#i do appreciate this input though anon i needed a little bit of grounding before going into this

[titsthedamnseason]

Babe boys of tommen is literally the worst thing I've ever read and I've read a fuck ton. Please for the love of God don't read that absolutely infantalising book it will rot you but also you will still wanna try and check it out but if you do I beg you to dnf as soon as you feel the urge that it's not going well because I wasted 200 pages reading that and the plot didn't progress 5% in that time. Anyways its literal trash, collen hoover books look good in front of it anyways just a heads up 🤠

wow you are literally the first person i’ve EVER heard say anything like this and i’m glad you did because my expectations probably needed to be managed a little bit lol

respectfully i’m still going to read it because i’ve wanted to for a very long time and idek who you are 💀 tbh bad / trashy books are pretty much my exact taste so while i don’t expect it to be the height of literature i think the entertainment value will likely be worth it for me. plus i just like being in the know with popular books / series. admittedly this one is MUCH longer than most things i let myself get roped into

i would be genuinely shocked if i found it WORSE than colleen hoover but ill probably do a decent amount of live-blogging my opinions so you can follow along on how my thoughts evolve :)

[jinxofthedesert]

Hi there!!! It is the same anon that requested some fic recs ☺ Thank you so much! I may give them a read! They look very interesting! But tbh I'm looking for fics that deal with some more in-depth approach to the twins' psychology and character (I don't mind the romance. In fact, I think it's a really interesting plus to the story when handled well).

(Below this is the rest of the messages, put together. Farther down, below the line, are my responses)  

 I’ve usually seen that the twins are portrayed as soft, loving and caring guys with their partners without real motives for such drastic change of dynamics in their twisted personalities. I mean, the usual Valeska centered fic goes like this: they meet the OC in Arkham or during their childhood in the circus and for some reason they reunite in the present, and then it is just the twins somehow falling for them, changing their whole way of being and only wanting to bang the OC the whole time (without taking into account the lack of the OC's inner conflict about loving such twisted men, because these OCs usually are "sane" and good people that somehow are dragged into the twins' world and for some reason they just fall in love with them without questioning it). But for me the least realistic thing about these fics is that the twins become super nice guys all of a sudden. I mean of course there can be character develoment and growth (up to a certain point), but I haven't really found a story that contains such deep explanation. Let's face it, they're still psychos no matter what, even if they have a partner.  In the last season we get a glimpse of how Jeremiah treats Ecco, someone that he used to appreciate and care for deeply, and she still meant little to him. So it doesn't add up to me when the twins are magically turned into these super sweet caring guys while their twisted, evil and manipulative side is completely ignored. I am not saying they can't love, I am just saying that they surely have their own twisted perception of what love is 🤔 Sorry for my rambling, damn, it took soooooo many comments hahaha!!! OMG, Sorry!😂😂 I had a LOT to say 😂😂😂 But I just find these characters very interesting and I would love to read a story with a more realistic approach to the construction of their personalities (and their twisted way of loving too!). Let me know, please, if you happen to know about some fics/authors 😘 thanks again! 

- - - - - - - - -  Hi again, anon! I’m sorry my list of content in the previous ask wasn’t exactly what you were looking/hoping for. As of right now, besides the ones I sent you that may delve a little bit below the surface, I can’t think of a true ‘character study’ type story that I have read so far. But, again, I usually stay in the area of romance so I wouldn’t be surprised if there are such fics out there under a different genre.

I’ll be quite honest, it’s been a very long time since I’ve read any oc/(input character here), including ones with the twins. Normally, I forget they exist until someone brings it up or I stumble across one on Tumblr accidentally. I do agree, the twins suddenly changing for an OC (or anyone) can be a bit unrealistic but from my years of reading and writing, creating stories with such things is a bit of ‘wish fulfillment’ which, to be honest, isn’t a bad thing. Sometimes a reader just needs content that is kind of good-feeling type fic (though not in a sense of how murderous the twins can be but in them getting some kind of positivity in their lives, whether it be through an OC or another character in the universe). When I wrote Oc’s at the beginning, it was either wish fulfillment for me or simply just wanting these characters I adored to finally have some kind of happy ending which they probably did not deserve, at all. 

A reason you might not find such content is also because, character studies are hard. Especially if you don’t have a complete picture of the character. With the twins, a lot is just coming up with stuff, imaging their past and how it still affects them, even if, on the upper layer we’re shown, doesn’t portray those scars left behind. 

With Oc’s, they can usually be pretty hit or miss. It’s not like you’re taking an already known character with known flaws and putting them in your story. Those characters have a foundation already built. For an Oc, the writer has to literally make someone from the ground up, which is equally as hard without making them seem too whiny, too mary-sue like, or just too problematic. This can leave a lot to be desired which can create something unrealistic as well. That’s why I usually only look for content centered around characters from the show, instead of Oc’s; like with Bruce and the twins because canon-wise there is already something there (depending on how you look at it and write it). 

In regard to Ecco: firstly, I think it’s arguable what type of relationship she even has with Jeremiah when we first are introduced to them. We’re shown some concern on his end when she’s clearly been hypnotized but this can be seen as a boss concerned for an employee, an employee who he’s probably had for awhile now and is one of the very rare few who he trusts to an extent. However, we just don’t know much of anything about their relationship or past together. She might have hardly seen him, only contacting him through phone calls and text messages; she may have only brought him supplies through the maze and never was in his inner personal areas. This treatment is all possible given how Jeremiah is quite literally a paranoid mess before the spray, no matter how well put-together he appears. And, if we’re to compare this to his eventual obsession with Bruce Wayne, we can take a guess that Jeremiah and Ecco probably didn’t get very deep with this connection they had. Mainly because with just a few compliments, Jeremiah is invested in Bruce, something we don’t see with Ecco before or after the spray. So we have Bruce enter the picture (someone who has run into his twin on multiple occasions, a fact Jeremiah must know to some extent with his paranoia probably leading him to constantly check newspapers and the news for info on Jerome) and, if you look at things from Jeremiah’s perspective, besides complimenting him, Bruce looks at him and only sees Jeremiah. And this would be baffling to Jeremiah if he knows the affect Jerome has had on Bruce, for him to look at Jeremiah and not see his twin after everything would be just as big a compliment as anything because it’s differentiating him from his twin. Someone who has probably feared being compared to his brother, for people to look at him and only see Jerome (such as what occurs with Jim and Harvey only hours prior). Because of this, when compared to Ecco, we can deduce that either their conversations never went in such a direction, or she hardly had the extended physical contact to ever bring up Jerome or compare or compliment. If so, it’s possible with how Jeremiah is that something similar could have happened with Ecco. And this eventually leads into the spray where his only true attachment is not Ecco but with Bruce, especially, after his initial spray, Jeremiah’s hatred for Jerome is far worse than it had been before, making Bruce’s assessment of Jeremiah simply being himself and not his brother, far more endearing as well. So, in comparison to Bruce, Ecco means absolutely nothing to him, a means to an end. 

I’ll admit, reading content where the twins are somehow in a relationship (with an oc or canon character) while still being rather insane, are quite interesting. However, for stuff like that to work in a compelling and ‘actual’ way, characters like that have to be bent because these characters logistically working in that kind of environment may never be realistic anyways. This can be worked around of course, but it takes so much time and effort; even now, as I write my stories for Gotham, I’m still trying to work around how to make these ships work for the twins because they’re stubborn and although they have obsessions they, at their cores are not good people and while they may try, seriously try to better themselves, there will always be slip-ups.

I do agree, they can love but it would always be twisted in some way or another (look no further than Jeremiah with Bruce). They’re also a lot of fun to take apart and analyze or try and come up with a type of background that works with all the hints we’ve been given. Background-wise, the twins are really something a writer can make their own which is an interesting concept.

This turned more so into a long ramble of writing and Ocs and lots of Gotham lol but anyways, I wish I could give you a story to fit your needs. I quite hate when I have an itch for certain fics and I either can’t find them or the number of fics is so daunting that I don’t dare even try. I would recommend just going through them, possibly looking for complete content first, or ones with high hits or kudos (depending on the site you’re searching on) because I don’t have any at the moment I can suggest. 

(Honestly the ideas for the twins never stop coming lol, perks of their backgrounds and everything else being so hazy.)

I hope some of this message was at least interesting lol and I do wish you luck in finding good twin content that delves into their character or, maybe you’ll get lucky and someone will publish something like that soon! Either way, I hope you find something 😘

[ill-be-istj-if-no-one-else-is]

1\Hi Em! I’d like your typing help if you don’t mind but first I just want to thank you for your advice I read about a year ago to go out and be a Person first before being a Type. That advice pulled me out of a slump where I was way too hard up about defining myself and other people with theories without considering their empirical basis. Anyway, I suspect I’m an INFJ 1 (162?) but I’m a little sceptical of actually being this supposed rare unicorn hype-type and would appreciate your input.

2\I really like planning ahead – daily schedules, which classes to take each semester, etc. I’ve been organising my personal schedule with detailed monthly calendars consistently since I was 18 (I’m now going on 22). I get frustrated easily when there are sudden timing changes, like people cancelling or being very late, and tend to need at least a day’s notice to be mentally prepared, even if it wouldn’t really affect my other activities, which I acknowledge can be a bit irrational.            

           3\I’m a good listener – I’ve been told this by several friends. I haven’t always been the best at advice but my strat is to ask the heck out of the situation that’s bothering them to help them open up about all the different aspects of their concerns. I think it makes them feel thoroughly heard and I enjoy helping them to process their thoughts and feelings without sharing much about myself, if I can see they don’t have that capacity in the moment. Their confidence is rewarding for me too.            

4\However, I’ve realised this might be an unhealthy double-edged sword because I apply the same standard to people who’d like to share my burdens. I tend not to volunteer much info unless asked directly/shown clear signs that my listener wants to hear me out, leading me to dismiss the good intentions of my more easily distracted friends. Also I’d have analysed my feelings from 1000 angles before verbalising so I usually won’t open up unless I’m sure they’re willing to stick around for all of it.            

5\In middle/high school, I was naturally sporty enough/had decent enough spatial awareness to be selected to join sports teams (I did netball and then ultimate frisbee) but performed quite poorly in competitive training because I just couldn’t get a lot of basic stuff right. I also could never really get along with my teammates, who tended to be louder and more social, in contrast to how much better I fit in and how many more interests I shared with my more academically-inclined classmates.            

6\I read a lot of fiction, but ironically I’m terrible at telling stories about things that have happened to me. I remember random details about people like their birthdays and little habits, but when it comes to reimagining a specific event, I can never string together a retelling that comes across as engaging to a listener: either I rush it and give the gist/punchline too early or spend too long filling in atmospheric details that give the “vibe” of the scene but with poor narrative structure.            

7\I’m interested in analysing group dynamics! and how subtle behaviour can affect the overall atmosphere of a social setting. Lack of consensus bothers me, although I try to understand where each person is coming from and rationalise whether their logic “makes sense”. I picked civil engineering as my major because it felt like a waste to drop STEM subjects, which I’d been doing well in, but I’m increasingly leaning towards pursuing urban planning in future because of its sociological aspects.            

8\Other facts: I didn’t have much of a Rebellious Teen phase, I’ve kinda always been the good/smart kid growing up and am probably still lowkey elitist (though I’m working on that). Hypocrisy bugs me a lot. I track my expenses religiously and rarely splurge. I really enjoy learning but I’m all for conceptual understanding – having to do heavy memorising puts me off.   Thanks for your time in reading this and let me know if you need clarification/better examples on anything. Have a nice day!             

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Hi anon,

I’ll go through this but everything here sounds a lot more like the Si-Ne axis than the Ni-Se axis. I think aux Fe is possible but not guaranteed, and I’m not really getting anything for enneagram except possibly 6.

My guess is ISFJ, but there were a few things that implied a certain rigidity and I don’t know if it’s coming from Si+Fe, or if your Si is actually auxiliary. I’m pretty sure ISFJ is correct but if it doesn’t seem right, that would be worth digging into.

The part about disliking interruptions to your plans is more a high Ni or Si thing. The part that gave me pause is the super-detailed schedule because I’ve never done that and a lot of the high Si users or Ni users I know don’t - like, they have a clear mental schedule, and important appointments are obviously marked off, and they don’t like sudden changes, but unless they’re exceptionally busy (and maybe you are) a lot of it is purely in their head and not a detailed start to finish day. If I’m misinterpreting and that’s what you meant, then disregard this.

The part about being a good listener definitely sounds like an Fe approach. It also sounds like a possible low Ne approach. An INFJ wouldn’t really be approaching the problem from every possible angle or focusing on asking direct questions; you also note that you look for clear signs or cues that it’s okay for you to share, rather than making inferences. The extensive emotional analysis sounds like lower Ti, as does the interest in group dynamics.

The part about sports isn’t super helpful; I think a lot of exceptionally good at sports people have high Se, but mediocre or bad at sports doesn’t really mean much. Similarly I haven’t really seen a pattern of if someone can tell a story well and MBTI; there are at least two factors (recall and understanding what’s engaging to others) and you have to be good at both to be good at storytelling. The difficulty with your teammates sounds probably just like general introversion and perhaps some social awkwardness.

I will say your statements about picking civil engineering and group consensus made me briefly think INTP, but I think unless you’re fairly unhealthy your lack of spontaneity rules that out.

Finally: I want to cover conceptual understanding here. You are very specifically interested in very pragmatic, applied things: civil engineering and sociology. You provided a ton of details elsewhere. And then, at the end, you mention a preference for conceptual understanding with no details about it.

This doesn’t mean it’s not true, but it does call into question what you mean by conceptual understanding. I think people divide things into rote memorization and conceptual understanding with no middle ground between, and that’s a big factor in people mistyping as intuitives. I think very few people actually enjoy rote memorization; I went into the physical sciences and math, in fact, because I dislike the rote memorization of, say, biology, but I like things where you can reason through problems from a few first principles and derive things and do actual hands-on experiments.

If ISFJ seems really off to you, let me know, but in that case I would guess aux Ne with something else driving the ‘needs closure’ aspects of your personality, rather than anything with Ni.