#i love when my tags take up more space than the post itself LMFAO

[spirithalloweeping]

i’m having so much fun being on tumblr in 2022 actually. @ anyone seeing this post, let’s be friends

[dotthings]

Okay, about this “g*ncest” thing that just cropped up which makes me feel like I splintered back to the year 2006 and aren’t we over this by now...what that is is a bona fide example of toxic masculinity attitudes at work and being valorized by a small number of fans, mostly female.

First off, as far as I’m concerned, you are free to enjoy or write any type of fic you want, I don’t care. I’m not judging your fic tastes. I won’t insult you as a human being, attack you, send anon hate, or put this post on your tags or even any shared tags. Which is more than antis have done to respect my shipping but whatever. 

However I disagree with the idea that there can be no discussion when fandom reinforces certain biases or ideas and tries to normalize them, without realizing how they’re reinforcing some real world level stuff that needs to be questioned. The discussion itself is valuable if you aren’t being a dick about it. 

So you know how D*stiel fans get accused all the freakin’ time, endlessly, ad nauseam “you don’t respect male friendships! male friendships are rare and precious commodities in the media! why do you have to ruin it by making it gay!” (Sorry I need a moment to stop laughing). When the fact is D*stiel fans openly own their slash and own the gay and fling glitter, they don’t tend to apologize for it, instead of trying to mask the fact that it’s slash. Nobody is denying that close platonic male friendships can exist, either. But guess what, it is outright not toxic masculinity to see past heteronormative defaults to see how shipping two male friends together and seeing the potential for romance instead of by default ruling it out just because people are the same gender. It’s just not. It gets concerned trolled into the freakin’ ground as reinforcing toxic masculinity. It isn’t.

Which brings us to this g*ncest thing which, I stfg I thought we’d left behind in 2006. It’s an old fandom term that has outlived its need and outlived the context of the mores in fandom and society at the time that created it, like its related fic label concept, “smarm.”

“Smarm” isn’t the same definition as “smarmy.” The fandom definition of smarm is fic that depicts two people of the same gender being emotionally and physically close who are not in love and the intent is not romantic and not slash.

In other words, gen fic.

It depicts a platonic friendship or sibling bond.

It’s..gen fic. But for some reason, some felt they had to call it “smarm” because either it’s difficult to grasp that two men can be physically or emotionally close without it being slashy, or, fans who wanted to slash but self-shamed for it. They wouldn’t just call it a slash fic. Just like, it’s not w*ncest it’s g*ncest!!! Which somehow seems to assume itself a fest safe for anyone who isn’t into incest and just wants to celebrate the platonic sibling bond and...no, really, no. Probably be smarter to just host a Sam and Dean Gen Fic fest, which I’m sure exists, and hey, something for everyone, I’m not saying the g*ncest fest shouldn’t be allowed to continue, just pointing out why some people are bothered by it for reasons other than “you are ship shaming meanies!!”

There’s a big aspect of shame in smarm, and I’m arguing, to g*ncest. 

The recent uptick of intensity in SPN fandom where w*incest fandom stans determinedly turn every single canon Sam and Dean moment into incest, and insist every story, every fic, every image, every concept about Sam & Dean’s bond is emotional w*incest is part of this toxic masculinity thing, the g*ncest issue, the smarm issue. A Sam and Dean image, boom, incest! The brothers are so in love! D*stiel fans are considered horrible for, y’know, reading romance into a shit-ton of usage of romantic tropes, canon pining, plot and dialogue and long arcs that map to romantic tropes, even overt shout-outs from other characters to the idea that Dean and Cas are a thing, but if Sam and Dean so much as stand next to each other it’s incest ftw.

There is such a thing as pre-slash and I find it a whole lot less squicky than smarm or g*ncest. I kind of like pre-slash because it owns the fact that romantic relationships don’t always have to manifest as sexy times, but why did we even call it pre-slash, why not just slash at a G or PG rating? I think this is becoming more of the norm, with slash shippers unapologetically posting slash fic at a G or PG rating. Readers are free to read into whatever they want into a gen fic, but if the author ships it and intends to put romance into it, but it isn’t about how the characters have sex or even kiss, they’re still romantically in love and they’re going to label it slash or pre-slash. I don’t see the need for the “pre” in that any more. No they aren’t kissing yet, no they aren’t having sex yet, but they are in love nonetheless. 

Let go of the idea that a kiss or having sex is the only way to verify characters being in love. 

Toxic masculinity isn’t the removal of heteronormative goggles that were probably fused to our faces from birth because that’s how our society is and being capable of imagining that two male friends in a story can fall in love the same way we imagine a man and woman can. 

Toxic masculinity is when you are so determined that men--be it friends or siblings--cannot be close and it be, in fact, friendship or sibling love. It’s the equating of all male intimacy with a sexual and/or romantic bond. And I feel that a false narrative’s been allowed to prevail in SPN fandom that D*stiel fandom is deeply guilty of this when it’s not, while other groups that are doing this chronically, get a free pass.

I’d say it’s a pretty major example of toxic masculinity to insist that platonic w*incest is a thing, instead of just, y’know, Sam & Dean loving each other as siblings without hints of a romantic or sexual element. It’s toxic masculinity to slap the -cest slapping on every-freakin’-thing and then claim you’re being ship-shamed because you actually gate-keeped against fans who really just appreciate the sibling bond and don’t need any -cest to appreciate how close Sam and Dean are and appreciate that bond, and it’s pretty toxic to keep flinging a trigger in people’s faces every five minutes, openly, as if you own the entire fandom, and insist canon backs you up when in fact it’s gently shut you down on multiple occasions, and then expect absolutely nobody to be upset at you ever, and if anyone gets upset they’re ship-shaming you. That’s quite a big amount of entitlement, to assume that people aren’t allowed to be uncomfortable with something like incest.

Especially when you try to force LGBT ships that are non-trigger into the same mode, force a false equivalency, thus fetishizing the LGBT ships, and get offended if someone points out why a differentiation is sensible and necessary.

If you’re into Dean and Cas’s friendship and don’t see any romantic element, that’s gen. No really. It’s friendship fic. That’s not pre-slash. That’s not platonic D*stiel. You see a friendship. There is no such thing as platonic Destiel. Now, this gets tricky, because while that is 100% valid to feel that way, D*stiel is reaching a stage where not-shipping it is cool and all that, but if you vehemently deny there is any reason for other people to see more to it, you’re kind of having to ignore a hella lot of canon to keep those heteronormative goggles fused to your face, and no I am not accusing people who don’t ship it of being homophobic. Or of unconscious biases of being homophobic. We all have them. Talk about it, don’t insult people or shame them, sometimes it just takes a little bit to get people to understand. Others will never get there no matter what. Depends on the person. 

There’s any number of het ships where I have eyes, I can see canon intent, I see they’re into each other, but I don’t care and I don’t ship it and I might enjoy genfic about that relationship or have them wind up as friends, I don’t ship it. There’s non-canon popular slash fics I don’t feel it or see it. I don’t yell down its shippers though. Its that simple. My advice is just don’t go screaming down D*stiel shippers with why must you ruin their friendship or claiming it’s toxic masculinity and going on about the sanctity of platonic male friendship which is just such a rare and precious flower in the media (sorry. pausing to lmfao again). 

I also literally do not care how you see Sam and Dean’s relationship or if you ship that. I honestly do not care and I don��t make assumptions about you as a person (your fandom behavior over your ship might make me decide things about you). But...it’s still incest. I’m not ship-shaming. It’s incest. Why does this have to be explained over and over. You can ship whatever you want and should be allowed to have safe spaces for it but this assumption that everyone has to be 100% cool with such an obvious trigger and societal taboo or they’re hypocrites who don’t really believe in the “ship and let ship” they believe in...come on. “Ship and let ship” doesn’t mean be inconsiderate and it doesn’t mean you have to be comfortable with every ship in the fleet.

But SPN fandom has this lingering thing it can’t seem to let go of where systemically, it thinks incest and an LGBT ship should be treated exactly alike, and it has this thing where incest is being intrusively slapped onto every-freakin’-thing about Sam & Dean in spaces where fans can’t avoid it and it’s not behind a cut tag it’s not labeled, and if you aren’t into it you get mocked, and if you don’t watch only for the brother bond you get mocked, and this is coming from many of the same people who think an LGBT ship is identical to incest and from many of the same people who get offended if you point out why an LGBT ship isn’t like incest, and who get offended people ship that LGBT ship as well as from generalized anti-shippers who treat being a non-shipper like a superior badge of honor and who reinforce the gatekeeping that virulent incest shippers aim at D*stiel shippers while valorizing an incest ship, but this breed of anti-shippers are in total denial about doing it. (Note the distinction between anti-shipper and non-shipper).

But taking what is actually just gen fic about Sam & Dean being emotionally intimate or showing physical affection and insisting it needs a -cest on the end instead of just, y’know, being about a sibling bond...that’s where toxic masculinity comes in. Isn’t one of the whole major points of SPN’s narrative to deconstruct these perceptions of masculinity? To debunk the idea that men can’t be emotionally intimate? And please miss me with the idea that shipping D*stiel is somehow contrary to this. D*stiel is a part of that debunking because neither Dean nor Cas act like the media stereotypes of what bi (or ace or pan or whatever Dean and Cas might be) looks like. They started as friends, and became emotionally close before SPN canon got into the zone where it seems a lot more serious about possibly openly vocalizing or consummating the subtextual pining. Friends-to-lovers isn’t insisting all friends must be lovers. It’s fans identifying something in this particular pair of friends and in the narrative, in the canon, and don’t discard it just because of a heteronormative default that buys a slow burn will-they-won’t-they for m/f but sneers that same-gender potential romance is delusional.

Likewise if it’s Dean and Cas and someone slaps some form of slash label on it while refusing to own that they ship it and refusing to own there could be sexual attraction, instead of simply saying “it’s a gen fic I love their friendship” would also an example of toxic masculinity ideas and probably a lot of self-shaming about seeing and enjoying the slash in the first place. Dean and Cas friendship enthusiasts and Dean and Cas shippers actually get along pretty well (assuming no one is acting like a dick) and that, I think, is because there is such a powerful emotional component to the ship, and Dean and Cas friendship enthusiasts tend to be non-virulent and tend to be open-minded about why the shippers see more in it even if they don’t.

This should be also true of w*ncest fans and enthusiasts of the sibling bond because again, massive emotional component as common ground, but I feel like what’s happening is the more intense and virulent w*ncest fans are trying to draw such a hard line that if you aren’t into incest, there’s no space for you. This goes hand in hand with the virulently pro-codependency fans, who romanticize mental illness and then can’t seem to figure out why anyone is upset with them, and who think that anyone who isn’t into romanticizing mental illness hates the bro bond so they’ve swept out plenty fans who adore the sibling bond with their virulence.

Personally I find uncomfortable when fans insist that gen fic about two dudes being close needs to be some kind of pick-your-fighter-label form of slash instead of just owning it’s a celebration of close male friendship. Bromance is a stupid term and IMO part of toxic masculinity too. 

There’s also the erasure of the fact that D*estiel is one of the least smut-driven ships. A recent study of ships with the highest smut content found w*ncest at the top and D*stiel barely even rated, and here’s the ironic part: virulently anti-destiel w*ncest fans and ship shamey non-shippers slapped D*stiel with a default assumption that it’s all about fapping material and two dudes getting it on and you just want to make spn into a porno and accuses D*stiel fandom of fetishizing m/m relationships when w*ncest is at the top of the smut pile. No I am not shaming you for enjoying smut. No I am not saying that a ship is superior for being less smutty. I’m very clearly objecting to the shaming and misconceptions of D*stiel fandom, which are often willfully perpetuated. 

This misconception has stubbornly stuck in spn fandom and it’s incredibly annoying. Please join us in the year 2018. When so much of D*stiel is Dean and Cas not having sex but just being ridiculous and making heart-eyes and in denial and trying to figure this out and maybe they brush hands and blush, it’s almost Victorian. (Y’know, like the canon ha ha. Oh wait that’s not funny I’m serious). A lot of D*stiel fans write slash fic so they can get them to talk honestly with each other. 

So sure, have your ficfests how you like, but I think it’s worth at least pointing out that this fixation with slapping the -cest label on everything is an example of toxic masculinity concepts at work, is normalizing incest to a ridiculous degree, is de-normalizing fans who really just appreciate a sibling bond, what with the stans insisting that w*ncest is just another term for their close emotional bond, *splutter* I don’t watch SPN for ships how dare you instead of, y’know, having the balls to own the fact that they’re intrigued by the incest ship. They shove it everywhere and disown it all in the same breath.

[tuckerfuckingdidit]

Carwash

YES. IT’S TIME. strap the fuck in, you knew this was gonna be a doozie when you sent it. obligatory tag for @capricornfraud.

when I started shipping it if I did: this started as a weird preoccupation with why no one else shipped it, and how it would work. like, wash is shipped with doc, who he held hostage, and donut, who he shot. i figured carwash didn’t work because their power dynamic is imbalaced in a pretty clear-cut direction, but then tuckington happened! so i assumed it was the Memories that made it weird, and carolina not going back for him. but honestly, ships with History that they need to work through are my fucking weakness—i have an entire tuckington au where tucker is a freelancer for this very reason. 

second, relationships aren’t always easy to put in boxes. “wash has memories from carolina’s father, so all of his feelings for her are familial.” uh, no. wash has come a long way from his initial implantation with epsilon—he knows he is not leonard, and he had a relationship with carolina before he got those memories. there’s no way his feelings are that easily defined. there’s admiration and resentment in there, and that’s just on his side, before you start to fill in the blanks with headcanons.

i ship it because it stands to arguably be one of the most complicated relationships between two living characters on the show. there’s so much there, and i think the writers have shied from carolina and wash having certain Conversations because they don’t know how to tackle them—or had no interest in doing so because they felt it was Too Serious.

my thoughts: i started out not really paying them any mind and now I LOVE IT!!!! i’ve yelled at freddie a lot in the past two weeks, but just. there’s so much there. a lot of people write them as giving each other a wide berth because they have a lot of similar scars—some that they gave each other. you have to remember that it’s not just that carolina didn’t go back for wash: from her perspective, wash put a gun to her head over strangers (who she later came to love, but they were strangers at the time!), and even though he had seen epsilon’s memories of what the director had done, wash stayed with the project. of course he had his reasons, but when carolina’s discovering that everyone is in the wind except for south, wyoming, and wash, she doesn’t know what shape his recovery has taken. all she knows is that he’s still with them. 

but i think it’s also important to bear in mind that they’ve moved a great deal past that. i talked in my carolina post about how i see her as moving full circle, not reinventing herself. i think the reason there aren’t more carwash shippers is because we aren’t given much of a foundation for them during the project for them to circle back to. we see it happen when they’re fighting, but nowhere else. and with carolina having called the freelancers family, i highly doubt carolina and wash only interacted in drop ships and battlefields. 

there’s a lot of empty space to be filled regarding the freelancers, but simply put, i think carolina was tactile, and wash was affection-starved. wash isn’t given a face because we’ve already known him for three seasons when the flashbacks start, so his helmet never comes off, and we miss out on one of the biggest headcanons i have—the team ruffled this kid’s hair constantly. before leonard realized everyone had gotten too chummy and the board was put into place (because what hurts more: people who were always fiercely competitive and shitting on each other abandoning each other, or a family with genuine camaraderie turning into strangers?), you could catch these two half on top of each other in the rec room every once in a while (which conveniently could be a great reason wash seems to rub york the wrong way). like, if you listen to the tone of voice that carolina teases wash in, she obviously thinks wash is adorable. i refuse to believe she wouldn’t have gotten a kick out of flirting with him just to fluster him.

this portion is getting way too long oh my god. basically, the carwash you get on chorus (and going forward), depends largely on your pfl era interpretation of them. that’s the ground work. just because the writers didn’t take the time to develop their relationship doesn’t mean it didn’t exist. do i think they go through the motions of Falling In Love? no. but i do see them as reluctant to ever let go of each other again. like, ever. especially if there’s really no epsilon anymore. they’re each other’s only relic from the project, and that history puts them in a prime position to be the other’s Person—if the work was put in. if you just write them as never talking, then there’s nothing of note to them, and red is a sad panda. but where’s the fun in that?

What makes me happy about them: her fierce determination to never lose him. her starting to reach out for him physically again on chorus, and wash surprising even himself, because holy shit, he’s not flinching. carolina’s quiet mix of amusement and happiness at the (re)discovery that wash still turns into a goddamn cat if you can get him to relax. her foot hooked under his ankle in the mess hall while she talks to the reds. wash deciding he is Done with his food early so he can jam his helmet on his head, because he can’t stop fucking smiling. 

and in restoration AUs where the reds and blues stay on chorus, once the fighting is over? oh my god. have Some Things:

the first time carolina gets her fingers in his hair and he nearly falls asleep on her

her utter dismay when he proceeds to go back to his room and not sleep at all. 

the fact that she would totally take scheduling a Communal nap super seriously if he started to look really exhausted. 

him showing up at her room at 3 in the morning the night he finally cracks and admits to himself that he sleeps best next to her.

the super chill, seemingly impenetrable bubble forming around them that follows. absolutely no one else understands it. they barely understand it. “are they fucking? wait, what if they aren’t? are they gonna get even more obnoxious when they do?” 

^ tucker, probably. it’s ok tucker, just come squeeze in if you don’t have kai.

and when epsilon is gone, carolina has someone who won’t allow her to wall herself off from everyone else, even if it means they just sit together and don’t talk about it. sometimes they do, but most of the time, they don’t. wash just doesn’t want her to be alone. he knows what that feels like, and he doesn’t want that for her. 

just. the sheer amount of forgiveness and trust that is required for them to even function together will never not Get Me. i love happy, healthy stories, and the idea of the two of them healing together will always be something i am here for.

but they’re also not perfect. she’s still going to be protective, and try to take on too much on her own to lower his level of risk. he’s still a fucking spaz. they’re going to get on each other’s nerves. there will still be days neither of them knows how to say the right thing, and days they both keep saying the wrong things. it wouldn’t be Them if it wasn’t awkward. but that just makes when it works so much better.

What makes me sad about them: there are bad days. days when it’s hard to look at each other. when their silences aren’t so companionable—both of them locked in their heads, mulling over past mistakes, could-haves and should-have-beens. 

the days wash can’t quite meet her eye, no matter how much carolina wants him to. 

the days she doesn’t want him to.

also?? if they get closer when epsilon is still around/alive/himself, LOL. awkward.

things done in fanfic that annoys me: there is no carwash fic to come to my attention so far, which is an annoyance in and of itself. *puts on captain hat*

things I look for in fanfic: FOR IT TO EXIST, CACKLING. but i like it when writers understand carolina’s opinion is one wash trusts, and vice versa.

Who I’d be comfortable them ending up with, if not each other: yorkalina, kimbalina, tuckington, suckington, and mainewash are all Good Shit. oh, also mainealina. how did i forget mainealina?

My happily ever after for them: if the reds and blues are all getting houses in the same cul-de-sac, carwash doesn’t just live under the same roof, their rooms are right next to each other. tucker, junior, kai and caboose can live next door. they’re loud. wash may be used to the blues, and carolina had church in her head at all times, but at the end of the day they still need a place to retreat when wash flinches at every loud noise and carolina can’t stop grinding her teeth. 

it’s really important to me that they have somewhere they can go be Quiet together ok, no matter where/when they are. i do love the idea that they never really slow down though. carolina’s not really the settling type, and i’ve always read wash with an inherent need to be Useful since serving as recovery one.

who is the big spoon/little spoon: carolina is the official big spoon. she is not the smol, fight me on this. first of all i literally cannot reblog art where she’s shorter than him—thank u rt, for giving us absolutely no tall women in the pfl arc Because Reasons. but snuggly naptime carwash and post-coital are two completely different animals. at first they can’t even both stick around after sex, and then when they start to, they plant themselves right on each respective edge and Do Not Move. 

you can tell the second they relax though, because they slide closer to the clothed, snuggly arrangement, which is less spooning and more wash on top of her with his head on her chest and her hand in his hair.

what is their favorite non-sexual activity: the exact above arrangement with clothes on. lmfao. NAPS, BRAH. but also don’t underestimate the value in them just Sitting Quietly and being present together, because i neeeed it. i crave it ok. it keeps me up at night.