#i say this as a victim of incest (kind of. i still dont know how to define it tbh)

[aarghstop]

frustrated by how much of the one piece shipping community is proship 😭. in what world is shipping brothers cute.. or shipping a grown adult and a teenager.

i can maybe understand if ur proship because it helps u heal from trauma?? because i also have a lot of trauma . and i dont wanna knock people's coping methods. but if ur just proship because u think the weird ass ship is cute?? damn.. thats gross..

[pawberri]

ok, so i just saw an anti-dni post talking about how having a dni list in bio is purposeless and annoying since it is like a 'holding a sign saying "do not kick me." ' now, i find that perspective objectionable (since obtaining a block list might be what is desired anyways and not all dni reasons have to be extremely polarizing, e.g., i dont think a minors dni will suddenly make a billion minors annoyed, making them interact w/ you immediatly) and i have a slight feeling that you disagree with that point of view too because uhhhhh.

so what i wanted to know was whether you share the same reasons to oppose that perspective, and, if not, then, what are they?

I have been getting really annoyed with the backlash to dnis... I think it's goofy when some person has a dni with a million things, but it feels reactionary to me to say "it makes no sense for you to put your boundaries and expect people to follow them." There's especially this vibe with people who post more extreme content getting mad at dnis. I think that's weird. Partially, people seem to take them as like... a sign of moral superiority or hatred... rather than just a little bit of clarity on boundaries. These people talk about "curating your online space" but have to make these posts ranting about people who do it in a way they dislike. I especially think it's dumb to say, "Just block me, why do I have to not interact with you?" because... I mean, you can't block someone you don't know exists. It's meant to be a preemptive expression of boundaries, so the other party has the chance to block you and / or just not interact.

I know that, in practice, some people have really silly, long dnis that are linked on some weird carrd that takes forever to read. I don't think it's fair to strawman the concept of expressing some of your boundaries online in a digestible format as being stupid because of that, though. Especially when a lot of the people with silly dnis are teenagers just trying to figure their life out. They'll grow out of it. It's fine.

I also think it's weird and victim blame-y to say people will naturally be harassed if they give any kind of indication of their boundaries. I sometimes get mean anons, but for the most part, my experience online is way better because I am upfront about things. I don't get too personal or say things I'm uncomfortable sharing, but I make my boundaries clear. Even when I was a teenager and getting harassed by redditors, I never had stuff I asked to be trigger tagged used against me like people fearmonger about. (I'm sure it can happen, but I think that for most people, it just results in their social circle tagging stuff for them.) Even if that did happen, I think it would cruel to say that it was my fault for daring to express a boundary. If you kick the guy who says "do not kick me", you're still being bully and a contrarian asshole. Even if I didn't express a boundary, people like that would likely harass me. If I don't express a boundary for the sake of avoiding harassment, I get in exchange an audience that will constantly be shocked and fight with me about my beliefs when they show. Then, that creates either an unpredictable level of harassment or the feeling of being harassed because I'm constantly in discourse with my followers. At best I feel miserable and hate interacting with my followers.

I think this partially comes from people who are afraid to express their boundaries for fear of backlash (ie they want to make extreme content but fear saying so will make their followers mad), but honestly I think being straight forward makes your audience more curated. The people I see who post extreme content and are clear about it seem to have an easier time than people who build an audience of a bunch of unsuspecting people and then slowly introduce untagged incest kink or something. Not saying it's a guaranteed anti-harassment tool, but I don't understand the impulse to warn for nothing and have no clear boundaries with your audience, then get mad you curated the audience you curated. I hope it doesn't come across as me victim-blaming in the opposite direction, I don't think anyone deserves harassment regardless of if I disagree with what they post online. I kind of just mean to illustrate a counter example to the idea of the dni-haver making themself a target or inherently Being A Harasser.

[rukafais]

the reason i got angry is because i am a victim of abuse. seeing a post saying not tagging incest isnt a real problem was upsetting. and seeing you and your followers laugh about how incest is "meaningless random shit" is disgusting. survivors of csa exist and our abuse happened in the real world we also dont want to see it trivialized and laughed at online

Anon, quite literally, I'm not saying tagging incest doesn't matter and I'm well aware survivors of csa exist. I would, in fact, vastly prefer it if that kind of content was always tagged correctly because I also don't want to see it? I just don't think starting entire-ass campaigns on people for not tagging it is a solution to this literally at all and that energy could be better spent elsewhere, which was how I interpreted the post using that as a random example and I didn't feel using that specific example detracted from the overall message of the post.

Not everyone knows how to tag correctly or even that tags exist for more than archiving on your own blog. I think certainly they should be corrected if they're using it incorrectly, for everyone's ease of use and peace of mind (including yours), but if they're being an asshole I also don't think yelling at them a lot is going to do much either (which is unfortunate).

Also like you can just say you're mad about it because you don't like incest and you don't want to see it. That's also a valid reason? You really don't have to be like "actually i am a victim and a csa survivor", you don't need to be like, here is my trauma card so you will take my complaints seriously.

Also, like, I don't like it when you assume that I'm totally super duper into a thing or I never want it tagged based on a single post. You jumped straight to the conclusion of "this person SUPPORTS THE THING I HATE" which is uh, not really a good conversation starter? Like, I get it, but it's still disconcerting.

[twist3dserenity]

hello, I am a darkshipper/Proshipper. I saw your post asking about proshipping and I'd be glad to share my experiences and thoughts with your questions. (Please mind I tend to ramble a lot so excuse me for that if my message it's too long) So, to answer your questions;

---

1... What does proshipping (other associated label) mean to you? What do you think proshipping means/is about?

For me, Proshipping means: Anti harrasment/In favor of problematic ships or media. I believe any kind of ship or media, including problematic ones, should be allowed to exist solely inside fiction and only fiction.

Us prosshippers mind our own business, we might not like certain tropes but the deal is that we won't go our way to harass the ones who make those certain tropes we don't like. Its simple as that. Proship is a stance, not dark shipping or comshipping, just a stance/belief. Not the shipping itself.

Also a common myth told by antis is that, "Proshippers DONT believe fiction affects reality!!"- this isn't true at all. Proshippers DO believe fiction affect reality but not on a 1:1 scale. (To put it simply: fiction can affect reality ONLY if you don't know how differentiate both things. Meaning, if you don't know the difference between fiction and reality, of course it's gonna affect you and the way you think..)

Us proshippers don't condone this fictional problematic stuff in Real life. we just understand how fiction works as an outlet and a space for fun and whimsy and joy for those who are excited about their favorite tropes. As long as they don't harm anyone IN REAL LIFE, why should we go after them...?

and now, for Darkship or "Darkshipping" it's obvious definition means, extremely problematic and taboo things that'd be considered illegal in real life. Including, incest, minor x adult, abuse x victim (toxic relationships), etc. However, this tropes are obviously just meant to stay in fictional settings whether its for an outlet or simply exploring dark media and I don't agree with these tropes IN REAL LIFE.

--

2. (If comfortable going into detail) why do you believe in this label / What lead you to this belief?

I believe in the proship label because it makes a lot of sense to me. I understand if people tend to get disgusted by problematic pairings but I don't find it reasonable to go after those people who make those certain pairings (like antis). However, if that person who makes those certain pairings DID harm a REAL child or person, then I would understand coming after them.

But aside of all that, I've never understood this logic that <just because you indulge in a certain "trope" you immediately are "supporting" that trope in real life!!> (like antis think). That's like saying playing violent games immediately makes you a killer💀🙏

I was never an anti to begin with, i tried to act like anti and their mindset but it never felt logical to me. I didn't know about this ideology of proshipping until much later, and ever since then, I sticked with it.

And for Darkshipping, I found out about this label after I realized my whole entire life (since I've been in fandoms) I've been shipping yandere x victim tropes, one sided-obsession, stalker x victim, etc. (YES and I still do), and when I realized how much it matched the darkshipping definition, I came into terms that I indeed, had "problematic interests". Obviously in fictional setting.

The main reason I decided to stick with this label it's because I simply just felt like it connected to me. I darkship because I use it as a coping mechanism.

--

3. did you use to be an anti? How did the controversy surrounding this belief affect you personally?

like I said before, no. I never was anti to begin with. Yes, I did try to adapt to their mindset and all, but deep down it just felt wrong and never understood the logic behind it. This belief led me to feel a lot of low self esteem and shame to myself because I geniunely believed their words that <"I was supporting these things in real life and that I am a bad person for it and should go to hell for it"> It's really much, in my own experience, a toxic mindset.

It affected me because Darkshipping it's my way of coping. Not everyone has the same coping mechanisms, but Darkshipping truly has helped be aware of my own trauma and how to deal with it... it's hard to explain cause I don't wanna go to detail about it.. but for a long time It just felt so wrong because of the amount of anti ideology I was surrounded with, I geniunly thought i was a bad person.

--

4. Has being a proshipper positively affected your life? Or so, how?

Yes, both proshipping and darkshipping.

Proshipping because their stance and belief of fiction just feels like less judgemental and less toxic. (Yes we have to be aware that some people who use the proship idelogy in the proship community, will use it to be creeps, but there's also creeps in the anti community. ) and there's barely any proshippers like that. We just see fiction as a space for freedom and not as a space for purity and whatever antis want it to be.

Darkshipping, has helped me a lot positively. This answer might be controversial and that's fine if ppl don't agree with it, but it's my TRAUMA and my FEELINGS and nobody has the right to tell me how to cope with it. I have a therapist and she agrees with my ways of coping.

As someone who used to be in both sides of a toxic relation, I've learned how to treat others better and have healthy attachments, and how to let others treat me better and have self-respect with myself. Darkshipping is both an outlet and way of realizing things about my trauma. And Proshipping is simply a stance I totally stand by it.

It has helped my mental health and the way I see myself better, because I know it's just a way cope and nothing else. After all, I keep it to myself, it's fiction, and I have common sense to differentiate both reality and fiction.

Thats all I wanted to say, thanks for listening to my yaps, I hope this clarified things better, English is not my first language and stuff. So, yeah, bye bye and stay strong 👋👋

thank you for sharing your experience with me! So far all these responses I’ve been receiving here have been so enlightening and educational for me and I’m honestly glad I was able to learn more about it.

i wish you luck on your future endeavors!

[silvermoonshipping-is-love]

previous anon here! its absolutely understandable why you feel that way, especially since i noticed you were here during the creepypasta fandom recession era (2016-2019), where people were starting to police what was the right and wrong way to intepret the pastas.

As for the drownedsilver hate, while i cant confirm for sure it was the source, was primarily started by a pokepasta fnf community member who has been recently outed as a creep and a generally terrible person (who called any ship they disliked proship!!) 😭 they had an iron grip over that community for 2 years, hence why so many people were dogpiling! Now that they're gone, i see more people being comfortable with putting out drowndsliver content out there!

I dont know if this information or acknowledgement will eleveate your anxiety. But i hope you gain the courage to post more about your own intepretations of ben and silver 🫂 You shouldnt feel like you have to appease a wider public to enjoy what you love.

My favourite example is the fact that say Ben HAD to be a pervert or a stoner and an asshole, nevermind the fact he's a deeply traumatized child, stuck in a video game and canonly a pacifist and not (intentionally) hurting anybody, like that is fine, but GOD FORBID you make EJ's skin slightly blue-ish to go with his overall colour palette. But also god forbid if you draw or write anything messed up or more mature in whatever way?? If anything the creepypasta fandom of all things being so strict is so odd, most characters don't have a fully set personality or the fact that all kinds of awful shit happens to them, especially CHILDREN, but wanting to draw two characters smooching? Now you've gone too far lmao.

Policing fandoms and fandom activity is a rising trend and I'm not happy about it as a "fandom old" so to speak lol. My motto is unless you are genuinely harming someone in real life or crossing someone's boundaries, just tag it correctly, and you do you. I may not like everything you do personally, but unless you are actively interfering with me or trying to harm me or others, whatever.

Also I was never in the community fully due to the incident and the hate towards SilvernMoon, so I never heard about this person. But unfortunately I'm not even that shocked, if you're that adamant about how wholesome or pure or unproblematic you are and everyone has to be, then you just seem all the more likely to have some skeletons so to speak. Just a real shame about my one FNF AU, cause it's sort of a personal one to me, cause of venting and feelings depicted.

If you mean creep as I think you do, I hope the victims are okay now.

But on the flip side I also eventually thought the fnf community are hypocrites anyways. Cause I saw all the hate for SilvernMoon while not even say incest stuff got as much hate in all my fandom years, yet the very person most of the community shipped Silver with? Red. The Red from his story. The same Red that is the whole reason Silver is forgotten and dead! I don't want to fully ship-shame, I just wanna showcase the irony, like- THAT is fine but SilvernMoon is wrong?? SilvernMoon out of all ships I ever saw is the one people drew the line at and hated the absolute shit out of???

Also there was a similar person over here in the regular creepypasta fandom that dogpiled on me as a minor, so that added, who called me a pdf file because I portray these characters as adults and made a more adult joke, but they INSISTED every version of Ben had to be 12 years old. Gurl, I don't know how to tell you, but the ghost kid that haunts a Nintendo Cartridge... He's not real, his whole concept as a cyber ghost isn't real. I know it's shocking to hear, you may sit down from that, but it's the truth.

I am getting better but it still feels like a long road to fully heal and say "fuck the haters"... I keep trying to even do youtube or stuff, but all this is holding me back pretty strongly-

[perenlop]

Sending another warrior bc of warriors brainrot but how about breezepelt?

sorry this is so late xmx i had this open in a tab and forgot about it

sexuality headcanon: hmmm idk tbh. i'll go with bi ace but he doesnt know it yet

gender/pronouns headcanon: nonbinary but also doesnt know it so goes by he/him for now but will eventually be comfortable w he/she/they

rate them out of ten: it has been a hot minute. i'm gonna go with like a 6 or 7 because the discourse about him is exhausting but also fans are not normal abt him so i kinda feel inclined to like him out of spite.

favorite thing about them: can't tell if this should technically be a bad thing because the erins absolutely wrote him the way they did to be like "oh look how much WORSE crowfeathers life is. dont you wish he was present in the three's lives and still with leafpool?? they arent as annoying as him!" but i do like that he's an unconventional abuse victim. like in fiction, authors like to portray abuse victims as only quiet and meek. which like, those people exist in real life so that's not an issue, per say, but people are VERY quick to suddenly say that a child deserves to be abused if that kid lashes out instead. so, personally i like breezepelt for defying that, but at the same time it wasn't meant to be subversive so like, fuck you erin hunter im stealing him

least favorite thing about them: uhhh kinda the above, its like a double edged sword.

why i first started liking/disliking them: it was half the scene where they say that no one in windclan likes him because. uh oh thats me. and half spite

do i relate/project onto/kin them?: sort of. i kind of understand the sheer rage he feels because of how he's treated in windclan even if its not seen as a "big deal", tho not to a murderous degree obviously. i also understand being seen as the obnoxious kid that no one likes and everyone thinks hes a baby that complains, and people saying that they're glad that he's gone because they think he's exhausting. like. uh oh family and school memories flooding back. dont relate to the dad issues tho

favorite quote/moment: not much comes to mind, hes just kind of a sad character so it feels weird to pick one. ig the scene where brokenstar manipulates him bc its a good representation of how fucked up he's become

my fav ship: idk tbh. ive seen breezeblossom get thrown around but i dont really like blossomfall that much tbh. which one of his ships gets the most vitriol (without age gaps or incest)? bc i wanna do that one to be funny

my fav platonic friendship idk how i feel abt breezeheather but i do at least like em as friends. im fine either way w them tho

a ship i hate: not much comes to mind

do i prefer canon or fanon?: well fanon is kinda weird so ig canon idk. i like the version of him in my head ig?

random headcanon:

what color do i picture them as: orange is what i associate, otherwise he's pitch black

cat breed headcanon: oriental cat

unpopular opinion: honestly i don't know why people take him trying to kill poppyfrost as like an end all thing to saying hes a bad character and not someone you should "side with" over crowfeather. like, i do know why but like this is the murder cat book. most of them kill. the book acts like its both scary and epic. like why are you mocking shadowclan and calling them stupid for mourning russetfur's death at lionblaze's hand after thunderclan invaded them and also clutching your pearls over this? when is it ok to kill in this society? and its also an outlandish action not grounded in reality, while crow's neglect hits closer to home. also breeze is a villain at that point lol hes supposed to do fucked up shit while crow's neglect is painted as misunderstood and uwu sad for him at the end of the day. so yeah i do think its fucked that he did that, but at the same time yeah im not gonna "side with crowfeather" and say he deserved the neglect over it. wtf

[magnoliamyrrh]

just in case i don’t want to talk abt this any more tw incest u could just delete this

horrific n downright wrong. i wanna say u n everyone else includin that anon did not deserve this n the collective u deserves so much more but i am so grateful seein people talk abt this. i was raised w the extreme pressure that my gen was goin to break the cycle of that type of abuse n i have to come to terms that we didn’t n that’s ok at least to me. it’s so hard to admit to n so impactful to say out loud but it’s what has to b done. it a type of trauma that’s been in my fam for many many yrs n i gaslight myself into believin that we broke it. i stayed in denial n tbh still am in denial bcuz it’s so hard to blame a fam member. esp for me a girl n a teenage girl at that. this isn’t always the universal reaction so there is no guilt if this isn’t the case or if it is but u still luv them no matter what they did it’s so hard to blame them. but sexual abuse is sexual abuse. i hope to god every day that when i have children that will b when the cycle is broken n it all stops but i will never put the verbal pressure on them the way my parents did. one of them was a victim of smthn v extreme so i do not blame them (there it is again) but it’s torture to feel like u let them down when u did nothin wrong. admitting is always the first step to healin. i’m so proud of u for talkin abt this n that anon n everyone else.

ya! i think even though its uncomfortable as hell and disturbing its important that we talk about it. thank you <3 im proud of everyone who pitched in too, and of you, thank u for sharing; its really not easy. i dont think this is the sort of thing we can heal from individually, you know? especially when its a cultural thing. theres so much shame and fear and repression surrounding this kind of stuff, and the only way were gonna heal from it is if, like u said, well start accepting it and talking about it

and yea youre right it is really hard. like my father crossed any possible line with what he did and he abuses his wife too and. i really just want him dead like i dont give a damn, i have to try to calm myself bc i get too focused sometimes on how much i actually want him to suffer. but even with him at times im like,,,, ,, eh but i still care abt him? i went through a whole phase where i felt like it was my responsabilites to help him or like heal him from how deranged he is lmao. but it doesnt last long. but with everyone else its different. (?) like. i realized like idk a year ago that uh yea my grandma did lowkey molest me and it actually made me feel fucking insane. i had no idea what do with it and i still dont?? and its fucked and definitely not ok but like...,,, we all pretend like its fine or just didnt happen i guess bc its,, normal? acceptable??? its weird as all hell, most of the time i just kinda try to not think abt it because i have no idea how to even feel abt the woman when i do. if anything as much as it definitely kinda fucked me up, im frankly way more pissed abt the physical abuse/beatings and endless insults and yelling and shit - like that actually probably did more damage to me. but still like idk yea i .. idk if i excuse it but i definitely explain it like oh she didnt know better etc etc etc. but that doesnt.. ugh it doesnt excuse it?? but i still love her and care for her?? its a fucking nightmare to try to detangle all that. and the shit w my mom too and other family members like uh yea it grosses me out and definitely got to me, this combination of being raised as property + controlling parents + sexualized + actually being whored out by father has k.o.d whatever mental sanity i could have had and it took me many years to.... idk. even start remotely working through all that. but. i still care abt them...?? i think the fact that its no longer happening and dont rly consider it on the same level as the shit w my dad makes it kinda different in my head but its still not fucking ok

and yea. definitely one of the hardest parts of it is being blamed for being uncomfortable/grossed out or even punished for being so when rly thats such a normal reaction to have to this shit. it is psychologically torturous and it is gaslighting and it rly fucks u up in the head..... and its really hard to get to the point where u dont feel like u did anything wrong or you werent to blame. i do presume that w this particular kind of shit tho a lot of it is that they probably went through similar stuff, internalized and repressed it, never dealt w it, and then just proceed to do the same

i hope to god too ill be different. i want to believe in both of us and this new generation that we'll do a better job. i think the fact that were even talking abt it shows some progress u kno. my mother and grandmother told me for many years that i wont do a better job than them and its just normal for kids to be raised w beatings and yelling and insults and controlling behavior and all that shit,,,, but. ive always been terrified of that. since i was little i knew if i ever had a kid i wouldnt want to put them through any of this. if i cant break the cycle id rather not raise a kid at all. at least for the past like year or two my mother has actually accepted that some of the shit she did wasnt okay and that she was abused by my grandmother too and..... apologized??? which was insane. so. idk. its been a long and weird fucking process. but. i dont think its hopeless

[hopeididntscareyou]

Even though Liz would talk shit about me, I dont agree with everything she says. I'm not going to let other people get in the way of my relationships anymore. Listening to other peoples opinions just making me feel hateful and also making me a terrible person for being always on defensive mode. Deep down, i'm a very loyal and genuine person. I believe in true love even in this day and age where people are either manipulators and too traumatized to trust others. I am someone who would go lengths to show how i care about someone without losing myself. I dont care about all these labels and games that people play. As long as I stay healthy mentally, emotionally and physically, then nothing can destroy me. I only follow my own philosophy.

I find it saddening how people would believe whatever bullshit they see on tiktok/youtube rather than learning things from real life experience. People need to understand that these content creators are mainly trying to make money. They have that goal thats why they stir drama from reddit or 4chan extremists. Their ideas dont reflect the entire population IRL. They make money by grabbing your attention, brainwashing you and being their followers. Don't you see how out of touch with reality that looks like? if that doesn't sound crazy and cult-like to you, then i don't know what to tell you. I admit though, I was also a victim of this for awhile, but in my entire life I realized, the only times I have really learned about life was from my own experiences, and going outside and engaging with people who are passionate about their work that they dont even have time for the internet- usually older people from all walks of life. Thats where I got real wisdom. Its never really been from the internet. The thing is you could spend your precious time consuming self improvement material from youtube or reddit and even a book but it wouldn't actually improve your life whatsoever because you spent your time being a follower of someone else's ideas than having your own path. To be honest, all self improvement books/videos I've seen are just mostly common sense that I already knew and had been doing because I came up with these ideas on my own. It's really not that hard to give yourself a quiet time to sit and think solutions for your own problems. I believe it is more important to create more than to consume. Nowadays, internet is full of retarded and braindead people wired by quick dopamine. Its not the same as early 2000s and mid 2010s where internet stuff was obscure. Its been decades since the invention of the internet. It is not the age of the internet anymore but the age of algorithm. I stopped consuming internet as much as possible because of two things; one - the internet is full of fake news, misinformation and propagandas. Two - it is the source of distraction with its unlimited entertainment. I only use internet as an online tool for conveniency to keep up with the digital world; mainly using google maps, QR codes, storage, work or legit educational priorities.

And honestly, i can tell a lot about person based on their internet activities that its probably my main criteria now when judging a person as first impression. If you're a person who doom scrolls on short videos/reels regardless of the content, then I would assume you spend your spare time as a consumer than a creator and that alone would tell me what kind of person you are.

In an unrelated note, I'm still coming into terms about my sexuality because I can't quite figure out if i am really indeed an asexual or not. I feel extremely grossed out with the idea of sex with people I have a romantic relationship with. It just feels so wrong, like it makes me feel like i'm engaging in incest kind of wrong to me. I do however like sharing intimate moments and romance like hugging touching cuddling and kissing but sex is just repulsive and disgusting to me. I think its partly because of my trauma from watching depraved and disturbing porn for sickfucks, that definitely is a fact. But i also should admit that I have been sexually attracted before and I would consider myself as sexually active because I masturbate an average of 3x a week to 5x in just one day. The problem arise whenever I'm dating/seeing someone because i completely lose my interest in anything sexual all of a sudden and I would even stop masturbating. I don't know, its fucking weird. I cant count how many times i forced myself to be in the mood while someone is kissing me and touching me, but it just doesn't work, and I hate that when that happens because it makes me hate sex entirely and apathetic with someone. Like i don't even care if my partner would do it with other women just because he cant have sex with me. I literally don't care. Honestly, I am not really a jealous person and I can handle things well as long as I'm not bored. Sex is not a massive issue to me entirely at all. Fortunately i never had a problem about this with most guys except one time. But in general, the guys i chose to date were good natured individuals that i shared the same values with. So contrary to the popular belief, no I am not a raging feminazi who hates men. Thats incorrect and its funny how my friends would say i hate men just because i don't put up with trashy behaviors. You'd think people who are close to me would know me better, but surprise surprise. Sometimes its just not really easy to get to know someone on a deeper level. You could know someone for years without knowing anything about them. Not all people are open books, and honestly I dont care enough to change how people perceive me. You can think whatever you want about me and I'm still going to live my reality

[calebwittebane]

its impossible to talk about being a survivor of incest with anyone except other survivors of it and by that i mean youll still find lots of people among them with 0 compassion who project their internalized victim-blaming and self-loathing onto others as a coping mechanism. its impossible to have any kind of constructive discourse about it openly because everyones so focused on loudly projecting their personal opinion on What Should Be Done and how disgusted they are and whatever cospiracy theory is trending this time. everyone wants to punish offenders and no one wants to listen to survivors, because its easier to sound like a tough guy being Hard On The Bad People than it is to show empathy and listen even if its difficult and contradicts what youve been made to believe. the preferable state of things for the general public is Never Talk About It. shooting squad for the messenger. to say that the legal system is no help is such an understatement, most of us dont even begin to think about bringing it into the situation in the first place. we're too busy surviving and being so fucking alone and made to feel absolutely crazy 24/7 and understanding that if you even try to open up a little too much youll be shunned by people you thought you could trust. in the end youre just left apologizing to people for being such a bummer all the time. or you try not to be and you feel like a wild animal performing for an audience that would have you put down if you stopped being entertaining. everyone and their mother seems to have an opinion on what youve been through and topics related to it like its a pineapple on pizza type debate. like they dont have to know anything, like theres nothing to know. to them its so simple: some people are bad and do bad things and what matters is punishing those bad people and what also matters is their potential future victims we have successfully protected by doing so. it doesnt matter that most of those bad people are made up, and the real specific ones that are brought up dont even constitute 1% of the actual offenders. and what especially doesn't matter is the existing victims. especially the adult victims. the adult victims who cant get a job, who are unstable, who dont even know how to talk about their experiences, who aren't able to just valiantly hide everything and then go to therapy once a week and cry their eyes out. the adult victims who want to talk about their experiences but no one wants them to. the adult victims you cant hold and pity and lament how small and defenseless they are, because to see the smallness and defenselessness youd have to look past the grown adult in front of you and this just doesnt have the pathos. this is just a pathetic weirdo who needs to grow up. a pathetic weirdo whos so joyless and potentially dangerous for being critical of the construct of The Family, who just wants to be miserable, who has ideas and thought processes and experiences no one wants to hear about. whos probably making it all up anyway. i mean they didn't talk about it for so long. they spent painful decades sleepwalking through life and pushing everything into a small dusty corner of their mind and cut themselves into smaller pieces every day all so they could avoid ruining everyones fun, everyones family photos, everyones memories, everyones day, everyones mood. they made it up for attention.

[uncloseted]

there's a part of me that still thinksa bortion is murder. i act like i support it to fit in but deep down i dont. please just listen. i think forcing someone to go through a pregnagncy they don't want is inhuman but it also feels inhuman to kill a baby and i dont like thsi idea that if youre 4 weeks pregnant and you want it its a baby but if youre 4 week pregnant and dont want it then its just a clump of cells thats just not how scence works. so theres this woman who was forced to get an .

Anonymous asked:

abortion and she was 6 months pregnant and apparently th baby waws born alive but it died shortly after from ashpyxia and i just dont know what to think. i know forcing smeone to get an abortion is just as bad as forcing them to give birth and that theres no such thing as a six month abortion and at least wher e i live abortions are only available until week 14 but like wwhat if someone is 15 or 16 weeks or 7 months, do they not have a choice anymore? please dont think im a bigot im not im so

Anonymous asked:

sorry i just dont want to be brainwashed by ANYONE, pro life or pro choice and im just so easily influenceable i just want to support whats right you know

No worries at all! I don't think you're a bigot and I'm glad that you want to engage with this issue critically. I'm happy to give you the facts as they stand and offer you my perspective on the issue. Apologies in advance that this is a bit long, but please try to stick with me until the end! All of this is important in understanding the different sides of this discussion.

There are a few main categories I want to talk about in this answer: legal, science, politics, and culture. For now, I'm going to avoid delving into any religious or metaphysical questions about what is and isn't considered "a person", since while those conversations are interesting, I don't think they're particularly useful in the context of discussions about abortion. As Harry Blackmun wrote in the court opinion for Roe v. Wade, "we need not resolve the difficult question of when life begins. When those trained in the respective disciplines of medicine, philosophy, and theology are unable to arrive at any consensus, the judiciary, at this point in the development of man's knowledge, is not in a position to speculate."

Legality

Starting with legal issues, there are a few points I think it's important to make in order to get a sense of how we relate to abortion. Abortions are legal in 98% of countries. 34% of countries, including the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand most European countries, and China, allow abortions on the basis of a the pregnant person's request, without needing to prove that there is risk to life, risk to health, risk to the fetus, economic or social reasons that abortion is a necessity, or extenuating circumstances (such as the pregnancy being a product of rape or incest). The vast majority (93%) of countries with highly restrictive abortion laws, such as outlawing abortion except in cases where the pregnant person is endangered, are in developing regions. There are five countries that completely outlaw abortion. These are: Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Malta, Nicaragua, and the Vatican City, all countries where the Catholic church has significant influence.

Of the countries that do allow abortion, there is always a limit on how far into a pregnancy a person can be when they choose to terminate. Beyond that limit, the person doesn't have a choice anymore, and must carry the pregnancy to term (except in extenuating circumstances). The most common limit is 12 weeks (3 months), although some countries allow abortion up to the point of "viability", where the fetus can live outside the mother's womb with artificial aid. Typically, the point of viability is around 24 weeks (6 months). In the US, 87% of abortions are performed before 12 weeks, and 92.2% were performed at 13 weeks or fewer. For reference, pregnancies are typically around 40 weeks long.

Forced abortion is illegal in almost every country, including the US and the UK, and it is considered an act of violence against women. It is just as bad as forcing someone to give birth, which is why all countries do their best to prevent it from happening. While forced abortions can and do happen, particularly to victims of sex trafficking, I think the solution to this issue is to put policies into place that protect vulnerable women, instead of trying to ban abortion entirely.

Science

So, most countries allow abortions up to 12 weeks. What does that actually look like in terms of the fetus? Here's a timeline of fetal stages of growth:

Weeks 1-4: at this stage, the "baby" is actually an embryo. It starts out as just a fertilized egg. The amniotic sac forms around it, and the placenta develops. The eyes, mouth, lower jaw, and throat are in very early development. Blood cells are taking shape. By the end of week 4, the embryo is smaller than a grain of rice. It is very literally "just a clump of cells" at this point.

Weeks 5-9: the "baby" is still an embryo. Its facial features begin to develop, folds of skin that will eventually become ears grow, tiny buds that will eventually grow into arms and legs form, the neural tube, digestive tract, and sensory organs all begin to develop. Bone starts to replace cartilage. At about 6 weeks, a heart beat can be detected. After week 8, the baby is considered a fetus instead of an embryo, at which point the fetus is about one inch long.

Weeks 9-12: the fetus' arms, hands, fingers, feet, and toes are fully formed. It may be able to open and close its fists and mouth. Ears are formed, and its reproductive organs begin to develop. By the end of week 12, the fetus has all of their organs and limbs, and their circulatory and urinary systems are working, but everything needs to continue to develop in order to become functional. At the end of week 12, the fetus is about 4 inches long.

It is important to know that the miscarriage rate is highest in the first trimester (before week 12). Among women who know they're pregnant (typically further along than 6 or 7 weeks), 10-20% will miscarry. 30%-50% of all fertilized eggs miscarry.

Other important developmental markers include:

During month 4 (weeks 16-20), you can see the sex of the fetus.

During month 5 (weeks 20-24), the fetus starts moving around.

Between week 22 and week 24, brain waves appear in the cerebral cortex.

At week 24, the fetus may be able to survive if it is born prematurely, provided it has intensive care.

Somewhere between week 26 and week 30, the fetus may be able to feel pain, although we don't know that for sure.

A fetus is not capable of thinking, communicating, reasoning, self-motivation, feeling emotions, or consciousness. They don't have a concept of the self, and they don't know that they exist. They are essentially sedated for the entirety of the pregnancy. Since we use "brain death" as the primary criteria for death, it makes sense to me that we might consider "brain life" (the point where a fetus exhibits brain activity) as the point at which a fetus becomes a person.

While some people will refer to an embryo as a "baby" from the time they discover they're pregnant, scientifically, it is a clump of cells, whether that clump is allowed to continue to grow or not. It's not something we would recognize as a baby, or be able to interact with as if it were a baby. An embryo is a precursor to a baby, kind of like how a seed is a precursor to a plant.

Some other arguments

I want to quickly touch on some other arguments for abortion rights that people make. I'm not going to delve deeply into them, but it didn't feel right to leave them out entirely. These are arguments that don't depend on whether or not a fetus can be considered a person.

Bodily Rights

There are many situations in which we prioritize individual bodily rights over the right of someone else to live. For example, we don't force people to donate organs to people who are dying, even though a donated organ would save their life. Advocates for abortion rights argue that those same bodily rights should be extended to a pregnant person.

Deprivation

This argument usually looks something like, "but what if that fetus was going to cure cancer when it grew up!" Basically, it's saying that abortion is morally wrong because it deprives the fetus (and the world) of a valuable future. To me, this completely ignores the deprivation that already exists by forcing a person to carry and birth a baby they don't want, and potentially the deprivation that comes with raising that child. People who make this argument never seem to ask, "what if the pregnant person was going to cure cancer?"

Slippery Slope

Some people argue that normalizing and legalizing abortion may lead to people also accepting euthanasia. I am unconvinced by this for two reasons. 1. Slippery slope is a logical fallacy and 2. I absolutely do think we should legalize euthanasia for certain situations.

Religion

I don't want to dig too far into this one, but what I will say is that the US is a country that (at least nominally) has a separation of church and state, and the religious beliefs that other people hold should not infringe on a person's rights to make choices about their own life.

History and Politics

The practice of abortion itself is incredibly old. The Sanskrit epic Ramayana, which dates to the 7th century BCE, describes abortion being practiced by surgeons and barbers. In the Assyrian Code of Assura, circa 1075 BCE, a woman is allowed to procure an abortion except when it's against her husband's wishes. The first recorded evidence of induced abortion is from the Egyptian Ebers Papyrus in 1550 BCE. Japanese documents show records of induced abortion from as early as the 12th century, and it became more prevalent during the Edo period. It is considered to be unlikely that abortion was punished in Ancient Greece or ancient Rome. All major Jewish religious movements allow abortion in order to save the life or health of a pregnant woman, and often support abortion for other reasons as well. Christianity has a more complicated relationship to abortion, for reasons that I'll go into in a bit, but for now let's just note that there very much were ancient Christians who believed abortion was morally permissible at least some of the time. Before the 19th century CE, first-trimester abortion was widely practiced and was legal under common law throughout the English speaking world, including the US and UK.

The reason I bring all of this up is because the political debate over abortion isn't really that old, and the debate tends not to actually be about the morality of abortion as an act so much as it is a proxy for other issues. The first backlash against abortion in the English Speaking world was in the 19th century, and was a direct reaction to the women's rights movement, which was starting during that time. In the US, anti-abortion laws began to appear as early as the 1820s, but picked up in earnest by the late 1860s. These laws were introduced for many reasons, including the fact that abortions were being provided by untrained people who were not members of medical societies and concerns about the safety of abortifacients. By 1900, abortion was a felony in every US state, but they continued to become increasingly available. By the 1930s, licensed physicians performed an estimated 800,000 abortions a year.

Jumping forward a little bit, let's talk about the history of abortion in the US just before Roe v. Wade. It's estimated that in the 50s and 60s, between 200,000 to 1.2 million abortions were being performed per year, even though they were illegal. Throughout that same time, the second wave feminist movement was growing, and was increasingly advocating for birth control and liberalized abortion laws. As a reaction to second wave feminism, a number of anti-abortion organizations, primarily led by Catholic institutions, cropped up to mobilize against the legalization of abortion. It should be noted that, at the time, abortion was not an issue for evangelical Christian groups. In the 1960s, 17 states legalized abortion for a variety of different circumstances. Then in 1973, Roe v. Wade happens, ruling that a pregnant woman has the right to choose to have an abortion without excessive government restriction. The ruling was 7-2 in favor of legalizing abortion. Even after Roe v. Wade, Christian Evangelicals were neutral to positive on the ruling. It's only after 1980 that Evangelical Christians started to organize around abortion as a political issue and joined the Catholics to form what we now think of as the Christian Right. There's a lot to say about that and why that switch happened, but for the sake of brevity, just know that the evangelical backlash against legalized abortion in the US started not as a moral crusade, but as a way of convincing people to vote for Ronald Regan instead of Jimmy Carter (who wanted to de-segregate schools). No political debate happens in a vacuum, and it's important to understand what other factors might have been at play when looking at where these debates come from and how the sides formed.

Culture

Lastly, let's talk a little bit about the cultural impacts of banning or legalizing abortion. The right to have or not have a child is necessary in order for women to achieve equality with men. Countries with high gender equality, such as Iceland, Finland, Norway, New Zealand, and Sweden, also have easily accessible abortion options. Criminalization of abortion disproportionately impacts poor women and women of color, and does nothing to address the systemic issues that may cause them to require abortions in the first place.

Researchers from the WHO and University of Massachusetts found that banning abortion is an inefficient way to reduce abortion rates; in countries where abortions were restricted, the number of unintended pregnancies actually increased, and the proportion of unintended pregnancies ending in abortion also increased. When abortion is banned, women aren't not having abortions; they're having illegal abortions that are done unsafely.

There is also some evidence to suggest that legalized abortion actually decreases crime rates. 20 years after the legalization of abortion in the US, there was an unprecedented nationwide decline of the crime rate (including murders, incidentally). The drop in crime is thought by some to be a result of the fact that individuals who had a higher statistical probability of committing crimes (people who grew up as unwanted children in poverty) were not being born.

Which brings me to my next point- the majority of people who are "pro-life" (at least in the US) aren't really pro-life. They're pro-birth. If they were truly pro-life, they would be interested in making sure that all of those babies had their needs met after they're born. They would be interested in making sure those babies can lead long, healthy, safe, and productive lives. They would be for universal healthcare, expanded social safety nets, parental leave from jobs, universal basic income, raising the minimum wage, mandated vacation time, increasing funding for public schools, decriminalizing drugs, abolishing prisons or at least reforming the police. They would be against the death penalty (ironically, some of them are actually for the death penalty for women who have had abortions), and for increased access to birth control, comprehensive sex-ed in schools, increased gun legislation, against war and nuclear weapons, for enforced mask wearing to prevent people from needlessly dying from a global pandemic... but those issues don't factor into their "pro-life" stance. They're for "the baby gets born and then has to pull itself up by its bootstraps like the rest of us."

Closing Thoughts

Look. I'm not super jazzed about abortions. I understand how they can feel like an ethical issue. I think we should do what we can to reduce the number of abortions that are performed- teaching comprehensive sex-ed in schools, making birth control and emergency contraceptive options widely accessible, letting men know that reversible vasectomies are an option. I think we should make abortion easier to access, so those who do need it can make the decision early in the pregnancy. But I also think that it's a very personal decision, one that's irreversibly life altering, and the person who's going to experience the life altering event should be the one who decides what happens. 65 year old conservative, Christian white men who will never be pregnant (and frequently don't really know how the female body works) shouldn't get to make that decision for them. As someone for whom pregnancy would be life threatening, I want to know that I have options should that situation present itself someday.

[irkenheretic]

ok im acting a fool now this has nothing to do with your au at all (i know, big fail and not what u asked) But when u make writings of any kind, given the state of the fandom, do u ever feel like it’s WORTH posting (u can read that however u wanna)

or does it take a lot of convincing internally to get u to do so

(this ended up delving into some pretty dark topics like incest, rape, and ableism so uh just a forewarning so yall arent . blindsided by that)

i ask for Fun AU Content and i get Pain . Suffering, even. youre unvited to my birthday party 😭

but in all seriousness.... i don't.

its like... i put a lot into my fics. even the oneshots already posted, i put a lot into it. and most people dont really.... care much

a lot of people like to claim that this fandom has no hierarchy of "more popular" and "less popular" but the funny thing is, people that say that the most are the popular people. there is a very clear social ladder here where there are people at the top that can do basically whatever and get fawned over, and then theres Everyone Else and they dont get that kind of acclaim.

which, thats not a Bad Thing to observe. this is common in literally every fandom and pretending like we're somehow "above" that is seriously disingenuous- we're not. popular users like i said can do basically whatever and people still love them. its disheartening when "basically whatever" means "put out work i personally dont think is very good." its downright insulting when "basically whatever" means "get away with being a flat-out cunt 'cause people are too scared of you to call you on it."

so its like... is this what im making content for? assholes, and the people that excuse them? why would i want them to read my stuff? for all i know, one day i'm gonna wake up and have my callout strewn about because, and im gonna be honest with yall here: anarchisma has some seriously fucked up plot points. its a dark au. and some of the plot points arent dark, theyre just odd. there's an incestuous couple and its never really made into a Thing theyre just There. its not a Statement on how Incest Is Bad, theyre literally just vibing and thats their Thing and its not seen as a Bad Character Trait to be Fixed And Amended. their main problem is codependency and shoving themselves into the box of "the weird people" at the detriment of their real personalities. at the end of their (background) arc, they resolve both their issues... but they're still in a relationship with each other. most people in this fandom, even the ones that claim they're Not Antis cause they Like The Bad Ship, would at best think this is fucking weird and at worst try to doxx me over it. on the other side of the coin, there's a character that attends a trial for their own childhood rape. and since the trial includes memory playbacks, the worst thing in this guy's life (so far) is being played on The Big Screen. its... im planning for it to be described in-detail, because its supposed to make you uncomfortable. the victim is the pov character in this instance and the inclusion of the detail is supposed to make you, the reader, feel the same bone-deep revulsion and discomfort that they felt watching their own trauma unfold in front of basically their society's equivalent to God. but yk, its commonly accepted that Rape Scene Bad (and yeah there's a good argument for that, gratuitous scenes like that just for the sake of torture porn arent.... good..... but im not gonna get into that here cause thats a more nuanced topic than i feel comfortable tackling on my Invader Zim Tumblr Blog) but the point is like, will the mere inclusion of that scene lead to people hating me? nobody in this fucking fandom has any Reading Comprehension to maybe think about wether the scene is just gratuitous for thee sake of gratuity or if its like.... actually. serving a purpose. hell, am i gonna get angry people in my inbox now, over a scene that isn't even confirmed to be included?

some characters have confirmed mental illnesses; am i gonna get people in the comments explaining to me how An Autistic Character Would Never Do Something Like That or try and excuse the pretty fucking reprehensible actions of certain people because of their autism? would they come after me for making an autistic character immoral? (fun facts: lefy's autistic! hes also one of the most immoral characters in the whole protagonist lineup.... but also, you get why he did what he did. jerkass woobie, remember.) and on the other side, some characters have confirmed ASPD! am i gonna get idiots in my comment section explaining to me that She Can't Be A Sociopath Because She Loves Her Family And Has A Boyfriend? (note for everyone else: i have ASPD.) if i have to have my own disorder condescendingly explained to me in my comments i am GOING to lose my mind

i know this makes it sound like i have a pretty low opinion of this fandom... and i do! kind of? i know there are a lot of smart, talented people here. i admire the work of so many creators and i love seeing certain people in my notes (if you regularly like my original posts, i know your url by heart and i love you)

but no matter how good the good side is, theres always gonna be a bad side. for every fan of my au there's gonna be some dipshit that saw "rapr," didn't read the rest of the tags, gets shocked that the first story is about miscarriage, and tries to take it out on me for writing it in the first place, rather than realizing it was their dumb ass that didn't read the fucking tags.

i have some OC-centric oneshots. they're going to be a part of anarchisma as chapters in a defect-centered anthology. the anthology serves to introduce certain characters or concepts that were too clunky to introduce anywhere else in the text. i have "the worst job in the empire," which i've showed to a lot of people, and they all liked it. i have the "little green candies" fic, which im pretty sure im infamous for among my friends cause its freaked out everyone i showed it to. i have two other fics i think are really good

sometimes i think about posting them.

and then i remember nobody really cares about ocs unless theres art attached. a lot of art, and only if its past a certain threshold of "quality." if i post that stuff to the wider public and nobody cares i'm gonna be really upset, honestly. itd kill my motivation, and id rather live in a fantasy where my au is popular, than post au content and realize that it probably never will be.

[kuromichad]

another thing about what’s changed pretty drastically in fandom culture (tbh culture in general) since when i was a kid is like. so, after several years of Anti Culture honestly i dont even have it in me to care anymore to have like, constant paranoia that someone out there is thoughtcriming by shipping the wrong things or even making violent porn of them, nobody should be literally dwelling on these things constantly lmao the specter of the problematic shipper is so deeply unhealthy and an unwinnable battle. what i feel is the acute issue, the thing we’ve actually made a LOT of progress on, is ‘does anybody even acknowledge that it’s rape/incest/etc and that it would rationally upset people.’ 

the danger of ‘rape culture’ is that it’s made up of things that are normal and treated like common sense, like ‘that’s just how it is.’ that’s what makes it a pervasive culture that creates unsafe situations, keeps victims from speaking up, enables perpetrators to do what they want and to get away with it. you get away with assault and harassment by convincing people that it doesn’t count. what was dangerous and hurtful to me about the content i saw was, like i said, that it was treated casually, that there was scarcely any acknowledgment that certain ships or kinks or specific portrayals of otherwise inoffensive tropes were more caustic, should be treated with more care. 

in the same way that romcoms will utilize what is objectively stalker behavior and have it be rewarded with the romance working out in the end, loads of fanfiction would involve rape/incest/csa and not acknowledge it-- either because the author genuinely doesn’t understand that’s what they’re portraying (which is the fault of generalized rape culture) or because it’s just inconvenient that anybody would be a killjoy loser about what they see as a totally made up concept that doesn’t affect anybody-- and have everything neatly tied up in the end with their ship getting together/fucking and everyone praising it in the comments as such great content. it was encouraged and common (Normalized) to see literally no difference between that kind of shit and any other fluffy happy uwu unproblematic fanworks because all of it was fictional and all of it was made by people having fun. nothing in it needed to be taken seriously and none of it should bother anybody.

clearly, this is not what things are like now!!! like of course things arent perfect but there’s exponentially more awareness among like, all people, especially in fandom as well, of the broader implications of everything, the seriousness of a given subject matter. when these things do happen by genuine accident it gets discussed, and it happens less because people are exposed to those discussions beforehand. and everyone is goddamn well aware of what makes a ship Problematic, the theory behind it, even if there’s a whole lot of debate about whether those rules are being enforced appropriately or in good faith. like, as much as it’s obnoxious and creepy for people to be like “yes i know i’m SOOOO problematic <3 i do all of this on purpose <3 i love being as EDGY as possible <3 kinkshaming is my kink <3” it’s literally a VERY GOOD THING that they actually fucking know it’s wrong. that’s a big fucking change. that’s the entire point of working against grooming because grooming is based on normalization... a person saying “i’m into this specifically because it’s taboo and i know exactly how wrong it is” is literally not normalizing it lmao.

basically im just. longwindedly repeating what i said before: the fact that people actually know now to have locked side accounts and separate aliases and shit for specific kinds of content is a sign that this discussion is working. acknowledging that certain shit is caustic and different and triggering is actually a big fucking deal in contrast to how shit used to be and that on its own is going a long way in protecting today’s kids. this is why it aggravates me so much that we’ve escalated to infiltrating intentionally private spaces just to... show these works to a much broader audience that the creator literally did not want and took measures to avoid. the ‘righteous’ person who goes EVERYONE LOOK AT THIS!!! is literally doing more damage than the person who was like ‘i know this is a sensitive matter and people who dont sign up for it shouldnt be exposed to it’ and had their trust violated. even if the latter person is the one that’s the Evil Pervert. 

if what’s in that private account is anything less than expressed intent/desire to actually harm real people then it should stay private because that means it’s literally inherently not the kind of thing that poses an immediate threat to people. maybe you view it as like, a Spiritual threat, metaphysical, religious, because of dwelling on it so much, spending so much time being afraid of what people are hiding, being crushed under the emotional burden of Everything In The World Is Unethical In Some Way, but that’s just. not healthy. and we do not agree. the tree that falls in the forest may still make a sound but it’s not one you would have heard if you weren’t putting yourself in its path. the tree falling ON you is a worse outcome than the sound alone if you hadn’t been there. Does that make sense

[nbapprentice]

You said a while back that while Supergiant games (Bastion, Transistor, Hades) was mostly okay, you had some words about them. I was curious as to what those words were, since Hades' full release is soon.

okay. alright. ive been playing hades lately so i definitely want to give my two cents (or dollars by the size this is gonna get). but let’s go Step by Step

the good: i want to throw a whole Endorsement over supergiant games with the art direction and its characters, which is what keeps me coming back again and again, and what i can assume is that most people are attracted to. 

gameplaywise, they have a Format they stick to which has become their staple, not to their detriment but to their advantage, like... gameplay tropes, so to speak, that they stick to (such as the addition of special conditions that give a disadvantage in exchange for more long-term rewards)

i fucking adore that they take one concept per game, go for it, and when they’re done they are Done; they don’t bother with sequels, they don’t want to run things to the ground and i fucking respect that. They have their themes, and they stick to them (to various degrees of success).

that said, like every piece of media, they are not perfect and this has to be analysed and spoken about

CONTENT WARNINGS: genocide and ethnic cleansing, antisemitism, misogyny, homophobia, suicide, and mentions of incest, and a general Spoilers warning

bastion: touches on ethnic cleansing, and not in a way i’d say is satisfactory. our narrator and one of our Sympathetic characters is one of the men who worked on a world-ending weapon meant to use against the Ura (a group of people coded as East Asian) which after a bit of googling is literally called “the final solution” if there was ever a war between the Ura and the Cael (who feel like rly tan white people to me). jesus fucking CHRIST.

we also meet more Ura other than our two named characters and we have to kill most of them. so that fucking blows.

the game tries for “being a genocidal monster will get you fucked up and blown up” which duh, but i feel we shouldn’t have had a person responsible for war crimes be one of our friends no matter how bad he feels about the whole thing, or the people victim of war crimes become villains in the latter half of the game. zia’s father could’ve taken ruck’s role ez pz.

transistor: the weakest of their games, imo; the lore and writing are fairly flimsy and i did not come out feeling Satisfied, especially because it had this rly good build-up that did not pay off. not to mention... their villains? 3/4 were gay people. lol. two married guys (not even explicit, you only realize by their shared last names) and the ps*cho lesbian trope (iirc she wanted to kill the protagonist’s lover or something). the female protagonist also ends up killing herself to live forever in a digital paradise with her dead lover. it’s. god. 

very Aesthetic, GORGEOUS music, interesting gameplay; had potential, i do not feel like it lived up to it at least as far as the story goes.

pyre: now this one. this one’s BEEFY. where transistor felt flimsy, pyre is rich; lots to sink your teeth into, rich in lore and loveable characters, again w the beautiful music, themes of cooperation and togetherness. my favorite of the cast is volfred sandalwood, the only Black (or, well, Black-coded) revolutionary i’ve ever seen portrayed with this amount of sympathy.

onto the bad: they literally have a Class of character named “Savage”; there’s the “mystical mentally ill person” trope; there is an overwhelming amount of explicit m/f pairs (one of them being. a romance that formed in a single day and then both of the characters were somehow willing to risk it all for each other? PLEASE) while the only hints of gayness are... hints. especially when Jodariel (another of my favs) is teased to have feelings for the player regardless of gender then only gets an ending with a male character with whom she has nothing in common 🙃

hades: and now. this one. music: gorgeous. character designs: spectacular (aphrodite is straight up naked but it’s so... natural and casual, it doesn’t feel sexualized at all). voice acting amazing. character interactions charming and endearing. as a greek mythology nerd, it was nice to see them go for the obscure shit like Zagreus at all, NOT portray Persephone and Hades as a loving couple, AND portrayed the gods as the bunch of petty assholes (some more benevolent than others) that they are. imo they’re too generous with their portrayal of achilles but i’ll allow it.

and finally... it seems all those criticisms about having all the gay characters hidden in the shadows paid off, cuz we got (aside of patroclus and achilles) a bisexual polyamorous protag. Holy Shit! and it’s not even playersexual, romance whomever you want shit without the routes recognizing each other: he explicitly talks about how he’s thinking abt them both (though it’s like “yeah usually mortals take one lover but gods love many huh” polyamory is a human thing too bro!!!!!)

and this is where it all goes, well, at least vaguely downhill lol. ok so the incest warning i gave up there? well. it’s not... outright incestuous. but it has some ugly implications. i want to emphasize: the characters never refer to each other as siblings, nor do they treat each other as such (thanatos, in fact, only recognizes hypnos as his brother, and megaera only sees the other furies as her sisters), but they were all raised by the same woman, Nyx... zagreus and thanatos even grew up together (im assuming megaera didnt meet zagreus until he was fully grown).

this is complicated even worse by the fact that they tried to trick zagreus into believing Nyx was his mother. he realized pretty early on this was not true but like... adoptive mothers, anyone? granted i can believe that bc of the attempt at deception that probably ruptured any attempt at actual familial closeness, and it’s not like hypnos and thanatos saw zagreus as their brother at any point, so they were p much aware of the truth too. with the fact that thanatos even looks like goth miles edgeworth (im not kidding you can google him up right now its literally edgeworth in a cowl) i rly feel they were aiming for Childhood Friend Anime Rival Man than the “surprise kiss bc ur not actually related <3″ shit. zagreus never once refers to nyx as his mother in-game, and also refers to thanatos and hypnos as her sons, never his brothers.

so yeah, like. if one’s feeling generous, zagreus and thanatos are more of a “my father is emotionally closed off and neglects me so my best friend’s mother basically raised me” kind of situation... just pulled off in, perhaps, the worst way possible (why didnt they just say Zagreus was told Hekate was his mom, that’s such an easy fix? or that he was born of nobody other than Hades??? [gestures at athena])

but then, the gods. aaaaaaaahhhhahahahh the gods. demeter shows up! and she calls zeus, hades and poseidon... her foster-brothers. which somehow would make the persephone thing less fucking awful, apparently. they really. really really did not need to do that. she could’ve just said “my fellow gods” or whatever. or my “god-brothers” or something, to pretend it was just a weird god alliance thing??? i dont know but implying that foster family isn’t family is just... bro, the dynamics still exist.

Don’t Like That.

i even contacted supergiant games over this. they reassured me they were even trying to avoid the incest of the original myths bc they didn’t want to mess with such a heavy theme. i believe them... but i really think they didn’t think this through. compared to something like fire emblem fates this is nearly benign, but the implications don’t look good :/

tl;dr of the tl;drs: i admire their artistic philosophy and the heavy emphasis on fresh gameplay, characters and their relationships; i appreciate that it seems that they listen to criticism?; i don’t appreciate that they didn’t think to at LEAST talk to adoptees when making a game about family.

[beizhuo]

alright folks , i made this post last night about amending my carrd rules . & now , after calming somewhat down from getting sick to my stomach about it , i must now make one final update post about this to make people really & fully understand where i stand . why ? because i am , once again , having / needing to finely comb through the people i want to follow & interact with due to some very , VERY toxic behavior & terrible , childish individuals that think its real cute to stalk , harrass , steal , & gatekeep folks . 

understand that i will NOT be namedropping anybody in this post . this is not my intention . i am not out here to isolate folks or make people ‘ chose sides ’ . making people do that is absolutely horrible ! i do not give a damn who other people interact with . i do , however have extreme issues with theft ( amongst other things ) . i can draw a god damn line at theft ! 

harassment ? don’t care . you’re trolling , i can ignore you . gatekeeping . you’e petty and attention seeking im here for friends anyway . but actual literal theft - i can draw a line there . please get out & OFF MY BLOG if you are so unoriginal that you haveta steal from me or my friends !

please know that you can interact with those thieves & gatekeepers , i don’t care ! but understand that i will most likely softblock you because i genuinely do not want them to find me . no hard feelings . ( they have found my other 2 blogs , and i am tired of them finding me ! especially for baizhu ! i don’t even follow some of my friends here cause of this ! ) i am not even in the genshin community to begin with . my group ? we don’t do communities for toxic behavior and people being so exclusive to the point of driving people out & away . its distasteful and mean ! do you know that i have some friends that were cut off from communities entirely all because they were a dupe ? tHAT is the kind of dupe drama i fucking hate . along with theft . anyway . i will start from the beginning of my rules that i deem important .

DUPLICATES . ( AND MIMICRY / THEFT )

the irony that this is the first point . it is like it was a wonderful transition . anyway . this is actually having to deal with two rule points . and i want to group them together cause they are related .

myself & a few other people have come to find out that .... there is somebody AT THE VERY LEAST taking inspo from us . i will start with dupes .

my friend has a character and was WHOLLY mistaken for another mun . which is fine . that happens , but things took a turn for the worse when they were then shunned / cut off because they werent ‘ good enough ’ . do you know how HORRIBLE that is ? to be told that you aren’t good because you weren’t the mun that they wanted ? this is the type of shit i cannot stand with dupe drama . DO NOT EVER COMPARE DUPES WITH ONE ANOTHER !!! i mean it . 

i follow different childes ! and you know what i adore them both . they are both amazing ! 

sure i may have my mains / exclusives ( and im not inclined to interact with other blogs of that same character ) but i still like portrayals . i do , in fact , just READ threads sometimes . i don’t necessarily follow for interactions . like ffs man . i like variety . jesus christ .

going to mimicry / theft . you know ... i have fucking seen this with a couple of friends . there is a difference between coincidental similarities , however ! for myself & for my friends , we have SEEN inspo taken from us . im gonna say this really loud for people .

MIMICRY IS NOT FUCKING FLATTERY . 

do not take inspo from me . especially without credit . absolutely do NOT do it . you are very unoriginal for doing that shit . 

now , you like something i make / made ? you are inspired to want to make something ? fine , that’s okay , you can ALSO fucking ask me , you can also credit me . as you fucking should ! you can notify me and go , damn , i really like your style , do you mind if i use it in xyz ? sure , go right ahead . do it . im begging you , go ahead and do it IF YOU FUCKING ASK ME . god im so fucking angry about this , but this is some vile shit . and im angry .

i am angry and terrified cause i literally cannot get away from these people cause they seem to be wherever i go . i DO NOT DO COMMUNITIES BECAUSE OF THIS .

as a good friend said : it’s like they are a virus that you cannot get rid of .

thats what happens with attention seekers unfortunately , but for the sake of my safety & health , i will not have it on my blog or dash . if i see these people on my dash often , i will unfollow .

and it isn’t like a specific person , its a GROUP of people . which leads me to my next point .

DRAMA / CALLOUTS.

imagine having beef with an individual , and then going around and gatekeeping that individual and getting people to unfollow / block them . im not talking about , ‘ hey this person is vile because they ship incest ’ . i am talking about ‘ i had a disagreement with this person & they hurt my feelings >:/ they are mean and will hurt you . etc etc etc . ’ 

i do not give a flying fuck about somebodies issues with another person . so you guys don’t get along . not my problem . i have people that hate me . i have friends where i hate their friends . shit happens . i am probably absolute scum to some people lol . i get mistaken for other people sometimes . it’s fine , hate me cause you think im that person . that person is snowflake repellent anyway , go choke on your kool aide that you are drinking ig . 

okay sorry i am angry but still . people claim and cry about wanting to talk & communicate . but then . guess what . sometimes shitty people are like , so this person said this to me , and they are mean . IF YOU ARE THE PERSON THAT GOES ‘ OH MY GOD HOW DARE THEY ’ AND BLOCK THEM THEN YOU ARE THE PROBLEM . i will give an example . of using my two names that i have .

somebody goes to amphy and says ‘omg ghost said this , and im frustrated and angry with them cause what he said was uncalled for . ’ if amphy goes ‘ omg ghost is shitty ’ and then unfollows / blocks them without any other discussion , then thats an issue cause ghost has no idea wtf happen . amphy got involved in YOUR relationship with ghost even though ghost has been nothing but kind and sweet to you . you also don’t know if amphy is just victimising or being emotional either . so why they fuck would you believe somebody who is venting to you about it and then block somebody who did literally NOTHING to you .

i dont know if i explained that correctly but i will give you something more realistic , again without namedropping .

i have a few friends that hate one another . i’ve known all of them for years . but they all , i kid you not , they ALL fucking hate each other . there’s three of them . and they cannot stand each other . i just happen to be somebody who gets along with all of them . you bet your ass that at one point , they all came to talk mad shit about the others . what did i do ? i went , oh okay . well im sorry that you have issues with them . sounds like a bad experience , but i can’t do anything about that cause i am not you and i am not them . if you are gonna change my mind , it isn’t gonna happen , sorry !

i have had people shit talk people i have no idea who they are , and i just sit here just being a source for them to vent , but i never NEVER EVER act on anything i hear . why ? cause its petty drama and gossip . if you do that , then damn , sorry kiddo , get some help on that alright ? maybe be nicer . i dunno .

now . racism ? pedophilia ? incest ? HARMFUL SHIT ? that’s different . but again , theres a lot of miscommunication . i have people coming and pulling the cards like they are hot shit  and that isn’t fucking cute . THAT ISN’T CUTE GUYS . you are the problem if you try to victimize yourself cause of something YOU misinterpreted .

i have a friend that has this on their blog .

i am literally going off on a god damn tangent . anyway . :) 

fuck you if drink kool aide .

THERE ARE OTHER MENTAL DISORDERS! YOU ARE ABLEIST IS YOU ERASE THE OTHER (UN)COMMON ONES.

i know that autism is the ‘common’ one here . you are valid okay . but guess what . ADHD , BPD, DiD, and straight up depression and anxiety are also things as well ! there are MANY folks here that are also undiagnosed as well OR they lay on some sort of spectrum as well . I am once again not going to disclose my own things here cause again THAT IS PRIVATE INFO , but fuck you if you refuse to see other disabilities .

also there are physical disabilities as well btw .

if you are not understanding of any other disability , or you wanna mute / deafen other mental disorders , YOU ARE THE FUCKING PROBLEM .

end of story . 

treat other people how you want them to treat you and don’t you dare ever shove your baggage at them . thanks . 

please be more understanding that some people are not okay:tm: . 

i implore you to get help if you need help , but sometimes some people dont have to take your shit . and they most certainly do not need to sit and take your issues if they are not okay either . its toxic and very unhealthy behavior to expect others to help you . they can help you as best as they can , but you need to understand that everybody has their moments . do not guilttrip them . do not gaslight them . 

but also understand that sometimes , people are saying things cause they genuinely need help ! you can be there for them but as a friend , you need to also tell them your own boundaries as well and tell them that they need to seek professional help .

but also , if somebody refuses to get help , then that is on them . not on you . 

anyway another tangent , but back to the point . autism , while you need to understand is something you need to see and understand , is not the only mental disorder ! and you need to understand that some people suffer from really REALLY shitty things and are sometimes undiagnosed . i am really REALLY tired of depression , ADHD , BPD, and DiD getting brushed under the rug like they are not important . cause guess what , there are spectrums ! all mental health is important . fuck you if you disregard the other disorders , you are being ableist .

STOP HATE READING PEOPLE.

im really sick and tired of this . you don’t like something somebody said ? you can either : ask what they meant or block / unfollow them . 

DO NOT FUCKING STALK THEM EITHER . 

you have an obsession if you hover on their blog too .. do not do that . that is SO unhealthy for you . here is what a friend said on twitter . ( not name dropping them , just copy pasting them )

❛ i stg people need to fine a better hobby than to hate read a persons blog or profile. not a good look on you when you go and read what they post about just to get angry at something you think they said and then you go off spewing lies about it cause 'youre offended.'  

like you already hate them in the first place. you weren’t 'looking to see if they were a better person.' youre just looking to find another thing to hate about them. 

that is what hate reading is about. so you can read their posts and find just another reason to hate and laugh at how bad you think they are.

but it doesnt make you a better person. it just makes you a sad person with no life. stop hate reading people. grow tf up. go breathe on some plants or something idk.

i say this very loud and clear . if you hate read me , i live in your head rent free . not my problem . but it does become my problem if you begin to steal shit and start spewing lies about myself or my friends . grow up and move on with your life . sorry my life seems more interesting than you ig . idk .

anway this got long , and at this point i am going off on a tangent but !!!!

TL ; DR

read my rules ig . idk .

you can dm me for more info if you want . at this point i have blocked the problem blogs for myself. if you are curious you can ask . HOWEVER. i am not going to tell you to block or unfollow . why ? cause at the end of the day , it is MY beef . this are my issues . i am NOT here to gatekeep .

i will say that i will tell you IN private the for MY story . but keep in mind that it is MY story . not yours . not theirs . it is all about perception .

my perception is that they are scummy gatekeeping thieves . they gatekeep the people they dont like or are intimidated by . i am somebody who fucking bites and calls people out on their shit , because of this ? i make enemies . but my enemies are not yours . i dont care .  dont give a damn . i am intimidating to people who are cowards and i don’t care . 

if they feel bad when i call them out , if they try to go around and do damage control , then that means they are guilty .

and then you can ask yourself this : why are they reacting like that ?

i am once again going to bring up that other twitter user that i quoted before .

❛  you dont like hearing that because someone is holding a mirror up to you and it makes you uncomfortable because you know you . and you know the parts of you that are good . so in your heart you have to come up with a narrative that makes you feel better about the fact that somebody is asking your to confront the parts about yourself that you hate the most .

anyway . this got long . im so sorry for the long read . im so sorry i sounded hostile ad angry . im just volatile sometimes . im just really tired . and i dont need to come on this blog and have a panic attack . 

anyway . cheers loves ! stay happy , stay healthy . drink your fluids . take your meds !

[bigskydreaming]

Im asking this genuinely so pls dont yell at me; when you say that those using trigger warnings dont care about their readers’ mental health and wellbeing, what else are trigger warnings supposed to be for? To make sure people don’t enter fics that have material that would harm them. Just like tv shows that warn about nudity or violence or what have you. Its a rating system, theyre warnings. Tagging for rape or underage ARE the looking-out-for-readers thing. Past that, it is on readers to decide

I try not to yell at anyone engaging in good faith, I know it doesn’t always seem that way, but I would rather be engaged with than ignored...the latter is when my volume goes up, lol.

But in answer to your question, it comes down to the fact that trigger warnings are well established enough in fandom by now, that they exist as a kind of social contract.

In short, its EXPECTED that you provide trigger warnings, and that if you don’t have them, someone will bring that up at some point.

Problem is, this counter-productively works against what trigger warnings are actually FOR.....once we reach a point (which we’ve long since reached)....where a lot of people are only including the trigger warnings because of the social contract that expects them to have them, and not ACTUALLY because they’re prioritizing their readers’ well-being.

Something I see a LOT after trigger warnings is the phrase or sentiment “enter at your own risk”....and the phrasings are so, so key to what I’m talking about. 

Take a small sampling and just look for what I’m describing and I’m fairly certain you won’t have to go far to find an example of a fic where the tone of the author is not one of concern for readers, but preemptive concern for potential backlash from readers.

And these are two very different things.

Like, we all know how to read and interpret tone and nuance. Its genuinely not that hard to tell the difference between a sincere expression of wanting readers to be aware of potentially triggering content, and a faux-expression of that when really, the only thing you’re worried about triggering is a negative reception from people, and you want to get ahead of that by making it clear from the get go that hey, you did your job, you warned readers, and thus nobody has any grounds to say anything about your content itself.

Because also too there’s the fact that trigger warnings are inherently fallible. They rely on the author’s own AWARENESS of their content and everything it might include......but a racist author isn’t going to place a trigger warning for using their characters as mouthpieces for even blatant white supremacist ideology. 

A genuinely predatory author (and yes, they absolutely do exist, and its willful stubbornness that people rely on to pretend that like, for some bizarre reason, only genuinely predatory people don’t partake in this otherwise global hobby of reading and writing fiction, like what even is that, how do you arrive at that conclusion, that like, actual pedophiles are so busy preying on ‘real life’ teenagers in their zip code 24/7 that they just don’t have TIME to go online and cultivate predatory relationships with real life teenagers via social media? That doesn’t make any sense!)

But anyway, a genuinely predatory author, is absolutely NOT going to tag or place trigger warnings for pedophilia, etc....because they don’t WANT the things they write perceived that way.

People trying to normalize incest are not always going to tag for incest because they want to DISTANCE the cute, sweet dynamic between two ‘only sorta brothers’ as other than the kind of incest that destroys families...regardless of the reality that most cases of incest are the LATTER and its the FORMER that’s so rare it barely exists. 

And that sort of thing is how we get terms like dub-con and pseudo-incest and ‘consensual underage sex’ when its describing a relationship between a minor and adult....because this is mitigating, distancing language. Its entire reason for existing is to make unpalatable content seem more palatable.

And especially in Batfandom, we KNOW this.

Because we all, practically universally, give Devin Grayson crap for describing the rape in Nightwing #93 as ‘nonconsensual sex’ and go.....THATS NOT A THING!

And then half of fandom turns around and....acts like that and similar stuff...IS A THING.

That doesn’t work! LOL. It just...doesn’t.

Or another example, because abuse can be just as triggering as rape.....like, for me, personally, I’m a survivor of both, and yes, both CAN be triggering. But not as much as people might think....like, just reading a depiction of these things doesn’t trigger me.

Its, like you were saying at the get go, yes, a matter of surprise.....the kind of thing that CAN be warned for, and prepared for, and its the sheer unexpectedness that’s usually the trigger. 

Like.....I went off a few weeks ago about reading a story that was supposed to be about Dick’s brothers learning the truth about what led him to take the Spyral mission and what happened in Forever Evil. That’s what the summary said, that was it, that was the only thing it led me to expect about the story. So understandably, I go into the story expecting it to be sympathetic to Dick. I’m looking for catharsis from it honestly, a salve for the many fics and canon events that blamed and punished him for something I don’t consider his fault, right?

And then towards the end....I get Jason punching Dick again, before hugging him, because that’s just how he reluctantly shows love or whatever.

This genuinely triggered me, yeah. Its why I got so upset about it. Because I was blindsided, I had no way to prepare for it, because I went in expecting catharsis for a story that bothered me due to its victim blaming, and instead I got the author heaping on more of the same abuse we already saw in canon.....with zero awareness that’s what she was doing. 

So....that’s absolutely something I wrestled with should I message the author and ask them to add a trigger warning or not? Because I genuinely could have used one. It would have helped. I would have avoided that story if I had any notion that might crop up in it, because frankly, that’s not something I had any interest in reading.

But problem is, there’s only really two realistic outcomes there. If she was open to hearing a genuine request for her to be aware that her content contained triggering material for a reader....chances are, she probably would have just edited it and taken that out entirely. It was just one line. Easy enough to do. It certainly didn’t add anything.

Problem is....there’s an equal and opposite likely outcome....that she’d get defensive, call this unsolicited criticism, and double down on the idea that what she had written wasn’t abuse, because obviously she doesn’t condone abuse, so she wouldn’t have written that plain and simple. It has to be acknowledged that a lot of authors ARE innately defensive about social content in their work, and not open to hearing they’ve done something offensive or triggering....because that’s like...literally the basis of the ‘no unsolicited criticism’ movement in fandom, even though being critical of toxic ideology expressed in content is NOT the same as offering criticism of someone’s writing in general. 

So you see what I mean? A trigger warning COULD genuinely help in that situation....but our fandom environment simply flat out is not conducive for readers to be at all confident that they even CAN come forward and alert an author that they delved into an offensive, even harmful take with their content and be well received no matter HOW they phrase it....

For much the same reasons I mentioned in that other post. People are more likely to instinctively jump to the defense of the person WRITING the content that offended or did actual emotional harm....than the person simply trying to say, backed by their own lived experience of....being offended or experiencing emotional harm....hey, this is a problem for me and I would appreciate it being regarded as such....

Otherwise, what is even the POINT of this entire system of trigger warnings in the first place? If a problem for a reader isn’t regarded as worthy of attention in and of itself.....at least, not in comparison to whatever problem that READER’S problem creates for the WRITER.

You see what I’m saying? For this, and a lot of other reasons, trigger warnings are innately fallible. They rely on an honor code system, and the uncomfortable truth is none of us are actually naive enough to believe everyone in fandom is innately honorable enough to honor that....if they were, would we have as much cases of anon hate, spite fics, etc?

But fandom as a whole looked at the trigger warning system and decided well....its good enough. Because its not like I’m proposing a viable alternative, its not like I have a BETTER system in mind, offhand. All I do have is the point that well...no...its NOT good enough as is....because for a ton of reasons, there’s a ton of cases in which there’s a ton of people for which it flat out doesn’t work for or benefit at all.

But when this comes up to any degree, in any capacity whatsoever....and the only thing people fall back on is well, I tagged it, or I used trigger warnings what more do you want, or its good enough for me so that’s what matters, or just....

“I did what I was supposed to per the social contract about trigger warnings, so if anything goes wrong in your reading experience at this point, that’s entirely on you.”

Like, does that make sense?

Basically, there’s a world of difference between:

This is a problem that still needs solving because the solution provided now is not all-encompassing or inclusive....

And....

This is a problem that’s already been solved as far as I’m concerned, and I’m utilizing that solution so any further problems are just in the mind of the reader and have nothing to do with reality, let alone me and my work.

Again, as I said above....its the difference between genuinely engaging with other members of your fandom community with actual concern for THEIR fandom experience.....or faking engagement with other members of your fandom community when your only real concern is YOUR fandom experience, and at most, the experiences of anyone who already is of like minds to you on a subject.

Hopefully that answers your question or clarifies my stance there, anon. And thank you for actually engaging on this. It feels a bit like shouting into the void a lot of the time, lol.

[21ate]

i just finished trial 3 and god damn i have no idea how to feel about korekiyo.......

huge trigger warning: incest, sexual abuse, grooming. everything will be under the cut as this is a long post about disturbing subjects

lemme say right off the bat that the sister thing is, well, fucked up - and regardless of what im about to say here, its not meant to defend or excuse kiyo’s actions

but...theres a couple of things about his character and behavior that makes me feel like its not as straightforward as the “forbidden yet pure love” he makes his relationship out to be after the verdict, and i think in order for me to settle my own feelings on him i should discuss it at length

(i dont think im the first to talk about this though of course, but since im goin thru the effort to sort of live blog my experience with this game, i might as well make my own contribution to this particular topic too.)

so first is the fact that kiyo is the younger of the two siblings, not older. i guess it doesnt necessarily matter that much if it were the case of simply a pure, though incestuous, relationship...however, an age gap like that could lend to the idea of grooming - in this case, the older sister grooming the younger brother, kiyo

this can be especially seen when considering how kiyo talks about his sister and the explicit sexual nature of it (which ill explain how so later). he is full of adoration for her. so adoring he is, in fact, that he is willing to kill for her. of course, the killing didnt come until after she had passed away...but why was he so attached to her to such an extreme in the first place? to the point where he became deluded into believing her soul was within him after her death and believing he must provide her with friends in the afterlife?

grooming is accomplished through exploiting the victims vulnerabilities to form an emotional bond, with the objective being to ensure the relationship is concealed and to entrap the victim into being co-dependent, cooperating participant (again to reduce the likelihood of the abuse being found out, as well as to manipulate the victim into coming back to their abuser again and again)

while its unclear to me whether kiyo’s parents were ever in the picture, it certainly would be a contributing factor in making kiyo more vulnerable to abuse if they were not around (be it dead or just neglectful). however, even without knowing the parental situation, the state of his sisters physical health would also suffice as a contributing factor to kiyo’s vulnerability. being in and out of hospitals often would easily worry anyone’s loved ones, and its that worry that can also be exploited just as easily

the way in which kiyo portrays his sister when acting as her spirit is also telling of grooming i think. when he first begins to panic, his “sister” comes forth and rattles off instructions (starting with telling him to calm down, to which he obeys, and several other instructions). i believe this to be revealing of the fact that his sister was the controller in this relationship with kiyo...which is exactly how perpetrators of grooming behave. and as i said, the goal is to keep the victim close and to conceal the abuse. kiyo obeys her commands without question - his loyalty to her is undeniable

grooming is also pretty much tied to sexual abuse too. and what demonstrates this clearly? simple: the sequence depicting kiyo and his sister holding each other while naked. why else would they be shown in such a way if not to make it clear that their relationship was sexual in nature? you could argue that being naked isnt inherently a sexual thing...but in this case, it doesnt make sense to me to see it as anything besides such. from kiyos words about wanting to be enveloped in his sisters warmth, to the fact that kiyo is the younger sibling...and not only that, but hes also still underage...the choice to have the two naked would certainly be confusing if it was meant to be seen as innocent and nothing else. theres simply too many other things wrong about the situation to believe their love was “healthy” and “pure” (in quotes cause obvs there would still be the incest thing)

finally, the end of kiyo’s execution again alludes to the sister having sinister intentions when pursuing her brother. when kiyo dies and his soul ascends to the skies, kiyo’s sister and monokuma throw salt on him to destroy his spirit entirely (as salt is used to ward off ghosts). even if its not exactly the most direct or trustworthy evidence, the fact that it was written this way can still serve as providing further depth to kiyo’s characterization and showing us, the audience, that his sister may not be as kind as kiyo thinks she is

with all this in mind, heres what i think happened:

kiyo was groomed and sexually abused by his older sister. the sister exploited kiyo’s vulnerabilities: he was the younger sibling which gave him a reason to look up to her, the sister was also very sickly, and their parents/other adults may not have been around enough (if at all) to notice the abuse. as a result, she was able to keep kiyo close to her and abuse him under the guise of forbidden love. she convinced him that their relationship was pure and that the opinions of others did not matter. kiyo became attached to the point of obsession, obeying his sisters every command. 

when his sister passed away due to her illness, it broke kiyo down - he had just lost the only person he loved and only one who loved him, so he wouldve been led to believe anyways. after her death, kiyo became deluded into thinking his sisters soul returned to him during a seance he was a part of (perhaps done in an effort to contact her - given how distraught he was after her death, this seems likely). he wanted his older sister and abuser back - because without her, he had no one else to guide him (i.e. groom) and no idea what to do with himself

it eventually escalates into him believing his sister’s soul to be lonely, which may have been him projecting his own loneliness onto her. and thus, his solution was obvious: to provide the soul of his sister with friends to cure her loneliness, he must kill people so that their souls may join her in the afterlife as well. and kill he did...

korekiyo has done terrible things, undeniably - but its also quite tragic how he came to be in such a position. i dont hate him, but i cant like him either. its just not quite that simple. i guess in the end, thats how i really feel about him