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religion-is-a-mental-illness · 2 years ago

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By: Jon Haidt

Published: Mar 9, 2023

In May 2014, Greg Lukianoff invited me to lunch to talk about something he was seeing on college campuses that disturbed him. Greg is the president of FIRE (the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression), and he has worked tirelessly since 2001 to defend the free speech rights of college students. That almost always meant pushing back against administrators who didn’t want students to cause trouble, and who justified their suppression of speech with appeals to the emotional “safety” of students—appeals that the students themselves didn’t buy. But in late 2013, Greg began to encounter new cases in which students were pushing to ban speakers, punish people for ordinary speech, or implement policies that would chill free speech. These students arrived on campus in the fall of 2013 already accepting the idea that books, words, and ideas could hurt them. Why did so many students in 2013 believe this, when there was little sign of such beliefs in 2011?

Greg is prone to depression, and after hospitalization for a serious episode in 2007, Greg learned CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy). In CBT you learn to recognize when your ruminations and automatic thinking patterns exemplify one or more of about a dozen “cognitive distortions,” such as catastrophizing, black-and-white thinking, fortune telling, or emotional reasoning. Thinking in these ways causes depression, as well as being a symptom of depression. Breaking out of these painful distortions is a cure for depression.

What Greg saw in 2013 were students justifying the suppression of speech and the punishment of dissent using the exact distortions that Greg had learned to free himself from. Students were saying that an unorthodox speaker on campus would cause severe harm to vulnerable students (catastrophizing); they were using their emotions as proof that a text should be removed from a syllabus (emotional reasoning). Greg hypothesized that if colleges supported the use of these cognitive distortions, rather than teaching students skills of critical thinking (which is basically what CBT is), then this could cause students to become depressed. Greg feared that colleges were performing reverse CBT.

I thought the idea was brilliant because I had just begun to see these new ways of thinking among some students at NYU. I volunteered to help Greg write it up, and in August 2015 our essay appeared in The Atlantic with the title: The Coddling of the American Mind. Greg did not like that title; his original suggestion was “Arguing Towards Misery: How Campuses Teach Cognitive Distortions.” He wanted to put the reverse CBT hypothesis in the title.

After our essay came out, things on campus got much worse. The fall of 2015 marked the beginning of a period of protests and high-profile conflicts on campus that led many or most universities to implement policies that embedded this new way of thinking into campus culture with administrative expansions such as “bias response teams” to investigate reports of “microaggressions.” Surveys began to show that most students and professors felt that they had to self-censor. The phrase “walking on eggshells” became common. Trust in higher ed plummeted, along with the joy of intellectual discovery and sense of goodwill that had marked university life throughout my career.

Greg and I decided to expand our original essay into a book in which we delved into the many causes of the sudden change in campus culture. Our book focused on three “great untruths” that seemed to be widely believed by the students who were trying to shut down speech and prosecute dissent:

1. What doesn’t kill you makes you weaker 2. Always trust your feelings 3. Life is a battle between good people and evil people.

Each of these untruths was the exact opposite of a chapter in my first book, The Happiness Hypothesis, which explored ten Great Truths passed down to us from ancient societies east and west. We published our book in 2018 with the title, once again, of The Coddling of the American Mind. Once again, Greg did not like the title. He wanted the book to be called “Disempowered,” to capture the way that students who embrace the three great untruths lose their sense of agency. He wanted to capture reverse CBT.

The Discovery of the Gender-by-Politics Interaction

In September 2020, Zach Goldberg, who was then a graduate student at Georgia State University, discovered something interesting in a dataset made public by Pew Research. Pew surveyed about 12,000 people in March 2020, during the first month of the Covid shutdowns. The survey included this item: “Has a doctor or other healthcare provider EVER told you that you have a mental health condition?” Goldberg graphed the percentage of respondents who said “yes” to that item as a function of their self-placement on the liberal-conservative 5-point scale and found that white liberals were much more likely to say yes than white moderates and conservatives. (His analyses for non-white groups generally found small or inconsistent relationships with politics.)

I wrote to Goldberg and asked him to redo it for men and women separately, and for young vs. old separately. He did, and he found that the relationship to politics was much stronger for young (white) women. You can see Goldberg’s graph here, but I find it hard to interpret a three-way interaction using bar charts, so I downloaded the Pew dataset and created line graphs, which make it easier to interpret.

Here’s the same data, showing three main effects: gender (women higher), age (youngest groups higher), and politics (liberals higher). The graphs also show three two-way interactions (young women higher, liberal women higher, young liberals higher). And there’s an important three-way interaction: it is the young liberal women who are highest. They are so high that a majority of them said yes, they had been told that they have a mental health condition.

Figure 1. Data from Pew Research, American Trends Panel Wave 64. The survey was fielded March 19-24, 2020. Graphed by Jon Haidt.

In recent weeks—since the publication of the CDC’s report on the high and rising rates of depression and anxiety among teens—there has been a lot of attention to a different study that shows the gender-by-politics interaction: Gimbrone, Bates, Prins, & Keyes (2022), titled: “The politics of depression: Diverging trends in internalizing symptoms among US adolescents by political beliefs.” Gimbrone et al. examined trends in the Monitoring the Future dataset, which is the only major US survey of adolescents that asks high school students (seniors) to self-identify as liberal or conservative (using a 5-point scale). The survey asks four items about mood/depression. Gimbrone et al. found that prior to 2012 there were no sex differences and only a small difference between liberals and conservatives. But beginning in 2012, the liberal girls began to rise, and they rose the most. The other three groups followed suit, although none rose as much, in absolute terms, as did the liberal girls (who rose .73 points since 2010, on a 5-point scale where the standard deviation is .89).

Figure 2. Data from Monitoring the Future, graphed by Gimbrone et al. (2022). The scale runs from 1 (minimum) to 5 (maximum).

The authors of the study try to explain the fact that liberals rise first and most in terms of the terrible things that conservatives were doing during Obama’s second term, e.g.,

Liberal adolescents may have therefore experienced alienation within a growing conservative political climate such that their mental health suffered in comparison to that of their conservative peers whose hegemonic views were flourishing.

The progressive New York Times columnist Michelle Goldberg took up the question and wrote a superb essay making the argument that teen mental health is not and must not become a partisan issue. She dismissed Gimbrone et al.’s explanation as having a poor fit with their own data:

Barack Obama was re-elected in 2012. In 2013, the Supreme Court extended gay marriage rights. It was hard to draw a direct link between that period’s political events and teenage depression, which in 2012 started an increase that has continued, unabated, until today.

After examining the evidence, including the fact that the same trends happened at the same time in Britain, Canada, and Australia, Goldberg concluded that “Technology, not politics, was what changed in all these countries around 2012. That was the year that Facebook bought Instagram and the word “selfie” entered the popular lexicon.”

Journalist Matt Yglesias also took up the puzzle of why liberal girls became more depressed than others, and in a long and self-reflective Substack post, he described what he has learned about depression from his own struggles involving many kinds of treatment. Like Michelle Goldberg, he briefly considered the hypothesis that liberals are depressed because they’re the only ones who see that “we’re living in a late-stage capitalist hellscape during an ongoing deadly pandemic w record wealth inequality, 0 social safety net/job security, as climate change cooks the world,” to quote a tweet from the Washington Post tech columnist Taylor Lorenz. Yglesias agreed with Goldberg and other writers that the Lorenz explanation—reality makes Gen Z depressed—doesn’t fit the data, and, because of his knowledge of depression, he focused on the reverse path: depression makes reality look terrible. As he put it: “Mentally processing ambiguous events with a negative spin is just what depression is.”

Yglesias tells us what he has learned from years of therapy, which clearly involved CBT:

It’s important to reframe your emotional response as something that’s under your control: • Stop saying “so-and-so made me angry by doing X.” • Instead say “so-and-so did X, and I reacted by becoming angry.” And the question you then ask yourself is whether becoming angry made things better? Did it solve the problem?

Yglesias wrote that “part of helping people get out of their trap is teaching them not to catastrophize.” He then described an essay by progressive journalist Jill Filipovic that argued, in Yglesias’s words, that “progressive institutional leaders have specifically taught young progressives that catastrophizing is a good way to get what they want.”

Yglesias quoted a passage from Filipovic that expressed exactly the concern that Greg had expressed to me back in 2014:

I am increasingly convinced that there are tremendously negative long-term consequences, especially to young people, coming from this reliance on the language of harm and accusations that things one finds offensive are “deeply problematic” or even violent. Just about everything researchers understand about resilience and mental well-being suggests that people who feel like they are the chief architects of their own life — to mix metaphors, that they captain their own ship, not that they are simply being tossed around by an uncontrollable ocean — are vastly better off than people whose default position is victimization, hurt, and a sense that life simply happens to them and they have no control over their response.

I have italicized Filipovic’s text about the benefits of feeling like you captain your own ship because it points to a psychological construct with a long history of research and measurement: Locus of control. As first laid out by Julian Rotter in the 1950s, this is a malleable personality trait referring to the fact that some people have an internal locus of control—they feel as if they have the power to choose a course of action and make it happen, while other people have an external locus of control—they have little sense of agency and they believe that strong forces or agents outside of themselves will determine what happens to them. Sixty years of research show that people with an internal locus of control are happier and achieve more. People with an external locus of control are more passive and more likely to become depressed.

How a Phone-Based Childhood Breeds Passivity

There are at least two ways to explain why liberal girls became depressed faster than other groups at the exact time (around 2012) when teens traded in their flip phones for smartphones and the girls joined Instagram en masse. The first and simplest explanation is that liberal girls simply used social media more than any other group. Jean Twenge’s forthcoming book, Generations, is full of amazing graphs and insightful explanations of generational differences. In her chapter on Gen Z, she shows that liberal teen girls are by far the most likely to report that they spend five or more hours a day on social media (31% in recent years, compared to 22% for conservative girls, 18% for liberal boys, and just 13% for conservative boys). Being an ultra-heavy user means that you have less time available for everything else, including time “in real life” with your friends. Twenge shows in another graph that from the 1970s through the early 2000s, liberal girls spent more time with friends than conservative girls. But after 2010 their time with friends drops so fast that by 2016 they are spending less time with friends than are conservative girls. So part of the story may be that social media took over the lives of liberal girls more than any other group, and it is now clear that heavy use of social media damages mental health, especially during early puberty.

But I think there’s more going on here than the quantity of time on social media. Like Filipovic, Yglesias, Goldberg, and Lukianoff, I think there’s something about the messages liberal girls consume that is more damaging to mental health than those consumed by other groups.

The Monitoring the Future dataset happens to have within it an 8-item Locus of Control scale. With Twenge’s permission, I reprint one such graph from Generations showing responses to one of the items: “Every time I try to get ahead, something or somebody stops me.” This item is a good proxy for Filipovic’s hypothesis about the disempowering effects of progressive institutions. If you agree with that item, you have a more external locus of control. As you can see in Figure 3, from the 1970s until the mid-2000s, boys were a bit more likely to agree with that item, but then girls rose to match boys, and then both sexes rose continuously throughout the 2010s—the era when teen social life became far more heavily phone-based.

Figure 3. Percentage of boys and girls (high school seniors) who agree with (or are neutral about) the statement “Every time I try to get ahead, something or somebody stops me.” From Monitoring the Future, graphed by Jean Twenge in her forthcoming book Generations.

When the discussion of the gender-by-politics interaction broke out a few weeks ago, I thought back to Twenge’s graph and wondered what would happen if we broke up the sexes by politics. Would it give us the pattern in the Gimbrone et al. graphs, where the liberal girls rise first and most? Twenge sent me her data file (it’s a tricky one to assemble, across the many years), and Zach Rausch and I started looking for the interaction. We found some exciting hints, and I began writing this post on the assumption that we had a major discovery. For example, Figure 4 shows the item that Twenge analyzed. We see something like the Gimbrone et al. pattern in which it’s the liberal girls who depart from everyone else, in the unhealthy (external) direction, starting in the early 2000s.

Figure 4. Percentage of liberal and conservative high school senior boys (left panel) and girls (right panel) who agree with the statement “Every time I try to get ahead, something or somebody stops me.” From Monitoring the Future, graphed by Zach Rausch.

It sure looks like the liberal girls are getting more external while the conservative girls are, if anything, trending slightly more internal in the last decade, and the boys are just bouncing around randomly. But that was just for this one item. We also found a similar pattern for a second item, “People like me don’t have much of a chance at a successful life.” (You can see graphs of all 8 items here.)

We were excited to have found such clear evidence of the interaction, but when we plotted responses to the whole scale, we found only a hint of the predicted interaction, and only in the last few years, as you can see in Figure 5. After trying a few different graphing strategies, and after seeing if there was a good statistical justification for dropping any items, we reached the tentative conclusion that the big story about locus of control is not about liberal girls, it’s about Gen Z as a whole. Everyone—boys and girls, left and right—developed a more external locus of control gradually, beginning in the 1990s. I’ll come back to this finding in future posts as I explore the second strand of the After Babel Substack: the loss of “play-based childhood” which happened in the 1990s when American parents (and British, and Canadian) stopped letting their children out to play and explore, unsupervised. (See Frank Furedi’s important book Paranoid Parenting. I believe that the loss of free play and self-supervised risk-taking blocked the development of a healthy, normal, internal locus of control. That is the reason I teamed up with Lenore Skenazy, Peter Gray, and Daniel Shuchman to found LetGrow.org.)

Figure 5. Locus of Control has shifted slightly but steadily toward external since the 1990s. Scores are on a 5-point scale from 1 = most internal to 5 = most external.

We kept looking in the Monitoring the Future dataset and the Gimbrone et al. paper for other items that would allow us to test Filipovic’s hypothesis. We found an ideal second set of variables: The Monitoring the Future dataset has a set of items on “self derogation” which is closely related to disempowerment, as you can see from the four statements that comprise the scale:

I feel I do not have much to be proud of. Sometimes I think I am no good at all. I feel that I can't do anything right. I feel that my life is not very useful.

Gimbrone et al. had graphed the self-derogation scale, as you can see in their appendix (Figure A.4). But Zach and I re-graphed the original data so that we could show a larger range of years, from 1977 through 2021. As you can see in Figure 6, we find the gender-by-politics interaction. Once again, and as with nearly all of the mental health indicators I examined in a previous post, there’s no sign of trouble before 2010. But right around 2012 the line for liberal girls starts to rise. It rises first, and it rises most, with liberal boys not far behind (as in Gimbrone et al.).

Figure 6. Self-derogation scale, averaging four items from the Monitoring the Future study. Graphed by Zach Rausch. The scale runs from 1 (strongly disagree with each statement) to 5 (strongly agree).

In other words, we have support for Filipovic’s “captain their own ship” concern, and for Lukianoff’s disempowerment concern: Gen Z has become more external in its locus of control, and Gen Z liberals (of both sexes) have become more self-derogating. They are more likely to agree that they “can’t do anything right.” Furthermore, most of the young people in the progressive institutions that Filipovic mentioned are women, and that has become even more true since 2014 when, according to Gallup data, young women began to move to the left while young men did not move either way. As Gen Z women became more progressive and more involved in political activism in the 2010s, it seems to have changed them psychologically. It wasn’t just that their locus of control shifted toward external—that happened to all subsets of Gen Z. Rather, young liberals (including young men) seem to have taken into themselves the specific depressive cognitions and distorted ways of thinking that CBT is designed to expunge.

But where did they learn to think this way? And why did it start so suddenly around 2012 or 2013, as Greg observed, and as Figures 2 and 6 confirm?

Tumblr Was the Petri Dish for Disempowering Beliefs

I recently listened to a brilliant podcast series, The Witch Trials of J. K. Rowling, hosted by Megan Phelps-Roper, created within Bari Weiss’s Free Press. Phelps-Roper interviews Rowling about her difficult years developing the Harry Potter stories in the early 1990s, before the internet; her rollout of the books in the late 90s and early 2000s, during the early years of the internet; and her observations about the Harry Potter superfan communities that the internet fostered. These groups had streaks of cruelty and exclusion in them from the beginning, along with a great deal of love, joy, and community. But in the stunning third episode, Phelps-Roper and Rowling take us through the dizzying events of the early 2010s as the social media site Tumblr exploded in popularity (reaching its peak in early 2014), and also in viciousness. Tumblr was different from Facebook and other sites because it was not based on anyone’s social network; it brought together people from anywhere in the world who shared an interest, and often an obsession.

Phelps-Roper interviewed several experts who all pointed to Tumblr as the main petri dish in which nascent ideas of identity, fragility, language, harm, and victimhood evolved and intermixed. Angela Nagle (author of Kill All Normies) described the culture that emerged among young activists on Tumblr, especially around gender identity, in this way:

There was a culture that was encouraged on Tumblr, which was to be able to describe your unique non-normative self… And that’s to some extent a feature of modern society anyway. But it was taken to such an extreme that people began to describe this as the snowflake [referring to the idea that each snowflake is unique], the person who constructs a totally kind of boutique identity for themselves, and then guards that identity in a very, very sensitive way and reacts in an enraged way when anyone does not respect the uniqueness of their identity.

Nagle described how on the other side of the political spectrum, there was “the most insensitive culture imaginable, which was the culture of 4chan.” The communities involved in gender activism on Tumblr were mostly young progressive women while 4Chan was mostly used by right-leaning young men, so there was an increasingly gendered nature to the online conflict. The two communities supercharged each other with their mutual hatred, as often happens in a culture war. The young identity activists on Tumblr embraced their new notions of identity, fragility, and trauma all the more tightly, increasingly saying that words are a form of violence, while the young men on 4chan moved in the opposite direction: they brandished a rough and rude masculinity in which status was gained by using words more insensitively than the next guy. It was out of this reciprocal dynamic, the experts on the podcast suggest, that today’s cancel culture was born in the early 2010s. Then, in 2013, it escaped from Tumblr into the much larger Twitterverse. Once on Twitter, it went national and even global (at least within the English-speaking countries), producing the mess we all live with today.

I don’t want to tell that entire story here; please listen to the Witch Trials podcast for yourself. It is among the most enlightening things I’ve read or heard in all my years studying the American culture war (along with Jon Ronson’s podcast Things Fell Apart). I just want to note that this story fits perfectly with both the timing and the psychology of Greg’s reverse CBT hypothesis.

Implications and Policy Changes

In conclusion, I believe that Greg Lukianoff was exactly right in the diagnosis he shared with me in 2014. Many young people had suddenly—around 2013—embraced three great untruths:

They came to believe that they were fragile and would be harmed by books, speakers, and words, which they learned were forms of violence (Great Untruth #1).

They came to believe that their emotions—especially their anxieties—were reliable guides to reality (Great Untruth #2).

They came to see society as comprised of victims and oppressors—good people and bad people (Great Untruth #3).

Liberals embraced these beliefs more than conservatives. Young liberal women adopted them more than any other group due to their heavier use of social media and their participation in online communities that developed new disempowering ideas. These cognitive distortions then caused them to become more anxious and depressed than other groups. Just as Greg had feared, many universities and progressive institutions embraced these three untruths and implemented programs that performed reverse CBT on young people, in violation of their duty to care for them and educate them.

I welcome challenges to this conclusion from scholars, journalists, and subscribers, and I will address such challenges in future posts. I must also repeat that I don’t blame everything on smartphones and social media; the other strand of my story is the loss of play-based childhood, with its free play and self-governed risk-taking. But if this conclusion stands (along with my conclusions in previous posts), then I think there are two big policy changes that should be implemented as soon as possible:

1) Universities and other schools should stop performing reverse CBT on their students

As Greg and I showed in The Coddling of the American Mind, most of the programs put in place after the campus protests of 2015 are based on one or more of the three Great Untruths, and these programs have been imported into many K-12 schools. From mandatory diversity training to bias response teams and trigger warnings, there is little evidence that these programs do what they say they do, and there are some findings that they backfire. In any case, there are reasons, as I have shown, to worry that they teach children and adolescents to embrace harmful, depressogenic cognitive distortions.

One initiative that has become popular in the last few years is particularly suspect: efforts to tell college students to avoid common English words and phrases that are said to be “harmful.” Brandeis University took the lead in 2021 with its “oppressive language list.” Brandeis urged its students to stop saying that they would “take a stab at” something because it was unnecessarily violent. For the same reason, they urged that nobody ask for a “trigger warning” because, well, guns. Students should ask for “content warnings” instead, to keep themselves safe from violent words like “stab.” Many universities have followed suit, including Colorado State University, The University of British Columbia, The University of Washington, and Stanford, which eventually withdrew its “harmful language list” because of the adverse publicity. Stanford had urged students to avoid words like “American,” “Immigrant,” and “submit,” as in “submit your homework.” Why? because the word “submit” can “imply allowing others to have power over you.” The irony here is that it may be these very programs that are causing liberal students to feel disempowered, as if they are floating in a sea of harmful words and people when, in reality, they are living in some of the most welcoming and safe environments ever created.

2) The US Congress should raise the age of “internet adulthood” from 13 to 16 or 18

What do you think should be the minimum age at which children can sign a legally binding contract to give away their data and their rights, and expose themselves to harmful content, without the consent or knowledge of their parents? I asked that question as a Twitter poll, and you can see the results here:

Image: See my original tweet.

Of course, this poll of my own Twitter followers is far from a valid survey, and I phrased my question in a leading way, but my phrasing was an accurate statement of today’s status quo. I think that most people now understand that the age of 13, which was set back in 1998��when we didn’t know what the internet would become, is just too low, and it is not even enforced. When my kids started 6th grade in NYC public schools, they each told me that “everyone” was on Instagram.

We are now 11 years into the largest epidemic of adolescent mental illness ever recorded. I know so many families that have been thrown into fear and turmoil by a child’s suicide attempt. You probably do too, given that the recent CDC report tells us that one in ten adolescents now say they have made an attempt to kill themselves. It is hitting all political and demographic groups. The evidence is abundant that social media is a major cause of the epidemic, and perhaps the major cause. It's time we started treating social media and other apps designed for “engagement” (i.e., addiction) like alcohol, tobacco, and gambling, or, because they can harm society as well as their users, perhaps like automobiles and firearms. Adults should have wide latitude to make their own choices, but legislators and governors who care about mental health, women’s health, or children’s health need to step up.

It’s not enough to find more money for mental health services, although that is sorely needed. In addition, we must shut down the conveyer belt so that today’s toddlers will not suffer the same fate in twelve years. Congress should set a reasonable minimum age for minors to sign contracts and open accounts without explicit parental consent, and the age needs to be after teens have progressed most of the way through puberty. (The harm caused by social media seems to be greatest during puberty.) If Congress won’t do it then state legislatures should act. There are many ways to rapidly verify people’s ages online, and I’ll discuss age verification processes in a future post.

In conclusion: All of Gen Z got more anxious and depressed after 2012. But Lukianoff’s reverse CBT hypothesis is the best explanation I have found for Why the mental health of liberal girls sank first and fastest.

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mysticarts · 2 months ago

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S5 Kailani design! (+ relationships with others)

Ik that according to the official Gunntech au fic, that there's 5 seasons together, and season 5 is when everyone can go back into living their lives

soo let me explain Kailani's changes

Number one, Kailani is no longer hiding her other eye! She isn't as shy anymore thanks to charater development, also showing her freckled arms too proves it.

SHORT HAIR KAILANI!! a odd approach, but the main reason Kailani grew out her hair so long Is because gunntech forced her too sk her tentacle hair could work. So the first thing Kailani did was cut her hair short and felt everything off her shoulders

(There's also a concept I made that trying to escape Gunntech from brainwashing she cuts her hair, but not only is it painful but she still fails-)

Now, onto the relationships to others!

I think Kailani would be pretty good friends with Amaya, I feel like they met each other while taking ballet classes before they even meet each other at Gunntech. I feel like they're gal pals, going on self care days, stuff like that!

(Give me a episode of Amaya and her other girl friends getting into random shenanigans at a sleepover)

Now with Conner, I'm not sure if he'd like Kailani. I think Kailani's shy demeanor would annoy Conner. For two reasons, one is because in the fear she could get hurt, or he just dosent like Kailani. Kailani would be rather intimidated by Conner but hold great respect for him

Now, with Greg, we know how Kailani feels about him. Kailani has the hugest crush known to man on this man. But here's the thing, I don't know if Greg would feel the same. Like to me there's two ways. Make Greg like Kailani back and they're silly, or Greg breaks it down to Kailani gently yet they're still very close to each other.

With Romeo, I like to think as much as Kailani is terrified of him, she still feels like she can trust him. I imagine Romeo loved testing on Kailani considering his mother did the same back then with Isabella. I like to think they talked during those tests, and they bonded

Lastly, Mr. Gunn. I belive Mr. Gunn would appreciate how smart Kailani is, knowing she's emotional and taking advantage of it. I like to think Gunn put Kailani through the hardest and most painful tests cause he knew Kailani would figure out a way to pass it, or shut the thing down.

(Note, Gunntech au belongs to @elmushterri )

Feel free to ask questions!

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aevyk-ing · 1 year ago

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So I finally watched Over the Garden Wall. I had been wanting to watch it for a while and I'm glad I did. It's been a while since I last saw something like that: great storytelling, art and characters (maybe since Trollhunters?). However...

I made the mistake of watching it in batches of three (four on the last day). So my second day ended up with Wirt discovering that Beatrice had betrayed them.

Just like ATLA, I first found out about OTGW thanks to cosplay and, more especifically, the gallery of Arda Wigs:

(The Beatrice is Schemy Cosplay and the photoshoot was done by FullFrameShooter)

Of course, that being my first contact with OTGW, I supposed those two characters were a couple... add that to the fact that I'm a hopeless romantic and I have an awful lot of imagination.

So my writer side started making up how the story was going to continue. And I created this whole story in my head about how Wirt's secret love was actually Beatrice but he didn't even know her name.

Fast forward the next day and, instead of them continuing where they left with Beatrice, I have to sit through a Cloudy Silly Symphony with floating baby heads.

I was disappointed.

And then, Wirt starts blushing with this new girl.

And then, it turns out that there was yet another girl this whole time.

And then, Wirt and Beatrice say goodbye in a sad way.

So I went through a small heartbreak (my heart is feeling quite soft lately).

However, now that I can see the series as a whole... I still like them. "Greg in Slumberland" makes more sense once you can understand the themes and the story structure... even though it can be a little unnerving to know there aren't many episodes left and they use a whole one for that.

Do I still ship them? I don't know. I'm not sure. Thinking about it, maybe Wirt's relationship with both Lorna and Beatrice (romantically speaking) could be him growing up and not being as close to his brother as he was before. He is clearly shown feeling something towards Lorna and I'd like to think that he has feelings for Beatrice but is not sure of what kind, while Beatrice does like him (or ends up liking him after spending some time together). The series only showed us that he really likes Sara and she likes him back. I just didn't like Sara much because she wasn't as developed as Beatrice, but she seems sweet and caring and, even though Wirt talks a lot about her, romance was never the main focus of the series. And that's not a bad thing.

I still had to draw my idea, though.

#over the garden wall #rambling #infinite eyerolls #otgw wirt #otgw beatrice #writer problems #writer life

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phantomoftheorpheum · 5 months ago

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In my opinion, there were plot holes in the season that are really off-putting. But I also think the writers were just really unwise about their narrative time. With 2 episodes less than the first season, they did not balance their characters and storylines well.

I’m flabbergasted about the amount of time that was spent on the love triangle (I refuse to waste anymore brain power complaining about.. all of that). We could have had less of that in favor of:

- Giving Mouse a real storyline > making Ash more prominent, giving her grandmother an actual purpose or just cutting the character all together.

- Showing us the character development that they only tell us Greg has gone through.

- Follow through with Imogen’s mental health, hallucinations scares, and concerns for her child’s safety that were only relevant in the first half of the season.

- Make redemption house even more sinister and/or show characters like Kelly, Henry, or Greg noticing everyone around them becoming obsessed with Spooky Spaghetti. It would’ve been so easy to permanently write out Henry by making him one of Wes’/BR’s followers but of course they didn’t do that.

- Show at least a little bit of conflict between Mrs Langsberry and Tabby’s mom - opposing mothers defending the reputation of their children. Although I will say, this might have made it too obvious.

- Maybe even including more conflict by not waiting until the last episode to finally accuse each others partners.

Just some thoughts :P

I agree! I think the biggest issue with this season was the reduced runtime (I don't know if that was at all due to the writer's strike, but I hope they get an absolute minimum of 10 episodes if they do a third season), and the mismanagement of the time that they did have.

To address some of your points specifically- I also felt Mouse was super sidelined this season (yes, she is technically the person most intent on solving the mystery, but she's basically just around to info-dump at everyone else, not have any personal growth), and Ash was barely present. I was particularly disappointed by this, because I knew the actor's billing had been upgraded, so I thought we'd get noticeably more Ash.

Greg's redemption arc, if you can really call it that, since it seemed to skip the crucial "oh, he's questioning his ways and changing" part felt super rushed (as did Kelly's turn from 2x06-2x08). I think they did film more of it (since we know of some cut stuff), but since it didn't make it to the screen, it felt very strange that Faran suddenly liked Greg (I'm not saying they played it like she's in love with him or anything, but I feel like they skipped the middle bit between "he annoys the hell out of her and she really dislikes him" to "he's apologized and now they're hooking up,"). It was just too fast.

I definitely expected Imogen's mental health to ultimately play a bigger role than it did, considering how much time they spent on it.

It is hard to believe Mrs. Beasley, Pastor Malachi, Kelly, Greg, (and presumably Henry, since they never reveal him as an antagonist) didn't notice that there was an entire additional cult in their cult.

The scene where all the girls started bickering about their SOs was one of my favorites from the finale. It felt so realistic that they wouldn't all just be on board with these new people they don't know at all (and most of them didn't interact with the new love interests that weren't their own almost at all) and assume they're all great. It was refreshing to see the girls disagree and take a few jabs at each other, because while I love them supporting each other, those moments of coming together feel like they mean less when they're all just always on the same page.

As a writer and creator myself, I understand that it is much easier to criticize than it is to create, but one of the big advantages of collaboration is that theoretically you have a lot of people looking at your work with a critical and constructive eye and shaping the story into the best version of itself. This season felt like it really could have used some editing and refining (in the writing process, before you even get to the film editing) to streamline the storylines and not get too bogged down in areas that don't pay off.

To leave things on a high note- I really did have fun watching the show this season & trying to puzzle things out. I just feel there were some pretty glaring flaws, as well.

#ask #answered #anon #pll #pretty little liars #pll summer school #pretty little liars summer school #pll os #pll original sin #pll os summer school #pll spoilers #pretty little liars spoilers #pll summer school spoilers #pretty little liars summer school spoilers #pll os spoilers #pll original sin spoilers #pll os summer school spoilers #long post

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bamboobrat · 2 years ago

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succession s4 e1 recap: bridget random-fuck and the logan roy selfie fiasco

happy return of succession, everyone! and with that, my completely unhinged and ridiculously time consuming recaps. i was honestly not sure i wanted to go down this rabbit hole for another season, but given that it is our last, i think i'll have to.

my coping mechanism currently is complete and utter denial. let's see how long that lasts.

we start off the episode at the most depressing birthday party there ever was. did you think the season one birthday party was bad? at least there was baseball and logan nearly dying. in season four it's all greg calling himself an honorary kid and fingering a girl called bridget in the guest room.

something tells me logan is regretting teaming up with tom and greg right about now.

in california, the siblings are pitching investors on a new media venture. as per usual, there's a lot of bullshitting involved and i can't tell if kendall is high or not during all of it, but it's nice to see the sibs be a team - at least for now.

back in new york, kerry is not happy with greg bringing bridget random-fuck to logan's party. couldn't agree more.

as for shiv, she is totally fine with the idea of tom getting a drink with naomi pierce.

this is definitely the face of someone who is fine:

if this was any other show, i'd launch the theory that shiv is pregnant right here. but this is succession, so that seems unlikely.

also, maybe i'm just projecting, knowing that snooks is pregnant.

either way, we've got a fantastic shiv episode on our hands. can't wait for sarah to win all the awards.

connor is polling at one percent, but is getting squeezed. as willa says, it's all super greedy, since his opponents already have all the other percents.

frankly rude to do my guy con and the conheads dirty this way. what would an election be without an unhinged billionaire, i mean, i can't remember. it's the american way.

anyway, this is the look of someone who has just been reassured he will still be part of the business, even if he gets a divorce:

super reassured.

bridget random-fuck keeps causing problems. first, she posts about a pierce family member being at the birthday party on social media, then she asks logan for a selfie saying, and i kid you not, kar-ching.

all the unhinged gerri kellman lesbians immediately notice her in the background, judging.

bridget is like an unhinged version of greg in the first episode of season one. good for her.

meanwhile the birthday boy is having a great time without his kids. nothing screams birthday like contemplating your own mortality.

i've also seen some posts that are like "wow so much has happened in ONE year", indicating that this is logan's 81st birthday, but i'm not sure. they don't mention his age specifically, so i think we can just live with the ambiguity of whatever timeline we are comfortable with.

i personally think it's been a few years at least. if not, shiv and tom's marriage would have lasted what, six, seven months? rude.

after shiv's phone call with tom, the kids start realizing that logan is planning to buy PGM (again), and they immediately back out of the business venture they have been planning for the last few months.

and the award for most delusional goes to kendall for this comment:

roman is the only one that's not into buying up a dying media conglomerate because he is a girlboss. he's really the only one who wants to build up a new company from scratch and i'm so proud of him.

what a journey we roman fans have been on. truly.

logan takes his best pal, colin, on a date, and we realize, once again, that logan respects the people who work for him more than he ever will his children, because his children have been given everything all their lives.

logan does a whole "is there anything after death" shakespearean monologue and the odds that he will die by the end of this season are forever in our favor. this pleases me:)

connor wants to use his wedding as a political stunt, which makes me think the timeline of this season will be super short. will all the episodes take place during the ten days leading up to the election?

seems strange, given that they travel to norway, but it's an interesting thought.

greg has sex in the guest room and logan has CCTV. or at least tom wants greg to believe he does. anyway, i don't really want to get into it. poor bridget.

gerri, it seems, is still out in the cold after the dickpick ordeal. truly destabilizing to see our queen on shaky ground, but also good for her that she gives less of a fuck, leaving karl to look like this:

perfection. he is and will always be a true foodie.

anyway, logan doesn't take the news that his kids also want to buy pierce well.

on the west coast (in napa?), nan is truly weaponizing her liberal image and the whole "i'm just an old lady who doesn't understand capitalism"-vibe.

it's a sight to be seen.

roman, of course, sees right through her.

but it doesn't really matter, because the roy kids are too occupied with waging war on their father to notice they are getting played.

and to think i'm lowkey rooting for this idiots...

greg doesn't want to see what happens in guantanamo and leaves dealing with random-fuck to colin, the one true hero of this show.

gerri is straight up not having a good time.

we need to save her.

the kids offer up 10 bill for PGM. it feels extremely rushed and stupid and driven by revenge, but i'm glad to know roman knows how many zeros there are in a billion.

someone get him to new york asap so he can show gerri.

the kids win the bid and logan is not happy:

this is the look of a girl who needed a win. bless her heart.

because eventually, shiv goes back to new york and has to face tom, the traitor, disguisting boy from st. paul who wants her to talk....

... and if you know anything about being emotionally repressed, you'd know that is absolutely not an option.

so they lie there for a bit and hold hands and all of a sudden i realize that this stupid show has done it again. they made me care about a bunch of terrible, rich people. AGAIN.

i hate you, jesse armstrong, i really do.

during the last scene, we get one of the best lines of the episode:

logan is at home, alone, watching ATN and calling cyd to complain. i honestly can't tolerate cyd slander. that being said, i do hope we get a war of the networks between ATN and PGM moving forward.

if you stayed with me for this entire recap, congrats. you're just as demented as i am.

for next weeks episode, i need more gerri. i bet you are all surprised to hear that.

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afaims100arrowversefavs · 1 month ago

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My 250 Favorite Arrowverse Episodes: Part 8: 75-51

Taken from „Arrow“, „The Flash“, „Supergirl“, „Legends of Tomorrow“, „Constantine“, „Black Lightning“, „Batwoman“, „Stargirl“ and Season 1-3 of „Superman & Lois“:

In honor of Seaosn 4 of "Superman & Lois" being the end of the Arrrowverse, the end of DCTV like we knew it and the end of The CW like we knew it, a final time before the final season all Seasons ends of all the 250 best Arrowverse Episodes (according to me):

I did include "Stargirl" this time, since it has as much connection as "Superman & Lois" to the rest of the Arrowverse, but One Hit Shows like "Gotham Knights" and "Naomi" (anyone still remember this one?) are not on this list, neither are Arrowverse unrelated DC shows:

75. Zari, Not Zari (Legends of Tomorrow 5x8)

The One in which: Zari meets Zari and „Supernatural“ crosses over.

76, Written by: Morgan Faust, Tyron B. Carter, Directed by: Kevin Mock

74. Freakshow (Legends of Tomorrow 3x2)

The One in which: The Legends participate in the Greates Show.

35, Written by: Keto Shimizu, Grainne Godfree, Directed by: Kevin Tancharoen

73. The Magician (Arrow 3x4)

The One in which: Nyssa comes to town and Malcolm is under suspicion.

50, Written by: Wendy Mercile, Marc Guggenheim, Directed by: John Behring

72. Crisis on Infinite Earths 1-5

The Ones in which: The Multiverse is destroyed.

Part 1: Supergirl Episode 5.9/96, Written by: Robert Rovner, Marc Guggenheim, Derek Simon, Jay Faerber, Directed by: Jesse Warn, Part 2: Batwoman Episode 1.9/9, Written by: Din Whitehead, Holly Henderson, Directed by: Laura Belsey, Part 3: The Flash Episode 6.9/123, Written By: Lauren Certo, Sterling Gates, Eric Wallace, Directed By: David McWhirter, Part 4: Arrow: Episode 8.8/168, Written by: Marv Wolfman, Marc Guggenheim; Directed by: Glen Winter, Part 5: Legends of Tomorrow Episode 5.0/68, Written by: Keto Shimizu, Ubah Mohamed, Directed by: Gregory Smith

71. The Getaway (Legends of Tomorrow 4x10)

The One in which: A President gets kidnapped and a bugs makes to tell the truth.

61, Written by: Matthew Maala, Ubah Mohamed, Directed by: Viet Nguyen

70. Midvale (Supergirl 3x6)

The One in which: Kara and Alex team up to solve a murder.

48, Written by: Caitlin Parrish, Jess Kardos, Directed by: Rob Greenlea

69. For the Girl who has everything (Supergirl 1x13)

The One in which: Kara is back on Krypton, or so she thinks.

13, Written by: Andrew Kreisberg, Ted Sullivan, Derek Simon, Directed by: Dermott Downs

68. Aruba-Con (Legends of Tomorrow 3x1)

The One in which: Sara fights Caesar and Rip thinks the Legends are a chainsaw.

34, Written by: Phil Klemmer, Marx Guggenheim, Directed by: Rob Seidenglanz

67. Crisis on Earth X 1-4

The Ones in which: Barry’s and Iris‘ Wedding is crashed by Nazis.

Part 1: Supergirl 3.8/ 50, Written by: Robert Rovner, Jessica Queller, Andrew Kreisberg, Marc Guggenheim, Directed by: Larry Teng, Part 2: Arrow 6.8/ 123, Written by: Wendy Mercile, Ben Sokolowski, Marc Guggenheim, Andrew Kreisberg, Directed by: James Bamford, Part 3: The Flash4.8/77, Written by: Todd Helbing, Andrew Kreisberg, Marc Guggenheim, Directed by: Dermott Daniel Downs, Part 4: Legends of Tomorrow 3.8/21, Written by: Phil Klemmer, Keto Shimizu, Marc Guggenheim, Andrew Kreisberg, Directed by: Greogry Smith

66. Here I go again (Legends of Tomorrow 3x11)

The One in which: Zari is stuck in time-loop.

44, Written by: Ray Utarnachitt, Morgan Faust, Directed by: Ben Bray

65. Unthinkable (Arrow 2x23)

The One in which: Slade kidnaps Laurel and Thea shoots Malcolm.

46, Written by: Greg Berlanti, Marc Guggenheim, Andrew Kreisberg, Directed by: John Behring

64. Luthors (Supergirl 2x12)

The One in which: Lena looks guilty and Kara is jealous.

32, Written by: Robert Rovner, Cindy Lichtman, Directed by: Tawnia McKiernan

63. Checkmate (Arrow 5x16)

The One in which: Oliver learns who Prometheus really is.

108, Written by: Beth Schwartz, Sarah Tarkoff, Directed by: Ken Shane

62. The Virgin Gary (Legends of Tomorrow 4x1)

The One in which: Garys nipple gets eaten by an unicorn.

52, Written by: Phil Klemmer und Grainee Godfree, Directed by: Gregory Smith

61. The Man Under the Hood (Arrow 2x19)

The One in which: Slade in the Arrowcave.

42. Written by: Greg Berlanti, Geoff Johns, Andrew Kreisberg, Keto Shimizu, Directed by: Jesse Warn

60. Welcome to Earth (Supergirl 2x3)

The One in which: Mon-El wakes up.

23, Written by: Jessica Queller, Derek Simon, Directed by: Rachel Talalay

59. Witch Hunt (Legends of Tomorrow 4x2)

The One in which: The Fairy Godmother is not all nice.

53, Written by: Keto Shimizu und Matthew Maalaa, Directed by: Kevin Mock

58. Helen Hunt (Legends of Tomorrow 3x6)

The One in which: There a some changes in Firstorm and Helen of Troy mixes up Hollywood.

39, Written by: Keto Shimizu und Ubah Mohamed, Directed by: David Geddes

57. Deathstroke (Arrow 2x18)

The One in which: Slade kidnaps Thea and Isobel shows her true colours.

41, Written by: Marc Guggenheim, Drew Z. Greenberg, Directed by: Guy Bee

56. Present Tense (Arrow 8x4)

The One in which: Mia, William and Connor land in the present.

164, Written by: Oscar Balderrama, Jeane Wong, Directed by: Kristin Windell

55. Supergirl Lives (Supergirl 2x9)

The One in which: Kara goes to space to stop human trafficking.

29, Written by: Andrew Kreisberg, Eric Carrasco, Jess Kardos, Directed by: Kevin Smith

54. Phone Home (Legends of Tomorrow 3x4)

The One in which: Ray’s best friend is a Baby Dominator.

37, Written by: Matthew Maala, Directed By: Kevin Mock

53. Heir to the Demon (Arrow 2x13)

The One in which: Nyssa wants to bring Sara home.

36, Written by: Jake Coburn, Directed by: Wendey Stanzler

52. Tagumo Attacks!!! (Legends of Tomorrow 4x5)

The One in which: A gigantic squid comes to live.

56, Written by: Keto Simizu, Ubah Mohamend, Directed by: Alexandra LaRoche

51. Honor Thy Fathers (Arrow 5x21)

The One in which: Ollie and Thea have to come to terms with Robert.

113, Written by: Marc Guggenheim, Directed by: Laura Belsey

#Arrowverse #Favorite Episodes #Arrow #The Flash #Supergirl #Legends of Tomorrow #Batwoman

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bramblesthatcat · 8 months ago

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i know im not a steven universe blog but youtube knows i used to be a mentally ill middle schooler so i got recommended a bunch of SU songs and now i've binged the show again + movie + future and idk here r some of my SU opinions/hc bc fuck it why not.

opinions/thoughts

i totally think the Diamonds were redeemed way too quickly, and rewatching season 5 made me realize how god awful the pacing of that season was. they really needed a season 6 or like, split 5 in half idfk

obviously theres a difference between redemption and forgiveness, but I really wish that SU:F focused on that more bc it would've been a great internal conflict for steven but we only get like an 11 minute episode based on it (and yeah u could say that steven having mommy issues in Future is basically that but imo mommy issues r different than diamond issues)

pearl has the patience of a saint bc if my magical girl literal goddess of a gf/situationship left me for the 90's equivalent of a soundcloud rapper id never stop raging (yes this is partially a copypasta of that one tweet but they hit the nail on the head fr)

rewatching the series i love pearl so much i really see my younger self in her, especially w/ how autistic coded she is in regards to her feelings/emotions

i love seeing the different classic manga/anime artist styles reflected in each of the diamonds, like pinks design is so sailor moon vibes

steven shouldve flipped his shit before Future like, at least 6 times

headcannons/silly lil ideas

i like to think after SU:F and he's had time to heal, steven tries to connect with the diamonds and not run from/suppress that part of his family, like he's not gonna be 100% w/ them but he tries to at least accept it

steven also connects with greg's side of the family! idk I like to imagine he spends a lot of holidays with them to catch up on all the ones he missed

steven spends his summers in beach city and every other part of the year he dedicates to travel (idk he never seemed the type to settle down anywhere for long, and i fw the wandering nomad type)

steven grows his hair out as he gets older, like young-greg length (long haired men > literally any other hairstyle), despite the length it stays curly

once steven begins to accept/cope w/ being part diamond, he lets his hair go pink (either by dyeing it or magic, take ur pick) with the mentality of "im reclaiming this color from my mommy issues, also i look cool af" (this hc is mainly based off of how I like steven's pink hair in Future. style was first, lore was second lol)

post-Future steven is 1000% more willing to throw hands and lose his shit but in like a coping way bc he knows if he keeps it pent up it'll be 10x worse

steven definitely starts one of those van life style tiktok accounts and has a bunch of cats as his van pets

#steven universe #steven universe future #steven universe headcanon #my two cents on the show + my hc #pink diamond #blue diamond #yellow diamond #white diamond #pearl steven universe #my middle school hyperfixation has come back to haunt me

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trobedgirldads · 8 months ago

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Hey, I'm working on my Cooliver fic. Do you have a list of episodes that are best to rewatch to get their personalities and dynamics?

okay first of all i’m honored that you thought to ask me. second of all, i’m sorry i took forever to reply but i realized i didn’t have a list so i put one together lol

the otto motto (s1 e18) is the first time the idea of oliver being gay is mentioned

the walk (s1 e 20) is sooo important for cooper. first time we see his real personality instead of just his cool kid facade. also iirc this is the first appearance of “move on to your next point”

boo-who? (s2 e5) is pretty good for early oliver. it’s got his sass, some insecurities, a touch of scheming and ofc his iconic scream. cooper’s not in it tho.

blondetourage (s2 e11) is so iconic for them. the sneakers, the phone scheme. “i’m already riding bitch on your vespa.”

all coupled up (s2 e17) is their first big fight, so if you’re writing a fight/argument this is a good one. also some good cooper & katie moments.

it’s hard to say goodbye (s2 e19) is another one without cooper, but if you’re writing sad oliver this is such a good reference; he’s really well written and acted in this episode. the cgi tears take me out tho 😭😭

here we go again (s3 e2) has them work through conflicts and like resolve a fight without intervention from katie/greg. i love them <3. absolutely banger episode for each of them individually, and them as a duo.

enemies: an otto story (s3 e4) has a good oliver scheme, and he gets cooper in on it. cooper talking about tagging along to boarding school with him makes me feel things.

trust me (s3 e5) is the absolutely iconic scooby-doo halloween costumes/making out practice episode that every cooliver writer has written about. i think it’s the first time cooper is seriously brought into the whole “oliver might be gay” bit, but i might be wrong about that (i know cooper’s mentioned the first time it’s ever brought up, but i think this is the first time he really seems like a piece of the puzzle)

body image (s3 e6) again, no cooper, but very good for insecure oliver

mo’ money, mo’ problems (s3 e13) is also so iconic in my brain. idk how genuinely important it is to either of their development, but it means a lot to me. i can’t remember who it was, but someone on here posted a really good analysis of cooper in this episode and how he’s lying to try to get oliver to not go to the party, which could be useful depending what you’re writing. also this is the first time cooper calls katie and greg mom and dad :(

insta-friends (s3 e16) is another big fight for them, and also some serious cooper daddy/mommy issues. this one isn’t super helpful for individual oliver, but it’s great for individual cooper and their dynamic when they’re mad at each other

field trippin’ (s3 e20) is a much sillier, fluffier episode than a lot of what i have on this list. silly lil scheme gone wrong. cooper’s really only in the first like half of this one tho

a mom’s parade (s3 e22) ok so hot take i don’t really like this episode that much… you can do you is very queer coded tho so it’s going on the list lol

girls’ night out (s4 e6) is just so awesome. oliver’s really sweet towards the end, and it’s bcuz of cooper. cooliver/triplor double date mention!!! tiny touch of cooper angst. greg implying that cooper holds a similar role in the family to trip. just all of it is so perfectly cooliver. this is one of their best episodes imo

hip to be square (s4 e9) is the i love you episode!!!!!!!!!!!! them fighting and then saying they love each other!!!!!!!!!!! so interesting for their dynamic!!!

a very english scandal (s4 e14) is the one where the whole school thinks oliver is gay. the one time cooper denies being oliver’s boyfriend. overall very gay episode.

all is fair in love and war reenactment (s4 e17) is a good one for them supporting each other, but not enabling each other’s shitty behavior. really good for their dynamic, and cooper’s got some good layers in this episode

senior prank (s4 e18) ohhhhh they’re such big brothers in this one i love it so much. if you wanna write them as parents this might be a decent reference. also, not cooliver related but franklin is just so iconic in this.

vacation! (s4 e19) i’ve said it before and ill say it again: this episode feels more like a cooliver fic than an actual episode. so good for both of them as individuals, their dynamic as a couple, and how cooper fits into the otto family as a whole.

prom (s4 e20) is another one that i think is good for oliver as an individual and their relationship as a pair. also big brother cooper crumbs!! (they’re very small but they’re there and they’re important to me 😌)

graduation (s5 e1) is ofc so good if you’re writing some angst. seeing how they deal with issues involving them that seem out of their control. also more cooper fitting into the family as a whole <3

psych (s5 e2) is really good for later-seasons oliver and his need for validation. also supportive bf cooper :)

coupling (s5 e3) is the episode i show ppl if i want to get them into the show bcuz it gives such a good overview of all of the characters and their relationships with each other. more cooliver fighting if you need references for that. the couple coding in this episode is so intense.

kids these days (s5 e5) is sooooo good for their dynamic bcuz it really shows how they support each other without enabling each other. i love cooper so much in this episode. “our family” <3

mother’s little helper (s5 e6) is pretty good. shows off that no matter how much they’ve grown, they’re still just dumb teenage boys.

encourage, discourage (s5 e8) is soooo good for cooper fitting into the family as a whole.

the heist (s5 e9) chef cooper origin!!!!! oliver being a supportive bf!!! i love them!!!

getting frank with the ottos (s5 e10) is a big turning point in their relationship. once again, supportive bf oliver!! they’re so cute.

the election (s5 e13) i feel like their dynamic is a little bit weird in this episode (oliver’s like weirdly chill abt once again being confronted w the idea of cooper moving, but ig it’s bcuz he has his own stuff going on) but it’s so good for sad cooper/daddy issues cooper. this is definitely a huge one for cooper angst references

okok so this is a really big list. obvs i don’t know what the plot of your fic is or when it’s set, so some of these might be much more helpful than others depending what you’re writing. these are just my suggestions of the ones that stand out as important for them as individuals and as a duo. hope this is helpful!!!! i’m excited to read your fic if/when you post it :)

#american housewife #cooliver #oliver otto #cooper bradford #character analysis #ship analysis #thanks for the ask!#hope this helps!!#:)

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threewaysdivided · 1 year ago

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for the ask game: 💥🤔📚

if we can only do one, your pick :)

(Fanfic writer ask game)

💥 What is one canon thing that you wish you could change?

I've talked about some other changes in a previous ask, but I think Danny Phantom could have been improved by either re-writing the episode Memory Blank or at the very least, cutting a couple of the jokes. The base-premise is potentially interesting but it was definitely one of the ones where the show did characters dirty for the sake of jokes.

If I had to leave it mostly as-is, I would at least want to ditch the two random insert jokes where Danny "remembers" using his powers to peep in the girl's locker room. Not only is the base joke a gross, sexist "boys will be boys" gag, it also just feels really jarring and almost out of character for Danny in particular. That's not to say that Danny isn't canonically chauvinistic in other ways at times, but this one doesn't jive with how he reacts to similar situations (and behaviors from Tucker) in other, more character-centric episodes. The abrupt musical punctuation feels more like a sudden insert of Fairly Odd Parents humour and I would say it's probably only there because this kind of "adorkable misogynist" punchline is a common staple in both Butch Hartman and Steve Marmel's comedy styles.

Ideally though, since the main purpose of the episode is to give Danny his marketable DP insignia, I would rather do a full re-write around all three trio members actively trying to design a logo for Phantom. Rather than doing Danny and Tucker dirty by making them into boring butt-monkeys who live empty lives without Sam (and doing Sam dirty by making her seem like a weird stalker who changes Danny's suit without his knowledge or consent) we could have had an episode that let the icon have actual symbolic meaning for the whole of "Team Phantom". It's sad that one if the most iconic symbols of the show ends up being tacked onto a character assassinating goof-story when there were so many ways it could have been great.

🤔 Would you ever want to write something canon if you got the opportunity?

Going to go with a soft no on this one.

For one thing, I believe the best stories happen when someone has a specific story to tell, and at the moment my Deathly Weapons fanfic is the main story I feel the need to make exist. As a mystery nerd, I guess I could maybe do a decent detective story involving Batman or Gotham, but on the other hand I don't think it would be the kind of story Modern DC wants to sell.

From a practical point of view, I also think the things and stories I find the most fascinating within the Danny Phantom fandom would probably be too tonally serious to "fit with the brand" of official canon material. (Although it has been awesome to see some of the Phandom olds getting ascended to the level of official canon creators with the AGiT comics!)

As for Young Justice Animated I think I'm one of several fans who wouldn't mind being tagged-in (or at least a fly on the wall) if DC/Warner Bros ever decided to give it the Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood treatment, kick Greg Weisman's Whedon-worshipping incel ass out the door and let some of the prominent staff who were dropped after Season 1 have a do-over to continue the story they were actually setting up. I think there was a lot of potential in that initial cast, and there were some really cool character-centric standalone episodes that could have come from things like digging into Artemis and Jade having a diegetic connection to Alice In Wonderland while living in the same city as Jervis "Mad Hatter" Tech. But as it stands, I found Weisman's multi-season vandalisation of his colleagues' work to be so egregious that I ended up blocking both the main series tag and his name for the sake of my blood pressure. Look, even when he's not writing like the kind of man who probably fantasises about impregnating his colleague's daughter, the Nostalgia-Critic-level incompetence at basic narrative coherence is just exhausting.

📚 Is there a fanfic or fanfic writer you recommend?

Many!

For today's tasting, I would like to recommend Developmental Milestones and the broader Cor Et Cerebrum series by @audreycritter. Actually, let's just make that a general rec' for all Audreycritter's DC stuff.

I really like their interpretations of the Batfam and Superfam. They do such a good job of capturing the humanity of these characters in their non-cape moments, and I love their approach to dialogue. I think it speaks volumes to the strength of their character-writing that, despite not being a reader who generally goes in for Original Characters, I have become deeply obsessed with their on-call OC Batdoctor Kiran "Dev" Devabhaktuni. He is indeed the light of my life. Developmental Milestones is Dev's focus story but plenty of others put the focus on the canon DC roster if you prefer.

Go enjoy seeing Bruce get yelled at by a deeply affronted, potty-mouthed British Doctor with a heart of gold, though he'll stringently deny it.

Thanks for playing!

#fanfic writer ask game #myth-blossom's ask game #anonymous #Danny Phantom #Young Justice Animated #Cor et Cerebrum #fanwriter rec #fanfic rec #3WD Answers

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oonajaeadira · 1 year ago

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✨ Pedro Pascal IMDb Checklist ✨

@wannab-urs, this is such a fun game!!!!!! Thank you for creating it and tagging me!

Put a ❤️ if you’ve seen the actual show/movie (if it’s a show it can just be the episodes he’s in)

Put a 💜 if you’ve seen all the scenes Pedro is in but haven’t actually watched it

Tag some Pedro stans <3

The Last of Us - Joel Miller ❤️

Strange Way of Life - Silva ❤️

Housebroken - Claude 💜

The Mandalorian - Din Djarin ❤️

The Bubble - Dieter Bravo ❤️

House Comes With a Bird - Nico ❤️

The Unbearable Weight of Massive Talent - Javi Gutierrez ❤️

The Book of Boba Fett - Din Djarin ❤️

Calls - Pedro Across The Street ❤️

We Can Be Heroes - Marcus Moreno ❤️

Wonder Woman 1984 - Maxwell Lord ❤️

Home Movie: The Princess Bride - Inigo Montoya ❤️

Community: Webisodes - Mr. Stone

Triple Frontier - Frankie Morales ❤️

If Beale Street Could Talk - Pietro Alvarez 💜

The Equalizer - Dave York ❤️

Prospect - Ezra ❤️

Kingsman: The Golden Circle - Jack “Whiskey” Daniels ❤️

Narcos - Javier Peña ❤️

The Great Wall - Pero Tovar ❤️

Exposed - Oscar Castro Vargas

Sweets - Twin Peter 💜

Sia: Fire Meet Gasoline ❤️

Bloodsucking Bastards - Max Phillips ❤️

The Mentalist - Marcus Pike 💜

Graceland - Agent Juan Badillo

Game of Thrones - Oberyn Martell ❤️

The Sixth Gun - Special Agent Ortega

Homeland - David Portillo

Red Widow - Jay Castillo

Nikita - Liam

CSI: Crime Scene Investigation - Kyle Hartley

Body of Proof - Zack Goffman

Wonder Woman - Ed Indelicato

Charlie's Angels - Frederick Mercer

Sweet Little Lies - Paulino 💜

Law & Order: Special Victims Unit - Special Agent Greer

Burn Notice: The Fall of Sam Axe - Comandante Veracruz ❤️

Brothers & Sisters - Zach Wellison

The Adjustment Bureau - Maitre D' Paul De Santo

Lights Out - Omar Assarian

The Good Wife - Nathan Landry

Nurse Jackie - Steve 💜

Law & Order: Criminal Intent - Kip Green/Reggie Luckman

Iris - Billy ❤️

I Am That Girl - Noah

Law & Order - Tito Cabassa

Without a Trace - Kyle Wilson

Sisters - Steve

Earth vs. the Spider - Goth Guy

NYPD Blue - Shane 'Dio' Morrissey 💜

Touched by an Angel - Ricky Hauk

Buffy the Vampire Slayer - Eddie ❤️

Undressed - Greg

Good vs Evil - Gregor New

Window Shopping - David

Burning Bridges - Alex

I got 30 out of 57…. (and I would have had more if documentaries and Netflix specials were counted....)

np tags: @grogusmum @insomniamamma @ezrasbirdie @blueeyesatnight @something-tofightfor @stealyourblorbos @leslie-lyman

+ open to anyone who wants to join!

#tag games

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bomikalover · 9 months ago

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What’s your favorite American Housewife episode? I can’t pick a favorite but I have a few fav episodes from every season.

I’ll do one a season because I love so many. And they might be less my favorite but more memorable to me (if you get what I’m saying)

⚠️SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVENT SEEN AMERICAN HOUSEWIFE!!⚠️

Season 1, is Episode 12 “Surprise!” Because it was Oliver’s bday which is already special but it was also the first episode where we actually see and meet cooper for the first time. Baby Cooliver really makes my heart warm and seeing Oliver and his dad share a moment was super sweet.

Season 2, is between episodes 17 “All Coupled Up” and episode 19 “It’s Hard To Say Goodbye.” Ep 17 showed more cooliver but also showed Gina (Oliver’s gf at the time) and how Gina was making Oliver someone he isn’t. It gave us some lovely Cooper and Katie moments and it was when Anna-Kat made it “official” with Franklin. Plus we got some Trip and Taylor too so all together a jam packed episode. Ep 19 was when Spencer passed on and we got to see a more emotional Oliver and a more caring Katie. Katie and Oliver’s relationship is very complex as they have the most distant relationship out of all the Otto kids imo and this really showcased how much she truly cares about Oliver and his emotions.

Season 3, is also between 2 episodes. Ep 13 “Mo Money, Mo Problems” and Ep 23 “A Mom’s Parade.” Ep 13, was a fav for me since we saw Katie and Greg get some alone time but we also saw Cooliver and got some Taylor being a great big sis to Oliver so all in all a good episode. Ep 23 is good because I love music and musicals lol. I literally have all the songs on my Spotify playlist, “You Can Do You” is a certified bop. Katie’s voice was amazing and i honestly wished for a 2 hour musical special after that 😂

Season 4, is between 4 episodes (I literally can’t pick one 😭) Ep 6 “ Girls night out”, Ep 14 “A very English scandal”, Episode 19 “Vacation!”, and Episode 20 “Prom.” I liked ep 6 since we saw Cooper and Trip basically become permanent members of the family and the adorable scene of them recreating the picture will also be in the back of my mind. Ep 14 was when Oliver “came out” lol and we got see to see Oliver be who he truly wants to be (he just doesn’t realize it yet) and I loved how everyone thought it made sense and that Cooper was his boyfriend 😂. Plus the love story between Greg and Viv made my heart happy. Ep 19 was a breath of fresh air as it was actually shot outside and in LA which was nice. We got a Cooliver side storyline which ended in them agreeing that with Oliver’s family and Cooper’s money that they work perfectly together which made me so happy. Anna-Kat and Taylor had some bonding going on and I love to see it. Episode 20 was great, I’ll always love a prom/dance episode. I was sad that Oliver went to prom with the teen help line girl and not Cooper (especially since the teen help line girl ignores him next season 🙄.) but the little dance scene at the end was cut and that was the last episode with OG Anna-Kat 😭.

Season 5, is Ep 1 “Graduation”, Ep 3 “Coupling”, and Ep 4 “Homeschool Sweet Homeschool.” Ep 1 was great as we say Taylor graduated but we also saw that Cooper was moving away. Oliver was so sad and lost that entire episode at the thought of loosing his Cooper. But it made me so happy that Oliver had a heart to heart with Katie and in the end Cooper moved in with Oliver and the family. Ep 3, was so full of Cooper and Oliver acting like an old married couple and I loved it. Katie and Greg even joked about making them a sex basket like they gave Trip and Taylor. (Side note: I love how supportive Greg and Katie are of Oliver’s sexuality. LGBTQ+ or not, they love their son and just want him happy 🫶🏾.) Ep 4, once again full of Cooliver moving in together and having those married couple vibes.

Basically anything with Cooliver I loved which was a lot of episodes lol. Trip and Anna-Kat’s relationship was so precious to me as he was a second older brother to her and it warmed my heart. But anyway tysmmmm for asking me stuff and don’t be shy to ask more. 🫶🏾🫶🏾🫶🏾

#american housewife #cooliver #cooper x oliver #oliver otto #cooper bradford #katie otto #greg otto #taylor otto #anna kat otto

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panelshowsource · 8 months ago

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i agree that the podcast really is so interesting — and imo it's a lot of plain gossip and tv criticism masked as "professional insight", which i live for lmao — but there are times she is really too much... she often mocks or eye-rolls things in a way that, again, doesn't feel constructive and comes off as very rude. mean girl energy. it also bothers me how she will talk at richard instead of engaging in a back and forth, and sometimes that turns into an episode in which she speaks 80% of the time. then again, as content cycles throughout the year, sometimes what's on/hot atm is just more in her wheelhouse than his, so we just have to wait for new taskmaster, new bbc comedies, new doctor who, whatever interests him, and then hopefully he'll have even more opportunities to shine... i do cherish when he gets a chance to speak lmao

but fr take a shot every time she says "a friend of mine who works at _______ told me blah blah"

i'll work on tracking that down!! it would be fun to watch more of them 😋

aren't they too much? i was just thinking how amazing would it be if they were a pair on pointless celebs ...........

you know how once you notice an actor then suddenly you start to see them everywhere? (especially on uk tv which is not as big a pool as you'd think it would be...) that was me and charlotte ritchie! it was like wow this girl is everywhere!

anyways, i'm not sure what her aims are atm... she's done quite a bit of comedy but am i the only one who thinks she would body a crime series? or something like broadchurch?

glad you got a chance to catch my response and watch some fun things! i was thinking a little more about what else to recommend, and i think if you enjoy the quirky nature of repertoire then you should check out huge davies, and if you enjoy the storytelling format like greg davies typically does then you should try out dara ó briain and russell howard (maybe the 2021 lubricant special to start) :) enjoy!!

hahaha this is funny... it's a good question 😅 there are a few reasons... he's good bantz! he doesn't take himself too seriously, laughs at himself, can be teased, isn't mean spirited. people really appreciate that. plus, he represents a lot of people who aren't otherwise on tv — not primetime bbc, at least. there starts to be an issue when he just...doesn't try, doesn't contribute. he's fallen asleep on like three different shows? didn't he just...not show up to the second-half of his bakeoff special? often he's got nothing to say? mo really carried the convos on his talk show, his teammates carried him on bfq, and so on. he just doesn't seem to have the interest or perhaps the stamina (orrr perhaps the respect) for long records 😅

anyways, he was being pushed for a little while, but that appears to have stopped. he's hasn't been around too much lately 🤔 (tho ngl idk what he's up to!)

yesss this is a great video and i'll link it here in case anyone wants to check it out! it reminded me that i really need to seek out his celeb hunted episodes hahaha

when the news came out he would be playing an 'egon spengler type' i was like yep lmao

he and ed mention quite often how many auditions they go to, especially james, for big movies like wonka and ghostbusters — no surprise to me imo! especially since it seems he's focused on films over tv 🤔

can't say i saw ghostbusters tho i'm sorry 😭

WELLLL now that it's out how have you been enjoying it? 😊🥰 where is your review, anon !!

susie dent gifs are high on my list, working on those for this week for sure!!! it's just...how to choose...she's just too pretty....

but i love ALL of your suggestions, duly noted 😍

—

PANEL SHOW WATCH LINKS / NON-PANEL SHOW WATCH LINKS FAQ / TAGS / ASK

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wifelinkmtg · 2 years ago

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Who’s Hot in New Capenna

Okay! Streets of New Capenna was set in a glitzy 1920s Fritz Lang-style metropolis ruled by a bunch of different criminal syndicates. Its major contribution to Magic is that it introduced jazz to the multiverse, and was otherwise a substandard draft set anchored to, presumably, a story? I’m almost positive there was a story, but I’ve never spoken to anyone who knows what it was. They juice angels to make drugs? Vivien shows up, because where is Ms. Park Ranger more at home than Industrialized Urban Environments? Urabrask is also here?

Anyway the frequent badness of Magic story is tempered by the fact that we mostly encounter it in isolated pieces of cardboard with killer fucking art and are free to derive better ideas about story and characters and setting than you would get if you actually read the story, most of the time. It’s also tempered by the fact that girls!

AND HOW! WE’VE GOT GIRLS IN ALL YOUR FAVORITE JAZZ AGE LOOKS! GIRLS IN SUSPENDERS? YOU BET! WAISTCOATS? DIME A DOZEN, PAL! YOU WANT KISS CURLS? WE COULDN’T FIT MORE POMADE IN THESE COIFS IF WE TRIED! HOW ABOUT ARM MUSCULATURE? BUDDY, WHY DON’T YOU JUST TAKE A PEEK FOR YOURSELF?

Night Clubber (art by Joshua Raphael)

Ask me how I know Moustache here is from Queens. Go on, ask me.

Cause if he was from Brooklyn, he could dodge ‘er!

But seriously, folks: arms like fuckin tree trunks here. That is delectable. And just because you’re heading out for a night of swinging baseball bats at the heads of tourists with expensive wristwatches doesn’t mean you don’t dress to the nines, or at least the eights! Or like realistically maybe just the sevens - the pinstripe trousers are great, the lip color’s great, and I adore the extreme sleevelessness, but it’s clear her clothes have seen better days - which is maybe why she’s out here with the bat.

Also, baseball is canon in the MtG multiverse now! That’s fun. Maybe the Gatewatch could put together a company team, if any of them are left at the end of the current storyline. “Take Me Out to the Holodeck” but it’s our favorite surviving planeswalkers against, like, Freyalise’s supremacist elves. Chandra struggling to swing a bat without immolating it. Kaya getting into an argument with the umpire about whether ghosting through an opposing baseman holding the ball counts as being tagged out. Garruk-as-Worf yelling DEATH TO THE OPPOSITION. This bit was about a specific episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine; I really appreciate you reading my horny Magic blog, and I am not going to be respectful of your time.

Dapper Shieldmate (art by Greg Opalinski)

Okay, on a strict practicality level, having a plate mail waistcoat that leaves your neck and sternum covered only by a starched collar and a tie is basically just a chainmail bikini for lesbians. I can imagine Beige Sonja here thinking “well, I’ve got pauldrons on my pinstripe suit, for safety, but I’m worried I don’t look like enough of a dyke, so I’m going to make sure to roll my sleeves up,” because that’s the sort of thought process that often guides my sartorial choices as well. I also love the “I don’t particularly care about my appearance” messy hair on top combined with the “I really actually desperately care” glossy waves on the side. She’s trying way too hard, and honestly, that’s hot.

Glamorous Outlaw (art by Maria Zolotukhina)

Okay, there’s trying too hard, and there’s “I rented a panther for a date” trying too hard.

Venom Connoisseur (art by Marta Nael)

This isn’t a subtle piece of card art, but sometimes it’s enough to get your tits most of the way out and slap a python on em. Convincing someone to shake a hand with at least two venomous snakes coiled around it probably requires a substantial distraction, so: this cleavage is actually tactical, did you know?

Psionic Snoop (art by Marcela Medeiros)

I’m not going to lead with “oh, you’re psychic? can you tell what i’m thinking?” because I’m sure she’s heard that a hundred times from a hundred different slimeballs, but also she definitely knows it was my first thought, which is pretty embarrassing. Actually it is probably a bad idea for me to try and sleep with any kind of telepath unless she’d be remarkably tolerant of the sort of anxious inner monologue where I can’t ask a pretty barista’s name without first getting sidetracked into a long thought process involving Martin Buber and the alienation of capitalism, culminating in not asking her name and coming back another day, by which point it turns out she’s moving to Colorado and I’ve missed my shot, and all I got out of the whole thing was pretty good music recommendations (Khruangbin, in point of fact.) Hm. What were we talking about?

Jetmir’s Fixer (art by John Thacker)

Rakish, flamboyant, good with explosives: the cat’s hot, sorry.

Caldaia Strongarm (art by Randy Vargas)

Ma’am. Your arms.

Jaxis, the Troublemaker (art by Zoltan Boros)

Look I’m just a simple, honest lesbian, you know? End of the day, I want what we all want: a ripped, sweaty woman in suspenders with the world’s most utterly contemptuous sneer, the kind of sneer that stomps all the way down your spine with cleats, the kind of sneer that’ll slam you against a wall, spit in your face, and leave you bruised for a month. Yes, it has been entirely too long since someone beat the hell out of me, thank you for asking!

NEXT TIME WE GO BACK TO DOMINARIA FOR SOME DISAPPOINTING ITERATIONS OF HOT CHARACTERS, AND AN INTERDIMENSIONAL DOMINATRIX SLIPS INTO SOMETHING A LITTLE MORE COMFORTABLE: A MULTI-STORY STRAP-ON.

We’re almost caught up, folks. New Phyrexia is very, very soon.

#magic the gathering #streets of new capenna

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gregoftom · 2 years ago

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ok thank GOD we survived another week CMON TOM GIRL THAT’S IT. okay well here’s my tg two cents since i’ve finished the episode.

so here’s the thing. i seen a post or two really crushing their rs down to bare bones basic cynicism it’s only about what they can do for each other businesswise and i gotta say, kids could you lighten up a little? tom wasn’t especially nice to greg this episode or anything, but i don’t think he was like. awful? or anything? he’s exhausted and stressed ofc he’s gonna snap, and ofc he’s not going to like greg being distracted and not paying full attention to him when they’re alone together and he specifically made sure no one else was there. he let greg go to the funeral first even though we Know he feels safer when greg goes in to things like this with him [re: logan’s wake] and ofc he’s gonna need greg going to bat for him to mencken making sure to repeatedly mention tom and putting what he’s learned into putting tom forward and while i get that it can suck not to see some sort of appreciation towards greg i mean, was it really that bad?

did he throw anything at him? did he call him any cruel names? did he bully him specifically beyond what he might say to other atn employees? did he do anything from his old ways except for order greg around?

no. and see, tom is probably very insecure at this point. what does he have to offer greg, except his love? and where has he been before where his love has been rejected? where it’s not been good enough? where it’s not been respected? so he’s gonna order greg around bc he wants to give a show of, see i’m still your superior and i can still take care of you i promise!! even though they both know full well that greg outranks him by now. if greg reaches a point in power and prosperity rivalling or even surpassing shiv then, oh boy here we go again! i’ve got nothing to offer you but my love and it won’t be good enough, just like last time.

tom has all these grandiose ideas of romantic runaways, leave this life behind and come with me but regardless of everything going on, for him personally it’s not as simple as that. he doesn’t see a worth to the other person unless he can give them protection or give them something in return. with shiv i think he figured that great sex, being servile to her and helping her rise to power to gain his own at the same time is what kept it going. and then after that falls apart he has his love. but the type of love he wants to give is not what shiv wants or responds to i believe. that’s not a slight on her it’s just. i don’t see them being able to work at least not without a lot of personal and marriage therapy and like. i don’t think either of them would go for that. he also has these very traditional ideas of a relationship i feel, and the way that he justifies his feelings towards greg is to make a joke out of it, go along with the whole disgusting brothers bit [which personally i think is Only referring to them being each other’s wingmen in scoring, which is interesting considering what shiv said about it and how annoyed she got about greg, bringing him up by name so i’m not exactly sure how much “scoring” was done, at least with women lmfao] add a splash of internalised homophobia, etc. and i think shiv, understandably, due to her repeated experiences of misogyny pushes back against that.

hear me out. it’s actually GOOD for tom to act the way he did towards greg in contrast to how he did to shiv! mattmac has said COUNTLESS times that tom is afraid of shiv. we’ve seen him with a black eye caused by her [before anybody starts i KNOW he flicked her ear and that was NOT cool, but let’s not forget this] and mm commented on how he changes his voice to a higher pitch around her, both in servitude and in being afraid. he’s on eggshells around her. the balcony fight was the first time we saw that not being the case. yeah i get that it’s disappointing to see him backtrack slightly with shiv, be kind to her and not to greg. to see him have to get permission from her to do things like sleep in contrast to with greg, where his basic needs are just met instead of begged for. but he’s NOT backtracking with greg! he’s NOT reverting to previous behaviours with him! and he’s being his honest true self with him!

yes okay he’s snapping at greg! he hung up on him! he’s ordering him around! but he’s insecure; of course he is, he probably thinks greg will walk! greg has gravitated to power repeatedly, why shouldn’t tom be afraid that his feelings for greg aren’t enough to keep him loyal to him, esp when those feelings have not been enough before? yes greg has proven himself a couple of times but cycles and fears are hard to break! we already have “you’ll do it with matsson and not with me?” paired with “i want YOU gregging for me!” like, what more do you need? tom wants to present as still in control and at point where he has the right to tell greg what to do because he wants to show he can make good on their deal, not knowing that greg actually cares about him personally too [which we know for a fact because he goes so mf hard for tom and has done ever since the deal in 3.09. it is not just about gain and i think we can see that’s a fact by now. what leverage does tom have that he could maintain?]

i’m not about to say that the business side of their relationship doesn’t exist at all. i’m not about to say that greg will not use tom, or tom will not use greg. i’m not about to say there’s no negative or manipulative parts of their relationship. but to reduce it to simply this, is just not true. there’s much, much more to it than that. i guess i get a little defensive on this part bc i hate a mlm pairing being lessened to just a joke, or not to be taken seriously, or well pack it up guys, because it didn’t mean anything and was Only a way for the both of them to get ahead and that’s all it ever was.

nah. it wasn’t just that, sorry. and i know the show will probably ditch them, i’m not gonna say succ will let them run off into the sunset. this ain’t my first rodeo. i’ve been in fandom for like 17 years, i know the game, i know how it works. i know tom/shiv is probably endgame in the long run. but i’m just saying, y’all gotta stop reducing it to something so minimal when clearly the dynamic between them captured not only shippers, but general audiences around the globe. i guess i don’t like when ppl contribute to letting the show give it a back seat and give in to it trying to really demean it to less than it actually was. bc we know and THEY know that it was deeper than that. honestly i have a feeling jesse might’ve been held back by hbo judging by the scripts, plus we know there was a lot of shit cut for time, but i digress.

i’ve been saying this for a while now, but if tom and greg are still in each other’s lives in some way by the end of the show, there’s always hope for tg. they don’t have to kiss or declare their love. it’s not as though it’s never been done with a het ship before, take x files mulder and scully for example. yes i know they were eventually “canon” to the point they were in a relationship, but not for years! years! and even then at one point they broke up but were still in each other’s lives with the chance to find each other again and reconcile, which they did!

tom and greg just have to be able to reach other in some capacity, for it to be a possibility. and we have creators in the community to explore how that would work.

#tomgreg #SORRY THIS IS SO FUCKING LONG #but i'm. como se dice....... a lil bit pressed!!!!!#the show is probably gonna have me eating my words but idc i'll take the l. i'll be satisfied as long as i get the base i wanted #now to get some lunch and then continue w my next tg art wheeeee

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