#i know i made a 'similar' post but mans

[employee052]

this is your reminder to make ur cringy n self indulgent art bc cringe is dead and you gotta live life (I say, despite the fact i still feel a bit cringe but im being so brave abt it)

lettin myself post n do more art for myself so apologies for the more selfshippy art than usual

[gaylittlewizardcat]

I completely understand people who say they don’t like Cats, it’s not everyone’s thing and it doesn’t have to be. But people who act like it’s objectively bad? They genuinely baffle me. Like are they unaware it’s one of the highest grossing musicals of all time??? Or do they choose to ignore it on purpose cause they’re scared of the truth?

[moongothic]

...I... I do not know what on earth compelled me to make this nor why, but I will not be taking criticism at this time

[dw-flagler]

In this post, I will attempt to calmly, reasonably, and in-a-good-faith-manner argue all the points raised by tumblr user @library-bat-girl in the following posts. I am starting a new thread so as not to further destroy the original poster, @skitterenjoyer's, tumblr notifications. Worm (+MHA) spoilers ahead. This will be a long post.

Firstly, I would like to apologize on the worm fandom's behalf. We will not engage in ableism of any kind. I sincerely hope that this was a singular incident and @skittersdrippygirlcock will be better about this in the future.

"MHA has better characters,"

My Hero Academia's primary achievement, I think, is managing to make many decently well rounded characters in a fairly short time-span. It certainly has very good visual character design, with easily memorable character designs, like Mina Ashido or Tsuyu Asui. Most of Class 1A is shown to be more than single-note gimmick characters. For a story with such a tight schedule, and only so much page real-estate, that's impressive! For instance, a character decidedly outside of the main cast, Fumikage Tokoyami, is shown to have more to his personality than "is an edgelord," showing a humility and friendliness that is highly against-type. This is very different than a lot of its peers, especially in Shonen manga, where side characters (and sometimes even main characters) are never more than their tropes (see Fairy Tale, One Punch Man*, The Seven Deadly Sins, or Black Clover). My Hero Academia does clear that bar, by making side characters little more than their tropes. This is to say nothing of the primary cast, who, again, is largely defined by tropes and easily slotted into standardized interchangeable Shonen roles. Rival, Love Interest, Rival but Nice About It. Additionally, MHA has an uncomfortably sexualized main cast, for one composed primarily of minors.

This is compared to Worm, in which many characters are fully realized and could have been the protagonist (and often were in older drafts of the story, due to Worm's 10-year development hell). Every character that gets an interlude, and most that don't, all have fully realized interiority, traumas, and wants. In fact, this is one of the major themes of Worm. Every character, from the protagonist Taylor, to characters so minor they're seen only once (see Damsel of Distress, Dauntless), to major antagonists and monsters (see Jack Slash, Bonesaw) all have their own story, even if this is never shown on-screen. There are no "side characters" in the same manner as in My Hero Academia, because every character is a protagonist of their own story, and not in a trite "life is so beautiful" way.

Taylor isn't the center of the universe, there's an entire world outside of her 3-block bubble. The mechanism by which all characters get their superpowers means that the mere fact of having powers implies this about them. Even the seeming exceptions, aren't (see Alexandria, Garotte). Taylor is a good character. I don't even know how to elaborate on that. She just is. Worm does not have the character Minoru Mineta.

"a better plot,"

What... what is the plot of My Hero Academia? For the life of me, I can't seem to recall. I can tell you the general formula of most of the arcs for the first ~2/3rds of the story. Class 1A goes to do a hero high school thing, like do rescue training, or on-the-job training, or on-the-job-training, or on-the-job-training (they do it like 4 times for some reason), the League Of Villains shows up (even when it's seemingly not the league of villains it actually is the league of villains) they fight about it, the class beats all the villains, and Deku beats up strongest bad guy and also breaks his bones. Repeat step 1. But like. What's... the plot? The League of Villains is evil and wants to kill people and do bad stuff. They explicitly do not have greater motivations. There's generally themes of passing-on-to-the-new-generation, so there's Tomura Shigaraki as the arch nemesis to Izuku Midoriya, just as All Might's Nemesis is All For One. Eventually they fight a big fight about it and I stop reading because I find out about Worm. From what I understand (I have not read the conclusion) the series ends without addressing any long-running questions, wrapping up any character arcs, or concluding anything in a narratively satisfying manner. As if severely rushed.

Worm, there are maybe 15 main stories going on simultaneously, which are all tied into the final confrontation with Scion. The most obvious is Taylor's and the Undersiders' story, about taking over Brockton Bay and defeating Coil, which is a smaller part of Coil's story about taking over the bay, until their confrontation with him in arc 17, when it supersedes Coil's story, and then intersects with Cauldron's story, the Traveler's story, the Case 53s' stories, the Wards' story, all of it, in arcs 18-19. This is one example. A great deal of attention is spent making sure the reader knows that Taylor, the Undersiders, Coil, all of them, are bit players in a very large game. Despite this, it's never hard to follow, because Wildbow, while lacking some of the more flowery prose, manages extremely well at making his stories easy to understand.

"I feel like even people who like Worm can agree that Worm is not the most consistent piece of fiction ever written. The disjointed way it was written meant that emphasis was primarily put on 'What Wildbow thought was cool in the moment', [sic] and the story RADICALLY shifts gears every time a new arc starts."

What? Huh? Worm is extremely consistent. Like. 1.1 to E.x. It's, like. Not disjointed? Oh my god, are you talking about interludes? Is that what you mean? The interludes shift gears? Because that makes sense. It's one of the hardest things about worm, yeah. It's gripping! The interludes are a great idea to expand the world of worm, but the problem is that taylor's story is so intriguing that stepping away from it to focus on something else is hard, no matter how individually interesting. I want to read about taylor's escalation spiral, not the travelers! (As opposed to My Hero Academia having random escalation and de-escalation between arcs with no real explanation. We're reading about lives-on-the-line battles with child-slavers and then move to playing on a playground with little kids? Best I can think of is that this whiplash is intentional, but this is never communicated to the reader. Worm does not do this. Any de-escalation is met with the explicit understanding that this is merely a period of calm before things get even worse). Taylor's story wraps up in an extremely narratively satisfying fashion, following her story to its logical conclusion. There were so many ways it could have been avoided, but there was really only one way that it could have ended.

"better worldbuilding,"

This actually offends me. MHA could have had great world-building. It doesn't. Every potentially interesting bit of world-building is backpedaled out of or stopped before it could get anywhere. Or it's just never elaborated or expanded upon. Everyone having a superpower could have been cool, but the implications of this are nonexistent. The reasons for this having no real implications, that being the banning of quirks, also has implications that are also immediately backpedaled out of. It's been hundreds of years since our time, yet life is exactly the same. Nothing ever happens. Endeavor is a cool concept. I like Endeavor. his existence implies such interesting things about the world, how important hero ranking is to these people's lives, that he would create this horrific system of domestic abuse to try and get to the #1 spot. What does this say about this system of heroes that operates like a popularity contest? It could have said a lot. It says nothing. What does the League of Villains, a league of people who call themselves out-and-out villains, who base their ideology in opposing this system of heroes, say about society? Nothing. On purpose. Worm does something with this. One Punch Man does something with this. My Hero Academia puts it in the story, and lets it sit, unused, for a decade.

Worm has... unique world-building. Because it's both good and bad at the same time. Worm's #1 feature is its world. It's brilliant, full stop. Triggers, The Birdcage, the PRT, Exclusion Zones! Why does the status quo exist? what does it say about that society? What does it say about our society? Why hasn't society radically changed from how it is in our world? This is explained. This plays into the themes. The story wants to say something about this world, and so it does. There are characters whose stories explicitly delve into these themes that are set up in the worldbuilding, like Armsmaster, or Battery, or Bonesaw, or Coil, or Piggot or Alexandria or Taylor herself or Brian or Lisa or ANY OF THEM THEY ALL DO THIS. Sorry.

Anyway, the bad part is that the actual world is not well built (and is kind of racist). What's going on in Europe? There's a 3 blasphemies! a 3 what? never explained. What's going on in Asia, aside from Japan? China is a monarchy for some reason. Why? It's never elaborated on. India gets a little bit of elaboration, we're told its different but not how it's different. Wildbow uses machine translation wrong and names some guy caliph of dogs. This is like worm's #2 problem honestly (#1 is Amy). Wildbow tries to make the implication of a well thought out globe without actually making a well thought out globe.

"stronger themes,"

It really doesn't. As I said in the worldbuilding section, MHA makes a point out of not saying or doing anything. I don't know if editors made Horikoshi walk back the more ambitious story beats or what, but there are multiple points in the story where the author pretty much looks you directly in the eye and goes "This Story Isn't Saying Anything At All Even Though It Looked Like It Would. Lmao."

Worm has lots of themes. I think Armsmaster/Defiant's story is my favorite. His entire character arc (which is fully realized despite him being a background character for nearly the entire story) has a point to it. It says something. It's misanthropic and uplifting simultaneously, and manages to feel like it earns both. It's a shared theme with Bonesaw/Riley's story, explored in two different ways.

"Meanwhile MHA establishes an actual overall theme/message right from the start that expands and develops throughout the story. The worldbuilding is informed by the message, which informs the characters arcs and the people they become by the end of the story."

I notice that you never actually say what that message is. What is it? Like, for real. I'm not being confrontational or anything, like what is the message? Cuz' I can't think of one. My Hero Academia, at its very core, is a defense of the status quo. Much like its world-building, but much less forgivable, because it does do something new and unique with its world-building. MHA could have done some extremely interesting stuff with its early implicit critique of heroic society as shown with characters like Bakugo, or Shigaraki, or Endeavor, or Overhaul, or Midoriya himself! It just doesn't! It doesn't do stuff that Worm does do!

Worm does have a message. It has a lot of messages, actually, some that the author disagrees with somehow. Prison abolition, for one. We know Wildbow loves prison. Anyway, the big one is in the subtitle: doing the wrong things for the right reasons. Taylor's constant spiral of escalation, her dwindling attachments to her friends and greater focus on treating herself like a soldier is prevalent, and it is to be avoided. Taylor isn't a sin-eater. They don't exist. From what I remember, this is sort of explored in Deku's character arc for a short period of time, but much like everything else in MHA, it is backpedaled out of.

The funniest is "don't text and drive" though.

"Just on a basic level the way that the audience is meant to feel about Taylor oscillates wildly between being directed to think of her as a misunderstood victim of circumstance, or history's greatest monster."

That's kind of the point. Like. the audience isn't meant to look at Taylor the same way throughout the entire story. It's meant to change as she changes. Taylor's opinion of Taylor changes. The mistake here is saying it "oscillates wildly." it doesn't. It's a slow and steady change for the worse, as Taylor gets more violent and starts throwing away greater and greater parts of herself to become more like a robot and less like a person.

"But a bigger issue in general is tone. It's very focused on being dark and gritty and edgy, and it makes the mistake a lot of consciously edgy media does. IE: it thinks that all it has to do to be smart is be bleak and/or graphic. It doesn't really try to say anything, in fact it contradicts itself throughout the book as I mentioned before, it just throws in extremely graphic scenes and content periodically to remind the audience how fucked everything is."

Did you read the boys and think it was worm? What? It's not being smart when it's bleak or graphic? I actually personally like the endbringers or the slaughterhouse 9, and not because I like watching people suffer. These things exist for a reason. It's not being dark for the sake of being dark. The heroes could stop the slaughterhouse 9. We see that, when they almost stop the slaughterhouse 9 (it's explicitly shown that they are stopped from destroying the slaughterhouse 9). The question then becomes why don't they? It's a grim, brutal calculus, and one that wasn't worth it. That's the point. The Endbringers are different. It's not until arc 27 that they're really explained. You could either read them as a criticism of Eidolon or of ableism, honestly. I mean, it wasn't intentional, he didn't create them on purpose, he needed something to fight, because without that he's nothing. His powers are all he has.

"Worm spends so much time trying to be edgy that as with a lot of edgy media the edginess loses all impact quite quickly and becomes sort of cringe."

I don't really think so, but like. Okay. I don't think this is a reconcilable viewpoint (none of this is really but this especially), so like we're probably gonna have to agree to disagree. The only thing I can really think of as edgy for the sake of edginess is Amy's arc. But even that's not really true. It's meant to be an utterly avoidable tragedy that could never have been stopped because of the people involved. Much like Taylor, actually. Amy could have stepped back from the brink, but she didn't, because Amy could never have done that, and nobody else was willing/able to help. It's supposed to be a thing where you sit back and think of all the tiny ways this could have easily been avoided, but wasn't.

"When body horror happens it still has impact because it's not happening constantly."

I mean, I guess. But like. I never got desensitized to the body horror in Worm. It hit pretty consistently for me throughout. As opposed to MHA, where it was usually walked back by the end of every arc. I never felt much tension or suspense because it felt as if there weren't actual consequences. In Worm, when Brian was strung up on his nerves, it felt disgusting because I was fully aware Worm would explore the ripple effects of this. It felt entirely possible he would die there, or never recover, because Worm didn't pull its punches. MHA did. This is a matter of opinion. We'll just have to agree to disagree about it.

"But most importantly - you root for the heroes because the world actually seems like it's worth saving."

that's just, um. sorry. I'm really trying here. That's just. Uh. Dumb. Do you root for Batman cause Gotham is a nice city? Everything's worth saving, that's, like, at its most basic what the concept of a superhero is about.

"Not only that but MHA simply does villain protagonists objectively better than Worm."

um. No? There straight up aren't villain protagonists in MHA. The villains are the POV characters for, like, one arc? You know what, here's a good spot for it. It's stated throughout the story that Shigaraki and the League of Villains have a goal, beyond just death and destruction. They're here to stop the corrupt society of heroes (that MHA hints at the existence of before backpedaling away from), and bring about a fairer society. But then, and this part pissed me off, one of the characters, I think Bakugo, says: "you're just using that as cover! you just want to kill people, you have no noble goal!" and shigaraki's like "dang you caught me." and then it happens again with Deku! Because My Hero Academia is allergic to saying something. Nope! They're villains! No moral depth here! They're Villains, We're Heroes, Go Put Them In Jail.

This is opposed to Worm, where- "The characters of the villains and their origins are used to highlight the flaws in the Superhuman society"

"Most of the villains are only villains because society failed them in some way, and the specific ways in which that happened become big plot points that then play into the future arc of our heroic characters."

I had to walk away from my computer for this one. It's hard to be civil. It's really hard. Polite and reasonable.

So Worm is about this. To even say this without a shred of irony makes me thing you've never once read a single word of Worm and are doing this purely as bait. Or you've read all of Worm and are doing this purely as bait.

"They're actually extremely complex in a way that ends up being fundamentally important to the overall story - where in Worm the villains are either based heroes fighting a corrupt system or they're histories [sic] greatest monsters... until they're presented as heroes again."

I think I get it now. I really think I do. You're not supposed to agree with all the characters. Like. Worm is inconsistent, in that it follows the perspectives of inconsistent people. Of course Triumph and Armsmaster don't agree on what is right! They're different people, they have different perspectives!

"See. Worm fans keep saying "This is Bait." It's not Bait, you all are simply ridiculous and obsessed with this series to such a degree that you feel compelled to say "This is Bait" instead of just... ignoring it, because you have no actual counterargument."

Perhaps worm fans are inclined to believe you posted rage bait because you brazenly walked into another fandom's post and wholeheartedly proclaimed that the thing they liked was Stupid Idiot Bullshit For Fucking Morons, and refused to elaborate until prompted, at which point you said several things that are demonstrably false about Worm.

"Your only response to anything I've said is pedantry, bigotry, and deflection. If it was obviously just bait why are you engaging?"

Well, I'm engaging because I've been in a foul mood since I woke up this morning. Also because you, again, said some very rude and patently false statements about a story that I really enjoy and find narratively rich, even in its faults.

"MHA's characters do fall into archetypal shounen character roles - but they are all given a solid amount of focus explaining why they are like that and developing them into something bigger."

Again, as I said, it's a genuinely impressive feat to have an ensemble cast like what My Hero Academia has, and give so many of the characters a degree of depth, with such little manga to work with. I think worm does it better, but worm doesn't have to be economical about it. MHA does. The problem I have with this statement is that it becomes a question of scale. How much bigger? They're no longer defined by their tropes, instead defined by their opposition to their tropes. It's still a one-note character, you've merely changed the note from C to C sharp.

"so almost every member of the cast has an arc that either develops them past the person they initially seemed to be or explains why they're like that."

This is probably my favorite part about MHA. They do have arcs! I love ensemble casts! it does a much better job in this than all of its contemporaries, even One Piece. However, they are comparatively simplistic arcs that all follow a similar formula.

"I've heard people say MHA is neocon or pro-establishment but the story literally concludes by showing that society HAS TO FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGE or the same problems that created the villains in the first place will keep happening. The entire time skip specifically focuses on the fact that for eight years the main characters have been forcing change in the world and addressing the issues the villains brought up."

Now, I'm going to be clear. I stopped reading My Hero Academia around chapter 275. I don't know the exact number, but it was the latest chapter in ~mid 2020. I would occasionally attempt to reread, in an attempt to catch up, but give up around chapter 200 out of boredom. I don't know exactly how the story ends, but I have read ~2/3rds of the story. I feel this gives me a pretty good understanding of the general tone of the story, unless it wildly changes tone at the 3/4ths mark, which you have explicitly said it does not, as it is extremely coherent and consistent. Therefore, I believe I can state with some degree of confidence that MHA does not do that.

I would certainly believe that it tries (and fails) to SFP it, but SFP does not promote a fundamental societal change. That's the problem. Strong Female Protagonist was willing to come up and say that Alison lived in a fundamentally unjust world, even if it was never willing or able to offer real change. And hey. You do what you can. I sincerely doubt My Hero Academia is even willing to call its world fundamentally unjust, from the 200+ chapters that I did read.

"In the case of the actual main characters, they have extremely comprehensive character arcs."

Adding this behind the last point just so that I don't have to reiterate I haven't finished the book. I am, however, very much not inclined to believe the actual main characters had extremely comprehensive character arcs.

Which plays back into the initial theory that ANYONE CAN BE A HERO.

man, spider-man did that better (not a real argument, but like, spider-man totally did that better). Not least because midoriya specifically could not become a hero were it not for all might giving him a power.

No, the Villains don't get happy endings,

Why not? Why do they go to jail, even the ones who changed and wanted to redeem themselves? Endeavor never goes to jail. He did some horrible stuff. He's redeemed himself in the eyes of the story, right? Anyone can be a hero, right? So why not them? Why haven't they redeemed themselves in the eyes of the story?

You may wish to turn this back on me and ask why doesn't Armsmaster go to prison? Because he's similar in some respects. But worm never calls prison justice. (for some reason, even though wildbow totally loves prison). Prison is punitive, a tool for those in charge to control those it manages to capture. Maybe some deserve life in the birdcage. Many don't. It doesn't matter. Because the birdcage isn't a tool of justice. It's not meant to be. it's a box to put the uncontrollable capes in, until they can be used as meat shields. So Armsmaster doesn't go to prison because the story says explicitly there is no point to it. But MHA? MHA says there is a point to it. Endeavor needs to go to prison if he wants to atone. He's escaping justice every second he's outside.

I have actually read Worm, and for the first half to two thirds I loved it.

Weird. That's exactly how long I really enjoyed MHA. Not, like relevant, to anything. Just odd. I mean, I don't actually dislike MHA. I think it's fine, actually. It feels like Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade to me. Funny (when Mineta isn't around), bombastic, and a good time, even if I don't think it's super thematically rich.

I'm not coming at this from the perspective of someone who has never seen any of the merits of Worm, I'm coming at it from the perspective of someone who really liked it, gave it a fair shot, and was eventually disappointed when it ended up not tying together right.

See, this makes me more inclined to think it's bait, actually. since you said "Oh yeah. MHA is published. MHA's been an ongoing publication with a large following for ten years, in a notoriously competitive industry. Now this might seem kind of unimpressive, it's a very low bar to clear I know. But it's one Worm hasn't, so. I dunno, I'd say that's fairly objective. Now you may think "Yeah, but Trash fiction gets published all the time." And that's true but again - Worm hasn't. The worst piece of fiction you can think of got published and Worm didn't. You wanna be an asshole about this? The thing you love is so mid that it was self published in 2013, couldn't get picked up for professional publishing until 2019 and as far as I can see has stayed in development hell since then." in your previous post. Sure, perhaps we can say you were pissed at the time, but "the thing you love is worse than trash fiction, an altogether nothing piece of literature that isn't even worth the paper it would hypothetically be printed on" does not strike me as the words of someone who "really liked it, gave it a fair shot, and was eventually disappointed when it ended up not tying together right." In fact, going back through your other statements on the story, you seem to have genuinely disliked it from the very beginning, on grounds of being too edgy (which I can fully understand the logic of): "IE: it thinks that all it has to do to be smart is be bleak and/or graphic," thematically incoherent: "It doesn't really try to say anything, in fact it contradicts itself throughout the book as I mentioned before, it just throws in extremely graphic scenes and content periodically to remind the audience how fucked everything is," and utterly devoid of purpose or meaning. "When it does introduce new lore that new lore is almost always overly convoluted and acts as a catalyst for things happening, but not really things happening that play into a wider theme or message. It's just "Oh and here's this team of god-level serial killers who are gonna string a dude up by his nervous system." Like yeah, cool visual, but what is any of this actually saying?" This does not sound like a ringing endorsement of the first half of Worm to me. In fact, this sounds like you hated every second of it.

"And frankly given the number of comments that are just people saying "Bait" - I don't think any of y'all have engaged with this in a fair or honest way"

I'm going to reiterate on my previous statement. I like my hero academia. Capeshit is my favorite genre, it probably always will be. They're my favorite genre of story. While I find the themes—or lack thereof—extremely frustrating, I still think of it as fun. I gave it a fair shake. I would probably really enjoy the ending if I didn't have a reading list that was 300 books long.

[gncrezan]

some old @chrysanthemumgames hermes-seph sketches!!! some of it is established-relationship daydreaming but also a peek at my dark and twisted mind (sprawling intricate spidey au)

[narastories]

On a slightly similar topic to my previous post, it amuses me to no end that:

A. Drakul spent two minutes talking to Harry and went: yeah, no, I'd rather kill him. Not even going to give him a join-up-or-die offer, because I can't stand the way he talks back.

B. Meanwhile Nicodemus spent years coming back, time and time again going out of his way to get Harry on his side. Even after multiple mutual murder attempts he just smugly rolls his eyes, talks through the nonsense that comes out of Harry's mouth, and goes: yes, I will take one more round with Dresden, thank you. Like, I'm sorry but that's a kink lol

[imadhatt3r]

This is going to sound really weird, I know, but I seriously feel like there's a number of like, British communists who desperately wish they were Eastern European??? Like they think that by being into political side of communism (usually not the kind that existed in Eastern Europe), they can be chummy with people who actually grew up in Eastern Europe and were raised with the communist era somewhere in the background their whole life, usually without knowing the nitty gritty of theory but with a lot of cultural herritage from that time...

Like no, there's a big difference between being British, being raised in British culture, with cultural institutions, history, traditions, then getting into communist theory and just assuming that you know everything about life in communist Eastern Europe, and then pulling a "how do you do fellow commies" to people from Eastern Europe whose associations with communism are much different, and they will see you as detached and insensitive at best.

[turtleblogatlast]

My rambling is always cut off by the tag limits 😔

[staying-elive]

Really weird to think about how Marvel keeps whining about mourning the loss of their original line-up, when blatantly neglecting their next most senior member in terms of actual Avengers team cred and actor longevity... yes, I'm talking about Sam. (of course I am lol)

Look here...

Tony, Steve, Nat, Maria = all dead

Clint, Bruce (not pictured), Thor = retired maybe? but no word on future appearances. Certainly no solo work on the slate. Passing the mantle?

Vision = dead. Wanda = evil and dead (lol), but complicated.

Rhodey stupidly got turned into a Skrull and while yes, he does have a movie coming, he's not heading it as a title hero. (Armor Wars)

Which leaves Sam. Captain America, thank you.

I just can't fathom (at least in-universe wise) why Marvel hasn't invested in building Sam up as part of a new Big Three.

The OG Big Three had a Science Guy, a Moral Compass Guy, and a Cosmic Guy.

Sam clearly fulfills the Moral Compass quota.

Science could've been Shuri and/or Scott

Cosmic could've been Carol

or could switch Cosmic for Mystic and have Doctor Strange handle that corner.

And that would've been the trifecta anchoring the new Phases. Add new characters like Shang Chi and Ms Marvel and Monica in around these core characters as needed and build from there, but anchor the new Saga with repeated (and timely!) check-ins with the core.

And Sam's the last (almost OG) active Avenger.

It's just crazy that he won't have been seen since 2021 to 2024. With nary a canonical film reference, by name, as Captain America.

[crystalkitty1220]

Man I wonder where the leader of the fear realm could've gone, it's alMOST LIKE NEVIN HAS AN

[moe-broey]

HELP maybe this is influenced by how I'm writing this, or maybe it was supposed to be gleaned from canon and I just. Haven't fully thought about it til now. Haven't Deeply analyzed it beyond the blaring alarm bells that go off when reading this. But. Alfonse's,

Straight into.

This isn't him doubling down. This is him BACKTRACKING. This is him going, "oh fuck I think maybe I came on a little too strong maybe I was a bit too vulnerable and that's really scary. How do I fix this" and he's running through all the dialogue options in his head like Okay. Play it Cool. Keep it Casual. Proclaim your undying loyalty and devotion to your Trusted Partner (person he just told in the beginning of this conversation that he didn't intend to become friends with) by making yourself a blade and shield for them. NAILED IT 👍

[bibuckleykinard]

how many times do we need to learn as people that irony and hyperbole can be harmful because 'jokes' aren't easily distinguished from genuine thoughts and feelings until we stop rewarding people for speaking or posting about violence

like even if you're joking/don't actually believe that/think whoever you are insulting is bad/immoral/fictional therefore deserves it - ad hominem attacks always do more harm to the people who share those characteristic then the individual you intend to cause harm to or discredit

[agena87]

Shawn Whaley, 19, Henford-On-Bagley

"Heard you were lookin' for a farm hand."

[mariemariemaria]

The new channel 4 documentary on the miners strike is fantastic. It covers different points of view, from the striking miners, to working miners, to the women in striking communities, to the police. It also shows how the Battle of Orgreave on 18th June 1984 was planned and initiated by the police, and how the media (BBC and ITV) covered this up and showed only the police's side, while positioning them as being the victims of miners' violence (which was very minimal to non existent in reality), who simply retaliated because the "restrained...traditional British policing way" (I have to laugh) didn't work.

I also didn't know until watching this that Gareth Peirce, who represented the Guildford Four and the Birmingham Six, also defended mineworkers who were victims of police brutality at Orgreave. What a woman!

[perilegs]

i'm such a greenpilled dark jade maxxer but i think ive made people associate me with blue a bit too much. my icon? blue. my blog? blue. my choice of board game pieces? blue. my reason for wanting to be player one in most games? having a blue character. why i want to play as player 2 in super mario for wii? blue toad.

[suffarustuffaru]

you wanna elaborate on the Heinkel-Otto parallels?

SURE THING ANON 👍👍 alright so a while back i made this reinhard-otto parallel analysis here if youre curious and wanna check that out - i also briefly go into how the suwen and astrea families have kind of sort of crossed paths? and also ottos hometown (picoutatte) is historically where ex novel drama involving wilhelm, theresia, stride, etc happened so theres that too!!

yeah so apart from the suwens and astreas having small connections in the past - regarding heinkel and otto specifically, i think the two biggest parallels are 1. the…. alcoholism……. and 2. certain. Aspects. of their personalities. im just gonna address the alcoholism first bc thats probably the most obvious parallel. (also im gonna go into arc 8 spoilers a bit btw!!)

so. i mean we all know heinkels an alcoholic - hes turned to alcoholism to deal with the Trauma Conga Line thats basically been his family history. and yeah. id say ottos an alcoholic too. when we're first introduced to otto in arc 3, hes off in a bar drinking to cope with getting into debt. in general he seems to drink often, which in story its acknowledged that yeah, hes a merchant, negotiations often include a bit of alcohol and otto knows hes gotta be able to hold his liquor - theres an arc 5 side story where he goes to find the dude he needs to restore the tome, ottos brought liquor as a gift, then they drink and thats why theres that one bit in arc 5 where otto shows up again late and hes drunk as hell lasjdfljds. but also like we get more confirmation that otto drinks to cope bc at the beginning of arc 5 after the emilia camp-ana camp meeting, hes drinking and complaining about how shitty the emilia camp's negotiation skills are to garfiel and subaru, who both act like this (otto getting drunk to deal with stress) is something that happens often. (im referring to the wn btw i dont have access to the ln hah)

(also this ask turned out very long so im putting the rest of it right under the cut)

This is what he's like when he's drunk. He's working a stressful job, so they give him his drinking time, but it might actually just encourage even more stress.

also additionally theres a few more alcohol-related things with otto. like how he gets drunk at the end of arc 4 knighting ceremony celebration - which yeah hah you can chalk up to him just you know drinking at a party to celebrate the occasion, but i swear otto 1. just keeps getting drunk on and off screen and 2. given otto is a very Anxious person, the timing of him getting drunk as hell at this party celebrating not just subarus knighthood but also like. officially marking safety - for now - and the end of all the arc 4 mindfuckery that otto got dragged into.... like the moment otto got reunited with alcohol again in arc 4 he decides to get blackout drunk akdndn. the timing is very interesting, i think. or maybe im just reading into that a bit too much hah but im 100% sure ottos an alcoholic anyway so.

(other alcohol stuff with otto includes him having to get banned from alcohol after he was bedridden bc of his arc 5 leg injuries + every time we see otto drink alcohol in canon he drinks to get drunk aidndnd. EVERY TIME.)

anyway moving on to other details. i think its interesting to look at heinkel and otto as characters and examine who they are as people and also their arcs bc 1. i do think theyre a bit similar in some ways and 2. this factors into Why their coping mechanisms are incredibly bad T^T

yeah so. heinkel as i said earlier. we all know hes dealing Badly with his familys entire trauma-filled drama. but i also think its interesting to examine him as a person in Full, and what i mean by that is - the heinkel we see in the main story is very different from the person he used to be. and we dont get a lot of content on younger heinkel specifically, but we get still get a Lot out of it. we see that he used to be a kinder person. he loved and doted on reinhard (when you have a four year old that sneaks out of the house just to see his dad bc he got worried about his dad and the moment he sees his dad he immediately goes up to him - like that shows TRUST). and heinkels given a lot of interesting descriptions in the once upon a time in lugunica side story that are very much at odds with how he is in the present day - he has a "gentle" face, "his voice and countenance was sweet", marcos explicitly tells him "It's time you stop being nice to everyone. It's because you're like this that you've been forced into a job you're not suited for." and this is also after we get the implication (?) that heinkel basically got peer pressured into being the one to ask marcos to come back and rejoin the knights.

marcos also purposefully pokes aggressively at heinkel's insecurities; you get the sense that heinkel is lonely, most likely friendless, an outcast even as hes simultaneously well known due to his family. marcos insults heinkels abilities as a swordsman, and marcos also harshly says that heinkels cocky and tries addressing marcos as if theyre friends when theyre not. "Since when were we such good pals, you and I? Surely you don't think so just because we have the same teacher? How many students does Bordeaux have? Are all of them your friends?" and heinkel tries his best but ultimately hes in the shadow of his family and hes expected to be able to keep up while also looking after reinhard and desperately trying to find a cure for his wife (who was most likely his only Equal and close companion).

but heinkel in the end always falls short of expectations. hes painfully aware of this, with the implication that its always been this way basically for the majority of his life, if not all of his life. and being an astrea and being a knight means that hes watched very closely - or at least thats what i think is the most likely case. so when you compare younger heinkel and current heinkel, you also get the sense that he eventually burned out and gave up even trying that hard at much of anything. thats why he kind of doesnt give a shit most of the time about being harsh and mean, lashing out, saying almost anything he wants, doing what he wants but also failing miserably at that 99% of the time, and also he falls deeper into his alcoholism too and doesnt care about showing this either. hes very publicly a disgrace. he knows this. hes an emotional wreck and he cant crawl out of his own failures, so why care about what other people think? why try to fix himself? its too late. hes a miserable man only driven by 1. spite towards his family and 2. trying to find a cure for his wife and 3. his own alcoholism and 4. possibly his kind of sort of care for schult (aka heinkels reinhard replacement T^T). and we see in arc 7 and 8 too that hes so depressed and tired and jaded after dealing with a lifetime of failure that he just. kind of gives up. last time we see him in arc 8 hes being dragged around by groovy and rowan and he was drinking with rowan in the middle of a zombie apocalypse.

so. what about this is similar to otto?

well, otto and heinkel both struggle with dealing with their emotions and insecurities. with heinkel thats pretty easy to see, but with otto its harder to see until you hit the really Obvious parts (arc 8). like yeah, otto gets flustered a lot, hes simultaneously sensitive but at the same time hes pretty independent, he can handle himself, he's dependable - right? but the thing with otto is that he and heinkel both have a habit of lashing out. theyre anxious. they turn to numbing behaviors to cope. theyre pushed around by external factors but at the same time theyre also reckless and do things that speed towards inevitably helping in destroying themselves. they both have friendless and lonely backstories, theyre Extremely aware about their own weakness and powerlessness especially when it comes to dangers theyre up against and especially when it comes to comparing themselves to others. they get Very angry at people they love(d), which makes them get aggressive, and for heinkel we know for sure that theres a LOT of resentment there, and for otto, the anger is Bordering on resentment if it isnt already kind of resentment at this point. theyre also haunted by their failures - with heinkel this is more obvious, but i think once you examine otto deeper hes also kind of dealing with this too.

that, and - while otto hasnt hit rock bottom like heinkel has, i think that if otto keeps going down the path hes on now, hes gonna end up hitting that rock bottom and end up having a similar fate to heinkel right now. bitter. jaded. tired. burnt out and angry and miserable. which, when you look at the ifs - yeah any otto that ends up enslaved by russell fellow ends up bitter, jaded, tired, and an empty shell of himself. and this is also, of course, assuming that the main otto permadeath flags dont happen aljsdfljsd. because if you remember otto's third trial line, it was something along the lines of "if that's the case, then you should've left me in that cave (to die)!" (correct me if im wrong) which 1. sounds like something he would say at any point in the current arc 8 otto-related conflicts and 2. my guess is that this line is referring to when otto was captured by the witch cult in arc 3 and put in a cave. otto is eventually gonna reach a point where he just goes "well you shouldve left me to die in that cave then" which. you know, its not boding well for him hah.

and yeah so. ok im gonna try and elaborate a bit more on some of what i just said about heinkel and otto hah bc its a whole list.

heinkel and otto, i think, have spent so much of their lives with factors out of their control while simultaneously making decisions that make things worse for themselves.

of course with otto, this also manifests as his bad luck - his luck is so bad that he nearly drowned as a baby in the bath, in addition to generally being clumsy his whole life. like this is "getting fucked by the universe itself" levels of bad luck. then you have the impact otto's dp left on him which leads to him having problems with socializing with others, which also leaves him friendless and also bullied growing up (see: people ostracizing him and calling him a "freak") and later he gets chased out of the town by assassins...... then he almost gets sold into slavery, gets captured by the witch cult and almost dies to them, etc...... yeah its a lot. but then you get to otto CHOOSING to save roswaal's tome and that tome being one of the demands the witch cult makes during the arc 5 siege. and then otto gets injured by ley as a punishment for this. he spends time being bedridden, having to be banned from alcohol, knowing that some of his friends are off on some dangerous mission that he cant do anything about, and also he cant be his usual workaholic self either. when we see otto again in arc 7-8, he's participating in a full fledged WAR. and he's decided to dedicate himself to opposing subaru despite being warned that he'll destroy himself doing so. otto is making Poor Decisions right now.

otto turns to micromanaging to deal with all of this, while heinkels the one whos at the point where he gives up. he cant really go on without being pushed along. he collapses to his knees in the middle of the battlefield in arc 7 and he admits out loud that he cant do this (specifically addressing louanna as he does). for otto, he's dealt with his biggest more traumatic events thatve caused the most change in him (pre-arc 3 and arcs 3-8) all crammed in the past year. for heinkel, he's been dragged through the dirt by life and his own decisions for around the past twenty years of his life. thats more than HALF of his life. hes thirty-nine, which, yeah thats older than a lot of the cast but thats only because so much of the cast is in their twenties and under. thirty-nine is not that old. especially when you remember that that means heinkel had reinhard when he was nineteen.

but again, we dont get too much content from heinkels pov directly, but theres no denying that much of the shit happening to him is also his fault. hes ultimately self-destructive and hes also pretty much destroyed his relationship with reinhard (and people like carol and grimm, judging off of how carol understandly reacts negatively to heinkel and grimm likely follows suit), which really DID NOT need to happen. yeah. all the astrea drama involving louanna falling into a coma, theresia dying, wilhelm being an Ass, reinhard being the sword saint, the astreas in general being watched and controlled by the kingdom, and general expectations from the world are all out of heinkel's control. what couldve happened, however, is that heinkel couldve done his best to be an adult and a parent to reinhard - ESPECIALLY when he still had carol and grimm to help out with that - which wouldve turned out better for both himself and reinhard. but that didnt happen.

heinkel turned on his own son and pushed everyone away. otto has similar isolating behaviors, because like heinkel, otto doesnt actually talk to anyone in a way that makes himself vulnerable. heinkel and otto arent actually close with anybody. which, again, isnt helped by the General unpleasant aspects of their personalities (anger, irritation, lashing out, etc).

its hard to see otto's isolation more than heinkel (who is very clearly hated by a bunch of people, his wife has been in a coma for ages, and basically almost no one respects him so like. OF COURSE he doesnt have anyone to confide in), but i think that it gets more clear when you look at otto closely. yeah, otto usually makes it clear when hes annoyed or irritated or angry about something, and otto does things like declare hes subarus friend or open up about his backstory to the emilia camp in various side stories - but hes never actually more vulnerable. when you look at him talk about his backstory, it doesnt feel like theres emotion attached to it - its more like "yeah this happened and this happened". its more factual. and then you remember that he doesnt actually talk about his feelings any deeper than that with Anyone. hes either got his head stuck in work, or theres the occasional "otto sneaks off and gets drunk" scene, or theres all the times where otto goes "yeah so i did this for you, subaru, but im not gonna tell you why or anything" or "yeah i will totally leave at the first sign of danger", or otto only lets himself be a tiny bit vulnerable at a time. like when he tells subaru that theyre friends, or when he reunites with subaru in arc 8 and takes the time to sneak into the room just to quickly say that hes glad that subarus back and to not worry that much. but its absolutely more focused on other people, namely subaru, and not otto. his problem in arc 8 is that hes keeping all his feelings to himself because its all connected to all his other secrets (his arc 8 plans). hes open about being pissed off about staying in vollachia, but its more so "this is a dumb decision and puts us in danger, the more logical route would be to leave" and less "im afraid that we might get hurt the longer we stay here and its making me anxious and angry". he doesnt ACTUALLY talk to anyone in depth about whatever the hell his issues are (roswaal doesnt count bc otto just brushes off roswaal's warnings), he just insists on dealing with it himself like he does with almost anything. his tsundere habits are normally played for laughs, and yeah it IS amusing. but no completely well-adjusted person deals with intimacy by getting all pissy like otto does. why did he see subaru in the forest in arc 4 and immediately jump to punching subaru and giving a "this is why you suck, but also please just let me help you" speech?

and when it comes to like - complicated issues regarding Relationships, you look over at heinkel too and heinkel still misses reinhard. heinkel wouldnt need to use schult as a reinhard replacement if heinkel didnt actually miss reinhard deep down. theres like a love-hate dynamic there when it comes to heinkel and reinhard - heinkel hates reinhard the sword saint. but heinkel misses his son, which is interesting because schult Conveniently looks and acts like how a younger reinhard would, right? heinkel and little kid reinhard was most likely the last time heinkel was ever happy, judging off of the trajectory of heinkels life so far. reinhard is the last person that heinkel has left, and reinhards near silence when hes anywhere near heinkel says so much because there USED to be love there. but heinkel very much obviously resents reinhard now because after reinhard kills theresia in arc 5, heinkel VOWS to make reinhards life a living hell.

its kind of like a version of otto deciding to oppose subaru but to a Much Further extent, because otto doesnt hate subaru. but otto hates subaru's actions in arc 8 because it puts subaru in danger. but again, ottos playing with fire here because the ottosuba conflict is pitting them against each other and Resentment and Anger are gonna come out of that. and i think that otto misses subaru, because the arc 8 conflict is drifting them further apart more than ever. ottos afraid to lose subaru, so hes been going to extremes to not lose subaru. heinkel, i think, thinks that hes Already lost the reinhard that he loved. so turning to schult + getting rid of the current reinhard is the next best thing. otto is still clinging onto subaru with all his might, basically. which ironically is what heinkel was doing with reinhard - especially with Everything going on with the astreas - until that switch from "reinhard is my son and he wouldnt kill his grandmother" to "this is all reinhard's fault" happened somewhere around when reinhard was five or so. that switch wasnt instant. you dont go from loving to hating someone in an instant in most cases, and we know that heinkel defended reinhard from wilhelm at first. this change was gradual, the cracks just started then.

we're seeing these cracks happen with ottosuba, because subaru is ottos closest relationship. theres something to be said too, about the slight parallel between heinkel-louanna and otto-subaru in the sense that i think that theres a very likely chance that heinkel knows that even if louanna wakes up, she most likely wont like him anymore. and theres no way that heinkel doesnt know that things wont be the same anymore with her anyway because she was frozen in time. shes twenty years old. the same age as their son. shes missed Way Too Much, and if she even still remembers anyone, shes absolutely not going to approve of heinkel being an absolute asshole. and i think heinkel hates himself too much NOT to notice - at least a little bit - this. that louanna might just end up hating him in the end. but heinkels one redeeming quality now is that hes still dedicated to his wife all these years later. hes been trying to find a cure for her since he was twenty one years old. theres a side story where we see him in the present tracking down a possible lead and being absolutely devastated AGAIN that the lead was a dead end and theres still no cure. and this is with the possibility that heinkel knows that louanna might end up hating him when she wakes up anyway.

and otto, with all of his intelligence and how much time he devotes to doing things behind subaru's back, most likely knows that subaru will end up angry and devastated and might even hate otto if he ever finds out about ottos plans regarding louis/spica. like imagine being subaru and you find out that otto, someone you very deeply trust, has been keeping secrets so that your DAUGHTER dies. like this is relationship ruining shit, and theres no way that otto doesnt know that. otto knows that subaru cares about her. otto knows all about subarus love for others and his self-sacrificial tendencies. thats why ottos keeping all these secrets - he knows subaru wouldnt approve and he does it anyway. i know i love to joke about how otto is basically hitting subaru with a car and then trying to nurse him back to health like a baby bird but that is quite LITERALLY what otto is trying to do.

also regarding otto and heinkel being insecure about their weaknesses: heinkel is clear with this - the dude has been scrutinized by everyone for at least the past twenty years, AND everyone else in his family from theresia to wilhelm to reinhard is more powerful and capable than he is. this is also not helped by heinkels alcoholism, general mental instability, and reoccurring failures - failing to measure up to expectations, failing to find a cure for louanna, theresia almost killing him in arc 5 and then being killed by reinhard in front of him, and the first time theresia died was because she went on the white whale mission in heinkels stead because he was too afraid to go on it and KNEW that he wasnt fit for that mission. AND THEN reinhard got her sword saint dp. heinkel has dealt with a lot of failure in his life. it made him bitter and harsh but its worn him down. otto is the one whos gotten Sharper because of his own failures.

with otto, we dont see much insecurity about his powerlessness UNTIL arc 8 is extremely straightforward about it with "walking in light/darkness". otto compares himself to julius, emilia, subaru, and says that they walk in the light while he walks in the dark. its honestly sad to see - this is otto acknowledging that he CANT be as good as julius, emilia, and subaru. otto straight up lists their good traits - their idealism, their determination, their ability to see the good in things and try their absolute best at that - and otto says that he cant do it. otto acknowledges that hes basically useless compared to them unless he resigns himself to the "darkness" - so he takes up being an enemy, essentially, to subaru as his reason to live on. its quite frankly depressing and self-destructive. hes going "i cant be good like them, so why try? i'll go another path even if it kills me" which i think is a sentiment heinkel can relate to.

but heinkel and otto think that theres no other option than what they are Now when thats clearly not the case. and they need to see that theres Other Ways to go about their lives. theres no need to stay in the darkness forever, which is the key problems they need to deal with at the moment.

and one last quick note - yeah, heinkel and otto are the black sheep of their family. of course, the suwens have an actual healthy family dynamic while the astreas are a whole mess of generational trauma, but otto notes that hes lead to a lot of trouble for his family. iirc in the arc 4 wn he calls himself a burden on them too and how he'd like to pay them back for all the years they looked after him despite all the trouble he brought (you know, regarding ottos dp, that one time he caused a bug swarm in the town, being chased out by assassins, etc). otto is basically the unwitting "trouble child" of the family. this is a fact that also increases when you remember the ifs - in every if, either otto ends up dead, sold into slavery, or hes main otto whos stuck in the middle of a war right now and is willing to get his hands dirty. otto is known to his whole family as someone who gets into trouble, and they all worry about him but purposefully make a point to not think about him too much or theyll get anxious thinking about wtf hes even doing.

meanwhile heinkel is a black sheep with his own family in the sense that 1. this is even reflected in his character design with the sheer amount of black and brown hes wearing - just take a look at his design compared to the rest of his family and 2. hes way weaker compared to everyone else (not counting louanna) and 3. hes distant from all of them. wilhelm, theresia, reinhard. regarding wilhelm and theresia - we dont know much about their parenting when it comes to heinkel, but its interesting to note that it seems that even before everything went Wrong, it may have been a bit distant. when theresia tells wilhelm that heinkel cant go on the white whale mission, wilhelm calls heinkel a coward. i know that like all these characters are thinking with Medieval Logic, but its still a Cold thing to say. if heinkels not ready for that mission, then hes going to fucking die on that mission, which doesnt seem to occur to wilhelm. like yeah, theresias sworn off sword sainting and its a whole Thing that shes got trauma about. but theresia the sword saint logically wouldnt have died on that mission if it wasnt for pandora + losing her dp suddenly. heinkel on the other hand most likely wouldve died if he went on that mission.

and post-Everything Going Wrong in the Astrea Family, in arc 5, theresia is dying again and her last words are ONLY for wilhelm. she has more than enough time in her last moments to spare AT LEAST a quick "love you" for reinhard or heinkel but she doesnt. she has nothing to say to her son and grandson, and heinkel notes that theresia looked hatefully at him and reinhard. heinkel specifically says something along the lines of "who else could that have been but mother?" after noting how she looked at him too. yeah, heinkels an unreliable narrator who thinks that everyone around him hates him just like he hates himself (see: his narration in arc 7 thinking that another character is looking at him angrily when that character from their pov just Pities him). but at the same time - theresia not having anything left to say to her son and grandson is not a good look. and wilhelm deciding to turn his back on five year old reinhard, and most likely heinkel for trying to defend reinhard at the time, is not a good look either. this is also not helped by heinkel again being very Publicly an absolute wreck, so of course no one respects him.

so yeah uh. tldr: heinkel is an extreme version of ottos worst traits in a lot of ways and otto is just the one thats a little better at looking put together while heinkels so damn tired hes given that up a long time ago. and if otto keeps trying to do questionable shit hes gonna end up miserable in a very heinkel-like way. they are both pretty sad and pathetic and also in desperate need of psychiatric help <3 also they need to ACTUALLY address their core issues and feelings or they are going to keep being fucked in that darkness forever for sure.