing else to really comment on... the only potentially deeper message in this is the gender discourse. I am unsure about the accuracy so I can’t speak of the historical value of the interpretation. But what I will say is that though I remain excited for each new episode... I’m just not as invested as I was in TWQ (rewatch every year dont @ me) or TWP despite their many flaws. Some characters pull me in eg Maggie Pole (Carmichael is a bae), Thomas More etc but not the whole cast like TWQ. Anyway... would be interesting to see if anything happens with Lina and Oviedo tommorow as their storyline is conspicuously slow.